Various vigilante groups in Istanbul are threatening repercussions if a Pride march takes place on June 26.
Kürsat Mican, the head of the Anatolia Muslim Youth Association, told officials, “don’t make us struggle with these [people]. Either you do what’s necessary or we will. We will take all the risks and we will stop the march.
“We definitely don’t want them to walk naked on the sacred soil of our country in the blessed month of Ramadan,” he went on. “We are issuing a warning and we are not responsible for what will happen after this point.”
Of course, it’s important to point out that he doesn’t speak for the majority of Muslims, any more than the Rabbi who stabbed people at Jerusalem Pride speaks for all Jews, or the KKK represents all Christians.
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Another group called The Alperen Hearths issued a statement promising similar violence: “the Alperen Hearths, who are the representatives of the people, will perform their duties on this soil which was passed to us from our ancestors. Our reaction will be very clear and harsh. Things they are mocking us by ignoring our values in this holy month.”
Was that a typo in the last sentence? A mistranslation? Either way it’s hard to miss their meaning.
It’s unclear if the march will go forward at this point. At least one politician, Republican People’s Party Deputy Chair Selin Sayek Böke is trying to calm the situation. “We are monitoring this,” she said. “We must all live together with our differences.”
Last year’s Pride in Istanbul was marred by a police crackdown that included rubber bullets and water cannons fired at marchers.
It’s a harsh reminder that violence in the United States may be rare and traumatic. But internationally, it’s a much more frequent problem. Russia in particular has seen massive protests and assaults against LGBTs simply trying to peaceably assemble. It’s more important than ever to talk about why Pride matters, and the lessons that Stonewall has for those still oppressed to this day.
Billy Budd
In these countries Pride really MEANS something. It is not just like another carnival.
Stache
“Our reaction will be very clear and harsh. Things they are mocking us by ignoring our values in this holy month.”
Just that reaction alone makes you deserving of being mocked.
Daniel-Reader
Of late, the government of Turkey has followed the path the fascists did in Italy back in WW II unfortunately. Sad to see it unable to sustain a democracy with human rights.
o.codone
What’s it going to take for gays to get it. Islam has come for you. This is war gentlemen. Not the kind of war you’re used to, you know that fresh-mouth war like you see in the movies. This is a war where the enemy is not afraid of you and will shoot you dead in a second. This is a war where you need a gun and political convictions. In this war you cannot vote for the politicians who will bring the enemy into your community. Obama has brought-in a million muslims. They hate you and want you dead. Hillary has pledged to do the same. As a gay man you cannot vote for Hillary Clinton. American politics have changed forever because of Islam. No more vote the party line. Get smart, protect yourself. Hillary has to return the money she took from muslim, anti-gay countries and then she has to re-cant her commitment to bring in more of these ghouls. Leave these 7th century apes where they are.
Tobi
Turkey is one of the reasons why many people in the UK will vote out in the EU Referendum next week. Mother Merkel wants to give them all visa-free access to the EU and fast track their membership. This is also partly to blame for the huge surge in right-wing and far-right parties in the rest of Europe. In the meantime, one of Turkey’s national papers headlined the Orlando tragedy as “Fifty Perverts Killed in Bar” and others have repeatedly labelled us as deviants. http://d.pr/oVTx
IDoNotHaveToAgreeWithYou
Just goes to prove here is no civilized muslim country. The cult and all in it are our enemies.
Xzamilio
“Of course, it’s important to point out that he doesn’t speak for the majority of Muslims, any more than the Rabbi who stabbed people at Jerusalem Pride speaks for all Jews, or the KKK represents all Christians.”
It’s not important to note that… it’s become a non-sequitur. You notice how you have to appeal to the KKK (a group that has had no power or influence for almost 50 years) and the Jewish rabbi, as though that is equivalent to the dozens of brutal attacks and massacres at the hands of ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Hezbollah, etc, and lone Islamic radicals? Enough of this shit. I also notice with stories involving Christians, there’s no appeal to Islam or Judaism… no, we have no problem cutting down the crazy ass batshit Jesus freaks without making distinctions, but the regressive mentality comes out swinging when it comes to Islam.
