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U Of Pitt Flushes Plan To Allow Trans Students To Use Bathroom Of Choice

If you’re a transgender student at the University of Pittsburgh and you gotta “go”, you’re either going to have to hold it in or find a Starbucks: Pitt administrators have rejected a recommendation by the Anti-Discriminatory Policies Committee (ADPC) to allow students to occupy bathrooms based on their gender identity.

Pittsburgh city law forbids discrimination on the basis of gender identity or expression but, on March 20, the school announced it was sticking to gender-policed toilets. Unsurprisingly, activists are pissed:

“The university is ignoring their equal access statement by actively discriminating against and creating a hostile environment for transgender students,” Pennsylvania Student Equality Coalition Deputy Director and Pitt student Joy Horner said. “We call on the University to redact this medieval policy—to force transgender students to provide a birth certificate to use the bathroom. We must work on improving the campus for transgender students by adding trans-inclusive policies and providing gender-neutral bathrooms and housing.”

The University of Pennsylvania, on the other hand, has tackled the problem by increasing the number of gender-neutral bathrooms. We’re glad at least administrators at Penn are doing their duty.

By:           Dan Avery
On:           Apr 6, 2012
Tagged: , ,

  • 49 Comments
    • Sweetbrandigirl2004
      Sweetbrandigirl2004

      Sounds like a fair trade off to me to provide gender neutral bathrooms segrate the transgender
      students who have ZERO intentions of actually changing genders or who wants surgery but haven’t had sex changing surgery yet The Transgender students have to realize they aren’t the only one’s who’s opinions or feelings must be taken into account. Some people are uncomfortable having someone of the opposite gender using the same restroom.

      Apr 6, 2012 at 6:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GBro
      GBro

      @Sweetbrandigirl2004: Honey, you may be transphobic, but it would help everyone here if you were a little less phobic about punctuation. Your argument holds about the same weight, heft, and girth as the arguments against DADT repeal that predicted all the foul-play hijinx of gays in the shower rooms.

      Now, I’m not a teachable-moments kind of guy, but before you type another string of unpunctuated accusations, you may want to educate yourself a little about trans people. Especially that what is between a person’s legs is their own business, and you better be asking politely about preferred pronouns. You may want to rethink your use of “segrate” as potentially inflammatory, as well.

      That said, this policy is atrocious, cruel, and unlikely to be enforced except when it is blatantly discriminatory.

      Apr 6, 2012 at 7:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andy
      Andy

      @Sweetbrandigirl2004: I’m not “comfortable” with people of different races in my bathroom either. Bring back the white/colored facilities!

      Apr 6, 2012 at 7:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • cynthialee
      cynthialee

      Brandy,
      I see you are still posting transphobic tripe on the internet.
      What is it you have against pre op transwomen? Not everyone is in a privilaged position to be able to afford SRS like you did.

      Apr 6, 2012 at 9:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • suzyq
      suzyq

      its cool if you’re trans, but i don’t want to share the restroom with someone who has a penis, regardless of their gender identity

      Apr 6, 2012 at 9:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Laurel
      Laurel

      I am biologically a woman, and identify with my birth sex. I was recently in a restroom at an airport. Having just gotten off a flight I was tired and a bit disoriented. Apparently so was the gentleman who accidently entered the same restroom. He used the toilet and came out of a stall as I was washing my hands. He was greatly embarassed by his mistake and although I felt bad for him, I hardly would have noticed if he hadn’t said something. He came in, went in a stall, did his business, and left. Just like me. Penis or no penis, he just had to go. I have also been in a restroom where I was, I think, the only biologically female woman. Although I found it humorous, I did not think of it as being in a restroom full of “guys,” or “penis owners,” what is between their legs is only my business if we are being intimate. I had a friend in high school who was born genetically male but dressed and identified as a woman. I defended her right to use the woman’s restroom. After all, why shouldn’t she? I suppose I can understand some women’s trepidation of feeling vunerable around penises especially if they have an unfortunte history of abuse, but that’s where gender neutral bathrooms come in. You cannot satisfy the comfort level of everyone in this world. It’s just not going to happen. You can do your best to be as open and non-discriminatory as possible.

