“We’ve reached an exciting turning point in LGBTQ history,” Dylan Jones writes in a new think-piece published by Attitude. “For the first time in living memory, many queer kids are being treated in much the same way as other kids.”
Jones writes that more and more young people are being themselves in school and looking up to LGBTQ characters on TV and in movies, which he thinks is great.
“Shame is largely a thing of the past,” he declares, “and homophobia is, like, SO 2008.”
Is it? Is it really, though?
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Related: School removes two students’ ‘offensive’ quotes about being proudly gay from yearbook
Jones acknowledges that “things aren’t perfect.” For instance, he says, “discrimination–particularly transphobia–is still rife in many schools.”
Plus, you know, all those antigay hate crimes you still hear about, antigay politicians being elected into high office, mass shootings inside gay clubs, the shockingly high number of LGBTQ teen suicides, artists who still think it’s OK to sing about bashing queers, et cetera, et cetera.
“But it’s way better than it used to be,” Jones says. “For the first time, many LGBTQ kids are making it through unscathed.”
If merely making it through life “unscathed” is all we’re striving for then, OK, maybe. But that’s not even the most shocking part of his argument.
Related: Gay teens ordered to stop hugging because ‘there are children present’
Jones writes:
There seems to be an attitude among older generations of LGBTQ people, particularly older gay men, that their younger counterparts are “losing sight of the issues.” Many seem concerned that kids these days don’t appreciate what they’ve got, saying they prioritize superficiality and fun over activism and action.
Well, Jones says, maybe that’s not such a bad thing. After all, who needs history? The past is, like, SO boring!
But it gets worse.
Jones continues:
It must be hard to swallow, after going through such struggles, to see young, chatty, confident gay men swanning about like they own the place. Unfortunately, this is when poison and jealousy can rear their ugly heads. It’s understandable really, but this doesn’t make it reasonable or right.
Related: If You’re Over 40 You Should Stay Out Of Gay Bars, Says Ageist Blogger
Did you hear that, you old queens? You’re just mad at these other generations of LGBTQ people because they’re younger and more confident than you!
“There is also a tendency, perhaps, for older gay men to think they know all there is to know about being gay, and what that means for your place in society,” Jone continues. “But the fact is, they don’t.”
“SHOULD young LGBTQ people care about their history?” he asks. “They’re certainly not obliged to. Why should they? This is just their lives. They’re existing as they should always have been allowed to exist–happily and freely. They shouldn’t be made to feel guilty, or even grateful for that.”
Plus, he adds, “they’ve also got shit to do.”
ChrisK
Yeah, because activism is like so dead now that we have all the rights will ever need. All you oldies are just jealous because we can suck a cock 3 times a day if we want. Plus, we look good while doing it. Isn’t that all that matters?
..and people wonder why we have groups like TwinksforTrump. The brain dead.
Cylest Brooks
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ChrisK
Yeah, because activism is like so dead now that we have all the rights will ever need. All you oldies are just jealous because we can suck a co*k 3 times a day if we want. Plus, we look good while doing it. Isn’t that all that matters?
..and people wonder why we have groups like TwinksforTrump. The brain dead.
GayEGO
Naughty naughty, be nice to us old farts! :>)
rextrek
at 57 – and OUT since 1982……at 22yr…Im envious that young people CAN BE themselves MOre Now-a-days…..! Not Jealous, but actually Proud that younger people KNOW WHO they are at a Younger age – and WITHOUT the SHAME we had…….heck, back in 1976 @ 16, I got myself into a situation where I was Raped by a 35+yr old guy…..I was so embarrassed and ashamed, but whom was I gonna Tell in the mid 70’s? I recently told that story at a family gathering and my youngest brother ( a real sweetheart) grabbed me and hugged me and cried and said he was sorry……I said..FOR WHAT? It wasn’t his fault………he just felt so bad I had to go thru that alone…… well I lucked out with family…….
ChrisK
It actually makes me sad that guys like Jones needs to feel an us vs them attitude. Although, I do think this attitude has existed for a long time. Everything from the don’t trust anyone over 30 in the 60s era to the many forms of age discrimination that’s always existed in our own community.
Jones like every ageist idiot before him will one day find out that he too will be get old and have to listen to some new young punk writer complaining about guys like him messing their vibe up with his presence. It’s the cycle of things I guess.
Chris
I agree with you about being envious of the youth today, definitely not jealous. I like my age. I like my wrinkles. I like my scars. Heck, I often think that if I could relive my life, I’d go through high school with no fucks given. But I can’t. God bless those that can.
orfunnyhaha
Your story is so similar to mine. There are a lot of things I would change if I could, but these things made us stronger. Best wishes to you.
Brody
“Young, chatty, confident gay men swanning about like they own the place” is supposed to inspire envy??
Apparently I have a very different perspective of what makes one envious.
