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Michael Lucas Is Cheering Switzerland’s Attack on ‘Muslimization’

lucasmgreen

Uh oh. Every time porn impresario Michael Lucas opens his mouth — for purposes other than having a partner insert a male sex organ — it usually generates all sorts of trouble. Often because Lucas’s favorite topic to expound on involves Jews and Muslims, why one is better than the other, and why one is no good at all. And thanks to Switzerland’s just-approved ban of new construction of minarets on mosques, guess who’s got a news peg?

Being from Europe it is extremely painful for me to watch the continent become a province of Islam. This news from Switzerland, a nation that hosts so many wealthy sons of Allah, is a prime example of the bold moves that are necessary to protect each country, to preserve its history and keep its rich culture intact.

Finally the citizens of Europe are realizing the destructive growth and take over of Muslims and their “culture.” I always knew that Europe would wake up; I was just disappointed and still am disappointed that it is taking so long. Thankfully this awakening has lead to legal changes against the Islamic infiltration in many countries. In France and Germany they have banned the heinous and oppressive burqas in schools. As well, mosques and minaret construction projects in Sweden, France, Italy, Austria, Greece, Germany and Slovenia have been met by protesters who stand firm in protecting their country’s identity.

The citizens of Switzerland have spoken out and they do not want the Islamic barbarians coming in and erasing the distinctiveness of their country anymore. The government and politicians consistently employ their self-serving political correctness at the expense of their people. Government leaders across the globe are acting as mere puppets singing whatever tune the Middle-Eastern countries want them to—simply for oil gains and election wins. But the general public no longer wants to play these games.

I am proud of Switzerland for telling its government and the world that this Islamic invasion must stop. European citizens cannot stand for this infestation of Muslims who are tearing down ancient Christian churches to build prejudice preaching mosques, bulldozing freedoms to impose their intolerance and corrupting democracy to place Islamic followers above any law and suspicion that they deserve.

And why even give much weight to Lucas’s beliefs on the Muslim world? Because this is a man who, through his porn producing and starring roles, has assumed a leadership role among the gays. And while he absolutely loves creating X-rated footage for distribution, it’s clear through his latest project (Men Of Israel) that he’s more intent than ever on marrying the two. Also, and this:

As a gay man it makes me sick to see crazed, extreme leftist gays hopping on the wagon to defend Muslims when it goes against all common sense because homosexuals are one of the first targets of Islam. The gay community needs to stop aligning itself with the people who are trying to destroy us. Being gay should not equate you to being an ignorant pushover liberal.

You must care about Michael Lucas because Michael Lucas wants you to.

(There’s more here.)

(Photo via)

By:           editor editor
On:           Dec 11, 2009
Tagged: , ,
  • 284 Comments
    • Pete
      Pete

      Is this aging over the hill he-whore really relevant to anything? Do not expect brains out of this guy.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 3:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MyHeartGoesOn
      MyHeartGoesOn

      Finally someone speaks the truth about Islam!

      Dec 11, 2009 at 3:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Xak
      Xak

      Since when was Moscow, Russia considered being part of Europe (Lucas is Russian, not European). That being said, Russia doesn’t exactly have the most favorable history of homosexuality, or religion for that matter. But then again, this *is* Michael Lucas that we’re talking about, so never mind. ;-)

      Dec 11, 2009 at 3:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Qjersey
      Qjersey

      “Being from Europe”

      Really? Is Russia now in Europe?

      Dec 11, 2009 at 3:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeff K.
      Jeff K.

      Part of Russia is in Europe.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 3:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jared
      Jared

      first, Lucas is from Moscow which is in Eastern Europe. Lucas has spoken out about Russia’s bad treatment of gays on many occasions. it’s clear from the article that he is concerned with the future of western civilization. And rightly so.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 3:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • James Davis
      James Davis

      Moscow and St. Petersburg are both considered to be in Europe.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 3:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • will bryan
      will bryan

      We can agree or disagree with his opinion but it is very clear that he is not brainless. He is obviously very smart and articulate.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 3:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      I’ve never heard of this particular porn whore before but he should stick to sucking cock and getting his ass fucked on camera. His views represent everything that’s wrong with Europe today.

      Most countries in Europe, especially Russia, have declining birth rates. Their remedy? Import labor. Fine. It’s a practical solution. Russia gets many of their migrant workers/immigrants from largely Islamic central Asian countries that are former Soviet Republics. Other European nations import labor from other countries (Germany has a large Turkish and Kurdish populations, France has large number of North Africans, and the UK, South Asians).

      Europeans desperately need these immigrants to do the jobs that they won’t do, but at the same time do very little to integrate them into the body politic and often treat them as perpetual foreigners.

      The US has its faults, but one thing Europe can never hold a candle to is the way the US absorb and integrates its immigrant population. Sure, we’ve had many more years to perfect it, but Europe should set aside its pride and take lessons from us on how to do it right.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 4:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      “He is obviously very smart and articulate.”

      No, he’s pretty much a fucking idiot on this matter.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 4:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • adamblast
      adamblast

      Being fair-minded as possible *does not* mean treating all religions or cultures equally, or even treating them with respect if they deserve none.

      Islam *is* significantly worse than most religions when it comes to oppression and intolerance. They should be stopped whenever and wherever they *can* be stopped–as should all hate groups, even those most American favor.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 4:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      Coll story, AdamBlast.

      Btw, have you heard of the First Amendment? Let me give you a refresher. It, among other things, gives people in the US the right to practice any religion or no religion. It doesn’t really look at the supposed cookiness, vileness, illogic, or irrationality of any faith. Most people think it’s a good thing.

      Do you?

      Dec 11, 2009 at 4:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • che
      che

      @same crap – I think it’s u who is sucking dick too much and not taking time to think. You obviously don’t understand that American immigration is mostly all Christian and Jewish…and not like in Europe where the immigration is 90% Muslim…and as we all know Muslims do not assimilate into society. Europe has made the mistake allowing Muslims into their countries. Now Europe is simply f*ucked.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 4:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AlwaysGay
      AlwaysGay

      I completely agree with him. Muslims must go and Europe needs to tighten it’s immigration policies. Europeans are being taken advantage of.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 4:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      thank you to him and every other person in europe who is waking up to this huge and still-growing problem. mark steyne and others have been talking about this for years. all of the western world should be very alarmed!

      this is not a time for political correctness. especially toward a religious people that have NO respect for other religions and people who live and think differently than them.

      it is NOT the intention of muslims to live peacefully with us. their doctrine is clear. they may interpret it differently. but, make no mistake: their aim is to destroy our western culture. the terrorist islamofascists will kill us. and the “peace-loving” mainstream muslims intend to subjugate us and replace our culture with their own. they spell it out for us loud and clear! and they are mocking us at every move that our politically correct culture accomodates them in their goals.

      please read and wake up! before it’s too late.

      TRUST ME: THE VERY FIRST PEOPLE THEY WILL KILL (EVEN THE ALLEGED MAINSTREAM MUSLIMS), ARE THE GAYS AND LESBIANS. THEIR RECORD AND HISTORY OF VIOLENCE IN EUROPE COULDN’T BE CLEARER!

      http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/european-muslims-debate-should-gays-be-executed/

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurabia

      http://awarforeurabia.blogspot.com/2005/07/mark-steyn-wake-up-folks-its-war.html

      http://www.danielpipes.org/5516/europe-or-eurabia

      http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/06/sarkozy-the-islamization-of-europe-is-inevitable.html

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN4zKPEr68Q

      Dec 11, 2009 at 4:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      The U.S. receives large numbers of immigrants from Islamic South Asian Countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Muslim African countries like Somalia and Nigeria, the middle east and Iran. The US is able to integrate these immigrants into American society with little or not problem. Europe, with all its ethno-national pride, is simply doing it wrong.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 4:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      LOL. Faggots at the forefront of Islamophobia. Nice.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 4:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Xtian99
      Xtian99

      So with all the vitriol Islam spews against women, infidels, gays, etc., – that we have to allow because THEY have a “Mohammed” and if you criticize him or them THEY torch your infidel embassy, call for jihad and behead someone on You Tube tube yet Michael Lucas makes his feeling known and he is a cock-sucking, hate spewing, geographically-chalenged Musovite retard? That’s funny, I thought people who make their women wear lamshades, cut peoples head’s off, drop walls on them, etc. would be the retards here?????

      As one who has lived in Europe as well, maany of his points are spot on, and many Europeans feel the same way – but I guess the fact that he is good looking and put dick’s in his mouth on camera nullifies his right to make statements or have opinions- especailly if those opinions do hurt the feelings of some cuddly-wuddly muslims who just want to cut some throats and blow up some planes?????

      If religion is indeed the opiate of the masses, then islam is the crack cocaine for that some seriously damaged mental midgets.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 4:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AlanInUtah
      AlanInUtah

      I believe all religions are coming to a head and will soon begin to fall apart as none are upholding their traditions anylonger. Nearly all religions are corrupt and cause more harm than they do good. They teach from hypocracy, claiming they are peaceful and loving, yet turn on their neighbors with threats and violence. I wait for the day when they all fail. Then, and only then, will the world begin to build a new foundation where we will be able to work together towards a peaceful world.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 4:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Preston truth
      Preston truth

      @same crap. There should be a limit to how many comments u post. Ur annoying nonsense is getting pathetic as I read down the comments. America just had a Muslim cause havoc with the Fort Hood tragedy. And American muslims only take up 0.5% of the population, while in Europe some cities now have a Muslim population of 50%. America has simply been smart enough to not let Muslims overpower and take over.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 4:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @same crap: they’ve been BANKING on your ignorant and politically-correct help. and so far it’s worked. radical and murdering muslims around the world thank you.

      europe has tried. they’ve been electing and appointing muslims to their courts and government for years. but, it is NOT the intention of the muslims to peacefully co-exist.
      so, i say europe has tried and failed. and now, finally, they are waking up enmasse to take care of this problem. this religion that actively seeks to destroy the western world.

      gays being harassed in minnesota:
      http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2009/07/03/video-somali-muslim-kids-in-minnesota-assault-gay-guy/

      why was theo van gogh murdered?
      http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon_11_15_04td.html

      Dec 11, 2009 at 4:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      To all the people saying that European countries should not let Muslims in, well, they can ill afford to do that. You see, the natives just aren’t having any kids and their populations are diminishing rapidly. They need these immigrants to work and to take care of the aging populations. If you need them, treat them well, integrate them, and they won’t act crazy.

      Demography is destiny.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 4:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      a GREAT example of the great respect islamofascist “respect” for other religions:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/03/world/un-pleads-with-taliban-not-to-destroy-buddha-statues.html

      Dec 11, 2009 at 4:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      It’s funny when gays spew the same neocon fear-mongering bullshit thinking that got us into Iraq. Is this why you all want DADT lifted? So you can fight and die misadventure, too.

      haha@at these Debbie Schussel and Pam Gellar groupies

      Dec 11, 2009 at 4:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      Same Crap’s name says it all, folks.

      All he is spouting, is the same crap, over and over, ad infinitum.

      He lost all credibility for fairness and integration on post no. 16 when he employed the word faggots.

      No champion of fairness and rights of the oppressed, he. He only champions the rights of those who are committed to the destruction of rights (and lives) of those who are the oppressed.

      Same crap’s cry for the acceptance and assimilation of religions like Islam, is transparently veiled homophobia.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 4:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      Oh yes. No gay person has ever used word faggot, ever.

      You want to deport/send to concentration camps every Muslim AMERICAN living here, but I am the oppressor? Right.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 5:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @same crap: please learn the skill of reading comprehension, and the definition of neo-con before you use such a big word.

      many of us don’t want war with muslims. we want to protect our culture from a group of people who have said LOUD AND CLEAR that their intent is to destroy us. it’s very simple.
      and, again, i’m confident they would thank you for fighting their battles. it’s what they’ve relied on for decades.
      but the masses are waking up. THANK GOD!

      Dec 11, 2009 at 5:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      Btw, I believe in the entire first amendment? Do you all?

      Dec 11, 2009 at 5:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      I know no one wants to be labeled that as it is an ugly, ugly term and represents the worst of all American political thought, but if the shoe fits…

      Dec 11, 2009 at 5:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • blech
      blech

      This is exactly why I fucking hate relgions, especially the judeo/islamic/christian variety. It’s an unending bitch fest over right and wrong. Global future is based on secular laws and reason, not on the teacheings of shepards and barbarians…

      Dec 11, 2009 at 5:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @same crap: i do believe in the first ammendment. but guess who doesn’t? the islamofascists who will kill you for saying one fucking thing that violates the koran or their doctrine. it’s really simple.
      try moving to a muslim dominated country and establishing a new Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, or Hindu place of worship. you will be killed. it happens a few times a year.

      wake the fuck up.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 5:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @same crap: do a bit of research on sharia law. and see how much they will hate our first ammendment and the western european tradition of free speech if they are ever allowed to be in control.

      we can not take this stuff for granted. if sharia law were in place in the united states right now, we could be killed for having this conversation. unlike theo van gogh and the other murdered europeans who took their right to speech for granted, we can not. and we must stop this.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 5:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • James Davis
      James Davis

      Dear Same Crap,

      The First amendment doesn’t apply here. This was a Swiss action. That said I’m all for immigration of every diverse ethnic group that wants to melt into the existing culture bring some of their own flavor but not overpowering the existing taste (yes I love School House Rock Great American Melting Pot). The Swiss vote was a reaction to the immigration of political islamists (not all muslims are political islamists) who do not want to become part of the larger whole, opting to be separate and teach hate of any non-believe in Islam.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 5:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark
      Mark

      Uh, have any of you people read a history book? One hundred years ago, WASP Americans were saying the same sort of things about Jews and Catholic immigrants.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 5:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • thurd
      thurd

      @mark

      more like 150 years ago…during the mid nineteenth century to be more exact..one hundred years ago eugenics was in vogue…a culmination of bad science melding with prejudice.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 5:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • I pliss
      I pliss

      not for nothing but that was a very well written strong piece of literature! Go Lucas. He can write and suck dick! But on a serious tip. He is right! they are like roaches and the bad kind. I have nothing against them but when they start to come in and take over places and then turn they nose up at the people that are paying their bills then that’s a problem. There is a store on my corner that i don’t go too because they are so nasty and mean to customers!

      Dec 11, 2009 at 5:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B Damion
      B Damion

      Hhhhhh…he is a lost cause…
      Next>>>>>>>>>>
      This story is for the “Birds”……

      Dec 11, 2009 at 5:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Paschal Lehany
      Paschal Lehany

      There are extremists and bigots in many different groups. Of course there are bigoted Muslims but there are undoubtedly bigoted Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Shikhs, Atheists, Agnostics, etc. An entire group should not be judged based upon the actions of a few. I’m Irish and Irish people murdered innocent civilians in Britian many years ago during terrorist attacks. Simply because Irish people did such terrible acts doesn’t mean that I should be punished. I met a Muslim from Iragi Kurdistan in my school who was a very nice boy and certainly not a terrorist. Stop spreading hate against innocent and defenceless people. A homosexual should know how it feels to be judged and attacked unfairly.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 6:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @mark and thurd: um, i have read a history book. it was necessary for my history degrees. and there are even contemporay books and essays that completely explain for you and i the huge difference between the Jewish, Christian/non-Protestant, and muslim migration patters, intentions, and consequences.

      and, you might be aware, every objective contemporary historian and theologian has pointed out the primary difference between immigrants of the last several centuries, and this new wave of muslim immigrants: people who seek the American dream and only choose to worship freely. versus people who seek to conquer western civilization and expect the existing culture to succumb to THEIR culture and social customs.

      the majority of political and fascist/extremist muslims have NO intention of assimilating to our world. don’t take my word for it. their intentions are very clearly spelled out for us. we only need to read about their dream of killing western civilization, including America.

      and that is VERY different from my own Scandinavian and Lutheran ancesters. they came here for opportunity, for the American dream, and for value of American exceptionalism and culture. they didn’t litigate their way into our world or expect government welfare programs. they assimilated, provided for themselves and others, and created a blended world that married their traditions with America, while always respecting the supremacy of American culture, law, and tradition.

      that is NOT the intention of muslim immigrants:
      two years ago, the city of las cruces, new mexico had to defend itself from muslim litigants because the cross on the city flag was offensive. thank God, the city won. meanwhile, at the exact same time, the youth muslim football league in the bay area was kicking off. a few of their team names: infidel and barbarian. so, to be clear: we MUST respect them, but they have NO desire or need to respect us.

      again, they are BANKING on our ignorance and political-correctness.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 6:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • thurd
      thurd

      @roger

      for the record my comment was a clarification. I understand what you’re saying.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 6:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • thurd
      thurd

      Although I must admit, given your history credentials, I’m a bit wary of your generalized opinions of an entire immigrant community.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 6:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @thurd: luckily, they are not just my opinions anymore. we’re lucky that so many are catching on to the intentions of the most destructive islamofascists and extremists.
      and, i’d be happy to provide more data and evidence. but, this is, in fact, a gay blog, not a conference or paper. huge difference.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 6:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alexandre
      Alexandre

      I agree with him.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 6:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Patrick
      Patrick

      Fundamentalist sects of the worlds religions are mind enslaving forces within human civilizations. The sect most dangerous at this point in time is the variety of fundamentalists within the religion of Islam.

      This has nothing to do with people of any particular continent, country or ethnicity. This has everything to do with recognizing that there is no freedom of speech or freedom of religion once the great horrors of fundamentalist theocracy and theocrats gain power.

