I grew up in Lutherville, Maryland, and Divine’s family moved up the street from mine, maybe six houses away. They had a child’s nursery school. And Divine was their only child, which I always thought was questionable advertising.
John Waters speaking to The Hollywood Reporter about his unique friendship with Harris Glenn Milstead (a.k.a. Divine).
And he was in high school, but he got beat up. He got hassled. He was an overweight, kind of feminine nerd. And the rage he built up from being abused so much by the students and the teachers led to Divine–a character that he was not like at all.
But then I created and wrote the lines for him and made up this image that was made to scare hippies, basically.
And Divine wasn’t trans. He didn’t want to be a woman. He wanted to be Godzilla and Elizabeth Taylor put together. He never walked around in drag or anything. He never did that. He wasn’t trans. I mean, he’d be for that movement, but he wore expensive men’s suits and all, and that’s what he was striving for.
I always have said that RuPaul–who has been around as long as we have and I really salute him for making drag totally acceptable by the middle class–but one of the reasons for RuPaul’s success that nobody ever mentions is he also had a great look out of drag. And most drag queens do not concentrate on that.
Because a lot of drag queens don’t even want to be photographed out of drag.
SarcasaticMisanthrope
Divine was a cultural phenomenon. He would have been fantastic on “Married with Children”. Unfortunately he passed away before it was ever shot. John Waters is correct, Divine was NOT Trans. He was a Drag Queen and a good one at that.
S.anderson
Folks in my circles were not ready to lose Divine when he died. He would have continued to make a huge difference in the world.
Marsha P. Washington was also a gay man who firmly described himself as a transvestite or drag queen.
abfab
I saw Francine Fishpaw at the 9:30 club DC a few nights before he died. xoxoxoxox
LumpyPillows
Would have been great to see Glenn in Married with Children. One of the saddest stories how on the eve of getting to appear on that show he died.
Doug
I still say Divine’s character as Babs Johnson in “Pink Flamingos” is the best drag personality that’s ever been characterized.
dbmcvey
This is where we see the ignorance of the conservatives posting on this site. When a drag queen (which Divine was) is in drag she is a “she.” When out of drag, assuming they’re not trans, Glenn is a “he.” Chiming in through your prejudice when you don’t know what you’re talking about just makes you look stupid.
decrans
Please, Davey. You’re one of the idiots touting Marsha Johnson as a trans woman. Y’all get so confused about your own terminology. But those damn conservatives! My advice? Get your own definitions in order first! But you know, they change yearly now.
dbmcvey
Marsha P. Johnson called herself a transvestite. She never identified as transgender, but that’s because it wasn’t a common term. We don’t know how she would identify now, but she definitely wouldn’t have been an anti-trans conservative troll.
decrans
But that doesn’t stop your ilk from attaching that transgender label to Marsha Johnson come Pride Month. Why are the conservatives so confused? Hmm. I don’t know. Look inward, Davey.
dbmcvey
I don’t have an “ilk”, fool.
decrans
My bad. I guess I should have said far-left gender ideologues.
S.anderson
Marsha P Washington knew quite well what “transgender” was and yet identified as a gay man who was a transvestite and drag queen. There’s no need to speculate or daydream about what he would identify as today.
decrans
And weren’t you the same person who claimed pansexual was invented in the Middle Ages? If all these conflicting terms were invented in the AD period, y’all would have had adequate time to sort it out for flyover country, yeah?
dbmcvey
s.anderson,
There’s also no need to speculate if she would have been of your ilk i.e. a far right anti-trans zealot. It’s not that she was unaware, it’s that identifying as transgender was not a common thing. She did identify as a transvestite which was the commonly used term.
There’s a great documetary all you anti-trans freaks should watch called “Casa Susanna” which was about a gathering place for primarily middle class heterosexual men in the ’50s & ’60s which will give you a far better idea of the times than any of your right wing propaganda sites.
Also, I remember when all you anti-trans people were vilifying Marsha P. Johnson, you should realize that neither she, Divine or John Waters are good props to advance you anti-trans agenda.
S.anderson
@dbmcvey: It is not “anti-trans” to remember that most people who dress in the clothes of their opposite sex are not transgender. They’re transvestites and drag queens. It goes counter to trans doctrine, but nonetheless it is the truth.
You’re doing nobody any favors by maintaining that Marsha would have been in the trans camp if only he didn’t live in such ancient, dark times.
It isn’t that ‘poor ignorant’ Marsha didn’t know a better term for himself than “transvestite”. Dude was in the center of all things in NYC. He surely knew transgender and transsexual folk who used those terms as well.
