“I do hear people – gay people – talk about transgender people in very much the same terms as people used to talk about your common or garden gay. The connection between us all is we come under the queer umbrella – we are queer. I quite like being queer actually. The problems that transgender people have with the law are not dissimilar from what used to be the case for us, so I think we should all be allies really.”–Sir Ian McKellen, to It’s a Sin star Olly Alexander, explaining why gay people–particularly gay men–must remain allies with the transgender community. In the same exchange, McKellen also commended It’s a Sin for its depiction of the AIDS epidemic in the UK.
Donston
I do like that Ian isn’t one of those older people who is caught up in “queer” being a bad or offensive word. I do get why some don’t embrace it, and that’s fine. But most people who act hella offended towards “queer” often have some prejudicial issues. I’ve realized a lot of those people are often transphobic or femme-phobic or contend with toxic masculinity or contend with internalized homophobia, etc. Folks can’t help accidentally exposing themselves.
My stance on trans issues is a complicated one. I fully support everyone’s right to be seen as whatever and I understand the gender spectrum. But I also get some of the discomfort some non trans-phobic cis people have with trying to view cis and trans genders as exactly the same and how that can be problematic in some areas. I do fully support gender identity.
I honestly think the “ally era” has or at least needs to come to an end. Openly support the people and causes you want to support. But this idea of being an “ally” has become parasitic and is often more about navigating social politics or getting social media attention and likes.
ShiningSex
if cis women don’t like being in the same breath as transgender women, then they’re just pieces of sh*t. End of story.
Donston
I like to look past the mush and sentimentality.
Gender is not the same thing as race. Just like I don’t think sexuality or the orientation spectrum is the same thing as race. All these things are distinct but also connected.
I don’t think someone is inherently transphobic because they have some “complicated” viewpoints. For example, I understand where Martina Navratilova is coming from. But I also understand wanting to compete as the gender you identify as. It can be a more messy and complicated topic than a few hateful or mushy phrases and cliches on social media. However, yes, many are just driven by trans-phobia, misogyny or misandry.
Dymension
My reason for not liking the word queer is that the original meaning is “strange”-queer as a three-dollar bill was the old expression. It, along with fag are not dissimilar to the “n” word for black people. Why on earth would I want to be considered “strange” as if I am not worthy? Reclaim that word if you wish, but I am not queer. I am “normal”, as normal as ALL human beings should be considered.
ShiningSex
Sadly our community has internal homophobia, transphobia. Look at “GaysforTrump”, total internalized homophobia because you don’t see blacks joining the KKK. Racism and transphobia are a huge issue in our community. Remember who helped the gay rights movement to begin with queens!!!! Our sisters!!!!!
GayEGO
With all of the different objects in space, what is the big deal here, we are all different and should accept each other.
Joshua
No Way in hell will I support Trans people.
jay_raines
Joshua can I ask you why you feel like that. I had a younger brother who was gay he didn’t always understand what trans is but he always supported us and I always supported gay rights as numbers count. Ive been fighting since 1975 before I could even vote.
Leash
Do you personally know any transgender?
Ari
I hate “queer”. It’s just tacky sounding. Like “pansy”. Also, a bit too woke. “Gay” is so good. It’s fine if others want to use it… I don’t think I ever will.
Donston
People nowadays seem to be mostly using “queer” as an umbrella term. It’s word that has evolved a lot even in recent years, and it has always meant different things in different parts of the world. Most guys who are offended by “queer” equate it being effeminate, which says more about their issues with masculinity and trauma than anything else. It’s okay to not embrace whatever terminologies, but the way some get offended and bitchy and aggressive when it comes “queer” just screams: “I’m not trying to be associated with all these different types of people. Their issues are not my issues”.
Dymension
Donston, the word gay back in the day was also an umbrella term. I think every generation likes to reinvent the wheel so they can “leave their mark.”
renzinthewoods
We are a binary species of egg makers and sperm makers, that there are a very few biological misfires does not constitute a spectrum of biological gender. Whereas I fully support trans individuals who have transitioned as a result of gender dysphoria, I refuse to ignore the biological reality and declare that trans women are “real” women. Trans women are “real” trans women and deserve respect. (Same holds for trans men) I also fully support the right of an individual to express themselves in any style of dress, make up, hair, piercings, fashion, etc. that he or she chooses. However, as with freedom of speech, such freedom of expression does not free one from consequences. One can fully tattoo one’s face, but don’t expect that the conservative bank will hire you. I find the entire “my pronouns” movement ridiculous. You can identify however you wish, but you cannot dictate how another person refers to you in the third person. My pronouns are Me and I, You and We. When we engage as two humans, gender doesn’t enter into the pronouns. I will respect you individually. What pronouns, adjectives, nouns and verbs I choose to use to describe you to someone else are MY business, not yours and cannot and should not be policed. The “non binary” “gender fluid” Trans movement is out of control and will one day disappear from the spotlight like all previous counter cultural movements of the past as the next generation is brought up.