      Once that happens, once the priestly class of a religious fundamentalist ideology is in charge of the weapons and the schools, say goodbye to ALL FREEDOMS.

      In other words, I fully support efforts to thwart the spread of religious fundamentalism. It’s not racist. It’s not misguided. It’s enlightened self-interest of all people who cherish diversity, freedom and life.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 6:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Since when does being a porn performer qualify one for lucid international commentary? Go back to your camera lens, Lucas.

      As for Switzerland, it’s been homophobic for a very long time, way before the Muslims migrated there. My Swiss friend says that, at the social leverl, the Swiss are very homophobic.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 6:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • thurd
      thurd

      How many times have you posted on this thread? Now is not the time for modesty. Forget it though.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 6:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • alan brickman
      alan brickman

      Muslims will kill gays…it’s just that simple…certain ones have no problem honor killing their wives, sons and daughters..whats the confusion? they are in “expansion mode” as we speak…

      Dec 11, 2009 at 7:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @thune: it’s about audience and forum. i’m sure you understand.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 7:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      sorry, @thurd, obviously. sorry for the mistake!

      Dec 11, 2009 at 7:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • c0rpusdelicti
      c0rpusdelicti

      I wouldn’t even steal Michael Lucas’s pornography.

      I could care less what idiotic opinions spew forth from his mouth.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 7:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ricky
      ricky

      i have no problem with switzerland doing this. it is after all their country. what is good for the goose is good for the gander. you cannot go into a muslim country and set up houskeeping and take over the neighborhood with your christian symbols. it aint allowed.

      muslims moving to the west need to assimilate into the culture of the country they move to. (this goes for jews as well, that has always been their problem, the inability to assimilate while keeping their religious identity).

      if these people want to leave their barren homelands for a life in the plush water rich environment of the west, then they need to start playing nice or they can go back to where they came from.

      i really have NO problem with shipping the malcontents all back and putting up a fence. quarantine works for me. screw the oil. they need us more than we need them. they accept barbarism and quite frankly i do not see why we should have to put up with it any more.

      the entire basis for their culture is flawed. they are not like the west where only parts are totally messed up (the religious aspects most prominently, but they do not dominate all aspects of the culture).

      i know there are historical foundations of conflict between the east and the west. but, the west moved on while they CHOSE to remain an uneducated bunch of nomads living on crappy real estate in a lousy climate. location, location, location.

      they are a bunch of middle aged single men that can’t jack off, drink or have sex with limited entertainment venues who if they are gay and have sex they get murdered and if they are straight have have sex might get something whacked off. top it off with required multiple thankging god for your crappy life in a crappy country where it’s too fucking hot and there is nothing but sand with the only hope for getting laid is when you’re dead and you get a bunch of grumpy campers. and it is all caused by a religion which is even worse than christianity.

      as right thinking muslims cannot bring themselves to speak out against this stupidity, they can go back with them. either wear your patriotism on your sleave and denounce them or you can leave.

      they CHOOSE to be backwards so to hell with them.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 7:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ricky
      ricky

      i do not have to accept anyone’s religious beliefs.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 7:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Eyal
      Eyal

      Michael,
      You are saying all the right things. happy Hanukkah.

      Eyal Feldman,

      Dec 11, 2009 at 7:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bin rabbi al wahid
      Bin rabbi al wahid

      funny how all you queers lust after middle eastern men, but you dont want to live next to them?

      Louts, the lot of you.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 7:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dan j
      dan j

      43 has it right. It is religious fundamentalism that it the threat to freedom and equality. But it is a serious threat. Always has been and always will be. But Islamic fundamentalism seems to be the most dangerous at this point in time, and it continues to spread.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 7:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @bin rabbi: i wouldn’t mind living next to them at all. if their most extremist leaders didn’t want to blow me up. and not in a good way. or if even their mainstream leaders didn’t want to subtly and progressively destroy my culture. other than that, i LOVE them. but, not in a lusting way that you suggest.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 7:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike
      Mike

      For those of you who care to read (or who can), get Bruce Bawer’s “While Europe Slept.” A very frightening book.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 7:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @mike: that is a GREAT book. i bought it and mark steyn’s “america alone” last year while i was in denver for the dnc.

      thanks for mentioning it. those of us who are awake are obligated to speak out!

      http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1596985275/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0895260786&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=05XTQD3E0KBEE7ZZJY63

      Dec 11, 2009 at 8:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bin rabbi al wahid
      Bin rabbi al wahid

      Why would I want to read a frightening book? Unless I needed fear to validate my position….Yeah Islamic extremisists are enemies, and yes christian fundamentalists are as well, but are we suggesting the same for the baptists regions of america as we are from those islamic counterparts in Switzerland et al ? No. Stop playing into current events play doh. Understand politics a bit more, especially geo-politics, you freaks. Isn’t it always more covenient to disparage the “other” ?

      Dec 11, 2009 at 8:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @ No. 37 · Paschal Lehany

      If your post were not as ridiculous and funny as it is, I would be feel grossly insulted by your idiotic words. Now that I think about it for a second, I AM grossly insulted.

      There are extremists and bigots in many different groups. Of course there are bigoted Muslims but there are undoubtedly bigoted Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Shikhs, Atheists, Agnostics, etc.

      Yes. But the big difference is, none of the other groups of people you mention have called for the murder of homosexuals…yet, as have the Muslims and the President of Uganda. Of Prick Warren, I am not so sure.

      Simply because Irish people did such terrible acts doesn’t mean that I should be punished.

      And simply because I am a homosexual, doesn’t mean that I should not be allowed to march in the St. Patrick’s day parade either.

      I met a Muslim from Iragi Kurdistan in my school who was a very nice boy and certainly not a terrorist.

      And I once met a nice Christian man who murdered a gay friend of mine in New York City and certainly was not a homophobe.

      Stop spreading hate against innocent and defenceless people.

      Okey dokey. We will leave that to Islamists who are calling for the death of all homosexuals.

      After all, I do want to be politically correct…at all costs…lest I offend anyone whose intent it is to destroy the land of my birth…as well as anyone who disagrees with them.

      Obviously, you have conveniently forgotten the wanton destruction of private and public property in Denmark and the hanging of five youths whose only “sin” was homosexuality.

      When they come hunting for your queer ass in the middle of the night, as they did in pre-war Germany, I wonder if you will still be so willing to defend those who hate your very being?

      A homosexual should know how it feels to be judged and attacked unfairly.

      Funny. I was thinking exactly the same thing about the Irish when we were told that queers were not wanted in the parade…and in the land of my own birth, no less.

      It gives new meaning to the term “ingrates”.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 8:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bin rabbi al wahid
      Bin rabbi al wahid

      @@@@schlukitsch – the definition of declasse

      wtf do you propose? Murdering muslims en masse w/o due process over your scholastic book knowledge on world events…you’re a gifelte fish reading idiot. Get back in line, wait for your ration card, and hope that its short and quick….fucking dumbass…I’ll give you a breakdown.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 8:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @ No. 53 and 57 · Bin rabbi al wahid

      all you queers and you freaks.

      Ah yes. Precisely the way to garner the respect and understanding of those you choose to be so deprecating of.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 8:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bin rabbi al wahid
      Bin rabbi al wahid

      @ shloo

      fuck off, I’m gay or queer and sometimes I’ll say to a group of my own peers that they suck, and you do, because you’re choosiing to callously follow psycho screed….I fucking think your argument is reprehensible, deal with it.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 8:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @bin rabbi: you and your apologist and ignorant friends will be among the very first the extremists will kill if they are allowed to succeed. that isn’t fear-mongering. it is a fact that is proven by their history. read up.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 8:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bin rabbi al wahid
      Bin rabbi al wahid

      @roger

      dipshit. blowing it all way out of proportion…you know whats really killing your little world? it really isnt poor muslim immigrants in germany, who, I might add, dont run western armies and governments….Your melodrama is tiring.

      Out.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 8:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @ No. 59 · Bin rabbi al wahid

      Where exactly was it that I said that? You raised that ugly specter, not I. And isn’t it the Shariah’s that want to murder homosexuals en masse? I think that you have your facts a little twisted here.

      you’re a gifelte fish reading idiot.

      Utterly charming. Psst. Your anti-semitism is showing.

      Get back in line, wait for your ration card, and hope that its short and quick…

      One of the surviving guards of Auschwitz or Dachau, are you?

      fucking dumbass

      Very respectful…and PC too!

      I’ll give you a breakdown.

      Sorry. I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. Would you care to clarify that comment?

      @@@@schlukitsch – the definition of declasse

      And you, no doubt, after your deluge of insults and deprecating comments, consider yourself to be a paragon of suaveness and class?

      Dec 11, 2009 at 8:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @bin rabbi: you are out. out of argument. thus, the ridiculous name calling.

      meanwhile, if anyone reading this really thinks a few of us are blowing this out of proportion, please go back up the thread to read the links that i’ve posted. and do your own research about the muslim agenda for western civilization.

      about the absolute violence directed at westerners IN western europe and north america. especially gays and lesbians. and those who dare to speak out against social injustice.

      and about the absolute death of our economic systems/social welfare systems due to the abuse by muslim immigrants.

      or read the koran and see what they believe about people/infidels who believe differently from them. and what they are called to do to you. to us as a culture.

      ARM YOURSELF WITH INFORMATION!

      muslim extremists have been CLEAR about their intention. and the mainstream muslims have as well, although their “ammunition” is quite different. much more subtle and subversive. parasitic even.

      i’m abundantly thankful to anyone, including a porn star, who is brave enough to go public with the truth!

      Dec 11, 2009 at 8:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @ No. 38 · roger

      and that is VERY different from my own Scandinavian and Lutheran ancesters. they came here for opportunity, for the American dream, and for value of American exceptionalism and culture. they didn’t litigate their way into our world or expect government welfare programs. they assimilated, provided for themselves and others, and created a blended world that married their traditions with America, while always respecting the supremacy of American culture, law, and tradition.

      Very well said, Roger.

      And, that was precisely the way it was for my German and Austrian ancestors as well. Our ancestors contributed to the fabric of American society instead of trying to rip holes in it and overturn it, as seems to be the desire and need of the Islamofacists.

      Our sense of political correctness, has become our own worst enemy.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 8:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      Co-sign, No. 43 · Patrick

      Dec 11, 2009 at 8:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @schlukitz: thanks! as i said above, we are obligated to speak up now before it’s too late.

      and, on another note: bravo is showing “brokeback mountain” right now. any guesses on some middle eastern countries where it would be illegal to be watching this movie?

      Dec 11, 2009 at 9:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      In No. 15, Same Crap wrote, “The U.S. receives large numbers of immigrants from Islamic South Asian Countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Muslim African countries like Somalia and Nigeria, the middle east and Iran. The US is able to integrate these immigrants into American society with little or not problem. Europe, with all its ethno-national pride, is simply doing it wrong.”

      One might, however, ask why the following article/editorial appeared a British paper, The Guardian. It seems to be a reaction to some Muslims wanting to live under Sharia law, and that doesn’t seem to be happening in the U.S.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/feb/27/religion.islam

      Also,

      http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/101934/Young_Muslims_in_Britain_Demand_Sharia_Law

      (No idea if any of these claims are exaggerated and by how much, but the Guardian seems to be a mainstream newspaper, not something from a fringe group).

      Dec 11, 2009 at 9:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @b: that article and that commentary are very accurate pictures of the intention of muslims: to use our own open society and court systems against us. and, we are naive to think they only want to live under sharia law for themselves. our culture offends them at their core. their intent is to CHANGE our culture to fit sharia law. we must act.

      http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia-europe.html

      “In Germany, for example, Muslim men have successfully used the Sharia law in court to defend their right to beat their wives and to practice polygamy.

      In United Kingdom, where Islamic imams now outnumber Christian pastors and converting empty church buildings into mosques has become a cottage industry, the Archbishop of Canterbury – the leader of the Church of England – recently stated that adopting elements of the Sharia law into the English judicial system was “unavoidable”.

      In France, home to an estimated 14 million Muslims, including 9 million illegal immigrants, the government no longer controls the banlieus, the densely-populated, predominantly Muslim ghettos that encircle most major French cities.

      It is still legal in France to distribute Bibles and tracts but doing so in the banlieus, where the French police seldom enter, invites mob violence, and even the legality is expected to end by 2040 when France is projected to become a majority-Muslim nation (The Netherlands will become Western Europe’s first majority-Muslim nation by 2015). Sharia is also gaining in North America.”

      Dec 11, 2009 at 9:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      Both interesting articles, B.

      I was under the impression that immigration meant respecting and obeying the laws of the host nation and pledging allegiance to it, not the other way around. And since when did we allow hordes of people to come to our shores and tell us what WE have to do?

      When foreigners attempt to overpower the host nation, change it ways and change it’s laws, that is called an invasion.

      Perhaps Immigration is the wrong term to describe what is happening both in Europe and in America? It is beginning to look and sound, more and more, like an invasion.

      And when a sovereign nation is invaded by foreign political and religious nationals, history has shown us what the usual response to that sort of thin is.

      And it sure as heck ain’t called peace!

      Dec 11, 2009 at 9:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      Correction. “Thin”, in the next to the last paragraph, should be “thing”

      Dec 11, 2009 at 9:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Caleb
      Caleb

      same crap wrote “”The U.S. receives large numbers of immigrants from Islamic South Asian Countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Muslim African countries like Somalia and Nigeria, the middle east and Iran.”

      Actually we receive very, very few immigrants from any of those places compared to other nations. Very few. And certainly not as many as Europe receives. As for our ability to assimilate our immigrants, apparently you are blind to the world around you. Take a trip to any rural area south of the Mason Dixon, east to west coast and tell me how well the hispanic immigrant population has been absorbed. Our immigration policies, while perhaps more liberal than people think, are shameful in how we do very little to encourage immigrants to assimilate to American culture. Then we blame them when they don’t speak English as well as we’d like. Insanity.

      I actually thoroughly support nations like Switzerland and France enacting what we might see as harsh laws against public displays of religion. The Islamic faith is teeming with misogyny, homophobia and archaic principles that have no place in a modern society. I fully recognize and admit that most religions carry with them similar burdens (Catholics are still really uptight about women and their role in society). Forcing women to cover themselves and making it policy to stone adulterers (and gays) to death is obscene. I say it is well within the authority of Switzerland, France and any other nation who sees fit to say, you can come here, but you’re leaving that archaic worldview at the door when you enter. If that isn’t possible, you can stay in Iran.

      (Maybe if we had been more strict on letting religious fanatics into this country, we wouldn’t be dealing with nonsense we do today).

      Dec 11, 2009 at 9:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      You don’t know what you are talking about, Caleb.

      Have you been to Jackson Heights, NY, Minneapolis, Houston, the NoVa/DC region, Dearborn, MI west Los Angeles? All these places are huge immigrant hubs for South Asian, Somali, Iranian, Arab, and various other Muslim immigrants.

      The US has one of the strictest immigration policies in the Western world. It selects very heavily for highly-educated and high-skilled immigrants.

      The only people who deride immigration are those who don’t like the demographic changes brought on by it. In 50 years this won’t be a majority white country, and I don’t see how that is a necessarily a bad or scary thing.

      Go on with your Teabagging lot. Your country is changing and there is nothing you can do about it.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 10:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @same crap: yes, minnesota. let’s revisit my favorite state to see how the muslim immigrants are assimilating. and respecting people.

      this is, but one of MANY examples of muslim extremist and intolerant behavior in America.

      http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/07/muslims-in-minnesota-we-hate-gays-video-of-assault-.html

      Dec 11, 2009 at 10:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      LOL@ this ‘invasion’ language. Get it through your skulls, Europe needs these immigrants to replace the kids that Germans, French, Italians, Scandinavians, Russians, are NOT having.

      Europe is not letting in immigrants because it feels benevolent or has some social duty toward the third or Muslim world. Policy makers there read and interpret the dire demographic data, and realize their countries cannot continue without immigration.

      Europeans can be schizo about it all they want to; needing these workers, but bemoaning their attitudes and way of life, but something has got to give.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 10:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      and, now the very smooth and respectful of American culture of muslims in detroit, michigan:

      http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/arab-america%E2%80%99s-store-wal-mart-submits-to-sharia/

      Dec 11, 2009 at 10:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      and, now the very smooth and respectful of American culture and gays in washington d.c.

      http://current.com/items/91224172_homosexuals-must-be-killed-moderate-muslims-speak-out-muslim-day-washington-dc.htm

      “Just imagine the national and international outcry if a tea party protester had said this. But this will receive no notice from anyone.

      Yusuf Islam, aka Cat Stevens, who is seen by many as a beacon of progressive Islam, once called for the killing of homosexuals. He has never retracted the statement.”

      Dec 11, 2009 at 10:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      people, WAKE UP! our media doesn’t broadly report this news of American citizens being harassed and threatened by muslim extremists. and, when they do, they tend to substitute the word “arab” for “muslim” for some insane reason!!!
      political correctness dictates the way they are reporting this stuff. that is exactly why we must speak up. deniers, you are wrong. deadly wrong.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 10:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      Look roger, you can post links to wingnut Muzzie-hating blogs until you turn blue in the face. I don’t care. You’ve obviously sided with the anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim teabagger set, and there is nothing wrong with that. Happy trails…

      Dec 11, 2009 at 10:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @same crap: deny all you want. you were warned. watch the videos. these are REAL incidents. not made up by me, or limbaugh, or hannity, or beck! and there are MANY more.
      as i said before, our enemies are BANKING on political correctness and ignorance. so, on behalf of them, thanks!
      but, those of us who are awake won’t shut up for you.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 10:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      ok, dude. go fight the menacing muslim hordes, real or imagined.

      btw, did you hear the one about the airTran flight? that made the wingnut blog circuit. wasn’t that incident a complete fabrication by made by a possibly over-caffeinated (maybe drunk?) Walter Mitty?