Heywood Jablowme
And it’s not like they DO own the place. They’ll be paying off student loans til they’re 60!
o.codone
^ hahahahaha. BlowMe’s got it.
GayEGO
I notice they did not mention the increasing number of young ones who commit suicide because they cannot deal with it. I am 76, married to my lifetime partner of 87 for almost 14 years in Massachusetts. We have been together for 56 years as we met at a gay bar in Boston in 1962. I was also in the Navy, keeping my private life out of the Navy so I was honorably discharged in 1963. I was also a Navy musician who played the flute, so I know what harassment is. I am originally from Boise, Idaho where they had the witch hunt in 1955, sending gays to prison. Now, we are both retired and living the American dream. It takes awhile, but most people have and are learned that we live like they do and are not a threat to them. Only the religious bigots and some GOPs are the harassers.
Bob LaBlah
From the article: “Did you hear that, you old queens? You’re just mad at these other generations of LGBTQ people because they’re younger and more confident than you!”
If you asked me I think its you guys with the social problems, not us. Between Youtube, Facebook and MySpace you guys clearly never learned the art of face to face socialization and need a reality check. We came from a generation where instant gratification was not a matter of whipping out ones cellphone and going to a hookup or body worshiping website. Two years ago I got an email from a black friend who still lives in NYC who is the same age I am (59). It was a youtube vid showing a ball called BQ Sex Siren. In this vid the guys were HOT! But also what I noticed immediately was not only how young and hot the participants were but also how young the crowd was ( very few appeared to be over forty more or less). My friend said that he was going to go to it the following year (January). He went alone because everyone he tried to get to go with him told him that was not meant for “us”, older gay men. He says as soon as he got there the first thing he noticed was the blank stares he got when he smiled at people that WERENT participants. He was being friendly but there were looking at him more or less like “what makes your old ass think I want you”. He says he left after thirty minutes or so into the show and have never went anywhere that left him feeling that lonely and out of place even though he too was black and gay. He says he looks back and sees himself as gay but they crowd as DL (hey, you go figure that one). He says he started to go to the Blatino Oasis party but that incident really made him change his mind once the reality of just how old he and his values set in. He wouldn’t have been turned away at neither because he was a paying customer and that was what they look for but once inside thats where it ended.
I am not singling out any particular group or region because I have had incidents here in the midwest that I too experienced in NYC as to having what I refer to as manners and social skills put to the test. Too many of these stuck up kids seem to think the word hello translates to lets have sex. How can one walk into the same gym, bar, grocery story and even job, see the same people every day, week after week, month after month, year after year and not open their mouthes and say hello, or at least acknowledge a smile or nod of the head with the same? If I go to the grocery store and see you a second or third time and our eyes meet I am going to say hello because that is my personality and how I feel that I was brought up. Gay or strait these kids growing up nowadays are a piece of work.
tnguy222
Despite being in my 20’s,my best friends are in their 40s, 50s and 60s. Not only is the conversation significantly richer and at a greater depth, but hanging out with older people allows you to take the reins of power once it is time for an economic transition.
Sexually, I pretty well exclusively seek Twinks, but the conversation is often shallow and vapid. The older generation still has much wisdom and knowledge to impart, but I fear our youth has become too obsessed with celebrity idolatry to reflect and appreciate our forebearers.
Paco
Oh you silly kids. Just wait for the next worldwide depression. Gays will be one of the first minority scapegoats that are targeted to distract the masses from their economic misery.
Until our equal rights are protected from the protected evils of religion, the fight must continue and not be forgotten.
RESCHI
That’s good. I guess it’s part of you to lack perspective, be short-sighted, etc. But these people today are so very disrespectful and mean-spirited. It seems having ‘tude is a cheap day supplement for character. And the notion that older men all want them? Again, no perspective. They are a mess … let gays again become an en masse target and let’s see who is most vulnerable.
Wolfie
Well Dylan. I actually knew Marsha P Johnson and she’d bitchslap the shit out of you for being such a little arrogant troll.
Tobi
If he wasn’t hustling, thieving, pimping or drugged out of his brain.
JaredMacBride
What is a Dylan Jones and what has he ever done that I should pay attention to his scribblings?
tjack47
Ha!
JerseyMike
The only thing I can say I am jealous of is I can’ t eat all the bullsh!t I could eat when I was 20… Other than that, B!tch please!! I have the home I have always wanted, the career I have always wanted. I have traveled all over the world. I have had wonderful relationships, amazing sex, amazing family who don’t give a damn about my sexuality… And I still wake up with a hard-on… Young buck, when you live the life and had the fun I have had.. call me… The sad thing is most of the young guys look old already … bad eating habits, no exercise, drugs, sitting in front of the computer, tv and on their phones. Yeah!! we are jealous of you!!! LMAO!!!!!!
