Remember when Barack Obama‘s press mouthpiece made clear the president wouldn’t intervene in military dismissals based on Don’t Ask Don’t Tell? And how Obama’s military mouthpiece made clear the president has no plans to actually repeal the policy? And how Obama’s Pentagon mouthpiece Geoff Morrell just today made explicitly clear there are NO PLANS to end DADT? Well it looks like Obama is getting his wish. In addition to the very public dismissals of folks like Dan Choi and Sandy Taso comes the firing of fighter pilot Lt. Colonel Victor Fehrenbach.
Fehrenbach has served Kuwait, attacked Taliban targets, and flew in Iraq, racking up a total of 88 combat missions over 400 hours. He’s received a number of medals, including one that recognizes his heroism. And now?
He’s being fired.
Silly Fehrenbach, meanwhile, originally planned to go away quietly under DADT, but instead thought he could battle his DADT discharge and filed challenges in September expecting incoming president Obama would end the policy. WRONG.
Aubrey Sarvis, Executive Director of the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network: “Since 1987, when Fehrenbach entered Notre Dame on a full Air Force ROTC scholarship, the government has invested twenty-five million dollars in training and equipping him to serve his country, which he has done with what anyone would agree was great distinction.”
If you’re feeling frustration and helplessness right now, you’re justified. THIS IS GETTING EVEN MORE RIDICULOUS EVERY DAY. These men and women are heroes. The best of the best. And our commander-in-chief has absolutely no plans to let them continue keeping our nation safe. Disgraceful.
dgz
what an awesome guy. this gets more upsetting every day — glad that Rachel isn’t giving up on this story, though.
dgz
sorry for the double post and my extreme superficiality… but that man is absolutely stunning.
Edge
This pisses me off the chart. I wonder if they already knew then took advantage of his service then axed him so he wouldn’t get his DESERVED retirement benefits.
Paul
So why are any of us surprised at the Obama administration’s silence on all things GLBTQ? The more things change the more they stay the same. Obviously, we don’t have a friend in the White House. Time to pick up our toys and move on to friendlier playgrounds.
mb00
@Paul: I agree with you Paul. I’m done playing, this man will no longer get my support. Not until makes good on his promises.
D.C
*Cries
Gays aren’t allowed to fight Bush’s Sloppy Second Wars?
Wait, why am I crying again?
D.C
Oh yeah and btw, the Democrats will continue to get the gay vote as long as the republicans anti-gay platform exist. Sure there are those who honestly don’t see the difference between the two parties but the rest of us who are living on earth, experiencing everything outside our asses can see and feel it.
Just saying.
Rhydderch
@Paul: So where you going Paul? Gonna vote for Nader?
TANK
You can feel the difference? IT’s something, as bush replied when asked about his faith…that you have to feel to understand, right? As to seeing things, what things are you seeing?
D.C
You hear that sound? Is that the Green Party coming to gay’s rescue?
No. Just some jerk talking shit. Those kinds of people are never any help.
Hey Queerty, whats the name of that political party tied to the main organizations that have been leading the cause to advance gay rights. Or that political party that has been the main organization to pass gay marriage where its legal? Or the political party that helped overturn the sodomy laws and the bans against adoption? It must be the libertarian party! No? What about the socialist party? No? Not them either.
Boy. I’m in the dark. Someone help me out. Unless your idea of help means turning me into a Freeper.
dgz
@james james: either she was lying, or she was misled by O’s constant overtures to us. i’d guess the latter SINCE SHE’S GAY.
but you have a point; that’s why it’s so dangerous to elect someone with virtually no political track-record.
james james
@dgz: she could possibly be bi or bi-curious. she talks openly about her girl crush on megan fox but she also talks about her attraction to that guy from green day. she seems like the bi until 30 then get married and have kids type. i wouldn’t vote for an anti-choice woman but can appreciate her stance on a the other issues like 2nd amendment rights, gay marriage and dadt. for 24, the girl makes some sense and is very likeable but she’s in for a media bashing soon, i’m sure.
dgz
@james james: well, possibly. but i think it’s safe to assume she’s a fully-fledged lesbian, because she’s already 36 and has been with her partner for 10 years (and self-identifies as such). and yes, the right-wing media types already hate her… but not as much as they hate keith!
james james
woops i thought this was the megan mccain post. yes, madbrow is a lesbian sorry.
but it is not just right wingers who can’t stand either of those two talking heads … many people can’t stand them. they are the same as hannity or limbaugh … all they do is turn everything into “Dem vs. Reps and it’s all over the TV day and night and everyone gets into this charade on the TV blathering on about idiocty while bankers loot the country and are getting billions upon billions upon billions in bail out money while everyone loses their jobs.
madbrow only talks about stuff like this on her show when she see’s bloggers are bitching about it. she’s always late to the party … and always shows up drunk … literally.
