Though I couldn’t name you a single love interest of singer Vanessa Carlton, of “A Thousand Miles” and “White Houses” fame, without checking WhosDatedWho.com — John Mayer, in 2002, and Stephen Jenkins, apparently with some overlap — apparently some of them have been women? Or at least I’m assuming so, because today at Nashville Pride, which Carlton headlined and attracted more than 18,000, the brunette songstress announced to the crowd, “I am a proud bisexual woman,” according to multiple Queerty readers there. Welcome to the Anna Paquin club, lady!
KaJay
Hmmm. This reminds me of when Hilary Duff claimed to be bi. It’s already completely forgotten she ever claimed it. Vanessa Carleton has been with no one but guys forever, so I guess the entertainers can always claim these things. Maybe she saw herself in the mirror and fell in love. THAT wouldn’t be hard. Just saying. 8P
Blake J
It is just an annoying thing that female celebrities seem to be doing lately.
Most likely it is a selling point for straight males.
It certainly is not a way to help the LGBTQ community.
s_b
@Blake J: Oh, come on. If her intent was to market herself to straight males, she’d have to be an idiot to have made the announcement at *Pride* of all places.
Ash
Well, I’m happy to hear it. Another person to add to our growing list out celebrities. As long as it’s truthful, anyways.
I still remember when her song and video came out for “A thousand miles”, memories of life back then…
M
Good for her I guess? I could never date a bisexual guy though. It would just be too..umm weird. Whenever I hear the song ‘A Thousand Miles’, I automatically think of the movie ‘White Chicks’.lol
KWil
@Blake J
I think that is extremely unfair invalidating her sexuality along with other “trending” celebrities. Bisexuals ACTUALLY exist, deal with it. Don’t speak for everyone when you believe one of us Bi’s are just using it for some fucked up status boost. I for one am extremely proud to have Anna Paquin to have a voice for me as a fellow Bisexual Kiwi, and I don’t take kindly to ill opinions that invalidate that pride. We certainly do not have a privileged existence, we fight the same battles and then some. So don’t you dare write vanessa’s sexuality off as mere sex appeal to hetero’s, then act like we don’t have a right or a hand in LGBT rights, lest you forget the “B” in “LGBT”.
And @M
I’m not fussed about being outside of your tastes, but its a pretty valid fear to be rejected by BOTH camps because of your bisexuality. I love men the same way you do, but I certainly would never reject a gay man for being “tooo into men.” If I loved you, my capacity for loving women would be irrelevant, I’d love you for you. We aren’t weird. We are queer too 🙂
Klarth
@KWil:
You’re right, of course, but I think you’re dismissing the possibility that this is still a publicity stunt. I mean, we haven’t heard from this girl in years. Maybe she is playing up some crush from her ballet days that she may or may not be inclined to repeat.
I know it is unreasonable to expect people to have proven their orientation before claiming it. It’s as bad as parents asking their homo-erotic kids if they could at least try to be straight before they decide, like there aren’t millions of straight virgins who still know they’re straight.
But, it’s kind of a bigger deal in this case, perhaps BECAUSE she came out at PRIDE.
For what it’s worth, I believe Anna. Dunno why.
It just seems like she didn’t really have any other reason to say it when she did besides it being true. I mean, she is at the top of her game right now.
I’m not convinced about Vanessa, though, and I think we have the right to be skeptical without being accused of bigotry.
KWil
I personally would withold judgement until we learn more about someone. To me, the instant reaction of holding the possibility of a publicity stunt is as unhelpful to the bisexual sub-community as “faking it” is to the whole LGBT community. The LGBT community doesnt really suffer until somebody is actually exposed as a faker. So why must bisexuals suffer being publicly doubted and from the get go. I’m coming out to people who give me this bullshit the minute I feel brave enough to tell them. I know how it feels to recieve this, I’m not faking, having other people tell you your sexuality is a lie hurts. I just don’t like to think they have a “right” hold that to me. sorry, but it sucks! I’d rather they questioned me when they knew enough about my feelings. I know you are coming from a “bisexual celebrity” perspective, but I (and other bi’s) personally experience a miniaturization of the public’s rejecting attitude of them. Thats why it feels biphobic, because the constant questioning of validity is almost inherent to our sexuality. It hinges itself on the misconception that our lifestyle is an appealing, “transitional”, or chooseable one.
Do you know how HARD it is to explain to your religious mom that Bisexuality is NOT a choice!!! hahaha, because if you know how to easily, please fortheloveofspongebob call me!!!
Klarth
@KWil:
I imagine it’s just as hard as telling her that homosexuality is not a choice. Something I have experience with.
Ok, I see where you’re coming from.
It’s not fair to make the assumptions I did.
Dunno. I wouldn’t feel as strongly if this was just in an interview, but what is the context of this?
Was she really so overcome with LGBT pride that she just spontaneously came out?
Did she join the PRIDE tour with the intention of coming out at some point?
I just don’t understand it, and that makes me suspicious.
I want to clarify that I do believe bisexuality exists. That’s not what this is about. I don’t happen to know of any bis personally (as far as I know). I think I might have a little more interest in women than I used to, so I kind of get it a little. I have no reason to doubt that the people I chat/post with on forums/entries like these are telling the truth about their desires and feelings.
Really, I don’t even know what else to say. I can’t tell you not to take it personally. You feel what you feel. I’m sorry for that. It must really suck to be hurt by this kind of speculation.
I guess being bi is a little different from being gay in this. I can’t think of a comparable scenario to try to empathize. So I’m shutting up on it.
Whether she is or isn’t is none of my concern anyway, and does not hinge on my belief in her.
christopher di spirito
Vanessa who?
SouLKid
Oh please! Not another ‘bisexual’ female singer. Not that i know her.
jason
Oh, go away, Vanessa. We in the GLBT community do NOT want you on our side. With your stereotypical sultry poses and long, flowing hair, you belong with the sleazy straight guy club. Stay away from us, you’re pathetic.
bruce
Does anyone else think these women are trying to be “trendy” rather than genuine? I mean, you never see them dating other women. Whenever they’re dating someone, it’s a man. It just strikes me as being a confected sort of thing that’s tailored towards trendiness.
Also, with these so-called “bisexual” women, notice how the men they’re dating never seem to be bisexual. It’s only the woman who’s bisexual. Interesting, isn’t it?
Alternatively, think about the possibility that a lot of these women are being instructed by their agents to declare their “bisexuality” so as to get media coverage. If that’s the case, it most certainly is not helpful to the GLBT cause.
jason
The bisexual orientation exists in men and women but the problem with women is that they tend to use their overall sexuality as a marketing ploy. Women will say and do things sexual-wise that have an ulterior motive.
In other words, women will use their sexuality to get ahead in the world, to obtain some sort of economic advantage etc etc. Men, on the other hand, will have sex in order to achieve sexual satisfaction. Men are very honest in this regard.
Therefore, we in the GLBT community need to call these women out. The best way to do it would be to ask them if their boyfriends are bisexual too.
Vanessa, have you ever dated a bisexual man?
DR
@jason:
Speak for yourself, you misogynistic biphobe. Must you troll the web insulting every woman who comes out as bisexual?!? Get over it, it’s getting tired.
graham
Did she mean to say “bisexual” or “attention whore”?
jason
DR,
Well, it’s undeniable that there’s a flood of public relations stunt-oriented women in desperate need of media attention to prop up their fading careers. I thought the media lesbians were the worst until all these “bisexual” women started coming out of the closet looking like Hugh Hefner-approved clones.
jason
My experience is that bisexual women are actually quite homophobic. How is that the case? These women see their bisexuality as a means of pleasing straight guys who will often use them to recruit other women for threesomes. The straight guy will financially support her in return.
I knew one bi woman who said she would never go out with a bisexual man. A lot of the bisexual women who do straight porn will refuse point blank to work with a known bisexual man in their scenes.
We shouldn’t embrace these women at all.
brian
Sorry but I’m not buying this bisexuality shtick of women. They’ve hopped on the bandwagon to get some sort of media status or attention designed to enhance their record sales.
When there are at least the same number of men declaring their bisexuality as are women, only then will I believe there is a level playing field that isn’t based on an exploitative double standard. Until then, girls, you’ll just have to put up with our cynicism.
Luxury
The sad thing about all of the negative comments is that it has become typical….
This is one of the reasons, and a big reason, celebrities don’t come out publicly. They virtually no support when they do. They get accused of having some ulterior motive. They almost have more support from straights than they do Gays… especially the cynical and bitter Queen community.
Hilarious
I just don’t see the point in announcing to the world that you like peanuts if no one’s ever going to see you eating them.
All of these “bisexual” women who’ve “come out” recently seem to be attached to guys everywhere and never a woman. Coincidence?
Vox
Don’t get pissy at the bisexual women who have balls to declare their same sex attraction. So, what…should lesbians/female bisexuals NOT come out until male homosexuality/bisexuality is statistically and socially aligned with the female side? RME.
Shut up Jason. You’re such a damn cartoon. I’m appalled that Queerity hasn’t banned your IP yet. You contribute nothing useful here.
brian
The balls to declare her bisexuality? LOL. It doesn’t take balls at all, honey. Certainly not for a woman. It takes balls for a man. That’s because men have to put up with a greater stigma than women.
You only have to look at the number of “bisexual” women who perform lesbian acts for the men’s magazines to see that women do it to accommodate a man’s fetish. It’s about his fetish more than it is her orientation. These women serve patriarchy rather than challenge it.
