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It Sure Sounds Like The Pentagon Is Looking Into Separate But Equal Showers

You know things are bad when both the liberals at the New York Times and the conservatives at The Economist are calling your record on gay rights appalling, but such is The Obama Life right now. Also appalling: New evidence the Defense Department is actually considering separate but equal facilities for gay soldiers.

In January there were murmurs out of the Pentagon that military leaders were considering how to change bathing and living facilities to accommodate the post-DADT world, where gay servicemembers could leave open their laptops unafraid to show off their partners on their desktop wallpaper. In July Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell told reporters, “We think it would be irresponsible to conduct a survey that didn’t address these questions because when ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ is repealed, we will have to determine if there are any challenges in those particular areas, any adjustments that need to be made in terms of how we educate the force, or perhaps even facility adjustments that need to be made to deal with those scenarios.”

But then Morell clarified “no one is considering ‘separate but equal’ bathing or living facilities for you know, gay and straight troops. That’s just not ever a consideration.”

Oh really? Because in the Department of Justice’s Thursday appeal of the DADT-is-unconstitutional ruling, it certainly sounds like that’s exactly what the Pentagon is considering. As the Times notes in an editorial:

Clifford Stanley, the under secretary of defense for personnel and readiness, said in a court filing that ending the antigay policy would require training, and reworking regulations on issues like housing, benefits and standards of conduct. He said the Army had to consider the “rights and obligations of the chaplain corps.” Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said the military had to consider whether barracks should be segregated and whether partners of gay soldiers should have benefits. This sounds disturbingly like the creation of a “separate but equal” system. The armed forces do not need to be protected from their gay and lesbian personnel. The military has always had its own culture and rules of behavior, but it has not been living in a cave.

And that’s probably the only outcome folks like Sen. John McCain could every reasonably tolerate. Here’s him insisting he’ll definitely filibuster any attempt to repeal the law. (Scroll to 5:00 mark.)

Okay, So What The Heck Is The Status Of DADT Right Now?
5 Potential Benefits Of Separate Showers For Gay Soldiers


      Memo to the certified lunatic nutbags: There already are Gay soldiers showering with straight soldiers. They kinda sorta been doing this for thousands of years…………..

      Oct 18, 2010 at 10:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark

      @PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS: Yes, Alexander the Great bathed with his legions, well I guess they did then.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 10:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Henry

      LOL The American soldier is so brave and macho – he’s afraid that the scary gays might glimpse his wee wee.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 10:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Samwise

      1. The Economist isn’t socially conservative, just economically conservative. They’ve published very pro-gay articles in the past.

      2. I was reading a couple of articles – I think they were in Slate – recently about friendships between men and women. It was all about that worn-out When-Harry-Met-Sally debate of “can a man and a woman ever be friends, or would sex get in the way?” that all gay people know is total bullshit. And I was thinking about that, that a substantial portion of the (straight) population seems to believe that it is literally impossible to relate to members of your preferred gender in any way but sexually. And I realized that that explains a lot of why so many straight people think we’re mindless sex machines wont to rape any member of the same sex we happen to come across: apparently, they think they’re mindless, rape-happy sex machines too.

      Not that I think they’re right. Maybe the ultimate solution to this problem is to encourage more friendships between little boys and little girls; get the straight people to grow up understanding that the different genders aren’t different planets that you land on only for romance and sex. Just my personal theory.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 10:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dallas David

      Whatever happened to Term Limitations?

      It seems that the only time it’s an issue is when a Republican is challenging an incumbant Democrat.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 11:04 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe

      Seperate but Equal has already been decided but i do look forward to this kinky rhetoric on transcript.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 11:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fitz

      On the plus side, the dude in this photo is MUCH nicer than anything that has been in MG in sometime.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 11:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam

      Here’s a thought.

      Every man or woman in the military ALREADY has showered with gays in every PE class they ever had in school. And they all seem to have survived with their virtures intact.

      As for Obama, I find it interesting that he is having his Dept. of Justice appeal the ruling getting rid of DADT because “Congress needs to be the place it needs to come from”.

      Well, McCain has basically said that nothing like that will get through the Senate.

      And Lastly, by saying that the Court shouldn’t be the place where this comes from… is he also saying that the court decisions on School Desegregation or Interacial Marriage were incorrect because they didn’t come from Congress?

      Somebody needs to start convincing me that Obama doesn’t actually hate gays because I”m not seeing much different in his behavior than I would from a homophobe. He’s blocked us at every turn.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 12:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Theo

      This worthless old asshole likes to pretend that he is right, even he clearly knows he is lying. Typical self-righteous republican. I hope Americans are smart enough to see through that and stop this kind of lunatic got a platform to spew his nonsense and hate. VOTE DEMOCRAT.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 12:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Avenger

      If a straight male showered with a woman, he would glance at her genitalia. Even if covertly. So let’s not pretend that a gay soldier don’t eye other guys dicks in the shower. Even if he acts like he isn’t and even if he keeps his hands to himself, he’s looking. But then again gay soldiers being segregated to their own showers would probably result in a bunch of circle jerks and hand/blow jobs, so really it’s a predicament either way.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 12:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fitz

