Gay male partners who bother establishing rules for sex outside their relationships do so not because they’re most worried about contracting fun multi-syllabic communicable diseases, but because they don’t want to do anything that would constitute “cheating.”
Sure, “men in monogamous relationships reported greater levels of intimacy with their partner, more trust, commitment and attachment toward their partner and greater equality in the relationship,” but that doesn’t mean sleeping with other people can’t also be a great time, AMIRIGHT? A new study published in AIDS Care from researchers at San Francisco State University found “gay couples’ top reasons for establishing sexual agreements were to build trust in the relationship, promote honesty between partners and to protect the relationship,” relays Sify.
Researchers looked at 566 gay male couples around the San Francisco area and “found that 99 percent had sexual agreements.” Which is a very high percentage, I am told. “Specifically, 45 percent had monogamous agreements, 47 percent had open agreements” — and then there are these guys — “and 8 percent of couples had discrepant agreements where partners reported a different understanding of whether they have an open or monogamous agreement.” That spells trouble.
Cam
Yeah, but how many straight couples “don’t Know” that they had an open marriage? Hillary Clinton, John Edwards Wive, Newt Gingriche’s wife etc… to name a few spouses who I’m sure were in the dark.
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
@Cam: ~LOL They don’t know they are in an open relationship until they actually find out they are!! :-p</em<
L.
@Cam: Newt’s *wives* 🙂 *All* of them were into one and did not know.
Fitz
For me, it’s not much of a relationship if you can’t have open conversations about what you want.
Matt
I’d like to see a study on what percentage of gay males do not date at all.
Pete
I wonder if the couples that had a discrepancy actually knew what their situation was but had trouble classifying it as open or monogamous. For example, my partner and I on rare occasions have a third, but have never had sex with another person unless we are together. Our agreement is that we would talk about that before it happened. I don’t know whether I would put monogamous or open on a survey — neither seems 100% accurate.
L.
@Matt: The answer depends on whether you compute it as a percentage of population, or mass. I should know.
Kevin, New Jersey
Kinda glad to see this reported. For a long time (at least in my social circle), I’ve been made to feel like the “open” arrangement I have w/. my partner (of 10+ years) was something strange and immoral, even in the eyes of other queers. But 47% tells me I’m in the mainstream (of San Francisco gay men at least), and I feel a bit vindicated for it. Thanks 🙂
L.
@Kevin, New Jersey: I would submit that you should feel vindicated because the arrangement is working out, not because of some poll or others’ opinions. What happens in your bedroom isn’t government business, but neither is it other people’s, gay or straight. “Whatever works as long as no-one gets hurt” is a simple rule that should apply to all.
ctownlee
I would be curious to see a survey done outside of just one geographic area. San Fransico, fun town so not bashing, doesn’t seem to compare well with other parts of the country.
Jollysocks
It’s kind of a depressing statistic, in my opinion.
Everyone is free to have open relationships, I’m not going to judge the “morality” of it. I’m sure it works for some people, and being open and establishing rules is certainly better than betrayal.
However . . . I’ve seen so many relationships destroyed by this. Couples who thought it would be fun to play with a third, and end up getting real burned. It’s not about the third person invading the relationship or getting one of the partners to fall in love with them . . . something is lost in a long-term relationship once the monogamy has come to an end. It’s not about straight definitions of “fidelity” . . . it’s an eventual loss of trust, even if the action was agreed to by both parties.
Long-term relationships give back what you put into them. Everyone’s free to define their relationship by their own standards, but I sure know a lot of over 40 year single gay men who are miserable because they’re already thrown their best relationships away years ago over stupid shit.
Jackson
@Jollysocks: I disagree with your assertion that “something is lost in a long-term relationship once the monogamy has come to an end.” My husband and I had a very strong relationship before we opened it up. Afterward, though, we each felt a lot more freedom to express ourselves and our desires to the other. We learned a lot about each other that we may never have known, and we’re much closer for it.
SteamPunk
I’d be more interested in seeing what the numbers reflect for those gay men outside of San Francisco. Who knows? It may be similar. However, I get skeptical whenever I see San Francisco upheld as a representation of all gay people – no matter if its done so by progressive news outlets, polls or even Fox News.
Chipsy
LOL. Half of us admit to open relationships and we are still whining about “marriage equality” as if our relationships are the same as straights!
