Fuzzy Wuzzy


When it comes to obnoxious in-your-face organizations, PETA is right up there with the American Family Association. True, PETA’s mission in noble, but its “Look at me! Look at me!” approach to marketing is borderline unbearable. But then they go and sign Battlestar Gallatica‘s Jamie Bamber to a Canadian black bear campaign, and all is almost forgiven.

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  • Larry

    For a second, I thought that was a Nair ad…

  • Nick

    His eyes are so hypnotic.
    Sexy lips and big arms.
    And the fuzz on his chest. Yes.
    Freakin’ delicious, from head to toe.
    Loooooove it.

  • Dubwise

    Love that show. Love him.

  • Timothy

    “PETA’s mission in noble”

    Ummm… nope, not so much.

    PETA’s mission seems to be to eliminate any human use of animals for food or clothing. And, much like the religious theocrats, PETA doesn’t much care whether your moral code agrees with theirs, they will gladly terrorize those who wear fur and demonize those who eat meat and seek to impose their own moral code on others.

    I guess if you’re a vegan who thinks that fur is murder and eating meat is canibalism then they are “noble”. But if you don’t worship at their altar of animals over humanity they seem more like a religious terrorist group.

  • Dawster

    @Timothy: plus… the idea of not eating meat/fish/etc. is going against millions of years of human evolution…

  • dvlaries

    If only two Morning Goods guys per week -hell, even ONE- were only this good :(

  • kelly

    @Dawster: So is gay liberation to hear them tell it. You only need to look at the facts to understand that an animal protein-based diet is the least healthy way of nourishing the human body.

  • Darth Paul

    I was thinking “Bear-Skin”…a bear who’s a skinhead, too. That’s way hotter than Peta, for sure.

  • Darth Paul

    @Timothy: I love that they preach all their BS but never address how unethical it is to wear stuff like PVC and similar synthetics(whose byproducts pollute the environments of the cute, noble, cuddly things they claim to support).

  • EdWoody

    Heart him so much.

  • vernonvanderbilt

    I’m all for treating animals ethically, but PETA…I’m sorry, but they’re extremist lunatics for the most part. Next thing you know they’ll ask us all to stop vacuuming to protect defenseless dust mites.

  • petted

    One of my professors at school told us PETA had a freezer where they put animals that they decided would be unable to live full happy lives. Granted this was also the professor who told us about feeding cats to some sort of vulture – you always felt a little uncomfortable in class but at the same time I think there may have been a betting pool running on what story would run next.

  • hardmannyc

    Maybe PETA has a “look at me” attitude because, you know, they believe in their cause. But it’s easier to be snarky. As for “evolution” justifying killing animals for eating and wearing them, it’s the same arguments the Nazis used for eugenics against the disabled and Jews. Slippery slope.

  • RDM

    Evolution is the history of a species, not a moral code.

    And PETA has its self-righteous head up its animal-protein-free intestines more often than not. I can think of several organizations (e.g., Humane Society) that do more to advnace animal welfare than PETA, but I think PETA is more interested in generating publicity for itself than protecting animals.

    Still, if they can get more hotties to pose naked for us, I support them.

  • Jaroslaw

    PETA does what it does in hopes (for at least one reason I would guess) of jarring people loose from their complacency,and ingrained thinking. Note there is not one positive comment about PETA or one defense of NOT eating animals. Now I’m not suggesting that I agree with everything PETA does either but think about this. Most Americans find eating pork to be just fine. Obviously Muslims do not. At one time in the 60’s we sent corn to Turkey for food as a humanitarian measure and they were very insulted because corn is only considered animal food. We are totally brainwashed because that is how WE grew up…

    John Robbins of Baskin & Robbins ice cream company (one of the sons) wrote a book called “Diet for a new America.” He talked about the incredibly cruelty of the factory farms and how animals actually have social structures and other things I won’t go into here. The bottom line is that animals are not mindless machines only to produce meat for humans.

    In the days before freezers & canning, yes eating meat was no doubt necessary to an extent. But it definitely is not now. Nor is it ecologically sensible. Do we take an acre of land, feed the grain to a cow for 60lbs of meat or do we plant it with vegetables and get 20-30,000 lbs of edible product?

