Stereotypes aren’t created out of nothing. Yes, there are tons of gay guys who lead fabulous, stylish lifestyles. They listen to Beyonce and Lady Gaga as they sip cocktails and travel the world from event to event. And good for them.
But when stereotypes are applied to a group as a whole, things get sticky.
No, not every gay man wants to go shopping with straight women, and no, we don’t all know who won Drag Race Season 4 (but come on, Sharon Needles).
Below, guys sound off on Whisper about the frustration they feel when people try to put them in a gay box:
How about we take this to the next level?
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Grant Mealey
We all have to find our own path ð???
Thomas Ross
Sounds like insecurity to me. Ultimately, we are responsible for how we are perceived as individuals.
Rick Rosio
who I choose to sleep with and share my life with should be a private issue and respected by those in my life. Common sense,compassion and civility are what is important in life… not being butch or fem or what-ever… Be kind and share laughter… and your life will improve …as your light will shine and others who share your passion will be attracted to you
n900mixalot
If they really don’t care what other people think why do they care SO MUCH about what other people think?! Who you are is YOUR business. No one else’s. So be who you are and quit complaining.
These guys fit the whiny gay victim stereotype and that transcends masc, fem, whatever. Quitcher bitchin’ and make life happen. Save the complaining for real issues.
Roee Moshe
But some gays are the living embodiment of these stereotypes – AND THAT IS ALSO OKAY!!!
Dennis Crowley
Bravo
dean3000
As for me I’m out I like the countryside I hate sports watch drag race sip martinis and recently installed a new bathroom with my own hands. And it’s not big deal. Why we have to deride men who are the cliche? Some of us are naturally feminine it’s a bit mysogonistic to deride feminine qualities. I’m sure some men mistake hating women for being gay. This ties in with the rise of the “gay” republican
Dusty Lee
Stereotypes are based on truth.
dean3000
@n900mixalot: agreed. These are people who define themselves by what they’re not. They are empty vessels without character
William Meyer
Every group of people has stereotypes.
Damon Robbins
Gay stereotypes are what kept me in the closet for 16 years.I did not identify with the flamboyant gay role models out there. I am a man who loves other men, my idea of fun is working on our cars,my partner and I did all the carpentry in the lower level of our home. We don’t watch Ru Paul’s Drag Show and we aren’t into Beyoncé.
Louie Mars
Sexual orientation is not a choice. Lifestyle, dress code, behavior is a choice.
Louis
I really wish people would stop doing stuff like this already it actually winds up insulting other people when they do as if to say theres something wrong with either or or they are BETTER then that.
Its ridiculous but congrats to their being authentic it doesn’t matter whether you shop love clothes play sports or are into the arts we are ALL different but what should yet NEVER fucking does bring us together is the hate and negativity that we have ALL experienced on this planet as LGBT americans.
Stop trying to distance yourself by claiming im not THAT TYPE of gay guy its insulting and its actually discriminatory in and of itself.
Be proud of who you are and what you love but don’t lessen another persons value as what they are simply because you don’t happen to be them or love what they love .
Louis
@Damon Robbins: While im happy for you you don’t have to insult others in order to accept yourself when you do that you actually wind up demeaning others in the process.
The word flamboyant has also been used for a long time in a derogatory and belittling manner especially within the LGBT community.
Its one thing to claim you like certain things its a whole other ball game though when you have to demean someone else in order to get that point across.
Louis
I also don’t understand why some gay guys like to demean women or claim they are more then that if a women likes to shop with you even if you aren’t even into that.
They are not trying to stereotype hell the fact is women for the most part are a hell of a lot more loving accepting and embracing of us as human beings then straight guys are.
hughhai
While I can agree that it is important to push back against stereotypes, I’d like to know how this article isn’t actually just reifying them. Even worse, by highlighting these men’s comments, it serves to devalue those who reject or simply do not resonate with the concept of masculinity as it is defined in Western culture. Until we stop feeding the privilege that being butch yields in our culture, then stereotypes will continue to be a tool for ridicule and oppression. While the memes above at first seem to be a rejection of gay stereotypes, they serve more as humblebragging to the effect of, “I pass for straight without really trying, and despite the privilege it gains me, I see it as a hassle.” Why is it so difficult to find articles that celebrate the spectrum of gay personalities instead of just the masculine ones. Answer: because queer men who write this stuff know that emulating straight men garners a certain amount of privilege in the practice.
Hugh Haiker
While I can agree that it is important to push back against stereotypes, Iâ??d like to know how this article isnâ??t actually just reifying them. Even worse, by highlighting these menâ??s comments, it serves to devalue those who reject or simply do not resonate with the concept of masculinity as it is defined in Western culture. Until we stop feeding the privilege that being butch yields in our culture, then stereotypes will continue to be a tool for ridicule and oppression. While the memes above at first seem to be a rejection of gay stereotypes, they serve more as humblebragging to the effect of, â??I pass for straight without really trying, and despite the privilege it gains me, I see it as a hassle.â? Why is it so difficult to find articles that celebrate the spectrum of gay personalities instead of just the masculine ones. Answer: because queer men who write this stuff know that emulating straight men garners a certain amount of privilege in the practice. Personally, I have no interest in passing for straight, and am mortified when it happens.
Scotty O. Curtis
*yawn*
Baba Booey Fafa Fooey
Just more insulting whispers who’s aim and sole purpose is to hurt feelings and make people feel bad about who they are. “Hate yourself Sunday!”