      Dec 11, 2009 at 11:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Of course we need to be on guard against fanatical Muslims. But we also need to be on guard against the porn industry. The porn industry has done immense harm to the cause of gay rights, reducing male-male sexual activity to sex between drug-addicts in need of cash for their next purchase.

      Let’s not forget porn’s bisexual double standard, which also harms our rights.

      Dec 11, 2009 at 11:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @same crap: more news from us crazy people. and the la times. who knew they were in on our wacky agenda? wake the fuck up.

      http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-us-radicalization7-2009dec07,0,3941551.story

      Europe had been the front line, the target of successive attacks and major plots, while the U.S. remained relatively calm. But the number, variety and scale of recent U.S. cases suggest 2009 has been the most dangerous year domestically since 2001, anti-terrorism experts said:

      * There were major arrests of Americans accused of plotting with Al Qaeda and its allies, including an Afghan American charged in a New York bomb plot described as the most serious threat in this country since the Sept. 11 attacks.

      * Authorities tracked other extremism suspects joining foreign networks, including Somali Americans going to the battlegrounds of their ancestral homeland and an Albanian American from Brooklyn who was arrested in Kosovo.

      * The FBI rounded up homegrown terrorism suspects in Dallas, Detroit and Raleigh, N.C., saying that it had broken up plots targeting a synagogue, government buildings and military facilities

      Dec 11, 2009 at 11:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      http://gayandright.blogspot.com/2009/08/2-brothers-forced-to-move-because.html

      “..and when they came for me, there was no one around to hear, the others were already taken.

      All that it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing.”

      Dec 11, 2009 at 11:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      more evidence of muslim “respect” for other religious practices:

      http://www.chroniclewatch.com/tag/muslim/

      CAIRO, EGYPT (ANS) — Dina el-Gowhary, a 15-year-old Egyptian girl who converted from Islam to Christianity, has sent a plea to President Barack Obama, complaining of mistreatment by the Egyptian Government and asking for his mediation.

      This has been revealed in a story by Mary Abdelmassih and posted on the Assyrian International News Agency website — http://www.aina.org.

      “Mr. President Obama,” Dina wrote, “we are a minority in Egypt. We are treated very badly. You said that the Muslim minority in America are treated very well, so why are we not treated here likewise? We are imprisoned in our own home because Muslim clerics called for the murder of my father, and now the Government has set for us a new prison; we are imprisoned in our own country.”

      Abdelmassih stated that the handwritten Arabic letter, posted on Coptic websites, also says “I am 15 years old but I still have hope that my message will reach President Obama.”

      Dec 11, 2009 at 11:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • marvin
      marvin

      Give Michael Lucas credit for stimulating an important discussion. Agree or disagree with him, but to dismiss his arguments because he owns a successful porn company seems imbecile.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 12:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      Hi Roger. If you are not already familiar with him, you might enjoy watching some of the videos of Pat Condell who lives in Great Britain. He’s onto the insanity of all religions, including Islam and Sharia Law. He doesn’t pull any punches.

      http://patcondell.net/

      Dec 12, 2009 at 1:30 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • romeo
      romeo

      The reason the US has so far more or less integrated muslims is because we have only a miniscule number in comparison to Europe. And there are other alternatives to solving a labor shortage than importing a terminal cancer. Importing muslims was just easy for Europeans back before the realization of the obvious problem. As for how easy it has been in America, Muslims start causing trouble in proportion to their numbers. Thanks to our recent history (!) and the example of Europe, we have started to restrict muslim immigration, so all of you citing America as a positive example of muslim integration, don’t. Even with such a small number, it ain’t all that positive. I have participated in college classroom discussions with Muslims, and their cold-blooded disregard for human rights and individual liberty amazed me.

      Islam in incompatible with the West. It’s as simple as that. But by all means let in all their gays.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 2:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 74 · Same Crap wrote, “You don’t know what you are talking about, Caleb. Have you been to Jackson Heights, NY, Minneapolis, Houston, the NoVa/DC region, Dearborn, MI west Los Angeles? All these places are huge immigrant hubs for South Asian, Somali, Iranian, Arab, and various other Muslim immigrants. The US has one of the strictest immigration policies in the Western world. It selects very heavily for highly-educated and high-skilled immigrants.”

      If you’ve ever worked in Silicon Valley, you’d have met a very large number of immigrants, and many have “green cards” that let them live and work here, but not vote here (it is much harder and more time consuming to become a U.S. citizen).

      Dec 12, 2009 at 2:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @ No. 74 · Same Crap

      <i.Have you been to Jackson Heights, NY…

      Saludos Amigo!

      Apparently your Fromer’s Travel Guide is in need of some major updating.

      Jackson Heights, the neighborhood that my community borders on, has a high concentration of Indian and Bangali people, as does Astoria bordering Jackson Heights to the west; a medium concentration of Colombian people and a low density of folks for Argentina and Uruguay.

      http://walkingaround.com/

      Obviously, you are not a native of Queens, NY, or you would have been aware of the ethnic make-up of Jackson Heights.

      Saludos Amigo.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 3:04 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      Oops…I forgot to erase the last comment when I moved it to the top of my post.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 3:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      What’s your point? It has a high concentration of Indians and Bangladeshis. They are South Asians, with the latter being mainly Muslim.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 3:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kieren
      Kieren

      @ Same Crap: your nickname is perfect! You spew the same crap the knee-jerk liberals always spew. At least you live up to your name. Same crap … over and over and over again. :)

      And I love the debate over the Muslim faith … it puts most uber-liberals in a very awkward position. Do you defend a ‘minority’ religion (it is the majority in many places around the world, but we’ll overlook that at the moment) or do you defend those who this religion would oppress. You can’t have it both ways. Either you fight for the right of Muslims to continue to oppress women and gays, or you defend the rights of women and gays against the Muslim faith. Which will it be?

      It is easy for the knee-jerk liberals to scrutinize/attack/criticize Christianity (as do I). Why is it so hard to extend that to any other religion that oppresses people’s rights?

      Please do us a all a favor before you post again: think before you speak. No seriously, actually look at what the debate is about and instead of assuming that criticism is suddenly based on nothing more than bigotry, try to get your pinhead around the real issue. (OH, a second thing – at the very least stop making things up. It just makes you look silly.)

      Dec 12, 2009 at 9:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kieren
      Kieren

      Roger posted this earlier but it is something that I think should be revisited:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qxjocm5fCc&feature=player_embedded

      Does Christianity have to answer for its attacks on others? You bet it does (Uganda is a prime example of an extreme force relying on Christian doctrine to support its hatred of gays). Is Judaism free of any culpability in the treatment of minority groups (although there are two sides in the Israeli and Palestinian conflict, we all know that treatment of the Palestinians has been extreme)? Of course not. Why should we hold them accountable for bad behavior and not Muslims?

      Dec 12, 2009 at 9:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Joseph
      Joseph

      If you replace the word “muslim” in his article with the word “Jew” it could have been written in 1936.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 10:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @ No. 93 · Same Crap

      What’s your point?

      My point is that the information you supplied is not altogether accurate.

      In addition to Indians and Bangladeshis, you also threw in Somali, Iranian, Arab, and various other Muslim immigrants and this conflicts not only with the information contained in the site I quoted, but with my own experience of the area.

      If you are going to embark on a campaign of trying to make everyone else on this thread look stupid, then at least try to get your facts straight by doing a little research of your own.

      Then you said in post no. 76…

      LOL@ this ‘invasion’ language. Get it through your skulls, Europe needs these immigrants to replace the kids that Germans, French, Italians, Scandinavians, Russians, are NOT having.

      Has the thought ever occurred to you that these nations might just be taking some responsibility and making a conscious effort to put the brakes on our world-wide population explosion?

      With in excess of 6 billion people on the planet, the last thing we need is a society of people who believe that their women folks should be regarded as and be used as baby factories to contribute to the problems we are already facing as a result of overpopulation.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 10:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kieren
      Kieren

      @ Joseph: Typical deflection.

      Why not talk about the issues at hand instead of trying to toss in this red herring. Or is the actual discussion too uncomfortable for you?

      Let’s see: in Germany, the Jewish people did not have an active and public war on the German people. I certainly don’t believe there was a declaration of a HOLY war on Germany. Suicide attacks? Um, no. Attempt to push Jewish law on the Germanic people? Nope. Good try.

      Question: do you support Sharia law and believe it should be allowed in Western countries? Have you even looked into Sharia law? Do you believe religious rights are more important than personal rights (the rights of women, the rights of gays)?

      You say exchange the word Muslim with Jew and it puts the argument in perspective. As I explained, it does not. However, use Christian instead of Muslim and you’d be on the other side of the debate and you know it.

      Religion, whatever the form, needs to be challenged and questioned. Nothing in society that has that much power should go unchecked. But to think that one faith (in this case the Muslim faith) deserves a free ride is ludicrous and dangerous.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 10:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • romeo
      romeo

      @ Joseph #96: Uh, Joseph, the Jews had been assimilated into Europe since the Romans. Also, they were among the most tolerant and accomplished of Europeans. The prejudice against them was not because of their violent intolerance and hatred of the culture in which they were living. Muslims are bringing it on themselves in the West. The Jews did not. They were scapegoats in 1936. And the last time I looked, no one was herding the muslims into trains to haul them off to Poland to systematically exterminate them.

      But if the Muslims could get away with that, they would. They say as much. They’d be herding every non-muslim into trains.

      Fuck Islam

      Dec 12, 2009 at 10:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @ No. 98 · Kieren and No. 99 · romeo

      I too took issue with Joseph in his post no. 96 and my response to him would have been in much the same vein. His comment was indeed, a red herring or to quote another poster whose comments I very much enjoy, “a surf-by shooting”.

      Co-sign on both of your posts.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 11:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      schulkitz, i thought you were the slightly smarter teabagging islamophobes on here. i might have to revise that.

      i see selective quoting is an unfortunate right wing trait that never goes of style.

      my list didn’t only mention JH, NY as a immigrant hub, but these other cities/urban aras as well: Minneapolis, Houston, the NoVa/DC region, Dearborn, MI, West Los Angeles.

      Those following areas have large Somali, Pakistani, Arab, and Iranian populations, respectively. try to keep up.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 11:20 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • romeo
      romeo

      The Iranians here in Los Angeles are quite secular and westernized because they are mostly the middle class refugees that ran for their lives when the shah was deposed. They spend more time on Rodeo Drive than any of us do, if that’s possible. LOL I know some of their boys. Very cute. Their parents would love to go back to Iran, kill all the mullahs and re-establish a secular state based on high-end shopping. Now if the rest of Islam could just be that realistic.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 11:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • legriff
      legriff

      Just wow at the hysteria here. At the point of the law passing, the Islamic invasion of Switzerland was so endangering that there were a grand total of FOUR minarets across the entire country.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 11:35 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • romeo
      romeo

      Not hysteria, just concern. Like the psychologists say, it’s not paranoia if someone really does want to kill you.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 11:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      Hysteria is all they have.

      Some teenagers say something mean in the midwest. OH NOEZ! TEH MUSLIN TERRISTS HAVE INVADED!

      Some lady in Michigan wants to wear a scarf in public: OMG SHARIA LAW HAS COME TO ARE LAND!!!!

      Dec 12, 2009 at 11:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • romeo
      romeo

      Uh, same crap, I think they also took out half of lower Manhattan killing more people than Pearl Harbor. If some poor benighted woman wants to walk around sealed up in a burka, let ‘er. Just helps our case in pointing out the obvious.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 12:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      Ok, Rudy 9ui11ani, the 9-11 card is a little tired.

      I don’t live in perpetual fear of remote possibilities occurring, nor in a world where imagined enemies are all around and out to slash my throat without hesitation. It must be strange, sad place to live in.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 12:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @ No. 101 · Same Crap

      Nice job of worming your way out of what you said, dude. Rest assured that what you think of me, is not causing me to loose any sleep.

      If you will re-read my post nos. 91 and 97, I did NOT take issue with any of the other areas you mentioned. I have never lived in any of those areas, so I would not be speaking from experience, had I chosen to.

      I only disputed your assertion about Jackson Heights, NY, an area that that my family lived in since 1941 when this home was built and that I have lived in, on and off, for most of my 73 years on this planet and I have been witness to the many ethnic changes that have taken place over the years.

      But, all of that aside, and according to your views “try to keep up”, what the fuck would I know about Jackson Heights, right? You, a person who does not even live here, are going to tell me what my neighborhood is all about. I love it. I am really quite surprised that you did not tell me that I don’t know my ass from a hole in the ground.

      I can just see you in my mind’s eye, standing on the bow of the ship, waving your finger in the air and loudly proclaiming “But, I was definitely in the right”, as your ship slips under the waves.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 12:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @ No. 107 · Same Crap

      I don’t live in perpetual fear of remote possibilities occurring, nor in a world where imagined enemies are all around and out to slash my throat without hesitation. It must be strange, sad place to live in.

      Yep yep. You are in precisely the same space and mindset most Americans were when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. It too, was a remote possibility according to our Naval brass, or they wouldn’t have left the entire fleet there like sitting ducks. We never saw them coming.

      But, you are probably too young to remember that. And since you can dismiss 9/11 and the loss of nearly 3,000 lives with the snap of a finger, the loss of some 6,000,000 Jews and tens of thousands of homosexuals during the Holocaust, can also be dismissed with snap of a finger by folks like you who are living in an impenetrable straw house like the deluded three little pigs of comic lore.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 12:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      From the 9-11 card straight to the Holocaust. Nice.

      Wingnuts are masters of hyperbole, I’ll give you guys that.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 12:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kieren
      Kieren

      @Same Crap – Rather than dispute actual points everyone is making, all you can do is cry out “WingNuts!” Making stuff up wasn’t really working, was it?

      I ask again: do you support Sharia law? Would you be perfectly okay with it existing in the US or Canada? [Do you know anything about Sharia law (and not what you assume it is or made up)?] Do you think t is perfectly okay for a group of men to impose the Hijab on women?

      I did some (admittedly) superficial checking on past stories here on Queerty dealing with Iran’s execution of gay men. Know who didn’t have a thing to say? ‘Same Crap.’

      What is it about the Muslim faith that has you so enthralled you can’t even criticize it at its worst? Seriously; why do you act as if a) it shouldn’t be criticized and b) it is a harmless faith?

      I would be very interested if you would answer these questions. I would be even more interested if you could do so without resorting to ‘wing nut.’

      Dec 12, 2009 at 1:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • HellIsWaiting
      HellIsWaiting

      SAME CRAP = FULL OF CRAP.

      Roger for President of the United States of America.

      I am from Houston. I have seen the Muslim invasion, even in this city. I am not religious. Lately, the Christians in this town have taken to erecting gigantic crosses, 150 feet high, to send the message: We’re not gonna fuck’in take it. In Downtown Houston, another giant cross. To send the message: we’re not gonna fuck’in take it. I was initially against these symbols. But not any more. If anything, it should be a constant reminder to the Muslim invaders that they are in are in Christ-loving town.

      Islam is not a peaceful religion. All you coddlers don’t understand: They want you DEAD. Fuck that. And when you get your panties into a bunge over what Christians are doing to you… maybe you should take aim at the other enemies within, who seek your total destruction. WAKE UP.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 1:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ferry
      ferry

      Sad.

      I would say that every religion and all of their expression’s should be equally outlawed, not just Islam. That will solve the problem, but you idiots only focus on fire and brimstone.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 2:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Peter
      Peter

      Interesting discussion. My take on it all is;;;Work very hard to retain our Constitution with its Separation of Church And State at all costs.

      Side note; one hundred tall crosses only increase the probability of religious wars in this country.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 2:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Peter
      Peter

      Oops….one hundred foot tall crosses..

      Dec 12, 2009 at 2:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @ No. 110 · Same Crap

      From the 9-11 card straight to the Holocaust. Nice.

      Not one to disturb your fairy-tale, myopic existence in your little straw house, it seemed pointless to try to engage your short-span and disinterested attention to the world theater in between those two catastrophic events.

      As a matter of fact, I am even now, wondering if you will be able to stay with my former paragraph to the conclusion. No doubt, you will find it a bit taxing, handling so many words in one sentence, since the word “Winguts” seems to occupy the bulk of your vocabulary.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 3:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      kieran, i am a secular humanist. i don’t care about islam or christianity, or zoroastrianism, or any faith. i don’t fear any of them them, and i don’t live in a perpetual fear like you and the other petrified little screechers here. (for right-wingers who pride yourselves in being militaristic he-men, you sure are a bunch of bed-wetters scared of the faintest ‘boo!’ lol.)

      look, should i be worried about the possibility of me being killed by flying debris while walking down the street, or being the victim of a serial killer, or spontaneously combusting? eh, maybe. all those events might be in the realm of actual possibily, but their probability is the same as some Muslim killing me or making me live under Muslim laws.