I’m getting to the point where I’m going to start advocating that we kick bisexual women out of the GLBT movement. They’re useless. All they do is trivialize our sexuality and serve patriarchy. You’re not wanted, so fuck off.
jason
Hilarious,
Good point about these so-called bisexual women in the entertainment industry. They’re never seen to be in a relationship with a woman, only a man.
You have to wonder as to what they mean by “bisexual”.
Mike L.
Cool, I for onw would have a hard time dating someone who is bi, not b/c I don’t believe it (I do), but b/c the competition for his love would double! That is the only reason, can I compete against other men AND women. It sorta makes you feel even more pressure than say just competing with one group of ppl, also the fact that what he could find in a girl I may not have at all (not talking about genetals here, but other things that may be intangible about a person).
Good for her, women are very fortunate to be able to come out with little negative consequences(even if it’s b/c the male heterosexual pigs sexualize them too much-epsecially if they’re as beautiful as Ms. Carlton is).
jason
Kwil and Vox,
I am not against genuine bisexual women per se. However,I am against women who claim to be bisexual as part of a strategy of getting media attention and of appealing to men who generally crap on our rights.
I refer to it as the Jerry Springer effect. Jerry Springer used to have an assortment of guests on his show. Every time there was a lesbian or bi woman on his show, his warm-up man would get the crowd to cheer and holler their approval. Every time there was a gay or bi man, the same warm-up man would encourage the crowd to boo.
christopher di spirito
I notice anyone who said anything less than glowing about Vanessa Carlton got a thumbs down rating. Too funny.
Mark
Who is this woman and why should I care?
Revemupman
In other words, women will use their sexuality to get ahead in the world, to obtain some sort of economic advantage etc etc
@Jason
You hit it dead on the head. Women like to claim victim hood in order to gain economic status in society. They use their sexuality as an advantage. I don’t blame them though. This world is cold to the touch. And you have to do what is needed to survive. If you read about Karren steffans (Superhead) And how she used being a video vixen and a hooker to write a book about all the famous celebs she slept with in order to bank off of her trials. You have a major sea of pop singers today claiming to be bisexual. Its a marketing ploy in order to satisfy both heterosexual and homosexual markets. This is why I tell LGBQT to part from feminism. They are only out to further the dominance of women. They are not seeking equality at all. Just responsibility with not accountability.
Revemupman
Example: Take a look at hip hop rapper Nikki Minaj. She is a lesbian rapper who appeals to heterosexual fetishes. She is in a genre of music who vilifies homosexuals yet she is highly anticipated for her album release.
If a known male rapper today decides to come out of the closet he has to watch his back and front. And he can forget about continuing a rap career. This right here shows you how liberated women are. This is not a womans battle anymore. You have your freedom, its up to the males to grab ours, so step ladies…..
Knowning the homophobia hip hop produces yet a female emcee can show her true colors and still be adored is because she appeals to heterosexual culture.
Revemupman
These type of ladies do nothing for the LGBT cause. And you can thumbs down my comments all you like. Truth is truth, and you can’t hide it like the sun.
Sam
Wow the response to this is total bs. I’m a long time VC fan and if you knew anything about her you’d realise how stupid some of these comments are.
If she’s says she’s bi I’m inclined to believe it rather than see it as some publicity stunt given her stance on women in music (btw she’s basically the opposite of a madonna, gaga, x-tina type), the lyrics she writes, the kind of music she makes, the way she’s chosen to go with her career etc. She’s not a woman who’s just concerned with selling as many albums as she can regardless of the cost, she does have a great deal of integrity.
Seriously you need to actually find something out about the person you’re talking about before you start generalising and slagging them off, genuinely bisexual women do exist outside of straight men’s fantasies and for all you know she’s one of them.
Some of the comments on this site make me embarassed to be a gay man sometimes, the stupidity is rampant.
BamBam
While I agree that bisexuality in women may often be just for straight guys, I believe and respect V.C. in this case: saying it at a pride would reach mostly just other LGBT’s and is trying to help the community.
KWil
I can’t believe this. Almost EVERY post from number 10 downwards are just plain fucking upsetting to read as one seemingly solitary Bisexual person. You have no idea how unfair your treatments of bisexuality are. Almost ALL of your comments about as misconceived and attacking of one’s sexuality as practically any religious organisation. You call us choosing, attention obsessed, invalid, fake, ultimately you condemn us to your own made up hell outside of the queer community.
You all seem to have NO idea what it is like to read this as somebody who actually identifies with bisexuality. How on earth can you bring yourselves, a fellow suffered culture, to actually slander somebody “different” than yourselves.
You all have made NO distinction between fakers and bisexual women. in fact, a number of you just used to term “bisexual” to directly signify being fake. Some of you claim to understand and love “genuine” bisexuals, yet you have already in your minds classified and discriminated us, how the fuck do I transition from a “fake ass” to a “genuine” Bisexual to any of you. What must one do?
We do not validate our sexuality by proving a history with both sexes for all to see and agree. We don’t deserve to be placed in a box of doubt, of instant questioning. We do not pride ourselves on sexual objectivity, a Bi-Girl doesn’t inherently love/need attention, a Bi-Guy can’t even get a fucking date with most of you.
Nobody has any right to stick this woman in a box yet. Nobody. Questioning her choice of coming out at pride is so futile. You are not in her head. she doesn’t need to whip out a double-ended dildo on stage and prove herself to you with a girl. From my point of view, Pride is a fucking MOTIVATING environment to come out.
I mean seriously, the night I came out was when Lady Gaga told me that “tonight was the night I can be exactly who I want to be” at a Monster Ball, it was my own Pride march. I decided I wanted to be free of the closet. Didnt think I would look back, but look what happens to us the second we do come out. Look what has happened to Vanessa by your very own hands. Fear, doubt and rejection.
Go on and tell me not to take this personally, but this is a blog for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexuals, and Transgendered people. The issues and stories are not supposed to be mere celebrity politics, this IS personal. If I can’t get you to look outside your identity as one letter in the LGBT acronym, I cant get you to understand the things we each suffer in our differences and likenesses. And while you can’t understand, I can’t bear to hear you offer your two cents on the Bi-tribe. Its not fair, and it’s also not fitting with the ideals we have made for the betterment of the whole queer community.
In short. Please give her a break, she has nothing to prove to you bar her own honesty. Honesty can be tarnished, but it should not be dismissed from the start. So quit being scared of what yo’ momma told you bout us Bi’s, start listening to us instead.
Revemupman
In short. Please give her a break, she has nothing to prove to you bar her own honesty.
If she has nothing to prove why don’t she keep those bisexual statements to herself. I’m looking for progress in male sexuality. Could careless about an already liberated sex.
Revemupman
I don’t need to claim who’s faking it or who’s real. Take a look at society, who’s burried in the closet more?
Who’s sexuality gives them an advantage?
Who’s sexuality is more liberated?
The answers for these questions tells us that another female coming out is useless to our cause at this point. Especially if she’s bisexual, who cares, Its the new trend for women now.
Ash
Wow, sexist much? A lot of you keep saying that women use bisexuality as a maketing ploy and that men are much better than to do that. Umm, no. Men don’t do it because of…MEN.
(Most) Straight men are seen as open or even find bisexuality hot in a woman so woman get away with saying it. Male celebrities on the other hand can’t usually get away with saying it as other men don’t accept it.
I agree that it’s disgusting when any celebrity claims to be something they are not, but stop saying it’s ALL women and all our fault. It’s the fame whores and they exist in BOTH genders.
Revemupman
No one is saying its women’s fault at all. Your getting the message wrong. There you go placing women in the victim catagory again. Women are liberated sexually. Its time for men to fight for equal play. This is not about sexism. This is about the mere obvious struggles you see in society.
Just the other day my mother was saying how disgusted she is when two men kiss on screen. But when I asked her about women she said, Ah who cares, their just having fun. Your sexuality is not demonized like males are. This is the point of my message. The real battle is to liberate males and their sexuality.
Revemupman
Even blind people can see the stigma is towards male sexuality. We are viewed as predators, abusers, pedofiles, the works…..
I even read a news report of a male pedo dressing as a women in order to get close to children. And guess what, HE COMPLETED THAT MISSION!
Revemupman
Take a look at the documentary outrage. Who is the main politicians they outed in that film
ALL MALES!
WHY IS THAT? Cause females have no need to be in the closet anymore.
Revemupman
Just the other day I seen an add outside my home which said
MAN UP FREE HIV TESTS!
And guess who’s picture they put right by that……
YEP a black man……
KWil
What you obviously don’t realise is that your view is Bi-phobic regardless of gender. We shouldn’t have to prove our VALIDITY. That is not a call to arms to shut us up. You are depriving us of validity in our own orientation entirely, can you stop selfishly preaching your “causes” as a homosexual male (I’m assuming so) at the detriment of bisexuals. Since when did LGBT all of a sudden become just G.
Stop linking Bisexuality with the word TREND for chrissakes! I don’t care if you exclusively mean females, you wouldn’t survive one goddamn minute amongst women with this view. It’s disgusting! You do NOTHING for Bi-Men seperately. Don’t be fooled for one second that I, as a male, personally would accept Bi-phobia as a combatant to Homophobia. Don’t be fooled that any Bisexual would. Are we really THAT expendable to you for your “cause”!?
We don’t need your derision to “equal” out gendered power. If you didn’t notice, we are all supposed to be on the same side.