Fitz
@Chipsy: My relationship probably isn’t the same as the majority’s. My money, my risk, my eventual need for healthcare, however, is. It’s not a call for equal marriages, it’s a call for equal rights. Same payoffs, same risks, etc.
Jon
These “studies”, that are geographically centric to SF cannot be attributed to Gay couples.
“Researchers looked at 566 gay male couples around the San Francisco area”
Well that’s typical. . .research the gay, there’s only one place to go . . . SF. .. there might even be a few in Berkley.
There happens to be 50 other states with cities & towns not included in this “study”. . .and plenty of us who are sick to death of this bullshit.
christopher di spirito
8% of gay men are Log Cabin Republicans, too.
40% of gay men in Massachusetts voted for Republican Scott Brown to fill the late Ted Kennedy’s US Senate seat because they think Brown is “hot.”
Just because you’re gay doesn’t mean you’re smarter than a house plant. Just saying.
Ervs
What I hate is the idea that monogamy is no longer considered ok in the gay community and the bear community. You can hear the attacks from the open relationship people all the time. They use words like open which is not neutral and they talk about honesty and communication as if they are the only ones who are.
I am gay and monogamous. And being in a relationship, even a monogamous one requires honesty and communication and continually learning about others. So, good for all of us and no ones is better than any body else’s relationship.
aaron
As a few have mentioned, SF stats don’t apply nation wide. I’m sure more straight people in SF have open or poly or whatever relationships than in the rest of the country too. SF is really “sex positive,” this is a town after all that has not one but two S&M/leather street fairs.
That said, I’d like to see the age break down of those in open vs. monogamous relationships. It seems to me that guys my age and younger (the 30 and under crowd) seem to tend to be in monogamous relationships whereas the 40 and over crowd seem to have open relationships.
Gosszip
@Jackson: Sounds like you guys just got bored and wanted to stick your dicks in new people.
But good job on the communication part.
Brian Miller
Monogamous, serocompatible relationships are the best safeguard against HIV for sexually active gay men.
I don’t know why the gay health organizations continue to sell the myth that promiscuity isn’t a higher-risk option if you use a rubber. How many people use a rubber during oral sex? How many people have used a rubber only to have it split open?
If you sleep around often enough, protected or not, you will get HIV. The question of “safe sex” merely delays the onset of seroconversion by a significant margin.
Much better to be safe with someone you trust and care about.
Brian Miller
monogamy is no longer considered ok in the gay community and the bear community. You can hear the attacks from the open relationship people all the time.
It’s OK. 20 years from now, most of the “open relationship” people criticizing you will have late-stage HIV and will insist that it’s not their fault.
L.
@Brian Miller: Almost everything you mentioned, Benedict XVI said. Un-can-nee.
Brian Miller
Almost everything you mentioned, Benedict XVI said.
Yeah, the pope is a real advocate of monogamous gay relationships. /eyeroll
L.
@Chipsy: Actually, if half our relationships involve sex on the side, we are *pretty* close to being the same to straights’.
All we need is marriage, so that we, too, can get a 50% divorce rate, and equality will have been reached.
L.
@Brian Miller: I *said*, “almost”. Replace “gay men” with “adults” and you’re there.
(He is against eyerolls, too, I’d bet.)
Brian Miller
I *said*, “almost”. Replace “gay men” with “adults” and you’re there.
Nice try, but it’s difficult to argue with statistics. Most guys who seroconvert in America today aren’t doing so because their partner cheated — it’s a direct result of repeated exposure to anonymous partners in high-frequency sexual encounters.
Rubbers just reduce the risk of fluidic contact with HIV, they don’t eliminate it. In the long term, promiscuity leads to HIV infection, and the statistics (and rising infection rates) bear me out on that.
Being a sexually-active gay man doesn’t mean you’re doomed to HIV infection.
However, if you’re less careful, more “carefree,” and less selective in who your partner is and the level of trust and commitment you have with that partner, your likelihood of seroconversion is much higher. An unpleasant truth, to be certain, but an unpleasant truth nonetheless.
L.
@Ervs: “So, good for all of us and no ones is better than any body else’s relationship.”
I agree with you entirely there. But the whole post sorts of make you sound like you think your choice is better (and I’m not saying you do; only that to me it sounds somewhat like it.)
And I agree that “non-monos” attacks on “monos” are unwarranted – but be aware that the attacks go both ways, as evidenced by nothing more than this stream…
L.