Fuis Cklam
Xzamilio
And I’m an atheist and anti-theist… I loathe these religions equally, but realize that they are not equal at all when it comes to violence and oppression. Obviously, living in America, Christian fundamentalists are a bigger problem than Muslim fundamentalists. But, worldwide? Girl, bye… Islam wins.
Hussain-TheCanadian
@Xzamilio: I would have thought as an Atheist, you’d be using logic more so than anything else, but it seems emotions are the engine behind your above post. I personally think if one is to break down your above points, it won’t stand to scrutiny, and it’s a shame that you’ve allowed a bigot such as Sam Harris to influence you like this.
Hussain-TheCanadian
@IDoNotHaveToAgreeWithYou: Are you under the impression that the above comments make you civilized? Because if you’re an American, you’re the last one on here who should be talking about being civilized.
Also, why aren’t you “outraged” over what the Russian and Chinese governments are going?
Malcolm Forest
@Xzamilio: I totally agree. Muslim fundamentalists are the biggest threat that exists to the GLBT community. I really don’t understand why other GLBT people cannot agree on this obvious point.
There are some areas/countries in the world where if you declare youself to be Out and Proud and a GLBT person, you will be quickly murdered. These are all regions under the control of Muslim fundamentalists.
I despise all religion. I think mankind needs to move on and progress beyond that crutch.
I despise Christian fundamentalists too. They cause a lot of harm to the GLBT community also. But I am not aware of them controlling any region in the world actively murdering GLBT people.
Xzamilio
@Hussain-TheCanadian: Well, then be that one. Break it down for me.
GC1985
@Malcolm Forest: All fundamentalists are a threat to the community.
And some of us won’t kiss republican ass because we have more dignity. It’s just that simple.
Alistair Wiseman
Hey, wait minute! But I thought President Obama and Democrats believe it’s a gun control problem?
You have got to love Democrats, if they weren’t so dangerous. The hilarious article below is about the liberal icon, The New York Times, trying to figure out the motive of Islamic trash, Omar Mateen. They just can’t figure it out….
http://thefederalist.com/2016/06/15/the-new-york-times-cant-figure-out-the-orlando-terrorists-motive/
Daniel-Reader
I don’t think fundamentalists have quite thought through the reality of their situation. They need to run through the permutations. They should really be fighting to uphold everyone’s human rights to ensure their own and everyone else’s.
gayhope1990
The worst is that country could join the EU,that’s why the Brexit is the only solution like the end of that damned Eu.
GC1985
@Alistair Wiseman: The Federalist… Wouldn’t wipe a dogs butt with that source. It is definitely a gun control problem. Over fifty LGBT groups have demanded greater gun control laws. This nation has the weakest gun control laws in all the western world and the highest rates of gun crimes.
Still pissed Obamas approval ratings keep going up and trump is in the toilet?
IDoNotHaveToAgreeWithYou
@Hussain-TheCanadian: You’re Canadian. The only relevant thing your country has ever done is catch on fire. No one in the whole world cares what any of you thing despite your arrogant need to try to look down the end of your nose at everyone else. Why don’t you go do something about those hundreds of missing, raped and beaten native women in you country instead of protesting what Christopher Columbus did hundreds of years ago?
rjmaquay
Why? There is no NRA in Turkey?
rjmaquay
@GC1985: it’s a gun control problem that islam fascists want to kill gays? Stop huffing
MyDadPulledOut
These are true heroes. I can’t even imagine the courage it takes to walk in a pride parade, surrounded by literally prehistoric monsters who literally want to kill you.
MyDadPulledOut
Without the european union to dangle in front of turkey, it will probably revert back to its rabid islamic dog form rather quickly/.
Stilinski26
Radiohead fans beaten by mobs because they were drinking alcohol during the album launch party in Istanbul. Gay pride cancelled because of threats of violence towards LGBT groups and yet Turkey is considered a moderate Muslim country!