      I know sharia will never come to the US. The Constitution is too strong to allow that. I have faith in it. I don’t need to stoke fears of nasty brown hordes at our borders. such is the stuff of bigotry that we gays should be better than.

      i know right bloggers and “thinkers” trade in fear as a currency, telling everyone they will die at a moment’s notice (btw, that AirTran flight was a “dry run,” right?). but that tactic is losing it’s effectiveness. righties may have won on that platform during the early part of this decade, but you haven’t won on that recently.

      put the fear aside for a moment, and live.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 3:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      ok, girls, i won’t use the term, ‘wingnuts’ anymore. happy?

      Dec 12, 2009 at 3:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @ No. 113 · ferry

      Sad.

      I would say that every religion and all of their expression’s should be equally outlawed, not just Islam. That will solve the problem, but you idiots only focus on fire and brimstone.

      Perhaps you should go back and re-read the posts on this thread and others.

      This time with your spectacles on, please.

      Oh…and I seem to have missed the post wherein someone addressed you as an “idiot”?

      Great way to make your posts credible and of interest enough to inspire others to respond.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 3:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gladys
      gladys

      He’s absolutely, 100% right! Spot on.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 3:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @ No. 111 · Kieren

      I would be very interested if you would answer these questions.

      Once again, Same Crap has chosen to side-step your very explicit questions by replying that he is a secular humanist. Slippery little eel, isn’t he?

      I would be even more interested if you could do so without resorting to ‘wing nut.'”

      Same Crap responded with: “ok, girls, i won’t use the term, ‘wingnuts’ anymore. happy?”

      Snark aside, that is probably the only concession that you will ever win from him.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 3:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      How do you guys even make it though your daily lives living this in such fear? Do you cower and hide in a bush and call the FBI when you see some 75 year old Arab woman in a head scarf walking your way?

      Dec 12, 2009 at 3:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @ no. 114 – Peter

      Side note; one hundred tall crosses only increase the probability of religious wars in this country.

      You say it like it is a bad thing? LOL

      Dec 12, 2009 at 3:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kieren
      Kieren

      Same Crap – you are, well, he only real idiot here.

      If I am a nut, I am a left-wing nut. I am not a warmonger, don’t listen to morons like Rush and O’Reilly. See, what i do is actually think through an issue and make up my own mind. And I don’t fall for political correctness nor am I moved by thought bullies like you. (Still find it interesting you can’t make a point without relying on insults. Be interesting to see if you can sustain any argument without name calling.)

      And I am so glad that you only care about your part of the world. The fact that gays are executed in Iran is a pointless fact to bring up because YOU are more likely to be struck by flying debris. So why fuss about the abuse of anyone else’s rights as long as Same Crap is safe and sound. And Sharia law, whether you like it or not, already exists in the Western world. It is not yet recognized by most Western governments – though some have come close to saying it should be allowed – but it is active and alive in most Muslim communities. I guess my concern for women who are treated as second class citizens in countries where their rights should be protected, and my concern about the proliferation of homophobic propaganda is showing a little more empathy and heart than you are capable of.

      When you start caring about other people’s rights, and not just your own little bubble in the world, I may be more interested in what you have to say.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 3:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • marion from Germany
      marion from Germany

      This guy didn´t understand what the voting in switzerland was about. It was only about minarets not about mosques or the islam anyway. In Switzerland there are 4 great mosques with minarets. In Germany we have a lot of mosques, but many people do not want minarets cause of the function. That´s all.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 4:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @ No. 124 · Kieren

      (Still find it interesting you can’t make a point without relying on insults. Be interesting to see if you can sustain any argument without name calling.)

      Same Crap’s consistent usage of snark and name-calling, makes his comments totally irrelevant.

      When you start caring about other people’s rights, and not just your own little bubble in the world, I may be more interested in what you have to say.

      Co-sign. I am done with him. He’s not worth the time we are spending on him.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 4:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dan
      Dan

      Now the gays have their very own Orly Taitz. Lovely.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 5:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ousslander
      ousslander

      I’m shocked and proud of the reaction many of you have had to lucas’ comments. I thought this being queerty that you would blast on things not relevant to the argument and not his argument which is correct.

      Glad to see there a more gays leaving the pc plantation

      Dec 12, 2009 at 5:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John from  England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
      John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)

      @ Ousslander

      Which gays do YOU know are PC? Please…

      Gays are racists, sexist, evil and cruel like every other human being..

      @ Samecrap

      Dude.

      This is the issue. Muslim people don’t seem to be wanting to really say what Islam is about, instead they shout at the West. What’s that gonna do? You’re dealing with dumb f*cks who think it is actually ok to go into people’s country STEAL the resources they have RAPE them of their culture and then get REALLY p*ssed off because the fight back!??

      Hello? Yes, Britain from the 16th century until the US took the mantle and FLEEEEW away with it in the early 20th Century. (Not even included that America doesn’t belong to the white but to the red man-sigh).

      You know? It’s a game of facts and history.

      Christianity when it started as a sect back in the roman times underground was actually incredibly liberal and quite communist like. Think St Francis of Asissi. Furthermore, it was one of the only sects THAN that treated women equally.

      Now lets talk about Islam. Lets talk about Persopilis. The beautiful ancient city that was destroyed by Alexander the Great and was the FIRST royal realm to NOT treat the Jews as Slaves. Persopolis was in Persia. Persia is now Iran.

      Lets talk about the Moors who came to Spain in 711 CE, treated slaves like equals re they were able to be educated and built the Alahambra in Southern Spain around the mathematical concept of peace and cohesiveness.

      When the Catholics came to invade from back East they destroyed everything and NEVER treated the slaves with the same respect. Instead built churches made of gold for people to worship and pay more money.

      Remember the Christians came to Africa and South America and they weren’t so nice.

      The Moor people are actually a mixture of the West Africans and Northe African Muslims, from dark as the night to dar caramel.

      And they were fearless and prosperous for 700 years…

      But it’s sad what has happened to both religions and the dogmatic people they have brought into ‘ideals’ that started with ‘noble’ intentions.

      Have you heard of the term ‘cognitive dissonance’?

      It may save you arguing so much on blogs and being disheartened! :-)

      Dec 12, 2009 at 5:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      Hey, why’d the queerty editors change the pic? Lucas looked less gross in the other one. :/

      Dec 12, 2009 at 6:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @ No. 129 · John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s)

      Not wishing to sound like the spelling police, no doubt, you meant Alhambra as opposed to Alahambra. ;P

      I had the pleasure of visiting that magnificent palace back in the 80s when I still had friends living and operating an art shop in Marbella. It’s really quite lovely and impressive.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 6:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • marvin
      marvin

      Queerty seems to have decided to change Lucas’ picture and to create an idiotic tag line to the post (see below) because the discussion turned too serious for them and there seems to be too much support for Lucas’position. They don’t like that — it doesn’t square with their self image as bitchy gossip queens. So tear down Lucas personally to disqualify his opinions — that’s demagoguery at its best (or worst).

      Dec 12, 2009 at 7:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      In Holland there is a whole lot to do about Islam and muslims, and its quite complicated. There has even a party risen that gets 15-20% of Dutch votes in polls (we have national elections in 2011), this party is quite discriminatory against muslims, they wanna limit some freedoms, like a temp ban on building mosques, ban on muslim schools and some other stuff. Ofcourse Im against this party. As a gay woman, I know what it was like to be discriminated against, so dont want to do it to anyone else. Are there problems with muslims? Yes. But not all muslims are criminals, not fundamentalists (with both groups im intolerant though, but it has nothing to do with them being muslim-I dont accept any fundamentalism, not Christian either and no crime). What is difficult though is having to deal all over again with a conservativeness towards homosexuality, we have to go through that again in Holland, and especially for me as a homosexual this is tough. We had that battle (and some parts are left) with the christian fundies and I dont have it in me to deal with it again. So, my tolerance levels have dropped, which may not be that bad, who has to tolerate someone else religious intolerance?

      Due to the Islam debate though, homosexuality has been lifted as value of Western society in Holland, and the Dutch see it as part of our culture its accepted and Islam has to stay out of it. This really rocks ofcourse. I, and many with me feel like being tested all over again due to Islam and many are quite tired of it. The majority of muslims integrate, but a part refuses to, and they are a problem and invoke real resistance with many Dutch. We’ll have to find a way to live with it. The muslim population is only 5% though and the only muslim party we have, not even nationally but regionally, is a very small secular (!) party. So, thats cool.

      What happened in Switzerland was a ban on the minarets, but the people that voted felt it was more of a message to muslims they have issues with their religion. Its highly likely a Swiss court will rule the ban unconstitutional.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 7:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John from  England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
      John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)

      @ schlukitz

      Blurh. I knew that! I didn’t check the spelling on da internet. But how awesome is it??

      Love the structural design..

      Dec 12, 2009 at 7:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 3rdtimetrying
      3rdtimetrying

      Thank you Wen for bringing common sense and education to all of our white gay male nazi commenters. They’re no better than fundamentalists !!

      Dec 12, 2009 at 7:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      3rdtimetrying, thanks, I havent read all the comments yet in this thread, but will soon. And youre right any fundamentalism is wrong.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 7:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      3rdtimetrying, I just now read this article of the porn actor. Two things, to keep it short. First, the ban on the minaret in Switzerland was NOT overwhelming, only 58% voted for it (which is not overwhelming), out of about 45% of Swiss who got out to vote.
      Second, the numbers this guy uses on France’s fertlity rate are incorrect for muslims (8.1, thats not even possible).LOL. I know about these false statistics going around the net, they come from a by christians promoted Youtube video against Islam.
      Its been predicted for Holland, in 2050 amount of muslims will be 8-9%. It is demographically and geographically IMPOSSIBLE they will EVER become a majority here. People like the porn guy spread lies. But as you said, he’s one of those (gay) nazi’s.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 7:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kieren
      Kieren

      @ 3rdtimetrying – Typical. No argument. Nothing to add. Just name calling. And the assumption that everyone here with a contrary opinion is white, is male, and of course HAS to be a nazi. Well played … not.

      Do you have anything constructive to add? HEY! maybe you can answer my questions (which ‘Same Crap’ ignored … unless you are Same Crap as you sound just like him).

      I ask these questions truly interested in the answer, because I have yet to hear a single person so bent on defending the Muslim faith which is so bent on the eradication of gays and lesbians, and the enslavement of women, answer these honestly.

      I ask again: do you support Sharia law? Would you be perfectly okay with it existing in the US or Canada? [Do you know anything about Sharia law (and not what you assume it is or made up)?] Do you think it is perfectly okay for a group of men to impose the Hijab on women? Have you spoken out against the execution of gay men? Or their imprisonment? Or is that an inconvenience?

      What is it about the Muslim faith that has you so enthralled you can’t even criticize it at its worst? Seriously; why do you act as if a) it shouldn’t be criticized and b) it is a harmless faith?

      Dec 12, 2009 at 8:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jimmy
      jimmy

      The Swiss law placed no restriction on Muslims’ freedom to worship. It’s a zoning law. As far as freedom to worship is concerned, Muslims get a far fairer shake in Western nations than than do Christians in Islamic societies. That is an unvarnished fact.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 8:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      Kieren, I know youre not asking me, but I wanna say, and to clarify my previous posts, its one thing to have valid criticism on Islam and muslims, it’s another to discriminate and demonize them. Two totally different things. And as soon as a country you start taking rights away (human rights) or infringe on them, then it gets dangerous, this is how it started in Germany and we have to keep an eye on that.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 8:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @helliswaiting: i proudly accept your nomination!!! thanks.

      i’m sure i’ll have more to write, but THAT just HAD to be said.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 8:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      Jimmy, it doesnt matter that muslims have a better life in Western nations than Christians have in Islamic societies. What does for example, a Bosnian muslim have to do with laws in Egypt? Nothing.
      Also, there was a protest today in Switzerland by muslims against the Minaret ban. For many muslims it does extend to their religious faith. How do you feel if others ban your rights to eg gay marriage? Same thing.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 8:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kieren
      Kieren

      @Wen – I totally agree with you. There are amazingly kind, thoughtful Muslims out there. And I don’t mean that there are just a handful of them. Some are moderate. Some are progressive. Some are more conservative but understand that living in a democracy there are certain laws which come before their religious teachings .. or that they need to work within the context of their personal convictions.

      And it also becomes dangerous when people assume that because someone is from the Middle East they are a) necessarily Muslim, and b) is Muslim, they are a Muslim who prescribes to a specific ideal.

      I am not against mosques in my city. I am not against protecting the right of Muslims (and every other religion) to live freely and without prejudice.

      My issue is with a certain view point within the Muslim faith that has a very strong following. I think it is dangerous to allow any view to exist without serious criticism when it endangers the lives of others. And sadly, views against women and gays are not just a radical fringe within the Muslim faith.

      Do similar views exist within the Christian community? Of course. Uganda is a sad example.

      However, to not be able to criticize a religion without the Political Correctness police attacking us is exactly what i fear most … the elimination of free speech. A dutch cartoonist is dead because of editorial cartoons he made about Mohamed. A school teacher was almost lynched because she allowed her Muslim students to name a teddy bear Mohamed. A brilliant book, Sataniac Verses, would have been banned (and several lives were endangered) because of a very active, and very militant arm of the Muslim faith. And these are not a small radical fringe.

      To say all Muslims are a danger to our society is as foolish as those who have said the same thing about Jewish people. But to ignore the very large numbers of Muslims who are holding onto a very medieval view of the world, and of rights, is equally mislead.

      Sorry if I put the rights of women and the rights or gays above the rights to practice not just religious intolerance, but active abuse of various minorities.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 8:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      Kieran, I agree with you 100% re: to have the right to criticize dangerous aspect and points of views, and the danger of doing it.
      A month ago in Holland there was a wellknown guy that spoke out against the party that is anti-muslim, and this man also was threatened (and not by muslims, ofcourse!), also with death and had to call in for police protection. As you can see, the dangers are coming from various sides!! So, the Freedom of Speech is under attack. Its scary and how to deal with it? I dont know.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 9:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @ No. 140 · Wen

      And as soon as a country you start taking rights away (human rights) or infringe on them, then it gets dangerous, this is how it started in Germany and we have to keep an eye on that.

      No argument there. In Germany, rights were being taken away from Jews and homosexuals by a total dictatorship which professed itself to be Christian. On the back of each brass military buckle was the inscription “Gott mit uns” which means God is with us.

      Despite efforts to whitewash the atrocities committed by Hitler and which were roundly supported by Christians, Germany was, in fact, a very Christian nation.

      http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhitlernazigermany/Adolf_Hitler_Nazi_Germany_Christian_Nationalism_AntiSemitism.htm

      Here in America, rights are again being taken away from homosexuals by the Christians and cult followers. What the Mormons recently backed with cold, hard, cash in California (Prop 8) and the recent stripping of same-sex marriage rights in Maine (Prop 1), is no different than what was going on in pre-Nazi Germany.

      We of the LGBT community watched in horror as five young men whose only crime was being homosexual were hung in public in front of a cheering crowd from the back of a moving truck to die a slow, agonizing death and the free world did nothing about it.
      In fact, it was not even noticed or acknowledge by der Papenfuehrer in Rome.

      Prick Warren, the leader of a very devious cult of fundamentalists here in the USA went to Uganda to confer with President Musaveni, a rabid Muslim, while Obama was campaigning for election as President of our country. The details of his “schmoozing” with President Musaveni and his anti-homosexual comments were captured on video tape.

      If you have been following Queerty and other gay sites on the Internet, then you have to be aware of the legislation he was proposing for all homosexuals in that country which flirted with Genocide. And just in case you are not aware of it, Genocide is alive and well in the modern world. A quick Google will provide you with a wealth of horror stories that have occurred in various backwater countries over the past 25 years.

      Muslims are protesting in the host countries that they have immigrated to that their religion and beliefs are not being shown any respect. Denmark was recently the target of such demonstrations which resulted in the burning and destruction of several buildings.

      Now, I would like to ask the question;

      How much respect are the Muslims showing us?

      Dec 12, 2009 at 9:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles Merrill
      Charles Merrill

      Muslim’s must be stopped. They are out to take over the world and with the help of political correctness are succeeding. Islam is against democracy, against formation of political parties, and supports traditional theocratic rulers.

      Read the Koran and Hadith and realize how this religion incites to hatred and violence against non-Muslims, and discrimination against women and gays they would classify it as an extremist ideology, as politically incorrect and demand banning it like all extremist organizations.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 10:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dvd
      dvd

      Well put, Patrick (post 43)
      “In other words, I fully support efforts to thwart the spread of religious fundamentalism. It’s not racist. It’s not misguided. It’s enlightened self-interest of all people who cherish diversity, freedom and life.”

      Food for thought…

      What would happen if thousands of gay people immigrated to a muslim country, and put up rainbow flags everywhere and opened gay bars/cafes. Would they be welcomed, or would they be rounded up and arrested, and likely deported, if they even made it out alive?