D.C
Jesus Christ James, take a xanax (chill pill).
After that, see a therapist because obviously you’re not a very happy person.
james james
@D.C: Obot … you take a “chill pill” you hep cat
Josh
Ahh, I love trolls.
On an unrelated topic having nothing to do with internet trolls, I think that Obama knows we aren’t gonna suddenly vote Republican, so he can blow smoke up our collective asses and we’ll still vote for him over whatever Hypocritical religionista the Rethugs put up in 4 years.
Why the hell should he pay attention to a bunch of people his openly-admitted close-felt religious fantasies tell him are sinners bound for hell? He needed our vote and now that he doesn’t need us, he’s throwing us aside. Like every politician has in recent memory.
I voted for him on the basis that he was going to be a real agent of change and now, I’m wondering if, as South Park once posited long ago, my vote was really cast to decide between a turd sandwich and a giant douche…
Todd
Thank You Sir, may I have another
On the bright side we are ALL invited to a party. The DNC LGBT Leadership Council Dinner. It’s on June 25th! JOE BIDEN will be there. And best of all …I can hardly contain myself…The Mandarin Oriental Hotel…fanccccy smancccccy. Geisha theme?
I wonder if Joe will tell us the hilarious joke about up to an estimated 65,000 people locked in a closet, while his boss whispers, I’ll let you out, when it doesn’t cost me anything.
All this for the low, low, low, price of $1000. But if you can you can have the privilege of giving a smidgen over thirty grand! What a bargain! But tickets will go fast, so get em while there hot.
For the poor, unfortunate ones who cannot attend, Email the DNC and let them know how much you will will donate.
james james
most bloggers are greatful for trolls b/c it keeps things looking fun and busy.
anyone who voted for Barack is really gullable. no wonder they’re on a rampage. who ever believed his nonsense really needs to stop popping the “chill pills” …
INCognito
I think that at this point the only thing that would get Obama moving to do something with DADT would be a mass coming out by the gays in the military. I bet he’d start moving then… @sshole. He will not get my vote. I’ll still vote for Dems on local level, but at least with a Republican Pres. I know where I stand.
InExile
The bigot and chief should be ashamed of himself! To let a decorated fighter pilot be fired for being gay is insane. What, are they worried he will have gay sex by himself while flying a fighter jet? Absolutely absurd!!!!!
CUT OFF THE CASH TO THE DEMOCRATS AND PROTEST, PROTEST, PROTEST!
Jamie
Maybe next time there’s an election the gay community will actually think instead of reacting to buzzwords, and vote the best candidate as the Dem’s nominee.
Yeah, right. Who am I kidding?
Alexa
@Jamie: but, really, how do we know until they’re actually in office how they will react? I voted for Obama in the presidential race because the alternative was a Republican, and one who had no problem flip flopping or having a complete moron as his VP. I voted for Clinton in the primary because she seemed the better of the two frontrunners, but I don’t know that she would actually have been any different to Obama if she had won.
timncguy
why is it always… who are you going to vote for instead, the repug? Will that work out better for you?
Why is it up to the gays to vote for the dem and get NOTHING for it in order to save everyone else from the horror of the repugs?
Why don’t the apologists and non gays convince the dems to do something to EARN our votes in order to save them from the repugs?
Paula Brooks
I m throwing a little party outside the Mandarin Oriental Hotel on June 25th! JOE BIDEN will be there.
I’d like to invite you to all join me… http://lezgetreal.com/?p=13200
Maybe we can get Lt Choi and Lt. Colonel Victor Fehrenbach to come too
Bob R
The Democrats are pretty sure they’ll get LGBT votes, really, like African-Americans and other minorities, where else are we going to go? Unless there develops a viable third party, which is not very likely in our system, we’re just taken advantage of by Obama and the Democrats. One way we can hurt them though is financially. We don’t have to give them a penny of our hard earned cash or attend their events and cheer. We can attend and jeer, and I would encourage that. We also continue to expose their lies as much as we expose the lies and insanity of the GOP. BS Barry is just a black version of Slick Willy Clinton. Remember all the great things he did for us? Well, expect about the same from old BS Barry. And for those who think Obama is the Messiah who has a “master plan” and “works in mysterious ways”, I’m afraid you’ll find your man-god has feet of clay.
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com
The facts are WORSE than Maddow reports, tho she is not the first commentator to only “hear” half of the story. The OTHER, mindboggling half is this:
Obama has gone from simply standing by while people like Lts. Choi, Tsao, & Fehrenbach are discharged [when he has Congressional authority under 10 United States Code 12305 to stop them in the interest of national security] to replacing his old promise of fighting to get DADT repealed with a NEW promise to actively DEFEND it in court!