  • me

    I think the point being made by some here is that instead of just saying this is what we think, please consider it as an option based upon this, this, and this, die-hard PETA peeops would love nothing more than the power to legislate the diet, etc… of others. That’s no different than legislating people’s private lives based upon the Bible or what have you. I’ve heard the arguments, pass the damn steak.

  • Jeff

    Watch Peta’s “Meet your Meat”.

    THEN let’s see you spout some pro-carnivore shit.

    We have MASHING TEETH. Healthy vegetarians are basically missing B12s, and that’s about it. If it was such an unhealthy way to live (and evolutionarily bs) why the crap are our bodies so suited for it?

    Remember, it’s Hunters AND Gatherers. I don’t care if you eat meat. But as a persecuted group, why the hell is it so fashionable to bash another group that’s standing up for what they believe in?

    Every single Peta-related post is a bash-fest.

    Roar. Vegetarian PMS-moment over.

  • Jaroslaw

    ME – the funny thing about many people (and I’m not saying you necessarily) who’ve heard all the arguments – when I want to show them HOW their meat is made and the actual video of the horrendous conditions, then no one wants to see or talk about it.

    We’re back to the brainwashing thing. We somehow think a meal is incomplete if there isn’t a HUGE hunk of meat on it. We don’t even have the honesty to call it what it is. Ground up cow shoulder muscle. or whatever.

    I would also suggest you go to one of those rescue farms – unless your heart is made of stone, I don’t see how you couldn’t be moved a little bit.

    One more thing- cruelty laws DO NOT apply to food animals. Most people are unaware of this.

    But even if you don’t care at all about animals, the meat industry rides on the backbones of a lot of cheap immigrant labor. Watch Fast Food Nation or read the book – many many immigrants are injured or killed in the meat industry – it has the highest turnover and injury rate of (almost?) any job in the USA.

  • Jaroslaw

    forgot – cheap, often illegal, immigrant labor who when injured goes back to the homeland without costing the company a dime even if their injury is the fault of the company….

  • hardmannyc

    Jaroslaw: You can’t talk to meat eaters. They’re the same ones who shower affection on certain lower mammals (dogs, cats, rabbits — sometimes — gerbils), while not giving a shit how horribly other ones are treated for their pleasure.

    Also, meat eaters are stinky and constipated.

  • Jaroslaw

    oooh HMNYC – hard, a man, NYC AND a Vegan? I’m in love, when can we meet? :) Thanks also…. :)

  • ptrfortune

    I would totally have bareback sex with him to hell with the animals!

  • Jeff

    So everyone complains about how the animals are treated. Eat ethical meat then, from local producers who treat their animals properly. If you have concerns about it then you can actually go visit the farm. I eat meat, but I know where it came from and how it was treated before it ended up on my plate.

  • ptrfortune

    I’d eat his meat a la Jeff Dahmer

  • vernonvanderbilt

    @Jeff: “We have MASHING TEETH.”

    We also have incisors and canines, designed for cutting and tearing. Humans are naturally omnivorous, no matter what the PETA folks would like us to believe. Do we overemphasize meat? Sure. I know Americans do, and I’m sure plenty of other cultures do as well. But I’m certainly not going to apologize for craving some meat once in a while. I wouldn’t crave it if there was no reason to.

    Also, the reason so many people have unkind words for PETA is because a lot of the time they are simply ridiculous. I’ll grant you that their core cause (at least their professed cause) is generally quite admirable. But they tend to get so caught up in their desire for publicity that they engage in childish stunts and issue ludicrous proclamations. It only makes them look like human-hating extremists. The existence of even more extreme animal rights groups does not help them either. It’s a simple matter of perception/image. If they spent more time elucidating the rationale behind their positions, and less time shamelessly courting sensationalist publicity, then perhaps more people would be inclined to listen to their arguments.

    @Jaroslaw: You make a valid point when you bring up factory farms and the like. Unlike the majority of meat-eaters, I have watched many of the videos put out by animal rights groups. It truly does bother me, which is why I try to minimize my meat-eating whenever possible, as well as make the effort to purchase more humanely-raised meat whenever I can afford to.