      Dec 12, 2009 at 10:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      @schlukitz, I will get back to you, need to catch sleep, its a long post :)
      @charles Merrill, people are so panicked about it. I have muslim coworkers, not one trace of any extremism is there to be found with them, not one. People gotta stop scaring themselves, get to look at real facts, too, not only the real bad stuff only. My coworkers are against any extremism as well, majority of Dutch muslims are, one-third of muslims dont practize it at all anymore, and mosque visits here are even lower than people who attend churches! The muslims here secularize. We also have fundies, but they are a small minority within the muslim minority. We have helpgroups and homes for gay muslims etc. You cant just generally claim all muslims are radical or fundamentalist or wanna take over the world. Then you’d have to say the same about Christinaity and we all know that isnt the case either. Give me a modern muslim anytime over a fundi christian lol. People are scared, and I am at times as well, because its all so knew and unknown, but you gotta educate yourself too on the real facts, not just what the media shows and not only the bad stuff that happens. As a European, when I look at the US, I would be way more afraid to live there due to the power of the fundementalist christians, it truly is scary to me, way more than any muslim here. Well, its an interesting topic anyway.

      Dec 12, 2009 at 10:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • uffda
      uffda

      It does make one wonder how the construction of a new cathedral with cross-topped spires would go over in, say, Riyadh. Islam is no friend to gays, but neither is Catholicism nor some sects of Judaism, not to mention most Hindus.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 12:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AL
      AL

      Quote from Mark #33:” One hundred years ago, WASP Americans were saying the same sort of things about Jews and Catholic immigrants.”

      How can you even compare the two? Early immigrants did exactly what immigrants are supposed to do: ASSIMILATE. Obviously, the WASP’s intolerance towards Jews, Catholics, or any other early immigrants was clearly wrong. Meanwhile, many Muslims in Europe are dead set against embracing the Western ways. So, concerns over Islamic domination in Europe are quite legitimate.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 1:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tcgraz
      tcgraz

      @schlukitz

      “A quick Google will provide you with a wealth of horror stories that have occurred in various backwater countries over the past 25 years.”

      then you say:

      “How much respect are the Muslims showing us?”

      As much as you are, generally speaking. An even quicker google search would highlight the west’s manifold abuses, but they aren’t “backwater” countries. Who’s leading who? Or are we just really holding hands? Tit for tat stats politicians and preachers, like yourself, weild to the crowd in hopes of a wink.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 1:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • pool
      pool

      What’s really ironic is that it wasn’t a holy crusade like during the middle ages , but a rather secular capitalist system which ushered in a muslim european population.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 1:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tdww
      Tdww

      As someone who lives in a predominantly Muslim part of London, I can honestly say that Lucas is talking out of his arse. The problem with this kind of opinion is that it is rarely backed up with any kind of evidence. Yes, man Muslims oppose homosexuality but many European muslims are fairly moderate on this issue and no worse than Christians and Jews who mostly deplore homosexuality. As for the “Islamification” of Europe, this is the same language used by the far right in Europe, the same folk who enjoy nail-bombing gay bars and who, given half the chance, would gladly round up all of the gays and throw us into the Atlantic. Europe’s identity (as if there ever was such a thing) is not under threat. There have always been Muslims in Europe and there have always been bigoted, myopic knobheads like Lucas who just don’t really know anything. And please don’t confuse his articulacy with intelligence.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 4:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Uppity1
      Uppity1

      Thanks Michael Lucas. To those who oppose him, why not go to Iran or Saudi Arabia and try kissing a guy in the middle of the street. How will that go down? Just move there for a while and see how you like being a gay man in that environment!

      Dec 13, 2009 at 4:20 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tdww
      Tdww

      Yes, Uppity, indeed. I can imagine that you would get a similar response in parts of the Bible Belt. However, you don’t seem to understand the point here: Lucas is condemning Muslims in Europe, he’s not talking about Saudi Arabia or Iran. It is the Muslims in Europe who are having a similar experience to your hypothetical gay man in Iran.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 4:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hephaestion
      hephaestion

      XAK, Moscow hosted the Eurovision Song Contest this year. All of Russia west of the Urals is considered Europe; East of the Urals is considered Asia. Most Russians reside in the European part of Russia.
      And a few hundred years ago Russia was more gay-friendly than western Europe. In fact it was contact with western European Christians that made it turn homophobic. Just like Africa was changed from gay-friendly to anti-gay by contact with Christian missionaries. And Christian missionaries are STILL working to increase anti-gay hatred in places like Uganda, Nigeria, Russia, etc.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 8:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Paul
      Paul

      Men should not get plastic surgery. I’m just sayin…

      Dec 13, 2009 at 9:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      “And please don’t confuse his articulacy with intelligence.”

      That’s the problem here. Pretty boy writes in fairly coherent sentence and paragraph structure, and people call him a genius. Soft bigotry of low expectations, maybe?

      Dec 13, 2009 at 10:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffrey
      Jeffrey

      I agree with Lucas 100%. The Islamo-fascist fundamentalists must not be allowed to advance farther in their attempt to drag Western civilization back 1000 years.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 11:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark
      Mark

      Hmmm??? So, who has been behind the anti-gay hate in the United States? Who champions the repeal of gay rights? Who led the fight for Prop 8 in California?

      When we read about the vicious homophobic attacks in the U.S and Europe, who are the attackers? Who killed Lawrence King? Who killed Marcus Sandy? Who Killed Teena Brandon? Who bashed they young UK police trainee?

      Dec 13, 2009 at 11:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hardmannyc
      hardmannyc

      I think the only reason they’re cracking down on minaurets and not mosques is because of those damned annoying five-a-day calls to prayer. Nothing more than that.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 12:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kieren
      Kieren

      @ Same Crap – I have certainly never called Lucas a genius and find many of his positions (usually within the context of Israel and Palestine, his other pet peeve) to be flawed at best (I believe both sides have things to answer for re: Israeli/Palestinian conflict). I also did a quick search of the comments for this story and not a single person called Lucas a genius. The only ‘genius’ reference was yours. Why do you make things up? (Please, for once in your life, answer a question directly.)

      I also find it quite frustrating that some people have decided that in order to downplay Muslim homophobia, they reference Christian homophobia. What? That makes no sense. Bad behavior is bad behavior. I don’t care who does it … I will speak out against it, Church or Mosque. Why will you guys only chime in against Christian abuses, but get all politically correct when it comes to Muslims?

      But it goes beyond homophobia. It goes to the heart of being a free citizen.

      When Christians behave badly, most of us are not afraid to criticize/challenge them for their behavior. If I were to say something offensive about Jesus (a la DH Lawrence’s ‘The Escaped Cock’ where Jesus rises from the dead and has sex with a pagan priestess) I would be challenged. I would piss someone off. I may even be knocked off by one of the – to coin Same Crap’s expression – Christian ‘wingnuts.’

      Were I to do the exact same thing about Mohamed, I would not have to fear a couple wingnuts, but I would have to fear hundreds of thousands of them. THAT’s the difference. There is a very radical, and very real, and very aggressive element within the Muslim faith that is hellbent on taking away the rights of anyone who is not another radicalized Muslim. Cover your women. Kill your gays.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 12:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      Muhammad is a paedophile who had sex with a nine year old girl (Ayesha).

      Now let’s see if some Muslims hunt me down threaten kill me. I’ll let you know if make it to tomorrow.

      Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 12:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      Oh, lest there is any ambiguity, I was referring to the prophet Muhammad above, not the 10 million other ones.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 12:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dmitriy
      Dmitriy

      Oh wow here we go again:
      Like usual the far left homos will pretend that “fundamentalist Muslims” don’t populate mainstream Islamic communities.

      After all Muslim countries are great with their treatment of gays its clearly just a coincidence that maybe 3 or 4 Muslims countries have lifted their sodomy laws; their religion doesn’t really lead them to imprison us sometimes for life or to execute us.

      I think I’ll be leaving libtard fantasy land now.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 12:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kieren
      Kieren

      Ah yes. Same Crap couldn’t or wouldn’t answer yet another direct question. Then he posts a ‘disparaging’ remark about Mohamed on a gay website, using a nickname, with no reference to his real identity and location and says ‘let’s see if some Muslims hunt me down threaten kill me.’ And what’s the point you are making? That on a site not known for attracting a Muslim crowd, where you write anonymously, you are safe.

      You failed to make a real point, and you know it. Seems to be the way you operate on this forum. Try this: Write a book about Mohamed the paedophile, using your real name. Publish it (self publish it on LuLu if you must) and advertise it somewhere it will catch the eye of the Muslim community. Then your point will have been made.

      Oh wait. Silly me. A Dutch cartoonist did drew a picture of Mohamed. He’s dead now. I guess the facts are an inconvenience to the self proclaimed human secularist on the site.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 12:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • delicto
      delicto

      All this hot talk of muslims and micahel lucas….I’m turned on lol

      Dec 13, 2009 at 12:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tdww
      tdww

      SameCrap, yes Muhammad did marry a young girls but he had many wives and early sources indicate that he didn’t have sex with all of them. Also, getting married at a young age in the 6th century was not an unusual thing and certainly didn’t constitute ‘paedophilia’. This is a modern term and can’t be easily applied to sexual relations in the ancient world without being slightly anachronistic.

      Surely the problem here is conservative religion in general? Perhaps we should be making the distinction. There are gay Muslim groups which are becoming quite large an vocal, surely we don’t wish to condemn their Islamic faith?

      Dec 13, 2009 at 12:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John from  England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
      John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)

      @ Tdww

      I’m obv from the UK as well and our situation is MUCH more different-in the cities.

      It’s weird in America, although it’s a new country and the whole concept was about immigrants fleeing religous persecution to come to America because they were too puritanical.

      So it’s very ironic but not surprising that a few centuries later they do the same thing to others that happened to their ancestors when they came to create America.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 12:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John from  England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
      John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)

      @ Tdww

      Yes the problem is conservative religion in general. Sigh.

      People are dumb. Desperate and very easily influenced.

      The Christians are doing a lot of recruiting were I live in Kent and in London I know the Evangelicals AND the Muslims are targetting their various sectors of the community to join their flock.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 1:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • delicto
      delicto

      some of the puritans didnt exactly flee a hostile enviro, they thought europe was too secular and wanted to create their heaven on earth..yes we’re still young…so is england, governmentally..of course like every other country, jesus….

      Dec 13, 2009 at 1:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • delicto
      delicto

      actually most, its really misinformation to say puritans fled european oppresion.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 1:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John from  England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
      John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)

      @ delicto

      Don’t blame ME. Blame the historians. And many who are American.

      Get that book out and say that people actually just came to America because they felt like it and didn’t care that the Native Americans owned the land, they wanted what they wanted.

      Believe me, I trust your story more then the poor oh me stories of fleeing persecution, y’know?

      Persecution, wow, that’s what is happening to many people gay, christian, black OR just different in so many countries.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 1:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John from  England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
      John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)

      Governmentally England is NEW.

      Okay, the Greeks are one up when it comes to democracy since they invented but as a society…culture…people….England is only older then America because we count America as exsiting when those with pale skins arrived to the Americas…

      Dec 13, 2009 at 1:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • amazingpenis
      amazingpenis

      Islam *IS* a violent religion which is at odds with western values. Any religion in which the scholars call for the death of those who publicly oppose it is a TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE influence. I don’t know why we think islam is such a fragile, delicate thing and we must all treat it so carefully.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 1:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 156 · Uppity1

      To those who oppose him, why not go to Iran or Saudi Arabia and try kissing a guy in the middle of the street.

      That is a Godwin’s Law statement. It effectively kills all further discourse on the subject.

      It appears that this was your intent, was it not?

      Dec 13, 2009 at 3:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 171 · John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s)

      So it’s very ironic but not surprising that a few centuries later they do the same thing to others that happened to their ancestors when they came to create America.

      Ironic indeed, but not so surprising.

      Someone once said “There are none so oppressive as those who have themselves been the oppressors.”

      This is readily observed in a child who has been abused or beaten by his parents. Very often, the abused child, grows up to become a child-beater himself.

      Left untreated, this vicious cycle is perpetuated over an over.

      All through history, religions have taken the liberty of being abusers and beaters and no one has opposed them.

      Perhaps the time has arrived for these abusers and beaters of humanity to seek some treatment?

      I know. Wishful thinking.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 3:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John from  England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
      John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)

      @ schlukitz

      “Someone once said “There are none so oppressive as those who have themselves been the oppressors.”

      This is readily observed in a child who has been abused or beaten by his parents. Very often, the abused child, grows up to become a child-beater himself.

      Left untreated, this vicious cycle is perpetuated over an over.”

      Sigh but true.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 3:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      It’s a cold, rainy and dreary-looking day here in New York City, John from England. The kind of day that makes me wish I had a real, honest-to-goodness, wood-burning fireplace here instead of a fake electric one, to curl up in a wing-back chair in front of and read a good book. :)

      Guess I shouldn’t be complaining, however. I would much prefer rain to all of the snow they have gotten in the mid-western part of the country. Snow-shoveling was never one of my pave pastimes. That’s why I retired to Florida. ;P

      What’s the weather like on your side of the pond?

      Dec 13, 2009 at 4:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gabriel
      Gabriel

      “No. 171 · John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s)

      So it’s very ironic but not surprising that a few centuries later they do the same thing to others that happened to their ancestors when they came to create America.”

      Europeans voted to ban minarets, not Americans. The government hasn’t interfered in how Muslims practice their faith here, unlike Europe.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 5:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mikeandrewsdantescove
      mikeandrewsdantescove

      Michael’s great at marketing his company.

      Mike
      Sex
      http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=302835391&s=143441

      Dec 13, 2009 at 5:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Craig
      Craig

      I am disgusted by the level of Islamophobia in this discussion thread.

      This narrow-sighted hatred is exactly the same kind of divisive reasoning that had people in the LGBT community decrying the African-African community for the passage of Prop 8. Instead of always pointing the fingers at some other oppressed group in the hope that they will take the focus of hatred off of us for a bit, we should be fostering solidarity between queers, Muslims, African Africans and any other oppressed groups.

      And this whole notion of Islam being a religion of violence is just simply incorrect. Some of best queer activists that I know are Muslims and they would be horrified if they read the level of derision Islam is receiving in this thread.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 5:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Oh Boy
      Oh Boy

      Though the guy is an egomaniac douche…I agree with him.

      Can you build an LGBT Center in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, or any other Arab nation for that matter? Or a Catholic or Baptist Church for that matter? Or can women hold the same rights as men?

      Why do we expect one part of the world to allow freedom and tolerance and not expect the same thing from another part of the world?

      And then those from the intolerant parts of the world like Arab countries want to go to Europe and America and impose their beliefs on everyone else and not give one damn about assimilating. Its like, why did they leave in the first place?

      These PC crazed, bleeding liberals with all their stupid Western “white man” guilt need to snap the hell out of it. And quick.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 6:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BOB
      BOB

      AT LEAST HE’s HONEST!

      The thing the I admire about Michael Lucas is that he is honest, he speaks his mind and doesn’t apologize for calling out obvious issues that everyone else is too fearful to say, maybe behind someone’s back, but never in public.

      I may not always agree with you Michael Lucas, but I do admire you.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 6:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 184 · Craig

      Some of best queer activists that I know are Muslims

      Um..no names seem to come to mind.

      Care to enlighten us?

      Dec 13, 2009 at 7:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ron
      Ron

      We in Europe have more to fear from Christians than Muslims.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 8:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • takeitandbakeit
      takeitandbakeit

      If Maggie were muslim she wouldn’t be so visible, just a point on why Islam could be a good thing in certain circumstances…kidding/oh my god/lighten up.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 9:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • HellIsWaiting
      HellIsWaiting

      @Craig. Listen to OH BOY. Answer Schlukitz’s question.

      Muslims are NOT an oppressed group; they are an oppressive group. Blacks, gays, yes. The Netherlands will be 50% muslim in just 5 years, by some accounts; raped of its historical identity.

      What a fool you are. I recommend you purchase an airline ticket to Mecca. Try to setup a queer rights org or a Christian place of worship – then get back with us. Funny how our hearts bleed to accommodate faith followers of a religion, by its own teaching, that seeks to destroy the infidels (that would be you, Nancy Boy) – in our own homelands – whereas non-Muslims are prohibited from even setting foot in their places in the world.

      So I say let’s make tolerance a TWO WAY STREET. BAN all muslim immigration, building of their structures, the horrid burqa, and that god-awful call to prayer noise until THEY EMBRACE AND PERMIT Christ-loving Christians and Queers into their own god damn countries. Until then, FUCK’EM. They don’t exactly have a good track record. And those few bad apples have spoiled the whole barrel. That’s how it fucking works.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 9:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • takeitandbakeit
      takeitandbakeit

      @ helliswaiting

      call me what you will, but you are the worst kind of person.