      @Avenger: Yeah, but staright guys totally check out each other’s junk too. Maybe it’s out of a sense of competition instead of lust, but .. totally, i see straight guys at the gym all the time grabbing a super quick assessment glance.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 12:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

      @Avenger: It’s human nature to look at the naked body directly next to you. So long as people respect the rules, regulations and the other persons personal bounds, I don’t see the big deal. Little kids complain over others “looking at them.” Adults should be beyond such pettiness. If someone touches another person inappropriately, then it becomes an issue…but merely glancing at the flesh of another shouldn’t be.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 1:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jack

      John McCain is REALLY concerned with our soldiers shower arrangements… he acts as if gay soldiers haven’t been around for you know… as long as there has been soldiers.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 2:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael

      Don’t forget, we’re talking about Washington, DC, the land of the lobbyist. You cannot rule out the soap industry’s effort behind this push for more showers.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 3:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • timncguy

      The reason that the bigots are so concerned about it is that they believe that DADT is the only thing that is keeping the gays that are in the service now (sleeping in the same rooms and showering with all the straights) from harassing and raping the straights. They believe once “open service” is allowed, they gays will start to proposition, harass and rape the straight boys. You know, because that’s what goes on so much in the real world. You always hear so many stories of the gays raping the straights in the gym locker rooms. Why, almost every day I see something in the news where the gays wait outside of straight bars and beat the crap out of a straight man when he comes out. It’s hardly safe to walk the streets as a straight man anymore.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 3:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Devon

      Why don’t they just put in some little divider walls between the showers? It worked for my high school locker room, seems like that should be good enough for the military.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 3:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gary B.

      I think it’s wrong that these guys should be afraid that gay soldiers are checking them out in the shower.

      They’re DEFINITELY checking them out in the shower, so need to have any more fear. :p

      Oct 18, 2010 at 4:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe

      @Avenger: You forgot to mention that straight guys check out all the cocks in the shower Bozo. How convenient for you to omit that fact so you can continue your homophobic storytelling. Actually you sound like you are protecting a lot of dick and i am not talking about cheney. you are a flake.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 4:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe

      @Devon: That would be too logical. I nominate you for General. Your sensibility would not allow for continued governmment waste.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 4:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe

      This is perfect evidence that straight guys are obsessed with COCK. Case closed.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 4:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason

      I wouldn’t be surprised if John McCain has had homosexual experiences in the past, and perhaps in the present.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 5:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steve

      Most showers already have some form of stalls or curtains. About the only place where you’ll encounter fully open showers is boot camp. Even many of the most remote bases in Afghanistan have some kind of enclosed shower.

      For McCain to throw around his military experience is silly. He served decades ago. He doesn’t have the slightest clue about the modern military.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 5:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dizzle

      god these people are such fools. Republicans suck balls.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 5:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SoylentDiva

      Will he also work to protect gay and atheist soldiers from Christianist fuckwads?

      Oct 18, 2010 at 5:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • uhoh

      I doubt that too many soldiers are that worried about being attacked or raped by gay soldiers. It’s more about being propositioned or ogled at. Silly as it may sound to some, not everyone wants to be LEERED at by someone who they have no interest in. Meanwhile, if said straight soldier were to angrily confront a gay soldier for his roving eye, he would be branded an uptight “homophobe” for daring to not have a good sense of humor about it.

      Go ahead and repeal DADT, but with that I think a very strict update and reinforcement of military CODE OF CONDUCT should be enacted. It would also be a good idea to install privacy dividers in the shower area.

      Hey, don’t complain…some kind of compromise is only fair.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 8:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alex

      seriosuly, how is the economist conservative?

      Oct 18, 2010 at 9:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • the crustybastard

      @uhoh said, “Silly as it may sound to some, not everyone wants to be LEERED at by someone who they have no interest in.”

      Do you imagine that no gay person has ever been subjected to unwanted sexual attention from a person of the opposite gender?

      In any of these type situations, sometimes the situation will be handled with tact and mutual respect, and sometimes that won’t be possible for whatever reason. That has less to do with the parties’ sexuality than the parties’ character.

      Oct 18, 2010 at 9:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Evan

      @Devon: After boot camp, every shower a servicemember will ever take will be private, excepting perhaps some very highly primitive conditions on forward operating bases.

      The open bay showers in boot camp are part of a particular sort of mind game. I think it’s kind of stupid but it’s unlikely to go away even with the presence of openly gay recruits.

      Oct 19, 2010 at 5:35 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Evan

      @uhoh: So basically the straight guys are afraid that gay men might treat them the way they treat women?

      Not that they don’t deserve a taste of their own medicine, but gay guys have too much concern for our own safety to do that shit.

      Oct 19, 2010 at 5:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam

      Shame on McCain’s openly gay cheif of staff Mark Buse for helping to advance his boss’s anti-gay agenda.

      Oct 19, 2010 at 8:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TPAKyle

      I have a solution to the shower situation that everyone will support: COED SHOWERS!