Brian
Seriously. I miss my waistline from 30 years ago. Apart from that, life is way better in every way today. The thought of being 22 in today’s world just makes me shudder, who would want to be part of the most vapid, self centered, incompetent generation in history?
calpoidog
Not sure how old he is and glad he feels confident but he must only date 40-year-olds because most 20-somethings, gay or straight, aren’t the most confident individuals collectively. I’d never want to be in my 20’s every again, regardless of how easy it is to “be yourself” nowadays. The ones I meet who project “confidence” usually don’t have any reason to feel confident, IMHO.
Plus, he and his age group have also missed out on gay bars and other venues where you actually got to see someone face to face and talk to them instead of all this app crap. They should be jealous of us! I really miss those days. 🙂
Jealous of people in their 20’s and 30’s? Hardly.
dgsea06
What a shame that youth is wasted on the young…
Mack
As an “oldie” I’m glad kids today can be chatty and open about their sexuality. Back when I was in my 20’s we had to worry about the vice squads raiding the bars because we touch each other on the arm.
But don’t forget, while we have rights and we are moving forward, it’s not over yet. We still have to fight the bigotry in certain states and those same states will do any thing they can to take it away from us.
yaletownman
At 56 y/o I’m not at all jealous because this is what we’ve worked for. We always work toward a promised land that will ultimately be enjoyed by those that come after us.
It is better than it was before. When I was young, living in the south, coming out wasn’t an option unless you were willing to have the shit beat out of you everyday. There were no safe places but bars and once outside those doors you’d better get back into straight mode fast.
But coming out today still brings problems and I’m not sure that the picture being painted of our youth being confident and easy street is even near accurate. Maybe the extremes are not as prevailant or predictable but they still suffer. They still open themselves up to the ridicule, being ostracized by friends and family, etc. Very few of them live in Chelsea, West Hollywood or the Castro.
It’s better yes but there is still along way to go.
inbama
No need to be annoyed with a whole generation because one person, Dylan Jones , is a moron.
radiooutmike
I’m 50, out since I was 48- but I knew when I was 14 or so.
So, anyways, put me down as envious and proud. I wish I could shove my 1987 self into 2018. He’d have a great time. If I was 20 or 21 now, it would not have taken me 30+ years to come to grips opf who I really am.
And I’m proud of these ‘kids’, there’s much more acceptance and accessibility for them (and us).
Charlie in Charge
Everyone should know the history of their people. Our people should know a bit about the laws that restrained, the horrors of the past and the voices that created change, bringing this better world into existence.
Of course the point of it all was to give the next generation a world that is less fraught, more accepting, and more peaceful. We should probably find it within ourselves to forgive the young and ungrateful for enjoying the world they inherited. It will be fun to watch them age though and see their reaction to the rising generation that will find its own new way to rebuff them.
tham
Actually, that’s not my take on 20something gays at all. They seem very lonely.
I mean, sure, sex is much easier now. You don’t have to go to a bar and interact with people…now, you just hook up with all your neighbors.
Which, for loneliness, is the worst idea ever…cause the next year, you’re running into them, reminding yourself how lonely you are…
So let me be the old guy and say “sure, somethings change…and somethings stay the same”
Loneliness, it’s a b*tch.
RookieLaCookie
I’m 69 and have been out since 2006. Previously I was married, a father of two and constantly struggled with my sexuality. My wife and I had a good marriage until she confessed she was seeing someone else and wanted a divorce. “He won’t take me seriously as long as I’m married”. We had divorced and he soon dumped her.
I promised I wouldn’t come out to my kids or her mother. That didn’t last long. She soon told me I had to tell the girls because they were not buying that we were no longer getting along and wouldn’t let her be.
I am now married to a great guy, Dan, who also was previously married and has three kids. Frankly I wouldn’t change a thing. I told my kids and Dan told his. Much to our amazement our kids are our biggest supporters. I thought his son would take it the hardest being a male. If I would run into him downtown, he’d walk up and give me a big hug. All of our kids consider each other siblings and get along great.
Observing them I have felt that being gay doesn’t have the stigma it did when I was growing up. I’m happy for the young generation of gays. Being gay isn’t the social problem it used to be. Although being an asshole still is no matter if they are straight or gay.
Brian
Did I miss a mass shooting in a gay club? Or is this a new plural meaning singular, the same as the pronoun “they”?