    I was not aware, though, that cruelty laws did not cross the entire spectrum, though I suppose that should have been a logical conclusion on my part. In a perfect world, food animals would be treated as humanely as they deserve. This isn’t a perfect world. Until humane farms can figure out a way to reduce the price of the final product, I wouldn’t look for much to change on that front. Factory farms have the advantage of quick turnaround and low cost. I’m not saying it’s right, just that it’s a fact of life in the modern world. Not everyone can afford the humane offerings.

  • Buddy

    Jamie is my kind of fox, Peta, not so much.

    Maybe it’s my Canadian-ness, but I’ve never been too hot for extremist organizations, especially one’s that don’t walk the talk.

    Peta has a deplorable record when it comes to rescue animals: they euthanize way too much. See http://www.petakillsanimals.com/ for more details.

  • Jaroslaw

    Vernon- thanks for the kind words.

    Let me know your thoughts on this: Many sources I read say something like the following the digestive enzymes in our saliva & stomachs and our teeth and especially our very long digestive tracts much more reflect the plant eating animals of our planet than the meat eating ones.

    Further, it goes without saying the milk of any species is for the babies of that mother only!

    Most obviously, but ignored – one does not need meat at all to be big and strong – the elephants, rhino’s, giraffes, hippos etc. are ALL strictly vegetarian! :)

  • vernonvanderbilt

    @Jaroslaw: You’re absolutely correct regarding those anatomical/biological characteristics in human beings. However, keeping our tooth variety in mind, as well as many humans’ legitimate cravings for meat products, I have to take the stance that a normal human diet should consist mostly of fruits, vegetables, and grains, but that meat is a perfectly acceptable dietary supplement when eaten in moderation.

    As for milk, that’s something else I’ve often pointed out. However, being a milk fan, I’m in no position to argue that point very forcefully.

    Your final point, though, is a beautiful one. It’s not something that many people consider, so kudos to you for pointing it out.

  • rick

    jamie bamber has a new television show LAW AND ORDER: UK. he plays what best can be described as the chris noth role. it is the same show as the usa franchise but with brits.

  • Fred Walker

    @kelly: Yeah!!! Facts! What facts please…

  • ptrfortune

    bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare bare

  • Fred Walker

    @hardmannyc: how his social Darwinism pairing with nutrition?

  • hairybutt

    great ad to promote bare sex yupeee!!!

  • Fred Walker

    @Jaroslaw: One of the main reason we eat meat instead of a vegetal equivalent is the principle of process. Try eating the shit load of spinach that you would need to eat to replace a steak, carnivorous and omnivorous animals do not have the same food processing system has the herbivorous, and don’t forget that the first herbivorous humans extincted.

    I don’t mind adapting my diet to a more animal conscious alternative, but my problem with PETA is that they seem to care for other animals by systematically loathing their own kind. I wonder how PETA members would vote on marriage equality, womens equality or proletarian equality bills;)

  • donsnyc

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    Please contact their locals officials here:


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  • AB

    He loses his charm being associated with PeTA. Don’t have a rational argument. just throw up some naked pictures or try to rename fish.

  • Dawster

    wow. so much anger.

    first off, animal protein is not the worst for you – synthetic supplements are. if you want long and lean – you go veggie. if you want strong and muscular, you need to incorporate meat. works for humans, works for the animal kingdom… it’s amazing.

    try feeding a lion tofu for his entire life – then come back and talk about animal cruelty.

    now, the conditions in which mass food is produced can be atrocious (not always – i have a friend that worked at a slaughterhouse). this says more about human consumption and fast food chains’s control over our appetites. it has nothing to do with vegetarian vs. carnivores. we can have a discussion about capitalistic commercialism and the exploitation of animals and i would totally agree with all points.

    my solution is to not eat fast or easy food. i only eat at restaurants that serve local foods/animals/etc. and no chain restaurants at all. mostly 1 just cook at home based off what i buy (organic, free range, etc. etc. etc. but to abandon meat/fish/poultry all together is not a healthy answer.

    plus, there is a hypocritical aspect to vegetarians. death is NOT the worst thing that can happen to an animal. pumping it full of hormones, sticking it’s head through a hold and poking it’s ass till an egg falls out day after day out is far worse than lopping it’s head off. injecting a cow with needles and sticking suctions on it’s tits for 24 hours a day is far worse then knocking it over the head and putting it out of it’s misery.

    so i appreciate what vegans are trying to do. i get their point. it’s just not possible. everything from envelope glue to vodka can be made with animal parts. it’s noble, but not realistic.