      Oct 19, 2010 at 1:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steve

      “So basically the straight guys are afraid that gay men might treat them the way they treat women?”


      Lesbians actually have it worse than gay men in that regard. They are open to sexual advances by men but without any way to flat out reject them. In fact, if they constantly reject men, that by itself opens them up to allegations of being gay. Victims of outright sexual harassment and rape or also frequently accused of being gay. There are straight women who have been discharged under DADT for that.

      Oct 19, 2010 at 2:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • reason

      @Cam: Once again both of those rulings were handed down by the U.S. Supreme Court. If the U.S. Supreme Court rules it unconstitutional the executive and legislative branches will adhere to the rulings. The reason the executive is appealing the ruling is becuase they don’t feel that a lower court has the authority to set wide ranging controversial federal policy.

      Oct 19, 2010 at 8:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tia

      they better not do this.. seperate but equal ..haven’t we learned enough from the civil rights movement..they better not even take it there..!!!

      Oct 19, 2010 at 9:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Giovannidude

      McCain’s brain is so fried. He wants to build a dang fence between the gay shower and the straight shower.

      Oct 19, 2010 at 11:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • the crustybastard

      @reason wrote, “The reason the executive is appealing the ruling is becuase they don’t feel that a lower court has the authority to set wide ranging controversial federal policy.”

      If they don’t “feel” that, they probably got their GED in law from the same vending machine you did.

      If the district court doesn’t have the jurisdiction to decide the case, the government shouldn’t have been there arguing it. The fact they were there concedes that district court has the proper authority.

      Courts have separate functions. District courts see witnesses and hear evidence and draw conclusions. An appellate court almost never “re-tries” a case or hears anyone speak besides the two appellate lawyers. They review the trial record (transcript and filings) and spend a few minutes questioning the lawyers about the claims within their appellate briefs. Then they determine if the district judge made procedural errors so substantial they actually affected the outcome, or if the judge’s legal conclusions had no basis in law or evidence, or if no rational jury could have come to the same conclusion.

      If the administration is appealing the case, they are most definitely saying that the trial judge fucked up somehow. They are precisely saying “we lost, but we shouldn’t have, because the trial judge erred by XYZ…”

      That’s the only basis for making an appeal.

      Can’t you do just a cursory bit of research before you start spreading your usual derp-derp-derp?

      Oct 20, 2010 at 12:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Pete

      You gays are never happy, you are always the perpetual victims right?

      Oct 20, 2010 at 7:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe

      @Pete: WRONG. You, the idiot, is never happy, you are always the perpetual victim. That is a statement from me about you.

      Oct 21, 2010 at 12:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe

      @Pete: And flush the toilet, you are stinkin up the place.

      Oct 21, 2010 at 12:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ran

      Take notice, but don’t get caught up on every word that comes out. If I was planning something I would consider every side even if that consideration ended with “absolutely not.” It’s hard to be sure if they are using information from other military’s who have already made the change, or if we’re trying to reinvent the wheel, which seems typically American. Just call the British or the Dutch or other and ask. If we’re equal then we’re equal to all the other personnel so all the benefits, etc are the same. That sure simplifies everything. Yes, there is a lot to consider, policies to be modified to exclude old language and include anything new. But jeez, it’s not rocket-science. I think they already know the answers.

      Oct 21, 2010 at 5:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Can Take Eight

      @Pete: Nice to see you here on QUEERTY, now get over here and lick my nasty shame.

      Oct 21, 2010 at 11:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Can Take Eight

      Why are Republicans and Christians so obsessed with homosexuality?

      Conservatives say they believe in smaller government, really tiny, small enough to fit in the anus of every gay man and in every woman’s uterus.

      Obama says there are “steps” to repealing this. GET BUSY and stop acting like a first timer taking a BIG COCK in the ass (ooh, ooh, slower slower, take it out, ooh, ouch, okay try again, take it out).

      Oct 21, 2010 at 11:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Pete

      @Can Take Eight: Uhhhhh because homosexuals destroyed ancient Greece, Rome and Weimar/Nazi Germany?

      Oct 21, 2010 at 11:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dan

      Studies show gay men generally have larger gentalia. No doubt straight military personnel will be demoralized if they see such huge endowments on known non-straight guys. As straight women can attest, straight male egos are paper-thin and fragile as weakened glass when it comes to such matters.

      Oct 21, 2010 at 1:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Pete

      @Dan: always “sexualizing” things…always with animalistic ideas on their heads…always worshiping the Phalus…and always the victims, the eternal victims, they are never pleased the children…

      Oct 21, 2010 at 4:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Giovannidude

      If straights ever saw the rear end of the guy in the photo up top, they might just pop a woody…

      Oct 21, 2010 at 10:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe

      @Pete: Pete: you are an ugly hearted evil twat that lashes out at people for things you hate about yourself. You are way into phallus’ and greek sex mythology. I suspect you jerk off while on this blog.

      Oct 21, 2010 at 10:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael Ejercito

      Does the Pentagon require or permit separate but equal showers for men and women?

      Oct 26, 2010 at 2:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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