“However, if you’re less careful, more “carefree,” and less selective in who your partner is and the level of trust and commitment you have with that partner, your likelihood of seroconversion is much higher.”
I never contested this – and I don’t think anyone would seriously do (although your words are vague enough to possibly cast too wide a net.)
Nope – I said, and maintain, that your post sounded uncannily like B16-thought, provided one did the search-and-replace I suggested.
What particularly irks me is the line suggesting that even using condoms doesn’t protect you long-term. If it doesn’t, it can be construed as meaning it increases the risk, compared to monogamy – which is *exactly* what the Pope said en route to Africa last year, and which was promptly debunked by everyone up to the WHO.
Condoms fail, and when they fail they put users at risk? Of course they do, on both counts.
But let’s compare the condom failure rate to the monogamy failure rate. I’ll bet condoms are a fraction of a percent, and, in SF at least, monogamy is apparently at 8%. So, what puts you at more risk?
See, statistics and probabilities can give surprising results (even forgetting that “there are three ways to sin: by action, by omission, and by statistics” :))
L.
(Darn – forgot:)
But what really gets to me anyway, it’s that – in these very times of rising contamination rates you mention yourself – the language you use is one that can make people think condoms aren’t safe. Your argument on them not being safe because some don’t use condoms when getting/giving head is… baffling.
Is monogamy more desirable? Actually, I think it is, and I’d love to find a guy to be monogamous with. Is it safer? Not at all, as evidenced by behavioral patterns of males in monogamous (gay or straight) relationships, where cheating cannot be followed by PEP or sudden condom use. (The rising rates of infection among monogamous, non-drug-using, straight women infected by cheating partners are a particular concern.)
One could argue that the safest (for there cannot be any absolutely safe) course of action would be a monogamous relationship where condoms are used at all times (and there are couples who do practice that, much to my surprise when I learned about it.)
But, given that men will be men (yes it’s a cliché but sometimes they reflect reality), condoms remain and will remain the safest option for sexually active gay men, and that’s the message we should hammer and hammer and hammer again into every young confused kid who has no idea what lies ahead (and to older people who forget.)
Arguing – even implying, or seeming to imply – that condom use will not protect people long term will *not* ever augment monogamous behaviors, it will simply increase unprotected sex activity patterns.
That’s what irked me.
tofer david
geesh, don’t be so critical that the study was only done in s.f. give them a break, maybe that was all they were capable of completing the study in. by all means replicate in your locale. i am certain one of their conclusions was to repeat the study in another area or on a larger scale. that is the point of research.
eagledancer
In their “Pre-AIDS” book, The Male Couple – How Relationships Develop, David P. McWhirter and his long term partner, Andrew M. Mattison (I did the blessing ceremony for their 20th anniversary) looked at over 100 male couples in southern California. What they found was the longer a couple was together, the more likely they were to have a “secondary” or “tertiary” partnership, with the original/main partner referred to as their “Primary.” This particularly played out after ten years. In my own Inter-racial, Same-Sex Couples research, I found similar experiences they reported. Having “rules” appears to be much more important than what the “rules” actually are. In other words, the fact a couple has the communication skills to negotiate how their relationship will function seems to be a real key. A couple that does not have the skills to negotiate often end up feeling as though someone has “cheated.” The other thing that really isn’t covered in the Queerty article is the fact different gay couples may define “monogamous” differently than their peers. For example, it’s not uncommon for a couple to consider themselves “monogamous” if they have a 3-way, adding the “third” into their mutual sexual experience. I’ll also mention McWhirter and Mattison preferred the term “monandrous,” (meaning “one man”) since “monogamous” suggests “one woman.”
Lakas
i though “open relationship” is the default setting for all gay male relationships… why are we discussing this?
Johnny
Men are whores who get bored and want someone new to screw. They make rules because they don’t want to hurt their partner, but they also don’t want to try and be faithful. Having rules makes them feel like they aren’t cheating if they have permission. I hate when some people act like open relationships are a staple of the gay community when really they have nothing to do with being gay and everything to do with the fact we’re men. Did you ever notice they don’t do these surveys with lesbians? Hmm, I wonder why?
eagledancer
Well, actually, lesbians are studied. In the raw data I took from the 20,000 American Couples studies from Swartz and Blumstein,(which included gay couples, lesbian couples, het married couples, and het co-habitating couples) the truth is, Americans tend to do “serial” monogamy–so even those right-wing straight republicans who toot their own horn about being “faithful” are often on their 3rd of 4th wife. I found it interesting that in the research, a number of lesbians in couples also did duty as commercial sex workers with men.
