Tim Pawlenty, the Caspar Milquetoast of the Republican presidential field, couldn’t do more to try to endear himself to the Tea Party short of renaming himself Earl Grey. So it’s no surprise that the former Minnesota Governor is going to deny anything with scientific proof behind it. In our case, that’s the cause of homosexuality, of course.
In an interview on Meet the Press, Pawlenty showed off his neurobiology credentials by insisting that “there is no scientific conclusion that it’s genetic.” (Yes, he did manage to avoid both the G and H words in talking about “it.”) This after Pawlenty professed how much he likes Lady Gaga’s “Born This Way,” which in most quarters is one of the seven warning signs of gayness. Still, Pawlenty told host David Gregory that the science is “in dispute” and that “I defer to scientists in that regard.” Of course, this isn’t exactly a surprise from the man who wants to bring back Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell despite what all those silly generals think.
If all of this sounds an awful lot like Pawlenty’s position on climate warning, well, it’s pretty much the same argument, just in lavender. Pawlenty has argued that “the science is bad” at concluding that global warming is the result of human activity, claiming “most, if not all of it, is caused by natural causes.”
Next up on Pawlenty’s science review: why scientists don’t believe the earth is round.
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mdthom
Pawlenty isn’t that a dish made from corn meal?
Abirdwillingtobeitself
Pawlenty: “natural cause is natural.”
Steve
Here’s the thing. He says homosexuality isn’t genetic. I also don’t think its genetic. Instead, I think that there is a more complex, but still biological, reaction that happens before a person is born.
BUT, most people don’t see it like this, because both sides push the “Its genetic or it isn’t” argument. Do we not realize that we haven’t linked ANY sexuality to genes? Not even heterosexuality?
People like Pawlenty who say “It isn’t genetic” I doubt understand the implications of the argument, but its very quite sneaky. Techncially, they’re right, as science hasn’t found a strong connection between genes and sexuality. Not only are they telling the truth with that part, but they also appeal to other idiots who oppose the LGBT community. BUT, they also don’t tell the whole truth, as science has found other biological explanations for homosexuality.
But, in the end, people like Pawlenty will either be politicians ridiculed or forgotten in the history books – ridiculed for being idiots opposed to a group of equal citizens or forgotten for not doing anything noteworthy instead of legalizing gay marriage or Tweeting pictures of their junk.
tjr101
Why waste time covering this snooze? No one’s gonna nominate him!
Dorothea from Germany
I don’t believe either that a person’s sexual orientation is genetic/inborn. If sexual orientation were genetic, then ALL identical twins would have the same orientation. And studies have shown that if one identical twin is gay, then there’s only a 50 % chance that the other identical twin is gay, too. Also, if sexual orientation were inborn, then where do all the late-in-life lesbians come from? Do you believe that they didn’t really love the men they were with before they discovered their gayness? I think that one’s sexual orientation is pretty much like one’s taste in music. You can’t choose or change what you like, but what you like can change over time. Any sexual orientation can be a short, a longer or a life-long phase. I don’t understand why gay people in the USA are so adamant that they are born gay. It kind of sounds like an excuse to me, “Oh, it’s not my fault that I’m gay. I was born this way.” As if you hate your gayness. Here in Germany, gay people don’t care much about the cause(s) of their orientation. And why should they? If you are happy about the way you are and don’t want to change your orientation, then why bother about its cause(s)? You might argue that whether or not being gay is a choice, plays a role in terms of gay rights, but that’s bullshit. People deserve equal rights regardless of why they are the way they are. Now you’ll probably say that straight people are more likely to support gay rights under the premise that being gay is inborn and not a choice. And you are right about that. However, these people support gay rights for the wrong reason. They think as follows, “Oh, it’s not their fault that they are gay. They were born with this defect. They are already punished enough with their gayness. Therefore, we should feel sorry for them and give them equal rights as an act of mercy. However, if being gay were a choice, then gay people shouldn’t be granted equal rights. Because in this case, they could and should choose to be straight, since straight is the better alternative.” So, although these people are (conditionally) in favour of equal rights, they still don’t think that being gay is equally good as being straight. And perceiving gayness as inferior is totally insulting and homophobic. I don’t give a shit about such people’s “support”. Actually, those pseudo-supportive people infuriate me even more than the openly homo-hating people, because the pseudo-supporters usually praise themselves for being so gracious and open-minded. That’s just disgusting.
