A new report in the Journal of Health and Social Behavior scientifically verifies what we all already know– that the gay community’s obsession with beauty has consequences. Researchers at the University of Toronto interviewed dozens of gay men to determine what qualities were considered most desirable and found “that young, white, middle-class men are considered much more sexually desirable than men who are racial minorities, over 40 and poor” and that “for gay men, being considered sexually undesirable can have serious health consequences, ranging from psychological issues to risky sexual behavior.” The study notes that gay men are more likely to engage in risky sexual behavior if they consider their partner more attractive. (UPI)
‘Undesirable’ Gay Men Have Riskier Sex
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jr
completely ridiculous findings for this study! go to any after-hours gay club in america and around the world, and no matter what they look like, their financial situation, their age, their color, at 4am…they are not making clear decisions. i’m guilty of it, and so are all of my friends, and every gay guy that i’ve known. no need to blame something, but to say that someone is undesirable compared to a young, rich mucle guy is so stupid. who ran this study, paris hilton?
Alan down in Florida
“The study notes that gay men are more likely to engage in risky sexual behavior if they consider their partner more attractive.”
Those of us “undesirables” are more likely to engage in risky sexual behavior because that is where the only opportunities usually are.
hardmannyc
So the uglier you are, the more desperate you are to get laid.
They spent money to study this?
Smokey Martini
Also, is there any elaboration in this report of what constitutes ‘risky sexual behaviour’? I’d be interested to know.
Jeffrey Bryan
Bad study with dirty data and incorrect findings. It doesn’t take into consideration if the men had sex-ed as youths, and assumes desirability based on demographic data, not on physical beauty.
Cambo Soup
The operative word here is ‘riskier’.
Here is how see it though. ‘Desirable’ men will most likely have more sex, which means more partners. That is a risky behavior.
Undesired men will less likely have as much sex or partners, so when they snag a good one, they will take advantage of the situation or the man because who knows when the next hook up (with a hot one) is going to occur.
Judging from those statements, I feel the riskier behavior is having more sex with many more partners. But that is personal bias on me part.
There are so many flaws and unwanted inferences you can make with this study such as if you’re not white, poor and over 40, you’re a walking incubator of diseases!
Lance
Some of the responses above really scare me and show how blatantly oblivious many gay men are when it comes to these issues. It’s really easy to say a study like this one is bogus if you haven’t experienced it yourself. This study wasn’t conducted in the context of a bar setting so the “4am-lack of decision making” comment has no merit. I can tell you as a person of color that theses results ring clear to me. The gay community is plagued with a crazy amount of ageism, an obsession with physical perfection and an overwhelming love for young white guys. If you don’t meet this mold, you are considered less desirable….and may be more likely to engage in risky sexual behavior because of feelings of low self esteem and isolation. Just look at every magazine…. always white dudes, every television show, everything associated with being gay is usually white male oriented. If you are person of color or older, tough shit. The gay community has a long way to go….I’d argue that there is more racism and ageism than in the larger society.
Just take a look at the rising HIV rates among young gay black men, i.e. “the undesirables”-I may not be able to articulate this as well as I would like to…check this out- I think it makes it pretty clear:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93351129
Smokey Martini
Those are my impressions, too, Cambo.
It does seems like risky sexual behaviour involves foregoing ‘condom use’ and ‘safe-sex discussion’ out of desperation. But I’m curious know how, exactly, the researchers recruited their participants and made their conclusions about the Undesirables category. Because, of course, this study would be deeply flawed if it looked only at the preferences of gay men who just so happened to be at particular bar in Toronto the night the researchers decided to do their study.
GAH! WHERE CAN I GET A HOLD OF THIS STUDY?!?
In any case, I’d also be interested to know which department(s) at the University of Toronto initiated this study. I know for a fact there is a Sexual Diversity Studies department there, but I have a feeling it wasn’t this one.
Smokey Martini
@Lance:
And you’re right, Lance. There IS an alarming amount of racism and ageism (and weight-ism) in the gay community. Toronto, as elsewhere.
However, I have a feeling that much of the frustration above comes from the fact that active members of the gay community (or at least Queerty readers) have known for quite some time that such discrimination exists ââŹâ and apparently so ââŹâ when it comes to seeking out a sexual partner. And, yes, everyone is well aware of the behavioral implications of this discrimination – which becomes manifested in (mis)perceptions about bathhouse culture, public sex, and which people engage in these forms of activity.
What is frustrating is that the findings are being presented as groundbreaking research NOW in the context of an otherwise heteronormative, white, academic (aka ‘elite’) journal. The question becomes: was a study REALLY necessary to find this out? And, most importantly, what good will a publication of these findings do for the gay community?