Fitz
When people keep bringing up HIV seroconversion, it makes me wonder if their motivation for monogamy is really a loving commitment to one-spouse sex, or just a fear reaction from the boogieman. If there were no HIV, would you be ho’ing it up all over town? If so, your commitment to your relationship seems FAR less genuine to me than even the most open of open relationships.
If there is anything being a homo has taught me it is that it is dangerous and stupid to try to project my definitions of love and relationship onto someone else’s life.
Do what you need to do.
Thomas
So, what this says is, that when it comes to extracurriculars, 8% believe in “don’t ask, don’t tell.”
Michael
@eagledancer: Interesting study, doc. On that third party to the two party couple angle, I’d suggest finding favor by renaming this to a “man-among-us” relationship.
Charles
I think you could have found a better picture for this story. The guy in the middle looks like he’s getting ready to throw-up.
ragdo
What about threesomes? i would never have an open relationship where my BF could go out and have sex with other men on his own, but occasionally we’ll do it together. very occasionally, so I wouldn’t consider that an open relationship, more that we like to have fun with a 3rd once in a while (i’m talking 1/year or less). Might be a good solution, you still get your kicks with a different man, but you can know/trust what your partner is doing because you’re right there taking part…
eagledancer
@Michael:
Well, in the McWhirter/Mattison “model” they looked at how male couples tend to “evolve” over a long-term relationship. Remember, this was “Pre-AIDS” so there wasn’t the same “motivation” to stay in a relationship (as a protection against sero-conversion) as some of the earlier posters suggest there is now. In fact, given the lack of civil unions/domestic partnerships in that time period, there was much less support to stay together for extended periods of time.
In both their research and mine, we would not include couples who had not been together less than one year. In my own study, the couples (gay/lesbian) had been together an average of 3-7 years. One couple had been together for 37 years.
Anyway—a “man among us” as you so poetically put it—tended to be more characteristic of an “early” relationship, where a greater importance seemed to be placed statistically (i.e., there will always be couples of any sexuality who are cemented into a monogamous/monandrous orientation, just as there are couples of any sexuality who function well in a polyandrous/polygamous situation) on younger couples (both those that are in their early 20’s as well as having been together less than 5 years—(although Lesbians “bond” differently on some levels than Gay men do-esp. in terms of sharing finances). These younger couples are more likely to focus on the “white picket fence” ideal—the SUV in the driveway parked next to the yellow lab and “tight” monogamy/monandry.
The “man among us” is then a frequent “compromise” to having an “open” relationship. W&M also found that an age difference between the two primary partners seems to support them staying together. As their relationship continues through the years, they often choose to assign alternative “responsibilities/roles” to the Secondary and Tertiary partners. So—instead of having 3, 4, or more-ways, they will demonstrate a strong sexual and emotional commitment to the Primary partner. The Secondary partner takes a status of “boyfriend” in the sense of taking a vacation together with the Primary Partner to whom he is Secondary, or going out to dinner or the ballet.
It should be understood the Primary Partners are very much aware of the Secondary partners, and often have initial veto authority. This type of arrangement also allows certain mutual interests to be engaged in that may not be possible with the two Primary Partners. This might be about going to the opera, or fisting—something you reserve for the Secondary Partner, but not something the Primary Partners choose to do together.
This reflects the “Poly” attitude that one single partner isn’t able to provide for all aspects of oneself across a lifetime. The Tertiary Partner is closer to a “trick” where there can be sexual expression, but not a strong emotional relationship, or a commitment. It’s also not unusual for the two Primary Partners to go on a vacation with their two Secondary Partners. To make it more interesting, “Secondary” and “Tertiary” are really about a type of classification, not a “number”—just so, a Primary Partner might have more than one Secondary Partner, and more than one Tertiary Partner.
PopSnap
Maybe I’m the stupid one because I still believe in true love, but if my hypothetical partner asked for an open relationship or whatever, I would assume that I was not enough for him and break it off.
How can anyone deal with that? I’d be paranoid that my man would leave me for somebody else if I allowed him to fuck guys on the side that weren’t me. I’ve been cheated on before- my then boyfriend and my “straight” friend since childhood- and I know how much that hurts. I would never take that chance.