He said he was a gay man who was a transvestite and drag queen. He clearly spoke. Do not talk over him.
dbmcvey
It is anti-trans to make one drag queen not being trans into some kind of political statement. The way the anti-trans conservative trolls pounced on this is weird. No one seriously claimed Divine was trans.
decrans
Oh, but these far-left gender ideologues LOVE talking over people. Marsha Johnson, de-transitoners, etc. Their experiences trump everyone else’s. And we must adopt their views lickety-split! I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. They are not much different from some of the evangelical Christians in my lifetime. The evangelicals use the ‘Bible told me so!’ line. Davey, maybe you should get a tagline, too. Marketing 101.
decrans
Not to mention the blatant racism and privilege of Dave Matthews superimposing his bourgeoise white values on a dead working-class Black person. Typical privileged white liberalism, though. It’s another reason I left the Democratic Party and never looked back.
S.anderson
@dbmcvey: No. But sadly, it is evidentaly “pro-trans” to assimilate a known non-trans drag queen into glorious transness and, in power, scold anyone who tries to keep the truth in sight.
LumpyPillows
Ironic that Queerty can post an article about Divine being a man and then misgender him in the title.
dbmcvey
When a queen is in drag you always say “she.” Divine was “she.” Glen was “he.”
LumpyPillows
Do I believe you or John Waters? I’ll go with John Waters.
dbmcvey
Hey Lump,
Go into a drag show (I’m sure you’ve never been to one) and call the queens “he.” See what happens.
John Waters was Glenn’s friend. He knew him since they were children–you don’t have that privilege.
dbmcvey
Also, Divine was the only drag queen John Waters worked with. He did work with some trans performers so I doubt he’s an anti-trans zealot like you Lumper.
Mister P
The headline is correct. The rage fueled Divine not Glenn.
LumpyPillows
Divine as a character.
dbmcvey
Yeah, Glenn didn’t usually exhibit that rage. It was for Divine.
Den
I had the pleasure of meeting Glenn a few times when he was in San Francisco for a theater run. He had taken an apartment in my neighborhood and shopped for house plants at a nursery I was plant buyer for. So I saw him there, and ran into him on the street as well. He was quiet, somewhat shy and very pleasant to talk to. And I suspect he was pleased when folks did not think of him as his character.
gjg64
Hey abfab…..I was at that show too. It was her last ever performance. She insulted me from the stage too!!!!
abfab
YES!
mildredspierce
“I’m a thief and a shit kicker and …I want to be famous.” Long live Dawn Davenport!
abfab
”Oh, Cuddles, where did I put my cha cha heels!” Remember the giant lobster scene?
bachy
I was a (leopardskin print-wearing) teen runaway one summer and landed in PTown. Not sure how but I met a very friendly Holly Woodlawn who gave me a ticket to a performance of Divine’s mind-blowing play, “Neon Woman.” After the show Holly insisted on giving me a “punk” haircut backstage where I met the entire cast, and I joined them post-show at a local diner. Divine (in male drag) barely spoke the entire meal, communicating only with elaborate hand gestures. I don’t remember a lot of the details because I was so blazed.
abfab
What a great story!
bachy
Thanks, abbie! I think it was my tight, sleeveless, Fiorucci leopardskin print top (I had no muscles but I was skinny), paired with tight turquoise jeans and Dingo boots(?) that won me entrance into their ultra-artsy troupe.
Fashion, people! Fashion! It opens doors! I guess Woodlawn just thought my hair needed an upgrade.
hiphapndude
I had the pleasure of meeting Glenn when Divine would perform in Vancouver BC Canada at the Gandydancer, early 80’s. I worked there as a very shy busboy & intimidated knowing I was one of few staff assisting him to set up.
He was a total sweetheart and immediately as he could sense my innocent unease. However, total gentleman, funny naturally and a big teddy bear,both on and off stage.
abfab
On Davie Street?
abfab
See ”I Am Divine” if you haven’t already. Such a terrific docu. Everyone!
abfab
I just HAD to paste this here! The ”dialogue” between these two ladies at a Baltimore bus stop was then sampled in to a dance house/techno track called Glamor Girl. It’s just too great a moment. in cinematic history.
As a little bonus, here is a transcription of the dialogue between the two gossipy ladies played by Mink Stole and Mimi Lochary at the end of the film. Mink provides her own, post-dubbed voice, but Mimi’s lines are done by her son, David. In this scene, the two ladies stand at a bus sop and pass judgment on Mary Vivian Pearce’s character, who has just materialized in front of them.
LADY 1: Is that a boy or a girl?
LADY 2: Is it a fa g go t?
LADY 1: It’s a dy ke.
LADY 2: No, it’s a hippie.
LADY 1: A communist?
LADY 2: Perhaps it’s a drag queen.
LADY 1: Or a wash rag queen.
LADY 2: It’s probably a speed freak.
LADY 1: Or a pothead.
LADY 2: Or a muffin queen.
LADY 1: Look at her. It’s just a whore.
LADY 2: Or maybe a gold digger.