    PETA, on the other hand… are a bunch of freaks, and their moral character tends to be more animalistic then the very creatures they are trying to protect.

  • RDM

    Ugh! Can we please respect the personal dietary choices of others?

  • hardmannyc

    “if you want strong and muscular, you need to incorporate meat. ”

    You’ve never met a bodybuilding vegeterian or vegan. There are many. Some would say I have some muscles and I am vegetarian (not, Jaroslaw, a vegan – sorry).

  • atdleft

    @hardmannyc: Heh. Good point. But hey, what do I know? I’m just a gay liberal atheist vegetarian who understands why groups like PETA need to shock us into recognizing reality.

    Our overly carnivorous diet is simply unsustainable. Not only are we killing off so many endgangered species and threatening the biodiversity of so many parts of the world, but we’re also worsening the climate crisis by creating so much demand for meat so allow the creation of all these “factory farms”.

    Frankly, we need a rude awakening.

  • atdleft

    And btw, Jamie Bamber is SMOKIN’ HOT! David, will you please (un)cover him in Morning Goods soon? ;-)

  • Phoenix (Mocks your Extremist Organization)

    When I saw that picture my only thoughts were “Lower. LOWER!!! darn.” ;)

  • Nick

    HARDMANNYC – pic or IP ban! ;)

  • Wes

    He’s not even naked! They usually show WAY more skin.

  • kevin (not that one)

    PETA: Right message, wrong group. Especially considering how many “rescued” animals they slaughter.

  • Sebbe

    You must admit though a lot of their ads are pretty well done. They must have loads of money. I actually ordered once their free vegan starter kit to look into it years ago. It was all about animal rights/cruelty (I know, why was I shocked). I was stupid and was just looking for recipes etc. Well needless to say, they have never stopped harassing me since.

  • Lianna

    Peta’s advertising strategies may be super sexy, but in their attempt to be eye-catching they reveal their willingness to oppress one group while fighting against the oppression of another


    Their transphobic “fur is a drag” campaign equates the “ridiculous” act of wearing fur to the <> equally ridiculous act of dressing drag.

  • rick

    my idea of a meal is a cow, a loaf of bread and a jar of miracle whip.

  • Eric James

    Why are you so horrible about PETA? They do a great job. Their mission is to change minds, so no wonder they’re in your face. At least they have a modicum of humour. And all these anti-veggie arguments about it going against millions of years of evolution… as a veggie for the last 35 years, I went for a medical check up and was told I could not feasably be any healthier than I am. Can’t be that bad for you then. And it’s a whole lot better for animals kept in tiny cages then skinned before they’re even dead…

  • kelly

    @Fred Walker: Anyone who’s interested in the facts concerning the pros of a plant-protein based diet should visit the site Physicians Committee For Responsible Medicine – http://pcrm.org/.

  • hardmannyc

    Eric: You hit on it. If these meat eaters think it’s so natural, how come they’re the ones with the high triglycerides, the high blood pressure, the heart attacks, the sky-high cholesterol?

  • Jaroslaw

    Fred Walker – the first herbivourous humans extincted? Reference please?

    As to eating a load of spinach – have you heard of nuts and seeds? If you really want information on how to eat vegetarian, it is out there.

    Another tidbit most people don’t know – The American Dairy Association was founded in the early 1900’s to push milk into the schools. It was the ONLY source of (biased) nutrition information until probably the 60’s. I used to hear their name invoked on the radio in an almost sacred way when in reality they are just a trade organization, like the National Snack Food Institute. Would you care what the NSFI said about eating healthy? For many years people listened to the ADA as if eating tons of ice cream, butter and cream was so healthy.

  • kelly

    Cow milk serves only one purpose and it does it extremely well- to turn a baby calf into a big fat cow.