But if all you can do is sniff for fake in the Bisexual community, then I sir cannot your ally.
counterpoll
@KWIL: Most of the posts here devaluing women’s bisexuality are by one person [Jason] and his various alter-egos. Ignore him. On any thread concerning bi-women he will obsessively post using the same stock phrases over and over.
Until he is institutionalized or Queerty decides to boot him, we’re stuck with his vicious rants.
KWil
Revemupman.
As a male bisexual. Your treatment of female bisexuals makes me sick. it does nothing for us. I will burn myself alive the day I believe Bi-Phobia should EVER be acceptable in any amount as a combatant to Homophobia. I don’t care about gender, NO bisexual is expendable for your “cause.”
Last time I checked, we were all supposed to be working together for an LGBT cause. But as long as you believe in rejection and militancy to balance out gender powers at the expense of any of us, I refuse to be your ally. You want equality, don’t step over your friends to get there.
Revemupman
Your right you shouldn’t have to prove the validity of your life ventures at all. The fact is I’m tired of seeing women liberation everywhere in the media. Its overshadowing the true cause of EQUALITY. Gay suicide with males is a MUCH higher rate than females. Men are not accepted to bear femininity yet women can easily blend in masculinity. The problem stems from male sexuality having rules, while in the words of rapper young dro “My girl gotta girlfriend” mentality which seems to be the new trend of hollywood today.
And hollywood only cateres to the vain in all of us. So I don’t blame anyone from there at all.
KWil
Oh Crap! I thought I lost those last two comments. Now they have resurfaced I sound like a douche. Sorry guys :/
I know, I’m told to ignore people for my own benefit. I’m really sorry if I sound rabid, but its the one voice I have that has had to be repressed all my life. At times I am so compelled to speak, I yell, and for this reason I can’t ignore things easy. My own curse of empowerment I guess. My apologies.
james_from_the_great_city_of_cambridge
@counterpoll: Right. Jason and his alters say the same thing in every thread. They hate 1)Blacks 2)bisexuals 3)Liberals, in the order…why are you on this site again Jason?
DR
This is why guys don’t come out as bisexual. Look what readers did to Mike Manning and the politician from Philly and even the NAGAAA issues. You (gay men) even treat bisexual men like dirt. The lesbian community is a lot more progressive when it comes to sexuality, which may also be why women are more comfortable admitting bisexuality. They don’t vilify women for it the same way gay men vilify it!
counterpoll
By the time we wake up tomorrow, Jason and his sock-puppets will have once again derailed numerous threads on Queerty. He appears to have these cycles when he can no longer control himself and his rage cannot be contained.
But hey, I forgot to say WELCOME to Ms Carlton.
Revemupman
Just the past month ago my sister was breezing through the channels and she ran across Oprah’s show when she had that female country singer on it. She told me do females even come out anymore. And I had to lol, truth hurts. Just like the Queen Latifa article thats on Queerty, she dosen’t have to prove the validity of her life. If Queen Latifa decides to dump her girlfriend and date a man does she have to go to pride events to claim that?
Thats exactly my point…..
Jadis
@KWil: The B gets treated just as badly as the T in this supposed “GLBT” happy family.
gilber
sexual deviancy is rampant in this world.too many sexually inverted anti-couples faking sexual belonging and naturalness.the psycho-physical understanding of mono-sexuality and di-sexuality is very hidden,in its place, very skillfully, the social version is strongly enforced.as a consequence, many homosexuals without any psycho-physical understanding of the mechanisms taking place have become ironically sexual deviants(socially but not physically)that avoid sexual deviancy(physical).this occurs because by DESIGN asymmetric insemination requires ones to experience sexual deviancy.as a result,most males emit “sodomy”(output) and absorb “lesbianism”(input).a good mathematical model of this can be constructed showing the run-off(weathering) and blending of both branches of homosexuality as they are eroded by varying different parameters such as sexual dimorphism and plotting emission(output)vs absorption(input).Bottom line is, careful with those males with the ability to feel(excite) and consume other sorts of organ’s discharges and reject those of their own kind.the social version call those of this type non-sexual deviant/inverts(aka straights),but make no mistake,males of this sort are the actual PSYCHO-PHYSICAL sexual deviants to the core, and yes, depraved as hell as well.these are the ones who pretend to teach morality to the eternally Moral ones,the HOMOS and the HOMOSEXUALS.
Jadis
@gilber: Needs moar acid.
N
@Gilber:
The more I’m trying to understand what the fuck you’re saying, the more my brain hurts.
Hilarious
Here comes the “bisexual” rampage. It’s really not that serious. Chill the fuck out.
The term “bi-phobic” makes me giggle. No seriously.
Bisexuality is like the last thing on anyone’s mind, there’s not enough care there to assume anyone has a phobia. I can assure you they don’t.
missanthrope
Wow, how did I know that on this subject all of the assholes were going to crawl out of the cracks and say shit like:
“I don’t know if bisexuality is real”
“She’s doing it for attention and straight guys”
“Bi’s are wishy washy”
“Why do bisexual women all have boyfirends?”
“Bi’s wanna have it both ways”
“Bi’s are lying”.
It’s like playing biphobia bingo with queerty commenters.
jason
My attitude towards bisexual females is gleaned from real-world observations, and not from a knee-jerk reaction. Here is what I’ve found in relation to many bisexual females, especially those in the entertainment industry:
a) They are almost always in relationships with men. You hardly, if ever, see them in a relationship with a woman.
b) They often refuse to date bisexual men.
When you combine a and b, it’s patently obviously that the true homophobes are these bisexual women.
jason
Also, if you look at the bisexual women who perform porn, many of them are horrifically homophobic towards gay or bisexual men. They will often refuse to work with any man who has ever had a male-male experience.
There is a black-list in the “straight” porn industry in relation to bisexual men, and much of this can be attributed to the homophobia of these bisexual women. I urge you to check it out.
Facts are facts, and it’s a fact that many of these bisexual women are exceptionally homophobic.
Who Cares
I am trisexual….bg deal
jason
DR,
The reason more men don’t come out as bi is because women conspire against male bisexuality. Refere to my illustration of the bisexual women in porn who often denigrate bisexual men and refuse point blank to work with them. The same attitude has spread to the mainstream.
If anything, I think we in the GLBT community need to weed out the women who use their sexuality – including bisexuality – as a marketing ploy. These women are hugely damaging to our movement.
Let’s keep the GLBT community an orientation movement, and not something that is exploited by women who are marketing themselves in ways that don’t really help us.
Pete
It’s a trend that is unlikely to dissipate, but one may have to brace themselves for the next series of revelations and behaviors as America fuels its appetite for the forbidden.
http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2010/06/vanessa-carlton-wants-you-to-know-shes-also-bisexual/
jason
No-one is treating bisexuality with disrespect. What I am doing is treating a certain group of FEMALES who use bisexuality as a marketing ploy in order to elevate themselves to some special hallowed ground reserved only for “hot bisexual females with straight male approval”.
The GLBT community needs to be more discerning in how it treats women – especially in the entertainment industy – who claim to be lesbians or bisexual. This is necessary because women are known to use their sexuality as a ploy rather than as a genuine expression of their inner selves.
One of my best friends is a genuine bisexual female, by the way.
jason
Revemupman,
Your post no. 30 perfectly illustrates how a certain type of woman – lesbian or bi – is accommodating the fetishes of sleazy straight guys who are very homophobic towards the concept of gay rights in general.
Syl
@missanthrope:
Not to dismiss biphobia from gays, but posters like Jason make valid points. There are bisexual women, in porn and in the mainstream, who are unfairly prejudiced against bi and gay men, and there are lots of cheap whores who “come out” as bisexual for publicity and to titillate straight male fans, but then do nothing to contribute to the movement and continue to mistreat others. Female bisexuality is “safer”, in society and media: some of the most uptight, homophobic males will admit to finding the idea of two girls together arousing, and TV networks regularly throw out a female same-sex kiss when they’re desperate for ratings. It goes to how our society views gender and sexuality: if a girl’s with another girl it’s innocent and sexy and maybe they’ll let you join in or at least watch. A girl is deemed more likely to “grow out of it”. But if a guy ever, even just once, does so much as kiss another guy, he is forever and irrevocably gay; the closest comparison to this bizarre double-standard would be the one-drop rule regarding blackness in America: . A “bi” girl is just seen as a slut or attention whore at the worst, or as the new, “empowered”, and sexy woman. But a bi guy is seen as a fag in denial.
Revemupman
@Jason
Exactly, the battle is within males perception of sexual encounters. Women are already liberated by both genders. This is a battle within our own gender. Women are no of no importence in this chapter of subject.
This is the message I’m trying to convey. But everyone on here seems to vilify my argument by saying I’m Biphobic or a women hater. I could careless about womens issues cause you barely have any besides abortion……
Lets face it, the cards are not in favor of males sexuality. Even heterosexual women find our sexuality disgusting. This is the issue, why are men demonized?
jason
Revemupman,
Good point about how outing seems to be reserved for males only.
Also, have you noticed how the derogatory expression “down low”, used to describe black bisexual men, is reserved only for the males? Why aren’t bisexual black women described as being on the “down low” too?
The answer is obvious. Bisexuality in females is admired by the patriarchy, and thus mustn’t be denigrated.
