THE SHOT — Supporters of “No On 1” console each other after last night’s loss. Blogger Blabbeando, who was at Protect Marriage Equality’s headquarters, says “for a majority of those gathered it must have come out of nowhere. For most of the night, they had been looking at incoming reports and cheering what seemed to be an early win for the ‘No on 1’ side. Alas, that was not to be.”
Fitz
You can flame away, but MAINE DESERVED TO LOOSE. As did us Californians. The folks in charge keep running these god damn polite, gentle “please don’t hurt me” ads while the opposition uses powerful scare tactics. Until my fellow faggots can stand up for themselves, they don’t deserve civil liberties. Grow a pair, or shut the fuck up.
dontblamemeivotedforhillary
Maine voters spoke volumes: We are the Third Reich of America!
Lance Rockland
Time to BOYCOTT the entire fucking state! Cancel your vacation plans to Ogunquit or Portland. Give your money to people who don’t hate.
REBELComx
Lance, remember that only about HALF the state voted against us. And it was a state who’s leaders did the right thing the first time around. Lets not punish the other half of the voters or our gay brothers and sisters who are suffering the defeat. THEY need our support more than ever.
DON’T boycott the whole state. Just go where you know your money will be helping allies.
terrwill
What we need to do is mimic the Washington situation across the country. To be perfectley honest I don’t give two shits about the term “marriage”. I want the exact same rights and benefits that straight couples are entitled to and enjoy.
If the rightwing-nutbag zealots want to claim the term “marriage” let them have it. The Gay unions I have attended where the couple basically create the ceremony to reflect their own relationship have been ten times more moving, inspiring, and heartfelt than any marriage ceremony I have attended in a church or temple. The argument these rightwing-nutbag zealots use is that they don’t wish to deny us rights but object to the term “marriage” due to religious connotations. And if they are able to deny us our rights thru continued success in legiislative and ballot mearures we will face an insurmountable battle.
The fight over the term “marriage” is a tremendous cash cow for the likes of the actual cow Maggie Gallagher and her vile ilk. They raise millions thru their campains of fear. The success of Washington is the key. If we can get everyting but a simple term “marriage” let them have it. There will be those who will argue that we are then second class citizens. If we are entitled to every right and benefit as straight couples, can create our own ceremonies that cater to our relationships, why then fight for an institution which is based on religions and cultures that spread hate towards us? Again let them have the term, give us the rights…………….
I will gladly accept separate but equal. I WANT to be separate from these hate fulled vile zealots and their sacred “marriage”
Attmay
I’m boycotting the whole goddamn thing. No Maine lobster, no L.L. Bean, nothing made in that homophobic hell hole.
Keith Kimmel
No. 1 · Fitz
“You can flame away, but MAINE DESERVED TO LOOSE. As did us Californians. The folks in charge keep running these god damn polite, gentle “please don’t hurt me” ads while the opposition uses powerful scare tactics. Until my fellow faggots can stand up for themselves, they don’t deserve civil liberties. Grow a pair, or shut the fuck up.”
I couldn’t agree more. We need to take the kid gloves off. The other side has no problem kicking below the belt, we shouldn’t either.
Keith Kimmel
Also, lets be honest these ballot issues are being defeated because the majority of Americans DO NOT support gay marriage. We need to stop burying our heads and acting like all of these ballot results are fake. They aren’t. They do reflect
But this is not a majority rules all society. Sometimes, what the majority wants doesn’t matter. We have a Constitution and it says that all of us are equal. Thats where we need to focus the fight. Like abolishing slavery, this is a fight that will first be won in the Courts and in the street, not at the ballot box. The Constitution exists to protect minorities (yes, we are one) from a tyranny of the majority.
The one thing these “protect marriage” campaigns are good for is exposing who in Corporate America is with us and who is against us. By looking at the donor lists, it makes it real easy to see which side companies and PACs are really on. You can say whatever you want, but money talks and bullshit walks.
Republican
I think gay marriage should continue to be pushed for in states that are open to it, but I think we should try the civil unions route in some states, like Maine, that aren’t quiet ready.
Before you jump on me for taking a less aggressive approach, let me explain why I think that’s the right way to go about it in those states. There is no doubt in my mind that civil unions are not true equality, so I understand why the concept is upsetting to so many people, but I’m also aware that there are lots of gay couples out there who are getting older and closer to death whose relationships aren’t recognized at all in their states. For them, civil unions that come with almost all the benefits of marriage are certainly preferable to nothing at all.
