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Why Is Arkansas Christian School Harding University Telling Gay Students They Must Turn Straight?

Harding University, the 6,800-student private Christian school in Searcy, Arkansas, has homosexuals in its student body. CANUBELIEVE! So a group of them go together to publish something called HU Queer Press, where they document what queer life is like on campus. The school is less than thrilled — and immediately blocked access to the publication’s site.

“Within a few moments of publishing “The State of The Gay,” Harding University has blocked access to and censored the website,” says a tipster. So what’s the big deal about being gay on campus? Well for one, claims our informant, “Out gay students at the university either have to do mandatory therapy (i.e. conversion therapy) or get expelled.”

Um. Bullshit?

For its part, Queer Press says it’s “part storytelling, part religious and political critique, and partly a manifesto of hope for Harding’s future.” Things might not be looking good for the future, since the present seems so crappy:

That mission statement if followed by some pretty engaging personal stories of LGBT students who feel they don’t have a home on campus. Which makes sense given that Harding, which is affiliated with the Churches Of Christ, is telling gay students they must “see myself as heterosexual” and tell themselves same-sex attraction is “not natural.” Writes one student: “Three days a week in Harding’s Counseling Center, I moved from therapist to therapist trying to find a way out. It was my final act of desperation. The choices were as follow: be saved from my closeted sin or death. I had it all planned out. If this failed, I would die. I had already gotten the gun. It was under my dorm room bed.”

This isn’t a minor annoyance. This is a matter of life and death for some students. We’re going to try to learn more

By:           Max Simon
On:           Mar 3, 2011
Tagged: , , , ,
  • 109 Comments
    • Daine
      Daine

      What do you expect? It’s a Christian University. It’s like going to McDonald’s to lose weight, or watch Two and a a Half Men and laugh. Aren’t there any public Universities?

      Mar 3, 2011 at 9:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      The cult that runs this school makes the Mormons look normal. These kids probably were not given a choice by their parents about where to attend college. I wish them well.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 10:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Francis
      Francis

      I’m glad these kids have an outlet to discuss what they are going through, but they need to get out of this situation before the worst happens. What this does do is expose, once again, the pure disdain and hatred religious conservatives hold towards us. I wish these kids strength in the situation they are in. And hopefully this gives gay folk the insight of why not to associate with fundamentalists.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 10:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lucas
      Lucas

      Why would a gay person ever willingly go to a university like that? Sort of like kicking a lion and being surprised when it kills you, ya go to a religious place like that you better expect discrimination.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 10:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kernelt
      kernelt

      I find that those who is behind the publication to be courageous and brave.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 10:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dan Woodard
      Dan Woodard

      It’s so easy to speak from the outside looking in. We see so clearly from that vantage point. However, having grown up in a conservative, Christian home in the midwest I understand a little bit about why students choose to go to a religious school for undergrad. I did that, too. What I am grateful to see is their incredible courage to fight and be heard from within. Hopefully it won’t cost them their lives. Meaning, I hope it won’t demoralize them to the point of killing themselves. That is what happens sometimes. The internal battle can be beyond tormenting for gay kids who grow up in these places without any understanding.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 12:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shelby
      Shelby

      Thanks for the post! I go to Harding University, and we need all the press we can get! Help spread the word.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 12:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike
      Mike

      “Why would a gay person ever willingly go to a university like that? Sort of like kicking a lion and being surprised when it kills you, ya go to a religious place like that you better expect discrimination.”

      They do it because often these environments are all they’ve ever known. I went to a public university, but I was raised in conservative Xhristianity, so I spent 3 miserable semesters in the closet among Campus Crusade for Christ folk. I nearly killed myself, and felt the extreme shame and isolation I read about in the ezine (I read the whole thing, took about an hour, and it was like I was that frightened 19 year old I used to be).

      I’m really proud of these young men and women. I wish them the best.

      I left the Campus Crusade type of people behind at the tail end of my sophomore year of college and have lived openly and freely ever since. I live in a big metropolis that is teeming with hot gay men. Yes, even for evangelical gays, It gets better.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 12:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CRS
      CRS

      I am saddened by this shameful behavior by people who are selfish in trying to push their agenda and showing a total disregard for other peoples beliefs. I went to Harding University, it is a very good school. As a Christian school they uphold Christian principles and morals and require that their students and faculty do the same. They do not allow drinking (even if you are of age), they enforce a modest dress code, there is a curfew, they don’t allow heterosexual couples to engage in pre-marital sex, and likewise they also condemn homosexuality as it is not a Biblically accepted way of life. They admonish these people to turn from their way of life because they believe that they will lose their souls if they do not. They are not judging, but loving them by trying to save them from eternal punishment and they do that just as much for people committing other sins as they do for those who are homosexual. If you have a problem with those rules, morals, or want to engage in things the school prohibits you should not attend Harding. The University is not forcing their beliefs on anyone, but they do expect you to abide by their rules while going to school there and there is nothing wrong with them enforcing those rules. If you are gay fine, but there is no need for you to attend Harding knowing that they will not tolerate your lifestyle and then choosing to throw a fit because you want to force them to accept you. That in itself is wrong!

      Mar 3, 2011 at 12:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike
      Mike

      @CRS.

      They’re not throwing a fit. They’re publishing a magazine about their experiences. I’m sorry you don’t understand the difference.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 1:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike
      Mike

      @CRS:

      They’re not throwing a fit. They’re publishing a magazine about their experiences. I’m sorry you don’t understand the difference.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 1:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Codswallop
      Codswallop

      “Somewhere… there is a young gay person who suddenly realizes that he or she is gay; knows that if the parents find out, they’d be tossed out of the house; the classmates would torture the child; and the Anita Bryants and John Briggs are doing their bit on TV. That child has several options: staying in the closet, suicide. And then one day that child might open up the paper and it says “Homosexual voted to San Francisco” and there are two new options. One option is to go to California, or stay in San Antonio and fight.” -Harvey Milk

      I’m not religious so don’t completely understand the exact battle these young people are fighting but they’re make a brave stand, not unlike the early gay rights activists of the 50s and 60s who first met in secret then demanded recognition.

      I question the assumption that the only thing for gay people to do is take off for a big city as soon as possible and sever ties with their place of origin, often including their community and family. Certainly there are advantages to doing that and I understand why people do it, but there’s an aspect of it that’s ceding territory to our enemies, an implied acknowledgment that that despite being born and raised in certain places and communities we don’t “belong” there or have the right to claim it as our own. That includes religious communities as much as geographical ones.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 1:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @CRS: What a crock.

      “They are not judging they are loving . . .” – Every bigot says the same thing. We love the sinner and hate the sin. BS. Judging is exactly what you’re doing.

      The university is not forcing their beliefs on anyone.” – That is exactly what they’re doing.

      “Homosexuality is not a Biblically accepted way of life.” – You’re a bible scholar?

      You live in a very narrow world. if it works for you, great. Just don’t think you’re entitled to impose it on others.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 1:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Max
      Max

      @CRS: It sounds good on paper, doesn’t it? Harding should make sure all of its attendees are conservative, straight Christians who not only adhere to each of the rules, but love doing it.

      But have you heard? It’s that suggested environment that’s killing the souls you say you want to save. If all they can do after weeks of therapy at this school is think about killing themselves, have you really saved their soul from judgment? Surrounded by Christian therapists, taught by Christian preachers in their mandatory Bible classes, encouraged by their peers to go to more Bible studies, spoken to daily in mandatory chapel, these students TRY to become what everyone around them says they should become and when they simply can’t, they end up at Harding Park with a gun to their heads.

      Tell me you’ve saved a soul, CRS. Tell me that person who spent years hating himself, years at Harding trying to change himself, who is now on the ground crying out to God for possibly the last time to help change him, TELL ME, CRS, that that soul didn’t try hard enough.

      When you grow up in the church, CRS, no one on earth wants to change more than these souls. There is no way on earth you could want it more than they could. And no matter how hard they try, no matter how hard they pray, no matter how hard the people around them pray, they are still attracted to the same sex.

      I’m a gay student at Harding. I go there because I believe in God, and I love Him. I go there in full knowledge of what the rules and regulations are. I go there in spite of the fact that all around me is hatred for gays – it’s not loving concern for my soul. It’s the idea that I didn’t try hard enough to change. It’s the idea that I’m not committed to my faith. How dare I be the way I am, why don’t I study with you one more time, let you show me what happened at Sodom one more time, let you tell me what Paul said one more time, let you pray for me one more time, WHY AREN’T I GETTING IT, do I hate God, do I want to lose my soul?

      These people aren’t looking to change all of Harding. They aren’t immediately looking to change Christian doctrine. They’re looking for people who won’t treat them like they have no business being in the church.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 1:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Autumn
      Autumn

      I am a student at Harding University and have a faith that tells me that homosexuality is wrong. Try and translate/twist scripture any way that you want–but it doesn’t change the truth.

      These gay students knew the rules of Harding before they came here. If they don’t like it, they don’t have to be here.

      Harding U doesn’t deserve bad press over this. It’s an amazing school with wonderful morals and an awesome student body.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 1:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @Autumn: I’m glad to see that college has opened your mind to new ideas. Welcome to a world where not everyone thinks exactly like you.

      Sadly, you’re just another example of why absolute belief in everything some so-called Bible scholar says makes the world a fucked up place.

      I’m sure the gay students had Harding chosen for them. Perhaps they only realized their orientation after leaving home. The university does them a real disservice by damning them on account of their sexual orientation.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 1:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Codswallop
      Codswallop

      @Autumn: There is more than one way to interpret the Bible and adhering to a homophobic interpretation when there are others, equally supported by biblical scholars, is a deliberate choice. Do you also believe in the keeping of slaves, the stoning of adulterers and unruly children, and forcing widows to marry their husband’s brother? Because all of those are in your “holy” book too. What about judge not lest ye be judged? Does that ring any bells?

      Mar 3, 2011 at 2:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @Autumn: Listen, if you and your friend CRS hate queers so much, what the fuck are you doing on a site called Queerty? It is beyond me why you guys can’t just leave us alone. Just as you have the right to live your narrow minded, bible beating lives, we have the right to live ours. Believe as you like, but leave us out of it. And if, in the current climate where we ARE WINNING THE WAR AGAINST YOUR BIGOTRY,slowly but surely, you can’t be so dim as to expect us not to talk about the ridiculousness that is schools like Harding. Wonderful indeed. More like wonderfully ignorant. Now why don’t you stop trolling a site where you had to know your views would fall on deaf ears and scurry on back to church?