  • Sebbe

    @kelly – true but I still sometimes wish I was on cheese. lol

  • jmachoutx

    I would respectfully encourage folks to not make the same mistake our enemies do in hearing slanders, lies, rumors, and stereotypes about gay people and — merely accepting them as fact without ever questioning or researching — spreading the misinformation and hatred as though it were the truth.

    As a gay PETA member, I find the sheer hatred directed at PETA to be unfortunate. What exactly did PETA ever do to you personally that was so horrible that you have to be so vehement and angry? If it’s just that you disagree with their message, so what? Don’t we still have a right to free speech in this country? If you don’t think so, you’re no different than those who try to shut us up when we advocate for equal rights for GLBT Americans, just because it makes them uncomfortable.

    Please learn the truth before you speak and spread falsehoods. Visit PETA’s website — http://www.PETA.org — and read what they’re really about. PETA’s message is simply that we shouldn’t cause unnecessary harm to animals. That’s it, really.

    People who throw around excessive terms like “extremists” or “terrorists” are clearly grasping for an excuse to ignore some uncomfortable truths. No, seriously. How is it any different from homophobic Utah legislator Chris Buttars calling gay people “mean,” “radical,” and “the greatest threat to America?”

    Yes, PETA does attention-getting stunts. Again, so what? You can’t change people’s minds without getting their attention, and PETA learned long ago that, in effecting social change, being effective is more important than being liked or even respected. Our community’s organizations (and individuals) would do well to stop hating on PETA and start learning from them.

  • vernonvanderbilt

    @kelly: You neglect to mention that the PCRM is a front group for PETA pretending to be an impartial medical organization. Not saying they completely lack valid information, but I think people need to be aware where the information is coming from.

  • Dawster

    what did PETA do to me?

    they are a group of people with no morals or balanced thinking. the ends ALWAYS justifies the means no matter who they have to harm, blow up, degrade, or lie to – and all for animals they end up killing anyway. their “our way or no way” mentality is tantamount to a religious cult where common sense is trumped by mission each and every time.

    what is worst, is there is no allowance for individuality. we are all human beings AND WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT. one person needs for survival will kill another. i HAVE to have some meat. there is no choice. this is the doctor’s orders (small amounts of red meat every once in a while – mostly poultry). i have to have some fish. there is no choice. whether i order a salmon or drink fish oil from a bottle – i’m still killing a fish. so what do i do?

    i make choices that are best to my environment, my community, and my health. i have chosen to bypass the commercialism enterprise forcing over-consumption. anyone who stops eating meat because of cruelty to animals is cutting off the nose to spite the face. i cannot do that and remain healthy.

    yet PETA does not allow me to do that. it doesn’t take individual people into consideration. it doesn’t think about the glue, ink, mineral oils, vodka distilled through charred animal bones, etc. there are more animal byproducts in one PETA fundraiser than go through any McDonalds in the USA (maybe McDonalds was a bad example….). even Vegan.com says it’s impossible to be completely animal byproduct free.

    that’s fine. we’re working in that direction. that’s cool. i still think vegetarians are hypocrites… i still think vegans are cool and trying.

    so whereas the IDEA is fine… the holier-than-tho ‘if you eat meat you’ll get high blood pressure’ ‘anyone who is a carnivore is killing the planet’ ‘let’s rename fish to make them cute’ places PETA on a platform worthy of criticism. i get condemned for trying to maintain a lifestyle I NEED to survive. It reminds me of the religious cult that currently has my mother in it’s grips. there is no room for error, there is no room for individual healthy choices.

    THAT is what PETA did to me.

  • hardmannyc

    “i HAVE to have some meat. there is no choice. this is the doctor’s orders (small amounts of red meat every once in a while – mostly poultry). i have to have some fish. there is no choice. whether i order a salmon or drink fish oil from a bottle – i’m still killing a fish. so what do i do?”

    I’ll tell you what to do: Find another doctor. The one you have is a quack.

  • vernonvanderbilt


    “Even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we would be against it.”

    Who said that? Oh, the president of PETA said that.

    “Blowing stuff up and smashing windows” is “a great way to bring about animal liberation. Hallelujah to the people who are willing to do it.”