Estraven
The definition of bisexuality is the ability to be erotically aroused by and/or fall in love with both/all genders. Therefore, Vanessa could be attracted to both men and women, and have realized within herself that she is, and have honestly come out at Pride, without yet having acted on the female attractions. If you just ask about sexual behaviors and attractions, up to a third of the population will admit to being attracted to both genders, and about a quarter will admit to sexual behavior with both genders, but under 5% will own the label “bisexual.” And with reactions such as the ones above, who can blame us? Why would Vanessa come out as bisexual if she isn’t when any bisexual gets hateful comments like the ones above, up to and including genocide? (“Bi” rhymes with “lie” and “die”)
One the other hand, if the gay world accepted us, the straight world might, and if all the people engaging in same and opposite sex behaviors and fantasies actually ID’d as bi and therefore queer, think how much more power the queer movement would have!!!
james_from_the_great_city_of_cambridge
@jason: I don’t think the best way to prove your theory of the phobia of the general population towards bisexual males is to use female porn whores as an example and extrapolate their points of view to the general population. Just sayin’…
james_from_the_great_city_of_cambridge
@jason: Outing is reserved for males because it’s male politicians that bash gays and end up being gay themselves…our elected politicians also tend to be overwhelmingly male so there’s a whole lot more of them to out…men to be more sexually depraved than women as well. Your points don’t make any sense whatsoever and just come across as stupidly misogynistic…stop embarrassing yourself and us Jason.
gilber
Sexual dimorphism is a condition of sexual inversion, dichotomy, physical oddness and asymmetry in a couple, it turns a couple (isomorphic, symmetric) into an anti-couple (dimorphic, asymmetric), in which the physical and sexual properties and conditions of the latter are inverted with respect to the former. Nonetheless, the social version quickly creates the illusion of oneness, complementarity, adjustment, parity and realistic sexual belonging for the anti-couples and twist these very same natural conditions when dealing with the natural universal couples, the sexual homologous ones, as if their relationship were unnatural and fabricated by them, instead of created and constructed by the physicals laws of nature themselves, This social version is the reason why a woman can very well tell a masculine male that if he does oral sex to her, he becomes a real men, however, if he ever does oral sex to a man like himself, he will not only feel feminized, but he will also become a fagot, This classification is not natural, it comes from the social version and its created artificial jargon. The physical version, however, clearly points that a woman can only make a male feel that what she structurally is, a female; after he performs oral sex on her, he is supposed to go out thinking he got manhood, and that he became a real man, this is the social version vs the physical one.to become a social sexual deviant or an actual physical one,these are the choices.
jason
James from Cambridge,
A lot of people draw conclusions on human sexuality from porn. What happens in porn eventually percolates to the mainstream. These “female porn whores” need to be taken seriously because they are contributing to the bisexual double standard that we now see.
Revemupman
Most men fight for women’s issues and simply neglect our own issues. This is the mindset of our culture. Men are being held back due to males. Women are of no importance, a million of them are already out and proud celebs now. Issue lies in liberating males and their perception of sexuality.
Anyone who disagree is just a mad feminist who wants to include women into every issue.
SSCHIEFRSHA
@gilber: Another lecture?
Revemupman
This social version is the reason why a woman can very well tell a masculine male that if he does oral sex to her, he becomes a real men, however, if he ever does oral sex to a man like himself, he will not only feel feminized, but he will also become a fagot, This classification is not natural, it comes from the social version and its created artificial jargon. The physical version, however, clearly points that a woman can only make a male feel that what she structurally is, a female; after he performs oral sex on her, he is supposed to go out thinking he got manhood, and that he became a real man, this is the social version vs the physical one.to become a social sexual deviant or an actual physical one,these are the choices.
EXACTLY, Why do feminized men hold such a enormous stigma? THIS IS MY ARGUMENT PEOPLE!!! The battle is within men ONLY!
DR
@jason:
Unless and until you have solid proof that Ms. Paquin or Ms. Carlton or any other bisexual female celeb (besides Tila Tequila, who we all know is not quite right) have any hidden agenda which exists outside of your biphobic, misogynistic conspiracy theories, you need to stop trolling the boards with your venom.
jason
Revemupman,
We also need to fight female marketing.
counterpoll
@jason + his sock-puppet cheering party: Get some professional help, please. If you’re already getting help, get better help.
The signs of total psychological and cognitive melt-down are in full evidence in your posts.
I’m worried for you + about you.
Truth
I stand by my belief that there’s no such thing as Bisexuality. It is a farce and a pretense for gay men and women to double dip and hide in public view. This woman is not bisexual and she’s seeking attention to increase her sales. It’s a travesty and should not be tolerated by the GLTQ community.
Jeremy
Congratulation to Vanessa. She’s a good artist and her music is not so crappy at all. OTOH, I smell an upcoming album…
gilber
SSCHIEFRSHA (LOL) yes and noooooo,but yes, it is another lecture!!!!!(LOL) as a scientist that have done quite a few publications in the field of neurophysiology with some small experience dealing with vemeronasal receptors etc, i always tell other gay and lesbian people to “cherry pick” many of the researches concerning sexuality.data is being manipulated the way they want.when the homosexuals do not understand the physical process and mechanisms going on and the social ones, they become weak.few can hardly believe that they are actually two feminizing agents using contrary mechanisms,and we need to be aware of this,one is nature and the other is society.nature or the universe “effeminate” by processes involving pseudo-hermaphroditism by means of binding and absorption,the meaning to this very broad.whereas the social version is a how to treat or behavioral manipulative fabrication that has no psycho-physical base at all.for instance,there is a man doing oral sex in room to a female,and there is another male doing the same but to another male.many questions are possible,e.x. who of the two males is a sexual deviant/invert.if under these conditions sexual dimorphism were to increase(imaginatively),one of these to males will end up realizing that he is a PHYSICAL SEXUAL INVERT/DEVIANT and effeminate whereas the other won’t even notice.
Jadis
@Truth: You stand wrong. Yeah, some celebrities say they’re bi to increase their moola and cred. We all know that. Extrapolating this rather rarefied crowd into every bisexual woman ever is where you head into bigotland. It’s easier to just call them all liars, than to try to integrate a new idea and risk a headache.
If you don’t want to tolerate them, why should anyone else tolerate you?
counterpoll
@Gilber: Your grasp of science is roughly equivalent to your grasp of English.
It’s a solid *FAIL* on both counts.
Dare I repeat myself? Well, yes, I shall:
Get some help
Jadis
@counterpoll: Well, either he’s a nineteenth century psychology professor with schizophrenia caused by the time warp that deposited him here, or he’s tripping. I have no idea which, though.
Glósóli
Vanessa is not a Lady Gaga, or a Katy Perry, or a Ke$ha; you will never see her sell her soul for attention, something that those other three are pretty known for.
Vanessa has never been one to use sex or controversy to help her career; she is more a musician than she is a celebrity and I think she likes it that way. She usually shies away from fame, so I’m sure coming out was a pretty big deal to her and not just a publicity stunt.
Many people here should do a little research about Ms. Carlton before accusing her of being just one more in the sea of fauxsexual pop stars.
Revemupman
To say there is no such thing as bisexuality is simular to you accepting straight couples demonizing your sexuality. The problem is not with the LGBT community, or even women. THE ISSUE LIES WITHIN MEN!. We need to find ways to liberate ourselves. We need to be able to break the gender roles down like the women did in the 1960s with feminism. But all we do is fight for useless sovereign nations and kill eachother off. We have no loyalty anymore, all we do is serve.
A man serves everyone except himself……
How sad…….
nikko
JASON and REVEMUPMAN, you two are right on. The truth you speak typically is misunderstood by the lazy majority.
Revemupman
It does not matter if these ladies are gimmicks or not……
If they are accepted in mainstream culture in hollywood. Then they are recognized in society as social norm/trend. Which means another step towards WOMEN LIB!
I’m not looking for those anymore. Its like buying a mix bag of chips and always pulling out the pretzel. I WANT A CHEETO FOR ONCE!
Revemupman
@Nikko
Thank you, at least someone understands my viewpoint. I’m all for liberation, but I want a equal playing field. And right now its feeling kind of lop sided.
counterpoll
As predicted earlier, the loons have overtaken the asylum. Jason has become completely unhinged, run amok along with it’s pretend ‘friends’ and derailed yet another thread here on Queerty.
When, pray tell, will someone sane, with the good sense that is superior to a goat, ‘moderate ‘ its posts so we don’t have to find higher ground??
Stop the insanity, the inanity, and the revolting rants. Please.
dylan
still, I love Vanessa Carlton and her expressive music.
james_from_the_great_city_of_cambridge
@counterpoll: Counter, the scary truth is that I don’t think Queerty has a way of blocking Jason/Jesse Helms/Gilber/Nikko/Revemupman/etc. (and I know, as I’m sure you know, there are some other alters that he has as well) because all he has to do if they do block him is clear his cache and set up a dummy email to post again and I assume that’s what he’s been doing. It’s frightening as hell to me that he has this kind of time and energy to put into what is basically arguments that he has with himself. I say that as someone who is laid off and has lots of time on his hands, LOL. He usually stops when one of us outs him on a thread and moves to another thread but I don’t see people I use to see on here (and have fun, intelligent arguments with) and I think it’s because of the tone he creates IN EVERY THREAD, a horrible, vicious, ugly and really stupid tone. He has the same angry arguments in every thread. He starts with some ridiculous, over-the-top statement, which he then offsets by an alter’s more reasonable sounding argument BUT THE TONE IS THE SAME. THE NAMES HAVE THE SAME OVER THE TOP FEEL AS WELL!! WE KNOW IT’S ONE GUY DOING THIS!!! I’m seriously thinking about taking time off from here like many have and maybe coming back in a few weeks when he’s hopefully moved on…
counterpoll
@James from Cambridge:
Yep, I agree. Too many of these threads are hijacked by “new posters,” trõlls, and sock-puppets. Queerty needs to figure out if it’s losing its fan base + becoming the go-to site for the rediculously inane, OR a place for thoughtful people to post.
