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FASHION POLICE

Trans Group Boycotts American Apparel, Wants To Put The “T” Back In T-Shirt

During Pride month, GLAAD and American Apparel attempted to sell show some LGBT love with a new campaign advertising AA’s line of Legalize Gay shirts. But their efforts have met with an unexpected backlash from Media Advocates Giving National Equality to Transgender & Transsexual People (MAGNET), a small group that describes itself as “anti-defamation organization dedicated to educating the media about transsexual, transgender and intersex issues.”

Ads for the shirts featured transgender model Isis King, best known for her turn on America’s Next Top Model , in a “Gay O.K.” T-shirt. But the fact that King isn’t gay, but rather a heterosexual trans woman, rubs MAGNET the wrong way. “The real issue isn’t if a particular model profits by promoting ‘Legalize Gay’ tees,” MAGNET member Ashley Love told The Advocate, “it’s the confusion sent to society by feeding the already-widespread misconception that women of transsexual history are really ‘gay’ men in dresses. The public is misled to perceive ‘gay’ as an umbrella term which includes transsexualism.”

Although Love is proud of King as one of the first transgender models to be featured in a national campaign, she and MAGNET have launched a boycott against the shirts and American Apparel. A Facebook group, “Boycott GLAAD’s & AA’s Pride T-Shirts: ‘Transsexual’ will NOT be Censored” currently has less than 200 members.

For her part, King calls MAGNET”S outrage “absurd and ridiculous,” and says the group is completely missing the message of her involvement: “The T-shirt doesn’t say I am personally gay. [It] simply says gay is O.K., meaning that I—as an ally and a public figure—am telling other people that there is nothing wrong with gay people. I’m not misinformed and I know who I am. This design empowers my friends in the gay community, and I’d like to see more allies wear this shirt.”

GLAAD’s communications director, Rich Ferraro, sides with King, noting how many members of the trans community have “shared how proud they are that a positive story about a model—who happens to be a transgender woman of color—was able to reach so many through GLAAD’s work to publicize her participation.”

Love hopes GLAAD will be more trans-inclusive in future fashion efforts. “A rose is still a rose, period—not a sub-rose, not a second-class rose, not a rose impersonator,” she says. “Why didn’t GLAAD also advocate for ‘Legalize Transsexualism’? Being an ‘ally’ goes both ways.”

Does MAGNET have a point or are they just getting hung up on semantics?

By:           Lester Brathwaite
On:           Jul 16, 2012
Tagged: , , , , , , ,
  • 45 Comments
    • Jay
      Jay

      The Legalize Gay shirts are about legalizing same-sex marriage and are a play on an earlier AA political shirt that said Legalize LA which was part of a campaign for immigration reform. Just FYI.

      Jul 16, 2012 at 2:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • xiam
      xiam

      Oh Please, MAGNET is a JOKE and their joke is that they are adding intersex people to their cause because they have this warped delusion that adding intersex to their cause will lend credibility or legitimacy. They are a JOKE and they are very delusional.

      Jul 16, 2012 at 2:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rebecca Juro
      Rebecca Juro

      You do realize that MAGNET is a one-person organization and that one person is Ashley Love?

      Maybe you should do a little research on her and her community credibly before you offer Ashley more credit that she may be entitled to.

      Jul 16, 2012 at 2:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dana Riel
      Dana Riel

      “it’s the confusion sent to society by feeding the already-widespread misconception that women of transsexual history are really ‘gay’ men in dresses. The public is misled to perceive ‘gay’ as an umbrella term which includes transsexualism.”

      Exactly why “LGBT” makes no sense and is an insult to both LGB people and transgender people. These are 2 discrete groups. They are not the same and are not defined by the same characteristics. The vast majority of gays are not T and the vast majority of Ts are not gay. These groups were lumped together by a small group of “queer” activists, who wanted gays to be associated with the subversion of gender. T activists went along because they thought it would help their cause to be part of an umbrella movement. But it has not helped Ts; their issues and voices are lost in much larger movement that has very little to do with their unique issues. LGBT hurts LGBs and Ts. End it.

