Meet Ben Rogers aned Mark Poidevin, an Australian gay couple in a committed relationship who want to preserve “traditional marriage” and don’t feel homosexuals need a legally binding certificate to express their love for one another.
“If we make one exception for one community, that being the same-sex couples, where does it stop?” asks Poidevin in an interview on ABC’s 7.30 program on Monday night.
The two met on Gay.com fifteen years ago.
Related: This woman “married” a train station and says it’s the same thing as being gay
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If the vote goes ahead, Poidevin fears this will be Australia’s ‘Trump moment”.
“This could be the Brexit or Trump moment for Australia, where the polls are saying one thing but you go to the ballot box and people are clearly in another mind, going to vote another way.”
“There’s never been any discrimination with any of our families, or dramas coming our way because of our sexuality,” says Rogers.
“When I first came out I think one of the consequences was giving up marriage and children and things like that.”
Poidevin used to support same-sex marriage but Rogers swayed him.
“I just explained to him, ‘I don’t think it’s my cup of tea,’” Rogers said. “It’s not something I had ever envisioned.”
They also spoke about how both camps in the same-sex marriage debate have started to get “nasty”.
“The campaign’s gotten nasty on both sides,” says Poidevin, “and I think the comments that I hear are, ‘You’re a homophobe if you don’t support gay marriage’.”
“I’m a gay person here that’s coming out and saying, ‘Well, no it’s not. It’s your right to have a view, your right to have a view either way and people should be respected.’
“You’re not intolerant if you don’t support a view.”
As you can see below, social media users are sharply criticizing the couple, saying “it’s fine” if they don’t want to get married but they “shouldn’t support no one being able to get married.”
This week, The High Court will hear two challenges against the government’s $122 million same-sex marriage postal vote.
h/t: Yahoo
lcandela123
What a boring, dispiriting blathering of the usual idiotic rhetoric. They actually made the “slippery slope” argument: “if gay marriage now, then something really awful later”.
Then, the “argument” that they are lucky enough not to experience discrimination, so why are civil rights really needed for others?
Was this article for real, or satire? Hard to believe such clueless boobs actually exist.
john.k
Oh I don’t doubt it’s real. We had a few plonkers like that making themselves heard during the Irish referendum campaign in 2014/15. One of them was quite a nasty piece of work. When the wife of a female government minister died recently he tweeted ” Wife? I don’t think so.” As you can imagine there was a very unfavourable reaction to that and he hasn’t been heard from since.
Xzamilloh
Ugh, this crap infuriates me to no end… talk about the ultimate of selfishness. I had the same conclusion that most of the other comments I saw on Facebook: just because you don’t want to get married doesn’t mean you get to force your convoluted — and likely Catholic influenced — hangups onto other gays and lesbians who DO want to be married. And please don’t gloss over Poidevin’s Catholicism, because I am 98% sure that is where he gathered the “consequences of coming out”
Donston
Their viewpoint isn’t as unusual as you’d believe. There are quite a few people in same-sex relationships that feel that way: that same-sex couples shouldn’t be able to get married and/or shouldn’t raise kids.
I figure that it mostly develops from a few places. Many people, even legitimately and inherently gay and homo-dominant people, view homosexuality as an “alternative”. Indulging homosexuality may allow someone to feel subversive and edgy and different. So, “normalizing” it weakens the subversive, fetish and narcissistic appeal of homosexuality. Then you have individuals who were molested, abused, assaulted, extensively bullied, shunned by family and friends and/or dealt with overwhelming feelings of loneliness and feeling like an outsider and they still contend with self-loathing and/or internalized homophobia. Then you have individuals who grew up in religious environments and still contend with religious guilt.
So, for a multitude of reasons this perspective isn’t all that odd.
captainburrito
I agree. There’s also some who are a bit thick and don’t understand the slippery slope fallacy. And those who probably came to terms with never being able to marry in the past and internalized the view that it was closed off to them, now they are unable to renegotiate that.
Paco
Some gay men are our own worst enemy when it comes to equal rights. It’s sad that the one believes he has to suffer “consequences” for being gay. No marriage or children. It’s even worse that he feels his self-loathing must be used to deny others their happiness.