Ogre Magi
@Hussain-TheCanadian: Why aren’t YOU outraged over all the things muslims are doing to gays, instead of being outraged by gays not loving islam
Stilinski26
@Xzamilio: True! the Rabbi who stabbed a girl in Jerusalem pride was an isolated attack but the attack on LGBT groups in Turkey were ordered by the governments. its incomparable
Xzamilio
This is what I mean. I was waiting for Hussain to break down where my logic failed, and he didn’t. And keep in mind, this is not the first time I challenged him, and he didn’t respond. It boggles my mind how anyone can be a religions LGBT person, especially of any of the abrahamic faiths, and plenty of you guys on here can attest to the fact that I have been just as critical of Christianity, if not more (how you doin’, Ogre)@Stilinski26: I saw that. It’s conflicting because on one hand, you don’t want innocent people hurt or killed, but on the other hand, this is a classic example of how religious extremism (especially of the Muslim variety) is barely looked at as a factor in some of these regressive circles. The regressive left want to bend over backwards for Islam, and the alt right want to obliterate it.
And those of us in the center are like, “Hey… can we get a moment?”
Hussain-TheCanadian
@Xzamilio: I’m sorry I was away for the weekend and just returned; I don’t recall ever ignoring any of exchanges.
Anyhow, lets begin with the break down: The main point of your argument is that Islam is not equal when it comes to its fundamentalists causing violence globally in comparison to other faiths + you also names several groups to back up your hypothesis.
1) This is the issue with the groups you listed: The Taliban are a localized Afghan ousted government with no global reach; Hezbollah is a Lebanese, Shiite, political party with no military global reach outside of Lebanon and Syria. Boko-Haram is a local Nigerian militia; so that leaves Al-Quaeda and Daesh, and indeed both have global reach or did at one point (Al-Qaeda apparently doesn’t anymore).
All groups mentioned above, with the exception of Hezbollah, are a Salafist Jihadi organization(s) with heavy ties to Arab Gulf money, weapons, and cover. The Gulf monarchies are the darlings of your politicians and your Pentagon, so it stands to reason if your politicians, thos who actually control the flow of money and power, cared about Salafism and its violence, they know exactly where to turn to stop the barbarism.
But they don’t care, they like to train them and unleash them on their political rivals in the Middle East, just look at Syria and Iraq and follow the money, weapons, and fighters coming from the Middle East and Europe, and you’ll see exactly who is helping these barbarians. Also, 95% of their victims are follow Muslims, both Sunni and Shia.
So to say Islam is at way with the “West”, or the Western people or values is not accurate; to be at war with 1.6 billion human beings means we all would be dead by now, and the whole globe would be in flames.
It’s a shame that you equate Islam with Salafism.
One thing I agree with you on and that is the majority of Muslims globally are gay bigots, but the reason is not the Quar’an/Islam – It has to do more with their cultural background and the selectivity of Hadeeth used by many Scholars (who are given pulpits by the dictatorships they live under).
Hussain-TheCanadian
@IDoNotHaveToAgreeWithYou: A typical response from an uncivilized savage, thank for proving my point. You’re an ignorant barbarian who enjoys wallowing in his own ignorance, typical savage.
Hussain-TheCanadian
@Ogre Magi: How do you know that I’m not outraged? How do you know if I’m not advocating for homosexuality at my own mosque? How do you know that I’m not on Arabic/English speaking websites promoting gay understanding? How do you know that I don’t belong to the LGBT chapter for gay dignity within my province?
Please don’t assume, just because I don’t talk about it it doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
Xzamilio
@Hussain-TheCanadian: Right… the “cultural background”, which of course is different from the religion. Apparently, the religion that culture existed in separate vacuums and one had nothing to do with the shaping of the other. Hussain, I like you, but the “cultural” argument is weak. Hell, I can attest to how Christianity shaped our culture, even in a secular society, so I’m not buying the “Culture, not religion” excuse.