Rangerboy
Well, it can be understood that some people are jealous, but then again, what for. Should’t we be happy that the future generations will not have to face the same struggles as we had to face? We were the “faggots”, “fairies” etc….. associated with dirty old men, featherboa waving drag queens or leather daddies, preying on young innocent kids. We lived, or started to discover our sexuality during the peak of AIDS, socially totally unaccepted, gay marriage, open display of feelings, sexuality, all a taboo. But lets be happy for the younger generations. Lets be proud of what all of us somehow fought for, some in public, some low key and some quietly suffering in the closet, or even worse, committing suicide. And instead of being jealous, lets make sure that the future generations understand and also learn how our struggle for acceptance was, may they not forget, how the struggle was, how many friends and lovers we lost, how many sleepless nights we had, fearing the test the next day…..instead of being jealous, earn respect by sharing the experiences!!!! And lastly, all the hunks, twinks and eyecandies of today, will one day end up with dad bods!
ryantbo
could it also be that no one in the gay community will look at anyone over 35 unless they came from a really GREAT gene pool or are incredibly rich? There is a saying in the community that there are 2 ages in the gay community – 29 and old
Heywood Jablowme
I’m old & over 50 & I’ve never heard that “saying,” and that’s not my experience or observation. (As I say in a post below here, young guys are always begging me to f*ck them, and I’m not even looking for that! And my looks are only slightly above average, lol.)
In my observation, gay guys often don’t settle down until their late 30s / early 40s. That’s the most common age to do it. Then they settle down with a guy their own age.
I don’t know where you live but it must be someplace where the gay guys in their 30s are all fat and don’t go to the gym, and they probably all SMOKE too! Smoking is what ages you more than anything.
ChrisK
Yeah, me neither since I don’t think guys are even worth looking at till they’re at least 30. That mindset comes from chicken hawks.
nm4047
I do look forward to the day the blogger realises he has reached that ‘age’ then see what drivel he comes up with.
Donston
A random blogger said it. Therefore, it must be true, right? Yes, it is easier to gain acceptance and confidence both internally and externally. However, internalized homophobia, mental health issues, socialogical strife and religious suppression/guilt are still major problems for a significant amount of people no matter their age demographic. And based on recent stats blatent homophobia is actually on the rise.
I’ve always gravitated towards older people, not really sexually or romantically, though my husband has a few years on me. Most of my friends are 35+ (I’m 29). Having friends who have been there and done that and have the wisdom to examine their youth I feel helped me avoid certain pitfalls. While the social issues may not be quite as widespread as they once were, the younger crowd often offers up a level of vapidness, narcissism and naivety that can be hard to contend with or feel any connection to.
MacAdvisor
I am 60. I was fired from my first job out of college because they discovered I was gay and this was in the Bay Area. The great love of my life died in the 80s. I have been raped, beaten, and robbed. I have marched, protested, sown quilts, and donated money. I love Broadway musicals, speak smattering of French, and quote lines from The Women, The Wizard of Oz, and Rocky Horror. I know my wines, can cook, know how to remodel a house, and fix a hem, and rebuild a washing machine. I have some very close friends who’ve made this wonderful journey with me for 40 years now.
Would I want to be young, energetic, and gorgeous again? Oh, hell, no.
Being young is just SO MUCH WORK. OMG, learn to this all over again? Start from scratch and figure whose true and who’s not? Find a carer? Discover who I really am again? I just don’t think so, the first time just about killed me. I might enjoy a few less aches and pains, but I am absolutely not jealous. I am glad they have it easier. I am glad it is getting better. I am thrilled to see the progress, but let them have what is in store for them. I’ve got just what I want and wouldn’t trade it for the world.
Bob LaBlah
“I have some very close friends who’ve made this wonderful journey with me for 40 years now.
Would I want to be young, energetic, and gorgeous again? Oh, hell, no.”
Well said. I hit the big 6-0 later on this year but I have felt that way since about age 52 (not wanting to be young again) when I accepted there aint a damn thing I can do that will stop me from maturing and it is for the better. We will all grow old no matter what and no gym or Andrew Christian jock strap will prevent it.
chris33133
I’m not jealous. I’m glad that many of today’s generation of gay folk (i.e., those living in some developed nations) will be able to live their lives without having to put up with the stuff I had to struggle against. But, as a wise old/ancient Spaniard wrote over a century ago: “those who ignore history are destined to repeat it.”
CastleSF
A bunch of guys over 50 lamenting about how hard it was when they were young and how wonderful their life is now that they are old. The only complaint is that the younger generation is not giving them the attention they feel they rightfully deserve. It’s the same old story from people over 50. After a while it does get boring.
S.anderson
Yes, isn’t it simply intolerable for those useless old dinosaurs telling us life gets better and stays better, rather than applauding some young dickhead who’s all “you olds are bitter and want me!” Jones seems to wrap his entire sense of superiority in his youth, and youth is a thing which everyone loses.
Heywood Jablowme
@Castle: No such worries, Castle boy.
There are SO many guys from your generation who have extreme “daddy issues” and they desperately want to get f*cked by “daddy.”
They keep me pretty busy. Ha ha ha ha ha.
