We already learned from Dale Mcapline that arresting street preachers for telling passers-by gays are going to hell isn’t just stupid, it gives religious zealots a chance to sue government officials for violating their religious freedoms. And that’s exactly what fellow British street preacher Anthony Rollins did after his June 2008 arrest (and four-hour jail sentence) for quoting the King James Bible’s 1 Corinthians that supposedly lumps in gays with “abusers of themselves with mankind.” He’s now receiving a £4,000 damages payment from the police department that cuffed him — a ruling I completely agree with.
Let these men fill the public square with their vitriol, because they’re actually doing us a favor. Yes, they are bullies, but it’s not as if people walking by are treating these men seriously. They view them as a nuisance and roll their eyes at their hatemongering. It’s a street preacher’s right to believe he is spreading the gospel, the same way it is our right to ignore and condemn what he says.
If men like Rollins think we’re going to hell, so be it. I’d rather British officials spend their resources making sure crap like this and this stopped happening.
Tallskin
The judge that awarded this sky pixie worshipping wanker £4,000 in compensation should be sacked. (I suspect the judge was also a sky pixie worshipper)
The police were correct to arrest the fat pig. He was causing a public nuisance.
I don’t see why I should have anti-gay abuse shouted at me in the public square as I go about my business.
So, to answer your question: “Can We Just Stop Arresting Anti-Gay Street Preachers Like Anthony Rollins?” Er no. Keep arresting the creepy christian c*nts.
Besides, if christians don’t feel they’re being persecuted then they aren’t happy, so arresting them is actually good for their immortal souls.
divkid
y’all id like to apologise for my compatriot. not for anything he said …for those SHOCKING red thread vein cheeks. gurlfriend needs to STEP UP to that beauty routine. just remember: what would jesus do — moisturise, foundation, and concealer. hell yes.
amen
Jim Hlavac
Oh, let the village idiots speak, it’s fine. Everyone has the right to be a complete raving moron, even street preachers. And it does help us, for far too many people just don’t agree with the man. And then, in a bit of Christian kindness, should one want to do the job — merely hold up signs next to him that say “Greatest Gay Love Story — Jonathan & David — 1st Samuel 18-20” (It’s a fine read, indeed.) And another fine sign to be displayed next to the village idiots is “King James the Bible Writer Was Gay! Know thy history!” And really, Jimmy the Bible writer was gay, as was his father Lord Darnley. Of whom Elizabeth I said “Send Mary my cousin, that fairy and gay man, Lord Darnley, so naught might come of it.” (There’s a record of her comments, Lord Darnley was “out” without a doubt.) And then bring reference to the great quip of 1603 (the year of Jimmy’s accession to the throne of the newly united Great Britain) “We have had King Elizabeth, now we shall have Queen James.” (James chopped the heads right off a few of the quipsters.) Really, now. Surely we can fight unreason with reason, no? How about a sign “Gay people have the patience of Job!” Oh, there’s plenty of Bible quotes to make the man distraught. No need to excoriate a poor depraved man who knows not what he does. I’m sure this man just marvels at our obstinate peaceful fortitude, as I’m sure Tony Perkins and his ilk do too. But let them speak, and give them the microphone to hang themselves by, for their idiocy is visible.
Advocate
If Rollins genuinely believes that gays are going to hell (this is clear from the Bible in its original languages), what would be his reason be for telling them how to avoid it – love or hate?
Under freedom of speech anybody is free to reply, are they not? You can’t be selective about freedom of speech. Try advocating homosexuality in Muslim countries and see what happens to you.
To Jim Hlavac: King James didn’t write the Bible, he simply commissioned an English translation of it. As for David and Jonathan being a gay couple, have you actually read this account?
Jeff
I have to laugh for I had an old acquaintance friend me on facebook and discovered I was gay and got vocal on my post. I ended up befriending him but let him know personally how I felt and that his preaching was not in love but in anger and not in line with the bible. But lets get over the unreality of being pc for the truth is people will continue to be vocal against gays and lesbians just because they are targeted as unnatural. Every nation every year and decade an enemy has to be had. So for some we are the enemy. Smile, tell em God loves em and have a great day. Kindness, and generosity goes a long way and is more in line with what the Scriptures have to say than anger, my old acquaintance included.
Advocate
@Tallskin:
You exercise freeedom of speech against religion pretty vigorously, yet you would deny the same to people who criticise YOUR way.
Tallskin
@Advocate – and what, pray tell, is my way???
Please enlighten me.