So, yep: I’m a silly gay guy who likes traditional relationships and still thinks that love exists. I just hope that I don’t turn into a relic of a long-gone era because I can’t even legally drink yet.
nycguy
after 5 years with my bf he had a slip up,,,he was out of town working for 3 months and took a guy home one night after a party a had sex with him….with a condom. Because we have good and honest communication about sex….we can talk about guys we think are hot etc. he tearfully confessed to his mistake….we had 6 months of sex with condoms and testing to ensure our safety. And have been together very happily for an additional 5 years now….10+ total.
I think his understanding and comfort level within our relationship allowed him the confidence to tell me the truth and I am grateful for that.
We are a couple who does occasionally take home a 3rd for fun together(the thought that once you are partnered you become some sort of eunuch to the rest of the population is crazy to us). And the fact that we can talk about issues like this may have saved my life back then, who knows, but it actually makes me trust my partner more knowing he can tell me if a “mistake” like the one 5 years ago ever happens again I will know and we can protect each other.
jason
How sad to see these “open agreements”. They’re just digusting excuses to fuck around. An open relationship isn’t a relationship at all. It’s a sinking ship, not a relationship.
Charles
45% had monogamous agreements? That’s it? Probably not a good idea to leak this study out to defense of family peeps.
eagledancer
@PopSnap: With all due respect, the research that’s been done is NOT about dismissing the white picket fence “dream” as being unobtainable:
A) Gay men are certainly capable of being monandrous. Many are. One of the things I’ve learned as a researcher is that it’s “hard” to find role models of men (or women) who stay together in long-term relationships that aren’t “open” because we don’t tend to see them. They don’t often frequent gay bars. They often support the gay community by writing a check, rather than volunteering. They socialize with others like themselves, so they’re the group you don’t tend to notice at a restaurant, as they are quietly eating. They rotate going from their homes to that of other same-sex couples. If you yourself are not in a monandrous, same-sex relationship, you simply don’t get invited to their functions. You go to a gay bar and surprise–only notice a lot of single gay men looking to hook up, rather than looking for an engagement ring. I feel it was a huge blessing for me to do my research with Inter-Racial Same-Sex couples because I not only got to see couples who weren’t in crisis (people don’t tend to see a Family Therapist because things are going great in their relationship) but who genuinely and affectionately loved one another. My research assistant (a White Lesbian) and I were in their living rooms doing the interviews.
B) As a Family Therapist, my official training was based on a “gold standard” of a couple being together until one or both die, and being monogamous—and NOT monandrous, because the basic training in my time was NOT about same-sex couples. My eyes were opened when I was presenting at an international conference in Amsterdam, and some representatives from a G/L group confronted another presenter that they weren’t always seeking to duplicate heterosexual “norms” of marriage, but wanted options of alternative relationships. When I returned to the States, it was realizing there was a lot more to life than my training indicated—no matter what your sexual orientation might be. It also taught me not to try to “judge” the relationships of others—if they were happy and healthy. Right now in the United States, about half of all heterosexual marriages end in divorce, and over 40% of children are born to a mother who isn’t married. That’s’ just the reality.
C) My training also taught me to immediately discover what sort of specific role models a couple had available. The younger the individuals within a couple (in my clinical practice, I wasn’t normally seeing individuals—I was seeing families and couples), the more likely the primary models they had were their own parents/family of origin. That means the younger the couple—straight or gay—the more likely they had a monogamous model (and again—I stress monogamous–as opposed to monandrous), because most gay individuals don’t grow up parented by same-sex couples. Again, while there are certainly exceptions, in my professional and personal experience, even when a young person had a gay or lesbian parent, during their “formative” years before puberty, their gay or lesbian parent tended to be closeted, and still in a “sham” or unhappy male/female marriage, or recently divorced, and not yet ready for a same-sex relationship. The older the individual, the more likely he or she has been exposed to what other options might be available.