Jose R Negron
It takes all kinds to make any group. Let’s celebrate Gay men, all kinds of Gay men. No one type is better than the other. Let acts of kindness toward other people define us as good or bad.
Realitycheck
I said this several times, Whispers are 99.99% fake, most posters try to get on the popular page by making outrageous statements or are young kids in need of attention and either make up stories or behave as Trolls.
I also suspect Whispers employees make new irritating whispers to get people reaction.
dean3000
@Damon Robbins: well aren’t you special. Should have stayed in the closet
Niko Williams
Which stereotype the white cis we are handsome and well built?
Glücklich
Ditto all commentors whose message is to ignore detractors and do what makes you happy.
It’s easier to rebuke people’s choices than to say “good for you,” thus comment sections chocked full of screed. I’m guilty of it, too, but I’d like to think my default setting for opinions isn’t DUMP.
@Baba Booey Fafa Fooey:
True. First laugh of the day! Happy Sunday!
@Realitycheck:
Yep. In addition to “Hate Yourself Sunday” it could also be “Phone It In Sunday.”
Leviticus Tobias
Do these men want a gold star? Do they think they are special and brave? Get over yourself. ð??©ð???ð?½
bottom250
Sweethearts be who you are, be yourselves. I am a fabulous effeminate gay man who loves shopping, decoration and loves Lady Gaga. I fit the stereotype of the effeminate gay man but this is who I am. I am being my genuine self. So my lovelies lead your own genuine life.
Rimmington
I’m old, fat, bald, and had my prostate removed 2 years ago. And I’m gay. So what?
Cary Lee Hackett
…We Are All One Under The Sun…
Jonny B. Mitchell
Im the pot smoking camper gay!!!!!!
Baba Booey Fafa Fooey
@Glücklich: You too! 🙂
Scott Redner
I’m gay and all these “memes” are made up…
Michael Carpini
This is rubbish.
Louis
@Jose R Negron: Beautifully stated.
Glücklich
@bottom250:
Oh good. Welcome back. I was afraid you’d gone the way of other MIA commentor McShane.
Matthew Mattingsworth Arthur
This does not help our community at all…it helps to reinforce and perpetuate ignorance. Thanks.
NoCagada
@Dusty Lee: People who are ignorant enough to live by or believe in stereotypes use that line…a lot…stereotype?
bottom250
@Glücklich: Ohhh Honey I would never leave the fabulous men of Queerty
Ali Hamadi
And there you have it folks, promoting an app through some old-fashioned stereotypes.
auntsharon
@Jonny B. Mitchell: Meet you in the woods. Bring reefer!
Gary Podschun
Most of the “stereotypical gays” are the ones responsible for the many social advances achieved and taken for granted today.
Kieran
Truth be known, the swishy gay stereotype have probably done more to keep gay and bisexual men closeted than anything else. Who wants to be defined by a continually lampooned stereotype? Everybody should be free to be themselves, swishy or not, but not all gay men should be defined by a particular stereotype.
onthemark
I wonder how many of these Whisper guys have ever put “str8 acting, str8 appearing” in a hookup ad.
Bauhaus
@Baba Booey Fafa Fooey:
Self-esteem Sunday.
dean3000
@Kieran: well the swishy ones did all the hard work. Now they are being attacked for being themselves. The closet cases are the worst for hating gay people
Matt Welker
Most of those guys said they are bothered by stereotypes. That is their issue and they should analyze why it bothers them so much that they need to anonymously post it for everyone to read.
alphacentauri
@Louis: Agreed I have a friend that’s femme and he hates how a lot of gay men hate women or have the reaction of ‘ewwwwwwwww a woman!’ and how a lot of gay men like this are biphobic.
Jason Nelke
The real issue here is that Queerty is a trash publication.
Donny Thomas
Stereotypes don’t bother me but people should not expect me to be like want the perceive I should act. I so agree, I know the feeling
martinbakman
As soon as they conquer their own internalized homophobia they worry so much about stereotypes.
Live and let live.
Bob LaBlah
Does this site, Whisper, ever have anything uplifting on it? The topics in regards to it do not come off as very soul stirring to me at all.
sportsguy1983
No one cares about your whiney and insignificant issues with gay stereotypes.
Paco
@Kieran: Truth be known, the closet cases do absolutely nothing to alter any stereotypes about gay men. That’s the price of pretending you are heterosexual, except for that inconvenient gay sex thing. When it gets down to what is being stuck where, gay men are all the same to heteros “swishy” or not.
I’ll let you in on a little secret…
You define yourself and nothing will ever change if people are never challenged over their beliefs or perceptions of others. That means speaking up and making yourself visible without apology. Something the “swishy” types have been men enough to master and create changes the closet cases are too frightened to enjoy openly.
Oh and also… The closet case is also a stereotype that is cliche, especially in 2015.
——-
Now I need an article from Queerty about how straight men are going gay, and my Sunday will be complete. Perhaps another fake fantasy story from Reddit?
CWM85
Instead of focusing on stereotypes its best to focus on authenticity. Be who you are and if it happens to be a stereotype at least its you. I think so many whatever it is being gay, straight, black etc feel they have to be a certain way because of the demographic. Its not true. Be whatever you are, just let it come Naturally and real with it.
Ridpathos
I love how a post talking about how certain people don’t fit a certain stereotype and there is more diversity in the gay community than most believe has turned into: “You’re hating on femme gays!”
It’s not always about you guys. Get over it.
