Move over JK Rowling! There’s a new wealthy, straight, white, cisgender writer launching an unprovoked assault on LGBTQ people. This time it’s none other than Joyce Carol Oates.
The 83-year-old is currently blocking people left and right on Twitter after she made inflammatory remarks attacking nonbinary people for absolutely no reason, saying “they/them” pronouns are confusing and language is supposed to be about seeking clarity and blah, blah, blah.
Yesterday, Oates tweeted: “”they” will not become a part of general usage, not for political reasons but because there would be no pronoun to distinguish between a singular subject (“they”) & a plural subject (“they”). language seeks to communicate w/ clarity, not to obfuscate; that is its purpose.
"they" will not become a part of general usage, not for political reasons but because there would be no pronoun to distinguish between a singular subject ("they") & a plural subject ("they"). language seeks to communicate w/ clarity, not to obfuscate; that is its purpose. https://t.co/uRhYJKP0LB
— Joyce Carol Oates (@JoyceCarolOates) October 6, 2021
For the record: Oates is wrong here, both about the rules of the English language and in her sentiment about “they/them” pronouns. For a professional writer who also claims to be a liberal, she really should know better.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
A backlash almost immediately ensued, and pretty soon, Oates found herself trending on Twitter for all the wrong reasons.
Here are just a few of the responses…
We’ve been using it for a very long time. It’s already in general usage.
— Matthew Breen (@matbreen) October 6, 2021
Wait til you hear about “you.” It’ll blow your fucking mind.
— Brielle Claremont (@BrielleClaremo1) October 6, 2021
“I had to call my doctor about my chronic inability to understand that the singular they has been in use in English since the 1300s.”
“Oh, what did they say?”
— Racheline Maltese (@racheline_m) October 6, 2021
“what did she write again- oh” pic.twitter.com/boyhEbZ1m8
— Julinofooly (@julinofooly) October 6, 2021
And yet there is “you”
— Byron Sebastian (@sebastian_byron) October 6, 2021
I really hate to say it, but you are wrong on this one. Had a talk about this over dinner. I am trying to get better about this. It is hard after decades of using “he” or “she”. Don’t stay stuck in the past.
— Ron Waxman 🏳️🌈 (@RonWaxman) October 6, 2021
Talk about missing the plot.
— The Hoarse Whisperer (@TheRealHoarse) October 6, 2021
How do you feel about the singular “we”? As in, “we are not amused!”
— Charlie BRAIN WORMS Stross (@cstross) October 6, 2021
Roses are red
Violets are blue
Singular They
Pre-dates singular you https://t.co/QdcitWKS4m— 🌈Dr. Frizzle (@Swilua) October 6, 2021
Given that Chaucer was using singular ‘they’ in The Canterbury Tales, I feel like you’re around 600 years too late here. You’re also wrong.
— Luther (@LPatenge) October 6, 2021
Oates later tried to walk back the tweet several times, claiming she’s happy to use “they/them” pronouns when talking to non-binary people, and she was just trying to spark an “academic” discussion, and language evolves, and maybe this is all just generational, and blah, blah, blah.
Now, she could’ve left it at that and the whole thing probably would’ve blown over by this time tomorrow. But for whatever reason, she then decided to retweet someone defending her initial tweet, calling “they/them” pronouns “impracticable” and implying that nonbinary people are just seeking attention.
(& Twitter itself a small percent of the "real" world–as we often forget.) https://t.co/hVZS5RWIoR
— Joyce Carol Oates (@JoyceCarolOates) October 6, 2021
Now, people are pissed again. Here’s what they’re saying…
Good morning to everyone except Joyce Carol Oates. Honestly, fuck Joyce Carol Oates.
Everyone else, have a good day. Love you.
— Charlie Knight [they/them] (@CKnightWrites) October 6, 2021
Who let Joyce Carol Oates on Twitter…
— Dr. Jarret Ruminski ? ? (@TheDevilHistory) October 6, 2021
JK Rowling: "The trans are coming for our kids and bathrooms!"
Joyce Carol Oates: "'They' will never be a person. He/She. That's all you get."
Anne Rice: "I'm going to make my main character's mom nonbinary and openly talk about how I question my own gender. Since the 80's."??
— Sincerely, Your Murder Husband (@je_somerton) October 6, 2021
Joyce carol oates really woke up today like "I've got it! No one's heard what I have to say on THIS topic before!"
— Lia (@bbanimalstories) October 6, 2021
“I’m bored and I have 215,000 followers so let me shit on a marginalized group of people who are discriminated against everyday.”