      Jul 16, 2012 at 3:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rebecca Juro
      Rebecca Juro

      @Dana Riel: Actually while the first part of your statement is true, the second part is not. Transgender people are about 50/50 gay-straight, while with gays, a much larger group, that percentage is much lower.

      Also, we didn’t create the LGBT acronym, it’s a political construct. The reality is that if we transfolks didn’t align ourselves politically with gays and lesbians we’d have no rights at all. We accept it because political reality dictates that we must, not necessarily because we feel any kinship with the gay community or vice-versa.

      Anyone who pays attention to state and national politics knows that neither most of the gay community nor their political patrons have much problem kicking trans people to curb to further their own ends, as we’ve seen in New York, Delaware, Maryland, and in our federal government, which made it legal for gays to serve but still bans transgender from military service people by regulation (i.e. Obama, as Commander-In-Chief, could end this ban with his signature but won’t).

      Jul 16, 2012 at 3:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • um...
      um...

      Okay fine but let’s have it both ways.

      MAGNET doesn’t want a trans woman to be associated with being gay? Well I don’t want to be associated with being trans.

      Let’s take the T out and MAGNET and other groups can lobby for equal rights on their own.

      Jul 16, 2012 at 4:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Martin
      Martin

      @Rebecca Juro: Be reasonable. Theres a difference between being respected as a person and respecting your private life like need to have your marriage respected and then demanding full access to everything.
      Being trans involves wanting to change sex which is very fundamental and is a big change. Maybe it isnt reasonable to demand that other soldiers lives should be in your hands since being trans is associated with psychological issues. They have a right to expect that everyone is as fit as possible physically and psychologically.
      Not everyone has a right to fly commercial airliners either. Its not discrimination on an unfair basis

      Jul 16, 2012 at 4:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Palto
      Palto

      I agree – take the T out. I’m sick of being lumped in with and (excuse the pun) dragged down with them. They hurt the cause.

      Jul 16, 2012 at 5:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rebecca Juro
      Rebecca Juro

      @Martin: Um, bullcrap. It wasn’t so long ago that homosexuality was considered a mental disorder and was used a reason for keeping gays out of the US military. Other countries such as England and Israel have had trans people serving in their armed forces for several years with no problem. Your argument is without merit.

      Jul 16, 2012 at 5:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • xiam
      xiam

      It’s why they should take Intersex out of MAGNET because Intersex has nothing to do with being Trans. Intersex is a medical condition and has nothing in common with Trans people. Which is why Intersex has not commonality with Trans people.

      Jul 16, 2012 at 5:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Matt
      Matt

      More silliness from Trans people and trans groups. Nothing new to see here!

      Jul 16, 2012 at 6:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daniel S
      Daniel S

      While I personally don’t see anything wrong or anti-Transgender in the ad, it is rude and foolish for some of you to be lashing out at each other and claiming LGB and T are separate. The T stands for Transgender, an umbrella term that includes a large portion of LGB people and can include those who are genderqueer or gender nonconforming in any way. We are all connected by not being the default of society and we should strive to protect the human rights of all people.

      Jul 16, 2012 at 6:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kevininbuffalo
      kevininbuffalo

      Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Trasgendered, Queer bicurious, questioning intersexed genderqueer gender non conforming. what’s that funny one that means normal? Cisnos or something?. Homo, hetero…I think Jack Malbranche was right. I’m gonna call myself an androphile and let the GLB and sometimes T, or LGBTQI, ever notice B is always 3rd? what’s up with that?
      Any way I’m gonna let you guys and girls and intersexed transexual non conforming genderqueers, except for some counties in Vermont, or whatever figure this out on your own.

      Jul 16, 2012 at 7:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Matt
      Matt

      Daniel-Actually most bisexuals, lesbian women, and gay men are NOT trans at all.

      Jul 16, 2012 at 9:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DrewSF
      DrewSF

      LGB and T should be separate.