Openminded
Renz, I think I understand where you are with your trans pronouns. My question is what do you prefer someone to use as a singular pronoun when referring to you? My interpretation of your post leads me to think you don’t care if I used “he” or “she” but I would assume you have a preference. “They” always throws me as I immediately think more than one person and obviously “he” & “she” are gender directed. I really appreciate that you have the wisdom to realize we all have much bigger things than pronouns to concern ourselves with.
renzinthewoods
Open minded, my preference is only that when they speak of me they be kind. The pronoun police IMO are attempting to enforce acceptance and respect through the enforced use of pronouns…that’s quite the oversimplification of a much more complex situation. And “they”? It all seems terribly affected. And no one would ever refer to someone directly with gendered pronouns. Thus far we are not yet speaking to each other in the third person.
LumpyPillows
I agree completely.
Monkey1
I don’t understand why trans is put under the same umbrella as gay, lesbian, bi. There is nothing in common. I can support them, but they seem to insist on taking the umbrella all for themselves.
jay_raines
As many gay men and lesbians have tried to live under the umbrella and with more acceptance are now transitioning. Oh yeah now I and my male partner are a gay couple. As far as the ? getting to big I think gender queer and A gender should be part of the B that is just my oppion and I support all of us because #s have power.
Cam
@Monkey1
Ohhh, so the same right wing troll account that has defended Trump, mocked LGBTQ victims of bigotry and attacks and become enraged when anyone points out Republican bigotry doesn’t “get” why we stand together as a community.
Sweetie, if you’re going to try to soften your commenting style, you might not want to use the same screename you used to rabidly defend Trump’s bigotry and homophobia.
LumpyPillows
@cam nothing wrong with what he wrote. Stop with the harassment.
Openminded
I have a hard time convincing myself where I stand on this issue. You are correct in that being a Trans person doesn’t automatically demand that you be gay. IMHO, a person born with male genitalia who feels female inside strongly enough to Trans to female becomes a female (I won’t get into the debate on the XY thing) and assuming they partner with a Male, there is no same sex relationship involved and therefore could be argued ineligible to stand under the LGBT umbrella. Of course the argument that the umbrella is only for same sex leaning persons begs the question are Bi persons deserving of fully standing under the umbrella or only eligible while leaning same sex attracted?
Personally, I’m not lobbying for or against the inclusion of Trans but I can see where there can be concern that the “pool” is getting diluted with too many variables and therefore one groups concerns could be overshadowed or harmed by another groups issues. You make a good point though.
renzinthewoods
The very concept of gay and lesbian emerges from binary biological gender. The origins of transsexual depend on a binary biological gender to transition from/to in response to a medically defined (binary) gender dysphoria. The Neo Trans movement…the “non binary” “gender fluid” “pan sexual” “theys” argue there is no gender, it’s whatever you feel at any given moment. In “their” world view there is no gay, there is no lesbian, there is no heterosexual or homosexual. Further, anyone who would not have sexual relations with an individual due to physical genitalia is by definition “transphobic” – the only phobic that appears to matter these days. Meaning that if I would refuse to engage in sex with a trans man who still has a vagina, because – no penis – then I am an evil transphobic. SMH.
tanningbed
renzinthewoods, where do you find these people? they seem to be made of… straw?
actual non-binary person chiming in here, and i have never in my life heard anyone say gender does not exist, even less heard anyone even attempt to insinuate that gay and lesbian, hetero- or homosexual does not exist. the fact that some people do not fall into the male or female categories, does not invalidate or remove the experience of those who do. no one argues that. what we do argue, is that no one is REQUIRED to force themselves into either of these boxes, and that we should all try to be ourselves. infact, a whole lot of non-binary people identify as either gay or lesbian, while also being non-binary! me included. stop spewing this ignorant nonsense about the non-binary commuity. we are not here to harm anyone, i just want to be myself, on my own terms. my existence does not invalidate or erase anyone elses.
also, very few people do agree with that sentiment of being transphobic if you don’t want to bang someone due to their genitals. as far as I’m concerned, if it doesn’t work for you in bed, then it doesn’t work for you in bed. no more discussion to be had. it’s just nice to, at the same time, see the viewpoint of the trans person who got shot down for having the wrong genitals. I’ve not been there myself, but I can imagine it feels pretty bad, so I don’t quite want to be mad at them for overreacting and taking it the wrong way. after all, a lot of trans women and non-binary people do want SRS, so having someone shoot them down for their genitals can be very dysphoria inducing.