Donston
This type of mindset is partially why the closet is still so full, why so many gays defend and even praise the closet, why many gay couples never consider having kids even if they want children, why many gay and gay-leaning/homo-dominant people stay in hetero relationships or go back to them when they wish to get married and start a family. Self-loathing and a damaged and twisted up ego can be very hard to truly get rid of. The issues with the “gay movement” are often as internal as they are external.
DarkZephyr
“You’re not intolerant if you don’t support a view.”
A lot of what they said pisses me off, but this is the part that irritates me the most. These jack asses and so many others don’t seem to grasp the difference between having a “view” and actually going out and actively voting against a human being’s civil rights. This isn’t about just an opinion, its about legislating that opinion on other people and affecting how they are permitted by law to live their lives.
Besides, of course intolerance is a “view” for God’s sake. People aren’t intolerant if they don’t have intolerant view points.
WindsorOntario
A lot of this anger and internalized homophobia has to do with what happens after coming out. So many gay men were befriended and encouraged to come out, then after doing so, were abandoned for someone newer and ‘undiscovered’. This left many without the emotional skills to cope in a very small group of male society (less than 3%) where they have to figure out dating, friendships, sex, relationships, etc…not to mention dealing with the disappointment of ‘where are all these men I was told about who would be interested in dating, etc?’ What a lot of gay men found was NOTHING. Nobody interesting or interested in them, having tried all the apps, dating ventures in real life, groups, whatever – and still – NOTHING.
Now many are over 45 with no experience of dating or long-term or anything to show for all the hard work put into coming out. They’re extremely angry and feel ripped off and lied to by others in the gay community who had once promised them how much ‘it gets better’. There is nowhere to go with that anger or sense of feeling lied to. The only people to take it out on is each other. So we are pissed when we find out other gay men are getting married. What about US? What about those of us who tried so hard and risked so much to come out and got nothing? Who do we believe now that we feel that coming out was a waste of a life that equaled decades of not meeting anyone along with body image issues and deep depression/isolation? Nobody gives a shit. Gay men get what they want and you’ll never hear from them again.
It’s a sideways/passive aggressive response to a lot of hurt and extreme anger and resentment. Many of these guys don’t believe they’ll ever meet anyone which has ruined their self-esteem, self-worth and body image. Of course they’re going to be acting that way. I’d be shocked if they didn’t.
You’re dealing with a segment of the community that has the coping skills of a 7th grade girl.
Donston
Actually, recent studies are concluding that around 6% of men are homo or homo-dominant. Of course, a great percentage of those men are not out or are not living “gay lifestyles”.
Blaming internalized homophobia entirely on gays is incredibly misguided. Feeling the need to do so is a hint that you’re suffering from internalized homophobia. You make a mild point, but it’s very a very one-note point. I already gave more common reasons for the development of gay-shame and internalized homophobia.
Danny595
You undermine your argument by taking a disgusting swipe at an anti-bullying campaign. “It Gets Better” was a not a promise that adult life would be problem-free. It was a specific message to young children in elementary, middle, and high school that the bullying they might be enduring at this time would not continue forever. You’re kind of a low life to make that about you and your dating problems.
Heywood Jablowme
“So many gay men”… “a lot of gay men”…. “many are over 45″… etc. etc. etc.
Hey, notice a pattern? If there are SO MANY of you guys, why don’t you just date each other?
And try developing some solid NON-SEXUAL friendships instead putting all your hopes on dating!
Brian
Y’all really like to turn a few online randos into trends, patterns, and articles. Just forget about these randos. Tweets don’t matter, Facebook posts don’t matter. If you’re going to report on something, find the pattern first. There will always be a few weirdos out there, and you can ignore them.
Donston
I think this particular instance allows for a discussion on internalized homophobia and gay-shame. But yes, they do go scrolling for randoms who make comments of which they can create click-bait around.
Chris
If you’re opposed to gay marriage, then don’t marry someone who is gay. Otherwise, live and let live.
OzJosh
On the up side, this pair don’t have the combined brain power to fill out the survey form accurately, so they’ll probably end up voting YES by mistake. They don’t actually have a single coherent point to make on the issue, which gives you some idea of how hard it was for 7.30 – normally a relatively intelligent show – to find them. The ABC’s misguided notions of “balance” strike again.