      Mar 3, 2011 at 2:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CRS
      CRS

      @Max: Max, I cannot even possibly imagine what is must be like to be a gay person at Harding. I am sure it is very difficult and I sympathize with their problems. I do not believe that being gay is the worst sin a person could commit. I think in the eyes of God all sin is equal whether the sin is lying, stealing, being a drunk, murder, premarital sex, adultery, homosexuality, etc …all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23). Many people don’t know how to deal with people who are homosexual because it is not something that most people have to deal with. The majority of people have sinned in lying or lusting or getting drunk at an illegal party when they were in high school, so those problems are more understandable and more easily overlooked by people which isn’t necessarily right. I have friends that are gay, I don’t think they are second class citizens that should be ostracized, but they know that I do not agree with their lifestyle. We all have vices that pull at us and try to get us to sin. We all have to decide whether to give into those desires or choose to put aside the desires of the flesh and strive to honor God in our lives. Every person has to decide at some point if they are going to disregard God’s way for instant gratification or if they are going to keep God’s laws because they know the eternal reward is worth it. For some people the vice is an addiction to food or alcohol, for others it’s pornography, others struggle with greed or pride, still others with keeping themselves pure before they are married, and for some the struggle is with being homosexual. I don’t believe that being attracted to someone of the same sex is a sin; it is the acting on that desire that leads to sin. If someone who was gay could come to terms with the fact that they were never going to be attracted to someone of the opposite sex but chose to live a life of celibacy and honor God there would be no sin in that. That would be no different than a single straight person who greatly desires to be married not only for the companionship and ability to have/raise kids, but also for the physical intimacy enjoyed in marriage that never marries, but chose to remain a virgin and honor God in their life despite seemingly unanswered prayers and deeply unfulfilled longings. It’s as Paul wrote in Philippians 3:8 “More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ.” The bottom line is God loves EVERYONE so much that he allowed his son to die for people who would reject him, but he wants us to love him enough to endure the difficult things in life choosing to obey and trust him it’s up to us if we are willing to do that or not.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 2:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CRS
      CRS

      @Max: Max, I cannot even possibly imagine what is must be like to be a gay person at Harding. I am sure it is very difficult and I sympathize with their problems. I do not believe that being gay is the worst sin a person could commit. I think in the eyes of God all sin is equal whether the sin is lying, stealing, being a drunk, murder, premarital sex, adultery, homosexuality, etc …all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23). Many people don’t know how to deal with people who are homosexual because it is not something that most people have to deal with. The majority of people have sinned in lying or lusting or getting drunk at an illegal party when they were in high school, so those problems are more understandable and more easily overlooked by people which isn’t necessarily right. I have friends that are gay, I don’t think they are second class citizens that should be ostracized, but they know that I do not agree with their lifestyle. We all have vices that pull at us and try to get us to sin. We all have to decide whether to give into those desires or choose to put aside the desires of the flesh and strive to honor God in our lives. Every person has to decide at some point if they are going to disregard God’s way for instant gratification or if they are going to keep God’s laws because they know the eternal reward is worth it. For some people the vice is an addiction to food or alcohol, for others it’s pornography, others struggle with greed or pride, still others with keeping themselves pure before they are married, and for some the struggle is with being homosexual. I don’t believe that being attracted to someone of the same sex is a sin; it is the acting on that desire that leads to sin. If someone who was gay could come to terms with the fact that they were never going to be attracted to someone of the opposite sex but chose to live a life of celibacy and honor God there would be no sin in that. That would be no different than a single straight person who greatly desires to be married not only for the companionship and ability to have/raise kids, but also for the physical intimacy enjoyed in marriage that never marries, but chose to remain a virgin and honor God in their life despite seemingly unanswered prayers and deeply unfulfilled longings. It’s as Paul wrote in Philippians 3:8 “More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ.” The bottom line is God loves EVERYONE so much that he allowed his son to die for people who would reject him, but he wants us to love him enough to endure the difficult things in life choosing to obey and trust him it’s up to us if we are willing to do that or not.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 2:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Injustice Is Sin
      Injustice Is Sin

      “I am a student at Harding University and have a faith that tells me that homosexuality is wrong. ”

      Then your faith is in human beings rather than in God.

      “Try and translate/twist scripture any way that you want–but it doesn’t change the truth.”

      The truth is that homosexuality is no more a sin than heterosexuality is, Autumn. The truth is that Paul said that women are not to try to instruct men or to have authority over them. The truth is that anti-gay theology only bears evil fruit, and Jesus was explicit: evil fruit = evil tree:

      Matthew 7:15-23:

      15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

      21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

      Anti-gay theology destroys people, it destroys faith, it promotes injustice and hate – it does not come from God. Anti-gay theology is the antithesis of what Christ taught.

      “These gay students knew the rules of Harding before they came here. If they don’t like it, they don’t have to be here.”

      Homophobes who pretend to be Christians know Christ’s rules, if they don’t like Christ’s rules, they can follow themselves instead –

      oh, wait. That is what they are doing.

      “Harding U doesn’t deserve bad press over this.”
      It deserves to be excommunicated.

      “It’s an amazing school with wonderful morals and an awesome student body.”

      No, for it not only promotes injustice, it apparently did not teach you that lying is a sin.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 2:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @CRS: Thank goodness it is not a “sin” to be an idiot, because you would need a ton of forgiveness. Being gay is not wrong, and neither is having sex with someone of the same gender.

      Many Bible scholars thoroughly disagree with the narrow, literalist view you try to support by taking verses out of context. Unless you can establish your competence in ancient Greek and Hebrew, for starters, take your Bible-thumping elsewhere.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 2:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Max
      Max

      @justiceontherocks: I wouldn’t necessarily joke about that; those are legitimate classes offered at Harding. I’ve taken one.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 3:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stanley
      Stanley

      @CRS: Thank you for taking the time to write that, CRS. Not everyone on this site is going to attack you for your views.

      I have accepted that I’m gay (I’m a guy attracted to other men) but I don’t think that practicing homosexuality is the best plan. So far, I’m doing pretty good — I’m still a virgin.

      I’m not worthy to find love from other mortal men, but I’m hoping to find love through my belief, service, and sacrifice to the Lord.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 3:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Danny
      Danny

      Hopefully all the students talk about it on facebook as well as to each other in person so people can just hop on their non-university smart phones, etc. to check out the site and learn more.

      Hopefully the university will stop breaking the Commandment of Thou Shall Not Bear False Witness against Thy Neighbor. You cannot stop the flow of knowledge in a free society.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 3:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @Max: I’m sure they are offered. I’m not equally sure CRS knows anything about either. I’m very sure that narrow-minded people need to be called on their narrow-minded views. College is supposed to be a time of intellectual exploration. Obviously Harding is a place where this is about as likely as at BYU.

      As much as I rag on them, most Catholic universities are pretty good with their gay students. I feel bad for the gay students at Harding. It’s obviously a difficult time for them and the school’s posture isn’t helpful at all.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 3:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Injustice Is Sin
      Injustice Is Sin

      CRS

      “I am saddened by this shameful behavior by people who are selfish in trying to push their agenda and showing a total disregard for other peoples beliefs.”

      If only you were talking about homophobes, then you would not be sinning. But your characterization of the GLBTQ students at Harding is false, and therefore it is sin on your part. Please repent.

      “I went to Harding University, it is a very good school. As a Christian school they uphold Christian principles and morals and require that their students and faculty do the same.”

      And yet, clearly, they do not. Christ taught “love your neighbor as yourself”, but Harding’s anti-gay theology intrinsically violates that. Anyone who teaches any prejudice, including ‘homosexuality is sin’, rejects Christ.

      “They do not allow drinking (even if you are of age),”

      Although Christ changed water into wine for a wedding, and participated in passover feasts that use wine, and pass a cup of wine to his disciples.

      “they don’t allow heterosexual couples to engage in pre-marital sex,”

      Which actually doesn’t have a Biblical basis.

      “and likewise they also condemn homosexuality as it is not a Biblically accepted way of life.”

      Homosexuality is not a ‘way of life’, and labeling it thusly is sin on your part. The Bible does not condemn homosexuality, some fallible and frankly malicious people interpret a handful of passages to create a false condemnation of homosexuality in order to exalt their own heterosexuality. That is the sin of ego or pride, CRS.

      The Bible teaches consistently against injustice of any kind, yet anti-gay theology is intrinsically injustice – depriving millions of people of intimacy, love and affection to appease the ego’s of heterosexuals.

      “They admonish these people to turn from their way of life because they believe that they will lose their souls if they do not.”

      That belief is not sound Christian theology – for Christ taught that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by any act or work of our own.

      “They are not judging,”

      Yes, you and they are judging, and you are lying about it. Bearing false witness is sin, CRS.

      “but loving them”

      No, equating our loving relationships with adultery, murder, stealing, etc – is not love. It is hate, CRS.

      “by trying to save them from eternal punishment”

      But again, sound Christian theology rejects ‘justified by works’ – no one can save themselves, or anyone else, by what they do or do not do. You have sinned here repeatedly, your own standard condemns you.

      “The University is not forcing their beliefs on anyone, but they do expect you to abide by their rules while going to school there and there is nothing wrong with them enforcing those rules.”

      If they are “enforcing those rules”, then the university is in fact forcing their beliefs on people who attend.

      “If you are gay fine, but there is no need for you to attend Harding knowing that they will not tolerate your lifestyle”

      Homosexuality is not a lifestyle. You sin every time you use that meme. What, again, is the punishment for your sin, CRS?

      “and then choosing to throw a fit because you want to force them to accept you.”

      No one is throwing a fit, CRS. Your false characterization is sin.

      “Max, I cannot even possibly imagine what is must be like to be a gay person at Harding. I am sure it is very difficult and I sympathize with their problems.”

      And yet you presume to know what is right for them anyways. That is the sin of pride, CRS. Please repent.

      “I do not believe that being gay is the worst sin a person could commit. I think in the eyes of God all sin is equal whether the sin is lying, stealing, being a drunk, murder, premarital sex, adultery, homosexuality,”

      It is sin on your part to equate our loving relationships with drunkenness, murder, adultery, and so on. You would not stand to have your capacity for love and intimacy treated as equivalent to murdering someone, yet you do that to us. You have sinned, CRS, please repent.

      And your sin indicates that you do not understand Christ’s teachings very well.

      “Many people don’t know how to deal with people who are homosexual because it is not something that most people have to deal with.”

      Ignorance is no excuse.

      “I have friends that are gay, I don’t think they are second class citizens that should be ostracized, but they know that I do not agree with their lifestyle.”

      You just diminish the validity of their capacity for love and intimacy to a “lifestyle” as if it were a choice between rock and rap, cotton or polyester. How vile. You just compare their loving relationships to murder.

      “We all have vices that pull at us and try to get us to sin.”

      So you should be paying attention to your own errors, instead of maligning the loving relationships of millions of human beings, second guessing their lives for them out of your ego and pride.

      Why are you not working on your pride? Why are you feeding the sin of pride in your life by reviling GLBTQ people?

      “We all have to decide whether to give into those desires or choose to put aside the desires of the flesh and strive to honor God in our lives.”

      And you decided to give into the desire to put other people down, to judge and condemn them, to revile and libel them, rather than honor God.

      “for some the struggle is with being homosexual”

      Homosexuality is not a sin, CRS. The struggle that GLBTQ people have is not with their sexuality, but with the hate, prejudice and discrimination that sinners like you inflict on our lives.

      “I don’t believe that being attracted to someone of the same sex is a sin; it is the acting on that desire that leads to sin.”

      So you believe that God is unjust and irrational. That is a sin against the Holy Spirit, CRS, said to be the only unforgivable sin.