Jeffree
@Dorthea in Germany: Your binary (either/or) thinking is based on a very narrow view of genetics. Please look up the concept of “epigenetics” which will explain some of the many variances found even in “identical twins.”
asdSR
I agree somewhat with the Dorthea-if someone is gay by choice or by genes does it matter? If I choose to only wear pink shirts over the much preferred blue shirts, does it matter? If someone is gay who cares how they got there in the first place?
Jeffree
@asdSR: It matters because people who believe sexual orientation is a choice *also* believe people can change their orientation. Those same people believe homosexuality is a dïsease and/or a sin.
That’s why such people don’t support marriage equality — because they believe we could & should “choose” to marry someone of the opposite sex.
Parents who believe their sons or daughters “choose” their orientation use that rationale to send their children to “reparative therapy” which is ineffective, unproven, and dangerous.
Dorothea from Germany
@Jeffree:
“Please look up the concept of epigenetics”
Thanks for the tip. However, the mere existence of epigenetics does not prove that people are actually born gay.
“That’s why such people don’t support marriage equality – because they believe we could & should choose to marry someone of the opposite sex.”
In my opinion, instead of trying to convince straight people that being gay is not a choice, we should put all our efforts into convincing hets that all sexual orientations are equally good. This way, we could kill two birds with one stone. We would not only get hets to support equal rights but also for the right reason. That makes the cause of gayness irrelevant.
GayGOP
@asdSR: I tend to agree with you. I furthermore would like to point out that a person’s sexuality is essential to defining that person. Like Religion. Religion is provably a choice. Sexuality is not. Religion gets special protection because it is fundamental to a person’s identity. Sexuality, even if it is a choice, is also fundamental to a person’s identity. Why should sexuality get any different protection than religion.
Jeffree
@Dorothea from Germany*: In general, the issue of “causation” is mostly of interest to people who wish to believe homosexuality is a choice. That fits in with the religious viewpoint that being gay is willful & sinful. That line of thought is extremely prevalent in the US due to the level of religiosity in this country.
I don’t find many gay men or lesbians so concerned about “cause” because we believe it’s an inborn or deeply ingrained characteristic. The search for explanation may be a defensive response to the old & still common belief that gayness is “caused” by poor parenting or some childhood trauma.
I agree with you 100% that the cause(s) should be irrelevant in the effort to assure equal rights to people regardless of sexual orientation.
[p.s. I’m very sorry I got your name wrong earlier!]
ewe
oh him and his gender creative dogma.
Roman
He’s an idiot. Oh gosh, why am I SO TIRED?
Patsy Stoned
Apparently this smug jackass was born an asshole…and chooses to stay that way.
Dorothea from Germany
@Jeffree:
“The search for explanation may be a defensive response to the old & still common belief that gayness is caused by poor parenting or some childhood trauma.”
I remember Don Lemon’s appearance on the “The Joy Behar Show”. He was emphatic that he was born gay and that being gay is not a choice. I’ve also heard several native English speakers on YouTube insisting that they were born gay. Oh, and of course, Lady Gaga sings, “You were born this way. (…) He made you perfect.” Such statements piss me off because they sound like an excuse to me. People usually only feel the need to emphasise that something is NOT a choice when they think that if it were a choice, it would be a bad choice. These people make it sound as if being gay is a bad thing. Here in Germany, I haven’t heard a single openly gay person mentioning that he or she was born gay.
I also dislike when people say stuff like, “God made you perfect.”, “God makes no mistakes.”, or “God loves everyone.” That’s bullshit. First of all, God doesn’t exist. Second, if God existed and made everyone perfect, then why do paedophiles exist? Third, if God existed and didn’t make any mistakes, then why do homophobes exist? Why do some people get cancer? Why are some people born with disabilities or become disabled later in life? If God made no mistakes, then apparently these people deserved what they got. Do religious people really believe that? Fourth, if God existed and loved everyone, then why did he/she/it only save Noah and his family and drown all the rest of mankind? … Religion is a plague that must be eradicated.
Also, Meghan McCain once said on “The Rachel Maddow Show” something like, “I support same-sex marriage because it is a proven fact that people are born gay.” This statement got me thinking about this whole topic and made me realise that there are straight people who consider gayness inferior despite supporting equal rights.
Terrapins100
@Dorothea from Germany I am thoroughly confused on how you can compare sexuality to taste in music. I don’t even see how the two are remotely comparable.