Ray
this is sure to open a pandora’s box on queert…
chgo921
@hardmannyc: Not sure if you intended it to sound this way, but you seem to confirm the conclusion of the study. The study says “that young, white, middle-class men are considered much more sexually desirable than men who are racial minorities, over 40 and poor”. You equate “undesirable” in terms of the study as “ugly”. Maybe you were one of the respondents???
I’m a bit confused, however, by the synopsis posted of the study — or maybe the study itself. When I first started reading I thought the study would conclude that people who feel “undesirable” have more (hence, riskier) sex with people just to have sexual contact since they may not be in a relationship. However, the last line of the post says “undesirable” people have riskier sex when they consider their partner to be more attractive. If you feel “undesirable” but you have a partner (and one who is considered “attractive” to boot), doesn’t that mean that you’re NOT undesirable? Doesn’t someone have to find you desirable to be in a relationship with you? (I know there are many reasons for relationships, but in general most couple find each other physically and emotionally attractive.)
Having said this, I’m reminded of an unscientific study a friend did on Craig’s List. He posted two similar ads, one indicating that he’s African-American and the other omitted his race. He got responses to the post that omitted his race and didn’t get any responses to the post that included it.
seitan-on-a-stick
All the hot guys are Poz?
latebrosus
“…racial minorities, over 40, and poor”…what th–?! I’m effin’ two out of three! No wonder my bed’s so cold at night.
blake
@Lance:
Lance,
I agree with you. On the recent Morning Goods posting that featured Brazilian Edilson Nasciemento, a commenter named Michael W. berated Queerty for including an “Affirmative Action” choice. Michael W. then continued to state that how much more desirable “wholesome,” “white flesh” than that of people of color.
Similarly, I’m sure that these results could be extrapolated in general to those deemed undesirable in other demographic settings, like women. Haven’t other studies pointed out that the rate of anorexia and other eating disorders are higher in countries with greater media distribution of images that crystalize a standard of beauty unattainable by most?
chuck
>”The study notes that gay men are more likely to engage in risky sexual behavior if they consider their partner more attractive. (UPI)”
Do the gay blame trips and gay mea cuplas ever stop?
Like straight men do not engage in risky sexual behavior if they consider their partner more attractive? D’oh.
Btw, do you beat your wife (or boyfriend) often?
hardmannyc
“The gay community is plagued with a crazy amount of ageism, an obsession with physical perfection and an overwhelming love for young white guys.”
So’s the straight world. It’s unfortunate, but that’s the way of this lousy, imperfect world.
Lance
@blake:
Blake, I’ll have to check out this scary Morning Goods response from Michael W. Although his response is frightening, I find it more alarming that he could make such statements so easily. Michael’s statements clearly reflect the results of the study, and further represent this notion of white male beauty dominance within the community.
I agree that these results could be applied to the hetero-world but would argue that they are heightened in the gay world, simply because it is a smaller community, and we are all fighting for whatever amount of power we can obtain….particularly in a world that blatantly demonizes and discriminates against us.
Don’t even get me started on heightened rates of anorexia/bulimia based on media distribution…..I was just reading about how eating disorders are on the rise in the gay world, even though gay men are already twice as likely to suffer from a eating disorder vs that of their hetero counterparts.
Lance
@chgo921: check this out:
http://www.sexualracismsux.com
steve
lol
this morning’s goods are evidence of what constitutes “beauty” in the gay world – yet that guy does nothing for me
that aside, i did my riskiest & downright stupid shit in my early 20’s, when i was looking best
late 30’s now & not wealthy, yet not sticking my dick in any available hole – “undesirable” & living smarter (??)
different strokes i guess – i’m running opposite to these research results
chuck
The following is a politically correct statement in the year 2008.
>”The study notes that gay men are more likely to engage in risky sexual behavior if they consider their partner more attractive. (UPI)”
In my time, it was stated in this manner.
“A stiff prick has no conscience.” đ
scott
interesting.
i think there are a number of reasons why people engage in risky behavior.
i’ll say this much, i think i was more “desirable” than my last BF physically (altho neither of us were fugly), and we both engaged in risky behavior together. what does that mean? i didn’t engage in risky behavior because he was more attractive, it was for other reasons.
i’d like to see more of the study. what was the makeup of the people polled, minorities or white people. I feel that there are factors that might not be taken into consideration.
Adam
The study can be found in the Journal of Health and Social Behavior, December.
L.P.