    Who said that? Oh, that was PETA vegetarian campaign coordinator Bruce Friedrich.

    Which activist group has murdered nearly 20,000 dogs, cats, and other “companion animals” since 1998? Yeah, that was PETA.

    Who has handled the press for the Animal Liberation Front (ALF), a group of fanatics who plant firebombs in restaurants, destroy butcher shops, and torch research labs? Yup, PETA.

    Who announced with a 2001 billboard that a shark attack on a little boy was “revenge” against humans who had it coming anyway? Of course.

    Who, when called out for a tasteless ad campaign comparing chickens to Holocaust victims, responded by saying “Six million people died in concentration camps, but six billion broiler chickens will die this year in slaughterhouses?” Well, that was PETA president Ingrid Newkirk.

    Who distributed a pamphlet to school children entitled “Your Mommy Kills Animals!” that featured a demented cartoon “mommy” about to stab a bunny? Mmm hmm.

    Sounds pretty extremist to me. If you don’t think it does, then maybe you should get counseling or something.

  • Jaroslaw

    Dawster – you can’t expect to be taken seriously with a rant like that! I’m not a PETA member, but to say an entire group of people is without morals? ALL PETA members blow up buildings and lie? Just for one silly example – you mention vodka filtered through charred animal bones – that is precisley the point! Carbon filters DON’T need to be made out of animal bones.

    And Vernon – yeah, some of that stuff sounds a bit extremist but not all of it or even most of it. Like another poster said if you can’t even get people’s attention, you can’t change their minds.

    What I’m going to say is not necessarily things you’re unaware of but I want to be clear and for the other reader’s info.

    However, I will also concede that if it is so extreme or tasteless that you immediately turn people off, you can’t get anywhere either. OK, you got quite a list there, and a couple things really look bad. Let’s take your first one – our entire lives we’re fed contradictions – we watch cartoons about Bambi and Bugs Bunny but then our parents lie to us about what is at the dinner table. Most obviously by calling something hamburger or steak or “nuggets” instead of dead ground up cow flesh or chicken flesh, which is what it is.

    The second example about smashing windows – I wouldn’t do it, and I don’t think Bruce Friedrich was advocating it as something everyone should or must do to be a PETA member. But it speaks to the constant stream of lies we were fed since we were children about how animal research is conducted, how meat is made. Meat companies themselves show the red barn, sunny skies and white fences and the animals are out in a beautiful meadow. The truth couldn’t be further away – and so some people acknowledge animals have feelings and they aren’t just meat machines. Imagine how upset you would be if someone dissected your pet cat or dog ALIVE? This actually happens in the butcheries to cows etc. The stun guns don’t always work, or work all the way. I have seen a dog get its feelings hurt by an owner, I know my cat is happy to see me when I get home.

    How can one ignore the fact a sheep can recognize over 100 faces? So, I can see how someone like Friedrich can make a remark like that and not be a complete lunatic.

    And I’ve said this before, I wonder if (some not all here) people would be so casually advocating such callous positions about animals if they actually visited a factory farm or a rescue farm and saw the remains of brutalized animals left for dead or rejected for meat production because they were too sickly, tossed in a heap with living and dead animals alike.

    THAT is extreme too!

  • Jaroslaw

    sorry I missed the first one completely, I was trying to parallel why some people feel animals are not to be used for research. In my ramble about the lies we’re told, it is to (not the right words) but “dehumanize”, etc. to make the animal void of any feelings, thoughts etc. When we know they do have them. As I say later,a sheep can recognize 100 faces.

  • vernonvanderbilt

    @Jaroslaw: I was already aware of the majority of the facts you presented, but I appreciate you sharing them. I don’t want anyone to get me wrong here…I’m an animal lover myself. If I didn’t live in a pet-free home, I’d probably have several cats, and possibly a small dog or two as well. I think animals often make better companions than people.

    My only problem is with PETA’s hypocrisy and anti-human stances. I’m sorry, but if it would cure AIDS or cancer or any heinous disease, I’d willingly sacrifice a million rats. As far as arson, bombings, and vandalism, which are all things PETA has directly or indirectly offered their endorsement of, I cannot rationalize that activity for this particular cause. I think they would do better to distance themselves from extremist fringe groups. It would certainly make them appear more reasonable.