      You are trying to have it both ways – acknowledge that homosexuality is innate, and therefore comes from God, and yet cling to human, fallible false condemnations of this innate, God given trait, by saying that heterosexuals like you can express your sexuality, but homosexuals must not. That is unjust, and when you present that as God’s will, you claim that God is unjust.

      “If someone who was gay could come to terms with the fact that they were never going to be attracted to someone of the opposite sex but chose to live a life of celibacy and honor God there would be no sin in that.”

      If only heterosexuals could do as Paul suggested and chose a live of celibacy and honor God. CRS, the very first curse in the Bible, directed at humans, specifically targets the result of heterosexual sex. Genesis 3:

      16 To the woman he said,

      “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
      with painful labor you will give birth to children.
      Your desire will be for your husband,
      and he will rule over you.”

      Paul said is what better that people not marry at all. So, please, take a vow of celibacy here, publicly.

      Your expectation that GLBTQ all live celibate lives, to appease you, is unjust, and it only feeds your ego. Please repent.

      “The bottom line is God loves EVERYONE so much that he allowed his son to die for people who would reject him, but”

      There is no but in the actual Scripture, CRS.

      John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

      “he wants us to love him enough to endure the difficult things in life choosing to obey and trust him it’s up to us if we are willing to do that or not.”

      That is not sound Christian theology.

      Apparently, you did not receive a very good education, in Christian theology at least, at Harding University.

      Which is another good reason why you and your peers should focus on the sin in your own lives, like injustice and pride, rather than imagine sins in the lives of others.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 3:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Injustice Is Sin
      Injustice Is Sin

      CRS, Autumn

      Another passage from John 3 for you to consider a moment, in light of real world events:

      “20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.”

      In Uganda, people are acting on anti-gay theology by working to institute the death penalty for homosexuality, and papers there have published the names and addresses of “known homosexuals” – inciting violence. Pastors in Uganda, among other places, are using accusations of homosexuality to discredit each other to steal members, and tithes, from each other’s congregations.

      In the U.S., as a result of anti-gay theology, there is hate crime committed against a GLBTQ person, or someone perceived to be gay or lesbian, at least 4 times a day. Probably a lot more than that, as experts report that most anti-gay hate crimes either do not get reported at all, or are not tracked as such by the police.

      Anti-gay theology drives GLBTQ youth, and adults, to suicide, to reject Christianity, and makes them susceptible to addictions and other self-destructive behaviors – because “the church” teaches them that “they are abominations hated by God”.

      Anti-gay theology drives some parents to abandon or reject their GLBTQ kids, to the point that some kids are thrown out onto the street as teens – vulnerable to predatory adults of any sexual orientation or ideology, vulnerable to addictions, trapped in poverty.

      All of the consequences of anti-gay theology – the idea ‘homosexuality is sin’ are evil. Nothing good comes of it. Even for heterosexuals it is destructive, for it inflates their pride, it seduces them into the sin of thinking that they are intrinsically superior to someone else.

      Jesus’s test for right understanding, for good teaching, in Matthew 7 completely repudiates anti-gay theology. If the idea “homosexuality is sin” is truly God’s will, then Jesus Christ was not the Messiah at all, but a fraud. If Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, then anti-gay theology cannot come from God. The two teachings – what Christ taught and anti-gay theology – are mutually exclusive, they cannot both be true.

      All of the harm, the discrimination, the lies, the ugly and depraved assumptions, inflicted on GLBTQ people by people who believe ‘homosexuality is sin’ – is evil. So once again, John 3:20

      Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.

      And in case you have any doubts that the above is applicable, just this week another professional homophobe – some who publicly promoted anti-gay theology – was caught in sexual sin, masturbating in his car at a playground full of children. Over and over and over again, clergy and politicians and ordinary people who revile GLBTQ and claim that ‘homosexuality is sin’ get caught doing terrible things.

      Is that really the path you two want to walk?

      Mar 3, 2011 at 3:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rachel
      Rachel

      @Stanley: God bless you, Stanley. You are in my prayers, even though we do not know each other. I know it must be so hard to live that way, and I can’t imagine doing it. God bless you. I hope people listen to you.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 3:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CRS
      CRS

      @Stanley: Wow, Stanley what an awesome example you are to people in your same situation! Keep up the good work, you are a light! I pray God blesses you and strengthens you as you strive to live for Him!

      Mar 3, 2011 at 3:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      Why is Stanley on another thread confirming every negative stereotype about gay men? It seems like self disgust and shame finds an outlet in condemnation of others and their behaviours.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 4:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      What is it with all the trolling here today? Why can’t you people leave us to be our happily flaming selves in peace? We aren’t hurting you.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 5:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @Shannon1981: That’s easy. They are “mos” inching their way out of the closet, desperately seek to shred their self-hatred.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 5:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bee
      Bee

      I have a friend who goes there, she did an interview for the news today about it, she said
      “A website was put up and a pamphlet was printed saying that Harding targets gays, when in reality, all sexual activity outside of marriage is discouraged, both homosexual and heterosexual. That’s what the Bible says, after all.

      Everyone knows what they were getting into when they came to this university. They knew Harding’s standards and beliefs, the environment they would be surrounded by.”

      To facebook :/

      Mar 3, 2011 at 5:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Injustice Is Sin
      Injustice Is Sin

      Rachel

      Why do you hope that people here listen to someone who considers himself “unworthy of love”?

      Why do you refuse to listen to those of us whose experience and knowledge repudiate prejudice and injustice?

      Timothy 4 3For (D)the time will come when they will not endure (E)sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4and (F)will turn away their ears from the truth and (G)will turn aside to myths.

      Anti-gay theology is built of myths, and worse, lies, about gays and lesbians, and about God.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 5:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chris
      Chris

      CRS, useing The Bible to back up your claims is like a Muslim useing the Quran to show how Islam is the one true faith. Stupid.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 5:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • michael
      michael

      Let me think. I’m a gay high school senior and I have $24,000 a year to spend on a private college of my choice, anywhere on the planet. I hear college years are the best years of your life, so I was wondering…if anybody can recommend a school where I can not be who I am and be miserable for four years?

      Sorry, folks. But if you don’t like something, don’t bellyache. Just don’t buy.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 5:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tallskin2
      tallskin2

      Fucking hell! Reading some of the comments on this thread it’s like reading a discussion thread from an insane asylum.

      No, for real. No joke.

      What the fuck! How can any gay person sign up for such utter bollocks as this evil death cult, christianity!!!. A death cult that shrivels the soul of any gay kid who wonders within reach of its insidious death-field. Are you gays who subscribe to this evil homophobic bollocks masochists or what?

      No, no, worse. How can any rational, sentient being sign up for such sky pixie bollocks?

      I am not convinced that believers in this nonsense should be permitted to corrupt innocent minds. I am all for freedom of expression, but not if it is harmful to people. There surely has to be some state control of harmful substances/ideologies. Drugs are controlled because they cause harm. In Germany nazi ideology is against the law because of the harm such ideologies can do. Yet, we, here in Europe and in the USA permit, without any controls whatsoever, utter mind heroin like religion to run riot.

      No, no, no. Religion’s harms must be controlled and directed by the wider society. It’s absurd not to do so.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 6:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nigel Puerasch
      Nigel Puerasch

      The Christian-Fascists strike again!

      All they can do is hate.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 6:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • lemon-lime
      lemon-lime

      @Stanley: Good for you. I spent many years in your situation. I remained celibate, and I do not for one moment regret that. I am now in a committed long-term relationship going on 2 years.

      If we could be married, we would be.

      God has blessed my relationship, and we are happy together. I have come out to my parents and they have met my partner. They are slowly coming to terms, and I believe, happiness with my decisions in life. God is happy with my decisions in life.

      By all means, pray, and look for what God leads you to do. Do not assume, however, that everything you hear at church is from God. It is not. There are a lot of societal rules and mores mixed in that have nothing to do with the Bible. Focus on Jesus. Maybe God wants you to be celibate for the rest of your like, and maybe he doesn’t. If you believe in a living God, then you should listen to what He says to you with the highest authority.

      Don’t get caught up in the stereotypes, either. You are who you are, you needn’t conform to any stereotypes. Be yourself and perhaps God will put someone in your that’s just like you like he did for me.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 6:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • lemon-lime
      lemon-lime

      @tallskin2: I don’t mean to be rude, but you sound like a hate-filled psychotic control freak. If you want people to leave you in peace, why don’t you model that behavior by doing the same?

      Mar 3, 2011 at 6:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @justiceontherocks: Even here in the Bible belt, and at school where I am harassed incessantly, I LOVE BEING OPENLY GAY. For so long I felt such self hatred and shame. When I came out of that, it was like being born again. I cannot imagine why people like Stanley and his ilk are doing what they do. He makes Matt Hissey and Chris Barron look sane, and that is saying something. JFC, I spend every waking moment of my life being as queer as I like, and I am happily going on a lesbian cruise as a graduation present to myself, where I will lie half naked by swimming pools with beautiful women like I was born to do, and nothing could make me happier. I feel sorry for any gay person who feels otherwise.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 6:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @Shannon1981: I could not agree with you more. You did the right thing and I’m very happy for you. Don’t look back.

      The “straight” people writing to Queerty are just like the guy in the sports bar who constantly talks about how he hates faggots. 99% of the time he’s looking for dick. That’s CRS. Poor Stanley has just bought into every negative image of himself. It can take people a very long time to break through that.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 6:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @justiceontherocks: After conversion therapy(read:Exodus International style brainwashing) I was like Stanley. But by the time I was 14, I saw how crazy it all was, and was like fuck it. I feel sorry for people who actually buy into it, and I absolutely abhor the ones here trying to preach to us to reinforce those sick, bigoted ideas. Who knows what scared Christian gay kid is reading here? Its harmful. I know Queerty is not an advocacy site, but they really should delete that BS. I find it to be harmful, and no, I do not advocate censorship in any way…but, who knows what scared gay kids are lurking here, reading that crap and believing it? Its scary to think how many will ignore our posts and read those of Stanley’s ilk and hate themselves.

      And thank you. I find you to be quite entertaining, intelligent, and enlightening. :) If I decide on an all inclusive LGBT Key West Cruise or resort, I’ll drop a line here and hope as many of my Queerty friends as possible show up.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 7:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @justiceontherocks: If only I had a nickel for every time someone in one of these redneck sports bars in this town called me ‘sir'(when I am clearly a woman with DD’s, they were just being mean) or a faggot or a dyke…I wouldn’t be killing myself and breaking my neck working and taking six classes. Fuck people who call us faggots or any other slut. You know what baby? We’re better than they are. I am really proud to call you an internet pal, if you’ll have me. *raises glass* Happy being gay!

      BTW, yes I am drunk posting. It is spring break and I turn 30 next Friday. Let’s celebrate our gay selves and ignore the trolls!

      Mar 3, 2011 at 7:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • lemon-lime
      lemon-lime

      @justiceontherocks: Amen. And the thing of it is, none of us can help him move any faster than he’s ready to move except by being supportive and showing him that he can be his full self and be gay and there’s no contradiction there.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 7:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @Shannon1981: Happy 30th!! To you and the Doubles Ds. You survived conversion therapy very well!!