I personally find it annoying when some woman who barely knows me, and was introduced to me through another friend decides I’m going to be her “best gay friend” and we’re going to go “shopping” together. Props to those who love having fruit flies buzz around them, but that’s not all of us.
bottom250
@CWM85: So fabulously said, sweetheart.
Mack
@Damon Robbins: Same here except I don’t work on cars. Most people who meet me would never guess I’m gay, I don’t hide it, but I don’t broadcast it either. I’ve been out for 50 years.
Tracy Pope
When asked why my house is “decorated” the way it is I tell people I didn’t get that gay gene. In all seriousness, the idea of stereotypes is perpetuated by media and our own community. The first post from Whisper is all I read to realize even those posts are perpetuating the “stereotype”. I’m 6’3″ too and I also play football (and rugby). So what? Just be you and stop trying to crow about how unique you are. We’re all unique – just like the next person.
AtticusBennett
none of them “defied” a single “stereotype”. they in fact confirmed one. they’re the Stereotypical Gays who are Still Insecure About Being Pejoratively Stereotyped By Misogynistic Homophobes.
it’s a cowardly stereotype, further proven by the fact that it’s done on WHISPER where NONE of the photos are actually of the guys.
this was stupid beyond words.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1ju0oHvGSo
AtticusBennett
@Kieran: the “swishy” gays are not to blame for the insecure wimpy cowardice of gay men who are still pathetically hoping their daddy’s think they’re Real Men.
know who you should blame? all these WHISPER-types who claim to be “non-stereotypes” while being Stereotypical Anonymous Cowardly Closet-Cases. in 2015. which is pathetic.
ErgoCoffeeto
Or? Just maybe? Internalized homophobia?
Tracy Pope
@Matt Welker: That’s the sense I got too. A fear of a stereotype.
@AtticusBennett: Whisper app had a good premise at the beginning. I joined when it started figuring I’d read someone’s secret was they killed dear sweet granny or some other craziness. (I dropped the app when it just became a hook-up and “I’m lonely, let’s smoke a spliff together” site).
I get that being openly gay can ruin some peoples lives in some instances – even in 2015 – so I don’t have a problem with that being someone’s secret. It’s this “I’m gay but I’m not like that” mentality that is just asinine.
AtticusBennett
@Tracy Pope: it’s also just a LIE.
let’s see….what do these whisper guys have in common? none are MAN enough to show themselves; they’re still boys, being evasive and giving excuses to hide. that’s a stereotype, a wimpy one – the guys who boast anonymously, yet cannot show everyone what they claim to want everyone to know.
these guys are defined, like you said, by a fear of being pejoratively stereotyped as gay. and not even by anything worthwhile! this is Daddy Issues 101.
all they did was confirm that they’re the lamest of all Gay Stereotypes, the stereotypical insecure coward whose internalized homophobia still makes him a broken boy.
drivendervish
Stereotypes of gay men is a nearly endless list that begins with feminine or flamboyant mannerisms, fashion sense, love of shopping, loves to cook, loves to get fucked, holds fabulous dinner parties, goes to gym everyday, circuit parties, etc. The point is that very few gay men love all of the above. Most gay men engage in 1 or 2 behaviors that are considered stereotypically gay but the balance of their personality is made up of a wide range of interests that don’t fit any pattern.
bottom250
@drivendervish: i love all of those things, sweety.
robho3
This whole whisper story format is just plain stupid
Will N Van
In terms of stereotypes, you forgot to mention, shallow, self-absorbed, wanting to hang onto youth forever, and only valuing physical appearance in themselves and potential partners. There is an inordinate amount of gay men that fit this stereotype, which is why as a gay man, I generally don’t like other gay men.
Steve Davis-D'Cruz
I’m far from perfect but I am probably a stereotype. I love Cher, Kylie, fancy dress and I can bake. I don’t look like a supermodel but I dance like one when I’m getting ready for a night out. None of the above defines me but I’ll never apologise. Talk about damned if you do damned if you don’t. Don’t hate others because of your own insecurity. S xx
bottom250
@Steve Davis-D’Cruz: Honey you are going to make so man happy
Dev.C
OMG this is so fucking stupid. I think the true stereotype is that people don’t think we already do all this stuff, whether your flamboyant or machismo or whatever it doesnt change the fact that all gay men do and enjoy much of the same things straight men do.
Why do we as gay men need to explain ourselves and our motivations?
trell
I’m a bit dissapointed with some of the comments here.
Firstly, the comments that say that the people who, by the very act of stating that they don’t fit the gay stereotype, are themselves, falling into a stereotype (n900mixalot & Atticusbennett).
Sorry gents. You’re both wrong.
The gay stereotype is largely a projection of heterosexual perceptions of what a gay man should look like & act like. Show them a camp twink and they will just say “See! I was right!”. Show them a straight acting plain looking gay bloke and they get confused. – truth is that the stereotype counts for about 10% of the gay community, and that 10% is very visible in the mainstream, the media etc. – The other 90% are just ordinary people doing exactly the same as heterosexuals. The only difference is the sex of the person that they are attracted to. – These people are not empty vessels, or whiny closeted gay guys. Thay are just not as expressive or vocal about themselves.
The stereotype does not help in the gay scene. The majority of young gay guys trying to fit into the community after only seeing the gay lifestyle from afar, will also be affected by the perceptions of what it means to be gay. Guaranteed, many will adopt certain traits in order to fit in. After all, let’s be honest. The gay scene is very shallow and cliquey. There is no doubt a lot of young and impressionable people will act out these traits to fit in, and by doing so, perpetuate the stereotype.