“So to say Islam is at way with the “West”, or the Western people or values is not accurate; to be at war with 1.6 billion human beings means we all would be dead by now, and the whole globe would be in flames.”
It’s a good thing I never said that, so this point is a strawman that I am dismissing as it has nothing to do with what I said, especially the old “Not all Muslims” trope that has no place in a reply to me.
“It’s a shame that you equate Islam with Salafism.”
No, it’s a shame that Salafists have hijacked the “religion of peace” narrative and exposed the barbarism that lies within your holy text. It’s a shame that even the most reasonable of people still cling to bronze age/iron age nonsense that has no beneficial purpose in a modern world. It’s a shame that you think because I am anti-Islam, I must buy every conservative talking point and do not fault the western world for its hypocrisy in dealing with repressive nations that constantly are violating human rights.
But, the fault of the western world has its limits, and I do not feel that any western nations shoulders the blame for ISIS as it is now. You also seemed to miss my point about the world wide threat of Islamic extremism… it doesn’t matter that these groups are localized… they are localized in VARIOUS PARTS OF THE WORLD, making this brand of terror a global issue. It’s this regressivism that I am growing tired of: they kill, defend the religion, blame the policies, Iraq War, the Crusades, blah blah blah.
Hussain-TheCanadian
@Xzamilio: The religion and culture did not live separately from each other, nor did they live in a vacuum independent of each other, however both aspects of each do impact each other.
1) There is an interesting research book done on the forms of Islam across Africa, the Middle Arab East, Iran, Turkey, Indian subcontinent, and far east Asia, detailing how the original cultures of those peoples impacted Islam, and how Islam, impacted their culture.
Now when looking at attitudes towards homosexuality, I don’t deny that “Islam” had an impact, especially on the attitudes of straight men, however these attitudes were already existing within the culture (In Arab culture for example). I can give an example of Arab culture before Islam, and how they looked at gay men, especially effeminate gay men, and it wasn’t good – There are books on the subject too.
Iranian culture for example had an accepting attitude (for the most part) towards gay people, and if it wasn’t for that cultural memory, Transexuality, and I hope soon, homosexuality, would not have been an acceptable aspect of Shia Islam, and the Shiite view on Transexuality. Also, in both Iran and Turkey, Male homosexual bath (read prostitution) houses were recognized by the state during the Safavide/Ottoman eras, and were charged religions taxes too (Zakat and Khums).
So yes culture plays a huge role in shaping the Religion, just as the Religion has a huge factor in shaping the culture.
2) Outside of Salafism, no Muslim would agree that Salafi ideology, religious outlook, cultural behavior is anyway close to Shiism, Sufism , and the remaining 90% of Sunnism, let alone exposing “the barbarism” within the Quar’anic text; when you go over the literature of Daesh for example, and I have, most of their ideology stems from Salafi idealogs/Clerics, like Abdul-Rahman Ibn Tayimiya.
So if you are not interested in those details, if you don’t want to understand how their brain functions, and how to drain their ideological swamp, we are not going to get anywhere. Every area where the Salafists operate or live, they are fought mainly by the Muslims around them.
3) All I have to point to is the bizarre relationship between the United States government and Saudi Arabia, and also point to the squashing of the revolution in Bahrain and how the American government gave the political cover and military support to ensure the rule of the Al-Khalifa family continues.
I can also point to Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, and Egypt to show American negative involvement, and creating the conditions for those Salafists to thrive. You don’t even have to listen to me, you can download the CIA DIA report from 2012 detailing exactly that.
I wouldn’t blame the American government for all Arab woes, but I would throw the Lion share their way. If it wasn’t for those fake “Royal” families, and military generals ruling the Arabs, at least they would be free enough to discuss subjects as homosexuality. The Turks are talking, some Arabs like the Lebanese are talking, the Malaysians and Indonesians are talking – but look at he Arab nations, silence. If you look at Arab TV, literature, and books, much of it is censored by those governments.
It’s not as simple as saying “blame Islam”.
BriBri
Keep importing this trash and we can look forward to this in the USA.