      Mar 3, 2011 at 7:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @justiceontherocks:Hey Baby proud to be gay. We need PM’s on this site, I kinda think you and I would have a good time together…you, your BF/me my GF(if I had one) LOL

      anyway good riddance to trolls. I want friends in this homophobiaville,and I Adore you! We;re good BB. Ignore Stanley and crew.
      I am a little genderqueer and looking for a reduction(I am a really pretty boi!) but I am ok, and that is all that matters. Thanks again.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 8:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      Some people have no choice but to attend a Christian school, because Mom&Dad are writing the tuition cheçks and think state colleges are supah-satanic.

      That said, many folks who I know who went to “no mo’ sex” universities still got plenty of action despite the rules.

      @Shannon1981: Happy Birthday to one of my fave newish people on the site! I appreciate yr perspectives. Enjoy the cruise, spring break & don’t forget the sunscreen !

      Mar 3, 2011 at 8:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @Jeffree: ITs so funny, I posted like 2 times in Adam Lambert posts, because, even being THE ONLY LESBIAN on some Adam LAmbert sites I bought into the idea that you guys would hate me. But you havent, and I appreciate that and love you guys. I feel I have a family here. I like being gay, but it is TRYING. Today, i started an exercise regimine with my STRAIGHT CRUSH. So you guys understand, right? ‘i love you guys. Thank you. You make me so proud to be a Queerty commenter and a lesbian. And DO NOT MISTAKE ME FOR THAT CRAZY SHANNON TROLL!!! I love my boys here. And I love Kayla and the other straight allies. I’ve found a home. THanks, for real. On the 11th, I’ll be here drinking, being an old maid LOL. I want a gf. But..I don’t have one. So, for now, I have my Queerty family. thank you, sincerely. I love you.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 8:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gregger
      Gregger

      @Stanley: Please go carefully through life and seek out some psych counseling, it can all get to be too much. One of my sister-in-laws best friend was a Harding Grad who knew he was gay and stayed a virgin, until it go to be to much for him. Steve started meeting men on the sly in unsafe situations. His death almost killed my sister in law.

      Just please keep in mind Jesus did not say ANYTHING about same sex relations and that the Bible has been re-written time and again to add or delete what ever was desired by the powers that think they be. I do not recognize “the Lord of Love” in any of the hatemongers rants.

      Mar 3, 2011 at 9:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • lemon-lime
      lemon-lime

      @Gregger: Harrowing words. Take note, Stanley. There are gays of all types, even here on advocacy websites. We are not a monoculture. You are welcome here even if you choose to be celibate for the rest of your life, mate!

      Mar 3, 2011 at 9:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @Jeffree: I lovew you BB! Lets go on a gay cruise! butt banging and clit licking like it should be! *no one else allowed*

      Mar 3, 2011 at 9:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Emily
      Emily

      I go to Harding University, and it definitely has it’s faults. They are very old school in some of their thinking, and have insanely strict policies. I transferred away once because of this wondering why I tried to go such a strict college, but came back because of the amazing friends there. I feel the judgment on campus too, but I think that there are also a lot of loving christian people there as well who are willing to accept and love others. Some of their policies do have to change, and maybe this will get them thinking, but it isn’t the entire school that is critical and judgemental. The school also has some of the kindest, accepting people I’ve ever met.
      Just don’t want you all out there thinking everyone who attends this school are a bunch of crazy homophobes.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 1:04 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Emily
      Emily

      I go to Harding University, and it definitely has its faults. The administration is very old school in a lot of their thinking, and there are some things they for sure need to change. I even transferred away at one point wondering why I had attempted to go to such a strict school in the first place, but came back because of all the amazing friends I have there. I feel the judgment on campus as well, but not everyone is like that. There are very loving and accepting people there as well. Just don’t want you guys to think everyone there are crazy homophobes.
      As far as blocking the website goes, they also have Myspace blocked so go figure.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 1:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chris
      Chris [Different person #1 using similar name]

      I almost went to Harding.

      This is all very sad.

      My problem with it all is Romans 1. I have not seen an adequate explanation as to how this passage does not describe homosexual acts as wrong from a Christian perspective.

      Because I hold the Bible to be true I base worldviews off of it. For you to reason with me about this you must either explain to me why the Bible says something different or why I shouldn’t believe the Bible.

      If you try to explain this to me realize that I also believe that…
      The Bible had one author. Giving another scripture does not necessarily refute this one. I will merely try to balance the two thinking of them as having both come from God.

      You also need to know that I am sorry to those of you who were bullied, harassed, or treated unfairly because of being gay. The people who did that accomplished nothing. It is not a Christian attitude to have (cf. injustice is Sin). It is a Christian attitude to share what the Bible says however. (Again if the Bible doesn’t say homosexuality is a sin explain to me Romans 1! Or maybe even Leviticus and why it is part of the old law that shouldn’t carry over to the new law. You Harding people know what I’m talking about here.)

      I am praying for those of you who are here. Yes I don’t know you. Yes I know many of you think I’m stupid for doing it. I’m ok with that.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 1:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • psyguybri
      psyguybri

      I grew up in the church of christ in rural Texas. This is a cult who does not allow musical instruments of any kind, do not allow women to speak once the service starts, and states that a women must ask her husband to interpret any biblical questions she may have. I have luckily left this church and do not acknowledge the Christ story as anything but distillation and amalgam of many prechristian beliefs. I hope that those of you who claim that this church or any fundamentalist church is loving burn in the fires of your own hell for each person you have caused to abandon their faith or even more tragically abandon their hope in life and commit suicide. You claim you cannot “twist” scripture… well if “each man must seek his own salvation” (that’s in your little fairy tale text) mind your owned god damned business and focus on your own poor chance at salvation and leave the rest of us alone!

      Mar 4, 2011 at 1:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Craig
      Craig

      @Autumn:

      I see the words that you type, and it rings so hollow and uncaring. I have a question for you, do you have any idea what it’s like to be sitting there with a gun in your mouth hoping that you can get the courage up to pull the fucking trigger? I think not, but I do. I do because I was beaten, threatened, and harassed on a daily basis due to my sexuality.

      If you think that I should have gone somewhere else or done something else I was in public high school, no choice in the situation. In retrospect I made the right choice, i chose to live. Unfortunately some don’t, and it’s your fault. You and everyone else that destroys lives like you do. Their blood is on your hands.

      I still and putting my life together 30 years later. Not everyone that I went to high school made it though. One student shot themselves in the restroom when I was a Junior.

      Guess you are reaping what you sow, congratulations!

      Mar 4, 2011 at 1:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Simon
      Simon

      I’m a student here at Harding University and I really hate what’s happening here. The queer press that made this publication has thrown so much negative light on my home. We are not a “cult” that makes Mormons look normal; justiceontherocks clearly is not speaking from an educated position. The Church of Christ is a conservative modern denomination, similar to any other Christian church but with different interpretations and practices derived from our biblical viewpoint. Not a cult. I chose to come here because I believe in what this school does and their purpose, and you will find that an overwhelming majority of the students here harbor the same attitude. The ones that are forced to come here typically fail out or leave or get kicked out because they choose to break the rules laid down by the Harding administration. Harding has rules just like any university, they are just based on a solid foundation of biblical principles.

      So let me just give it to you straight. No pun intended, although it is kind of a funny pun. A few gay/lesbian/bigender/transvestite/triconfused people got together and wrote a newsletter. The newsletter was meant to only be about their gay experiences at Harding. One of them chose to not do that, however, and went in to graphic detail about his sexual immorality outside of his time at Harding. What’s the point? Anyway, Harding blocked the publication because of the graphic nature of the publication, similar to the way they block websites like Pornotube.com. It is their private internet operated within the confines of the private university on private property. Harding is completely within their rights to do so. They are not “banning” their students from viewing the publication. Heck, I have a copy sitting on my desk. People need to read it. But Harding does not need to condone it.
      “Hate the sin, love the sinner.” That’s what they all say, I get it. Harding does not act on grounds of sexual orientation. They act on grounds of sexual immorality. If the queer press didnt include their gay blowjobs in their publication, then they probably would not have gotten blocked.

      HUQueerPress is degrading to our school and our faith. They state that they never intended to do so. But they did. And I’m glad it’s blocked. It sends a message that we stand secure in our beliefs and do not waiver when the wind (HUQueerPress) blows (again, no pun intended).

      Don’t associate this school with homophobes. Don’t associate this school with homos. This is a normal Christian University. If you don’t believe me then come visit. If you don’t come visit, you have no room to bash my home. If you bash my home, I hope you can sleep at night while we students are out serving those who can’t survive another night without us. If you don’t believe us, check out one of our hundreds of active service-oriented events that are currently occurring around the world.

      Just Sayin.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 1:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      There’s one thing positive about the fundamentalist Christians segregating their children in such universities: fewer Bible-miquoting, theologically-wrong fundies trying to preach their hatred to those of us in secular schools.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 3:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • IonMusic
      IonMusic

      Religion is not healthy nor is it a healthy human trait to be part of a brain washed cult with fabricated stories THAT HAVE YET TO BE PROVEN. Yet, we take our children and force feed religious dogma on them, and go as far as to risk their livelihood when they don’t subscribe to religious (UNPROVEN) ideology. It is all so twisted, wrong and needs to be called out. I respect gay individuals who grew out of their parents brain washing and realized there is so much more to explore in life …such as being a FREE THINKING CITIZEN…as opposed to devoid of any rational, believing a MAN MADE book written ages ago with the principles to be applied in those times.

      Gay folks, young, old and inbetween…..take the religious chains OTHERS have placed on your hands and feet off. Take them off. It is the most liberating moment of your life when you do.

      Be spiritual, be a believer, be a non believer, just be…..SANS puppet master signing you and your thoughts up to a cult that undermines who you are.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 5:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Javier Sanchez
      Javier Sanchez

      I agree with the sentiments that request LGBT to question why they align themselves with an institute that often promotes stripping their rights away? For every pro gay Church you cite, I can name drop thousands of thousands of stories and encounters we’ve all had with people who do think being gay is an abomination. So why be part of that? what are you trying to prove? It’s one thing to be spiritual, it’s another thing to be a gay individual who doesn’t take advantage of the many spiritual outlets (beliefs) out there that don’t stiffle their very existence like religion, notably Christinaity in this story, seems to. Other than trying to seek validation and feel like you are part of something, there is no reason a self respecting gay person would align themselves with organized religion after the many ill commited in the name of religion; and not just independent to gays, but a long history of discrimination advocated by religion toward a great many group of victims throughout history. To be part of that is to endorse it all, including the homophobia.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 5:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • KyleAtlanta
      KyleAtlanta

      Christians have done more to fuel hate, opression, discrimination, and create a competition/divide amongst the human race toward who gets to win and lose. Winners of course being them and going to “heaven” and losers enduring eternal flames. I mean really now, just the thought of that tells you you are dealing with crazies who lack logic, and yet these crazies have, or rather attempt to have, a hold on our government, schools and society. Luckily, the younger generation is seeing the divisiveness and hate preached by religion and branches of Christinaity. It’s far less about love and far more about isolation. Religion is the most lucrative lie told in history and don’t you ever forget it.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 6:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dynex Dog Lover
      Dynex Dog Lover

      @lemon-lime: No, Lemon. You’re sadly mistaken. We are NOT a site that advocates gay youth being virgins because they’ve been told being gay is wrong. You’re nothing short of a zealot who wants his piec of cake and eat it too. Don’t go preaching gays who are closeted because of religious dogma are accepted by our community. Most of our community feels pity for them and would help them OUT of that situation, not reenforce their (unhealthy) desires to remain in it.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 6:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      “…PRIVATE CHRISTIAN school…”

      Next!