Danny595
This couple is a rarity and unfortunately, the media cannot resist a rarity, whether it is an albino lobster or a man biting a dog. Multiple polls of LGB people show that we overwhelming support marriage equality and consider it the highest LGB political priority, and a poll of LGB Brown University students in 2013 showed that 96% expect that they will marry at some point in their lives. In 20 years, marriage has gone from being an unattainable fantasy to a possibility to an expectation and is on its way to being the dominant form of expression of gay love and commitment.
From time to time, folks like this will pop up. There was a legislator in Hawaii who voted no. There were 2 gay dudes (both Roman Catholic) in Ireland who joined the no campaign. There were a few Roman Catholics (who insisted that they were homosexual, not gay) who were organized into a front group in France. The media lavished attention on them, but ultimately they represented no one and were totally irrelevant.
Luna1979
I read about these guys earlier on another site. 6 hours later seeing them here I find I’m no less vexed. Marriage is love and devotion, a promise. Only straight people can feel these things? Their belief in “traditional marriage” being MF (to me) is like saying gays are incapable of doing more than having sex. Like the emotions and desires to build a life and have a family are invalid unless you are straight.
John
So, just because they feel that being gay means not getting married and having children, then everyone has to live by the same logic?
surreal33
Opinions and assholes everybody has one.
dustychiffon
That’s true Surreal33, but some assholes are far more stretched and nasty than others.
dustychiffon
I know a guy, I’d even say he’s a friend, who is an orthodox eastern Christian something or other, and feels celibacy is best for gay men, blah. Blah.
I’ve found it increasingly difficult to hang out with someone who sees his own as less than, or “different than” as he likes to say. I’ve found that life’s hard enough trying to love yourself in a world that doesn’t always love you back, than to spend energy with those that society clearly got the best of. I feel bad for them, it’s gotta suck.
gayand gray
This couple does not understand why we want to marry. It is for Inheritance Rights. Health Care Rights. Joint Property Rights. Tax Code Rights. Adoption Rights. Child Care Rights. All of the Rights granted to any couple who decide to make two into one, become a family, begin a family, build a life for the two of them. I now am 67. Have been with my Husband for 32+ years. I’ll will understand if you don’t want to be married, but do not stand in the way of those who do. That is why we fought for Equal Rights.
DCguy
Ugh, I’m so tired of these self hating queens and their baggage….
They said ““If we make one exception for one community, that being the same-sex couples, where does it stop?” asks Poidevin in an interview on ABC’s 7.30 program on Monday night. ”
Now imagine that changed to “If we make an exception and allow women to own property, where will it stop?” “If we make an exception and allow black people to marry who they want where will it stop?”
And of course the media eats it up with a spoon. Look, nobody would be begging people to listen to the viewpoint of a woman who got in TV and said “Well since I don’t want to vote nobody should have the right to vote.”
But EVERY time there is any lgbt civil rights issue they have to dig deep, find one or two sad, self hating queer people to parrot the bigots line.
GayEGO
Oh, I guess Australia does not have any marriage benefits. After SCOTUS overtuned section 3 of DOMA in 2013 and in 2014 we were getting ready to have our taxes done, our tax guy told us to file our taxes as a married couple so we would save $3000. In 2015 Marriage Equality was made the law of the land and we contacted the appropriate government health agencies to let them know we are married. These two gays guys don’t have to get married to each other, that is their decision, although it seems bizarre that they don’t support other gay couples getting married.
radiooutmike
They have never gotten to a crisis point where the rights afforded to you in marriage mean anything to them.
captainburrito
Imagine they did the same to all the things they didn’t like in the supermarket and everyone else did the same. There’d be no products left.
One of them was dumb for feeling that way. But I’d argue the other one got dumber if he let himself get persuaded to his partner’s viewpoint.
gaym50ish
OF COURSE you don’t need marriage to express your love for someone. But in the United States you need it to receive the rights and financial benefits of marriage — and I presume it’s the same in Australia. (Remember the 2004 Paul Hogan movie, “Strange Bedfellows”?)
And it’s not just government benefits in question either. If you’re not married, you can’t even avoid the second-driver charge on a car rental or get the family membership at the gym.