Advocate
@Tallskin: I was assuming you were gay (which I do not, incidentally, regard as an insult). But regardless of your own orientation the fact remains that you wish to exercise freedom of speech against religion while denying freedom to speech that is construed (mistakenly) as critical of homosexuality. Inconsistent is the kindest word I can think of for that…
Tallskin
@advocate. I am gay, and very happy being gay.
You are confusing freedom of speech with making an abusive and very public nuisance of yourself.
As I said, I have a right to go about my business in the public square without having to suffer abuse from some offensive sky pixie worshipper.
Just as I have a right to sit in peace in my home without suffering loud and annoying music from neighbours.
The religious nutters can stand quietly and hand out leaflets if they desire, but they don’t have the right to shout and scream vilifications like maniacs.
This isn’t the place to examine whether or not religious nutters have the right to be critical of homosexuality, to pollute the minds of their children with sky pixie nonsense and indulge in other equally insane nonsense- i tend to think they don’t have the right to do any of this, and that society has the perfect right to moderate their hatred, and their infecting of other gullible people with their hatred.
Cassandra
tallskin posted:
“You are confusing freedom of speech with making an abusive and very public nuisance of yourself.
And followed it up with the following phrases:
“sky pixie worshipper.”
“religious nutters”
“sky pixie nonsense”
“infecting of other gullible people”
So, let’s look carefully at what Tallskin wrote, and be amazed at how much of it applies to his/her own tirades.
“As I said, I have a right to go about my business in the public square without having to suffer abuse from some offensive sky pixie worshipper.”
At the same time, people of faith like me, apparently, do not have the right to go about our business in the public square, like Queerty, without having to suffer abuse from anti-religious hate mongers like tallskin.
Great double standard there – tallskin insists on having his say while silencing viewpoints he doesn’t like. Homophobes do the same thing – insist that their condemnation homosexuality be presented in public, while asserting that homosexuality be kept hidden.
According to Tallskin, religious people ” can stand quietly and hand out leaflets if they desire, but they don’t have the right to shout and scream vilifications like maniacs.”
The right to shout and scream “vilifications like maniacs” belongs only to bigots like tallskin, but not other kinds of bigots.
“This isn’t the place to examine whether or not religious nutters have the right to be critical of homosexuality, to pollute the minds of their children with sky pixie nonsense and indulge in other equally insane nonsense- i tend to think they don’t have the right to do any of this,”
Here is the heart of the prejudice that is atheism – tallskin believes that people of faith do not have a right to free speech, and he uses exactly the same arguments that homophobes use, including “polluting the minds of children”. Note that tallskin, like homophobic extremists, wants control even over what religious people say to their own children.
Now, frankly, I’m begining to suspect that tallskin is a minimally clever plant from a homophobic org, posting extreme anti-religious hate speech on GLBTQ websites so other homophobes can say “see how much teh gays hate Christians”.
“and that society has the perfect right to moderate their hatred, and their infecting of other gullible people with their hatred.”
Homophobes believe characterize homosexuality in a negative and abusive way, as tallskin characterizes religion, and then both opine that society has a right to exert control – oppress, in other words, people for it.
Every time tallskin, under any of his/her ids, posts anti-religious, anti-Christian hate speech, he/she verifies that atheism is simply a very ugly prejudice that leaves it adherents consumed with hatred and incapable of recognizing the humanity of anyone other than themselves.
Cassandra
Advocate
” . . . that gays are going to hell (this is clear from the Bible in its original languages),”
Wrong. The closer one gets to the original languages, the more ambiguous the “gotcha verses” – the passages used to condemn homosexuality, become. Careful analysis in the original languages repudiates the traditional interpretation of most of them directly, and creates serious challenges on the rest.
The Sodom story, for example, simply does not hold up as having any bearing on homosexuality, when examined in the original language. The word in it that is translated ‘have sex with’ is not the standard Hebrew term for sexual intimacy, it is a word meaning knowledge in various forms. Though it appears in a handful of euphemisms about explicitly heterosexual sexual interactions, >99% of the time it is used, it means knowledge. In the context of the Sodom story, the most likely translation is “interrogate”, especially given the traditional stories that accuse the people of Sodom of torture.
Further, Ezekiel’s account explains that the sin of Sodom was not sexual sin, and careful analysis of the text indicates that his remark to ‘detestable things’ is a reference to human sacrifice, not homosexuality.
“Try advocating homosexuality in Muslim countries and see what happens to you.”
Not all Muslim countries are the same, nor are they unchanged from their past. There was a time when homosexuals and Jews had more rights and freedom living in Muslim countries than in Catholic and Protestant Europe and England.
“As for David and Jonathan being a gay couple, have you actually read this account?”