      Mar 4, 2011 at 8:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Richard John of Towson
      Richard John of Towson

      I went to a Christian school like this in North Carolina last year that has the same policy and affiliation. They get away with it because it is a private institution. I think you sort of have to get into their minds a bit and see that (even though to society enmasse it is) the institution does not see it that way.It’s how they live their lives, I guess. I am gay but did not let it affect me much. I was lucky enough to have friends near by to help and I often escaped to VA beach to spend weekends away. It did get frustrating at times, so I found relief in surfing. I survived. They’re not as hard-core as this school I guess.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 8:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @Simon: I know exactly who you are. Your churches don’t have instrumental music because there was no report of instruments being played in the New Testament churches. (There’s no mention of air conditioning either but you let that one pass). Your church is a biblical literalist cult. The difference in you and the Mormons is the Mormons have better stories and fuck more.

      And as for you, claiming not to be a homophobe, read what you wrote. You’re as bigoted as anyone who ever posted on here. Sad thing is your fine liberal arts education doesn’t open your eyes, it closes them.

      If you want to learn something about being a Christian, read posts 28 and 29.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 9:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • T3r62u7t8h
      T3r62u7t8h

      Chris

      “I have not seen an adequate explanation as to how this passage does not describe homosexual acts as wrong from a Christian perspective. ”

      Then you haven’t actually read it.

      Paul repeatedly invokes images of idolatry in this passage – he is talking about people having sex as a worship practice.

      Homosexuality is natural, for homosexuals. Heterosexuality is unnatural, for homosexuals.

      “Or maybe even Leviticus”

      You have just bound yourself to all of it – every single law.

      “I am praying for those of you who are here. ”

      If you are praying out of judgment, you are endangering yourself.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 10:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Linnea1928
      Linnea1928

      Just throwing this out there, but there are good religious schools that aren’t like Harding.
      I went to a private lutheran college in South Dakota and loved it. I am NOT religious but chose to go there because it was a small school in a small city; was close to home (about 4 hours); had good programs, including a solid study abroad program; and mostly because I visited and met with several professors and they seemed to really care. It was the right choice for me. I had a really great education–and a really good time–on a loving and open campus. Considering there were only 1800 students, there was a significant gay population. I made many great friends–gay and straight, students and professors–who would all agree that our school embraced its students and staff for who they are. At my college, everyone was welcome, regardless of sexual orientation or religion.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 10:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @Chris: see your rather tolerant attitude is ok in my book. However, the people like Autumn and CRS who come to a GAY SITE to lecture us on the ‘right’ way to live our lives when many of us here scoff at the idea of God is what creates posts like what you see upthread here. Granted, I was drunk last night and had some fun with them, I admit…but still, I meant what I said. If you are tolerant, and agree to disagree, fine. But when people come to derail and lecture and troll? Nobody is going to take kindly to that.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 10:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • T3r62u7t8h
      T3r62u7t8h

      KyleAtlanta

      You are as much a bigot as any homophobe.

      Javier Sanchez

      “I agree with the sentiments that request LGBT to question why they align themselves with an institute that often promotes stripping their rights away?”

      Because there is more to Christianity that the homophobia of some Christians. Because some people chose to change these institutions not with hate like KyleAtlanta, but by refuting anti-gay theology. Because your view of Christianity is based on prejudice and no one else has to live by your prejudice.

      “Other than trying to seek validation and feel like you are part of something, there is no reason a self respecting gay person would align themselves with organized religion after the many ill commited in the name of religion; and not just independent to gays,”

      Homophobes always try to tell us what we feel and think, what our motives and goals are too. You are a bigot, projecting your fantasy onto our lives. Please stop telling lies about us, it makes you look like the brother or sister of all homophobes.

      “To be part of that is to endorse it all, including the homophobia.”

      The overwhelming majority of all crime is committed by males, so to with all prejudices, most of it is expressed and spread by males. Per your false claim above, to be male is to endorse crime and prejudice. And Javier, homophobes make the same argument – they cite NAMBLA, or drag queens, or anything else they find objectionable, and claim that GLBTQ people automatically endorse all such things, just by being gay.

      Bigotry is wrong, even when you direct it at people of faith, and you are no better than the homophobes at Harding, Javier.

      “Religion is not healthy nor is it a healthy human trait to be part of a brain washed cult with fabricated stories THAT HAVE YET TO BE PROVEN.”

      IonMusic

      Homophobes assert that homosexuality is not healthy, and often use the idea of being brain washed, and dismiss the life stories of GLBTQ as fabricated and unproven.

      “It is all so twisted, wrong and needs to be called out.”

      Homophobes say the same thing about homosexuality. You are engaged in bigotry just as much as the administrators at Harding University are.

      “such as being a FREE THINKING CITIZEN”

      Yet your post is filled with typical atheist group-speak, without a single original, or “free thinking” idea.

      Atheism is a prejudice, just like homophobia.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 10:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Francis
      Francis

      All anti-gays are personality disordered.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 11:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chris
      Chris [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @shannon1981,

      It might interest you to know that I still have a desire to convince any one of you to agree with me in my belief that homosexuality is wrong in the eyes of Christianity. Because of what I consider truth I worry about the consequences of not following the words of the Bible.

      However, I would be ignorant to expect to be able to convince everyone to follow what I see (again cf. Romans 1 ha!) as truth. Going about discussing differences in beliefs in a hostile manner almost always accomplishes a grand total of….NOTHING. Also any time that I mistreat someone I disagree with I am being inconsistent with my belief in Christianity because just as heterosexuality is a Biblical principle, so is civility (cf. I Cor. 13:5, II Tim 2:24-26).

      Hopefully you will use this knowledge to help Christians you meet discuss their beliefs the correct way and not just return their mistakes with angry statements that won’t change either their beliefs or the inappropriate way they present them.

      May God bless you.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 2:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Scottie
      Scottie

      I’m a student at Harding. A lot of the glebit students came here because, as they say in the pamphlet, they were True Believers in the Church of Christ and wanted to get better. Some of them left after they realized they couldn’t and some stayed because they would lose too many credits if they transferred. I support the glebit students who made this zine- they have the right to free expression, and although there are WAY WORSE places than Harding to be glebit, it’s not that great and they have a right to protest. The only people the university has blocked from seeing the zine are Harding students, and it’s a real embarrassment. I hope they unblock it- it’s not THAT offensive. I do have a friend who theorizes that the zine, which is 92% heartfelt, 3% angry, and 3% a weensy bit offensive (cartoon penises on one of the ‘sweetheart swings’, cuss words, brief discussion of sex, etc.), was made just offensive enough the Admin would block it, and draw more attention to their cause and to the larger pattern of censorship Harding engages in.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 2:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      @Chris: Paul’s letter was to the Christians of Corinth, not to all Corinthians who practiced other religion. I am neither Corinthian nor Christian, so I am sure that his statements do not apply to me.

      Since we have a separation of Church and State, the Christian attempt to legislate morality in terms of my rights to marry, keep my job, & be protected from discrimination.

      As a private Christan school, Harding has the right to enforce policies affecting the college, but when Christians try to keep me from equal rights, they’ve gone too far.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 2:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @Chris: THe best thing I ever did was get away from the stupid belief that being gay is a sin. I find it absolutely despicable that so many young people are committing suicide due to bigots running riot all over the world. I respect your right to believe as you do, but your claim that my version of love is less than yours falls on deaf ears.

      I do agree that hostility never solves anything. Anger is rarely the right choice, and expressing that anger further derails rational discussion.

      But I think you are in the wrong place. Leave us be, please. I don’t believe in Sky Wizards, and those who spread that crap are doing harm to humanity and perpetuating hate and injustice worldwide. Organized religion is poison to society in my book.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 3:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Paul McMichael
      Paul McMichael

      @Jeffree: @Chris: Arsenokotai and malakoi are not justifiably translated as ‘homosexual’ being unique to Paul, perhaps something vernacular or his own neologism.

      But how does his condemation of pagan temple ritual relate to a prohibition on gay sex?

      If your position or Harding U were honest then in fact, the gay publication would be absolutely fine after all, it is only the ‘acting out’ that you consider sinful. Taking that to extreme, there is nothing wrong with having gay groups in any Christian institution anywhere. It is only the question of sex outside marriage that is a question of morality.

      If gay marriage was allowed, the civil variety, not the religious one, then that would solve even more issues – unless you consider anyone married outside of religious institution to be a sinner too?

      Mar 4, 2011 at 3:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Logan Jones
      Logan Jones

      @CRS:

      Well said! Harding is the most amazing place filled with loving Christians all around campus. This zine seems like nothing more than a pity party. People get kicked out every weekend for breaking other rules like drinking or having sex. I’m sure their Harding experience wasn’t pleasant, but you don’t see them complaining and causing problems. They know they broke the rules and must pay the consequences.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 3:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @Logan Jones: “Amazing place filled with loving people.” That’s exactly what the inhabitants of Jonestown said. Harding teaches people to hate themselves. Nothing is “loving” about that.

      The culture war is over. You lost. The good guys won. You need to move on.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 4:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Injustice is Sin
      Injustice is Sin

      Chris

      “However, I would be ignorant to expect to be able to convince everyone to follow what I see (again cf. Romans 1 ha!) as truth. Going about discussing differences in beliefs in a hostile manner almost always accomplishes a grand total of….NOTHING. Also any time that I mistreat someone I disagree with I am being inconsistent with my belief in Christianity because just as heterosexuality is a Biblical principle, so is civility (cf. I Cor. 13:5, II Tim 2:24-26).”

      The first problem in your point of view, Chris, is that just by declaring that homosexuality to be a sin, you are mistreating GLBTQ people, and your claim that heterosexuality is a Biblical principle is simply false.

      Of course, I covered this already in my prior post, and your failure to address that shows a lack of civility on your part.

      All anti-gay theology, and all expressions of it, no matter how polite, are intrinsically rude and abusive to GLBTQ people.

      Now, for Romans 1, this has been covered slightly earlier, and you apparently ignored it. So, an in depth analysis and repudiation is in order.

      Most homophobes, and anyone who supports anti-gay theology is a homophobe, pick out only a verse or two from Romans chapter 1, as if that conveys the truth, the whole story. That is fraud, though, and fraud is sin, and any theology based on fraud cannot come from God.