The site, like Jæson, is becoming unhinged. It’s sad to say that whatever value this site has is eroding fast + furious, Advertisers are becoming scant, and we’re seeing less + less of our better commenters. Need I name names?
Be well,
Phil
Hey, not a troll here.
Bisexual women, get off your fucking soap box. Oh woe is me, I’ll never be accepted in society because the heteros AND the homos hate me. I’ll never be accepted by either community because of my UNIQUE and SPECIAL position as a lover of both men and (maybe!) the occasionally women.
Fuck off, your fight isn’t any harder.
Phil
Wait, no, that was totally a troll. At least I’m not a Jason troll though.
Blake J
Where does ‘competition / options doubles’ idea come from?
If you are bisexual man, you have the choice of ~45% of the population who are straight (bisexual) woman and ~5% of the population who are gay (bisexual) men.
Obviously you also need to exclude those who you are not attracted to and vice versa.
counterpoll
Oh, what a beautiful morning!
Petrol continues to flow wildly into the gulf; Jason is still at large, raging like a maniac; and Mary Cheney is still not allowed to get legally married to her partner but somehow still a proud Republican.
Makes me want to buy Vanessa Carlton a mai tai and a huge quilt so we can hide out together!
Robyn Ochs
I invite those of you who don’t yet “get” bisexuality to read one of the amazing anthologies out there. Getting Bi: Voices of Bisexuals Around the World and Bi Any Other Name are two excellent books to start with.
[img]http://www.robynochs.com/images/Robyn_and_Getting_Bi_Author_medium.jpg[/img]
Revemupman
“Counter, the scary truth is that I don’t think Queerty has a way of blocking Jason/Jesse Helms/Gilber/Nikko/Revemupman/etc”
WTF, why would you want to block someone just because we have different viewpoints? This is insane, follow your agenda or get booted huh?
Ok I’ll just read posts from now on since people are crying to boot me out of here…..
gilber
counterpoll how do you dare to insinuate that i’m lying?!!!!!!!.do you have any scientific proof to tell me i’m wrong? is there any physical evidence that what i’m saying is wrong? how do you dare to deny the physical evidences? and a nineteenth century psychologist? who? me?!!! i hate psychology buddy.you don’t know how much i hate it.this is the very one who created all this mess, and still stand behind the OLD social version.it is because of this pseudo-science that gay people has suffered sooooo much throughout history. when two sexually inverted anti-couples tell you in your face that they are “straight” do you think it is PHYSICALLY TRUE ? or when they tell you that it is not them but you, the sexual deviant or invert, simply because you don’t perform the sexual “stunts” they are trained to do to the other sex,e.x when a heterosexual man tells you that you are effeminate because you don’t lick(and FEEL!!) clitoris but instead a freaking cock,do you think it is you the androgynous one?,and why not him? after all,it is him the one who has a non-masculine “other half”,don’t you think? do you believe in the sexual positions and roles invented by the social version as being able to make you feel like a woman? what about if it the woman actually feeling like the man? or even worse, that you are attracted to your own(AND ONLY) sex because you have feminine hormones that you got from your mother’s womb,and the bunch of funny stupidities, such us the brain of MASCULINE homosexuals having the same size than those of heterosexual females.do you believe it? wouldn’t it be more intelligent and more realistic to think that is is the poor female the one who has to PRETEND that she has a REAL,EVIDENT, NATURAL SEXUAL ORGANIC BELONGING,and not a socially fabricated one plagued with sexual dimorphism and adopting others sexuality as hers.wouldn’t it be the woman’s brain the one turning “masculine” and forced to absorb(feel) what belongs physiologically to a homosexual couple,inside and out? however,do you know exactly what version they have been trained and programmed to bash you with, the physical or the ideological one?. do you know their major differences? what part is it that you don’t understand or DON’T want to understand, the emission/excitation and absorption part? or the asymmetry/symmetry relation or perhaps is it the sexual dimorphism concept?
Hilarious
For once Jason isn’t the looniest toon in town. Take a look at your own posts and actions Bi-Brigade. You have an absolute fit if anyone posts something you disagree with and thumb down(which is just plain funny) everything to try and silence people and basically push an agenda no one is fighting you on.
Even when I told you no one cares one way or the other about you somehow that was too offensive for your sensitive natures.
Toughen up softies, it’s just not that serious. I can’t stress enough how little anyone cares about bisexuality in the first place.
We don’t care. Straight or gay we just don’t care. You’re free to be bi, partake, and get over yourselves.
gilber
the mind universally is divided as heterophilic and homophilic.homophilic minds are of two types, non cross-sexual and non cross-gender,whereas heterophilic ones are cross-gender and cross-sexual,to various degrees,e.x bisexuals and transgenders.however,due to different degrees of absorptivity there is a spectrum of cognition and therefore of behavior.as a consequence some minds become non cross-gender and cross-sexual,others are cross-gender and non cross-sexual, some are neither cross-gender nor cross-sexual. some others can be both. since there is no risk of organic androgyny from consuming (orally)hormones or rubbing different nerves and muscles together effeminacy(or masculinization) is therefore mental not organic. the major “conflict” under this psycho-physical condition is experienced between non cross-genders,specially males.of the two non cross-gender males,one can be cross-sexual and the other non cross-sexual.if they could turn the other into a member of the opposite sex and claim the highest level of masculinity they would.since there no natural pathway for organic “androgyny” through sexuality, it is just mental. this is when understanding binding and absorption/emission and excitation becomes important and factors such as receptivity, and sensitivity to contrary systems.sexual belonging/adoption also play an important role in determining many properties.
Revemupman
Fact of the matter is this, MEN ARE BEING LEFT BEHIND. In all society’s progresses. We are still stuck in the stone age with our perception of sexual relations. And especially here in America, we follow the rules of heterosexual culture while women break boundries. Look at the new Lady Gaga post here on Queerty. She’s walking around a mets game throwing up middle fingers and she’s GETTING HEADLINE ATTENTION: Let this be some pop male singer and watch the world send him death threats via email, texts, and flaming paper bags.
If you really want to journey into how liberated women are take a look into black culture. Have they made any movies dealing with females in the closet? Have they made any movies dealing with how promiscuous woman are? Or do you usually see dipictions of the rather peomiscous DL thug bravado type? Or how they act like the primary distribution of AIDS come from DL men?
Why is it men can not display public affection towards another? Even if its on a friendly vibe, theres still rules and regulations when hanging out with other males around women. And women agree to these terms silently. They don’t speak about it, the second you do anything remotely offsetting the gaydar goes bananas. Yet you see women connect on a more intimate level in friendship rather than males. I’ve been suspected of being gay because I use to hang with a friend alot in high school. And we were just friends.
Take a look in the mirror ladies and gentlemen. Women are excelling in every area of society. They are becoming the social norm while we remain in “DEVIANT” status. And until men wake up, this problem will only cut deeper into the core.
kvitka
I dont believe that so many young women is really bisexual. it is false and double standarts. It makes for straight men. Is this makes double standarts in homophobia more strong!
GAY GUYS, wake up! It is necessary to enter a fashion on male bisexuality. Many straight women like gay erotic also. It is necessary to clean the jealousy factor simply.
Many guys suppress own homoerotism. It is easier to them to admit that they bisexuals. It is necessary to advance male bisexuality, also as advance female bisexuality. It should become fashionable and ordinary. And accordingly there will be no homophobia. And it will bring freedom to us.
kvitka
Jason, you absotelly right! I wanna talk with you.
[email protected]
gilber
homophobia is the result of social programing.the social version has its own jargon,this jargon becomes real to the point that it passes as physical truth.the social theory or version, is the result of the work of philosophers,theologian and psychologist for the construction of the macho identity.which is unnatural.many are caught into this jargon because it is directed toward non-cross gender males from birth.men,real men,macho,etc are some of the titles that they get once they are able to practice cross-sexuality and feel conformable with it.the social version is a behavioral how to treat manipulative and brainwashing mechanism with many tricky schemes,many of them are aimed toward EMOTIONAL programing,for instance ,if a men cries, he is not a men,if a men is not willing to do what a female wants in order to please her ,he is not a men, and the list goes on.the social version opposes the physical one,in fact it gives the psycho-physical conditions of same sex couple to asymmetric ones.it is like calling a black person a blond and a blond a black.the social version do everything it can in order for making generation after generations of humans believe that heterosexuality and homosexuality are too separated different physical entities.this happens because it doesn’t want to acknowledge that each sex,different in composition,structure and functions have their own “home-made”(LOL)sexuality.i called that of males sodomy and that of females,lesbianism.this sexuality is emitted or given to any mind that absorbs it and become neurally excited.a couple is sexually non deviant PHYSICALLY(not SOCIALLY),when input equals output,or what is given equals what is recieved.the diffrence between a woman that practice sodomy and a male that practice it too,is that the male is able to “sodomize”.he creates it,he is able to “transmit” its own mental”symptoms”(information content) to others nervous systems “receptive” to it,and most importantly he is conscious and aware that this is possible.this is not the case with the female, she absorbs it but can’t emit it ,she emits information related to lesbianism.this discrepancy exist in opposite structure anti-couples.this is their UNIVERSAL psycho-physical condition.