CastleSF
@Heywood. It’s not an honorable thing to take advantage of unsuspecting young men who suffer from so-called daddy issues. To set the record straight, I have little against the older generation. I just don’t like the patronizing attitude some guys display when they constantly boast of how much good they have done in the 70s and 80s. That’s over three decades ago. Give it a rest. That mindset is simply off putting.
S.anderson
Old people mustn’t be patronizing, but young people may. Noted!
Heywood Jablowme
@CastleSF: They’re not “unsuspecting.” They tell me “F*CK ME DADDY” on Scruff, out of the blue. So I’m not taking advantage of them. They’re literally begging for it. Well, somebody’s got to take care of all these screwed-up millennial kids’ daddy issues (sigh), I guess it’s me. 🙂
And the really weird thing is, my Scruff profile doesn’t even say I’m into that! It doesn’t even say I’m looking for young guys (because I’m not, particularly). It doesn’t say anything along those lines. This is very much a side thing for me, not my main gig.
CastleSF
@Heywood. Your obliging enthusiasm with these young folks must have earned you a well deserved reputation. So refreshing to know someone with such a wide range appeal. It would be unfair not to acknowledge someone when they do a good job and provide excellent customer service.
Heywood Jablowme
@CastleSF: I wasn’t expecting such a nice Yelp review but thanks! Anyway, wouldn’t it be impolite of me to turn them down? – lol
S.anderson
Speaking for myself, I could do without the revisionism.
Where I live, a “liberal” USA capital city, “queer” doesn’t mean LGBTQ+. It means trans/non-binary now. And for whatever reason, the gay, lesbian and bi “CIS” people have largely fled the organizations. I speak as a person who has volunteered with most of the orgs, been an organizer in a couple, and worked in the gay bars extensively.
The T/NB people assert that if you don’t naturally embody hetero-normative behavior, then congratulations: you’re actually some other *gender*. Period. I mean, rather than just accept that people can be men or women without living up to cultural stereotypes. The T/NB people have no use for “CIS” people, and would rather not have them around with their old-timey way of thinking. Frankly, I find it old-fashioned to go back to the bad old days where the issue was thought that Gay and Lesbian people were confused about their gender. :/
The local “OUT Youth” organization has 30 or so trans-boys wearing Harry Potter glasses and names like Star, Scout, and Colt, a couple of trans-girls, and just 3-4 stubbornly GLB CIS kids. While I buy into the idea that T/NB and GLB people should stand together, seeing as we’re thrown into the same niche by our common homophobic enemies, I do feel that there ought to be an order of magnitude more “traditional” GLB kids in evidence. And no, I do not buy the notion that GLB kids are now welcomed in their schools and communities “these days” and don’t need a support system because, well, I’m not fucking crazy.
To hear today’s Queer leaders speak, you’d think the movement had practically no involvement by ordinary people. It was all drag queens, intersex and cha-cha-cha and la-la-la. This isn’t a “Queer Lives Matter” situation where it’s simply come time to appreciate those who traditionally played second fiddle. CIS people have been scourged for refusing to “embrace” their genders.
In fact, I even got the feeling that some of these Queer people don’t like GLB people at all. As in, as trans/non-binary people, they were heterosexual in their gender identity. And homophobes.
It’s absolutely stunning.
He BGB
I don’t know any old queen jealous of young queens. They can either have sex with one or be glad they don’t have to go through all that sh** again. As the cartoon says “it was HELL,says former child”.
dean089
I’ll just say “Bless his heart” and leave it at that.
S.anderson
Speaking for myself, I could do without the revisionism.
Where I live, a “liberal” USA capital city, “queer” doesn’t mean LGBTQ+. It means trans/non-binary now. And for whatever reason, the gay, lesbian and bi “CIS” people have largely fled the organizations. I speak as a person who has volunteered with most of the orgs, been an organizer in a couple, and worked in the gay bars extensively.
The T/NB people assert that if you don’t naturally embody hetero-normative behavior, then congratulations: you’re actually some other *gender*. Period. I mean, rather than just accept that people can be men or women without living up to cultural stereotypes. The T/NB people have no use for “CIS” people, and would rather not have them around with their old-timey way of thinking. Frankly, I find it old-fashioned to go back to the bad old days where the issue was thought that Gay and Lesbian people were confused about their gender. :/
The local “OUT Youth” organization has 30 or so trans-boys wearing Harry Potter glasses and names like Star, Scout, and Colt, a couple of trans-girls, and just 3-4 stubbornly GLB CIS kids. While I buy into the idea that T/NB and GLB people should stand together, seeing as we’re thrown into the same niche by our common homophobic enemies, I do feel that there ought to be an order of magnitude more “traditional” GLB kids in evidence. And no, I do not buy the notion that GLB kids are now welcomed in their schools and communities “these days” and don’t need a support system because, well, I’m not gnikcuf crazy.