      Jul 16, 2012 at 9:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Derek
      Derek

      Ummm.. Legalize transsexualism?!?! It already is legal.

      Jul 16, 2012 at 9:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chris
      Chris

      @Rebecca Juro: More crap from the lobby that believes that same sex marriage is somehow kicking trans people to the curb. For the record, the trans activist community lost my support the night that marriage passed in NY, and the trans activists decided to attempt to turn that Ito a negative.

      You claim in your post that you only begrudgingly ally yourselves with the gay community for political expediency. Feel free to leave at any time, until you do, stop resenting everything that isn’t specifically about you. Just because a t shirt doesn’t mention trans people doesn’t mean it is anti trans. And anyone who doesn’t realize that’ve advances of gay rights, advances many trans gender causes as well, isn’t payng attention. The truth is DADT repeal, and trans issues in the military are very different and really do need to be resolved separately. The medical issues alone are difficult, and don’t try to pretend that trans individuals don’t have different medical and prescription needs than an average person.

      Jul 16, 2012 at 9:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      Sick of trans people? http://peaktrans.tumblr.com/

      Jul 16, 2012 at 10:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dana Riel
      Dana Riel [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @Rebecca Juro:

      You are absolutely correct when you say that gay people and transgender have no kinship for one another. Personally, I despise transgender activists. I have read the trans blogs. I have never seen a more disgusting swamp of homophobia, sexism, cruelty and meanness. More disturbingly, there is an abundance of mental and emotional illness among trans activists. Threats of violence, usually directed against women, are not uncommon. Sometimes, this gels into real violence, as happened in Oregon last month, when trans activists actually threw a molotov cocktail at a bank, on the deranged theory that a bank branch in Oregon had something to do with the conviction of a trans person who killed a man in another state. Then there is the prolonged campaign of intimidation, vandalism and threats directed at – of all people – lesbians who go to an annual music festival. The whole trans “community” is a bizarr.e circu.s of deranged anger. Gay people should not have kinship with this. On the contrary, we should abhor it.

      Did gays “kick you to the curb” because in a few instances they didn’t prioritize your demands over their own rights? Good! My only complaint is that this is not the consistent and uniform practice of our organizations. If it were, we likely would have passed ENDA into law. Instead, we lost a 40-year effort to gain federal protections all because we were forced to give priority to the demands of trans activist thugs. Thank goodness we did not pursue things the same way with DADT. If we had, that policy would still be in force and gay servicemembers would continue to suffer for years to come, an outcome you and your vile crew would no doubt prefer.

      Finally, your assertion that 50% of transgenders are gay is bogus. What’s your source? And how do you define “transgender” in that context? Trans activists are notorious liars, and never more so when tossing about the term “transgender” without definition. Of course, it hardly matters. Even if your assertion were true, it wouldn’t justify the creation of “LGBT.” Any trans people who might be gay would be considered part of the LGB community by virtue of being gay. It wouldn’t mean there was any kinship or connection with transgenderism generally, any more that the LGB community would have some sort of intrinsic bond with florists just because a lot of florists are gay.

      Jul 16, 2012 at 11:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LillyB
      LillyB

      As a trans woman, I enjoyed AA’s campaign featuring Isis King, and didn’t find anything offensive about it. Nor did any of my trans friends and acquaintances. The first time I came across the name of the organization “Magnet” was through this story at Queerty.

      Many of the most supportive and friendly people that I’ve come across during the course of my transition were gays and drag queens, and dykes and lesbians too; they helped me a lot indeed, for which I’m grateful. We always felt a strong sense of community. This is my real life experience. I live in Toronto, Canada.

      Having this said, it saddens me to see degrading and demeaning of trans folks by some people on this thread. There are extremists within all groups, most people do not identify or support extremist views. Obviously not all trans activists are extremists either. In fact if it wasn’t for the efforts of the mainstream trans activists, trans issues were never brought to spotlight and could have never been addressed at all; though there is still a long way to go.