We are diverse. There are butch, manly gay guys, and there are effeminate gay guys. There are old, young, experienced and naive guys. There are guys who are comfortable in their own skin, regardless of their social background, and there are others who want to be someone else. There are doctors, lawyers, police officers, teachers, mechanics, accountants and politicians, as well as hairdressers, actors and dance instructors.
Rather than sneer at these people, why not applaud them for their own unique self-acceptance instead?!
Glücklich
@trell:
Very well stated.
Just because I haven’t tattooed “I’M GAAAYYYY!!!” across my forehead or find a way to work it into every conversation doesn’t mean I’m hiding myself deep in the closet.
Doug
I think a lot of these replies say a lot about what gay men put each other through. I’ve stopped hanging out with the most of the gay guys at my gym as well when I used to go to bars because it just got to be too negative, and frankly, a little depressing. I saw a lot of bitchy guys with very low self-esteem continue to bash each other if someone didn’t think the way they did, or got attitude if I wasn’t attracted to someone who was attracted to me and just wanted to be friends. It was too much work. I accept just about everyone I meet for who they are, but I stay away from destructive people who can’t do the same for me. A lot of the replies here illustrate that. There’s a lot of diversity in gay men, but unfortunately the loud, annoying, self-hating gay men seem to get all the attention. And I DON’T agree that after rioting at City Hall in San Francisco when Dan White got a light jail sentence, being a member of ACT UP for three years and creating a lot of shit, that “the loud and bitchy ones are the ones who’ve gotten us the farthest.” That’s b.s., and it’s insulting. I’ll support you however you want to decorate your apartment, listen to Gaga or Beyonce, whatever, but how about supporting me back in things I like? A lot of “stereotype” gay men complain that they’re being pressured to “act straight,” but they pressure other gay men to do the same thing in order to feel better about themselves.
Lvng1Tor
@AtticusBennett: I agree with you. If you are confident you don’t spend time worrying what others are thinking of you or trying so hard to prove you are not a stereotype. I’m so done being other peoples good little f@ggot. I’m me that’s it. I accept you for you as an individual. Done!
SeeingMoreClearly
@trell: AND Nazis as well as concentration-camp victims. We’ve always been (almost) everywhere.
Blackceo
I agree there is some truth to some stereotypes and I really don’t have a problem with what any of these guys said. It can be related to many things. I’m 6’3 and a man of color and no bitch I can’t play basketball to save my life. We all have stereotypes to a degree so lets not sit on our high horses and act like these guys are saying anything awful.
bottom250
@Doug: You seem loud and bitchy. Cheer up and live your life.
Clark
Doesn’t anyone see the irony in this “article” on one of the most stereotypical sites on the Internet? If weren’t for stereotypes, queerly wouldn’t exist….they thrive on them,exploit them,and actively promote them. Kudos for mad marketing skills.
dtpm
Another stupid article or whatever this is.. along with the list of quotes..
Alan David Smith
you have to embrace your truth. i fall asleep to football. though on occasion i will watch hockey. i dont mind shopping. but i don’t often have the money to go. i like some songs by the pop divas. i like judas and like a prayer. but i also love reba. and ac/dc. you are a 100 diffrent things. and while you may be a dog guy. weather you have a dog or a cat. you are still owned by them. thats how i see it. quit trying to be what you aren’t and be real
Cagnazzo82
“I’m gay but I’m the only special unique gay person on planet Earth because I’m not, you know, like those ‘other’ ‘gays'”…
– Signed, Everygayperson Currentlyalive
Mike Smith
Love it!
zaneymcbanes
It honestly sounds like these are the people who are doing the stereotyping.
Matthew Simonds
Good post, I think the bitchy PC police hate the fact that people that don’t fit the stereo type don’t like others telling them they have to fit it and/or discounting their oriantation all together because they don’t. I have a few things sterotypicle about me, I tend to get closer to women friend wise then men, but still have a fair number of male friends (ones that are totally cool with me being gay) I have a soft spot of s deva if they come on the radio (but don’t really own their music, that honor goes to classic rock and modern country music) I love to bake and cook and do house work in general. But I also love the outdoors I love cars, auto magazines and tv shows (they make up the majority of the shows I actually record) and in general most people think I’m straight. And I don’t like it when people the try to invalidate my sexual oriantation because I’m not gay enough for them. I’m me and that is what matters not what the stereo type says I should be. And now I’m sure the bitchy PC police will jump all over me.
SeeingMoreClearly
@Matthew Simonds: You’re an individual. And I bet you represent a major crux of gay guys out there.
n900mixalot
@trell: the messages above on Whisper don’t represent self acceptance, they represent marginalization and fear of being associated with others who share their same attraction to men …
I remember feeling unique and wanting to be different from the one other gay guy I knew in high school. But I also was one of two who accepted ourselves and it was hard as fahhhck to accomplish. I wasn’t one of those stereotypes we 90s gay kids wanted to become or hide from, but I always appreciated having diverse friends and learned that I was unique among my friends, which I learned to embrace and I miss more than ever now that I’m a grown up with responsibilities. Speed metal, martial arts, drum and bass and parties, and of course high school dominated my time back then. I was more worried about sneaking out to hang out with my friends than I was worried about finding others like me. The others like me I wanted to find were only like me in that they were themselves, 100%.
We normal folks don’t NEED to hope and pray that others see beyond our sexuality because it’s not what defines us. Period. It’s how we live the life we have and treat others.