To hear today’s Queer leaders speak, you’d think the movement had practically no involvement by ordinary people. It was all drag queens, intersex and cha-cha-cha and la-la-la. This isn’t a “Queer Lives Matter” situation where it’s simply come time to appreciate those who traditionally played second fiddle. CIS people have been scourged for refusing to “embrace” their genders.
In fact, I even got the feeling that some of these Queer people don’t like GLB people at all. As in, as trans/non-binary people, they were heterosexual in their gender identity. And homophobes.
It’s absolutely stunning.
Donston
Huh, what exactly does this rant have to do with the topic at hand? It seems like you just needed to get something off your chest and took this barely connected opportunity to do so. Yeah, there are some uncomfortable lgbtq topics that are rarely discussed at large and rarely discussed in-depth. Yes, self-accepting, self-idenitfying gay and gay-leaning men often get accused of being “closed-minded”, in some cases rightfully so. Yet, there is just as much resentment, self-resentment, homophobia, internalized homophobia, misandry, misogony, etc. coming from people who see themselves as non-cis or trans or merely queer (I “identify” as a homo-leaning queer). However, that is almost an entirely different discussion than this one.
S.anderson
Well Donston, it has to do with how the young generation dismisses the old generation so that’s spot-on as far as topics go.
Donston
But your rant had barely anything to do with that. If that was the primary point you were trying to make that’s not what actually came off.
S.anderson
Donston, sweetie. If you feel my points are too peripheral to the topic at hand, you can just disregard them. All you can do is make a person feel unappreciated. Frankly, If I had a [delete] button for my post, I still wouldn’t click it. But, thank you for staining my post so others will hesitate to engage it openly.
Notright
I respect older men. They have a lot they can teach us. I kinda have an older man that’s sort of my mentor (and no its not a sexual thing). I ask him for advice when it comes to my relationships and so far he’s been spot on. He knew this one dude was just using me long before I did.
Insofar as being jealous I think older generations ragging on younger ones is nothing new. I do think some of these younger cats need to learn a little more respect for their elders though. But there are also some older men that are dirty perverts and deserve what they get.
Doug
I’m so sick of narcissistic, entitled 20 and 30-year-olds thinking older gay men are envious or “jealous” of them. These guys are so afraid of getting older because all they have is their looks to rely on and they project it on to us. We fought hard for gay rights and I’m embarrassed at what we have to show for it now: a lot of young airheads with some of the lowest emotional intelligence scores I’ve ever seen.
ElPillo
Youth is wasted on the young indeed
Danny595
“We’ve reached an exciting turning point in LGBTQ history . . . For the first time in living memory, many queer kids are being treated in much the same way as other kids.”
So much fail. First fail: The Q stands for “queer” so if his only point is about “queer kids,” it wouldn’t implicate “LGBTQ history,” but rather Q history. This is the problem when you allow postmodernists to dominate your culture, as gay people have done. They abuse language. They have no regard for clarity or meaning. It’s all just jargon.
Second fail: “Queer” refers to a group of people who define themselves in opposition to conventional norms. By definition, they are alienated from the broader society in which they live. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t be “queer.” Accordingly, it is impossible that “queer kids” could be treated in much the same way as other kids. The author obviously is writing about gay or LGB youth, but he thinks it isn’t cool to say gay anymore.
S.anderson
It sort of hasn’t been cool to say ‘gay’ or ‘lesbian’ since the late 1980’s. There was a national org called “Queer Nation” which seized the media’s attention for a time, asserting that they’d gathered up all the various GLBT+ communities and gotten their agreement to seize the slur word “queer” and use it as the new generic term for ourselves. This was a surprise to most of those GLBT orgs, but in the spirit of solidarity, many went along with it. People who felt free not to call themselves “queers” got flack from the politically correct among them.
Years later, in my city, I find that the the puppet skins of the traditional GLBTQ+ orgs are now run by trans and non-binary people who have seized the term “Queer” once again, but to mean themselves. And they have a factually wrong, alternate history that they’re pushing. Traditionally GLB people are scarce, except in the bars.
I wrote more about this earlier; scroll back up.
S.anderson
A point I meant to add is that I think it’s high time that we accept the fact that same-sex admiration, attraction and sexual desire is more prevalent among people who pass for straight. You could say; that it’s not “queer” at all to have homosexual desires. That failing to fully embody your culture’s sex-role based stereotypes doesn’t mean you’re an alternate gender (which is the opposite of what the Queer movement of today asserts).
Donston
Once again, your post has barely anything to do with the actual topic and is more focused on trying to separate gay men from the rest of the pack. You are right in the sense that being “gay” never has been “cool” and is even less cool now and has always been limiting and remains so. But also, if your attractions, desires, passions, romantic instincts and romantic satisfaction are with your same “cis” gender or veers closely and that’s something you accept, then yeah, you’re very much “queer”.