      Apr 6, 2012 at 10:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • David
      David

      Unisex bathrooms are pointless, yet trans people like to pretend that they need them when they should just be going into either the men’s room or women’s room. They are also a major reason why trans people flipped out and made sure that ENDA was not passed when bisexuals, gays, and lesbians had and have been trying for decades to get it passed and it was very close to passing and Trans people had to come in and make sure the bill was not passed at all.

      Apr 6, 2012 at 11:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • not blind
      not blind

      The problem with allowing penised people in the women’s restroom is that not all people who claim to be transgender are. They could just as easily be male voyeurs who are using the transgender label to spy on women. Accusing people of “transphobia” if they want to be safe and private in the restroom, isn’t a good argument. Women, and all people, have the right to safety and privacy. Bathrooms are a zero sum area. If people with penises have access to women’s restrooms, that makes it less safe for women. I’m a woman, and if transgenders don’t care about my rights, I don’t care about theirs.

      Apr 7, 2012 at 1:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • J Stratford
      J Stratford

      Okay so I’m new to the Trans issue. All I know is they hate Drag queens, based on what they have been saying about commercials of men dressed as women who pee on urinals. I also see a lot of articles about how they view themselves as “straight” post operation and hence “better” than the rest of the LGBTIAQ.

      What’s the big deal? If the school has no budget for it, go to either the men or women’s rest room. There’s only 10% of us LGBTIAQ folks, and where we pee is not our biggest battle. The school should be able to assign each of the trans students to the male or female bathroom they choose. And they cant “switch” after they choose. Simple really. Nothing earth shattering.

      Let’s not blwo this thing out of proportion though. Not everyone can be accomodated. Let’s face it, there is an economic/cost side to demanding your own bathroom.

      Apr 7, 2012 at 1:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bianca Lynne
      Bianca Lynne

      @not blind: You do realize that “people with penises” currently have access to every bathroom in the world right now – this very second? That figure with the skirt on the door does not posses magic powers and door open for men also.

      Kindly point out any case where a man or a trans woman has acted in a criminal manner in a law or policy to claim a right to be in the restroom due to an existing gender identity law or policy.

      @David – You do know that 2007 ENDA would not have been signed. One George Bush already said he would veto it if it passed and there were not enough votes to override the veto? It would have been a strategic move to hold a fully inclusive law for a vote in that case to see who need targeted for future lobbying efforts. It was the gay-only folks to shot that one and made it harder for future attempts, since we don’t know who is on the fence.

      Apr 7, 2012 at 1:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • not blind
      not blind

      Bianca, I don’t need to cite examples of transgenders causing trouble in women’s restrooms. As a woman, I know all women are afraid of being raped by men. Sex-segregated restrooms give us some protection from this. If you challenge women’s right to feel a bit safer in public, you are gaslighting me and all women. This is the problem with transgender rights. There is no reciprocity. It’s all gaslighting and intimidation. Funny, that…they claim to be women, and yet they don’t have a clue about how real women feel.

      Apr 7, 2012 at 1:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Laurel
      Laurel

      “they claim to be women, and yet they don’t have a clue about how real women feel” – Um, not blind I do hope you don’t believe you speak for all women. You certainly don’t speak for me. How *I* feel is very different than how you seem to feel, and if by “real women” you mean those who were born biologically female, then I qualify. Also, not all transgendered people are men. Should a biologically female woman who identifies as male feel intimidated in a men’s restroom? And, I must disagree that sex-segregated restrooms protect anyone. A person who is determined to be a perpetrator of violence will find a way to do so. Allowing people who happen to have penises into a woman’s restroom does not automatically make them rapists. And if a straight man with a penis wants to dress as a woman in order to be a voyeur in a woman’s restroom, nothing is stopping them now. Nothing. You might as well be afraid that any other woman in the restroom could be a lesbian who wants to see you peeing. It’s possible, it’s not likely, but it could happen. Again, discriminating against some because of your fear of a very small percentage of society is ridiculous. As is your assertion that allowing transgender people into sex-segregated restrooms poses any type of threat of sexual predation. Most rapists are people you know, not some stranger in the restroom. If a stranger does attack you, being in the restroom is not a protection against that attack. Clearly a rapist does not respect “normal” societal boundaries, so the door on the woman’s room would be no exception. I’m sorry, but your argument doesn’t stack up. And if you have no consideration for the rights of transgender people, why should they have any consideration for yours? You sound, to me, like straight men who are homophobic against gay men because, they might flirt with me, or sexually assault me. I don’t want those “perverts” in the bathroom, who knows what they might do…