I’m kind of conflicted about my opinions on this. I am 19 years old, Mexican (with very anglo features, though), a college student and model (to pay for college, nothing serious, so don’t go saying I’m a wannabe… I don’t take it seriously), but I don’t find too much racism in my “profession” or even in the gay community. Obviously it exists, but not to the level that is being implied here. Also, for those who considered many sexual partners to be risky behavior, what constitues “many sexual partners?” Since I’ve been sexually active (3 years), I’ve had 49 partners, only 40 of which involved penetration. Mathematically that works out to a little over a partner a month. In my opinion, one partner a month is not a lot. Is this risky behavior if I’m always careful? I’m in a relationship right now, so I guess right now this doesn’t concern me too much, but it’s interesting, no? Still, it makes sense. I’ve been with guys who have low self esteem and actually ask if I want to fuck, or be fucked, bareback… NEVER. A person with low self esteem will do whatever to make someone like them, even if it risks their health. I don’t know. I kind of don’t have a real opinion on this.
Pragmatist
@hardmannyc:
No way. The straight world is NOTHING like the gay male world in terms of obsession with age, race, and physical perfection. In this community, 35 is is “old” and visible abdominal separation is almost a prerequisite to being considered attractive. Our community is brutally judgmental, at times inhumanly so. (I’ve observed the difference time and again between the straight and gay “worlds”, because I’m bisexual. When is the last time you heard a girl reject a guy on the grounds that “I don’t date Asian rats”? As a white guy, I’ve overheard that *particular* vulgarity multiple times in West Hollywood bars.)
@jr:
Really? When you say “not making clear decisions” are you referring to engaging in unsafe sex? Very few of my friends admit to having done that, but I’ve always suspected they might be airbrushing the truth. But, honestly, what is so difficult about setting and observing boundaries — even at 4am? Is unsafe sex REALLY that common?
@L.P.:
I’m glad that you haven’t experienced much racism! But, I have to say, the reason for that could be that you have the kind of physical features that allow you to model professionally. I have overheard gay guys say some of the most appalling things about other guys, and without any of the looking-over-one’s-shoulders shame that any southern racist would have.
nikko
The gay world is it’s own worst enemy-and testimony.
Cambo Soup
@Pragmatist:
Wow, is that the kinds of things these white folks are saying behind my back? They can totally say they don’t date asians, but to include rats after the race…that’s harsh.
In the gay community, we are our worst enemy. We ask people (the heterosexual world) to accept us, but we don’t accept those from our own community.
I have this strong belief that preference (preference for certain races over another) amounts to racism. Everyone disagrees with me because no one wants to be called a racist. To me, if you prefer one race over another, you’re a racist. And you shouldn’t take offense to that.
I am a racist as well because I have certain racial preferences. It doesn’t make me a horrible person full of hatred. I just have a preference. đ
Jonathan
To write all my thoughts about this article would result in a lengthy essay, so I’ll just address the race issue, which is where this thread seems to be going:
Although legalized racism is fortunately in our country’s rearview mirror, racism still undeniably exists, engrained in our thoughts. It manifests itself throughout our society in job hiring, apartment rentals, and the way in which people of color are treated by store merchants and police – to name a few. Similarly, engrained racism also infiltrates our thoughts in terms of our choice of mates. Within every race there are undeniably attractive and unattractive individuals. To say that one is finds every person of a certain race unattractive is racism. When one has such a preference it is because one has negative associations with that race that are independent of particular individuals. Such negative associations supersede the beauty and positive attributes of particular individuals. Refusing to date any person of color really isn’t any different from refusing to hire any person of color, except that there’s no anti-discrimination law in place for choosing one’s mate. It is in these spaces – where the law doesn’t apply – that racism still lives and thrives. In order to eradicate it, we need to first admit its existence, which is hard for many whites because they often don’t perceive it and even hard for some people of color because they don’t want to believe it’s there.
Cambo Soup
@Jonathan:
Thanks, Jonathon. Give me 5 more hours and I still, probably, couldn’t write a more articulate commentary.
I agree with you on many points. First:
“To say that one is (sic) finds every person of a certain race unattractive is racism. When one has such a preference it is because one has negative associations with that race that are independent of particular individuals. Such negative associations supersede the beauty and positive attributes of particular individuals.”
There is a possibility that these negative associations could be based on stereotypes. One individual here has said that media plays a role to our racial perception, depicting one race being more aesthetically attractive than another. Such bias idea of beauty has taken over our gay community like a disease sickening the mind of individuals from person to person that a certain race is this or that.
Second:
“In order to eradicate it, we need to first admit its existence, which is hard for many whites because they often don’t perceive it and even hard for some people of color because they don’t want to believe it’s there.”
It will be difficult to eradicate racism in our community when no one has accepted its existence and has masked it with the term preference. Preference is not total exclusion. Consideration is available. In racism, there is no consideration, but full exclusion.