      (stop with the caps, your breath stinks)

      Dec 13, 2009 at 9:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles Merrill
      Charles Merrill

      #150 Wen. I have no doubt that your associate passes as a gentle peaceful Muslim. So did these American men recently arrested in Pakistan for trying to join up with Al Qaeda. Islamic petrodollars build Mosques in America that are training grounds for terrorists in the name of Allah.
      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/11/AR2009121101337.html

      Dec 13, 2009 at 9:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • HellIsWaiting
      HellIsWaiting

      @take it and shove it…

      please, please… no compliments… you’ll cause me to urinate on myself, if you get me excited like that.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 10:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TIm Hutton
      TIm Hutton

      Who cares what this plastic-lipped moron has to say? And Russia is not Europe. Sorry.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 10:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      someone said it above, and it needs repeating:

      ISLAM IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THE WESTERN WORLD!

      again, it is not the intent for muslims to move to the west, and assimilate to fit in to our advanced and western world. the extremists want to kill us. believe them when they say it, because they mean it and prove it often! and the “modern” muslims want to adopt sharia law for their own communities within our systems of government and law until they can gain a majority and overthrow our forms of government. and that is both terrifying and fucking insane! WAKE UP!

      the politically correct nonsense must end. the very people who are arguing for us to respect islam and accusing us of being ignorant and bigoted, will be among the very first killed by an islamic government. under sharia law, which they would have you live under, you should be killed:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL_zP2pHp3w&feature=related

      the vote in switzerland isn’t JUST about minarets. because that isn’t all the muslim communities in europe and north america want. they have told us, and we should believe them, that they intend to destroy us and our civilization. by killing us, or by subjugating us.

      again, i THANK GOD that the swiss did what they did. that lucas and anyone else is speaking out. i pray that the decision is upheld. and i pray that this marks a TRUE and AGRESSIVE beginning to stopping the advance of islam and sharia law in the west.

      sharia law is evil. it is the law of islam. and the great muslim plan is for US to live under sharia law. here are some things you should know about it:

      10. Islam commands that drinkers and gamblers should be whipped. 9. Islam allows husbands to hit their wives even if the husbands merely fear highhandedness in their wives. 8. Islam allows an injured plaintiff to exact legal revenge—physical eye for physical eye. 7. Islam commands that a male and female thief must have a hand cut off. 6. Islam commands that Highway robbers should be crucified or mutilated. 5. Islam commands that homosexuals must be executed. 4. Islam orders unmarried fornicators to be whipped and adulterers to be stoned to death. 3. Islam orders death for Muslim and possible death for non—Muslim critics of Muhammad and the Quran and even sharia itself. 2. Islam orders apostates to be killed. 1. Islam commands offensive and aggressive and unjust jihad.

      http://www.newswithviews.com/Roth/laurie47.htm

      “…France and other countries in Europe, along with chunks of Canada are already caving in to the campaigning and pressure by many Muslims to have Sharia law court representation, thus the split personality and conflict within several cultures now.”

      do muslims REALLY want US to live with sharia law? again, FUCKING LISTEN TO THEM! they’ve shared their plan with us:

      ‘We want to offer sharia law to Britain’
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576066/We-want-to-offer-sharia-law-to-Britain.html

      PEOPLE, PLEASE WAKE UP. BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE. WE AREN’T BEING CLOSED-MINDED. WE AREN’T BEING BIGOTS. WE’VE LISTENED TO THE MUSLIMS ABOUT THEIR PLAN FOR US. AND WE VALUE WESTERN CIVILIZATION, OUR FREEDOMS, AND ADVANCEMENTS WHILE RECOGNIZING OUR SHORTCOMINGS. JOIN US! BEFORE THEY KILL YOU TOO.

      http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Persecution_of_non-Muslims

      Dec 13, 2009 at 10:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      “According to Islamic laws, non-Muslims in Islamic Lands should be subdued and be treated like Dhimmis, or second class citizens. They should be coerced and intimidated to convert to Islam, through special humiliating taxes like Jizya imposed on them. This has been happening in the Islamic World since the last 1400 years. While Muslims demand equal rights in non-Muslim countries, non-Muslims are systematically persecuted, terrorized and ethnically cleansed from Islamic Lands. With the recent rise of Muslim populations in the traditionally Christian/Secular West, also comes the noticeable rise of Islamic violence and terrorist activities aimed towards the non-Muslims.

      This is a page containing news about historic and modern day persecution of non-Muslims in the East and in the West.”

      http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Persecution_of_non-Muslims

      Dec 13, 2009 at 10:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      more absolutely FANTASTIC stuff from “we want to bring sharia law to britain.” i don’t know about you, but i can’t fucking wait! it sounds awesome.

      “Dr Hasan is open in supporting the severe punishments meted out in countries where sharia law governs the country.

      “Even though cutting off the hands and feet, or flogging the drunkard and fornicator, seem to be very abhorrent, once they are implemented, they become a deterrent for the whole society.

      “This is why in Saudi Arabia, for example, where these measures are implemented, the crime rate is very, very, low,” he told The Sunday Telegraph”

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576066/We-want-to-offer-sharia-law-to-Britain.html

      Dec 13, 2009 at 10:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tom
      Tom

      If you wanna live a muslim country? then go and live there. Just try to build a Christian church in Iran or Saudi Arabia and see what you’ll ger. By the way according to a Euronews poll majority of Europeans support citizens of Switzerland.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 4:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      Do people here have any idea how many Americans want the bible to be the law of the land? And in fact, in part it already is in the USA. Look at how you gay people are treated, you dont even have basic federal anti-discrimination laws, then the christian nutballs can and do vote to take your marriage rights away, explain how is that not similar to sharia? @Helliswaiting, it’s not true what youre saying about the Netherlands, its dempgraphically and geographically impossible for muslims here to ever become a majority. I wont bore you with the facts as to why that is, but you are proof, like many others on this topic, youre slanted and biased and dont talk facts, but fear and prejudice. And guess what. Thats how people in the US talk about gays and lesbians. You do exactly the same. Thats why you hardly have decent equal rights. And you can wait for probably 20 more years if not longer, to get a basic equal treatment in every single state, hell, if it were for the many christians you have in your country, you will never get them at all.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 4:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      ANY GAY PERSON WHO DISAGREES WITH LUCAS NEEDS TO HAVE THEIR GAY CARD REVOKED. WTF?? posters are defending these subhuman islamic scumbags? They hate us with every fiber of their being.
      It is written into shaira law that we need to be killed. Want some fun facts about their treatment of the Gays??:

      > This is the “religion” which tortured two teenage boys for two years in an Iranian prison with cycles of lashes. They were sentenced to 200 lashes for being Gay. The human body can only endure about 30 because after 20 the flesh and muscle starts to be ripped from the body. So basically these kids were tortured for two years. After their last torture, suddenly “new charges” were disovered alleging they molested another teen. They were sentenced to death. They were driven to a public square where a mob of thousands were cheering the killing of these teens. They were placed on a flat bed truck, with nooses on their necks. Had their blindfolds taken off so they could see each other and the mob as the truck slowly drove forward. Thus ensuring a slow tortuorous death by strangulation, all while thousands cheered.

      > In Iraq Gays are routinely rounded up and tortured, fun stuff like drilling directley into the bones of the Gays after hours of this “religous services” they are decapitated.

      > Islamic law dictates death for any homosexual act.

      ARE YOU GUYS WHO DEFEND THIS RELIGION FUCKING KIDDING???? Michael Lucas may not be everyones favorite person, but he has a platform and has the balls to speak the truth about these subhuman scum who would not hesitate to tortue and kill every single person who has posted on this thread……….

      Dec 14, 2009 at 9:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      @terwill, you will find not ONE commenter in this thread who is for killing gays, not by any religion. But what you people so willingly and ignorantly ‘forget’ is that not every muslim is an extremist, wants to kill other people, is a fundamentalist etc. Noone condones those killings, not even many muslims themselves. There is so much ignorance in this thread about muslims.
      As one poster here said, the distinction needs to be made between fundamentalists and non-fundamentalist muslims, like with christians, jews etc. But if people cant even make that factual distinction, then discussing about it is really useless.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 9:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • KinkyKamikaze
      KinkyKamikaze

      Same Crap
      I just want to say, that you are awesome. Thats how I feel about living in Sweden. Though leaving after graduation.
      That being said I agree that Islam is not compatible with the western world.

      Tom
      You can actually build churches in Iran, in fact there ARE churches in Iran, also jewish temples. You can EVEN purchase wed wine (even though liquor in general is banned).

      Dec 14, 2009 at 10:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • talaylee
      talaylee

      compatible with the western world?

      That statement thrown around is chock full of implications…You guys really are that ethnocentric?

      You fell for the Bush and co. “lets group em in and hate” trap.

      Please dont reply. PLease dont!

      Dec 14, 2009 at 11:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • talaylee
      talaylee

      And Terrwill, you may have your fans here but I cant stand the way you speak and think…its all too overwhelming….go play your happy hardcore techno records then od on exctasy. ok?

      fucking a !

      Dec 14, 2009 at 11:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Attmay
      Attmay

      @203 Taylalee the Dhimmi:

      Bush was the one who fell for the “Islam is a religion of peace” crap and spouted it off after 9/11. The trouble is, it’s not fucking true.

      Terrwill is right, and so is Michael Lucas. Islam is evil. And trying to counter it by listing Christianity’s evil actions does not excuse Islam’s evil actions. Any gay man or woman who is not “Islamophobic” has their head up their ass. Maybe the KKK should have tried to call themselves a religion to get tax exempt status, and so that people would say we should respect and tolerate their religious beliefs that call for lynching black people. If the majority of Muslims were white Southerners you’d have no problem condemning them.

      The rise in gay bashing in Europe is not being committed by Lutherans, Episcopalians, or Jews (who are also on the receiving end of Islam’s evil).

      Gays need to shed the PC fantasy that all cultures are equal and that we have no right to judge barbarian behavior by foreign cultures (while they’re sure as hell judging us). Western Civilization IS superior to barbarian savagery. It is the West where the gay rights movement was born. It is the West where the gays can walk in the street freely. It is the West where gays can express love for one another without prosecution. It is the West where gays can (in some places) be joined together in marriage. It is the West that values freedom over slavery and the individual over the collective. And it was the West where the Enlightenment, which made all of that possible, happened.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 12:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charlie
      Charlie

      Islam is a culture killer, plain and simple and the Swiss and every other country have the right to maintain their culture.

      Look at the world today and mourn the cultures that have been lost to Islam

      an example, well they are too numerous. And they begin from the very first wars that Mohammad led. The cultures of the Pharoahs – gone, the culture of Indonesia – gone. the cultures of all of arabia – gone – in there place Islam, and islam will not stop until it is the only culture in the world.

      and for all you who think we have to be open minded and accepting of Islam – how many christian churches do you suppose their are in Saudi Arabia? How many jewish Synagogues. Islam is always first to play the tolerance card, but they have none. Remember when are soldiers were in Kuwait, waiting to liberate kuwait from Iraq, and they couldn’t even read their Bibles. “You can die for us —but”

      And no I am not a redneck christian, or jew

      religion – all of it — is stupid, just that Islam is stupiderererererest

      Grow up, take responsibility for your own life and actions, and stop relying on Daddy God.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 12:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kieren
      Kieren

      Is this world so black and white for so many of you (and I do mean both sides of this debate)?

      To act as if Muslims are like any other minority group who should be defended against any criticism is, well, silly. All religion should be held under a microscope at all times and all abuses should be brought out into the light. Too many people go into instance defense mode when they feel any minority is being criticized … real issues (such as Sharia Law, homophobia, and the burqa) cannot be properly discussed when the word bigot and Nazi are so freely thrown around. Even moderate Muslims in the world are, in some ways, part of the problem when they say nothing; they need to come out strong against their radicalized brethren; sadly they have not. You can see huge demonstrations in the streets of Iran against America (even though there is a very strong pro-American element within Iran) yet in the west, where are the marches BY MUSLIMS denouncing the violence, Sharia Law or the Burqa?

      Of course, the argument becomes much harder to make in light of some of the venomous anger some of the commentators who are on a similar side of the argument have made. Not all Muslims are scumbags. No, neither Sweden nor Denmark will become ‘Muslim states’ in 5 years (these were actually statements made by neo-con Political parties looking to gain support … this information is not based on serious study or research). I am certainly not asking Muslims be rounded up and placed in internment camps (as happened to the Japanese here in Canada – yes THAT Canada!).

      The argument against a large segment of the Muslim faith can be made without reverting to name calling ( like ‘scumbags’). There are scumbag Christains, lest we forget (like a Mr. Warren!).

      I am saying that the Muslim faith deserves the same level of criticism that we’ve given the Christian faith. I am also saying that if you are a radical Muslim who would threaten someone’s life because they wrote a book or drew a picture, then leave. You are not welcome in the West. I would also say the same to proponents of Sharia Law. Practice your backwards ways in Saudi Arabia. Politicians should actually pass bills outlawing both Sharia Law and the Burqa in the West. Women can be freed from much of the bondage they currently face within the extreme elements of the community and will have some legal recourse should Sharia be forced upon them. Most moderate, and certainly all liberal Muslims should have no problem with this – in Toronto we had one of the few Muslim protests, lead by women rights activists, fighting for a banning of the burqa. This isn’t just an ‘us against them’ mentality. It’s about basic human rights.

      Again, I put the rights to free speech and the rights of women and gay for equal treatment, above the rights of any religious group.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 12:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      No. 204 · talaylee: Please feel free to take your fat ass and leave this country, make youself at home at one of these facist countries and then loudly declare “I am Gay” and see what happens. I am soooo sorry you “can’t stand the way I think and speak”, thats because I refuse to attempt to “find common ground” or “start a dialouge” with those who hate us with every fiber of their body and wish nothing but death and misery for our community. Go live under shiara law, tell us from the grave how much you like it …….I am sure you would have been a fan of the nazis in the 1930’s in Germany also………..

      Dec 14, 2009 at 3:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      PLEASE stop accusing us of being ignorant or bigoted. i can only speak for myself, but this IS a black and white issue. no grey. grey will get you killed or subjugated. over-run by muslims who have NO respect, absolutely NO respect, for you, your rights, your traditions, your religion (or the right to have no religion), or your sexuality. the nonsense must stop.

      you say we are bigots and racists. that we’re islamophobes. that we’re making stuff up. NO. we’re paying attention to what is REALLY happening in the world. but, we will not buy into the knee-jerk reaction of the left to defend anyone at all cost.

      please, if you think this is an over-reaction, or we’re just basing this on bias, stop for a moment to actually read the information above. or watch the videos. that isn’t blind and ignorant bias. it is real life. and you have not even tried to offer any response to it. you provide anecdotal data. you provide name-calling. but you have no response to the TRUTH. you just skip it to offer your apparently-more important opinion.
      but, you need to pay attention. because we’re not going away. so, wake up, or shut up with your naive and silly reaction to facts and truth.

      “But Sharia is not just making inroads in Pakistan but actually creeping in the West – particularly in Europe.

      One area especially touched by this phenomenon is the judicial system in Europe. Two recent cases in Italy and France are particularly troublesome. First, in Italy, three members of a Brescia-based Maghrebi family (father, mother and eldest son) were accused of beating up and sequestering their daughter/sister Fatima because she wanted to live a “Western” life.

      In the first trial, the three were sentenced for sequestration and bad treatment. The court acknowledged that the teenager was “brutally beaten up” for having “dated” a non-Muslim and in general for “living a life not conforming with the culture” of her family. But on appeal, the family was acquitted because the court deemed that the young woman was beaten up for “her own good.” The Bologna public prosecutor’s office then disputed the acquittal of the three accused parties, but the Italian Supreme Court of Cassation dismissed it and ruled in favor of the charged parties.”

      http://www.hudsonny.org/2009/03/sharias-inroads-in-europe-italian-court-beaten-up-for-her-own-good.php

      Dec 14, 2009 at 3:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Drake
      Drake

      Michael Lucas has called himself an atheist on many occasions. Also, he is not circumcised. By what definition is he really Jewish?

      Dec 14, 2009 at 4:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kieren
      Kieren

      @Roger – Wow, you are just as bad as the knee-jerk liberals on this board. Read what I have been posting and you’d see we are on the same side. All I am asking for is a toning down of hyperbole as, even without making stuff up, there is very good reason to be vigilant and aware of what the Muslim faith means in the West, from Sharia to the Burqa to terrorism to the chilling effects on free speech. These are realities.

      But when someone spews an out and out lie that two countries in Europe will be Muslim nations in 5 years, that needs to be attacked just as vehemently because it is an out and out lie. That particular ‘opinion’ came from a national Danish party that is akin to the neo-Nazis who also bully, beat and murder gays. I just think it is prudent politics to rely on facts and not align ourselves with another evil force in the world. The stories you posted above, for example, are prime examples of why we need to lay a very critical eye on every religion, and that especially applies to the Muslim faith. It is these stories that buttress an argument for a hard look at the Muslim faith. Hyperbole is, therefore, not required.

      I worry that this debate is lost in rhetoric when people rely on name calling and lies and (as you did with me) quick rebuttals that are so reactionary they miss the point that was being made. I believe the facts support my stance on the Muslim faith and discredit those who blindly follow leftist dogma. But to rely on right-wing dogma is equally as blind and limiting and I would hope you would agree with that as well.

      There are bigots and haters on both sides. This debate is not all black and white. There are very liberal Muslims out there (Irshad Manji, a lesbian, is a prime example – though there is much she and I would differ on as I find her to be somewhat knee-jerk in her liberalism as well). There are women fighting to end the burqa and the imposition of Sharia Law, and these women are Muslims. No, the issue is not as black and white as you would suggest. Otherwise these valiant women should be just as hated and despised by people like you. And I would think that upon sober reflection, you would acknowledge there are some (perhaps a small percentage, admittedly) who are deserving of our support in their fight to undo the same injustices we currently oppose in that particular faith. There-in lies the gray of which I spoke.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 4:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jonathon
      Jonathon

      Wow… what a barrage comments.