      Apr 7, 2012 at 4:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sweetbrandigirl2004
      Sweetbrandigirl2004

      @GBro: Dear GBro while its true my punctuation may have been a mess, that isn’t the point of this story or of my post. Likewise I’m quite confident I known far more about the Transgender community then you’ll ever known being a post-op HBS GID diagnosis Transsexual. Also while I agree whats between a persons legs is their business, public bathrooms are segregated by “gender Identities” their segregated by genitals. As for your suggestion that I ask them politely for their gender preference that almost sounds like a threat, so let me assure you I have no need to ask any tranny about their gender preference its quite obvious when a tranny in a dress walks into the ladies room, likewise its quite easy to tell the difference between them and diagnosis transexuals as they carry themselves differently, they dress differently, and most obviously they sound differently.

      @ cynthialee Again you are incorrect I have NO problem with GID diagnosis pre-op transsexual women, I do however have a huge problem with the Transgender mafia whom have highjacked and co-oped the GID diagnosis and GID Transsexuals forcing them under their gender umbrella solely to use them as vilification for their “chosen” lifestyle. Lumping Transsexuals in with the Transgender is like combining blacks and white supremacist in the same group the two may be at odds over race but it’s the only thing they have in common. Likewise Transsexuals and transgender both dress in clothes of the opposite gender but they do it for completely different reason and have nothing else in common. We must keep in mind that for the GID diagnosis Transsexual their gender Identity is in being the women they’ve always known themselves to be and in completing the transitional process, blending back into society and getting on with life is the ultimate goal. This is a huge contrast from the transgender individual who’s gender Identity is in being transgender, they take pride in standing out and not fitting in. They seek to drawn attention to themselves by being loud, wearing clothes not appropriate for their age and with outlandish behavior as we’ve seen in on evening news and in the paper time after time.

      Apr 7, 2012 at 9:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ron
      ron

      I cannot believe it is 2012 and we’re still freaking out about this. What prudes we are! When I went to college at NYU in the mid seventies, the bathrooms were shared by both sexes. Coming from Connecticut, on day 1 this startled me. By day 2 I was over it. It is just so stupid to get so worked up about it. People come into the bathroom, shower, or do their business and leave. No big deal.

      Apr 7, 2012 at 11:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Let's be real
      Let's be real

      I agree with you J Stratford. This is one major reason why the T should be completely separate from BLG. I have friends who are Trans and they agree that Trans people should not be lumped in with bisexuals, gay men, and lesbians 99% of who are not trans at all, and that Trans people’s issues are separate from those of LGBs.

      Ron, NYU is a joke of a school and always has been. BTW these are not dorm bathrooms we’re talking about where you’d shower but public bathrooms.

      Apr 7, 2012 at 1:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kei Yuuki
      Kei Yuuki