Hilarious
@gilber: There are naturally blonde black people out there. Just saying.
kvitka
Homophobia is a result of sexist-machist stereotypes.
jeffree
Anyone else think this thread has been taken over by some strange evil force ? 😀
gilber
i said that the social programing has many schemes, stereotypes are another form of emotional programing.this social version is aggressive toward same sex bonds,it creates institutions that promotes heterosexuality and homosexuality as two distinct entities.indeed ,it builds false a scheme in which it is very easy to fall.it is based on the wrong assumption that they are only two sexualities, heterosexuality,which is pure(non-hybrid) and homosexuality,which divides in two,sodomy and lesbianism.heterosexuals are supposed to be according to this scheme, non cross-gender and “”non cross-sexual””.homosexuals are all cross-genders and cross-sexual(deviants).this is the schemes built by the social theory and their artificial and misleading definitions that passes as physical truths.homosexuals don’t realize that many times they argue about sexuality,they are actually using this very social schemes,the one in which ALL prejudices and stereotypes are based on,even homosexuals have fell into this illusory scheme.an actual physical translation of what i said before would be,that heterosexuals,the way society wants them, are supposed to be non cross-gender and cross-sexual.homosexuals however, are never cross-sexual, but sometimes they can be cross-gender,and as i said, there is a spectrum of “absorbances” related to bisexuality along the cross sexual type,and many variances along the cross gender one,going from mild effeminate gestures or
“gay voice” to full and complete transgenderism.
Truth
@Jadis: Jadis, I’m not wrong on this. This young woman clearly got memo that went out to Miley, Christina, Rihanna and Amy Winehouse who all revealed their bisexuality. This is purely a stunt. She’s lying and it’s despicable. PR agents and managers are fielding the question, “how can bisexuality increase my client’s visibility and profits?” I’m there. I hear it. I see it. I know it.
As for Bisexuality, it is truly the biggest lie in the gay community. Any man or woman that tells me they are bisexual is lying. They’ve lied to themselves and are convinced of something that doesn’t exist within themselves. Here’s the reason… the sexual criteria for sexual attraction to males is completely different for women. As much as men would like to admit that sex is purely physical, it’s not. and any woman can tell you that. They can dabble and have fun with the same or opposite sex but there’s nothing there that will define their sexual orientation as Bisexual. I speak the truth and if you search your heart you’ll know that I’m right.
missanthrope
@ Jason @ #62
“The GLBT community needs to be more discerning in how it treats women – especially in the entertainment industy – who claim to be lesbians or bisexual. This is necessary because women are known to use their sexuality as a ploy rather than as a genuine expression of their inner selves.”
OH, I see, you’re a misogynist, not biphobic. Gotta keep all those wimins from being all slutty and their dangerous sewxulaity under control, or else we might eat you with our vaginas or something. Thanks letting us know that dude.
“One of my best friends is a genuine bisexual female, by the way.”
Ummmm…..so she has a very poor taste in friends. Why are you telling us this?
missanthrope
Gilber, all of your posts read like a sexology book written in the 1920s. Lay off the nostalgia or what ever crack you’re smoking. The freudian bullshit you’re posting is very busted.
jason
I don’t doubt that sleazy agents are telling female entertainers to say “I’m bisexual”. No doubt at all. It’s a grubby ploy designed to appeal to men who are homophobic towards the concept of GLBT rights in general. It is NOT gay-friendly.
kvitka
Jayson is not misogonist. But double standards which are imposed by show-business for heterosexual men are opposite to him! To me too. I am not against female bisexuality. But why we are not talking about male bisexuality? It is necessary to advance already now, while not late else, while definitively it was not fixed about neglect to romantic and sexual relations between men.
In Antiquity homophobia was not present, because all men were bisexual. I think necessary to reflect!
jeffree
If you don’t know much English, like Kvitka and Gilber, just save time & write in your native tongue. We don’t read what you say because it’s nonsense, inconsistent with reality, and no one cares. Except Jason.
Textual analysis software indicates that Jason now has used between 15 and 21 sock puppets since May 1! Very impressive!
Ash
Don’t you find all this bashing of women who claim to be bi a bit hypocritical seeing as many gay celebs pretend to be straight throughout their careers?
gilber
Freudian theories hahahaha? isn’t it because of Freud that homosexuals are called sexual deviants and homosexuality a perversion even today? again,prove me wrong,prove me that the mechanisms i described are wrong and can’t physically happen under any conditions.write on a piece of paper a square,on each side draw different geometric figures,choose one of those figures and draw it inside the square.color each figure with different colors.then connect them the following way,the red one emits read line and absorbs the blue from is neighbor,and the blue absorbs the red line from the red.you should see each square connected to each other by “double bonds” of different colors,except one, the isomorphic pair.if you think that this little drawing is meaningless you are out of your fking mind,it tells many many things,as long as you have the skills to interpret the network, rightly.specially when you start erasing figures from each side of the square and you leave only three,the one in the middle, its homologous and another dissimilar figure.
kvitka
??, ??? ?????? ??????? ?? ???? ??????????? ? ????????????!!!=))))
???????, ??? ?? ???, ????????? ?????! ?????? ?????? ????? ????????? ? ?? ?????????? ??, ??? ??? ??????…??????? ?? ??????-?????-????? ? ??? ????? ? ?? ???, ??????? ??? ???? ??????????, ? ?????????! ???? ???????? ????? ?????????? ???? ??????? ????????? ?? ?????? ????? ?? ?????????, ????????! ?? ???-????????, ?? ???? ???????????? ????????? ??????! ??????. ????? ????? ??? ?? ? ?? ?????????, ? ?? ?? ?????????! ??? ?????????, ???! ????? ?? ???!!
????, ????????, ?? ?? ??? ? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???????. ??? ?? ??????????? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ? ?? ? ????????? ???????? ??? ????????? ?????! ?.?.
gilber
jeffree i would cut my hand and bet that you are just another reincarnation of counterpoll and james,you do use the same exact phrases.isn’t interesting? and yes i do acknowledge that i do not check my grammar AT ALL.not only that,at least jason says interesting things ,whether you agree with him or not is your fcking problem,you have a looooong record of bitching in this site.as i said looong time ago i do not expect people to agree with me,in fact, i know for sure they will disagree in many many thing i say.it’s the way we are programmed to be.the truth is the truth and has to be exposed,……whether your virgin ass want it of NOT.(LOL)
missanthrope
“Freudian theories hahahaha? isn’t it because of Freud that homosexuals are called sexual deviants and homosexuality a perversion even today”
Actually he said that all people are bisexual (in the sense of incoporating aspects of both sexes on the level of gender, not just sexuality) and that homosexuality and heterosexuality were developed from that basic desposition.
As for being a “homophobic”, Freud also wrote:
“Homosexuality is assuredly no advantage, but it is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation; it cannot be classified as an illness; we consider it to be a variation of the sexual function, produced by a certain arrest of sexual development”
Certainly homopobic, but he wasn’t calling people “deviants” nor was he a raging homopobe. But he was still messed up.
Anyway, if you’re paper folding thing works for you, all the more power to you. But early sexologists thought that homosexuality (and bisexuality) was really a question of gender, which sounds like the gibberish you’re talking about.
Amy
I agree with the other posters it is SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE for a beautiful woman to declare she is bisexual. It is trendy! Anna Paquin and now Vanessa Carlton give me a break! When an A list male star says he’s bisexual or some male actor says he’s gay THEN I will take notice.
swarm
@ #99 Hilarious Right #teamIDGAF
LMAO. Vanessa has a NEW ALBUM OUT and she announced at Nash Pride that “Who’s To Say” is dedicated to LGBT.
Whoops, pronoun fail last phrase:
Who’s To Say:
And you say we’re too young, but maybe you’re too old to remember
And I try to pretend, but I just feel it when we’re together
Who is to say?
And who is to say?
And who are they anyway?
Stand up ******boy*******, I shine so bright when you’re around
Yeah, ok bb. Note to fauxmos and others: Sexual fantasy, experimentation and recreation doesn’t make you bi. It makes you part of the majority. j/s.
gilber
what the fck are you saying,how do you dare to twist what i wrote? i never said that homosexuality is related to gender on the contrary.moreover that all people are bisexuals that the biggest lie i ever heard ,no wonder i find Freud to be a fraud.nonetheless, be 100% sure of this,that EVERYBODY has the potential to be homosexual and can prefer to belong sexually and emotionally to some one who they NATURALLY belong to.however,that you do not choose in what range your receptors are able to absorbs and excite is totally not one’s own choice.as i said there is a spectrum, and in the language of physics,this means absorbances.and no i don’t pretend to give a lecture of neurophysiology here.
Jadis
@gilber: See here for more information.
@Truth: I speak the truth and if you search your heart you’ll know that I’m right
I get people knocking on my door telling me stuff like that.
Jadis
Stupid Queerty CMS, http://www.timecube.com.