That’s not to say that gay marriage won’t happen someday soon. But we are in part playing a waiting game here in terms of age. In general, the younger you are, the more likely you are to support gay marriage.
Republican
Keith,
I hear what you’re saying (and I’m glad you recognize that gay marriage is something that the majority currently opposes; it’s sometimes hard for people to admit that most people don’t think like they do), and court challenges are of course reasonable, but can I ask you to be more specific about winning the fight in the street? I understand where that anger comes from, but I’m not sure that would actually accomplish much at all.
Ethan
why are we no longer rioting? The LGBTQ movement has become a bunch of wimps asking politely for rights. Politeness has NEVER worked.
Republican
To add to my first comment, I see no reason why there couldn’t be a push for both marriage and unions that are all but marriage in name. In each anti-marriage state, work on getting a bunch of moderates to agree to civil unions and then have one legislator that keeps introducing a gay marriage law until the people either change their minds or the old ones die off.
Republican
Ethan,
When has rioting worked? Protesting, sure, but rioting? At least in the USA, I don’t see evidence to suggest that it’s an effective tactic.
romeo
@ Terrwil #5: You make a good point, one that has occurred to me on this matter. But I think Fitz #1 is more to the point. Just look at that picture at the top of the page. There we are again, weeping and weeping. I don’t mean to insult those fellows, but this is what America sees far too often from us. Better those fellows were shown flipping Maine off.
And not just Maine, but the Democratic Party. There is nothing truer than the best way to really hurt somebody is to give them what they want. Democratic dominance is precarious. Without our votes they will lose their edge. The Republican Party has been reduced to Terrwill’s “right-wing nutbags” whose complicity nearly brought this country to economic ruin last year. If they get back in office they will finish the job, guaranteed. They are pathological in that respect. They can’t help themselves. And their most rabid supporters are the ones who will suffer the most from them. The majority in America are beyond reason, direct behavior modification is in order.
As for us, since we don’t have any luck getting justice or protection, even though we’re a biological minority, then perhaps we’d have better luck getting a special federal mandate to carry concealed weapons, so we can do a better job of protecting ourselves and each other. I’m not joking. We pay the same taxes and more, and we have to put up with being murdered, beaten, discriminated against, ridiculed in every form of media, and generally abused and intimidated — virtually with impunity. Anybody watch “Tosh 2.0” on the Comedy Channel? That closet case never utters one sentence without a gay slur. At least “South Park” tries to balance their homophobia with an occasional joke for our side. We all know how angry most of us are, but too often we take it out on each other instead of directing it out where it belongs.
I voted for Hillary because I wanted an angry bitch on my side who wasn’t afraid to twist some nuts and keep a shit list. Obama seems like a nice enough fellow, but it looks like he’s turning out to be what I feared. Glib but useless, and no friend of ours.
terrwill
While we gained one in Washington and lost one in Maine. One of the most encouraging events isn’t getting a lot of play. The rightwing-nutbag zealots got a huge bitch slap by the moderates in the Repugnatcan party. In the 28th District in NY the RWNBZs forced a moderate repub out who supported abortion and Gay marriage. Scarah Pallin, Beck, Hannity and their vile ilk got behind the extreme conserative party candidate. The jilted rep candidate then supported the Democrat and thankfully the lunatic fringe lost in decent way. Goes to prove all vile poo these scumbags are spewing about “getting back to traditional values” are being rejected even by the moderate repubs. Virgnia only the last election got somewhat blue, so going red wasn’t that much of a suprise. As far as New Jersey Corizine lost because of the skyrocketing taxes in that state. Most voters polled stated moral “values” had nothing to do with their voting for Chunky Christy but rather dollar “values” So while the RWNBZs can boast how “the tide has turned” they are as usual only preaching to the choir and that choir is singing a tired old tune that the majority of Americans are tired of hearing……
darek
This picture and those like it should be mailed to all that voted ‘yes’ with a simple “Thank you for taking my rights away” note.
Fitz
@darek– and that note should be rolled into the top of a glass bottle filled with kerosene and hurled into a church.