Don’t want to be called a twink? Then go to the gym and pack on some weight, or stop wearing tight, bright clothes. And no one expects you to be super femme to be a gay guy. And if they do … sorry, wait, who the fahhhck are they in the first place?
And for eff’s sake, tell that chick you don’t like shopping, what’s the big problem? I can’t believe people complain about that. I get asked all the time by a best friend of mine and she knows I hate shopping. But she does it because she wants to spend TIME with me, not because she cares about my shatty taste in clothes. She knows what I wear and doesn’t approve of my long Dickie’s shorts with black socks and Osiris shoes … like waking on puffy clouds …
Want to be manly? Who’s stopping you?! No one, unlike the tons of people in society throughout the years who single out and attack effeminate guys, mouthy or not they tend to be targets for physical abuse.
It’s all very simple, people need to quit messing around with what other people think and get on with being themselves, masc, femme, fat, Asian, old, sexy, sleepy, whatever. Just DOOOO EEEEEEET!!!
Itrebo
I think I can say it now: I dont like Judy Garland, Lisa Minelli and Barbara Streisand…but I know I should
Sean Burwinkel
Its a fine line really. I think what most of them are trying to say is not so much that they dislike the ‘effeminate box ‘, it’s more so that they don’t like having other people automatically assume they fit into this box. They’d rather just be perceived as individuals. And in that respect, I can’t help but agree with them. And I say this as a more feminine gay man.
Baba Booey Fafa Fooey
@Doug:
“I’ve stopped hanging out with the most of the gay guys at my gym as well when I used to go to bars because it just got to be too negative…”
The gym AND the bar? You’re a regular intellectual.
Daggerman
…this has got to be the most infuriating aspect of the human race. Certain people will never understand that you can actually be NORMAL and GAY. Is does make me laugh when people can’t work that out!!
Ryan Davis
Why can’t we accept each other for who we are and who we are not? I’m happy that there are gays that are masculine and some that are feminine. That’s what makes the world so damn colorful! How boring would it be if we were all the same? Let’s not pass judgment on each other and teach acceptance, and love the skin you’re in. Like Hugh Haiker, I wouldn’t want to pass as nothing more or less than who I am! If that means I don’t pass for straight that’s fine w me because I love the skin I’m in and so should you.
footwork61
I’m still surprised at the number of my friends and acquaintances who don’t really get what a gay man is. Even some of my closer friends still conflate sexual orientation with masculinity and gender identity. I am not particularly masculine in the bodybuilding, sports loving kind of way, but I don’t want to be a woman, and I am not a crossdresser. More power to those who are. I like penises — mine especially — and I don’t want to lose it or ignore it. (Let me hold you baby.) I like classical music, art and architecture too. I like looking at women on the red carpet the same way I like to look at a Brancusi sculpture: I appreciate its beauty, but I don’t wish to screw it or become it.
Perhaps these perceptions come from hetero people having been exposed that to only that sliver of the community that feeds those stereotypes. I guess they would be surprised at the number of gay physicists, carpenters, computer technicians and accountants around them who don’t visually stand out from the crowd.
Glücklich
@Baba Booey Fafa Fooey:
Well, the gym and bar may not be *our* strictly preferred venues for meeting people, but I can’t fault anyone for that. Until I met my now husband, the vast majority of my friends and dates came via work. I even met my husband through a friend at a client’s.
The two LTR’s preceding Mr. Glücklich were guys I met in bars, one and four years respectively. The former is my oldest friend. Only my parents have been in my life longer than he has.
Glücklich
@footwork61:
Brancusi for you, Louise Nevelson or Maria Bonomi for me.
Cam
Oh look, another article about a bunch of gay people who are insecure.
Here is an idea, if you want to prove that you aren’t one of those “stereotypes” you may just want to go out and live your life.
Glücklich
@Cam:
Well that just makes too much sense! It’s no fun if we can’t wring our hands about *something*!
trell
@n900mixalot:
I can see your point, but I don’t wholly agree with it.
Queerty has gathered up a bunch of specific opinions off Whisper.com on a specific subject; namely those concerning challenging gay stereotypes, and the majority of the forum seems to be saying that these people are just moaning, and complaining about what they are not.
The big mistake here is that these comments are not directed at the rest of the LGBTQ community per se. They are aimed at the heterosexual populous who expect gay people to be a certain way. – Have another read of the comments, but this time, don’t read them as a gay guy. Read them as a straight guy. – Suddenly, the moaning of the 6ft 3 football player whose friends say “You can’t be gay” . The guy who says “You expect me to be super feminine” is not aiming it at the Queerty forum, but rather society at large.
One thing I will agree with you on, is “JUST DOO EEET!!!” :). Irrespective of whether anyone (gay or straight) conforms to a stereotype or not, as long as they are genuine in who they are, that’s fine! There’s nothing worse than meeting someone who puts on an act. That includes straight guys who act like jocks, but secretly are insecure about their masculinity, just as much as any gay guy who is not into the glitzy “fabulous” persona of the gay stereotype, but still puts on an act just to fit in with the clique. True happiness is just about being yourself, no matter who you are.
??? ???? ???
this sure is homophobic for a gay magazine. boohoo it sucks to be femmephobic masc4masc dudebros. take your internalized homophobia and heteronormative bullshit elsewhere.