D'oh, The Magnificent
a) Female bisexuality is accepted more in society due to straight men fantasy.
b) That doesn’t mean this artist is faking it. Maybe it really is who she is. I am not going to judge her not know anything than her announcement.
c) Its true that some claim bisexuality as a way to get attention. BUT, we don’t know that’s the case here and it should not be assumed
d) Male bisexuality is not as accepted in our society. That’s just true. However, this grows out of the same sex part. Not the different sex part. I know that a bisexual male is a whole person. I have friends who are bi. I making point about the part that defines the discrimination in society. Not just how it makes someone feel to hear that someone is bi. BUt the substantive actions that others take to harm someone such denial of job, etc. For that to occur, its the same sex part that’s attacked. I will give an example. a friend that I lost touch with, but last I checked was bi. He married a girl. She seemed nice. Everyone thought he was now “straight” on the straight side of his relationships. On the gay side, since he never hid it- despite claims here- I noticed that no one gave a shit. Most people were cool with it because again he never hid it and we saw him date both men and women so it seemed legit rather than just something he was saying as a transition.
e) I wish people would realize how complicated the subject they are talking about is. There are so many variables. Some of them personal. Some social. Some are really designed to find one’s place. Some are designed to deny what one is. Trying to suss that out is complicated.
That’s all I have to say.
Glósóli
@swarm: You shoud do some research before talking out of your a** and start throwing accusations. Vanessa DOES NOT have a new album out, and probably won’t until next year. “Who’s to Say” is from her 2004 album “Harmonium”, I doubt she’ll release it as a single targeting a gay audience SIX YEARS LATER.
jason
Stop making excuses for female bisexual attention whores. Under no circumstances should they be accepted by the GLBT community. Tell them to fuck off.
We don’t want our precious movement sullied by skanky whores whose commitment to GLBT rights is next to zero. Keep in mind the important fact that these skanks are often hanging off a strictly straight guy’s arm whenever they’re seen out in public. They often refuse to have any sexual relationship whatsoever with bisexual men.
It’s disappointing to see some women on this board making excuses for these sub-moronic skanks. Girls, learn to discern. There are things in this life that are good for our movement and there are things that are bad for it. Learn to discern.
If you don’t wish to discern, then you also have no right to make commentary that is clearly counter-productive to the advancement of our rights.
jason
Ash,
Gay men pretend to be straight due to oppression by straights.
Women often claim to be bi in order to accommodate oppressive straights, especially straight men.
One is due to oppression and the other reflects accommodation. They are two different things and it is preposterous to even compare one with the other.
jason
The problem with the gay community in America is that it fails to be discerning. This reflects a lack of intelligence or it reflects excessive political correctness. Either way, it’s harming our GLBT movement.
I read on another gay news site where the male editor congratulated Carlton. He didn’t question the bisexual double standard, he didn’t ask why only female entertainers were declaring their bisexuality, and not male. He just went ahead and congratulated her.
We deserve much better than self-proclaimed gay advocates and their failure to discern issues.
Ash
@jason: Nah, because either way they are trying to sell themselves to a certain market. They are still lying in order to make people buy their products.
kvitka
It is necessary to advance male bisexuality at all possible levels. It will solve a problem of a segregation of gay guys and bi guys.
Truth
@Jadis: Taking a part of my statement and spinning it to make it something it’s NOT, is similar to republican psychopaths on cable news channels…
Don’t compare me to religious zealots, I’m gay and proud of it. I’m just in the minority of GLT peoples who feel that bisexuality is NOT an orientation.
Adora
I am agree with Kvitka. I am straight girl and I like gay sex and bisex guys. Many other women too.
jeffree
We now go from nine kinds of crazy to twelve. Congrats Queeeerty, you have broken a record! But i still lurve u!
jason
You should never ever judge human sexuality from the voyeurism angle. Human sexuality should always be judged by the worth of the experience to the participants, and not by the benefit it might give to a third party (or voyeur). The opinion of the third party is irrelevant. We must never succumb to it.
I think the reason why American sexual culture has succumbed to the opinion of the voyeur is due to the fact that America’s sexual culture is heavily influenced by porn, which is a heavily voyeuristic paradigm.
Keep in mind that, in a completely permissive society, porn prevails and, therefore, it is male heterosexual fantasy which is ascendant. Under this system, only “hot lesbians” and “hot female bisexuals” get social approval. In contrast, all gay and bi men get treated like lepers and are demonized at every turn.
Even non-hot lesbians and non-hot female bisexuals benefit from this degree of social permissiveness. However, and I stress this again, no gay man or bisexual man benefits from it.
kvitka
Jason, you are right. Straight porn industry makes double standarts in homophobia.
What about porn with bisex guys for straight girls! Many girls like this very much! (In my generation 18-25 years). Not only porn. TV – serials, films, musiciants and many others. It is necessary to help for men to cease to hesitate of the own gay impulses!
We can answer!
gilber
jadis i see what you meant, but this has nothing to do with the physical mechanisms that I said control heterophilia, opposites interact but it doesn’t mean that such interactions are not subject to psychophysical laws, and other parameters such emission/absorption, excitation, vibrations, signal processing and information transfer, it is complicated, but in most process, systems from orbital to energy states, from molecules to even humans, generally “like bonds with like”. the idea that opposites attract has been used by heterosexuals for promoting cross-sexuality. notice that my definitions are NOT the same as the social ones, as we know them. As I said, homosexuality have psychophysical properties that are inherent in it, such as symmetry, parity, unity, harmony, balance, mutuality, equilibrium, isomorphism, extensionality, continuity, co-naturality, co-essentiality, first order relation etc, these properties could also be found in heterogeneous mixtures but the properties of the involved systems becomes “distributed” or “mixed” and are usually pseudo types when compared to the genuine physical conditions that we are experiencing. electrical charges attract each other ,but while this is occurring the positive charge absorbs the negative and the negative the positive one, until they neutralize each other if they are equals, moreover, polarity and charges are also a property of homologous couples and lesbian-gay males interactions. it is just that heterogeneous ones had them more amplified, than we do, since we posses unity, which is equal to 1, and that’s a very important margin in mathematical modeling. you can’t create something out of nothing. homosexuality is the mental backbone of heterosexuality. homosexuality(both bond’s excitations) is contained in heterosexuality, of course ,modified, but heterosexuality is not a property of homosexuality. in other words, by logical rule ,if you are a so called heterosexual you must be at least di-sexual but never mono-sexual which is a property of homologous coupling,only. di-sexuality, when it is present on a couple, means that you give to your partner a sexuality of one type and you receive another different one. heterosexuals ,as you might have realized are in a divided state and need bonding and extensionality, of course they should praise their conditions, as long as they let us enjoy ours, which they don’t. if you notice, the more asymmetric they are, the less they belong to each other, and the most difficult for them to “adopt” each other sexuality as theirs. asymmetric reproduction give the heterosexuals energy, they have come to believe that homosexuals can’t reproduce or that we don’t have the power to do such a thing, but this is not naturally true, we can reproduce the same way they do, asymmetrically, except that we enjoy co-parenting. the heterosexual agenda is powerful and homosexuals are experiencing first hand psychophysical sexual deviant mechanisms not only in this realm but in many others, and imposed on us. the reason that this poor guy writes all this stupidities is because he is praising disparity and asymmetry (his MAXIMUM or astral ASCENDANT),we should also praise ours, which is beautiful. he also feels very masculine, which I wouldn’t. there is a part in which he said that sexually inverted couples are made of opposites HALVES (a psychophysical homosexual property), this is just another example that proves what i have been explaining here. homosexuals should ideally reproduce by a pair of females with another pair of males, father and co-father, mother and co-mother. i hope that one day instead of surrogacy homosexuals adopt this way of parenting. the heterosexual agenda wants to “heterosexualize” same sex couples. in fact it is because of things like this, that this poor pseudo-homosexual wrote, that homosexuals need to understand and revise the differences between physical sexual inversion/deviancy and the social/behavioral definition of it.
DR (the real one, not the guy who made post #12)
@jason: I agree with that post, and I never agree with you. But you’re right about the impact porn is having on our culture and the impact it has on how we view sexuality.
Shalfey
Kvitka,great idea!!!
missanthrope
“I’m just in the minority of GLT peoples who feel that bisexuality is NOT an orientation.”
Yeah, you’re queer and a bigot, who gives a fuck?
Truth
@missanthrope: There it is. I’ve been waiting for that to be thrown at me. Well, this interesting. I’ve donated time and money to the GLT issues. and the one time I happen to express dissent about a belief which I’m not alone on having, I’m called a bigot.
This kind of militant cohesive thought, “you’re either with us or against us!” is endemic of the evil republicans instead of enlightened liberals. It’s pathetic. Who gives a fuck? well I do. Because quite frankly, nothing is perfect. readily accepting ideas and thoughts without question is idiotic and unbecoming of intelligent people.
and if you’re such “missanthrope” then what are you doing commenting on an message board?
missanthrope
“and if you’re such “missanthrope” then what are you doing commenting on an message board?”
Keeping moral cowards like you who hide behind “keeping an open mind” in check.
But yeah, you wouldn’t tolerate people questioning or “not believing in” your sexuality, yet you expect a bi person to do the same because “i’m not alone in having those ideas”. A lot of people agree with Pat Robertson, yet it doesn’t make him any less wrong than he….and you yourself are.
Anyway have fun hiding behind the same old excuses and double talk that bigots of any sort use and other “enlightened liberals” trade in. I’ve said all I have to say to you.
D'oh, The Magnificent
@Truth: The problem with your comment is that you can’t possibly know what you are saying is true or not. Its not ultimately something you can prove outside of your own emotional belief systems. I don’t think you are a bigot. Just ignorant of your own limitations. Many Americans are that way now a days. They assume that what they belief is truth when in fact its just what they believe. That’s why gays are often thought of as not a orientation but a life style because some people know in their hearts that we can’t possible really be attracted to men. THis is not about being PC. Its about the limitation of knowledge and the hubris of certainty. If you were to write some people are bi and some are not who claim to be bi- then I might agree with that. But making an absolute statement that you can’t possibly make is just ignorance masquerading as debate.