From yesterday’s “Wall Street Journal”:
“A Justice Department spokeswoman said THE GOVERNMENT WOULD DEFEND [DADT] at the trial over Maj. [Margaret] Witt’s dismissal. . . . White House spokesman Ben LaBolt added: ‘Until Congress passes legislation repealing the law, THE ADMINISTRATION WILL CONTINUE TO DEFEND THE STATUTE WHEN IT IS CHALLENGED IN THE JUSTICE SYSTEM.” – “Wall Street Journal”, May 19, 2009.
Before anyone responds, “But they have no choice,” they DO have a choice! They have the choice of “the other side” in any lawsuit not to act in which case the court typically automatically rules in favor of, in this case, the plaintiff.
That would be Major Witt whom representatives of the Obama administration are promising to go into court and say,
“We want her fired.”
slider
Nothing that Nobama does surprises me. His homophobia, throw us under the bus began in the primary season and continued through the early days of his Administration. DADT, along with DOMA,are the two biggest homophobic policies enacted by the Clintons and continued by Nobama….who will do NOTHING to stop them.
At least Bush Dept of Defense in the Iraqi and Afghanistan Wars stopped discharges once the War was underway (except of course for the major stupidity of discharging 40 Gay linguists)
Obama has a way to stop this….stand up and say to Congress my priority is for you to repeal DADT and I will lobby to make sure Congress does and show how it is a detriment to the national security of this country.
Obama took our money and our votes and is counting on continuing to do that and say ok, if you leave where you going to go….sorta of like the abusive husband taunting his much battered wife….
I am proud to have not voted for Obama and will do all I can to continue to speak out against him. It is time to get active and start using the civil disobedience methods of MLK, Jr. and the 1950s and 1960s Civil Rights and organize from the grass roots on up..we surely can’t count on the likes of HRC….they are a joke….
we need more of the likes of Lambda and Servicemembers Legal Defense Network and it is time to get active..
The old saying “actions speak louder then words” is true…Obama gave us lip service and continues to batter us with his homophobic conduct.
Had enough? I sure hope so and we get Mad as Hell and organize to force Obama and the Congress to do what is just, right and gave us the same constitutional rights as straight citizens.
So much for a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress standing with us…as they drive the bus over us again and again..just like the Clintons and the Democratic Congress did in 1993 and 1994 with DADT and again in 1996 with DOMA when President Clinton bragged to Christian broadcast radio that he saved traditional marriage, while of course continuing to cheat on his wife.
Dabq
Wow, this guy has it going on and should be the face of DADT on tv and radio, since he is far better a spokesman for why its wrong and should be illegal, and his words were powerful, unlike that Choi guy who was just awful when he lisped it out.
JJ
@Dabq: you mean because he is white, douche.
Jaroslaw
I’m waiting for our resident expert Professor VP to say this guy was discharged because our Air Force doesn’t need fighter pilots. (see all his hogwash on the posts about Dan Choi)
atdleft
@Josh: Yeah, I feel the same right now. I’m just so disillusioned with all things Obama right now. I’ve been trying hard to keep a level head, but the more his Administration throws us under the bus, the more I wonder why I worked so hard to get him elected.
Yes, I said it. I’m REALLY PISSED over this.
AlwaysGay
Victor Fehrenbach is a better spokesperson for repealing DADT because unlike Dan Choi, Victor was discharged because another person told the military he is gay which is the experience of almost all gay servicepeople discharged. Also Victor doesn’t have annoying facial twitches and can speak clearly.
glennmcgahee
If anybody had doubts about Obama, they should realize now that he’s not going to do anything for the gays. Why should he when some will defend him no matter what. He’s got an election to win after all. That would be the upcoming 2012 election, he’s working pretty hard on that. Just take a good look at all his religious advisers, his expansion of Bush’s Faith Based Initiatives. He needs thwe afro-American churches you know. Thats where he began his last campaign, with Donnie McClurkin spewing his vile anti-gay rhetoric. Some of us actually were paying attention, but not many. Alot of blogs were receiving big money through his advertizing budget. The money became more important than the issues.
atdleft
@AlwaysGay: Please don’t go there. Really. PLEASE. DON’T. GO. THERE.
We don’t need another race riot on this blog. What’s your beef with Dan Choi?
Dabq
@JJ: Not at all I have eyes and ears, he is a better spokesman, as for douching, I guess you must have the need to do it daily in between tricks, and, hence the reason you have no clue about real world matters, get back to me whn you grow up, thanks now.