      If you are uncomfortable with trans identities, I suggest reading about oppositional sexism, and the spectrum of human gender identities and expressions. But please don’t use few trans extremists as an excuse to demonstrate transphobia and demean all trans people altogether. I see a comment on this thread stating ‘sick of trans people?’ Sad to see few fools in the LGB community have this mentality. Do all trans people make you sick @Andrew? Don’t you think this is an expression of transphobia, and is discriminatory based on gender identity and expressions?

      And @Martin, why do you think that trans folks are mentally ill? They are not. Refer to any scientific reference or credible source and you’ll see. There are trans folks within all levels of society: as entrepreneurs, managers, engineers, artists, lawyers, medical experts, etc. What makes you think they are mentally ill?!

      Let’s all be human, and accept and celebrate our diverse sexualities and gender identities.

      Jul 17, 2012 at 1:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LillyB
      LillyB

      @LillyB: Sorry meant to say ‘few folks’ not ‘few fools'; it’s a typo. This is how the sentence should have come out: “Sad to see few folks in the LGB community have this mentality.”

      Jul 17, 2012 at 1:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Analog
      Analog

      There are bigoted morons in the LGBT community just like any other, unfortunately.
      The reasons why LGBT people have united together in the fight for equal rights (and should continue to do so) should be obvious to anyone with a modicum of intelligence (or who isn’t blinded by bigotry).
      Queerty seems to attract some real knuckle-draggers, these days…

      Jul 17, 2012 at 5:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Geri
      Geri

      Many trans people are BGLQ – Bisexual, Gay, Lesbian, Queer – as well as T. I actually strongly doubt that the majority of trans people really id their sexuality as straight.

      With Intersex I have no idea really. I’ve read that most xx chromosome males have, or desire, female partners only but a large proportion of xy women are lesbian or bisexual. I don’t think there’s been that much research done on it.

      Jul 17, 2012 at 8:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Analog
      Analog

      What’s most depressing about gay people who spout transphobic drivel is that they sound *exactly* like what homophobes of the past would’ve said about us, before there was a sizable proportion of the population who didn’t share their bigotry.
      They use almost exactly the same language and terminology and seem to think in the same ignorant, small-minded way.
      One hopes it’s just a lack of education, rather than a curious kind of blind stupidity.
      Then again, I don’t think you can ever rationalise bigotry – it’s probably a kind of mental illness. Particularly amongst the most virulent type.
      I think the extreme minority of gay people who spout transphobic sentiment are those ones who desperately want to be seen as part of “normal” society – the “I just happen to be gay” brigade – which means they probably have the same resentment towards flamboyantly gay men or any LGBT person who doesn’t go out of their way to fit in to straight society and appease anyone who only tolerates us when we do.

      Jul 17, 2012 at 8:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ginasf
      Ginasf

      As has been mentioned, MAGNET isn’t an organization, it’s a one person alias for Ashely Love, who is only speaking for herself. I truly wish media outlets would stop covering her as though she’s some legitimate spokesperson for ‘the trans community’ because she isn’t.

      I wish American Apparel had a Legalize Trans shirt as well… yes, because honestly, our community goes through a lot more crap than non-trans gay people do. Does that mean I think Isis King shouldn’t have been modeling the Legalize Gay shirt… heck no. She’s a model, and models wear commercially marketed products, and she can always be a straight trans woman and SUPPORT equal rights for gay people. What’s wrong with that?

      Now what I did find offensive were those awful spandex leggings they stuck on Isis… gross. Oh yeah, and how about hiring her for campaigns other than Pride Week.

      Jul 17, 2012 at 1:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • J Bocca
      J Bocca

      Look how “Ashley love” Describes herself: Ashley is a woman born with chromosomal and anatomy diversity (which transpired into a medical condition). lmaooooo. That is one imagination. Also I love how alot of trannys have this outrageous stripper/drag names but then want to be taken seriously as a female. GTFOH.