D) There’s a difference between “real” and “ideal.” For many reared in general American culture, the “ideal” is the white picket fence/monogamous-monandrous –“till death do you part” model. Then there’s the “real” relationship you might find yourself experiencing, where you suddenly realize there’s no “owner’s manual” to help you through segments of life no one has modeled for you. For some—not all—their reality can include alternative models. If your priority of a monogamous/monandrous relationship is focused on fear—where you want to cocoon yourself away from the outside world because you’re afraid your partner will choose someone “out there” over you, your relationship is probably not in the healthiest of states. I’ve had to treat a lot of abusive heterosexual couples where the husband/boyfriend forced his wife/girlfriend to cut off friendships and relatives because these women “might” meet someone they preferred to the boyfriend/husband. In a secure relationship, the thought your partner is going to immediately dump you for someone else really isn’t the first thought of the morning. McWhirter and Mattison’s research on Male Couples was looking at men who had been together at least a year (and almost all of the couples had been together a lot longer than a year), and were satisfied with their partners. When some of these couples “opened” up their relationship, it wasn’t to dump their partners—it was seeking alternatives to keep their primary relationship happy and strong. And again—not all male couples opened up their relationships or did 3-ways/man among men stuff.
E) The American Couples study of 20,000 couples taught us that statistically speaking, the longer a couple stayed together, the less sex they tended to have with one another. In my own Inter-Racial Same-Sex study, I noted with interest that no matter what actual sexual behavior people had as a couple (i.e., not all gay men have anal sex)—gay men also tended to masturbate both mutually and individually. According to the research, over time, gay couples will tend to have more sex with each other in a given period of time than their heterosexual peers, but both same-sex and heterosexual couples will notice their sexual behavior will tend to fall off the longer they are together. For that reason, keeping their (gay or straight) sex life alive and happy may require work and investment. For some that will include additional partners—for others it may include such things as sex toys and role playing within a monandrous/monogamous relationship.
boredwell
My relationships could be characterized as monandrous. But neither I nor my partners were ever wholly sexually monogamous. Though by the same token we were not serially promiscuous either. “Significant other” and total sexual exclusivity don’t have to go hand-in-hand. Shared values, reciprocity and willingness to mutually understand one another is what makes a relationship significant. And meaningful. I think.
eagledancer
@boredwell:
Yes–this was definitely the conclusion of McWhirter and Mattison’s research. I should point out that many couples of any sexual orientation may remain together even though direct sexuality is no longer part of their relationship because the other (emotional/comfort/financial) aspects are valued enough to negate “starting over” with a new relationship.
Absurdity
@Jollysocks: I agree this could be a real trouble maker for many relationships and here’s how it starts falling apart.
The agreement is put in place that they are going to have an open relationship whether they decide that it’s in the best interest to tell about the event or not doesn’t really matter.
If they decide to share the event and one partner feels that the other is getting more action jealousy will become an issue. If they are both getting the same amount of outside action but find out they no longer are getting much action between themselves then what’s the point? Just financial security, friendship?? There may be a few instances where things are perfectly balanced but I got to believe they’d be few and far between especially if one partner is the break winner and the other is the home maker. I think we know who’s going to be getting laid the most. And then you have anger and jealousy that one is off working while all the other is doing is fucking with anything that they can drag home and they’re going to feel used.
If they decide to not tell each other but keep it private then suspicion will arise when routines change even if nothing has occurred and even though they both agreed there may be an element of feeling pushed into something they really don’t want but agree only because “it will be only once in a while” but what becomes once in a while becomes once a week and now the situation has changed their relationship and scarred it with a trust and perhaps a jealousy issue. And again as in the prior case if one partner is working harder than the other there will be all types of suspicions mounting (no pun intended).
If they agree to only do it when both of them are together I would imagine that to be the worst. And I’m not speaking from experience but I would suspect that as is typical in gay culture all partners will be assessed as to who finds who more desirable and there will be a focus on that person and it may not be reciprocal in nature upsetting the person that thought there was some connection and now their partner is feeling happy because they are getting all the attention. Or perhaps the attention is all going to the new guy which I would expect to occur a good bit because it’s the new toy and although everyone is satisfied at the moment I got to believe that once the menage has disbanded that someone is going to be feeling like they could be doing a little better (the grass is always greener on the other side). And what happens when the 3rd guy shows up at the front door without an invite and they ask if their partner is home? It won’t be good.
If you think about even how upset some people get when their partner even looks off in another direction, I just don’t see this having a good outcome. And they can put all the bells and whistles on it and talk it up and say that it increases honesty (well it only increases it if it wasn’t there to begin with), definitely won’t help give a feeling of security in the relationship. And then there will be the day when someone breaks the rules and comes home and says I had a chance to hookup with this really hot guy and I figured you wouldn’t mind because we’re already in kind of an open relationship; I would imagine it’d gonna go over like a lead balloon.