      @Sweetbrandigirl2004: I am not aiming just a you, but I believe everyone should learn a little more about Transgendered people. They have no interest in the gender they identify with, be it male to female or female to male. How would you feel if a Strange looking Man showed up with a full beard in your locker room, but was born female? Well That is what this policy enforces. Don’t think whats between the legs has anything to do with the overall appearance. Most of this Pro Gender Bathroom and Locker Room policy is one sided, it is not. Remember, Females also transition into Males. And the Female Community is inviting this. I will not be changing or using the bathroom int eh presence of any person that has a beard on their face. I would would rather have a Hormonal Transitioning MtoF that looks female, with breast with me, then the face of a bearded man with no breast. IF this is denied, you are inviting the opposite Gender into your Locker rooms and Bathrooms….. Do you even realize that??? Outside of this Fear and Scare tactic B.S. thats begin stirred, I encourage you to meet with some, socialize, ask them questions…… You will find Transgendered people are some of the nicest, most gentle people in the world. All Transgendered people want, is to be able to live life as a normal human being. That is it, nothing more. This very issue also applied to my beloved Intersexed brothers and sisters as well. There is more than male and female, when you are genetically neither, you use the restroom you closest associate with. I am also one of these rare and few people. If what is between your legs is so damned important, than answer this, how do you direct a person that has BOTH male AND female reproductive systems, also it being genetically imprinted. How about a person that has a penis, but is XX Chromosome based and is listed as female on the Birth Certificate? Same with a XY male that has Breast and almost no reproductive system at all? or better yet, How about People that have XXY chromosomes, stat of both Female AND Male genetics? How do you direct them. Thee archaic Policies need to die out with the people that created them. Science has won over Social policies. Remember, Science has standards, Social policies do not. Transgendered persons and Intersexed persons are recognized around the world by International Medical Authorities. An Arm Chair Morality Expert can not win that battle….ever!

      Apr 7, 2012 at 3:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Matthew Richards
      Matthew Richards

      “I don’t want women who look different than me or have a different history than me using my bathroom or drinking from the same drinking fountain. Those icky trans people should respect that bigoted women have feelings, too.” Ummm…really? Are we living in the 1950s all over again?

      Apr 7, 2012 at 4:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gauge
      Gauge

      Wow. So many transphobic scumbags here in the LGBT community. Shame on all of you. You should know better.

      Apr 7, 2012 at 5:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kei Yuuki
      Kei Yuuki

      @suzyq: How about a transguy that has a beard and hairy arms and back? But your point, there is no penis, so its okay, RIght? You logic fails you.

      Apr 7, 2012 at 6:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kei Yuuki
      Kei Yuuki

      @not blind: Yet, you have no idea how they feel. Your Logic is a failure. You fail. Let the adults that live in reality speak here. You can go back to lala land, where your bathrooms have magical protections, and guard dog trained to detect penises…. or hell, lack of a penis… Trangendered Females often have no penis, so your point and argument is invalid.

      Apr 7, 2012 at 6:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gauge
      Gauge

      Oh yeah, another thing. Your comfort does NOT trump my safety. Just because you don’t want to share the restroom with someone that might have an “ZOMGPENIS!!” doesn’t mean I should have to put myself in a position where I am FAR more likely to be attacked. Stop acting like children.

      Apr 7, 2012 at 6:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Oh my!
      Oh my!

      Gauge go pop some estrogen or testosterone like candy and realize that most gay men, bisexuals, lesbians, and even straight people who are the Cisgender people who you love to trash and complain about do not care about the issues of Trans people, and we do not want to date or even sleep with Trans people as a novelty. Trans people are highly bi phobic, homo phobic, hetero phobic, and phobic of cisgendered people and Trans people like to pretend that they are and always have been Cisgendered when they are not.

      Apr 7, 2012 at 7:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Poor Trans
      Poor Trans

      Trans people constantly harp on the issue of unisex bathrooms when it’s not a major issue, and the idea that a Trans person will be “attacked” in a bathroom is laughable. All the trans people I’ve met just use the bathroom of the gender that they want to pretend that they are that’s opposite of the one that they were born, even if they will always be genetically and biologically the gender that they were born and not the gender that they transitioned to.

      Apr 7, 2012 at 7:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jade
      Jade

      I couldn’t care less about this issue. This has nothing to do with gay people. It is only covered here because some fools tell us that there is something called LGBT and that gay people are linked to people who want to surgically alter their bodies so as to correct a medical condition. There is no such link and there is no such thing as LGBT.