      Jul 17, 2012 at 1:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DanaRiel
      DanaRiel

      You are absolutely correct when you say that gay people and transgender have no kinship for one another. Personally, I despise transgender activists. I have read the trans blogs.

      I have never seen a more disgusting swamp of homophobia, sexism, cruelty and meanness. More disturbingly, there is an abundance of mental and emotional illness among trans activists. Threats of violence, usually directed against women, are not uncommon. Sometimes, this gels into real violence, as happened in Oregon last month, when trans activists actually threw a molotov cocktail at a bank, on the deranged theory that a bank branch in Oregon had something to do with the conviction of a trans person who killed a man in another state. Then there is the prolonged campaign of intimidation, vandalism and threats directed at – of all people – lesbians who go to an annual music festival. The whole trans “community” is a bizarre circus of deranged anger. Gay people should not have kinship with this. On the contrary, we should abhor it.

      Did gays “kick you to the curb” because in a few instances they didn’t prioritize your demands over their own rights? Good! My only complaint is that this is not the consistent and uniform practice of our organizations. If it were, we likely would have passed ENDA into law. Instead, we lost a 40-year effort to gain federal protections all because we were forced to give priority to the demands of trans activist thugs. Thank God we did not pursue things the same way with DADT. If we had, that policy would still be in force and gay servicemembers would continue to suffer for years to come, an outcome you and your vile crew would no doubt prefer.

      Finally, your assertion that 50% of transgenders are gay is bogus. What’s your source? And how do you define “transgender” in that context? Trans activists are notorious liars, and never more so when tossing about the term “transgender” without definition. Of course, it hardly matters. Even if your assertion were true, it wouldn’t justify the creation of “LGBT.” Any trans people who might be gay would be considered part of the LGB community by virtue of being gay. It wouldn’t mean there was any kinship or connection with transgenderism generally

      Jul 17, 2012 at 2:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Finally
      Finally

      Glad to see MAGNET and other transsexuals calling out those who claim to be about changing perceptions, but actually misinforming the public that transsexual women are “gay”. Sexual orientation is not the same thing as gender identity. Is GLAAD stupid, or just more concerned about gays than transsexuals?

      Jul 17, 2012 at 5:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michelle
      Michelle

      As someone who has worked on events, speech advising and even protests with MAGNET, I take high offense to your baseless judgements and petty slander. If you disagree with comments made by one of our organizrs, fine, then disagree. But to make up lies and engage in trashy character assassination campaigns actually says more about you than it does about anyone you’ve mentioned. In fact, this type of cyber bullying is precisely what we are talking about. This is why people like Love, myself and other women of transsexual history risk being attacked, because not countering miseducation that harms us will allow even more harm.

      Still, you have ignored all authentic issues raised. How typical

      Jul 17, 2012 at 5:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michelle
      Michelle

      That was directed at a couple commentators, not the author of the article

      Jul 17, 2012 at 6:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Martin
      Martin

      @Rebecca Juro: um gay people dont need major surgery and hormone treatment to live a full life… I guess that um, says something about trans people not being um, healthy…
      besides, um you meet veeery few balanced trans people here, none of whom i should trust with a gun…
      um…

      Jul 17, 2012 at 7:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Riker
      Riker

      @Analog: I’m one of the people who thing GLB and T should part ways, and i’m not transphobic at all (actually, my boyfriend is a transman).

      Our issues are different, our fights are different. I honestly with for trans people to have all the rights they seek, and wish them the best of luck. I also don’t mind being allies where it is in both our communities’ interests, but i’m not going to put trans issues before gay issues. Given the choice, I will protect my own people every time.

      Jul 18, 2012 at 1:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michelle
      Michelle

      Rebecca, you have no credibility, you write for a gay male site which attacks and invalidates transsexual women constantly. You are a sell out and opportunist.

