It’s not wrong to be attracted to masculine people more than to feminine people, but it is wrong to be a prick about that preference.
So say many commenters in Reddit’s r/gay forum, who recently gave counsel to someone wondering if being masc-attracted was a problem.
“I see that a lot of guys put ‘masc4masc’ and ‘no femmes’ in their Grindr profiles, and a lot of my gay friends have talked about how offensive this is,” the original poster explained. “I do feel like when dating, I’m more attracted to a guy with a deeper voice, strong jaw, taller [stature], all ‘masculine’ traits. But at times I feel like I’m being shallow for liking this mostly and like I’m discriminating against more femme gays.”
He went on: “If I were to explain why, I’d say it’s because I think masculine energy represents a balance to me. I lean more towards having a feminine energy, so I think I’m more nurturing, sensitive, [and] receptive, and a partner to me ideally should complement these traits. What do you guys think?”
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Related: Gay guys sound off on pressure to act masculine
In a popular but since-deleted comment, one person wrote, “There is absolutely nothing wrong with it as long as you’re respectful to people you’re not attracted to.”
“This,” another user responded. “Femme guys are a huge turn-off for me sexually. But they’re still people, and I encourage everyone to be who they are. Attraction is subjective.”
“Well said!” a third user wrote in reference to the first comment. “We like what we like, doesn’t mean we gotta be disrespectful.”
“Our community as a whole needs more of this,” a fourth user chimed in.”
In another popular comment, a Reddit user said that the only discrimination at play “is that sometimes our preferences can be the result of internalized bias that cause us to treat other gays unkindly and homophobically”
Another user wondered if misogyny is to blame. “When one thinks of misogyny, it by definition is ‘dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.’ If we look at this definition as not only those things against women but also anything that resembles ‘femininity,’ that would provide one answer as to why some people feel this way,” that user observed. “Even in being gay, the patriarchy can still wreak havoc and cause division.”
Related: Gay men, it’s time to get over your insecurity issues with feminine guys, blogger says
Other commenters suggested keeping one’s options open. Take the fella who said that he always liked masculine men and would tend to be more feminine when he was around him. But he ended up with a more feminine guy and now, 42 years later, they’ve both gotten more masculine. “Go figure,” that commenter added.
Another person wrote, “Honestly, if a guy ticks all your other boxes and just happens to be less masculine, [it] doesn’t hurt to go on one date. Even if no sparks fly by the end, there’s always a chance that someone not exactly what you are looking for ends up doing it for you.”
A different comment on the thread summed up the conversation neatly: “We like what we like. Don’t beat yourself up over it, but keep an open mind (‘cause attraction is wacky, and you never know who you might meet), and don’t be mean to guys who aren’t your type who approach you.”
Or even more succinctly: “You like what you like, and as long as you’re respectful to others, then there’s nothing wrong with that.”
loren_1955
Being very in touch with my masculine and feminine side, I thrill equally with baking home made bread, chopping wood, designing quilts, doing car maintenance and DIY house projects, etc. Having been hetero married for 27 years in a toxic relationship, the last thing I want in my life is another woman, a woman wannabe, or a person who seems to thrive acting like a woman or worse hyper-femininity. The straight world operates all the time with dating and relationship preferences and we don’t condemn them. Yet, the gay community, again, has their snippet fits because gays, being human like straights, have preferences as well. I totally agree that we can be far less rude about it, on the other hand, we can also be far less sensitive to it as well.
SDR94103
stop trying to feminize masculine men.
Josh in OR
Stop shitting on femme men by pretending that a man exhibiting ‘feminine’ qualities make them ‘less’ of a man…when that’s not empirical fact, just your own prejudices in action!
Cam
Oh look, the same right wing troll account that defends anti-LGBTQ bigots doesn’t like femme guys.
What a shock.
dbmcvey
So, you missed the part about not being a prick?
Man About Town
This lunacy is never gonna stop, is it! Anyone who finds it “offensive” or “discriminating” for people to simply respond to their individual tastes belongs, as Archie Bunker once said about his meathead son-in-law, in a rubber room!
dbmcvey
Read the article. Just don’t be a jerk about it.
bachy
The Sexual Revolution, the Women’s Movement and the Gay Movement all contributed to a loosening of the restrictive masculine/feminine binaries of the previous decades. Women began to feel free to exhibit more traditionally “masculine” traits like independence, leadership and assertiveness, while men came to feel free to present more traditionally “feminine” traits like sensitivity, gentleness and empathy. Intelligent people strove to become more well-rounded, and I continue to believe this is a good thing.
But it seems these days that the conservative agenda – and the transgender movement – are attempting to direct us backward into a strict masculine/feminine binary once again. Gender extremism is regressive. It is not a forward-thinking trend.
monty clift
I don’t see what trans have to do with this? Unless it’s trans bothering gay men on Grindr, they are not a part of this conversation.
bachy
I am only attempting to uncover some of the larger ideological trends that have resulted in hyperfocus, amplification and melodrama around masculinity and femininity in contemporary gay culture.
Den
Way back when (the pre feminist days, and pre gay lib days) there were just as many femme men as there are now. In fact, the whole butch femme thing was way more prevalent in the days before the LGBT movement. Where do you suppose those old gay stereotypes originated? The did not originate in the 1970’s as the gay movement began to spread rapidly.
JTinToronto
You know sometimes it is just about saving time. If I put masc4masc in a profile it’s because I am looking for masculine men, it is not a comment or meant to being disparaging to femme guys. It is true, it is direct, and it saves me having to turn down femme guys who hit on me. If that makes me a terrible person I can handle that.
preppyesque
What’s the big deal? I’ve been with both, and appreciate the hardness of masc men as well as the softness of femme men (many times at the same time as the third wheel for a couple). Strict roles are so boring. Why is it that as a community we ADORE women who show a hard, typically masculine side (hello Madonna), but reject a man who is not afraid to show sensitivity and be in touch with their feminine side? So hypocritical. I myself have always felt in the middle. I am agressive and dominant AF, yet am not afraid to embrace some feminine stuff. As they say, there is a “lid for every pot”, so why not let people just be themselves?
Archie
Being mean is one of the great pleasures of life.
Josh in OR
Being attracted to exclusively ‘masc’ presenting men isn’t toxic.
Denigrating, belittling, and dehumanizing anyone who doesn’t fit into your narrow definition of ‘masc’ IS toxic. Shitting on ‘femme’ guys and drag queens for not fitting into YOUR definition of ‘masc’ attractiveness IS toxic.
This…isn’t hard.
Cam
Hot is hot. If somebody is attractive in a way that is appealing and has a nice personality to go with it, they can be femme or Butch and it isn’t going to matter.
Den
You left out the all important “to me”. It is not going to matter to you. It is quite likely to matter to others in terms of sexual attractiveness and personal interest. Hot is hot only if it intersects with what your definition of hot is, and that is complex and varied from person to parson.
A good example is painted nails, regardless of what a man looks like or how he acts if his nails are painted I will not have any sexual interest in him at all. I find it similarly jarring in women, it is just ugly. I’m not going to treat them any differently on most levels of interaction, but would decline any sexual advances if they are gay and flirt.
Sexual attraction is by nature superficial, and to argue it is not is strange to me. Personal interaction on any other level however should depend on who a person is as opposed to their physical appearance or choices of ornamentation.
And for those who argue that not playing with feminine men is somehow internalized homophobia (as stated above), is not playing with women somehow misogyne?
dbmcvey
Hey Den, I’ve known some very masculine men who paint their nails. Especially younger ones. But, you know what, I’m fine with you staying away from them.