There are many who are “gender fluid” or feel as if they have no gender that also feel far more connected to the “gay movement” than the trans or non-cis “movement”. So, they shouldn’t just be pushed aside.
While I think there are neccesary socialogical discussions that aren’t being had on a broad scale that need to be had (internalized homophobia, the homophobia from some trans people, hetero worship, how sense of gender may affect your sense of sexuality and vice versa) most of what you’re saying has a whiff of fem-phobia to it, shows an obsession with segregation, and once again, it’s barely connected to topic at hand.
S.anderson
Donston: you’re being a bit bossy. If you’re not in charge here, please stop directing me. Thanks for understanding.
Donston
It’s not about being “bossy”. It’s about all your comments on this page having very little to do with the topic at hand and being more of an excuse to rant about the some other sh*t. But okay, I’ll be “bossy”.
Danny595
@sanderson – Thanks for your comments. Good insights.
Notice the blather coming from Donston. Completely meaningless drivel. Words shift and bend to mean whatever he wants them to mean at any given moment: “We’re LGBTQ because the Ts “feel” attached to us and if you’re gay then you’re queer, (which makes the G redundant).” In Donsston’s world and apparently in the world of the blogger in the article above, it’s all just a mass of words and letters, whose meaning and usage change from year to year, month to month, feeling to feeling.
The problem is that this stuff matters. We can’t ignore it. These words and letters aren’t just some talking point or a sub-section in a party platform. They are how we define ourselves at the level of our very identity. If we were a corporation, these words and letters would be our articles of incorporation. If we were a physical body, these words and letters would be our DNA. It’s not something to be played with. When you replace “gay” with “queer” and you then fail to define “queer” or you have 6 rotating definitions, or if you define it to mean oppositon to societal norms, that has real and serious consequences, especially for LGB youth. It ought not to be a matter of trifling thought or casual feelings. But that’s what you get when postmodernists run the show. It is up to us – the boring, uncool gay, lesbian and bi people to set things right. That means disrupting, exposing and ultimately ending “LGBT” and “queer.”
Tobi
@S.anderson — Here in the UK there’s been a lot of discussion about dropping the T, due to LGBT organisations being ‘transjacked’, a survey by Metro showed 57% in favour of splitting. I was invited to a lunch recently where c. 100 gay men, mostly of a certain generation were discussing this, all of them having stopped funding and supporting LGBT groups because of the lack of focus on gay issues. I get the argument that in some countries, like the UK, there’s little left to fight for, we have ‘equality’, but many feel that there still big concerns that gay men want addressed, especially with the rise of political Islam and consequential response of neo-Nazis taking seats in parliaments across Europe.
S.anderson
@Tobi: I’ve long felt that Trans/Non-Binary people and LGB* make good comrades because of our common enemy, the homophobes, who consider us one and the same and put us through the same torture. Lord knows our relationship with drag queens has been enduring. However, I recognize that most Trans+ people are straight. I say that from a place of fully-embracing their gender identity. Also, I’ve witnessed the violence some T/NB are doing to LGB history and the animosity toward “CIS” people such as myself. The whiff of homophobia is rising. We’re not dealing with a new perspective whose time is dawning, we’re dealing with strategic revisionism.
My identity and my contributions to LGBT+ culture are worthy, and I will not be shoved aside out of a sense of solidarity or any other reason. I’m not “cranky” or “bitter”, folks. I’m WOKE.
*pardon my earlier use of “GLB” instead of “LGB”. The order of letters do not indicate priority. It’s sad that some insist otherwise.
Polaro
Wow, I’ve reached my quote for stupid. I’m going to have some bitter tea and rock my old self to sleep in a Lazy-Boy.
Daniel-Reader
It would be impressive if younger people picked some task to do – like getting rid of the governments on Earth that still violate human rights massively, or pick a project like disaster relief impacting their counterparts in other places on Earth – the LGBT Youth Centre in Tonga for example got zapped by the hurricane that came thru a couple days ago They are raising funds to rebuild it. Tonga – pop. 100,000 – criminalizes gay people and whips them so how about the entitled youth elsewhere help get the word out to help their peers in less fortunate circumstances to move the world forward even more.
Danny595
“LGBT Youth Centre” means “LGB people pay for the centre and do all the work, and Ts use the centre” Tongan LGB youth should thank the hurricane for eliminating an institution of colonization.
It is better to meet under tree as free LGB youth than to meet as a subservient class in an “LGBT” centre.
Daniel-Reader
Hey, Danny595, you are giving the same pat reply as the Russian bots do. I’ve worked at an LGBT Youth Center and it is not at all like your Russian bot description which tries to divide people using Transgender issues. LGBT Youth Center are used by LGBT and allied youth (i.e. straight friends, siblings, and cousins of LGBT kids, as well as straight kids with LGBT parents or other LGBT relatives). You seem to want to create a non-existent divide in the LGBT community for whatever political reason you have. Perhaps you should spend your time getting the Russian government to function instead of just having it feed Putin and his oligarchs at everyone else’s expense.