      A few thoughts:

      i) I wonder what Mr Lucas would say if these comments were made about Jews;

      ii)In a way Mr Lucas does make some very valid points;

      iii) Is Islam compatible with the West….??? For the most part I do not think so;

      iv) We do need to stop being so knee jerk liberal, love everyone in things like immigration and intergration — if you are going to move to my country you need to adapt to the ways established here over generations, no sharia law, no hiding of women, no bs. you don’t like it don’t come here. Harsh, yes but I value my way of life and I will fight to keep it such. It’s not perfect but it’s a hell of alot better than most.

      v) will the hardcore leftist professional complainers jump all over me for saying this? Definitly.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 4:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @keiran: i completely understand we’re on the same side of the bigger picture. but, i truly think this is a black and white issue. it’s why i even said i could only speak for myself, not others.
      we must help the women and the other powerless muslims who are fighting to stop sharia law. especially its encroachment on the west. but, we have to be honest that today they are powerless. and i firmly believe that our fight against those who wish to destroy us and our culture is black and white. they are powerful and insidious, are using our own system and political correctness against us.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 4:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Flex
      Flex

      Authoritarian christianists are equally disgusting humans. We should ban their synagogues of satan, and kick them around at the ballot box! They are a bigger threat to me than authoritarian Muslims!

      Dec 14, 2009 at 4:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LogicalGay
      LogicalGay

      I’m not a knee jerk liberal, or would ever consider fairness to be knee jerk, but the idea that being enraged and using that rage to process policies towards a whole group of people is anathema to a whole host of feelings in me that weren’t taught.

      Must not we behave this way towards individuals? Some commenters are demanding people to understand why it’s important to essentially mistrust a huge group of people. It’s very ironic.

      Didn’t Europe become the E.U. so technically, Russia is not a part of Europe by that criteria.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 5:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      really, do we want to live under sharia law? because that is, without a doubt, their plan.

      @logicalgay and others: you can trust whoever you’d like. but please don’t expect me and others to be sympathetic to, or respectful of, a group of people who are being led by violent extremists and by “modern” leaders who intend to replace our system of government and law with their own. they do not respect us. we absolutely are called to do the same to them. and fight them every step of the way.

      “Islamic courts meet every week in the UK to rule on divorces and financial disputes. Clare Dwyer Hogg and Jonathan Wynne-Jones report on demands by senior Muslims that sharia be given legal authority.”

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576066/We-want-to-offer-sharia-law-to-Britain.html

      “France should be seen as a cautionary tale of immigration run amok, and how quickly things get out of control. Muslim immigration to France is a post-war phenomenon for the most part: just of few decades of high immigration of a group with high fertility has put France in the unenviable position of being the European nation thought most likely to be the first to introduce sharia (Islamic) law.”

      http://www.limitstogrowth.org/WEB-text/france-immigration.html

      10. Islam commands that drinkers and gamblers should be whipped. 9. Islam allows husbands to hit their wives even if the husbands merely fear highhandedness in their wives. 8. Islam allows an injured plaintiff to exact legal revenge—physical eye for physical eye. 7. Islam commands that a male and female thief must have a hand cut off. 6. Islam commands that Highway robbers should be crucified or mutilated. 5. Islam commands that homosexuals must be executed. 4. Islam orders unmarried fornicators to be whipped and adulterers to be stoned to death. 3. Islam orders death for Muslim and possible death for non—Muslim critics of Muhammad and the Quran and even sharia itself. 2. Islam orders apostates to be killed. 1. Islam commands offensive and aggressive and unjust jihad.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 6:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      @Roger, I decided to check some of the information given through the link you posted http://www.limitstogrowth.org etc
      I took just one random example to make a point. I quote ‘Muslims in France outnumber all non-Catholics combined, including both Protestants and Jews.’

      If you Google, France and Religion, then you will find this on Wikipedia, and I already knew what the above quote says is not correct:

      ‘France is a secular country and freedom of religion is guaranteed by the constitution.[24] The population is about 51% Roman Catholic, and 31% of people are agnostics or atheists. 4% say they are Muslim, 3% say they are Protestant and 1% say they are Jewish. 10% are from other religions or do not have an opinion about religion.[25][26]ct,

      Before you believe any info you read, you need to check it. Its a lot of work, but at least you know you have the correct information.
      So, that France is going to introduce the Sharia law is also a lie. I dont know why people like to scare people with the Islam stuff, but it seems it has become a sport on the net.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 7:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @wen: thanks for the open-minded try. but sharia law is already making it’s way to france. research IS an easy thing to do. SO many more articles besides this one to post.

      http://www.homesoverseas.co.uk/news/Sharia_law_enters_France/8971-1002

      and i’m glad you don’t mind using information from wikipedia. some people who act intellectually-superior to those who oppose them tend to think that wikipedia is lazy. or inaccurate. or biased. or rife with error. but, if you love wikipedia, and it appears you do, i’m SURE you’ll love wikislam! they have a TON more information for you as you begin researching this important topic.

      http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Main_Page

      Dec 14, 2009 at 7:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @wen: here’s some more information for you related to france and it’s rapidly growing muslim community. and its impact on french culture, law, religion, finance, and governement.

      you’re welcome!

      http://www.meforum.org/337/islam-in-france-the-french-way-of-life-is-in

      “Every community has the right to uphold and protect its way of life, so long as minorities’ rights are protected as well. Not so long ago, this consideration applied primarily to colonial areas threatened by the industrial West. Arguably, it applies to Western industrial nations as well, should they be threatened by mass immigration. In the case at hand, the main point is not whether mosques may be built or if hallal food may be distributed; but whether polygamy is to be tolerated and the police to operate in Muslim neighborhoods. In other words, Islam ought to adapt to the traditional French way of life, with its emphasis on individual freedom and secularism, rather than the reverse.”

      Dec 14, 2009 at 7:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      Roger, Wen called out your making up demographic data about France from whole cloth.

      The wiki article even provides a link to actual survey when it reported those numbers.

      http://a1692.g.akamai.net/f/1692/2042/1h/medias.lemonde.fr/medias/pdf_obj/sondage030416.pdf

      Dec 14, 2009 at 7:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      On Sharia Law in Britain. The British law is above Sharia law, so muslims and sharia courts have to stick with British law. Jewish law has existed for many decades as well, doing their own mediation, also when not in conlfict legally with British law, maybe a Briton here can explain it better than me.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1031611/Sharia-law-SHOULD-used-Britain-says-UKs-judge.html

      A Sharia law such as in Iran for example, is unconstitutional in Britian, thus will never be allowed.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 7:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @wen: britain doesn’t have a written constitution. i’m confident you know that. don’t you? their constitution is unwritten. it is a collection of several documents. in the future, muslim leaders would love for sharia law and its tenets to be included. again, don’t believe me. believe them, as they’ve told us themselves. and, it’s happening.

      “ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

      The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.

      Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.

      Previously, the rulings of sharia courts in Britain could not be enforced, and depended on voluntary compliance among Muslims.

      It has now emerged that sharia courts with these powers have been set up in London, Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester with the network’s headquarters in Nuneaton, Warwickshire. Two more courts are being planned for Glasgow and Edinburgh.

      Sheikh Faiz-ul-Aqtab Siddiqi, whose Muslim Arbitration Tribunal runs the courts, said he had taken advantage of a clause in the Arbitration Act 1996.”

      http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4749183.ece

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/6334091/Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-Britain-claim.html

      http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54018

      and, a bit of information about the british constitution:

      http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/british_constitution1.htm

      Dec 14, 2009 at 7:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @samecrap: you were completely discredited for inaccurate information and reactionary name-calling DAYS ago. next.

      “As in the United States, there are no accurate population figures on religious affiliation in France, for French law prohibits a census along religious lines in almost all circumstances, even of foreigners.3 Polls and surveys do exist but vary widely in scope, methodology, and results.”

      http://www.meforum.org/337/islam-in-france-the-french-way-of-life-is-in

      Dec 14, 2009 at 7:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      i’m sure if you saw this young girl, this BABY, on the street, you would think she’s peace-loving. but, here’s the next generation:

      Dec 14, 2009 at 7:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      Same Crap, thanks, have to dust off my French lol, I will read it later on. The thing is, in France for over 50 years now, they’ve had muslim immigrants, so they had plenty of time to create a muslim party if they wanted to take over France, and if Islam really wants to take over the world. Then why doesnt France have a muslim party, why doesnt the UK have one, why dont we in Holland have one, while we have 10 other political parties, including 3 christian (from light to fundi)? We had muslims coming in for over 40 years now, then if they wanna take over, why do they vote for other secular parties, not create their own one. Or is this evidence they will do it stealthily and secretly lol (conspiracy-theorists please join) :)
      But really, then saying Islam is not only a religion, but also a political ideology, then even more, why dont they organize politically? I do understand people’s fears for Islam, but Islam is NOT that only one fundamentalist thing, out to kill every non-muslim.
      Roger, I will read your article soon, too.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 8:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      How convenient, Roger. We can never really how many Muslims there are, but take my word for it, there are a lot. Ok.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 8:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @samecrap: wen said he’d read my posts. if he had, as he said he had, he would have read that little nugget that is just FULL of information! facts can be hard. much easier, i guess, to preach about respecting people who hate us. and TRY to ridicule the people who are actually paying attention to the truth. i’ll never understand that. and it’s why the political correctness and the coddling of this religion built on violence must stop.

      the young woman in this video learned this from the koran. and from her violent leaders. she sure as fuck didn’t learn it from sesame street.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FHHZ-BOMuI&feature=related

      by the way, i’m assuming that since you’re back involved in this discussion, you’ll soon be calling someone “faggot” again. good times….

      Dec 14, 2009 at 8:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      Roger, Ive been to France many times, that is really not a country in danger of being taken over by Islam anytime soon. The highest number I could find is 10% muslims (yes, they do take polls in France, even if the government doesnt require faith to be known). Highest number of Catholics, 95%. Highest number of atheist/agnostics, 51%.
      Another thing is, why is hardly anyone here talking about the dangers of Christianity in the USA? Them keeping gays under control not wanting them to have hardly any rights, not have marriage rights, have bans on gay marriage in 30 states etc. That is way more dangerous than Islam will ever get in the USA.
      Western european countries abhor the power the christian faith has in the US and how it tramples on human rights, especially for homosexuals. It really blows me away for sure.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 8:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @wen: um, we’re not talking about that because it wasn’t the topic of michael lucas’ commentary. he was talking about the encroachment of a violent religion on switzerland. and by extrapolation, all of western society.
      it’s been said SEVERAL times in this thread, please read them if you need to catch up: we have NO problem calling out Christians and the Church when they violate human rights. or the rights of people in the cultures they aim to colonize and “save.” the history, and the scorn from the left, is WELL DOCUMENTED.
      so, why the hell do we treat this violent religion with kid gloves? it baffles me.
      again: the extremists want to kill us. and the “modern” leaders want us to live under sharia law. and people who they would KILL are defending them. stunning!

      mosques are training grounds for violent behavior:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KjfYJ4AkiY

      an added bonus in that video is that this event took place in dearborn, michigan. a suburb of detroit. i’m relatively sure that @samecrap was telling us last week about the GREAT success story of assimilation in detroit. sorry if i’m mistaking someone else’s ignorant opinion for your ignoratn opinion, @samecrap.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 8:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • romeo
      romeo

      Wen #227: Are you nuts! Christian abuses in this country are virtually all we talk about in the political threads here. This just happens to be about Islam.

      Agree with you about France, though. In Paris, the average Frenchman that I came across thought the muslims in their midst were a bunch primitive morons.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 8:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      Roger, there are many things I dont like about Islam, Im not a religious person, either, I abhor the repression of women, the Sharia and anything that goes on in most muslim countries. Im just trying to say it wont be that way in western european countries, as we are in essence democracies, all the other countries that are dominated by Islam are not (except Turkey, with 95% muslims).
      The fear that Islam will take over Europe is on many bases totally unfounded, thats what Im trying to convey, and there are a lot of lies out there about it. Then here, in Holland, muslims are discriminated against by a group of people, these muslims are just ordinary people like you and me and anyone else, and I really hate that happens here. Majority of them harm noone and then I look at the USA then see how gay people get discriminated against and I cant believe it. And many people will say really bad stuff about gays & lesbians, so you cant have your rights. There are people in the US that REALLY do believe you and other homosexuals will mean the end of US society, if you can marry, or in any other way will be regarded as equal. That is not so far from a muslim fundi, is it? Some even wanna kill you in the US if they could. I spoke to enough religious nutbags to see the seriousness of all the problems there are in the US when it comes to people hating homosexuals and based on their hate, taking *your* rights away.
      Criticizing muslims isnt ofcourse the same as discriminating against them, solely for their religious beliefs (and Im not talking about extremists here, just ordinary muslims), but wanting to treat them differently because of their beliefs IS discrimination, and thats whats happening, too. I hate it.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 8:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gabriel
      Gabriel

      For a far more intelligent and nuanced (two adjectives that seldom describe the reportage of Queerty) discussion of gays, Muslims and Europe, specifically the Netherlands, check out the December 7th issue of The New Yorker for Ian Buruma’s Letter from Amsterdam, “Parade’s End”.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 8:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      Roger ‘so, why the hell do we treat this violent religion with kid gloves? it baffles me.
      again: the extremists want to kill us. and the “modern” leaders want us to live under sharia law. and people who they would KILL are defending them. stunning!’
      See, and this is where you are wrong. No modern muslim (leader) here wants us to live under xxth century Sharia Law, noone!! Thats the myth, thats what everyone anti-Islam scares everyone with. ITS NOT TRUE!!!! But *you* (and some others) dont wanna know about that,and thats why we’ve been having this discussion for days now.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 8:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @gabriel: thanks for recommending it. i’m posting the conclusion of his letter from january, 2005 “the final cut.” it is shocking.

      “After the war, and especially since the nineteen-sixties, the Dutch prided themselves on having built an oasis of tolerance, a kind of Berkeley writ large, where people were free to do their own thing. Liberated, at last, from the strictures of religion and social conformity, the Dutch, especially in Amsterdam, frolicked in the expectation that the wider world would not disturb their perfect democracy in the polders. Now the turbulent world has come to Holland at last, crashing into an idyll that astonished the citizens of less favored nations. It’s a shame that this had to happen, but naïveté is the wrong state of mind for defending one of the oldest and most liberal democracies against those who wish to destroy it.”
      http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/01/03/050103fa_fact1?currentPage=all#Replay

      @wen: i’m worried for holland. you should be too. naivete will destroy your country. but don’t worry about mine. we’re awake. and paying attention to the intentions of extremist and “modern” muslim leaders. you should too.

      http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/2071

      the article above is stunning for several reasons. i’ll post just one:
      “A Dutch government study has concluded that a bad attitude on the part of the Dutch,who might have taken umbrage at the killing and near decapitation of Theo van Gogh by a Dutch born Muslim for ‘criticising Islam’ are the real cause behind radicalisation.”

      imagine that?! the dutch MIGHT have taken umbrage at the killing and near decapitation of Theo van Gogh?! how fucking insensitive of them!!! the muslim youths are CLEARLY victims!!!(sarcasm intended.)

      Dec 14, 2009 at 9:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      Roger, Christianity like the US has now, only maybe 5% of the Dutch have such fundamentalist Christian beliefs, and even then, the majority of them, are not that hateful towards others. The quality is different, they are much softer than in the USA. They dont put pressure on the constitution like many American zealots do for example. Here, about 50% is atheis/agnostic, the whole climate here is totally different. The muslims here, I have women cowokers, all go to University, are dressed fashionable, no headscarf, no burka, nothing, but they are muslim, thats the only thing thats different. There are the more conservative types (but not fundamentalists) that do eg wear a headscarf and have more tradiditional values, then there are the fundi’s, but they are a minority within a minority. They probably want the Sharia, but even they dont want to stone women to death or kill gay people, but do think homosexuality is a disease or some similar crap. Then there are the extremists, and they are the problem, but they are a minority, too. This group is what is feared, but is a minority within a minority (5%). Thats it.
      Gotta go.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 9:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @wen said: “No modern muslim (leader) here wants us to live under xxth century Sharia Law, noone!! Thats the myth, thats what everyone anti-Islam scares everyone with. ITS NOT TRUE!!!! But *you* (and some others) dont wanna know about that,and thats why we’ve been having this discussion for days now.”

      PAY ATTENTION! a few of us have posted several links you need to read @wen. WAKE UP! i’ll post one of them just once more for you since you’re not keeping up. you have no idea what you’re talking about. and, based on the letter @gabriel referenced, and the one i posted by the same author, you REALLY need to spend some time figuring out what the fuck is going on in your own country. um, you’re under attack. remember theo van gogh? he wasn’t killed by a girl scout.

      ‘We want to offer sharia law to Britain’

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576066/We-want-to-offer-sharia-law-to-Britain.html

      Dec 14, 2009 at 9:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @wen: you REALLY need to wake up. i’m glad those women you know appear normal. because there are NO examples of modern muslims who appear normal, who attend university, and end up being extremist terrorists:

      http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/793

      you naivete will kill you!

      Dec 14, 2009 at 9:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Oh Boy
      Oh Boy

      @Wen

      Hey Wen – no offense, but you are living on cloud nine.

      They are already afraid to put up certain operas (Germany) and run newspaper cartoons (Denmark) in Europe for fear of violence.

      Uh – newsflash – that is the taking away of freedom. The right to free speech.

      Come on. Christianity is not nearly as violent. Here in the US we are not afraid to run operas for fear of being bombed.

      Don’t be such a Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm. You know what is going on.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 9:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 217 · roger

      Wow. Thanks for the Wikislam URL. I did not know it existed. What an eye opener.

      The first think that caught my eye, as a matter of fact, was the “Persecution of homosexuals” page.