    And have you heard about the PETA folks who are facing charges for lying to people, telling them they intended to find homes for animals they gave them, only to euthanize them right in the van and dump the bodies in a dumpster? Doesn’t sound like people who love animals to me.

    And the fact that in 2003 alone they euthanized over 90% of the animals entrusted to their care? They said these animals were hopeless causes, unable to be rehabilitated, and they were putting them out of their suffering. Funny then that the shelter a few miles down the road was able to place somewhere around 70% of their animals in adoptive homes.

    I honestly don’t believe PETA is interested in helping animals as much as it is interested in garnering publicity for itself. Their tactics don’t show me that they even make an honest effort at communicating with their fellow humans on a reasonable, rational level. Instead, they prefer to enrage and condescend, and as a result, they turn off more people than they talk into supporting them. They’re little more than arrogant publicity-whores.

  • Charles J. Mueller

    I think one really big aspect of biology that everyone, however well intentioned here, is overlooking the fact that in nature, everything eats everything. Hence the term “food chain”.

    There was a time in our early development, when we too were a part of the food chain. Only with the application of our intellect and only with our learning how to make and use tools, were we able to remove ourselves from the food chain and move to the top of it.

    Rationalizing over the eating of other animal forms, is about as redundant, as arguing over whether a lion or a tiger is violating God’s laws (or our own) by hunting down and eating a Zebra. Obviously, some animals seem to have evolved as herbivores and others have evolved as carnivores. Others, like humans, seem to have evolved to be both and while I would be the first to agree that excessive eating of red meat causes a host of medical problems, there is no reason to suspect that a healthy balance of vegetables, fruits, nuts and berries and lean meats is detrimental to anyone. Ill health can be brought on by a variety of causes that have absolutely nothing to do with diet.

    Smoking. Consuming alcohol. Doing drugs. Breathing polluted air. Indulging in risky sex. Excessive exposure to sunlight and not getting enough sleep are but a few of the things that contribute to sickness and even death.

    It should also be pointed out that organizations like PETA, however well intentioned (can we also say HRA) exist for their own celebration. Are they really committed to the cause for which they stand? if the “problem” disappears, so might they. And we all know the old adage “A bureaucracy, once created, continues to exist long after the need for it has disappeared.” They would simply find another “worthy cause” and jump on that bandwagon.

    Organizations like these see (and acknowledge) only their point of view and what they consider to be the “truth”. No one else’s opinion, especially when it differs from theirs, is worthy of consideration or discussion.

    Anti-abortionist’s are a good example in point. While I will not get into a debate about this also very controversial topic, we are all too familiar with some of the radical extremists who have defaced property, slurred and profaned physicians good names and in some instances, even killed them…all in the name of “preserving life”.

    Kind of takes the wind out of their sails, doesn’t it?

  • Sebbe

    Did someone say chicken was a red meat???? That person does need a new doctor. No doctor (qualified) is going to tell you you HAVE to have a bit of red meat and fish. I’m not completely vegan, but I try to be as much as possible. I do slip once every other month or so.

  • Dawster

    @hardmannyc: why would i find another doctor? in a year i lost 110 pounds, i gained back muscle, my blood levels are completely balanced, i’m no longer borderline diabetic, i sleep well, i have more energy… and my life has been lengthened considerably.

    but… you’re proving my point – just because YOUR body accepts a certain dietary habit, doesn’t mean everyone else can. and because mine can’t… i get labeled and judged… ON A GAY WEBSITE. the lack of realism in the face of reality is staggering – if someone said PETA was started by Scientology, i would say “oh, that figures”. i don’t need a pompous, self-inflated organization to tell me “hey, if you’re going to eat chicken, don’t eat at a fast food joint – buy organic free-range and cook at home.”

    guess what? that’s what i do.

    respect over consumption. give over greed. understanding over selfishness. these are the things i stand for and NONE of them are what PETA represents.

  • Jaroslaw

    No, I have not heard that PETA euthanized animals – much less 90%. Do you have a reference for that? Was it just one chapter of PETA or the whole organization? I know many people in PETA and the Right to Life movement and folks here cannot paint with such a broad brush that all or most are murderers, liars etc. And Vernon – just to be clear, I’m not “rationalizing” in the sense that I’m saying it is okay to blow up buildings, I said I can undertand the frustrations that lead to such actions.