      Apr 7, 2012 at 8:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Well said Jade
      Well said Jade

      Gauge, quit moaning since you have sand in zir vagina. Right on SuzyQ! Cisgender men don’t want women who like to think of themselves as “men” with vaginas pretending that the dildo they pack in their pants or fake penis and artificial urethra-I’ve seen sites were Trans’men’ write about making fake penises out of objects and dildos so they can pretend to yet fail to pass as cisgendered men who they hate and are jealous of-in the men’s bathroom or locker room either. I agree with Jade and the others who say that the T should be totally separate from the issues and rights of bisexuals, gays, and lesbians since we are not Trans and Trans issues have nothing to do with us or the fight for GLB equality at all and Jade is correct that there’s no link between Trans people and bisexuals, lesbians, or gay men.

      Apr 7, 2012 at 9:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Not to nitpick...
      Not to nitpick...

      Kei Yuuki most Trans females DO have a penis since the full SRS is very expensive and most trans people can’t afford the full SRS, and not everyone that’s MTF even gets full SRS and get willingly castrated and have a sex change operation.

      Apr 7, 2012 at 9:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ZenJos
      ZenJos

      @Well said Jade: I totally agree. And while we’re at it, we should take the B out of LGB because bisexuals don’t face the same kinds of issues that gay men and women do, because they can just as easily date people of the opposite gender and none will be the wiser.

      And hey, let’s get the L out of there too. Everyone knows Lesbians and Gay men have literally NOTHING in common. Their bodies aren’t the same, one group is attracted to women and the other is attracted to men, so clearly the rights of lesbians have no bearing on the rights of gay men.

      And what’s all this fuss about gay men? Men that like other men? THAT SEEMS KINDA WEIRD TO ME and it makes me uncomfortable so we shouldn’t be looking out for their rights either. It’s not like they’re people or anything.

      (tip for the slow: I am being incredibly sarcastic and if you take the T out of LGBT you are no better than the homophobes out there who want to stomp on gay rights everywhere. No better at all.)

      Apr 7, 2012 at 10:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • suzyq
      suzyq

      @Kei Yuuki: I was raped you asshole. Excuse me for being sensitive.

      Apr 8, 2012 at 12:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Anthony
      Anthony

      @Sweetbrandigirl2004: Therein lies the problem, they’re not the opposite gender. A transgender man would use the men’s restroom and a transgender female would use the women’s restroom, which means they wouldn’t be using the opposite restrooms. It’s ridiculous to say that we should “give in” to the intolerant people because they don’t understand what being transgender means.

      “actually changing genders”

      Hon, you can’t change your gender because your gender is what your brain identifies as. Your sex is what is in between your legs and not all trans people feel the need to have to go to such extremes in order to feel comfortable with themselves.

      It’s astonishing how many LGBT men and women still don’t get what it means to be the T in that acronym, and some of the comments on this article are why our community has made little to no progress in the past couple of decades. We all want equality but we don’t want to support and understand where our fellow queer people are coming from. I honestly cannot believe how many people still don’t get the difference between sex and gender. This isn’t hard stuff, in fact it’s basic and common knowledge.

      Apr 8, 2012 at 1:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaye
      Jaye

      @Oh my!: Clearly you haven’t been around many trans people. As a group transgender folk are by far the least phobic of other identity groups. We don’t claim cis folks are transphobic if they don’t want to date us but the ARE transphobic if they reject people simply for being trans and for no other reason.

      Apr 8, 2012 at 3:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lena
      Lena

      @not blind: Transgender women are women, so why wouldn’t they care about this? And this rebuttal is pretty meaningless, considering no such cases have happened in places were people can go to the bathroom corresponding to their gender identity. And lastly, if someone has bad intentions, a simple sign on the bathroom door isn’t going to stop them.

      Apr 8, 2012 at 5:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaye
      Jaye

      The amount of willful ignorance on display in these comments is depressing. Sigh. I wish people would write from a basis research, fact and logic instead of a basis of “ew, I think it’s icky”.

      Apr 8, 2012 at 8:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • James Cleveland
      James Cleveland

      Perhaps we should work towards doing away with this whole gender binary thing, it seems to create far more problems than it’s worth. Let’s just all be *people* who fancy (or don’t fancy) other *people*. If someone wants to have a different biological sex, or wear pretty clothes, that is up to them, but why do we feel such a need to oppress each other into cast-iron groups?