      Forget about the persecution of women and all of the other minorities.

      Islam convicts itself just with it’s evil, Sharia law against homosexuals.

      And they want this to be the law of the world?

      In a pigs ass, as my dad used to say! And while we are on the subject of pigs, someone should glue their anuses shut and make them eat ham for Christmas dinner.

      A double whammy.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 10:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @schlukitz: don’t you just LOVE that @samecrap and @wen left the conversation when they didn’t have any response to facts and truth? especially after they TRIED to mock and ridicule me.
      typical reactionary and judgemental hypocrits!

      and i’m so glad you appreciate the wikislam link. the thing i’ve appreciated most about this discussion is it has affirmed that people who think like us, and are actually paying attention to the world around us, are not alone! we MUST all stick together to defeat this subversive and violent movement.
      i’d give you my email address here, but i think you and i know that would be a HUGE mistake!!!

      Dec 14, 2009 at 10:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      Roger, I agree that it would probably be a big mistake for you to to give me your email address here.

      We get far too many scary posters like Letterman and his ilk on this site to be exposing our flanks and making ourselves vulnerable to possible harm.

      Discretion, as the old adage goes, is the better half of valor. ;)

      Queerty has clearly demonstrated it’s willingness to give the commentators on this blog wide latitude in what we say…almost to fault, I might add, as was the case with Letterman and his predecessor Yoiucanthandlethetruth. LOL

      I am all for freedom of speech, as long as it does not turn into hateful speech.

      So, as long we continue to refrain from hurling insults and names others, I see no reason whatsoever, why we cannot continue our discourse on these threads. :)

      Dec 14, 2009 at 10:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      so, no calling people faggot, bigot, racist, idiot, islamophobe, scare-monger, or hate-monger?!
      by the way, i’m in minnesota. where are you, schlukitz?

      Dec 15, 2009 at 1:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      At the moment, I am in New York City working on the family house.

      I retired to Florida back in 1993 which has been my legal residence ever since.

      Actually, the only word you listed above that I would object to being called and do refrain from calling other gays, is the faggot reference.

      As to the other terms, I do not see anything hateful about them, as they accurate describe people’s attitudes and positions.

      A person lacking brain is, in fact an idiot! Remember the village idiot? LOL

      It would be hypocritical to say that the views of Archie Bunker of All In The Family were not bigoted.

      People who run around yelling “the sky is falling, the sky is falling.” 24/7.365, when it is not, or claim that we will have a population crash if we do not keep pumping babies out in record numbers, are in fact scare-mongers

      And people who constantly lie and misrepresent the truth while they do everything in their power to take the civil-rights of LGBT people are definately hate mongers.

      So, like my grandmother used to say, if the shoe fits, wear it!

      And to those, like the Mormons who cry “unfair” when we fight back, as grandma also used to say “You made your bed. Now sleep in it. LOL

      Dec 15, 2009 at 1:30 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      @Roger ‘@wen left the conversation when they didn’t have any response to facts and truth? especially after they TRIED to mock and ridicule me.
      typical reactionary and judgemental hypocrits!’

      Have you ever heard of people needing to get to sleep? Remember I live in Europe and it was very late here already (add 6 to 9 hours +US). So, you degrade yourself to childish tactics when you dont have proper replies. Old trick.
      Your behavior/mindset in this, and this is what escapes people here, is the same as homophobes or a religious nutball that is against gays/anything-gay, gay marriage etc. Youre just as ignorant an bigoted as they are. I know, its hard to deal with a truth that isnt black-white. I have gay friends in the US and they get all my support in the bad climate for gays, you wont be one of those.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      @Roger, before you come with more insults, take the time and courage to give a reply to many of the posts by me you conveniently ignored. I have to work now, maybe be back later.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 5:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ryan
      ryan

      I’ve been reading through the comments a bit. It saddens me to see so many of my fellow gays capable of so much hate towards another group. Aren’t we all one to talk about tolerance?

      Dec 15, 2009 at 9:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • queerty.commenter.nyc
      queerty.commenter.nyc

      Michael Lucas is simply fighting fire with fire with his strong words in defense of the Swiss law about minarets.
      It is indisputable that Muslims that work for Sharia law have not been respectful of the rights of LGBT people. We must speak out against them and every other group that seeks to restrict our rights or take our life.
      That’s not to say every single self-identified Muslim is a homophobe. But it is reasonable and necessary to be intolerant of those Muslims that have no interest in tolerating us. And the same standard holds true for members of every other belief system – religious or otherwise.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 10:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 245 · ryan

      I’ve been reading through the comments a bit. It saddens me to see so many of my fellow gays capable of so much hate towards another group. Aren’t we all one to talk about tolerance?

      So, it’s only okay when other groups talk hate towards the gays?

      Dec 15, 2009 at 1:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ryan
      Ryan

      It’s never okay to fight fire with fire.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 3:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ryan
      Ryan

      Responding to hatred with more hatred doesn’t solve any problems. It just makes everyone more mad at each other.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 3:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • blbl
      blbl

      How is this worse than Queerty spewing hatred towards “undocumented immigrats” (sic)?

      Dec 15, 2009 at 3:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @ryan and anyone else who believes we should be respectful of islam, this is what we’re up against. many other examples of the ABSOLUTE hatred of islam toward the west are posted above. please check them out before you make a naive statement such as “Responding to hatred with more hatred doesn’t solve any problems. It just makes everyone more mad at each other.”

      the execution of daniel pearl. warning!

      http://www.wretch.cc/video/f0806449k&func=single&vid=5836976

      American Muslims call for Jihad and Sharia on the streets of NYC:

      http://infidelsarecool.com/2009/05/17/video-american-muslims-call-for-jihad-and-sharia-on-the-streets-of-nyc/

      “Where is the moderate Muslim outrage? answer: They agree under their breathe that the American Constitution is un-Islamic and should one day be changed to the Sharia. It will never happen of course, but this still reminds you of the enemies within our homeland.”

      Dec 15, 2009 at 3:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ryan
      Ryan

      @Roger: I honestly don’t care about your statistics. Muslim extremism is not representative of mainstream Islam. Period. And to think otherwise is closed-minded, xenophobic, racist and generally hateful.

      And seriously, folks, what happened here? We are gays. We are an oppressed group. We have no room to spew shit about other groups. It doesn’t matter if they don’t like us. Haven’t you ever heard of the Golden Rule? It applies both ways.

      Personally, I think if you think badly of other minority groups, you have no room to fight for gay rights. Because the line of closed-minded, “fact-based” thought you’re using to justify your hate is exactly the same as the closed-minded, “fact-based” thought used against the LGBT movement.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @wen: i already exposed your naivete and idiocy on this topic. several times. a few follow:

      a. you keep asking us about Christianity, in America and the world. as i’ve reminded you, this thread was in response to michael lucas’ commentary. stay on topic, please. you keep trying to change the topic, because you don’t have a leg to stand on with your weak argument and opinion.
      b. you claim that i and the people who think like me are spreading fear and lies about islam and sharia law. of course, i’ve debunked that SEVERAL fucking times in this thread since last week. see the articles above. and the one i just posted. you truly have no idea what you’re talking about.

      of course, there’s more. lots more. but, you seem more interested in anecdotal data and FEELINGS than fact and truth. well, feelings will get you killed. you need to wake up.
      when a writer from “the new yorker” calls the response of people in Holland “naive” and says it is not an appropriate reaction to an insidious movement that seeks to destroy them, you NEED to wake up. “the new yorker” is hardly fox news. or rush limbaugh.

      as i said above, you really need to figure out what is happening in your own country before you can pretend to have ANY credibility on what is happening in switzerland or anywhere else in the western world. you are clueless and naive. you’ve proven it several times. and rather than counter with fact, you tend to try to change the topic.
      and, when you were confronted with real information from me, you even tried to mock and ridicule me. you said:
      “Before you believe any info you read, you need to check it. Its a lot of work, but at least you know you have the correct information.”

      so, PLEASE don’t TRY to take the high road and pretend you are morally or intellectually superior. that I am the one who first resorted to calling you names and avoiding your posts. you look silly and it’s impossible for you to do that now.

      wake up. or your country will need rescued by outsiders AGAIN!
      i strongly recommend that you, your countrymen, and everyone in the west purchase this book:

      http://www.meforum.org/1793/while-europe-slept

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ryan
      Ryan

      From the desk of Martin Luther King Jr:

      Have we not come to such an impasse in the modern world that we must love our enemies – or else? The chain reaction of evil – hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars – must be broken, or else we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation.

      Also,

      Love is the only force capable of transforming an enemy into friend.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ryan
      Ryan

      And from the desk of Mahatma Gandhi: “Anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding.”

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @ryan: that is one of the craziest things i’ve read in days:

      facts don’t matter. statistics don’t matter. reality doesn’t matter. the truth doesn’t matter. respect people who would kill us! and who have no respect for us!

      thinking like that will make is VERY easy for extremists to kill us, and for “modern” muslims to replace our western systems with the barbaric sharia law. that is a fact. it might hurt your “feelings.” but, your feelings will get you killed.
      they are BANKING on our political correctness. and they scoff at us with each step.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576066/We-want-to-offer-sharia-law-to-Britain.html

      here’s what a “modern” muslim leader in britain says about sharia law:

      “We Want to Offer Sharia Law to Britain”

      Despite this, Dr Hasan is open in supporting the severe punishments meted out in countries where sharia law governs the country.

      “Even though cutting off the hands and feet, or flogging the drunkard and fornicator, seem to be very abhorrent, once they are implemented, they become a deterrent for the whole society.

      “This is why in Saudi Arabia, for example, where these measures are implemented, the crime rate is very, very, low,” he told The Sunday Telegraph.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @ryan: i generally agree with those quotes. on this topic, they are LAUGHABLE. wake up!

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ryan
      Ryan

      Roger, you are a very hateful person. I feel sorry for you. You provide me with one link, speaking with one leader (not representative of a larger group) and claim it represents the whole of Islam. There’s a word for that, Roger. That’s stereotyping.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      from the desk of muhammad:

      “Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: ‘Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.'”

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      from the desk of muhammad:

      “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      from the desk of muhammad:

      “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”

      “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      here’s what “the new yorker” said about your naivete @ryan:

      http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/12/07/091207fa_fact_buruma

      i suppose “the new yorker” is just hateful, too!?

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ryan
      Ryan

      Also, Roger, how do these quotes not apply?

      And even if mainstream Islam did not approveThe Bible specifically forbids homosexuality, and yet there are many Christian groups who have come out in support for LGBT rights in the past 100 years. Similarly, there ARE Islamic groups in support of gay rights. I point specifically to Al-Fatiha:

      http://www.al-fatiha.org/

      Who’s to say that there won’t be more, and opinions won’t change? An open mind and an open heart is all that’s needed to change the masses.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ryan
      Ryan

      Sorry, my statement was accidentally left unfinished. That second sentence was supposed to be “And even if mainstream Islam did not approve, that doesn’t mean they never will.” Cue the bible sentence.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @ryan: compare your quotes, although well-intentioned, to the teachings of the koran that i just posted. as you’re SURELY aware, there are MANY more violent quotes directly from muhammad that are being taught to young muslims today. the religion is built on violence. their intentions are clear. both extremists and “modern” muslims want to destroy the western world. they just want to go about it in a different way. WAKE UP!
      you can call me hateful. but i’d much prefer you call me a realist. and AWAKE to this issue. you should be the same.

      muslims don’t respect you or your life. the very idea that you’re SO adamant that we respect them is ridiculous.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ryan
      Ryan

      Again, Bible quotes say that men shouldn’t sleep with men and women should be subservient and quiet when their husband talks, but that hasn’t stopped progressive (and mainstream) thought.

      Some tasty ones:
      Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. -Leviticus 18:22 (if you recall, WBC loves this one)

      Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

      “Have you allowed all the women to live?” Moses asked them…. “Now … kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.” -Numbers 31:1-18

      If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son … Then shall his father and his mother … bring him out unto the elders of his city … And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. -Deuteronomy 21:18-21

      … all who are under the yoke of slavery … who have believing masters … must serve all the better since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. If any one teaches otherwise … he is puffed up with conceit, he knows nothing; he has a morbid craving for controversy…, which produce envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among men who are depraved in mind… -1 Timothy 6:1-5

      Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother… -Matthew 10:34-35 (this is Jesus endorsing the forcible spread of christianity)

      Last time I checked, I don’t remember most Christians owning slaves, killing their wives for adultery, or stoning their rebellious children. Similarly, with exception to some fringe groups, I don’t remember most Christians killing other people to spread the gospel. Point is: few religions follow everything by the book. What makes Islam any different?

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ryan
      Ryan

      And Roger, I am awake to the issue. I am just approaching it differently than you are.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ryan
      Ryan

      Well, anyway, I’m done arguing with you Roger. It’s clear that neither of us can do anything to convince the other side of our cause, so let’s just agree to disagree for now. I’m tired of finding quotes.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ryan
      Ryan

      But I’m going to leave with this: Islam, by your definition, is a religion that will use violence and coersion as a means to spread. Also, every religion loves a martyr, and this applies to Islam too. So by what you are indirectly proposing—which is to start sanctioning and restricting Islam—you’re creating more barriers for violent Islamic groups to break. This, in turn, feeds their cause even more and causes their fringe groups to be even more violent and dangerous.

      Why not, instead of creating the above problem, we instead educate. We show an attitude of tolerance, acceptance, and above all education. Instead of condemning them we teach them that homosexuality and Western values are acceptable. Granted, this will not convert all of them, and I am not suggesting that it will. There will always be groups that will stick to their proverbial guns and refuse to adopt new values. But I’m confident that through a tolerant, open-minded, non-authoritarian approach we can ease the cultural misalignment that the traditional Islamic community has with progressive values. It’s work before elsewhere.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @ryan: bye. and michael lucas wasn’t talking about Christianity. so, nice try. meet your friend @wen above. he had the same problem keeping focused.
      the left doesn’t waste a single opportunity to point out Christian wrongs. why is that so hard to do with a religion that is SO incompatible with our way of life? bizarre! and it will get us killed by people who hate us!

      Dec 15, 2009 at 4:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @ryan: GOOD LUCK WITH THAT! egads.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 5:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      Ryan

      Roger, you are a very hateful person. I feel sorry for you. You provide me with one link, speaking with one leader (not representative of a larger group) and claim it represents the whole of Islam. There’s a word for that, Roger. That’s stereotyping.
      .
      Excellent, you got it. Stereotyping and hatemongering. I noticed something about Queerty and I have been here for only about a week: it likes to stereotype, stigmatize and much dramatization. I dont like it.
      .
      Roger, again, find some credible sources.
      .
      Im done here too.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 5:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @wen: i’m not surprised you’re done. you have NO accurate and credible evidence about your point of view. you have FEELINGS!
      that will get you killed. good luck idiot!

      Dec 15, 2009 at 5:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @wen: because i know you’re still reading. i hope you find the koran a credible source, in addition to ALL the others i’ve posted:

      “Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace.”

      “O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding.”

      “Prophet exhort the believers to fight. If there are twenty good fighters they will defeat two hundred for they are a senseless people. They do not fight with good intentions nor for truth.”

      http://prophetofdoom.net/

      Dec 15, 2009 at 5:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 248 · Ryan

      It’s never okay to fight fire with fire.

      Says who? The fire-fighters do it all the time. And, it works!

      http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/fight-fire-with-fire.html

      Dec 15, 2009 at 5:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 252 · Ryan

      @Roger: I honestly don’t care about your statistics.

      Need more be said?

      “Don’t confuse me with the facts. I’ve already made up my mind.”

      Dec 15, 2009 at 5:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      roger, I dont wanna continue talking to you, youre way too hateful. Sorry.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 5:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @wen: your feelings have been hurt. tough. if you are going to throw out accusations and try to call people names, you’d BETTER toughen up.
      oh, and you need to get busy figuring out what is going on in holland. you’re obviously oblivious and naive.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 5:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheProfessor
      TheProfessor

      Why are we giving ANY credibility to a porn star???

      Dec 15, 2009 at 5:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      a tribute to theo van gogh. you might have heard of him @wen. then again, you seem pretty unaware about what is going on at home.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 5:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 249 · Ryan

      Responding to hatred with more hatred doesn’t solve any problems. It just makes everyone more mad at each other.>/i>

      Yeah. That was really a dumb move on Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s behalf, declaring war on the Japanese simply because they bombed Pearl Harbor.

      It just made everyone more mad at each other.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 6:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wen
      Wen

      @ Ryan
      ‘I honestly don’t care about your statistics. Muslim extremism is not representative of mainstream Islam. Period. And to think otherwise is closed-minded, xenophobic, racist and generally hateful.

      And seriously, folks, what happened here? We are gays. We are an oppressed group. We have no room to spew shit about other groups. It doesn’t matter if they don’t like us. Haven’t you ever heard of the Golden Rule? It applies both ways.

      Personally, I think if you think badly of other minority groups, you have no room to fight for gay rights. Because the line of closed-minded, “fact-based” thought you’re using to justify your hate is exactly the same as the closed-minded, “fact-based” thought used against the LGBT movement.’
      .
      You said in a relatively short comment what I tried to say in a couple of them, but that is it.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 8:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roger
      roger

      @wen: naive and ignorant of the facts. completely and absolutely ignoring what the west is up against.

      and, i thought you were gone from the discussion? hmmmmmm.

      Dec 15, 2009 at 9:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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