B
Lance Rockland wrote, “Time to BOYCOTT the entire fucking state! Cancel your vacation plans to Ogunquit or Portland. Give your money to people who don’t hate.”
Over 70% of Portland voted in favor of same-sex marriage.
Maybe boycott the rest of the state, but not the towns or
counties that voted in your favor.
jason
I have to agree with Fitz at the top of the messages here. We were far too sugary in our ads. Heck, sugary turns most people off eventually. Didn’t we learn anything from the California debacle? Don’t we EVER learn???
We failed to use bare-knuckle tactics when we needed to.
jason
I think we should keep the words “gay marriage” but insert a “civil” somewhere. It should be called “gay civil marriage”.
Keith Kimmel
No. 10 · Republican
“…but can I ask you to be more specific about winning the fight in the street?”
I mean though demonstrations, etc. I’m not endorsing terrorist activity or overthrowing the government, despite the fact that on occasion a little bit of revolution every now and again is a healthy thing. There are certain people that should never be able to sleep a single night in their homes because of the protests that SHOULD be happening on their front lawns, but aren’t. An example of this would be Fred Phelps and these Focus on the Family idiots. Why isn’t there a regiment of flaming homosexuals camped out on their lawns permanently to remind them that THEY and not US are whats wrong with this country?
We should begin organizing civil disobedience just like the blacks did not so many years ago. It reminds me of a “protest” they had here in Oklahoma City over this very issue. A few couples went down the Oklahoma County Courthouse to apply for marriage licenses. They were, of course, turned down by Patrica Presley, the county clerk. She was very nice about it. So the homos went outside and made a little show for a while (like, an hour) and then everyone went home. And most people now don’t even remember anything about the day, despite the fact that it happened less than a year ago. This scene has replayed itself time and time again.
We have proven time and time again that we are incapable of and/or unwilling to use the rough and tumble tactics that our enemy employs against us. And yes, they are the enemy. I hate agreeing with George HW on anything, but one of his quotes is applicable here: “You’re either with us, or you’re against us.” There are only two sides to the gay rights issue. You either support equality or you do not. We are in a war for our very survival as a culture and a community, and most of our community still wants to use rubber bullets, crowd control fence and tear gas.
I say fuck that. We need to start organizing the sitins. Can you think of a better punishment for someone like Sally Kern than to fill her office with a bunch of homos? We need people willing to go to jail for what they believe in. We need to create a ruckus. And we need to stop making nice. The time for inaction, half measures and diplomacy is gone. Its time for action.
Attmay
Keith,
If you’ve got the man power and the time, make it happen. Your ideas are sound but you can’t take to the street
What those couples should have done was chained themselves to the desk at the county clerk’s office and refused to move until she issued marriage licenses.
And it was George W (the younger) who said, “you’re either with us or against us”. And it may not be a popular sentiment in gay America but he was right then and he’s right now.
The War on Terrorism is a war against religious fanaticism. It needs to be extended to domestic religious terrorists. And not all terrorists use violence.
Brian
@ Keith Kimmel:
More anger? Are you kidding? We just need more volume, huh?
Ridiculous. You have NO evidence that anger, protest or demonstrations does ANY good for LGBT Equality. If you think you do, kindly provide some examples.
Our challenge is “changing minds.” Anger doesn’t change anyones mind. Never has, never will.
Attmay
@23 Brian:
“Anger doesn’t change anyones mind.”
I don’t give a flying fuck about changing people’s mind. I just want to stop the breeders from using the law to disenfranchise us. By Any Means Necessary. And peaceful means have failed.
If Barney Frank said we should form an organization like the NRA, why don’t we do him one better and actually join the NRA?
romeo
@ Brian #23: Our enemies have substantial influence, and their minds are locked and sealed. Have you seen how crazy their eyes are? They count on us taking the “high road” and being above it all. That just reinforces the perception about us that we’re a bunch of wimps. True, some people are coming around, but we have much to fear in this society if we don’t stand up. We need to show anger at the way we are portrayed in the media. We need to show anger at how easy it is to discriminate against us. We need to show anger at the way violence against us is tolerated and ignored. And on and on.
I’d dispute that anger doesn’t change anyone’s mind. Check out the historical record of the black civil right’s movement, and when things REALLY started to change for them.
For the most part, gay people are just being played for suckers.