Dabq
@atdleft: I don’t know how this can become a race war, Choi was not a good public speaker and his message was muddled and cloudy, that has nothing to do with his race.
glennmcgahee
And another thing, we need to finally realize that just because a person had a “D” by their name does not mean they support gay rights. How about not buying into the media myth that its shirts vs. skins all the time. There are plenty of Republicans that would openly support us for our support, same for the Dems. How about looking at the individual rather than the party. The media perpetuates the R Vs D battle. What would they have to talk about if we didn’t buy into it along with the rest of the sheeple. Abraham Lincoln was a Republican.
JJ
@Dabq: That was pretty fresh. You’re right, I have no clue about real world matters, like race. Your suggestion that Fehrenbach REPLACE Choi as the face of DADT is absolutely ridiculous. Fehrenbach is standing on Choi’s shoulders, using the press Choi got as leverage for his own case. I don’t understand why there needs to be a SINGLE face of DADT. I mean, doesn’t the argument that there’s strength in numbers matter at all? It is so typical of you, most likely a GWM, to want a white, male patriarchal leader. Jesus Christ.
Alec
@glennmcgahee: Yes, I’m for pro-gay Republicans. Only problem is, for years their presence stalled any movement for gay rights. Not only would bills die in committee thanks to conservative Republican control, but they would also vote to confirm judges that were hostile to LGBT issues.
rigs
Obama has been a flop on this, it’s not hard! A LARGE MAJORITY SUPPORTS REPEAL, but the Military Brass doesn’t so Obama is wimping out. I hate to say it… but I bet Hillary or even John Edwards would be doing more
Dabq
@JJ: Actually I could care less who the face is, or the color, other than the fact that I want someone who comes off as a strong spokesman who gets the message off and that the public can say this is just a wrong policy, and, sorry, if that offends you, but, Choi didn’t have that, he came off as just bitter.
And, I think its a hoot that I’m now pro white, when others have said I’m pro black, LOL, I’m pro positive gay images, nothing more.
Landon Bryce
@Dabq:
How sad it is that you cannot even comment positively on Fehrenbach without attacking Choi. Your hate for Choi may or may not be motivated by race, but it is disgusting and disturbing.
slider
Glenn…a lot of us were paying attention. Even my sister said to me during the primaries and Election, “you aren’t going to vote for Obama and the Gay community isn’t are you given that he is extremely homophobic and they way he has acted etc.”
I did not nor will I ever vote for Obama.
We must continue framing the issues and equal rights under the law and fairness and equality, justice and stand up and stop giving money to the Democratic Party and start giving to groups like Lambda and SLDN and organize at the grass roots, we will always be thrown under the Bus..I learned my lesson with the Clintons and sadly we don’t seem to have learned our history since it is repeating itself with Nobama who says “NO” to our equal and constitutional rights but “YES we can” when he asks us and we stupidly provide him with campaign money.
It will take a bipartisan effort to end DADT and DOMA….time we learned to find the GOP allies that are out there and build from there. Look at the likes of GOP Congresswoman Ileana Ross Leiten from Florida….who is one of the first sponsors of repealing DADT….there are more….but not just in Congress..time to build from the local level on up….it is what the Christian right did and the Civil Rights movement….why we don’t I will never understand..but time we begin since we can’t count on the national Democratic Party one bit…..they only count on our money and take for granted our votes because we haven’t been smart in working our issues and finding allies in both major political parties….after all when it came to the passage of the Civil Rights laws in the 1960s..they were only passed because the GOP members of Congress voted overwhelmingly in favor of them…Had LBJ just counted on the Democrats there would be no Civil Rights Laws…since a majority of the Democratic members of Congress OPPOSED those laws..
time to wake up and smell the coffee and build coalitions from the local levels on up so that the likes of Obama has no choice but to see the light and pass and sign into law what should have always been…..fairness, justice and equal rights under the law.
edgyguy1426
These stories have to be brought front and center every day (for they happen every day) just like they used to post the faces of those service members killed in combat. We need to run these faces over and over and put the pressure on whomever it takes to make a change
edgyguy1426
@Dabq: Lisped it out? Did you really say that? Ugh. That was just wrong on so many levels.
Dabq
@Landon Bryce: Mirror, mirror, check yourself with your own vile, disgusting racism dude, I could care less that he is Asian, he may be your cup of tea, but not mine, deal with that and move on. You bitter, home bound posters who hate any black , yep you boo, thread here really need a clue that not every gay person is going to be or need your stamp of approval as a spokesperson on gay issues, as I have yet to see one coherent post from you on anything other than bashing anyone who does not walk your way.
Man up and grow up, or step aside with the nonsense.