LumpyPillows
Non-binary is just a need to talk about your inner crazy. Sorry. You undermine every LGBT person when you start talking that nonsense and expect people to take you seriously.
dhmonarch89
The trans community seems to get more militant by the day. I was always an ally- but they don’t make it easy. If you’re 5 minutes behind the latest edit or phrase, they label you a nazi. I support full civil, equal and human rights for all of us, but the differences are more glaring each year. As we gain full rights, I see the entire LGBT community splintering off from each other. Honestly, I’m fine with that.
Liquid Silver
I see this one. One recent trans “friend”… well, ex-friend at this point, just got so militant that finally nobody could keep up. Anything said was clearly being run through the “woke-dar” and got criticized.
We simply stopped inviting her to anything when “guess the pronoun” became the game of the day and the name kept changing.
“Don’t play games with me” would be the takeaway point here, and “don’t treat me as your punching bag” would be another one. There seem to be plenty of people who need to learn these lessons.
Dymension
So what you are talking about is not necessarily restricted to trans people. It is a “feature” of the “woke crowd”—dare to disagree with us and we will cancel you!
BoomerMyles
My heart goes to the true trans people who struggled all their life knowing they were born in the wrong body and courageously transitioned.
What the majority of people have difficulty with, myself included, are the gender non-binary people that make a mockery out of gender and reality with their 100+ different genders.
Other transgender people admit it”s just a vibe and NOT a reflexion of gender, given to the vicissitudes of how that individual feels at the moment.
And for the life of me I cannot understand the individual that ostensibly presents as a specific gender but insists on being referred to a “they” claiming to be neither gender.
It has become political, militant, and even Marxist.
Most people say it’s just a fad and it will just fade into obscurity once everyone gets bored with it
Kangol2
As soon as you said “Marxist” you turned your entire post into gibberish.
Look up “Marxist,” which has ZERO to do with gender expression, presentation or performance, and then come back to us. Or just keep the right-wing claptrap over at Breitbart, etc.
dhmonarch89
it’s not right wing- it’s frustration…
Heywood Jablowme
To paraphrase John Lennon:
Imagine there’s no gender
It’s easy if you try
No balls below us
No b00bies up high
Imagine all the people
Calling themselves “they”
woo-HOO, ooo ooo ooo
inbama
Sadly, we’re headed there.
Ari
I passed a table of straight young guys the other day and they were bitching about all these labels and I overheard the word trans.
My stepdad who is the most gay-friendly guy often asks “now what’s this about…. (this or that trans issue). I have to tell him I don’t know. I think he lumps me in with it all now.
I know trans people want to be under the umbrella but it does seem to set gay rights back quite a bit.
They say we lost seats in the house because of trans issues, the term Latinx and terms like “defund the police”.
I would think we would be farther ahead if we just referred to gay people as gay.
I’m not sure how trans people get the rights they deserve but I’m not sure being under the gay umbrella is the way to do it.
dhmonarch89
The Equality Act now going through Congress is a product of the trans community holding us back. In 2009- there were enough votes to pass ENDA- (Employment Non Discrimination Act) with a Democratic House majority, 59 Senators and Obama in the WH, but it was scrapped when activists raised hell because it wasn’t trans inclusive. I was all for it being inclusive- but I felt we should pass what we could now and continue working for the rest each year. As a result- 85-90% of the LGBT community has had to wait 11 years for employment protection- the Supreme Court did it last summer and now the Congress is trying to affirm that. It seems ever since then, the trans community has taken over and basically told us to shut up.
Josh447
Dmonarch89
Hail to the truth bruthah. LGBs will never get complete employment and housing rights via Equality Acts as long as Ts demand their pissing rights in opposite sex bathrooms locker rooms and sports teams which is equal to pure bull+ cr+ap. Might as well throw in the towel, Ts are taking us down the drain. Unfortunately for us they were never potty trained and now we’re paying for it with people still getting fired from their jobs and losing their homes. But it is our fault for ever letting them on our team in the first place. Though pissing rights wasn’t part of the plan in the beginning. They are anything but gay.
I support their right to life, but their alternate rights to piss, is a dead ender.
Hey trans out there. Get it together and pull your pissing rights off the Equality Acts now and in the future. It’ll never pass and you’re pulling the entire gay community down the shit++ter.