Anthony Ray Wheeler
In the gay world there’s that stereotypes that say being flamboyant is bad because there not acting like man and that’s not cool
Johnathan
More hate of the feminine gay man. First of all your generation was allowed to be embraced by society,to be gay, speak openly about your feelings,so you could play sports or be included around guys because your parents had open conversations with you & allowed therapy to know that you can be just a normal dude doing normal dude things & still be gay. You still get to live your life under the radar of those who hate gays; you know you feel superior because you fit in and can look down on the feminine gay man.# NOTAFAN
AtticusBennett
@trell: you are 100% incorrect. which is to be expected – some guys are so incapable of recognizing their own internalized homophobia, the same way too many white people are incapable of understanding and addressing their own white privilege.
these pathetic WHISPERs didn’t do anything but confirm that insecure homos who “want people to know how non-stereotypical they are” are a bunch of whiny do-nothing cowards.
not ONE shows who they actually are.
there was no self-acceptance in any of those pathetic lies in this story. it’s a bunch of cowards anonymously telling everyone how much internalized homophobia they still have. clueless and pathetic.
AtticusBennett
every gay man who worries about “gay stereotypes” is simply telling everyone that he’s still really hoping mommy and daddy think he’s a real man. and y’all are failing miserably.
Chris
To the cop: May I borrow your handcuffs? I mean, f you’re not going to use them that is.
dwes09
@Rick Rosio: As this is NEVER a private issue among heterosexuals, who broadcast their partners, dates, and spouses far and wide, why exactly do you buy into the notion that we must keep it “behind closed doors”? That is akin to staying in the closet or worse even, acknowledging that our relationships are rightly distasteful.
Were i not single, my spouses picture would be on my desk, in my wallet, on my phone gallery and in everybody’s face as theirs is in mine. Quite honestly you sound like you are rationalizing your shame. That has nothing to do with stereotypes. We are more than who we sleep with, and it is NOT a valid source of shame!
dwes09
@AtticusBennett: No offense, but you are awfully dogmatic! Not liking the stereotypes as well as not sharing the stereotypical mannerisms has nothing to do with one’s relationship with their parents! If you are going to cling to this rather old fashioned notion (right up there with the crap about homosexuality being the result of a distant father and overbearing mother), provide empirical support or people are going to rightly jump all over your position.
Some of us see a form of misogyny in the queeny act, some of us find it sexually off-putting, or are turned off by it for other reasons. Why EXACTLY do you attribute this to a desire for parental approval, especially when so many across the spectrum of mannerisms already has that these days?
trell
@AtticusBennett:
Nope. Sorry. Youre wrong there mate – Still, it’s good to have an educated discussion rather than a troll fest. 🙂
The one thing that all those whispers have in common is that all of them are saying “I’m Gay”. That, for a start, irrespective of whether they are closet cases, or out & proud, suggests that they have accepted their sexuality. There’s no ambiguity or remorse in that at all.
However, where the so-called “Whingeing, moaning and internalized homophobia” as you put it, comes from, is that their personalities, characteristics and likes/dislikes, do not fit in with the heterosexual perception of what a homosexual should be like.
And why should we?
If a straight guy thinks all gay guys are lisping, mincing queens with a fascination for Kylie and Madonna, why should we pander to this perception? That’s not internalized homophobia. If anything, anyone who decides to adopt a persona of a stereotypical gay guy, is pandering to the expectations of the heterosexual community.
It’s only been recently since gay people in the media have NOT been portrayed as camp and flamboyant. In the recent decades, a gay guy on TV was usually always effeminate, and do you know why? Because the mainstream was comfortable with that image. It set back the struggle for gay equality immesurably.
Nowadays, we have people like Gareth Thomas, who not only are out and proud, but do not fit the stereotype at all, and who are actively channelling the message “BE YOURSELF!” to young people coming to terms with their own sexuality. Are you going to tell him that he is a whiny coward and an internalized homophobe?
dwes09
Other than provoking some rather interesting comments, why does Queerty post these inane articles drawn from Whisper? It is not sociology, it is not psychology, it does not not necessarily even represent honest statements.
The articles are not news, nor are they commentary. They do not accurately portray trends nor do they provide elucidation of anything for God’s sake! It is even less substantial than presenting a collection of tweets as newsworthy or valuable!
How about an article from actual psychologists about gay attitudes towards the stereotypes that characterize us, how they have changed both for us and for the het community. At least that would be real information.
yamsung9491
To say you should not care about homosexual stereotypes is to also say no-one should care about racism, and although it is true that you shouldn’t let it negatively impact you it can still be a hinderance and annoying to be judged at face value for something equivalent in your control of it to race. It is truly impressive the intolerance even the lgbt community can come up with.
dwes09
@AtticusBennett: Additionally, as a white man you have little idea just how upsetting stereotypes can be. Try having everyone ape a new york accent and attempt bad Yiddish when they find out you are Jewish (somehow thinking you are working hard to not sound that way yourself), or suddenly switch the conversation for money (a topic my very traditional Jewish parents thought was not fit for public conversation)! You seem to have little understanding of what stereotypes are and how they operate on people . Insistence that they are not part of ones identity is hardly a negative thing.
You truely seem to be coming from a place of ignorance and self-reference!
yamsung9491
@dwes09: My hero lol
silveroracle
One. I don’t like WHISPER.
Two. I am gay in my sexuality and not my life.
Hussain-TheCanadian
I’m not really not understanding why so many people on this thread are losing their wigs over the above “confessions”?
It seems they (those confessing) are pissed off with their straight friends for buying into the stereotypes than being angry with “flaming” gay men for being who they are.
Giancarlo85
More of this self hating dreck from Whisper. What utter crap. Just same the whiny “I hate the outgoing gays because they are more courageous then me and I wish I was straight” bullcrap.