The Gay Numbers
This is so sad. Partially for this guys situation, and partially, because there are gays who really could not give a shit. It’s not surprising. Even during the time of slavery, there were slaves who collaborated. The same with Jews in WWII. To all those collaborating this, whatever you rationalization, there is something wrong with you. You do not see it. You probably never will. Crazy people rarely see that they are crazy. But there is something wrong with the morality of this country and you.
TANK
Yeah, except in ww II when a kapo was isolated, he or she was usually brutally murdered. That will never happen amongst gay turncoats. It’s all pretty hopeless. We are at the whim of the democrats, and there’s nothing we can do because of the kind of minority we are.
michael
@D.C: For me, if the Democrats are not going to work for my equal rights then I have to look at other parts of my life and ask myself who benefits me in that area. As a high income professional from an affluent family the Republicans are much more helpful to me. They will help keep the tax burden on the middle class and off of me. They will work to keep inheritance taxes lower, off shore tax shelters alive etc. I don’t think the Democrats are going to stop the war in the middle East or are they going to make sure justice is served for those who perpetrated torture and they are just as much for spying on the citizens of the U.S. as the Republicans were. So if living well is my only revenge then the Republicans are more likely to help me achieve that because I don’t see where I am getting anything beneficial from the Democrats. My higher self philosophy would like to see a world where taxes are fair, even if that does not serve me as well personally, where everyone has access to health care and war is only used as a last resort. But I cannot accept being trampled upon anymore without some benefit. I am just tired of being the abused co-dependent of a fucked up society.
The Gay Numbers
God, now for b.s. about the Republicans. If you believe the Republicans are going to help you- then you are Grade A delusional. Please stop being so fucking stoopid.
Basil
Thank you Michael. That is exactly how I am feeling right now.
Mark
Yes, yes, yes. The gay community is all up in arms about this latest firing. But let’s be clear about a few things.
1. The vast majority of you posting here have never served.
2. The vast majority of you posting here just want something to bitch about – and have nothing of substance to support.
I served in the USMC. And I give generously to several nationally recognized gay-positive orgs.
This issue is FAR more complex than you all think it is. You think Obama can waltz into DC with his grin and toss around a few executive orders to stop this from happening.
Sorry, folks. Since 99% of you never served in the military you have no idea how complex this issue is. The military is run by fundamentalist Christians. RUN BY THEM. At the very highest levels. That’s been the case for DECADES. Count ’em. In excess of 30 years the far right Christian fundamentalists have had a stranglehold over our military. Rumsfeld himself even placed Bible verses into the intelligence briefings that Bush received.
Remember Clinton? The Bill one? Well, he waltzed in and tried to change this back in the 90s within his first 100 days. What did it get us? A fucking Christian backlash. That’s what it got us. He had no executive order pen to stop it then. Obama doesn’t have the power now either. Sorry, Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com. Code 10235 has nothing whatsoever to do with DADT. Not a thing. This is 100% a Congressional move. The Executive branch has no authority to strike down DADT any more than you or I have.
Here’s what’s so. Just this morning Joe Solmonese told me to my face, across a breakfast table, that the Obama admin has had someone from HRC (or himself) in the WH EACH AND EVERY WEEK since he was inaugurated. In the 8 years of the Bush admin no one from HRC ever was invited to the WH. Not once. There is movement for our causes like no time in history. This is the time to support the Obama admin. We have an ally in DC and all you people can do is complain that things aren’t happening fast enough.
Get off your fucking high horses. DADT is a fundamentalist Christian creation. If you think they’re going away with a stroke of a pen, you have never even met a fundie.
In addition, have any of you ever been to DC? Ever? Have you ever talked with your congressman? Ever? Have you ever had a conversation with Republicans who have serious difficulties walking away from Christianity? Ever? Did any of you ever have a course on civics? Do you know how politics works? It’s a giant game of horse trading. You have to get people on board to make sea changes. You have to get bills out of committee. You have to work deals. You have to move people to your side. When Christian fascist GOPers dig their heels in, they can make life hell for everyone. Just look at what they’re doing right now with healthcare. Do you really think they’re going to let gays serve openly in the US military when the highest ranking officers are Bible-toting, Bible-verse spewers? Not a chance.
Educate yourself before you post here. Sheesh.
michael
@The Gay Numbers: Do you mean do I believe the Republicans are going to help me achieve gay rights? Of course I don’t. They use the Christsian reich to help win their elections, a huge, middle class, homophobic portion of the population who do not want us to have that. But a real Republican is about $$$$$ and because the wealthy are such a small portion of the population they need a group to put them in office. Most real Republicans could care less if we got equal rights. They just want their taxes to stay low and the corporations they invest in to be as free of government interference as possible. So no, I am not stupid enough to think the Republicans are going to help me when it comes to equal rights, but the Democrats will hurt whats left of what I have and thats my pocket book. I have far more friends in my wallet than it appears I have in the Democratic party.