Pragmatist
@Cambo Soup:
Not all of us white guys are saying such abominable things! i do believe the number of gay men who would overtly say things like that is a small minority. What disturbs me is that we have the type of climate wherein you can make a statement like that, and then continue your evening with no social consequences. To be fair, though, I should point out that Southern California has some serious race relations issues… so perhaps what I’ve observed here is not representative.
On a related but trivial note, I waaaaaaaaay dig Asian men, and I have quite a few friends who do too! =) I personally think the typical physical characteristics are quite handsome, and so many Asian guys seem to have deep respect for their families, which is really sexy. So, yeah, please don’t think all us white guys are saying nasty things behind your back!
Michael W.
“I am 19 years old, Mexican (with very anglo features, though), a college student and model (to pay for college, nothing serious, so don’t go saying I’m a wannabeââŹÂŚ I don’t take it seriously), but I don’t find too much racism in my “profession” or even in the gay community.”
Lol, you’re probably a lightskinned pretty boy whose Mexican heritage can only be identified by your last name. How else do you think you made it in the modeling world?
It’s highly unlikely for you to experience any kind of “racism” (the word gay liberals use for minorities who get rejected for white boys). I don’t mess with Mexicans and even I’d probably give you my dick.
Chris
What makes you think he’d want it?
Sam
it’s great thing that in the gay community you can pass of your bigoted opinions, views and prejudices for “preferences”
Smokey Martini
Don’t think it doesn’t happen in the straight community, too, Sam. Not all straight men are fucking machines and, lo and behold, ‘preferences’ based on gender, race, age, etc are upheld on that side of town, too. Of course, given that in an ideal world everyone would be fucking everyone, perhaps it’s more appropriate to call them personal ‘restrictions’?
In any case, this also begs the question: to what extent can male homosexuality be considered bigotry/sexism against women? If we really wanted to we gay men could slip our dick into a woman and give her pleasure. We, too, could derive sensual pleasure from the friction that is generation by thrusting our dick inside a vaginal canal. Of course, not everyone gay guy is turned on by that. Some are. But we’re not exactly sure why that is. If anything, all this shows how utterly inexplicable and un-interested (as in ‘without an agenda’) personal erotics are. To call these preferences ‘sexist’ or ‘racist’ or ‘bigoted’ is a bit too extreme, if you ask me.
Sure, some of this ‘bigotry’ you speak of may be conditioned by the normalized ideas we’ve been exposed to in life (i.e. “jungle fever” being a product of your parents’ racism towards – and hence stigmatization – of black men; a distaste for Asian men a product of our culture’s de-sexualization of East Asian peoples), but it’s not fair to blame people for something that has been distilled within them for so long. Sure, you can blame them for not trying to expand their ‘preferences’. But if they try and end up not deriving any pleasure from it, then there’s not much else to be done. We shouldn’t hold it against them.
BramNash
You have to be amazed at the apologestcs above – attempting to draw a parallel between homosexuality and the “preferences” ideology. It’s apples and oranges. Men and women are different in sexual anatomy and function – NOT the case between two men of different ethnicities, heights, ages. To insinuate that differences between people in regards to those categories is as nuanced as the differences in regards to biological sex, is completely lubricious. I wonder which will happen first; gays claiming that homosexuality is just another preference, an idea that most gay people have adamantly opposed forever. No, it’s an “orientation” they say. Or will these “preferences” become the new “orientation”, where people start claiming to be “born” with an inclination to certain ages? Homosexuality as an important evolutionary feature is much more plausible than a trait that only allows young white “fit” guys to be seen as desirable (even in a friendship context) Equally implausible is that the trait would exist almost exclusively in white gay males, a phenomenon that actually exposes the undeniable truth of what’s happening here. Surely, I can’t be alone in thinking it a bit odd that unlike homosexuality which evenly and consistently crosses ethnic, age, size borders, this narrow physical “preference” driven social interaction (whereby certain “types” are off limits), is not distributed as evenly among the various populations. Why are white gay men disproportionately more likely to ONLY see other whites, beyond that, fit, young whites, as attractive? Something gives, and the cliche “it’s just a preference” is total BS. At worst, it’s pure unadulatreted bigotry or a culture of shalloweness serving as a mask/weaopn to hide insecurity/inferirotiy complex (it’s been my belief that gay male community uses “fitness” and beauty” as pacifiers) At best, it’s mindless sexual fetishism.
Michael
As a gay (white; only stating this as it applies to the discussion) 19 old college student who recently moved from Idaho, I havn’t really experienced alot of racial diversity within the gay community until recntly.
I really cannot say i have experienced this type of racism yet, but its sad that it exists đ I personally AM ATTRACTED to guys with darker skin, the guy i’m crushing on is latino and has really dark skin đ Bleh racism is stupid.