      Also, as someone who has volunteered with MAGNET for five years, I can assure you that your petty smear campaign and lies concerning MAGNET are very typical of ill-willed politicians who resort to falsehoods to make their case when the truth won’t advance their cause. If you disagree with one of our organizers, fine, but to make up lies about MAGNET only proves our point concerning the blatant cyber bullying transsexuals endure by gays and their trans apologists (token trans toms) who want to silence us

      We won’t be silences

      Jul 18, 2012 at 6:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michelle
      Michelle

      @Rebecca Juro:
      @Rebecca Juro, you have no credibility in the transsexual or even transgender communities, you write for a gay male site which attacks and invalidates transsexual women constantly. You are a sell out and opportunist.

      Also, as someone who has volunteered with MAGNET for five years, I can assure you that your petty smear campaign and lies concerning MAGNET are very typical of ill-willed politicians who resort to falsehoods to make their case when the truth won’t advance their cause. If you disagree with one of our organizers, fine, but to make up lies about MAGNET only proves our point concerning the blatant cyber bullying transsexuals endure by gays and their trans apologists (token trans toms) who want to silence us

      We won’t be silenced

      Jul 18, 2012 at 6:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LillyB
      LillyB

      @Riker: I think the GLB and T communities share many issues and concerns, also many Ts are also GLB as well. True, Ts have T specific issues and concerns, but so do Ls and Gs as well, don’t they? Many Ts have actually fought alongside the LGB for the causes of one big community of diverse sexualities and gender identities and expressions. It is a very good thing to have critical conversations between the diverse groups within the community; the feminists for example have these types of conversations and dialogues as well. But the only groups among the feminists who are breaking away from the mainstream, seem to be the extremists and radicals. I hope this doesn’t happen to the LGBT community ever. Alliance and cooperation while acknowledging the specific differences not only is possible, but also can be very productive and prolific, as it has been so far. We just need to be able to differentiate between mainstream and radicals.

      Jul 18, 2012 at 7:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LillyB
      LillyB

      @Geri: This is what I’ve read and also seen in real life too, most Ts are not straight, and identify as G, L or B. I read this in 2 different books on trans folks from 2 different decades: True Selves, and Whipping Girl. And most of the trans folks that I know in the community are not straight. Clearly, this doesn’t mean that the straight trans folks should be outcasted.

      Jul 18, 2012 at 7:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LillyB
      LillyB

      @Martin: Not all trans folks go through hormone therapy and surgeries; Transgender is an umbrella term for transexuals, gender queers, etc. And those who get on hormones and take surgery do this not because they are unhealthy or ill, or lack mental or intellectual capabilities, but because they want to bring their presentation and outer expression in line with their true selves. Transition is basically re-orientation of secondary and then possibly primary sex characteristics, as well as presentation, with the true gender of the individual. For them, transition has actually happened when they can start their life and be accepted as their true gender, with or without hormones or surgeries.
      The extent and severity of anxiety and depression that trans folks experience before or during transition is usually not much different from the any other cis person’s anxiety or depression, and is a result of gender incongruence that trans folks go through, not lack of mental or intellectual capabilities. In fact, it is the cisnormative values of the society, hand in hands with heteronormative values, that is the cause of almost all the difficulties that trans folks or gay people face.
      Like every other community, the trans community has people from every walk of life: sex workers, academia, jobless, lawyers, mentally ill, doctors, entrepreneurs, artists, criminals, etc. So you can’t judge ones mental or intellectual capabilities by their gender identity or expressions, just the same way you can’t judge them by their sexual orientation. Every individual is unique and has a different resume, regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity and expression.

      Jul 18, 2012 at 7:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • flow in
      flow in

      the argument that TS women/men belong as part of a group defined by sexual orientation due to “common persecution” is non sense.

      in the UK, there used to be a sign banning “blacks and irish” from pubs. does that form any deep link between the two? of course not.

      the medically resolvable condition of transsexualism belongs on its own, represented by women/men of transsexual history. There is no ‘right’ to speak for us granted to the LGB community, as there is no ‘right’ to speak for ‘irish’ granted to ‘blacks’ due to persecution in england last century.