      Here is a link to Romans Chapter 1, in the NIV: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+1&version=NIV

      To be accurate, one must at least start at verse 18, though, frankly, verses 16 and 17 pretty much repudiate what homophobes try to prove with Romans 1:26-27, anyways.

      Verses 16 and 17 tell us that it is the power of God that brings salvation, not works. The whole idea that one must be something to please God – be heterosexual, abstain from alcohol, etc, is wrong. But moving on.

      Verses 18-20 point out that the nature of God is readily learned from the creation itself “he creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made”

      So what is clearly seen? The majority of all life on this planet reproduces asexually, not sexually or even heterosexually. Bacteria make up the majority of all life on this planet by numbers, volume and diversity of species. In more complex life forms, most plants are hermaphrodites, many mollusks are, and there are a number of vertebrates that change gender over the course of their lifetime. Homosexuality occurs in nature in thousands of species, it is one of many sexual strategies found in life on earth. What has been made, Chris, is a planet of life that has tremendous diversity in reproductive strategies. One interesting side point is that homosexuality closely correlates with sociality in animals, but is very rare in parasitic animals. The most efficient heterosexual animals on earth are all parasites.

      Homophobia, by the way, is not natural.

      Paul is starting to describe people who reject God, and how they have no excuse for their rejection of God. Verses 21 through 25 develop Paul’s context further, very specifically describing people who engage in idolatry.

      “exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. ”

      This is the context, the situation, the setting, for Paul’s subsequent denunciations. Paul is not describing just anyone, and his rebuke does not apply to just anyone. Paul is writing about people with a false, fabricated understanding of God – a god made in their own image.

      Then we get the passages that homophobes rip out of context, 26 and 27, even though 26 begins with the concept ‘therefore’ or ‘for this cause’ – explicitly stating that what follows is the result of idolatry.

      “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.”

      First, homosexuality is natural for homosexuals, as heterosexuality is natural for heterosexuals. So homosexuals, of either gender, cannot and do not “exchange” or “abandon” what is natural when they have sex with someone of their own gender.

      In fact, what you appear to advocate, and what Harding University, homophobes in general, and ex-gay ministries all advocate – that homosexuals change into heterosexuals – is a case of ‘exchanging natural sexual relations for unnatural ones’. The reality is that anti-gay theology is the modern equivalent of the religious practice that Paul was actually condemning in his letter to the church in Rome.

      See, archaeologists have documented that a fertility religion existed in the Roman empire during Paul’s life. This religion worshipped the goddess Cybele and her consort Attis, and some of the practices were extreme by today’s standards. Priests and priestesses took on the role or channeled Cybele (particularly) and had sex with worshipers to invoke the goddess’s blessing of fertility. Priests dressed as Cybele, “became” her, and engaged in primarily male worshipers as an act of obedience to their goddess. Some also castrated themselves and got extremely drunk to invoke Attis.

      This is the practice Paul is writing about. Not homosexuals in general, and probably not even at all. There is even graffiti accusing one priest of Cybele of cheating on his goddess with his tongue by servicing women orally.

      This passage describes people, probably mostly if not always heterosexuals, acting out sexually as a worship practice in ways that they would not have, that were unnatural for them, otherwise.

      Which is exactly what anti-gay theology demands of GLBTQ people. Homophobes have a false god – the god of heterosexual superiority – and they demand that GLBTQ sacrifice our bodies by engaging in unnatural for us sexual practices – under pain of discrimination, hate speech, death threats, imprisonment, torture and even death.

      And the story doesn’t end at verse 27. Verses 28-32 describe the horrible behavior of such people, and frankly, it far better matches that of homophobes than homosexuals. One need only consider Fred Phelps, whose message is identical to that of any other religious homophobe, to see “They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. ”

      These qualities are also evident in the actions taken by the administration of Harding University, and in every other anti-gay church and organization.

      And we still haven’t reached the end, because Paul did not write in chapters, and his point continues into chapter 2:
      “You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. ”

      Romans 1: 18-32 is not about homosexuality or homosexuals per se, but it absolutely does apply to anyone who teaches anti-gay theology, or any theology that makes righteousness or God’s favor contingent on some form of sexuality. It is about Harding University, and the Catholic Church, and Fred Phelps, and the Southern Baptist convention, etc.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 4:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Injustice is Sin
      Injustice is Sin

      Now Chris, in my opinion, you came dangerously close to committing fraud when you cited I Cor. 13:5. Once again, you ripped a passage out of context. Here’s a link to the whole chapter:

      http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+13&version=NIV

      This is the “Love” chapter, and it has three main themes. First, it declares that no matter what miracles or good works one performs, without love, they are worthless:

      “If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing. ”

      All the compliments written about Harding University, and all of the accomplishments of its defenders, are worthless, because Harding University teaches hate.

      The next part of I Cor. 13 is a description of what love really is, and to be utterly blunt with you – your view of homosexuality completely fails that description. Anti-gay theology completely fails it.

      “4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

      8 Love never fails.”

      These aforementioned positive qualities – patience, kindness, etc. are completely missing from anti-gay theology. There is no kindness in calling us “Abominations” or equating our relationships with murder, or invoking a death threat in the form of Leviticus 20:13. Such claims dishonor GLBTQ people, and are self-seeking – made to exalt heterosexuality as special and preferred. Anti-gay theology delights in evil and rejects the truth of the lives and spirituality of GLBTQ people. Anti-gay theology does not protect, it persecutes, it destroys trust and hope.

      The last part of I Cor. 13 reminds us that our current knowledge and understanding is transitory, it will pass away. What will remain is faith, hope and love – qualities that do not exist, at all, in anti-gay theology.

      As for II Tim 2:24-26, again, you’ve taken it out of context. Here’s a link to the whole chapter: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Timothy+2&version=NIV

      There are important points you are skipping, Chris, like:

      “Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. ” Isn’t all anti-gay theology little more than a quarrel about words designed to malign millions of human beings?

      “Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. ” Anti-gay theology not only drives some people away from God completely, it drives some people who claim to be Christians to commit hate crimes, to create injustice, to persecute, slander, libel and discriminate against other human beings, other children of God.

      “22 Flee the evil desires of youth and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. ”

      How exactly were you pursuing righteousness when you malign GLBTQ people, how were you pursuing faith when you value who someone has sex with over their character, how were you showing love when you equated our loving relationships with murder?

      Frankly, by posting here at all, you disobeyed the very verses you cited.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 5:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      @Paul McMichael. Please do not lump me in the same category as Chris. I support marriage equality & I am not Christian.

      I do have some Christian friends who also support SGM — because their reading of the Bible is very different from how Chris & Harding interpret it.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 5:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Simon
      Simon

      I’m so glad I CHOOSE to be straight and I don’t make CHOICES that other people can hold against me. Christians are no longer the bigoted people in this “war” which apparently we lost when nobody knew it was happening. And people need to stop throwing around the word “bigot” in ignorance. The word is used to describe someone who is intolerant of other lifestyles. It seems to me that the lesbian/gay/bigender/transvestite/confused/misguided community is less tolerant of our Christian lifestyle than we are of theirs. If you know anything about the Church of Christ, which justiceontherocks clearly doesn’t, you’d know that there has been a huge change in the way we operate in recent years. We still don’t approve of the lifestyle but we don’t condemn it. It is not our place to do so.

      We are instructed to love everyone and we do so. And don’t give me crap about Joe or Rick or whoever you want to make an example of, saying that they mistreated someone because they were queer or whatever your excuse is. Not every institution is perfect at every seam. We understand that there are flaws in our thinking, so we accommodated our lifestyles without assimilating queerdom into the Kingdom.

      Justiceontherocks said that we’re a biblical literalist cult. I almost want to take that as a compliment. We believe as a pillar of our faith that the bible is the ineffable word of God. If your view of us is that we follow our text to the extent of being a literalist cult, then we have achieved what we have strived for.

      Justiceontherocks said we don’t have instrumental music “because there was no report of instruments being played in the New Testament churches.” Again, clearly an uneducated statement. Please stop saying mean things about my religion when you don’t even know what you’re talking about. I’m saying this to try and help you because you’re on the verge of making yourself look stupid and I don’t want others to discredit everything you’ve said because of one small ignorant rant. I think what you are saying is important for everyone to hear. The Church of Christ might have initially crafted their worship around how they believed the New Testament churches held their services. We do not believe that instrumental accompaniment is a sin. We simply prefer to hear the beauty in the voices that God gave us as we raise them to Him in praise. It’s preference. I go to a conservative Christian university. I worship every morning at 9 by lifting my voice a cappella. On Sundays, I attend Fellowship Church, which has an entire worship ensemble complete with keyboards, singers, guitars, drums, etc. On my weekend outings, I go to hardcore/metal shows and lift my voice to God in a much different way. It is not correct to say that the Church of Christ asserts instrumental accompaniment as “wrong.”

      Mar 4, 2011 at 5:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      You know, to all the Harding advocates posting here, here is my word: Until you know what it is like to sit there, like I did, with your fathers .38 to your temple and contemplate ending it all, DO NOT TELL US HOW WE SHOULD LIVE OUR LIVES. People like you almost cost me my LIFE. Because I couldn’t take it anymore. The second I realized that I shouldn’t pull that trigger is the second I realized how harmful organized religion is. Don’t judge until you walk a mile in my shoes. And you can’t, because you aren’t gay in a society that condemns the very core of what you are. My word is better and more truthful than your book’s word will ever be. Go away. Leave us be. We don’t need you here trolling a gay blog full of gay people. I assure you it isn’t appreciated. If you don’t like us exposing your bigotry, stop being bigots. The End.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 5:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @Simon: I held a gun to my head when I was 13 because of what people like you taught me. You people taught me I was an abomination for just being the way I am. Until you walk a mile in my shoes, stop judging. Doesn’t your book say not to judge? Listen to it, and in the meantime stay off gay blogs. Your opinions aren’t wanted by 99% of the people here, I assure you.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 5:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      @Simon: Before trolling with such a comment please make sure that your objectîons havent already been dealt with.

      I encourage you to read posts by “Injustice is Sin” who already addressed your points with a much more solid grasp of theology and Biblical interpretation than you seem able to muster up. Learn from that commenter so you can avoid further distancing yourself from the ineffable word of God.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 6:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      Why I keep getting flagged, I don’t know, but seriously, Simon: Injustice is Sin is an expert on the Word, if you choose to live by the Word. I don’t but his version of the bible is a lot better than yours.

      I hate that people like you judge us. When you try to off yourself for being what you are when society says you’re a deviant like I did, call me. Until then…fuck off.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 6:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @Simon: You think you choose to be straight? Then you are the definition of ignorant.

      I stand by what I wrote about your cult’s position on instrumental music in worship services. Your own “explanation,” which is mostly gibberish, proves the point. I notice you don’t answer the charge that women are excluded from positions of authority in your cult. Do you deny that.

      Finally, you have some nerve calling gay people “misguided.” We’re not the ones who think the earth is 7,000 years old and that God created it in seven literal 24 hour days.