The Gay Numbers
Mark=idiot. And not Mark I do not care what you said after you seemed to think equality is a product of having served. I don’t give a shit if you served or not, and I mostly believe you are lying.
The Gay Numbers
Michael=delusional
michael
@Mark: I’m a bit confused here about whose on their “high horse”. So why doesn’t your dear friend “Joe” come out before the gay community and say that DADT is not going to happen instead of his bullshit telling us that he believes Obama is working for us behind the scenes? Oh, yes, thats not going to get him invited to a weekly tea party at the White House now is it? Nor is it going to help keep the checks rolling in to the HRC. Why should we keep giving money them? And you tell us we are supposed to support a president who tells us nothing about what he is doing on our behalf? Trust is something earned, only a fool submits themselves to trust someone who shows no evidence of that. And we are supposed to throw our support at Obama based on some anonymous claim, basically hear say at best, by an anonymous commenter on an internet blog? Its almost comical how everything to do with gays has become so “secretive”. In fact I think I will go play my “Secret Agent Man” record right now as somehow it seems quite appropriate.
michael
@The Gay Numbers: An impotent response to someone who is obviously incapable of a real one.
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com
@Mark:
I luv it when others presume to tell people that “you don’t know what you’re talking about” only to prove that THEY are the ones who don’t AND, in the process demonstrate they aren’t even respondind to what one actually said.
1. I wrote, Obama “has Congressional authority under 10 United States Code 12305 to stop [discharges] in the interest of national security.”
I never said, as you claim, that 12305 said anything specifically to do with DADT. Nor that he could “strike down DADT.”
Here, again, is the exact language of 12305:
“the PRESIDENT may suspend ANY provision of law relating to promotion, retirement, OR SEPARATION applicable to ANY MEMBER OF THE ARMED FORCES who the President determines is essential to the national security of the United States.”
Note, it does NOT say, “UNLESS their separation is under DADT.”
Ignoring for the moment your gross ignorance about Clinton and the timeframe and evolution of DADT, note, too, that it wasn’t any of US who first suggested that Obama should start fighting right away to convince Congress to repeal DADT. We’re simply following HIS own outline, in which, by the way he said nothing about Xtians being an insurmountable obstacle:
” As president, I WILL WORK WITH CONGRESS and PLACE THE WEIGHT OF MY ADMINISTRATION BEHIND ENACTMENT OF THE MILITARY READINESS ENHANCEMENT ACT … I WILL TASK THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT AND THE SENIOR COMMAND STRUCTURE IN EVERY BRANCH OF THE ARMED FORCES WITH DEVELOPING AN ACTION PLAN for the implementation of a full repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. And I WILL DIRECT MY SECRETARIES OF DEFENSE AND HOMELAND SECURITY TO DEVELOP PROCEDURES FOR TAKING RE-ACCESSION REQUESTS … That work should have started long ago. IT WILL START WHEN I TAKE OFFICE. America is ready to get rid of the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy. ALL THAT IS REQUIRED IS LEADERSHIP.”
Note, not 150 days after I take office; not 300; not a two years.
Note, not “and I will keep discharging gays myself and defend DADT in court.”
Note, not “unless the military, Xtian or not, doesn’t want to.”
You have every right to believe that he will EVENTUALLY do the right thing.
But do not fucking attack my intelligence [irregardless of the fact that I have been involved with this issue for 34 years] or deny the legal and behavioral FACTS that exist independent of either of us in the process.
Mike
@Mark: Actuallly, Major General Glen Shaffer, a director for intelligence at the Pentagon, came up with the idea for the biblical quotations, and Rumsfeld just used them as a way to get chummy with Bush.
Also, I don’t care how many times the Obama administration has had an HRC staff member over, of if they let them sleep in the Lincoln bedroom. The HRC is worthless, as are most of our major LGBT organizations: all the care about is funding their own jobs, and fancy dinners, and awards shows.
Jim
@Paul: I agree. He used us to get elected, lied and then turned into Bush the third.
Ryan
FOR SALE:
One dozen HRC exclusive Radko “Reichen & Lance’s First Christmas” ornaments.
Best offer or trade.
The Gay Numbers
Michael=Delusional
Mark=Full of shit
Chris
I am glad that we as a nation are at least hearing about these discharges. How many people were discharged years ago when we never even heard about? By getting their stories out to the public and raising awareness, Obama is going to realize that he can change this law……I hope.
tofer david
obama is just too busy guys. he has way too many things on his plate. no one in the white house has any time to draft an executive order. obama has no time to sign that order given all that is on his plate. word is, is that he has a photo op with the ncaa division I women’s basketball team.
slider
Michael…you are correct…ironic that George W. Bush used that provision to slow and stop discharges when he was President and needed all hands on deck, so to speak, in the military…such that DADT discharges went down when he was President. Even Bush figured out it was stupid to discharge military personnel, even Gay ones….I mean even 60 Minutes reported on the fact that even after Gay soldiers came out that they were not discharged.