    As others have said on various blogs, for only one example, Gay organizations pleaded for tolerance and understanding for years, but the White Night riots in California changed police attitudes towards Gays overnight. Ditto with the race riots & march on Washington in the sixties. How about the Civil War? Correct me if I’m wrong, but major changes don’t come by nice talk.

    Probably ALL organizations have extremist members on both fringes with the majority of the members in the middle and to point to the extremes and say “takes the wind out of their sails” really doesn’t prove much. Most everyone agrees or at least says “what a shame about the suffering of food animals” and “what a shame women feel the need for so many abortions” but what do most of us really do about it?

    What I’m trying to say here is it is easy to sit back and criticize organizations that try to do something. Does PETA exist for its own sake? Are the sincere members simply misled? I don’t know. I do know that ALL organizations have to do some self promotion, fund raising etc. or they cease to exist.

    We will agree 100% on one thing – if a million rats needed to be sacrificed to cure AIDS I wouldn’t have a problem with that!

  • kelly

    @Dawster: Seek out a second opinion.

  • hardmannyc

    Dawster: I have never in my life heard of anyone — anyone — being told by a responsible physician to eat red meat for his health, in any amount.

    You either had such a hideous diet before that eating anything with nutritive value would have helped you (if you lost 110 pounds in a year, you were morbidly obese, which proves my point); or you are delusional. Morbidly obese people almost always are. It’s a disease.

  • Sebbe

    @hardmannyc – agree

  • Charles J. Mueller


    See post no. 48.

  • Jaroslaw

    Charles – you’re kidding of course. Petakillsanimals.com is hardly seems an unbiased source. Nor did I see any sources cited in their “articles.”

  • vernonvanderbilt

    @Jaroslaw: Check out http://www.petakillsanimals.com/downloads/PetaKillsAnimals.pdf as well. That’s the actual paperwork that was acquired via a public records request. It’s from 1998, so it doesn’t cover the entire spectrum.

    You can also check here: http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/21

    They lay out a lot more issues than I did.

    I’m not saying the cause isn’t worthwhile; I am saying that PETA may not be the most trustworthy proponents of it.

  • Dawster

    i did have a problem. i will admit that. i ate too much red meat. i was told to reduce that and eat more chicken, fish, and vegetables. that i did. but i was NOT to eliminate red meat from my diet completely because of the way my blood worked. this was said over two doctors, one in florida and one in texas.

    on the contrary, there is a (girl) friend that is all about PETA. she has heart problems. she has chest pains. her blood is out of wack completely (she won’t give me the details). her doctor told her to eat more fish and to have red meat at least twice a month or so. she refuses and her body is deteriorating and she is in constant turmoil… and i’m here to watch her suffer.

    i don’t know a doctor (a real doctor) on the planet who would not promote a balance diet… someone who takes into consideration a person’s body and ancestry and says “hey… go vegan”. please provide a name. please give me examples of vegetarian body builders. say something other than my researched doctor and dietitian is a quack just because you think so.

    otherwise, this is all pointless. i feel like i’m arguing for condoms to barebackers who think there is no such thing as HIV or mormons who think the american indians are descendants of the apostles. i can’t argue against people without common sense or with people who’s scientific knowledge is handed to them from a biased platform.

    i can say nothing more.

  • Sebbe

    @Dawster – Well you still have to watch WHAT you eat and as a vegan, ensure that you are still getting all that you need from various sourses (possibly even more so).

    There is nothing that your body needs from red meat that you cannot get from another plant protein source. As far as fish, I am not a vegan, because I still eat seafood (mostly Salmon), against my doctors orders, but… as far as the red meat, it is probably the worst thing you can eat, besides all the processed food that is sold everywhere in the US.

    Like I said I am not an expert so I will let someone else address your other issues/questions/concerns. I just wanted to reiterate that part, it is not a simple as cutting meat/fish out of your diet, you need to replace what you do get from them from another source that is usually healthier all around for you (and less fat).

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