      I believe you have a Kool-Aid party to go to. Enjoy.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 6:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Injustice is Sin
      Injustice is Sin [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Simon

      “Christians are no longer the bigoted people in this “war” which apparently we lost when nobody knew it was happening.”

      Many Christians are not – they have studied and rejected anti-gay theology, recognizing that it inherently contradicts Christ’s own teachings. One could make the case that no “real” Christian – no one seriously committed to following Christ, can be a bigot.

      But many people who claim to be Christians are bigots, and not just about homosexuality. And anyone who promotes anti-gay theology, anyone who says ‘homosexuality is sin’, is a bigot.

      As for ‘war . . . no one knew it was happening’ – more than one fundamentalist homophobe has declared open war on gays and lesbians.

      “And people need to stop throwing around the word “bigot” in ignorance.”

      No one here is using it in ignorance, and your implied accusation is sin on your part. It is also a rude and abusive dismissal – rather than acknowledge the truth we are presenting, you simply, out of your own ego, ignore what we have to say.

      “The word is used to describe someone who is intolerant of other lifestyles.”

      No. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigot
      “a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion”

      Are you being deceitful, or just ignorant?

      Further, homosexuality is not a lifestyle, Simon. That particular characterization is deeply offensive, it reduces our lives, our innate capacity for love, to something as trivial as whether one recycles or not.

      “It seems to me that the lesbian/gay/bigender/transvestite/confused/misguided community is less tolerant of our Christian lifestyle than we are of theirs.”

      Your characterization above is sin, Simon. First, there is the sin of pride – not the healthy “I am a child of God with purpose and value” pride, but the unhealthy, sinful pride of “Other people are intrinsically and completely inferior to me” kind of pride. The fact that we refute your lies about our lives, and refute your mistaken conclusions about the Bible, and the fact that we fall in love with someone of our own gender, or experience gender differently than you do, does not make us confused.

      It just means we are different from you. And that does not make us inferior to you, at all.

      Further, while there are folks like tallskin2 who malign religion and people of faith, they do so not because of their presumed sexual orientation, or even because of the persecution of homosexuals, but, like you, like all bigots, they do it to stroke their own ego.

      “If you know anything about the Church of Christ,”

      There are many places that call themselves “the Church of Christ”. Is this your place? http://church-of-christ.org/

      If it is, then it lies about millions of people, and that means that it is not, truly, a place of people who follow Jesus Christ.

      Now, the description from Wikipedia:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churches_of_Christ

      certainly creates the impression of a dogmatic, literalist, simplistic theology that tends to affirm the more selfish and egotistical components of its followers lives.

      Glancing over that material, I find a great deal that is not in accord with what Christ taught.

      “It is not correct to say that the Church of Christ asserts instrumental accompaniment as “wrong.” ”

      Then perhaps you and your peers should revise the wikipedia article, for it states:

      “The Churches of Christ generally combine the lack of any historical evidence that the early church used musical instruments in worship[11]:237–238[22]:47[60]:415 and the belief that there is no scriptural support for using instruments in the church’s worship service[1][11]:244–246 to decide that instruments should not be used today in worship. Churches of Christ have historically practiced a cappella music in worship services.[1][9]:240[10]:124

      There are congregations that permit hand-clapping and a few that use musical instruments in worship.[9]:240[60]:417[61] Some of the latter describe themselves as a “Church of Christ (Instrumental)”.[48]:667″

      By the way, the Bible has many references about celebrating God that invoke bells, cymbals, horns, and other musical instruments.

      2 Samuel 6:5
      David and all Israel were celebrating with all their might before the LORD, with castanets, harps, lyres, timbrels, sistrums and cymbals.

      1 Chronicles 15:16
      David told the leaders of the Levites to appoint their fellow Levites as musicians to make a joyful sound with musical instruments: lyres, harps and cymbals.

      Psalm 150:4-6
      4 praise him with timbrel and dancing,
      praise him with the strings and pipe,
      5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,
      praise him with resounding cymbals.

      6 Let everything that has breath praise the LORD.

      Praise the LORD.

      Leviticus 23:24
      “Say to the Israelites: ‘On the first day of the seventh month you are to have a day of sabbath rest, a sacred assembly commemorated with trumpet blasts.

      Numbers 10:8
      “The sons of Aaron, the priests, are to blow the trumpets. This is to be a lasting ordinance for you and the generations to come.

      Numbers 10:10
      Also at your times of rejoicing—your appointed festivals and New Moon feasts—you are to sound the trumpets over your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, and they will be a memorial for you before your God. I am the LORD your God.

      Psalm 71:22
      I will praise you with the harp for your faithfulness, my God; I will sing praise to you with the lyre, Holy One of Israel.

      Psalm 144:9
      I will sing a new song to you, my God; on the ten-stringed lyre I will make music to you,

      There are plenty more where those came from. You might consider the possibility that your denomination has made more than one mistake in their interpretation of Scripture, Simon.

      “We still don’t approve of the lifestyle but we don’t condemn it. It is not our place to do so.”

      Homosexuality is not a lifestyle, neither is heterosexuality.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 7:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      @Injustice is Sin: Thank you. Even if Simon doesn’t respond, many people of faith may be helped by what you write.

      If you write —or have written— a book, I’d read it. And hand it out!

      Mar 4, 2011 at 7:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @Injustice is Sin: You and I have had our differences from time to time. Maybe we will again. But your reply here is so spot on, beautifully written and well researched on every point I had to congratulate and thank you.

      Simon, CRS and their ilk never woke up to the day that they were a tenth as good a Christian, or 1/100the as good a person, as you. A tip of the hat to you.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 8:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheRealAdam
      TheRealAdam

      @Simon: You make me sick. You have no place here, you pathetic little Xtian rodent.

      Mar 4, 2011 at 8:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      @Autumn: morals are the garb used to disguise ugliness of a bigot’s soul.

      Mar 5, 2011 at 9:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jerry
      jerry

      Same problem at Pepperdine in California. I communicate my view for the sake of those who take their life or suffer in silence:

      Dear Mr. Benton, et al

      I haven’t gotten a response from Lou Cozolino. Is he OK? Is he on vacation or teaching abroad? He is a kind and thoughtful person and I’m sure that he would normally reply to a note, if for no other reason, to say “Hi.”

      thanks
      jerry lewis

      —————————————————————–

      Dear Lou Cozolino,

      I appreciate what I read in the Huffington Post regarding your opinion about sex and mental disorders. “Hypersexuality,” or whatever you want to call too much of the wrong kind of sex behavior, of course pertains to gay or straight orientations.

      As you must know, your school has seriously hurt the cause of monogamy and commitment through marriage for gay people, exacerbating the difficulties in adjustment for gay individuals. By sending lawyers to promote & defend prop 8 and to make hurtful propogandistic commercials wherein the gay person is out to “get” or recruit, or harm children, Pepperdine fuels suicides to this day by legitimizing all forms of hate & discrimination. And before you too give me the schpiel (I like to think it’s a Yiddish word) that Pepperdine tried not to be involved in prop 8 & that legal threats ensued, remember that neither you or I have access to any such documentation, and really, I just think the story professors got to doll out were misleading and platitudinous (possibly a neologism there).

      Haven’t you been able to influence the brutish religious climate there regarding this one issue? Frankly, I’m dissapointed to learn that you still work there. In your class you had stated that you disagreed with the administration’s legal prohibition against having a GSA on campus, and with all that’s transpired, it pains me to know how you must continually compromise your values or psychically defend against the fact that you contribute to this continuous harming of gay folks, by your work frequently patholigizing sex or diversity.

      In fact, long ago now, when I had suggested having a hug-in (not even a kiss-in or anything controversial or untoward) for just one gay couple on campus to your boss Mr. Benton, he flipped out and called me manic, which taken in context with your view today in the Huff Post, suggests that the administration there is contented with using your ideas about bipolar disorder to globally pigeonhole all gays. Calling people crazy willy-nillly, especially when it’s done by people of authority seems to me to be the “sin” and can lead to havoc and destruction. When did it become OK to you to work for religious bullys?

      When I worked at Catholic Charities my boss/supervisor, Dr. Beverly Frank, related to me how the administration at Pepperdine forced her to sign off for practicum credit even though the female student, whose parents had threatened to sue the school, had no, zero, client contact hours. To her credit, Dr. Frank vowed never to work there again. Your employer can sue me for revealing this now, but Tinnie Taylor, Ms. Weber, et. al. should know how lonely the courtroom witness stand is for those who prevaricate.

      When I took your class you struck me as kind of gay; The impression I got was that you had had an intimate or homosexual relationship in the past, althhough you got married to a gal. My sexuality radar is failrly accurate–& if you’ve read @ gaydar in studies, the studies on radar show people are on average good at this–me, just invite me as the jugmental fellow on Jay Leno. Also, by the way you related your treatment with some neighhbor’s kids in applying physical soothing (sorry the story gets short thrift here due to time constraints) and your declining to give grades for the students in your class, and your drawing a shopping cart to explain your dread of poverty, suggested to me that the issues that brought you to psychology had been a narcisstic tendency, along with stubborn boundary issues. I would go further now, having read a book of yours, and armed with your commitment to the physiology, that you’re dramically committed to finding cures for cases that are talk therapy failures, particuarily when the failure is in your office. How’m I doing?

      Dr. Barbara Ingram came to psychology to find out what the hell had happened to her. Due to childhood abuse, her uncle or father figure repeatedly threatening to burn her with a cigar, which terrified her, and the ugly treatment I think a lot of Jewish families give to girls in neglect and cruel jokes, led her to feel bad, and made her abusive. I’ve seen her fly into a momentary rage in practicum, apologizing one minute later, and I’ve seen how she hurt an male India student’s feelings so bad with teasing during group, cruel jokes so hurtful that he left the psy program. She’s got a serious sadistic streak, which, me being gay and all, means that I like her….gay men often like the Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Golden girls of the world, and It was a grave sacrifice for me to lose her friendship because she wanted to defend Pepperduine’s indefensible policies. Since I warned Weber and Ingram of the bullying of gay youth two years ago, at least 6 teens have died by suicide due to mistreatment of the type Pepperdine refuses to make any changes about.

      I could go on, and on. While the humanity of teachers is vital in this process of training therapists, so too is the teaching environment and the humanity of the students–serious shortcomings exist in these areas there where you serve. I’ve gone to and worked at community colleges that were more rigorous and less nutty.

      In the coming weeks and months Pepperdine as an institution will no doubt continue to try and discredit me & activists, in the main it seems by labeling me mentallly ill one way or another. I hope you find enough integrity to not partake, or to get used in this discriminatory and pursecutorial defense of the the school’s administration, who for the most part are concerned more with survival, profit, and reputation than they are about doing right by others, and especially we lgbt people.

      take care,
      your student
      jerry lewis

      Mar 5, 2011 at 6:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • lemon-lime
      lemon-lime

      @Dynex Dog Lover: Sorry, mate, but you’re the one who is, sadly, mistaken.