      There is no commonality (unless we start looking at the sexuality of the TS group).

      it is sad that to suggest this generally results in attack by a non-comprehending LGB majority that seems to think that they understand us, whilst simultaneously mis-representing us and rejecting what we have to say.

      Jul 18, 2012 at 7:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rebecca Juro
      Rebecca Juro

      @Michelle: “…petty smear campaign?” That would imply I actually give a shit. For the most part, people like you and Ashley are just static and given no more consideration. My problem comes in when people start taking you seriously and worse, think you actually represent the bulk of the community.

      Accuse me of whatever you want, I’m cool with it…but hey, thanks for reading and listening!

      Jul 18, 2012 at 8:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shel
      Shel

      I don’t understand why they didn’t just have legalize trans or trans o.k. shirts included? It seems like that would have solved the problem. I don’t think there’s any problem with Isis wearing the shirt, but I do think there’s a problem when there’s not a trans shirt.

      Jul 18, 2012 at 10:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LillyB
      LillyB

      @DanaRiel: Just to do a quick reality check.

      You mentioned “Then there is the prolonged campaign of intimidation, vandalism and threats directed at – of all people – lesbians who go to an annual music festival.” You are referring to MichFest, correct? It is a lesbian-feminist festival, which has many trans allies, i.e. cis females, protesting their policies as well. Yours is a misrepresentation of the protests against MichFest, and is dishonest. And it is not only this festival, there is ongoing debate regarding trans women’s access to women-only spaces, in which many cis women and feminist activists do support inclusion of trans women.

      You mentioned “More disturbingly, there is an abundance of mental and emotional illness among trans activists.” I can name quite a few prominent influential trans activists who are anything but emotionally ill: Julia Serano, Lynn Conway, all the activists here in Canada who lobbied and fought for passing the Toby’s act, and had the support of almost the entire LGBT community here and allies from the US; I can go on and on with list of names and groups. You simply summarize them all as mentally and emotionally ill?!

      You mentioned: “Trans activists are notorious liars”. Can you provide any evidence to support this claim?!

      You mentioned: “your assertion that 50% of transgenders are gay is bogus. What’s your source?” How do you know this claim is bogus? Refer to the 2 books that I mentioned in another comment of mine in this thread for references; and there are many other resources just as well.

      Finally, have you really met, worked with as colleagues or within teams or working groups, or befirended any trans folks at all? Your comments regarding the trans community and trans people is almost an exact replica of the transphobic comments and attitudes that the GLB folks have had to deal with since decades ago. There are people from all walks of life within the trans community, just the same as it is with the gay community or any other human community. How can the trans community be so demonized in your view?

      Jul 18, 2012 at 11:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Geri
      Geri

      @flow in: Re: “There is no commonality (unless we start looking at the sexuality of the TS group).”

      What about the sexualities of non trans people who are attracted to, have relationships with, trans people?

      And what about straight people who are partnered with openly bisexual people? Are they not really some part of the LGBTQ community? At least in some cases?

      Jul 19, 2012 at 2:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Thomathy
      Thomathy

      LillyB, I’m unsure if your particular insight, speaking as a fellow Torontonian, is going to be terribly appreciated here at Queerty. You might have noticed that this place is a nest of hate.

      Jul 19, 2012 at 2:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michelle
      Michelle [Different person #1 using similar name]

      It’s about equality always has been always will. No one has the right to know what your sexual preference is except the couple involved with each other.

      Gender discrimination is just as wrong as any discrimination. the only one that should have a say about their gender is the individual involved.

      Stop using labels, be evolved.

      Don’t lump the two together, it’s no-one’s business, except the individual and their significant other.

      Jul 19, 2012 at 7:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LillyB
      LillyB

      @Thomathy: That’s OK, many people read the comments without participating so as long as a productive counterargument and an alternative to the hateful rants is offered, mission is accomplished. BTW not sure if anyone is checking this thread anymore but I just came across this story and I thought I’d share it here, it’s related and worth checking out.

      Jul 19, 2012 at 11:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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