      Apr 8, 2012 at 1:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • antihero
      antihero

      @suzyq So by this logic, I could say that I do not want to share a bathroom with a black person because the times that I have been mugged, it has been by black guys. You can’t excuse sexism due to the actions of one person (or even many people).

      Apr 8, 2012 at 2:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jade
      Jade [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @ZenJos:

      Lesbians, bisexuals and gay men all have one defining characteristic that binds them together into a group that forms a community: they are all, to some degree, homosexual. It is simple. It doesn’t require more than a sentence to explain and define the group. Transgenders, on the other hand, can have any sexual orientation. Most are straight. There is no logical reason that they should be grouped with LGBs. It isn’t a matter of “having differences” the way gays and lesbians might have differences. It is a total lack of a common defining characteristic. LGBT is a lie.

      Apr 8, 2012 at 2:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tyler
      Tyler

      Jaye-Then explain the professional victim stance that pretty much ALL trans people have when it comes to Cisgendered people? I’ve seen trans people whine and moan about how trans phobic cisgender people are simply because they’re not Trans, and cisgender privilege that and yes there are a lot of trans people who are highly homo phobic, bi phobic, and even trans people who don’t like lesbians. Quit living life in complete denial with rose colored lenses on when it’s a fact that Trans people are homo phobic, bi phobic, and some trans people don’t like lesbians.

      Apr 8, 2012 at 3:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Veritas
      Veritas

      Why is it that the only options this article gives for transgendered people is “hold it” or “find a Starbucks”? What about the more obvious choice of using a restroom made for your actual (biological) sex?

      Apr 8, 2012 at 3:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ZenJos
      ZenJos

      @Jade: What if I’m a transgender woman who’s also attracted to women? Then am I allowed in your super awesome exclusive rights group?

      But seriously, who the hell are you to tell people their rights don’t matter to your group? Homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism all have one uniting thread, they all have to do with gender relations and public perception thereof. If you’re going to throw one group under the bus because you’ve decreed that they don’t have enough in common with you, then you are a reprehensible human being and I hope you never find yourself in a position of authority within the LGBT community.

      Apr 8, 2012 at 3:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ZenJos
      ZenJos

      @Tyler: I’m not going to say that homophobic trans people don’t exist, because they absolutely do. But deciding that because there are SOME homophobic trans people out there that therefore all trans people must be homophobic is…well, a bit of a stretch, logically speaking. It’s like saying that because some white people hate black people, ALL white people hate black people.

      Apr 8, 2012 at 3:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Casey
      Casey

      Wow. Reading these comments have deeply upset me, it always hurts so much more when such emnity comes from others under the LGBT umbrella. I don’t even have it in me to write a direct response to anyone here, I’ll just say that for those of you who’ve been on the receiving end of homophobia, who’ve felt the sting from others talking about your rights as if you don’t even deserve them, you should have a little more empathy. You know what homophobia feels like, so how do you think transphobia feels?