— Joyce Carol Oates— Fifty Shades of Whey (@davenewworld_2) October 6, 2021
Just Joyce Carol Oates on the "asshole about autistic people to asshole about pronouns" pipeline pic.twitter.com/06TzFBE8rK
— Widget Schadenford ???? ??? (@schadenford) October 6, 2021
I've never actually read Joyce Carol Oates writing but her hilariously unaware boomer twitter makes me want to.
— flargo ? (@sorkincel) October 6, 2021
Obviously I’m biased on the grounds that I use they/them pronouns and have never read her work, but Joyce Carol Oates seems like a real dumbass
— Steve Thueson (@Steve_Thueson) October 6, 2021
Joyce Carol Oates is a perfect example of why “don’t meet your heroes” now extends to “also maybe don’t follow your heroes on Twitter”
— Max Booth III (@GiveMeYourTeeth) October 6, 2021
My opinion on they pronouns is why does anyone in 2021 give a shit what Joyce Carol Oates thinks about anything
— Happy Leth Day 2U (@kateleth) October 6, 2021
Graham Gremore is the Features Editor and a Staff Writer at Queerty. Follow him on Twitter @grahamgremore.
Cam
Oh, I see how it is. The woman who challenged the status quo in her day by not taking her husband’s last name, now says that people can’t do new things.
LumpyPillows
No. She said its confusing. It is.
Liquid Silver
@LumpyPillows–Yep. If we had a de-gendered language, it would be easier. We don’t. And anybody calling me “it” will be ignored simply because, without my say-so, it’s an insult.
I consider “they,” uninvited, an insult for the same reason; it’s the plural of the indefinite. Don’t use it to me.
Oates is actually right here. It feels wrong, and it won’t enter the language all that easily. This looks like a momentary faddish sort of thing that will gain some popularity, spread, shrink back, and those who really need the pronoun will ask for it, or create useful new ones as per other people’s writing.
Varley is particularly instructive here. People flip genders more often than I change pants. And Varley’s language feels right and makes sense.
But that involves getting out there and reading and Cam…can’t read. 🙂
DarkZephyr
She’s apologized.
jayceecook
Quiting Twitter at the start of 2016 was one of the best things I ever did for my mental health. Now I don’t have to deal with random people’s misguided tweets and the vile overeating from people who need to fill their hourly attack quota.
queenofsupport
Same. Twitter is such a cesspool.
jayceecook
*overreacting not overeating. Thanks spellchecker…
Agree. Twitter is THE cesspool of cesspools.
Alex_S
Nice, a bunch of clueless queer bullies attacks an old lady for not wanting to deform English language. Cudos!
d3clark
She’s not just an old lady. She’s a well-known author and has a gift for language. As such, she should be more familiar with current trends in speech. She is wrong about what she says about “they” and forgets the singular and plural “you.” The “bullies” are more clued in than Oates is. BTW, pointing out someone’s error is not bullying.
Also, as a Russian troll, you should have better spelling and punctuation, tovarich.
Liquid Silver
It’s more the “conform, conform” aspect of both sides. In no case are you allowed to take a single step out of line or you become a Russian troll or some such garbage.
It’s why I step away from Queerty regularly. I enjoy thinking for myself and…well, this place can’t think, period.
LumpyPillows
@d3clark there is one bully here, and its you. Seriously, you need to think before you jump on the bandwagon. They use of they as a singular pronoun in writing is unworkable – as anyone who writes can attest. Try it…I know you have no idea.
Fahd
I’m not one of her readers. I know very little about her, but when I read 83, and her tweet that’s about being intolerant/scared of change the way an 83 year old might be and that she then tried to take it back when she realized it wasn’t an authoritative utterance from a seasoned writer, but a stupid thing to say and now she’s lumped in with Rowling on Queerty – she should probably get off Twitter…
Tempest in a teapot.
Liquid Silver
She’s…actually kind of right here, but it’s fun to watch all the typical folks circle the wagons and run to misread everything she says. As far as who cares about her? Darlings, she’s accomplished more in literary and language circles than any of you ever will, bar none, 99.99999% chance. Sit down and shut up.
“They” is not currently a singular pronoun and it’s not going to be one again in common use any time soon. Note “currently” and “common.” One can request an exception, and that’s fine. But common? No.
If you come for me, have an intelligent argument. Cam, I regret to inform you, this means you’re absolutely out of the picture. Your troll game is sad and weak and Russia’s payments have to be getting trim for you.