I get it some are so brutally offended and disgusted by gay men who are out and aren’t afraid of who they are. And sure you may call them “stereotypical”… but I have no respect for people who hide in the closet all day and try to be “one of the guys”. Stop trying to impress straight men.
Kevin Wotipka
I find the use of the box imagery a pretty interesting personal coincidence, since I’ve always said I didn’t come out of the closet just to climb into a box.
AtticusBennett
@dwes09: because i’ve never in my entire life, met a gay man who complains about “Stereotypes” or rags on perceived “effeminacy” that didn’t come from a family who demanded that there are certain ways a “man should act”
and those that insist that they’re not that “type” can never, and i mean ever, show us who they are and actually prove it.
i don’t know any authentically-masculine gay men who complain about “gay stereotypes” or “effeminacy” – that’s exclusively the domain of the gay man with internalized homophobia.
“If a straight guy thinks all gay guys are lisping, mincing queens with a fascination for Kylie and Madonna, why should we pander to this perception? That’s not internalized homophobia. If anything, anyone who decides to adopt a persona of a stereotypical gay guy, is pandering to the expectations of the heterosexual community.”
Fun Fact – guys who post tripe like that can never, NEVER, show themselves.
the stereotype issue is not that “people think gay men are lisping queens who like madonna” – the issue is that people think “a lisping queen who likes madonna deserves to mocked and denigrated”
something the insecure-WHISPER brigade isn’t intelligent enough to understand.
instead, we get guys saying “I don’t have internalized homophobia! i’m just nothing like those gay people that the straight people in my life make fun of!”
wimps. the whole cowardly lot of you.
Nahald
@Rick Rosio: Agreed !
Doug
@AtticusBennett: After reading several of your comments, you sound very much like the type of guy a lot of us are trying to get away from. Your postings are seething with arrogance, anger and judging anyone who doesn’t think like you. I’ve found that most of those people are the ones who have the “family issues” that you seem to think the WHISPER group are carrying around with them. I came out of the closet to be able to be myself… but from what I’ve experienced, the “rules” that gay men are expected to follow to be accepted by each other are much more narrow and demanding than being in the closet ever was. A lot of these postings illustrate that perfectly. Basically it’s “act and think like me otherwise you’re obviously still in the closet, you have family issues, and you’re whining.” B.S. People who think this way are very unhappy people who need to spend some time in therapy getting a grip on why they’re so angry, controlling and resentful of others all the time. The rest of us who don’t carry all that around with us are getting tired of being scapegoats. You seem to expect people to accept you completely for your differences, but that doesn’t have to be reciprocated back to those who are different from you.
Caliber_Guy
@AtticusBennett: you seem to be the one with issues here. As you are the one insisting everyone has to be just like you or they are a bad gsy. Personally I came our to not hide who I was, and to just be me. Well part of that is not fitting your gsy mold, I don’t fit perfectly into the straight mold, I have more friends that a women then guys, buy I have a good number of guy friends that are cool with me being gay. I love to cook and bake and do housework (but lots of straight me do these days too) but I also love the outdoors, I love cars, I’m obsessed with them. I love going to the auto show, I read car magazines most all of the shows I record on TV are car shows. I love football. Do Yeah For The Most Part people think I’m straight so what, what annoys the hell out of me is when a straight person invalidates my sexuality because I’m not stereotypical, but also when gays like you tell me I’m repressed and not real gay because I not lock step with the gay mold. You want to know the fastest way to have gays like you turn to rabid dogs like the oppressive religous right let them know you are a gay christian. Personally I find the straight community at large has a much wider tolerance for not fitting the mold, then the extremely judgmental self appointed gate keepers to the gay community of people like you. Really I could care less if you are as flaming as a metior entering the earth atmosphere, but to hold that much rage for those that are not shows you ard the one that needs therapy to come to terms with your sexuality and your life and how it affects you. I finished thst project years ago now and I’m still just me, the type of person you hate.
Caliber_Guy
@Doug: you hit the nail on the head. If you are not exactly like them you ard wron. I was part of a LGBT group on Google+ up until one of the Moderates waged a nasty flame war one me because I came out as a gay christian and had the nurv to object to a post cheering in suport of a bible being desiccate, and had the nurv to ssy it was offensive, well he took that as an invite to vesously attack me on a personal level swearing at me calling me names and insults. While I treated him with respect (all while making a point to post more such content in the groups news feed) then made some final nasty comments and kicked me out of group. But AtticusBennett seems to be the ssme strain of gay gate keeper
AtticusBennett
*eye roll*
@Caliber_Guy: No. But your straw man arguments point to a refusal to address your own internalized homophobia.
at no point have i ever in my gay-@ss life said everyone needs to “be just like me” – my friends, gay and straight, are a truly diverse lot.
i love punk and classic rock. i play the drums. i was a contemporary dancer for years. i love early barbra streisand. i play baseball. i hate football and hockey. i love horror films, and campy gay classics.
you don’t get it, at all. theres no “rage against guys that aren’t flamers” – there’s only disdain for those who denigrate those that they’ve been conditioned to perceive as “flamers”
it’s one of those things internet cowards do: they say “you hate me because i’m more masculine than you! you want everyone to be a fem like YOU!”
NO, Blanche. We’d like you to check your insane internalized homophobia that has led you to still divide gay men into “mascs and fems”, and denigrate the latter. it’s rather simple.