Quite a few times, actually. The account uses superlatives to express emotions, and a pattern of events, that would automatically be interpreted as a romantic, sexual relationship if one of the two were female – no matter what other taboos might apply. Yet hetero-sexist bias insists that two men cannot love each other romantically, that gay men only experience lust not love, and therefore, Jonathan and David could only be friends.
To claim that David and Jonathan were just friends is like declaring that Romeo and Juliet were just friends.
Advocate
@Tallskin:
“You are confusing freedom of speech with making an abusive and very public nuisance of yourself.”
Do you actually know what was said? ie, were you there or have you heard the reports of it in court?
Furthermore, it is not abuse. Rollins does not criticise homosexuality in his preaching. Rather, he warns people that God criticises it and then leaves them free to consider the matter. Informed choice is the name of the game. Accusations of hate do not stand up.
But even if it were abuse then I would support Rollins’ right to come out with it. Under freedom of speech you are free to reply as you wish. Or ignore it and walk on. Get selective and it could be you whose beliefs are censored next week.
I do not agree with your views on religion but I support your right to speak them in public. I regret the fact that you do not reciprocate. I agree with you that there is too much hatred in the world, and I believe that the right place to begin winding it down is in my own heart. May I ask you to do the same?
Tallskin
@Advocate – “and I believe that the right place to begin winding it down is in my own heart. May I ask you to do the same?”
Garrghhhh, I shall thwow up and be thick, thick, thick if you start to fucking pray for me!
Cassandra, I don’t usually bother replying to you, as you are seriously too far gone. But I cannot let your bitter stupidity pass without comment.
I am perfectly consistent. If I say a christian death cult worshipper is not allowed to hurl abuse in the town square then neither am I allowed to stand there and hurl abuse about your death cult.
The issue is “disturbing the peace” and allowing people to live peacefully together whilst going about their daily business without suffering abuse.
Cassandra, you are free to hand out your nutjob leaflets SILENTLY.
Advocate
@Cassandra:
The New Testament Greek certainly uses umbrella words to cover those sexual acts which it is against. And I am aware that homosexuality is not in Ezekiel’s list of sins for which Sodom was destroyed. It is unambiguously legislated against in ancient Israel’s legal code in the Old Testament, however. In the New Testament the church runs to different rules – it is a voluntary society – but the believer’s view is that God did not change his understanding of right and wrong between the Old and New Testaments, only the way to deal with it (mercifully!)
The tale of David and Jonathan is an account from a Hebrew culture, not a Greek one, and the cultural context is totally different (ie ancient Israel’s law).
Jeffree
@Advocate:
Cassandra will be here in due course to help you understand the misguided interpretations you’re making about the Bible. Meanwhile, you should study up, because you will be reduced to an inarticulate mass of confusion, doubt, & weak retorts.
— — —
As much as Orthodox Jews condemn homosexuality, I’ve never been preached to by one of them. For this I am thankful and will eat a box of matzoh with kosher preserves in gratitude.
Advocate
@Jeffree:
It would be extraordinary if the first people to understand the relevant verses came some 3500 years after they were written, would it not? The believer in a God who makes his views known to his covenanted people would regard this as a decisive argument for the traditional understanding that prevailed for 3.5 millennia from the time the verses were written.
But I am happy to discuss it as a matter of scripture alone.
I appreciate exegetical discussions and want only the truthful meaning, so bring it on!
Advocate
@Tallskin:
The trouble with your approach is that anybody with a grudge can ring the police and claim that somebody said something insulting that they didn’t actually say. A false report is what happened to Rollins. And it is what could happen to you in many places (although I would never report anybody for words that did not explicitly incite people within hearing to violence).
Keep free speech free. If you don’t like it, ignore it or reply freely to it. But don’t go crying to Big Brother like somebody did in that case.
Guyinhur
Religion is for the weak minded like Advocate. Advocate…you won’t stop people from being gay. We’re EVERYWHERE now..and promoting younger kids come out to. We’re not going anywhere anytime soon, so this culture war has already ended and we won bud. sorry. too bad, sooo sad. Go and pray for us. lol!
Advocate
@Guyinhur
Certainly I’ll pray for you. As for who won the culture war… did you know that every culture to have moved from a chaste to a promiscuous sexual morality fell apart within 2-3 generations? That was the conclusion, without exception, of a study of more than 80 distinct human cultures made by JD Unwin (“Sex And Culture”) published in 1934. By the way, he was secular.
Advocate
BTW Tallskin, why do you not wish me to pray for you?
tony
I agree with advocate by the way he is weak in the faith but speaks truth, you all need to repent god’s day of judgment is fast approching.
tony
I agree with advocate by the way he is not weak in the faith but speaks truth, you all need to repent god’s day of judgment is fast approaching.