The few people I knew that were in open relationship really didn’t seem to have much of a relationship when they were together. They usually weren’t together. It was like if one knew the other was on their way home then they were heading out or when they had to be together like at a party or something they were like just roommates as opposed to lovers.
I don’t want to ascribe to marriage either. I think marriage is a failed institution and considering it was initially created with the intent of keeping property within a family it really had nothing to do with emotional connections. In fact most marriages were arranged to increase family wealth. I don’t understand the drive in the gay community for marriage rights. To me it would seem that the elimination of marriage which gives special rights and privileges to a certain few should be abolished under the equal rights protection of the constitution and one live with who they want and dissolve that when it’s time. If we lived in a more social society then we wouldn’t need marriage as a way of passing on health care coverage, life insurance etc because there wouldn’t be a need for things of that type but since we don’t then rights could be assigned by going to a post office and having both parties sign a card or something to that effect. And in order to abolish rights you go back and as long as one person removes their signature it’s null and void.
As with anything the media has influenced our thoughts in this area because their is so much porn that have orgies and 3-ways and 4-ways and on and on and they show it as it’s totally without any sense of emotion other than raw love. But the beauty of film is that you can edit out the ugly stuff; in life you cannot. And just like the ads for HIV meds they make it appear as if it’s all just a wonderful walk on the beach.
Just some thoughts.
ewe
I don’t know about everyone else but i am not the least bit interested in emulating heterosexual norms and i have no reason to have to defend myself or others for being gay. Yes folks, gay people are very different from straight people and i think it is GRAND. Let’s not fall victim to anyone by feeling we have to change ourselves into a morphed carbon copy of heterosexual hyprocrites in any way. Fuck em. I am not like a straight person because i am not a straight person. I am and always have been a gay person and i am better in so very many ways. Oh yes it’t true. We are. (Snap. Click. Move aside.)
Get some class!
All this threesome talk is revolting. I’ve never understood how some people are so sex-crazed that they feel the need to bring in a third person – especially when they’re already in a “relationship” (I wouldn’t even call it a relationship though if you’re doing shit like that). Gross. What happend to true love and being with one special person? Learn some self-control and respect your body.
Luis
I have been with many couples, and I’d like to think of myself as a good third, but I never loose perspective on where my place is in that sandwhich..
I decided not to do it anymore, after I realized that three is not an even number, i always left and went home by myself.
Now, today i think that open relationships are just the dying stage of the relationship and since the partners are not ready to let go, they go into this stage, usually to end up breaking up anyway at later time..
I think that in our comunity, we tend to romanticize almost everything, drug use, promiscuity, intimacy issues, internalized homphobia, instead of facing issues frankly and direct.
Open relationships never works…
eagledancer
Darling Luis–I wish you only the best and happiness–but the fact you haven’t had a good experience with open relationships, doesn’t mean others haven’t, or that “open relationships don’t work.”
For some–they do, or that’s what the evidence shows.
As a family therapist, here’s one of the basics I’ve been taught: If a person has a bad experience, then it’s possible–shame one the person who treated this person badly.
But–if the person comes to you and says, “Boo hoo, I’ve been in three different relationships where my partner treats me badly exactly the way the other two have mistreated me…”–well, at that point you back off and ask, “Is this patient choosing to be in a specific type of relationship that results in unhappiness?” If that’s the case then the therapy gets to focus on how to help the patient identify more compatable and supportive partners. It’s not to teach everybody else to be the partner to best match a particular individual.