Nobama need only direct that provision be made operable and the discharges stop. Then the President has to really get behind his own lying words and lobby Congress to pass the repeal of DADT, which legislation is pending. Where is Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid and all the Democrats who control Congress? Hiding and of course sending out requests for our money..Hell NO to those lying bastards!!
rick
who outed him?
BrianZ
Absolutely fucking inexcusable that this policy is still being _enforced_. It is equally fucking absurd that Congress has not
_acted_.
What astounds me even further is that I still read posts defending this lack of action. You bitches rant and rave about how we’re going to get all this and all that from the Democrats in DC and yet they don’t even have the balls to defend the queers out there putting their ass on the line for us all. It’s beyond disgusting and I hope your assholes fall out.
michael
@BrianZ: No flowery words could have made the point better than you have. I hope you ass holes fall out, I’ve got find a way to that one! LMFAO!
michael
@The Gay Numbers:
THE GAY NUMBERS= simpleton
SM
I keep hearing you all blame Obama Obama Obama like he is a king or something.
How much pressure are you all putting on CONGRESS constantly to do something. Ted Kennedy is supposed to be back in Congress soon, that should help.
Clinton failed on Healthcare so I doubt Obama will touch social issues until after Healthcare. I’m not saying it is right but if you look where Clinton did not get support you see he is up against a wall. Clinton caved and came up with Dont Ask Dont Tell too.
Go to your CONGRESS people constantly and the legislative process. You can’t just lash out all the time and think Obama will just sign something.
Mark
LOL! Joe is not my friend. We just had breakfast. It was a lovely day in Chicago today.
All of you are proving my point. Bitch. Complain. Be outraged. And…don’t do anything. Don’t talk to your congressman. Just bitch. Don’t organize. Just complain. Don’t write letters. Don’t make calls. Trash talk on blogs instead. Hate on Obama. Wish for someone else in the WH… like who… oh, yeah. McCain might have worked in our favor! Or maybe Ms. Triangulation herself, Hillary.
Those that dissed my previous post didn’t bother to address my main point: FUNDIE Christians run the military. It’s clear none of you have been in the military to know that. 🙁 And clearly none of you have ever been in any sort of government position to know how difficult it is to get support from the GOP for sweeping changes. 🙁 Did NONE of you watch the hearings during the Clinton admin? The ones that resulted in DADT? YOU HAVE TO GET SUPPORT FOR SWEEPING CHANGES. Nothing is simple in DC. Nothing. Clinton went too fast, too soon. Obama is not making that mistake. It’s entirely possible that Obama is learning from others. Imagine that.
You’ll note that Obama can’t just whip out a pen and VOILA, healthcare is fixed. Wheeeee! See how simple thing are? Just grab a pen. Write an executive order. Bypass ALL OF CONGRESS and your day is done. Obama can’t even discuss, in passing, a SCOTUS nominee without the threat of a filibuster. His executive order pen is ineffective against that, too. That pen is not going to rescind DADT no matter how long anyone has worked to dig up United States Codes. If it could be done it would have already been done.
Support the current administration. The WH is in our court right now. More than the Bush admin ever was. Fight against fundamentalist Christians and we will win this thing. Call your congressman and tell them what you support the repeal of DADT. DON’T support national gay rights orgs if you don’t believe in their cause. Don’t give them money. But…I dare anyone to name one other national organization that has any sort of lobbying efforts in DC that works for gay rights – and that works with congressmen to get them ON OUR SIDE. Name one org that does that. Have you worked for them? Have you been to DC to lobby for them? Have you given money to them? Have you supported legislative efforts in any way? I dare say no. I dare say that complaining about things is far easier for most of you.
Again, I recommend a heavy dose of Gov’t 101 and at least one visit to the Halls of Congress to find out how things are done in DC. **Magical thinking is for Christians.** For us, it’s hard work.
Methiso
Mark, go suck a cock.
Obama gets no votes in my household. We are not recognized by him.
Chicagoans who STILL cream in their pants at the mention of Obama are the worst.
IL makes me ILL with its missing agenda towards civil unions /marriage equality.
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com
@Mark:
You’re a spectacular tape loop with the White House logo on it.
Repeating one misrepresentation of the facts right after another because Massa tell you to.
“Clinton went too fast, too soon. Obama is not making that mistake.”???? Sorry, Marcia, wrong AGAIN!