LumpyPillows
I love how these articles only cherry pick the negative comments, to imply Twitter unanimously dragged her. As a writer, I find the use of they in writing to be utterly confusing. I agree with her completely. Any reference to old English is a joke, its almost a different language. As far as how “they” relates to being nonbinary, she said nothing, except it is confusing language. Still, the cancel culture harpies screech like gender murder had been committed.
Liquid Silver
Caedmon’s Hymn? I fraggin’ had to learn the language to read that. It’s not almost a different language, really, it is a different language.
Then also learn the language (although that only took a few weeks as it was much easier and was mostly pronunciation with a language guide) to read The Canterbury Tales and Chaucer’s other writing. But drop me in 1380 England and…I’d still have a long adjustment period. It’s not natural and it would take ages to adjust.
But true that. There’s really no nuance in these reactions. I keep saying it but…Queerty. Low intelligence. Low reaction latitude. Don’t step out of the bullseye. It’s a fluff site mostly for fluff people, and why I’m rarely here.
belugafan
Queerty – just stop with the anti JK Rowling. She has never made unprovoked anti trans comments. She is pro trans, just also pro women. You CAN be both. She is supportive of trans people just not to the disadvantage of cis gender people. Stop with the hate queerty!
Ronbo
Yes. It’s apparent that Graham Gremore can’t understand the inherent difference between women and men who identify as women. It’s a mistake to twist Rowling’s support for women into an attack against trans individuals. Gremore should understand that my love for chocolate babka in no way makes me hate cinnamon bobka.
Gremore’s attacks reflect the ugliest part of illogical tribal bigotry and bully tactics.
Cam
Except she has made multiple “Unprovoked” comments.
And using the right wing talking point that any gain in civil rights by one group is an attack on another group…..subtle there.
LumpyPillows
JK is right. Has she got defensive from the shrill screeching cancel-culture vultures? Yes. To be clear, JK supports trans peoples’ rights. Any honest review of what she was said will conclude that. Full stop. What she disagrees with is the fallacy that trans women are women. They are not. They are trans women and there is a difference, meaningful in some instances and not in others. There is nothing wrong with being trans; they are people who need to be treated with respect and offered full and reasonable accommodation. Denying they aren’t women is not transphobic, it’s just reality in some instances. Most trans people will agree with this. Culture warriors do not, and therein lies the problem – they always push good ideas too far and undermine progress.
Liquid Silver
Wait a second, you like chocolate bobka? WTF is wrong with cinnamon bobka, you piece of crap? Get away from me, you piece of unenlightened Republican garbage, you Russian troll….
DarkZephyr
She apologized. She was not trying to attack non-binary people. She’s clarified again and again and apologized and thanked people for correcting her. She’s nothing like Rowling.
Jim
From the information in the article I don’t see what all the brouhaha is about.
Language evolves and is not mandated.
Seems as if Joyce knows of what she speaks
Heywood Jablowme
If anyone thinks the singular they has been common in English since the 1300s, they is exaggerating! They is forgetting about the verbs!
Also, who got rid of the second person plural? Most languages have it and it’s useful. Y’all in the South still have it, and yinz in Pittsburgh. But whoever got rid of it as a general thing in English, they was making a mistake.
Halfnhalf
Change it. Start using they is and they was. Change the language. Living languages change all the time, let the verb determine if it’s singular or plural.
Bosch
She does not make a value judgement about trans and non-binary people. She makes a point about the ambiguity of the word “they” in terms of singularity and plurality.
Can we stop trying to invent more enemies?
I have identified as non-binary for over 20 years, and this phenomenon is nothing more than a rebellion against the gender construct. It’s hypocritical and narcissistic of us to suggest that our pronouns are as important as those of trans individuals.
LumpyPillows
We have a winner.
Mr. Stadnick
What does it matter what an 83 year old woman thinks? She can say anything she wants but it doesn’t make a difference at all. Her statement doesn’t change anything. She finds it confusing. Big deal.
LumpyPillows
Ageist? What she says, as a successful writer and thought leader, matters a lot more than what you “think”.
GreekKeys
Reading “language is supposed to be about seeking clarity and blah, blah, blah” from someone who writes words for a living is the very embodiment of delusional denialist hypocrisy while defending a group of people who scream about words every chance they get.
Halfnhalf
Over time languages change. So, let’s change. If you are using a singular they for a gender, then just use singular verbs. The verbs will identify them as singular they. Not “they are” but “they is”( some people already use this) Not “they walk” but “they walks” it may sound awkward right now , but give it 30 years or even 50. If we start using singular conjugation for they, people will get used to it. English is a living language. If you said a hundred years ago, ” I’m hungry, I think I’ll nuke a T.V. dinner,” no one would know what you were talking about. So! I say Let’s change the usage.