@Doug: it has nothing to do with “acting like me” – take a gander at my gay friends and you’ll see we’re not all the same. what we have in common, however, is that none of us are insecure dolts who worry about “gay stereotypes!” with no sense of nuance.
the gay community has been embroiled in this argument for decades. and here’s reality – you can’t be mad at a gay guy for being “stereotypical” – it’s not his fault he is who he is, nor is it his fault that the straight people in YOUR lives make fun of That Type of gay person.
that madonna-loving kid you dismiss as a “flamer” is not to blame for the anti-gay attitudes of the straight folks in your lives, boys.
you don’t need to like madonna to be gay. but when you boys start complaining about “people thinking you have to like madonna since you’re gay” i have to roll my eyes. know what you’re telling us? that the straight people in your life make fun of gays who listen to madonna.
if you’re “accepted” in your life because “you’re not one of those fem gays who listens to Madonna” realize this – you’re not accepted. you’re conditionally tolerated. and it’s pathetic.
“I’m fine with you, as long as you’re not one of those Stereotypical Gays” – it’s so lame.
it’s clear from so many posts in here that Conditional Tolerance is what some of you are mistaking for actual acceptance.
and that’s sad.
Caliber_Guy
@AtticusBennett: really you seem to be the pissed off one that can’t seem to understand you can support every one one the spectrum, even if you don’t fall at the stereotypical end still be comfortable with it. I don’t have internalized homophobia I worked through that a long time ago. But I do get pissed when ether straight or gay people tell me how I have to be, and people like you use the internalized homophobia card to dismiss those that don’t share your view. Well that’s not how it works. My friends don’t care whether I’m stereotypical or not, I have things that are and things that are not, but the straight community is becoming much more open to those diffrenses not making someone less masculine. I have experienced more pressure to fit into a tiny box from the gay community the the straight one. Other then the odd right wing wing nut who has been homophobic I have never been attacked on a personal level and discounted and insulted more then by the gay community, especially the moment they find out you are Christian. I have had insults cuss words and personal attacks hurled at me by group members and Mods on LGBT groups for being Christian then kicked out even though it was the others and Mods braking the rules not me, and was nothing but nice and absolutely respectful. So yeah that’s how the gay community acks when you don’t fit the mold.
Doug
@AtticusBennett: (“eye roll”)
Did you read or understand anything in my posting?
“you don’t need to like madonna to be gay. but when you boys start complaining about “people thinking you have to like madonna since you’re gay” i have to roll my eyes. know what you’re telling us? that the straight people in your life make fun of gays who listen to madonna.”
What the hell are you talking about and where do you see anything in my posting that implies that? My comment (and obviously Caliber_Guy’s above) was that within the gay community UNLESS you like Madonna you’re not accepted by the majority of other GAY men, not straight ones. I’ve found that straight men are a lot more allowing than gay men are, frankly.
I have to laugh at your analogy because I actually said one night in a bar that I didn’t like Madonna and I was literally ostracized and given the Evil Eye for an hour or so after I made the statement. It was incredible.
The big taboo here that nobody wants to ever look at is that a large part of gay culture has been based on anger. The sarcasm, the put-downs, the narcissism, the jealousies, the bitchiness… it’s all about self-hate. People who really care about each other don’t run each other down the way a lot of gay men do. They don’t force each other to live in a box or by a set of rules in order to be accepted. There’s an incredible amount of insecurity among gay men, and it’s worse than any minority group in this country.
I was in therapy for many years to find out who I really was and how I felt about my life. I’m as honest a person as I can be, and I also worked to have a great relationship with my family. It’s the guys who are continually angry, bitchy, controlling and arrogant who had the family problems, and I see them deal with it every day. Unfortunately, rather than get into therapy and look at those issues, they’d much rather take it out on other members of the community.
I don’t think I’ve ever met another gay man I couldn’t support for being who they are. I don’t care if they’re a “flamer” or not. But I don’t feel that many of those who don’t fit the “stereotype” are accepted in return; I think that’s reflected in a lot of these postings. It’s time the gay community started being more tolerant of each others’ differences and less focused on all the superficial crap, like whether someone likes Madonna or not. We’re responsible for each other as well as the image we put out… when are people going to finally take that a little more seriously?
Caliber_Guy
@Doug: Yes you totally get what I’m saying. I have never gotten the flax snd pushback for simply bring me from straight men that I get from gay men. Straight men don’t care that I love to cook, bake, and honestly house work. Or thst I love Taylor Swift, other the Adele and pink the only female pop stars I like. They don’t care that I don’t like Maddon etc. They also don’t care that I’m Christian gay community. My personal experience is that many in the community are full of toxic hatred that comes out as bitterness, bitchyness, of put downs, snd accusations that any one not partaking in said toxicness is somehow internally homophobic. From my experienc it’d the other way around.
tricky ricky
the bf and I are so non stereotypical it’s pathetic. we’ve been together 20 years, lived together for 18 and it never dawns on most people that we’re a couple. and if it has, nobody has said anything because they don’t think it’s their business and if we wanted them to know we’d tell them.
tricky ricky
the guy who doesn’t want to be called a twink is going to miss being called a twink when he gets older.
Kevin Wotipka
If you tell another person how to be gay, then you aren’t really comfortable with your own idea of it. If you were, you wouldn’t mind being one-of-a-kind.
ivanw222
I’m gay, I’m past 60, I’m a veteran, I love watching my Vikings and Twins, I only shop when I have to. I work full time but don’t make a ton of money. I love classic rock music, and my Jeep.