“Many see Clinton’s error as coming out too soon on gays in the military, guns blazing, without laying the groundwork by consulting with military brass. But IT’S A MYTH that Clinton moved too quickly and didn’t consult the military. The new president met with the Joint Chiefs right after both the election and his inauguration. They just didn’t like what they were hearing, so they balked. Clinton’s resolve weakened. He called for a 6-month “study period” that allowed the opposition to rally and fester. CLINTON’S ERROR WAS NOT MOVING TOO QUICKLY–IT WAS MOVING TOO SLOWLY. Indeed, it was during his proposed six-month “time-out” that religious conservatives hijacked the debate, eroded public support for change, and defeated the president.” – History professor Nathaniel Frank, DADT expert and author of “Unfriendly Fire.”
And in your ruthless tactics to shill for Obama you keep misrepresenting [aka lying about] what I said. I did not say the stroke of a pen would ” strike down” OR “rescind” DADT. I said it would stop DADT discharges until Congress acts.
Nothing you have said, nor could say, proves that not a fact. Simply not liking what you hear puts you in the same league with the 1993 Joint Chiefs and Xtian Antigay Industry.
And in the demeaning zeal with which you betray your gay brothers and sisters being discharged EVERY DAY by Obama you make Madonna Queens and Claymates look like amateur deaf, dumb, and blind obsessives.
Methiso
@tofer david:
too much on his plate ?
yes, because thinking like an empathetic human-being comes after being a waffling career politician
shove those full plates up yer ass — you weasel
Chris
@Methiso: @Methiso: @Methiso: @Methiso: WHATS WRONG WITH YOU???? Can’t you make your poInt WITHOUT the childish name calling?
Bubba
After he successfully killed people on orders from draft-dodger W, the military unjustly throws him out simply because he is a homosexual. It does not get much more pathetic than that folks. Fubar!
That man is like Socrates, or the Christians thrown to lions in the roman coliseums, even Jesus. Thankfully, has a sound mind, body and soul, and his worth is proven all around. He also has a dick and balls, which is more than can be said for the dishonorable wimps that threw him out!
D.A.D.T. should be thrown out.
(Thank God he is not physically fucked up like those disabled veterans with out hands, legs or arms – I’d go postal!)
troy
@Mark: So yes, we as gays are fools. Fools to have put so many of our eggs in the HRC basket. Lets face it, any company that hired a lobbying organization and it turned out results like the HRC has, that organization would have been canned in a year. And Joe S. of HRC fame has all the conviction of a piece of toast.
Now let me tell you something about the “bitching” that you are bitching about happening on internet post. This “bitching” has you call it is energy and energy is what is needed to take action. Ever heard the term “money talks & bullshit walks”? Well most folks start there, they speak out with there checkbooks, they speak out with their votes and don’t think the Democrats and Obama don’t know how people are feeling out here. Thats the beauty of the net because you can get a pretty good idea. Not everyone is like the old trick you had breakfast with this morning and gets paid a large salary to “organize” and call their congressmen etc (Eew). And shove your opinion of internet posters up your ass, your obviously got your keyboard super glued
to your fingers.
TANK
@tofer david:
@Methiso:
Sarcasm, son, sarcasm.
getreal
At least having these service people covered in the mass media makes it clear to the American that DADT is bad for national security and lays the ground work so when the President FINALLY gets rid of it it will seem to most Americans as a reasonable mainstream not a radical move.In the interim many servicemen and women do we have to lose? It’s awful and so unfair.
The Gay Numbers
Again with the retarded postings- the American people are against DADT by minimally 56 percent, and most polls show it in the 70 percent. The military personell who would leave the military due to gays is less than 10 percent although even that number is suspect. So- the problem with DADT repeal is neither the mythical American people or the military. It’s cowardly politicans and innertia.
Centurian
@dgz: What choice did we have? McCain? I’d rather have my tits burned off with a red hot poker.
Bubba
After fighter pilot Lt. Colonel Victor Fehrenbach successfully killed people on orders from draft-dodger W, George W. Bush, the military unjustly threw him out simply because he was a homosexual. It does not get more pathetic than that folks. Fubar!
Fehrenbach is like Socrates facing unjust accusers, or Christians torn apart by lions in the roman coliseums, even Jesus on the cross. Fortunately he has a sound mind, body and soul, and he has certainly proven his worth all around. He also has balls, which is more than can be said for the dishonorable wimps that threw him out!
Don’t Ask Don’t Tell should be thrown out. It is a great evil.
(Thank God Fehrenbach is not physically fucked up like disabled veterans who have lost hands, legs or arms – I’d go postal…)
tofer david
i stand corrected guys, he was too busy taking photos with the super bowl champions. very important stuff.