LADY 1: She’s a hustler.
LADY 2: Yeah, or some sort of intellectual.
LADY 1: She’s probably a rimmer.
LADY 2: Hmmm. Maybe a speed freak.
LADY 1: A chicken queen.
LADY 2: Or a shrimp freak.
LADY 1: But, but it could be a narc.
LADY 2: Yeah, or maybe a beatnik.
LADY 1: Or a junkie.
LADY 2: Yes or an acid-head.
LADY 1: Or a spade.
LADY 2: Or just a gigolo.
LADY 1: Just a flower child.
LADY 2: Yeah, a shit-kicker.
LADY 1: Or a red.
LADY 2: Yeah, or a glamour girl.
LADY 1: Maybe she’s some just sort of snob.
LADY 2: Yeah. Maybe just some Polack.
LADY 1: Or a warmonger.
LADY 2: Yeah or an S&M queen.
LADY 1: Oh, it’s just a teenager.
LADY 2: Yeah, maybe it’s one of those Hell’s Angels.
LADY 1: You think it’s a baby butch?
LADY 2: It could be a f a g hag.
LADY 1: Or maybe it’s a b-girl.
LADY 2: Yeah, or a closet queen.
LADY 1: A hair hopper.
LADY 2: Yeah, maybe a movie star.
LADY 1: Well, she’s a dropout of some sort.
LADY 2: Yeah. What is that word? Uh, dingleberry.
LADY 1: Or a draft dodger.
LADY 2: Yeah, or maybe just a runaway.
LADY 1: Or some sort of, you know, peacenik.
LADY 2: Yeah, or a hooker.
LADY 1: Or she’s one of those Yippies.
LADY 2: Mmmm. Maybe it’s one of those jet-setters.
LADY 1: But I’ll bet it’s just a whore.
LADY 2: Yeah, or maybe a dinge queen.
LADY 1: A rimmer.
LADY 2: Yeah, or a size queen.
LADY 1: A hustler.
LADY 2: Oh, she makes me sick.
LADY 1: Whore.
abfab
From Mondo Trasho ….at last ”a gutter film”.
Original post by J Blevins d2rights at blogspot
dbmcvey
Divine, and Glenn, are so missed.
abfab
A most amazing and hysterical legacy.
dbmcvey
Too bad this had to get politicized by people who don’t know the drag world. Divine, the drag queen, was a “SHE.” Glenn Milstead, not in drag, was a “HE.” Now, before you say a bunch of stuff that just makes it clear you don’t understand the drag world, think a bit.
abfab
Like talking to a cement wall. Let them wallow.
decrans
I do declare. How will these conservatives ever understand? Well, that’s reality. They control the levers of power. Better start figuring it out as opposed to incessant kvetching.
dbmcvey
I love when someone comes along and proves the point of who they’re arguing against.
Fname Optional Lname
it’s really not that serious.
rick
Was at Los Angeles ‘ Rock On Film event for premiere of Hairspray– entire cast assembled onstage when interrupted by news of Divine’s death — So stunned all we were..
In 1970s Divine appeared at Brooks Beach – Venice Calif gay beach– Mountain of a man in flaming orange jumpsuit with mini entourage undressed to a sparkly crimson thong–It was none other – He sat down at our lil beach blanket – asked “Got any pot?” and proceeded to smoke all we had- sharing hits gracefully– Then went from group to group cleaning up all the weed everyone else had.. My stunning pal Don meanwhile went into restroom to hookup with one from the entourage– at high noon —
abfab
This is just like the memorial service that I did not go to. What a beautifully sunny and stoned memory. Thanks Rick.
It was stunning, his sudden departure.
inbama
I remember seeing Divine on stage in the late Tom Eyen’s “Women Behind Bars.” Eyen was a brilliant writer, and I remember the evening being howlingly funny. And Divine certainly knew how to take a stage.
abfab
I don’t see what’s shocking about a man in a dress.
-Divine
abfab
I’ve been working now for 24 years. That’s a long time to be around for playing only one note, and I’m making a damn good living. And if some still think I’m a woman, that’s OK, too.
-Divine
abfab
I think of myself as a living cartoon.
-Divine
abfab
It comes to a point where a lot of people don’t know if I’m a man or a woman. I find it quite a compliment.
-Divine
abfab
I mean, there are a lot of big people out there that they’re still very beautiful people.
-Divine
abfab
LOL
I am a character actor and one of my characters just happens to be a loud, vulgar woman.
-Divine
abfab
America is a hardheaded place. It’s tough to be different here.
-Divine
abfab
I’m a nice guy, I really am.
-Divine
abfab
I can stand on stage and do nothing, and people will write, ‘Divine was outrageous.’
-Divine
abfab
Alfred Hitchco ck was right when he said that actors are basically like cattle. Directors just look at us and yell ‘Move!’
-Divine