CityguyUSA
Trans people have a very different agenda than the LGBIQ community. It’s like the difference between Social Security and Disability. Social Security was based on people not being able to work with pensions and retirements in hand while Disability was essentially a copy of Social Security for people that have no pensions, no 401k’s and no saving but lots of medical bills. LGBIQ want equality with the rest of the world while transgendered want to be or feel they are a different sex.
inbama
The difference is, we just want a fair slice of the pie.
Transgenderism is about turning everything upside down so that we live in a transnormative world where mothers impregnate, fathers chestfeed and people who used to be known as men and women are called vagina-owners and penis-havers.
Openminded
inbama, why does someone “own” a vagina but only “has” a penis? Last I knew, I owned my penis. But I prefer to be referred to as a “man”. I’ll respect your identifiers if you will respect mine.
renzinthewoods
Inbama No thank you. There is no need for your so called transnormative world. The world is fine as it is. That is the essence of the problem…like extremists everywhere, be they Christianists, Islamacists, White Supremacisists…the radical agenda of the Neo Trans movement seeks to impose their world view on us all. You can declare that Up is Down and Day is Night all you wish, but it will not undo the reality that we are a binary species of egg makers and sperm makers and that we organize our Society around the TWO valid genders. Trans women and trans men, those individuals who have transitioned in response to binary gender dysphoria deserve respect and support. All the other “Non Binary” “Gender Fluid” nonsense is mere cosplay and posturing.
tanningbed
holy shit all right rezinthewoods, I feel stupid for typing out an actual, well-meaning reply to another comment of yours now. what a lunatic you are, to pretend even for a second that wanting to self-identify as a non-binary person is the same as wanting to exterminate black and jewish people. I cannot believe that anyone would even get that thought into their head. you got some serious issues, I would recommend seeing a therapist for these anger issues and delusions.
JessPH
You can identify with whatever gender you want but please don’t make us believe that trans women are biological women and trans men are biological men. They are not. You think a doctor would diagnose a trans woman patient as a biological woman? No, he wouldn’t because that’s a misdiagnosis and could harm the patient. Unless they underwent genital surgical procedure, they should use locker rooms assigned to the sex they are born to. And, for crying out loud, trans women who are biological men should stay away from women’s sports. Trans women have larger muscles and larger chest capacity compared to most non-trans women. They have an unfair advantage.
Leash
You should ask yourself why it is so important to you to tell people what they are or aren’t. Telling someone who identifies as female “you are not really a woman because of biology” is kind of uncalled for, ducked up and mean. Does putting other people down make you feel better?
mastik8
The T in GLBT has been there since the beginning and everyone acknowledges their contribution. No one could say, and be believed, that the GLB community hasn’t included them all along. Indeed, Stonewall wouldn’t have happened if not for them. My question is, how did they become so homophobic and misogynistic?
Monkey1
I’m tired of the false narrative that it was drag queens and/or trans people starting the riots. There is no proof to that. No one knows for sure the exact chain of events and no one knows who was the first person to lash out. Probably because there were many that did it at the same time. Somehow this mythology that it was the heroics of trans people that lead to gay liberation… it doesn’t make sense. Gay men fought for gay male rights and we need to own that again.
Cam
Why is the “T” included in LGBTQ? Because they’re being attacked by the same bigots that attacked the LGB people before. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Do I have a ton in common with Trans people? No. Did lesbians have a ton in common with gay men during the AIDS crisis of the 1980s? No. Lesbians were the least likely to get AIDS, and yet if you read, they were there in the groups that were fighting for better treatment and helping with the charities.
Why does it seem trans people have gotten more “militant”? Gee, could it be because Marriage is legal, adoption is now legal, and yet Trans people were just kicked out of the military by the last administration and trans people are being used as the boogymen to keep bigoted voters inflamed by screaming about them being in bathrooms. These are the EXACT same arguments that were used against gays, lesbians, and bisexuals by groups like National Organization for Marriage until they stopped working. Memos from groups like “NOW” show that when they started losing the battle against gay’s and lesbians, they had two new tactics, one was to try to inflame racial issues in the LGBTQ community by trolling the sites, and another was to switch and start using the same tactics against Transpeople to slip the same bigoted laws into place.
Trans friends and I may or my not have disagreements on minutia or specifics in discussions but all that goes away when an outside force comes in to strip away rights. Because the SECOND, they’re through attacking transpeople they will come for everybody else. Family may argue internally but band together to defend itself from outside attacks.
So fight bigots now while their attacking the “T” in LGBT, or fight them later when they come back for the LGBs and the Ts aren’t around anymore to help.
Leash
If you don’t support trans people you can duck off. PERIOD You are just like those conservative homophobes who constantly give us sh*t and it’s baffling to me how you don’t see that.