      I don’t think it’s productive to only welcome gay’s we agree with into our community. All gay’s should be welcome, whether they choose to be celibate for their whole lives because they believe Nermal from Garfield is our lord and savior or carry around a peacock on their head all day long. I don’t care. They came here and posted for a reason, and we should be supportive so they have a chance to see that we’re a diverse and intelligent community. That’s how you effect change. That’s how you change people’s minds. Not by pushing them away and calling them idiots or religious nut jobs.

      Why push folks away that need our help, bro? Are you afraid of what you don’t understand?

      For the record, I grew out of it. I’m not self-loathing any more. I’m in an awesome relationship with my man and I figured out God doesn’t care about my sexual orientation. And it wasn’t because of people with attitudes like you, that’s for damn sure.

      Mar 6, 2011 at 6:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Troy
      Troy

      Tired of uneducated people posting crap. HArding has specific rules about ALL premarital sex. This is NOT an attack against gays. They do not allow students to engage in anything listed as a sin in the Bible. All “Sex’ oriented websites are blocked not jsu tgay sites

      Mar 6, 2011 at 10:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ithinktoomuch
      ithinktoomuch

      @Daine: First off, a lot of kids are still questioning when they go off to College. It’s a similar story for a lot of gay kids who end up in the army. They’re just so young. Secondly, a lot of these kids are getting support from home ONLY for a religious right-wing institution. So asking about public institutions in this case is not really all that helpful to the conversation.

      Mar 6, 2011 at 10:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Injustice is Sin
      Injustice is Sin [Different person #2 using similar name]

      Troy

      “Tired of uneducated people posting crap.”
      So why did you post?

      “HArding has specific rules about ALL premarital sex. This is NOT an attack against gays.”

      Sure it is – anti-gay theology is absolutely an attack on GLBTQ people. Please, don’t lie about it by invoking red herring arguments about premarital sex.

      “They do not allow students to engage in anything listed as a sin in the Bible.”

      Homosexuality is not listed as a sin in the Bible. Injustice is consistently condemned, as is lying/bearing false witness.

      “All “Sex’ oriented websites are blocked not jsu tgay sites””

      Assuming that gay sites are sex orientated is bearing false witness. Please repent.

      Frankly, Troy, your characterization that everyone who has criticized the prejudice at Harding as “uneducated” is sin on your part, and it proves that this issue is about prejudice, not Christ.

      Mar 7, 2011 at 12:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Heather
      Heather

      @CRS:

      “I am saddened by this shameful behavior by people who are selfish in trying to push their agenda and showing a total disregard for other peoples beliefs.”

      I am saddened that people who don’t know any better and haven’t walked a mile in their shoes see fit to judge things they do not understand. This is not about forcing your beliefs on others; it’s about forcing others to accept the person that God made.

      “They are not judging, but loving them by trying to save them from eternal punishment and they do that just as much for people committing other sins as they do for those who are homosexual.”

      They absolutely ARE judging; the rules you speak of are the instrument of that judgment.

      “lifestyle and then choosing to throw a fit because you want to force them to accept you. That in itself is wrong!”

      This is not a “lifestyle”, it’s a life — no different than yours. The Catholic church used to persecute left-handed people because of ambiguous bible verses. It is only a matter of time before this policy also goes into the “shameful things the church has done in the past” pile.

      It is never wrong to assert and stand up for who you are.

      Mar 7, 2011 at 11:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Heather
      Heather

      @Chris:

      “My problem with it all is Romans 1. I have not seen an adequate explanation as to how this passage does not describe homosexual acts as wrong from a Christian perspective.

      Because I hold the Bible to be true I base worldviews off of it. For you to reason with me about this you must either explain to me why the Bible says something different or why I shouldn’t believe the Bible.

      If you try to explain this to me realize that I also believe that…
      The Bible had one author. Giving another scripture does not necessarily refute this one. I will merely try to balance the two thinking of them as having both come from God.”

      Wow, Chris. Wow. Learn some history dude.

      Google the First Counsel of Nicaea. The bible has dozens, if not *hundreds* of authors, ranging from 2000 years prior to Christ’s birth to four hundred years afterward. You might also have a read of Karen Armstrong’s “A History of God”.

      Believing that the bible somehow appeared on a rock one day in the bright sunshine and has been unchanged since this is incredibly naive. Many of the most pivotal chapters did not even exist in written form for hundreds of years, instead passed down as an oral history. Crucially, it has been translated and re-translated from the original languages. The word “homosexual” doesn’t even exist in Attic Greek.

      You want to be a spiritual warrior? Start by uncovering the truth. It’s not what you’ve been taught by those whose agenda is to control you.

      Mar 7, 2011 at 11:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Oli
      Oli

      @Autumn: Mate your faith is bullshit. There is no reason to believe any of it. No evidence for any of it. It is total and utter rubbish. Why on earth do you believe it? Especially when it causes so many people such anguish. Either way. You will lose. People who have views as honestly RIDICULOUS as you are on the wrong side of history. There probably is no heaven or hell. There probably isn’t a god. The bible is a story book written by various people at various times, it is almost entirely fictional. Learn some stuff. Either way, you are breaching the tenets of your ridiculous “faith” by being so judgmental and cruel to gay people. Surely you should leave the judgment to your imaginary fairy god and get on with your own small minded, prejudiced and unkind life.

      Mar 8, 2011 at 5:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Oli
      Oli

      @Stanley: Hey. “practicing homosexuality”. Um I don’t really know where to start. I think the situation you’re in must be very difficult and I just want to say that I totally wish you the best and every happiness. Its such a shame to have all the wonders of love and life with a partner denied to you because of something you have no control over. If there is a god, I truly believe they/it/he/she would want you to be happy. I don’t know anything about you or your circumstances but I want to say that you really can live such a happy life in a relationship with any partner you choose. It isn’t wrong, you’re not wrong, its the people who tell you its wrong that are wrong. I hope you can come to accept that your feelings are perfectly normal, natural and can lead you to a happy and fulfilled life someday. I really hope life isn’t too much of a struggle for you. You REALLY are worthy.

      Mar 8, 2011 at 5:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Liz F.
      Liz F.

      I went to this university twenty years ago. If a student was gay, that student was required to go through counseling at the university counseling center. They were told they had to “convert” to being heterosexual. Students as young as 18 were also told they should marry as soon as possible. This ideal was constantly promoted in chapel lectures and Bible classes. “You are here to find a mate”. Individuality and critical thinking were discouraged; the only character trait considered valuable was obedience to authority.

      Women were told they were inferior. Many female students were subtly discouraged from majoring in certain degree programs at the university. Modest dress codes were strictly enforced. Women who weren’t married or engaged by graduation were made to feel like losers, unwanted spinsters.

      Many of those who married while students at Harding, are now divorced. How responsible is it to tell 18-22 year olds that they need to hurry up and get married? And what about students who attend college for other reasons besides finding a mate? Some of us actually wanted to get an education! Instead, we were brainwashed every day with daily chapel sessions, forced counseling in some cases, constant Bible classes (required at Harding), devotionals and constant lectures about how we needed to hurry up and find a spouse.

      Sadly, most students attend this university because of pressure from their parents and families. The Church of Christ is a cult. Unless you grew up in the cult of the Church of Christ, you cannot understand! You cannot understand the pressure that people are under to attend these Church of Christ schools. In many cases, they are told its almost essential to their salvation. In other cases, they will be disowned by their parents if they don’t go to a Church of Christ college. Some students will claim they chose to go here, but they really didn’t. It wasn’t a truly free choice. I didn’t understand until years later.

      There were things that went on at Harding years ago, that still make my skin crawl to think about. Yes, I could post them here, but I don’t want to be accused of lying.

      Apr 1, 2011 at 12:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GaymerChik85
      GaymerChik85

      So in a nutshell, Christianity is the belief that humans are a divine virus, placed on Earth by God, with the sole purpose of reproducing more of our own kind until we out-number and dominate every other living thing on this rock.

      That is why the Bible suggests that homosexuality is contrary to nature, and that God would not have designed human beings to do anything that would inhibit procreation.

      Ah, but here’s the rub; evolution.

      Evolution is the force that drives all living things to adapt to their ever changing environments. If humans didn’t genetically evolve we would have gone extinct a long time ago.

      There are roughly seven billion people all existing at the same time on a finite amount of land. So who’s to say that homosexuality isn’t actually Nature’s way of slowing our population’s exponential increase?

      Maybe some of us have the innate desire to copulate with members of our own sex simply because there are already enough “breeders” around. Our species can continue to reproduce, just at a slightly slower rate than if EVERY one of us was heterosexual.

      I am neither a scientist nor a theologian, I am one person among billions. My thoughts may intrigue you or they may incite you to anger. Either way, I am glad that I am free to express them.

      Apr 3, 2011 at 4:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • greenmusic23f
      greenmusic23f

      Dear Injustice Is Sin: I don’t know if you check back on old articles, but thank you so much for your posts on this topic!

      Jul 1, 2011 at 7:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • YC
      YC

      if want a to be a G! please consider transfer to a open mind school.

      as a student in harding i hope all of us, doing things straight!!

      Sep 6, 2011 at 9:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • emmitt campbell
      emmitt campbell

      when men desire men to lay with , its got to be un natural.
      in this world it difficult to say thing are wrong even when they are.
      i would hope to be strong enough not to go against the word of God by choice.
      difficult as it may be for the homosexuals , there’s no excuse good enough to ignore .
      plain as it is, if a homosexual can avoid what God says about the end of such a people , well then they will not seek to be natural. and yes i do believe in “weakness of the flesh” i also believe in seeking to overcome. (if the desire is not there its seems usless) . so the homosexuals seek a society who will with open arms say” we accept you”.
      saying ” you dont have to seek to over come your sickness” “your un natural way”.
      wanting a society who will weaken the Godly stand , so that we stand for their sickness.
      then i will say, there be many sicknesses , much hard to overcome , this is one of them , homosexuals ! and the word of God plainly teaches the mind set . i choose to please God. I hope i never make an effort to justify homosexuality. even if the world hate me , reject me or avoid me ! i stand with the word of God. homosexuality is sin.

      Mar 8, 2012 at 9:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 28scotland
      28scotland

      My parents wonder why I’m not going to go to Harding University. Since my dad works for Harding, it’s expected that me and my brothers would go to Harding. I’ve decided not to go to Harding for a few reasons:
      1. It’s too expensive and I don’t have any money.
      2. They are so narrow-minded.
      3. I have been around Harding for half my life and I’m sick of it.
      4. They have no courses in what I’m interested in.
      5. They force people who don’t believe as they do to conform or face expulsion.
      6. They try to reach far into your life with their rules: their rules on alcohol.

      I understand what they believe, but it’s not their place to expel people because they had alcohol out of county, outside of school, outside of school session.

      Harding seriously sucks. If you want to go to Harding, change your mind. They’ll turn you into their little robot and if you don’t conform, you’re expelled.

      May 27, 2013 at 12:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • pegshon
      pegshon

      The fact that a university doesn’t allow adults to dance should be a major red flag to just about anyone who is considering attending this school. That’s right – they consider dancing a sin. That means if you visited a different college and attended a formal dance, and someone found out, you could be expelled from the university.

      Jun 29, 2014 at 6:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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