      Apr 8, 2012 at 4:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sweetbrandigirl2004
      Sweetbrandigirl2004 [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @Anthony:I would beg to differ as to whether one can change their gender. I agree “gender” is how ones brain identifies and the NEED to do so is why the Gender Identity Dysphoria was discovered by Dr Harry Benjamin. In his opinion he set criteria and a scale his scale determines were one fits and whether one is a transvestite or a true transsexual. One of the KEY requirements for a transsexual diagnosis is a desire for Gender Reassignment Surgery without that “Desire” one is but a pretender playing out a dress up fantasy.
      @GBro: Dear GBro while its true my punctuation may have been a mess, that isn’t the point of this story or of my post. Likewise I’m quite confident I known far more about the Transgender community then you’ll ever known being a post-op HBS GID diagnosis Transsexual. Also while I agree whats between a persons legs is their business, public bathrooms are segregated by “gender Identities” their segregated by genitals. As for your suggestion that I ask them politely for their gender preference that almost sounds like a threat, so let me assure you I have no need to ask any transgender person about their gender preference its quite obvious when a transgender person in a dress walks into the ladies room, likewise its quite easy to tell the difference between them and diagnosis transexuals as they carry themselves differently, they dress differently, and most obviously they sound differently.
      @ cynthialee Again you are incorrect I have NO problem with GID diagnosis pre-op transsexual women, I do however have a huge problem with the Transgender mafia whom have highjacked and co-oped the GID diagnosis and GID Transsexuals forcing them under their gender umbrella solely to use them as vilification for their “chosen” lifestyle. Lumping Transsexuals in with the Transgender is like combining blacks and white racist in the same group the two may be at odds over race but it’s the only thing they have in common. Likewise Transsexuals and transgender both dress in clothes of the opposite gender but they do it for completely different reason and have nothing else in common. We must keep in mind that for the GID diagnosis Transsexual their gender Identity is in being the women they’ve always known themselves to be and in completing the transitional process, blending back into society and getting on with life is the ultimate goal. This is a huge contrast from the transgender individual who’s gender Identity is in being transgender, they take pride in standing out and not fitting in. They seek to drawn attention to themselves by being loud, wearing clothes not appropriate for their age and with outlandish behavior as we’ve seen in on evening news and in the paper time after time.

      Apr 8, 2012 at 6:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • trans*
      trans*

      @suzyq:

      What exactly are you afraid they will do with their penis? (Apart from urinate perhaps.) Do you know what M2F HRT does to a penis? Do you think they would feel comfortable in the men’s washroom, with defined breasts and wearing women’s clothing? I think that you need to examine your fears and ask your self if they are rational or not.

      Apr 9, 2012 at 1:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike
      Mike

      ZenJos thanks for proving our point that LGB should be separated from the T. Being bisexual, lesbian, or gay is about someone’s sexual orientation not their gender or gender dysphoria. Being Trans is all about having issues with your gender and wanting to transition your gender you were born which most bisexuals, lesbians, and gay men do not have the desire to do at all.

      Apr 9, 2012 at 4:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JEM
      JEM

      I’m a transgender woman. Contrary to the belief of a few people in the discussion, I pass in public extremely well. I’m never clocked. I’ve been using women’s bathrooms for a long time now and never once had a problem. In my time of using women’s restrooms, you know how many genitals that I’ve seen? A big fat 0. ZERO. Not one. Public restrooms often have stalls and those stalls are private. This way nobody gets to see you pee. Prior to leaving the private stall, people pull up their pants. The reason for this is that nobody sees your genitals upon exiting the stall. The argument about seeing a penis in the women’s room is just laughable.

      The argument that a “men in a dress” enters the bathroom to harm women is also ridiculous too. You know how may documented cases of this happening in the United States? A big fat 0. ZERO. Not one time. That’s right, this has never happened. Trust me, I’ve been looking for 1 case for a long time. All women are more likely to get struck by lightning then have this happen to them. You know what most women have already done? Been in a public restroom with a transwoman. We are not always as easy to spot as some might think. There’s also a lot more of us then you’d think. EVERYONE in public restrooms just want to do their business, wash there hands and continue with their day. People don’t even look at each other in the bathroom. That’s the reality of all of this.

      Grow up people and think about some of these things before you spout nonsense. Some of you actually say that you know about transgender issues as you trash them. I assure you that you don’t.

      Apr 12, 2012 at 6:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JEM
      JEM

      I’d also like to comment on something else that I’m seeing in here. I’m a proud trans-woman but I hate the word “transphobic” and refuse to use it. The term gets thrown around so often and accusing people of it just ticks them off. Now I’m reading about homophobic transgender people now? Are you all insane?

      You don’t make allies by accusing them of being transphobic. You get them by being a model person and showing people who have little exposure to the transgender community a positive face to associate with the word. That goes a lot further than arguing about it and throwing out accusations.