Truth
@missanthrope:
I believe bisexuality is not an orientation.
It does not make a bigot and I certainly don’t need to keep open minds in check. That’s not my responsibility and it’s certainly not yours. Calling me names because I hold an unpopular belief proves my point about militant liberal all or nothing nonsense. That’s the truly cowardly thing to do.
I disagree, so I’m Pat Robertson’s company. That is quintessential fatuity. Keep your sophistry to yourself.
@D’oh, The Magnificent:
dissenting psychologists have stated they don’t believe bisexuality is an orientation. I don’t need my own emotional belief systems to prove what researchers have concluded.
D'oh, The Magnificent
@Truth: @Truth: Dissenting psychologist also believe that they can cure gays or being homosexuals. Before 1972, they thought that being gay was a medical disease that needed treatment like shock to the genitalia.
Your argument is not a valid argument. Its appeal to authority. A logical fallacy. Reference their peer review research which proves their claims. Now, that’s proof. Pointing out that they exist doesn’t amount to proof. Again, your problem is logic versus belief.
More importantly, it would be hard for psychologist to discern this issue if its one of biology mixed with social constructions and psychology. Meaning, as I have said, this is complicated. Anyone pretending otherwise, from the bi activist trying to define all who have sex with either gender as bi to the deniers such as yourself- you want a simple answer where none exists.
D'oh, The Magnificent
@Truth: By the way, what I just said about complexity, especially regarding the science of sexuality, is true pretty much across the board for straight gay or bi. The truth is this is a new science that only recently has begun to be explored because for years the subject was taboo. My bio advisor in school would say when we discussed the issue that the truth is that sexuality is probably a complex of social, biological and psychological factors merged together in a sort of gestalt and figuring it out is going to be a complex undertaking. A quick example- the biology of lesbianism may be entirely different from the biology of homosexuality. I say maybe. Its not clear if that’s true or not. the point is, that i fit is true, it creates all sort of difficult questions about biology and social constructions and psychological understanding of sexuality and sexual orientation issues.
gilber
sexuality is not complicated at all,psychologists has no authority in this field.experiments are done by PHARMACOLOGISTS,the heterosexual agenda wants to make sexuality looks like a complicated issue ,when it is really not.it is interesting to note that even when homosexuality is no longer considered by some associations of psychologists as a mental sickness,it is still viewed as a deviant sexuality,my ass is tired of reading papers in pharmacology referring to sexual behavior as masculine,feminine or normal, when dealing with rats.i work in this field and i know its jargon pretty well it is controlled by the way heterosexuals want to interpret results.human sexuality is not the same as animal sexuality. insemination and sexuality are two completely distinct things in humans.all psychological theories are meant to reinforce the social version schemes and definitions.you will never see any research referring to heterosexuals as sexual inverts, a heterosexual male that has tendency the lick vaginal secretions is considered masculine whereas masculine homosexual males are feminine.this is not physical AT ALL, this is a social label rewarding behavior.i’m 100% sure that if we were to isolate human males from females,neither heterosexuality nor cross-genderism could occur,homosexuality can exist under any condition, it is not restraint by environment,it is restraint by culture.social constructions have nothing to do with physical mechanisms,if you and you “other half” have a sexual dimorphism index of 50,then you are both awfully inverts of each other.now if they have the POWER to twist their psychophysical conditions and claim that they are not inverts,then we are in trouble.one masculine homosexual male and another masculine heterosexual male are opponents,they want to make their opponent feel effeminate ,the homosexual male proceeds to bind him to a female,then force him to absorb,the heterosexual male do the contrary,he binds his opponent to another male and makes him absorb.they both claim that they managed to completely destroy its opponent masculinity the question is,which of the two opponents actually got to PHYSICALLY effeminate its opponent? which of the two opponents were successful in SOCIALLY feminizing his opponent?
Desdemona
@gilber: What the hell are you talking about?
vanessa carlton is bi. ok?
thanks for the … support vanessa? i don’t know whether to be happy or upset about this. on one hand, i say oh good… sexual liberation for all is on the way and another famous singer just joined our team…. and on the other hand, i just think this is a marketing ploy of hers to appeal to the gay market and/or become more relevant and WHY is it all these female celebrities coming out as bi? Because the world is still so patriarchal. I guess it exposes that fact, but does it do anything to change it? I’m not so sure.
Alegna
@jason: Jason, dating a bisexual man does not in anyway validates one’s bisexuality. As a bisexual woman, I have never dated a bisexual man and honestly do not want to. That has nothing to do with my own sexuality. If it happens to be that my boyfriend tells me he is bisexual after us dating, I wouldn’t break up with him for it. However, I wouldn’t start dating him if I knew before. A double standard? Yes, it is and I can’t help it. The sexual orientation of who I date does not indicate my sexual orientation. I am just not attracted to bisexual men. Yet, I like men and women the same. The question in this scenario is whether or not Vanessa’s “coming out” is a publicity ploy or not. I do agree that a lot of celebrities do claim to be bisexual just for the attention factor. That doesn’t mean she has to date a bisexual man to prove she is bisexual. The meaning of bisexuality is that you are attracted to men and women, not that you are attracted to men who are bisexual.
Kate
Good for her. After reading these comments (the ones that were actually written with some grasp of the English language), I have a few thoughts.
I am bisexual. It is a real orientation. I am a female. I belong in the LGBT community, even though sometimes I think I don’t (haven’t come out to a lot of people, haven’t had significant relationships with women, have had more experience with men, haven’t faced much discrimination, etc.) I can’t speak for all bisexuals, but something tells me most of them are like me: sexually attracted to both genders. And guess what? Not all bisexual person will be in the middle of the Kinsey scale. Some are “more homosexual” or “more heterosexual”, but they know that, since they are attracted to both men and women (and possibly those of other gender expressions), they are indeed bisexual. Do I really have to explain that to anyone, in this day and age, on a LGBT website? Crazy.
Do some people call themselves bisexual for disingenuous reasons? Sure. Do some people do it for attention or approval from various patriarchal sources? Sure. But a lot don’t. We “want it both ways”? Since when is that a bad thing? We have a different road to walk than straights or gays/lesbians. Not always harder, not always easier, just different. Apples and oranges. Maybe it is because I AM a bisexual, but why is it so hard to believe that a person could be attracted to men and women? Even if I wasn’t, I think I’d still understand that simple concept.
Vanessa Carlton is not an attention-seeking “media whore” (what a gendered concept!) If you knew anything of her, you’d know that. I enjoy her music, although it’s not my favorite. She seems very genuine. If people looked at my life, they might say the same things: “Her main relationships are with men, so she can’t be bisexual.” You’re not in my head- you don’t know to whom I’m attracted to, what I fantasize about, what I want to do. Many people realize they’re straight or gay long before they ever even kiss someone- like in their early teens. It’s stupid to tell them they’re not what they are, just because they haven’t found the right person with whom to act upon their orientation yet. Only they can know.
And furthermore, I haven’t really had a serious relationship with ANYONE since 2007. A lot of people don’t have big, public, serious relationships. Furthermore, as a bisexual, I don’t have to date other bisexuals. I could only date lesbians and straight men, and still be a “valid” bisexual. (If I discriminated against other bisexuals, it might make me a hypocritical bisexual, but still bisexual.)
Also, it’s not her fault that she receives a certain degree of privilege as a *female* bisexual. That’s society’s fault. Welcome, Vanessa! 🙂
Christi
Hmmm…is Vanessa Carlton really bisexual? I don’t know. But from what I’ve read of the comments thus far, that isn’t really even the issue here. I’m seeing a lot of prejudice toward bisexuality in general, and coming from a GLBT community, that is more than a little upsetting.
I am a bisexual woman. I have been in relationships with both men and women. However, admittedly there have been more men in my life, for two very particular reasons. For one thing, there are considerably more men who are into women than there are women who are into women. That’s simply a factor of numbers. There is also the fact, as I’ve witness being stated by many gays and lesbians, that they would not consider a bisexual person as a potential mate, for whatever reason. This has been heartbreaking for me, as well as many other bisexuals I’ve known. There has been more than one occasion that I have been getting to know a wonderful woman, only to have things quickly broken off as soon as my bisexuality was known to her, as if I could not truly be with her because I had the ability to be attracted to men. These instances are far too common.
I do understand that, particularly with women, bisexuality has become something of a trend, a way to attract attention from men. However, it is a bit unjust to write off all bisexuals simply because some claiming the title are frauds. Do you not see how this is exactly the same type of thinking that those against homosexuality in general profess? It is difficult for bisexuals to fit in to either group, gay or straight, due to misconceptions from both sides.
To cast judgement on Vanessa, or ANYONE for that matter, without having anything to go on aside from pure speculation is no better than what these bigots denying rights to ALL of us GLBT folk do. The big issue here is that many people state that they have only ever seen her with men. Have you forgotten how hard it is for some people to come out? Sure, the media is going to be mostly accepting, and her straight male fans will be ecstatic. But what about her friends? Her family? She is still a person despite being famous. I had nothing but accepting friends, but it still took me years to come out because of the prejudices of much of my family. Have we forgotten how hard that can be? I think many people in the GLBT community are not any more tolerant than those we fight for our rights against everyday. I hate seeing this kind of hypocrisy.