Daniel-Reader
Also, Danny595, if you bothered to get to know a wide range of transgender people you’d know they are just like everyone else trying to live life to the best of their ability, and many are LGB so trying to exclude them is absurd. Also, pretending that backwards cultures don’t lump LGBT people together anyway regardless of how much you wish to break LGBT apart means you need to just deal. Many LGB and allied people are non-gender conforming too, not just transgender people, which you’d know if you actually spent time with a large number of LGBT and allied people.
DCguy
This sounds like it could have been written by some GOP Troll. Discrimination is in the past? Hmmmm, that would explain all of those cases in the courts of people being fired for being lgbt, of businesses suing to get the right to discriminate, etc…
I’d be very curious to see if this is a standard type of article from this author because it sounds like the typical attempt to cause division that NOM or the RNC has been using.
draven
56 ….57 next month first day of spring. Been openly gay since I was 5 years old. I’m black and beautiful too. You only age if you don’t die. I’m 2 years retired. After 36 years male fashion model since I was 8 years old. Still model today. Been aqua fitness instructor for 35 years. I have aged well Father Time has been good to me. Great parents. Lived a great life. Very blessed in life so far. I’m engaged to a 27 year old guy. I actually look younger than him. Lol
Not into bars or clubs or social media or stuff like that. I like high end sports cars. Want to get pilot license. Love outdoors and sports. A lot of people have age issues. It’s funny. I blame the media in a way for that for portraying false images of the way we are. I’ll go to a male models call and there’s all these guys 25 years younger than me and I’ll get the job. Lololol. They don’t have a clue I’m almost 57 years old. Until I tell them and their amazed. I only look forward to the next 50+ years if I live to tell. I’m very blessed and I count my blessings and I don’t take life for granted. Thin line between beauty and ugly and love and hate. Young ones you only age if you don’t die. Just age well. My age people live life have fun. Create a new you as you get older. Hey I can’t wait to get to 62 to get SI. LOL so I can have a lot more fun. But in the mean time I’m still modeling. Jump starting a film/acting career and would like to take fashion design classes and learn how to fly a plane. Take care people life is awesome! Don’t let others tell you how to live.
CastleSF
Truth be told, pictures of perfection make me sick and wicked.
Bob LaBlah
I remember the days when GQ magazine used to feature older male models because they were the only ones who made enough money to afford those clothes. Not anymore it seems. Youth took over.
heckles202
Your boyfriend must be a really bad druggie/alchie if he, at 27 years of age, looks older than a 57 yr old. Yikes!
draven
I would never be jealous of anyone!
Naw that’s wasted energy.
WindsorOntario
I’m not seeing much of this jealousy because at the end of the day things aren’t any different. Gay men still only make up 3-5% of the male population. Same dating pool. Same people all the time. Same mannerisms, dress, same attitudes as before. Only the years change. All this stuff about marriage and yet very few gay men are getting married and worse – most don’t even know how to date. Fewer and fewer go to bars or gay social events so now you’re dealing with more socially awkward men who don’t know what they want, and they go onto these dating apps with absolute ‘deal breakers’ and requirements that are based on fantasy and not what real gay men live and look like. I’m seeing a much lonelier gay community that wants little to do with each other unless they ‘qualify’ – like you have to have a masters degree, expensive clothes, perfect body, expensive car/condo – all this fantasizing over straight college-aged athletes and we expect other gay men to come into our lives as sex objects and success objects. No wonder the gay community has the opiate addiction problem it does. Who wouldn’t want to do drugs to forget how awful we are to each other and how few of us are out there. We can’t do relationships, hell we can’t even do friendships.
I’m not jealous of the gay community. I’m very upset that we aren’t there for each other and we don’t care what happens to each other. Out of this 3-5% of the population we make up we’ve broken apart into subgroups that don’t like each other and pretend others don’t exist. We treat each other like toys that have no emotions and no feelings: just use him up, take as much as you can, leave without saying goodbye and forget you ever met him when you see him in public.
Sorry, that’s not a portrait of any community or age/income/whatever bracket that I’d be jealous of.
Elloreigh
Am I supposed to care what some younger gay person thinks of me? I find it rather silly to think that younger gay people would be grateful for my contributions that they know nothing about. I don’t live my life to be admired by the younger generation. I don’t fancy myself to be some sort of role model to them. I don’t want anything from them, and I doubt they want anything from me. My horror stories of how bad life was for me at their age wouldn’t be relevant to how they experience life today, or where they’re going tomorrow. I can’t be bothered to be envious of that.
Elloreigh
And if anyone cares, I’m 55 and married almost three years, to a slightly older man.