      I will admit that the T in LGBT is different than the other letters. I don’t think the T should be removed completely but I’m tired of seeing transgender folk depending on the gays and lesbians to do our public relations. Transgender people tend to be more quiet and would rather adapt into society than become strong examples for the community. I’ll never knock anyone who has adapted comfortably into society because it’s the dream. However, a few of us need to stand up and take the role as leaders. Until this happens, people will still believe the tired, old stereotypes that are on Jerry Springer. It’s unfortunate but so many people believe that is what our community is really like. We need to change this horrible image ourselves. The gays and the lesbians aren’t going to do it for us and they shouldn’t have to. Once we get our faces out there in a positive manner, the world will slowly start to accept us.

      The bottom line is that some people will always be closed minded. You can’t change that. Instead of trying to argue with them, just ignore them and just continue being who you are. That’s how you take away their power. Eventually they will see that we are positive and strong people. I assure you, they will not get a positive image of us if you keep attacking them. That’s why I hate the word “transphobic”.

      Apr 12, 2012 at 6:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Matthew Richards
      Matthew Richards

      Thanks for infusing some sanity into this conversation JEM! Trans people and gender nonconformists of all stripes need more positive role models and leaders in society. I did want to comment on the phrase “The gays and the lesbians aren’t going to do it for us and they shouldn’t have to.” As a (cisgender) bisexual man, when I see comments like this all over the thread dehumanizing trans people, I can’t not speak up. I can’t allow the massive burden of changing such a hateful world fall only on trans people’s shoulders. Privilege has the nasty habit of changing people into the oppressors they hate most: as gays and lesbians are gaining some mainstream acceptance in the media, trans people keep being thrown under the bus. I refuse to stand aside and watch as others dehumanize trans people (or black people, or poor people) just for the sake of maintaining a good image in the eyes of the mainstream gay community. As a cisgender man, what do I have to lose? Even if I do speak up and people reject me for it, I will never face as much discrimination as trans people have to face daily. So yes, trans people can make their best attempts to extend the olive branch, but you build a bridge to a better future from both sides. No matter how hard trans people try to present positive role models, it will mean nothing if no one is listening. Trans people shouldn’t have to convince gays and lesbians to stop and listen to trans issues…that’s my job. The Ls, Gs, and Bs need to learn to be better allies.

      Apr 13, 2012 at 11:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ZenJos
      ZenJos

      Equality is everyone’s responsibility. That’s why it’s called ‘equality’.

      Apr 16, 2012 at 1:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JEM
      JEM

      @Matthew Richards:

      Thank you Matthew. I do agree with you. All I am saying is that very few transgender people stand up to be leaders of the community and they tend to live their lives more low-key. It’s sort of how the community works. I’m not saying that the gays and lesbians should ignore us but they shouldn’t have to do all of our speaking for us either. My point is that more transgender leaders need to stand up and fight along side the G, L and B. I just wanted to be a little more clear on that point. Thanks again!!!

      Apr 16, 2012 at 3:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • aqui
      aqui

      @Sweetbrandigirl2004:

      Agreed, Sweet!

      I do NOT want men in the same bathroom as women, including myself, and it is absolutely unsafe for women for people who insist they are “trans” pushing this on us.

      And yes, there are known cases of rapists posing as women to walk into women’s bathrooms to lie in wait and then attack.

      One of the most likely places for a woman to be raped is, you guessed it: in a public bathroom.

      These sexist men who have never lived one day–and never will–as a woman, who have the arrogance to claim they are women and to know what it feels like to be female, want to violate women’s rights all over the place.

      Women have every right and reason to stand up and say, “This is about our safety, our comfort, get the hell out of our bathrooms.”

      I’ve been watching the trans menace (men in dresses) fight against women’s rights for over 20 years, and I’m sick of it.

      The straight world is only beginning to get a sample of what those who are unable to accept their biology have on their agenda and what they are really like, including the two accused of making bomb threats at the school. It’s not enough for them to be unable to accept biological reality, they want the rest of us to play along with their delusions and agree to let them violate our rights and safety, too.

      For an eye-popping herstory of all kinds of trans violence and violations of women’s space and women’s rights, folks, Google the GenderTrender blog.

      Apr 20, 2012 at 1:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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