The reason we Americans are so adamant about defending sexuality as something out of our control is because it is the most logical way to defend against those opposed to homosexuality. You mention how the people in Germany never say they are born gay. Well the people in America never say they are not born gay. I have never heard any person say they have chosen who they are sexually attracted to. Regarding late in life lesbians, just because they come out late in life that does not mean they were not gay their entire lives. A pretty frequent occurrence here is married couples getting divorced because either the man or woman finally discloses their true sexuality. They did not choose their sexuality. They chose to get married to deny themselves.
Perhaps I misinterpreted your original post, but I cannot fathom all homosexual Germans have chosen to be attracted to the same sex.
Dorothea from Germany
@Terrapins100:
Thanks for responding. However, you should read more thoroughly. It is right that I compared sexual orientation to taste in music, but I also wrote, “You can’t choose or change what you like, but what you like can change over time.” Only homo-haters think that being gay is a choice!
There are not only the two possibilies of innateness and choice. I believe that sexual orientation just develops somehow, with different factors playing a role. One of them is certainly genes, but it’s not the only one and not necessarily the decisive one. Own experiences can also have an influence. A person’s sexual orientation can change, but it can’t be actively changed or controlled. In kindergarten and primary school I was only attracted to guys. Then, I became more and more interested in girls as well. In my teenage years my relationship to my father started to worsen, because he’s a heartless prick. I am sure that this is one of the reasons (Not the only one!) why I now feel more drawn to women than men. So, my sexual orientation changed from straight (Kinsey 0) to bi (Kinsey 4). If sexual orientation were innate, then I could not have experienced this change.
Regarding my comparison of sexual orientation and taste in music: People have certain likings, e.g. for a certain kind of music/film/food and also for a certain kind of people. It’s all a matter of personal taste. And personal taste can change over time. Therefore, I think that these things can be compared. Why should your liking for men/women be innate when your liking for a certain kind of music/film/food is not innate?
Terrapins100
@Dorothea from Germany: Thanks for the clarification. Didn’t mean to berate your original post. Just a quick background one me…I’m in my late 20’s and have been in the closet since day 1. From the moment I realized I was attracted to men I vowed to myself to just ignore it and it would go away. Ignoring it didn’t do the trick, and I sit here today teetering on the edge of finally embracing my true self, or continuing on the same path I have been on. I guess this would be considered my “crossroads” in life and I am not handling it well. Ok enough of the self pity 🙂 Anyway, when I see any debate regarding choice and sexuality I cringe when I see people that still feel sexuality is controllable (After re-reading your post I understand that you are not one of these people).
You originally said “why care about its cause.” That is a fabulous mindset to have and hopefully one day I can get there. For me I’m still in the “I would choose straight if I could” boat.
Obviously I have a good chunk of internalized shit to deal with which is on me to figure out. Again didn’t mean to discredit your posts and sorry for my misunderstanding Cheers!
Dorothea from Germany
@Terrapins100:
I am sorry to read that you have difficulties accepting who you really are. Have you been brainwashed with religion? If so, then just bid farewell to your imaginary “friend”. Why would you want to worship someone who thinks that you deserve to die for making love to your boyfriend?
Anyway, try to think rationally. Men and women are equally valuable and legally equal, right? Therefore, it does not make a difference morally and must not make a difference legally if you are in love with a man or a woman. All sexual orientations are equally good, because all human beings are equally precious. And whether or not a couple can make a baby together, doesn’t matter at all. Thanks to assisted reproductive technology straight people are not necessary anymore to ensure the survival of mankind. Gay people can procreate as well, just not accidentally. And that’s actually an advantage. When same-sex couples have children, then at least you can be sure that they have these children because they really wanted them and not just because they were too stupid or too lazy to use contraception.
Apart from that, I really can’t understand this whole obsession with sexual orientation. Why are people categorised based on which biological sex they prefer? People are attracted to each other for a variety of reasons, not just because of their biological sex. There are so many other physical and non-physical features that could be used to classify mankind. You could categorise people based on the skin colour or hair colour they prefer in a partner or if they are attracted to people who are taller or smaller than them or if they want to be with a macho or a softy. Imagine the crucial factor were skin colour, not biological sex. Then mankind wouldn’t be divided into heterosexual, bisexual and homosexual, but rather into heterodermal, bidermal and homodermal. Sounds totally absurd, right? The concept of sexual orientation appears equally ridiculous to me.
Hope that helped you a bit.