Clint
Open relationships can have some level of satisfaction for people but it is important to think beyond desire. If one is going to there is not much anyone can do about it but please be careful, use protection! It is one thing to be in a monogamous relationship and have sex unprotected but when you are in a open relationship you need to think about all the people you could be affecting and infecting. Getting tested for STDs is a must for all sexually active people. When you are in a open relationship it is important to do so every 3-6 months at least depending on how many people you have sex with and the time periods between each encounter. Within the past year I met an individual whom I became friends with that told me many things about himself since we became friends. The info that he has told me that relates to this article is: He is in his 60’s (age probably does not matter but FYI), expressed having HIV+ for around 20 years, and has been in a few relationships since he has known about his HIV+ status. He expressed that his current relationship he is in has lasted for about 6 years and they are in a OPEN RELATIONSHIP. Inside I was in pain for hearing this information. Other conversations led to him telling me that he does NOT use protection but the pull out method before he ejaculates. I told him that there is still pre-cum and how that is a dangerous practice. He told me that he does tell his partners about his HIV+ status and how many of them still have sex with him…I then expressed that I felt it was his responsibility due to being the one with HIV+ to not even give people the option of having sexual relations with him but to me in a Monogamous relationship, not only because of the way I feel about what a relationship should be, but because of his HIV+ status or any other STD someone has. Do to some other information he decided to share with me, the path my own personal life was going, how his boundaries seemed to me careless, and how he was verbally disrespectful at times about me and other people, and the last conversation I had with this individual being a continual frustrating experience, I have since not had contact with him but place him in my prayers almost daily*** I have never been friends with someone with HIV before this individual and I know there are many Respectful people with HIV that have Good Boundaries but sadly this individual, even with all of the good things he did share with me about his life, had some very disheartening ways he has and still continues to live his life…Please be careful out in this World! This is not only for you but for me as well…We will continue to change let us hope we change toward being a better Person in this World…My prayers for the World in making Love Shine Through***
Shannon1981
Nothing wrong with open relationships if all parties involved are educated and informed about the situation as well as the risks. Just a taboo in a society that values monogamy, nothing more.
Clint
@Shannon1981: My comment was just above yours…Nothing wrong with open relationships if all parties involved are educated and informed about the situation as well as the risks is definitely a view point…To say there is nothing wrong with it is your view point and some others for sure…Be careful about saying Nothing wrong even when someone is educated and well aware of the risks because even those choices can still leave people broken as We do not always think things through as much as we should and some people’s boundaries are weak. I have not been a perfect person in life, no one that I know has, but I do a pretty good job admitting at least to my self when I have made bad choices…Sometimes our actions are impulse control problems…Educating people on Healthy Mind, Healthy Body, and Healthy Spirit is Important***I would be careful with saying Nothing is wrong with something even if everyone is aware of everything that is going on, because even then it may not be a Healthy and Wise Choice…Right and Wrong are subjective for sure but they go further for me anyway than just honesty there is also integrity, values, and loving someone so much that you do not make careless decisions!
Reflection, Openness, Change…
Shannon1981
@Clint: Ok I can appreciate that, but, what is wrong with an open relationship as opposed to the more socially acceptable monogamous one?
And bear in mind, this is coming from me, someone who is admittedly far too selfish to share my lovers, ever. I’d never do it, but why should I frown upon others doing it?
Clint
@Shannon1981: To me if you read my original post above your original post that is enough to frown. Maybe not at all open relationships because I understand each to their own. In the particular case that I was discussing it was about a person I met this past year who, not only was in an open relationship and yes told people pretty much everything about himself, from what he told me which ended up being that: He is HIV+ and does not use protection because he “uses the pull out method”. To me he became very arrogant and selfish person as I began to know him. There are good qualities about this person but when he started telling me this information, and the way he told me, I became very frustrated with his type of reasoning and personality. This is a person who also drinks daily, has parties at his house at least 1x a week and just does not seem to get or maybe he just does not care how he affects people at least not enough by what he has told me. We all have things to improve upon in our lives but when you tell someone information about yourself that is obviously problematic behavior (at least to me) and then have excuses about why you live that way and don’t admit your problems then that is really sad and discouraging to hear. All I can do is pray for him that he will get a clue and stop doing what he is doing. Open relationships in themselves are a lifestyle certain people live, but with that comes many risks along with the pleasure some people may get out of them but when you know you are HIV+ or any other STD you should not want to be in an open relationship because you would not want to give or even risk at giving another person something that you have that can hurt them. The same goes when you have a cold, you try to be more careful on your interactions with others so they hopefully will not get a cold. At least this guy I knew tells his partners he has HIV+ but to me that is not enough, he needs to stay monogamous. I also feel that everyone should get checked for an STD some time in their lives if they are sexually active and if someone has multiple partners they should get checked at least yearly if not every 3-6 months. So many people are getting sick and dying and since we live in such an open society with what we are able to do in comparison to some other countries it is a way of having some boundaries we set up for ourselves to respect what we have here in the U.S. I am happy you with wanting to be monogamous yourself and hope life is well for you and your partner. This is good that we can share our viewpoints even if we have different ideas because then we can learn about other ways of thinking. With this we will grow into more knowledgeable people with a well-rounded perspective! Through the experiences I have develops myself in a direction that may or may not be acceptable to some but it is who I am. Take care and hope you have a good day:)