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HOMONORMATIVE

Chicago Gay Bars Ban Women At Busiest Times. Illegal? Yes. But Is It Just Practical?

Gay men love their booze and their tiny packed spaces. So what happens when too many ladies try to squeeze into our watering holes?

Apparently at Wang’s, a gay bar in Chicago‘s Boystown gayborhood, the posted policy has been to ban women after 11pm, when shit gets real busy. Now Wang’s and a number of other Boystown bars with similar policies are facing an investigation by the Illinois Department of Human Rights.

Reports the Huffington Post:

Chicago Alderman Tom Tunney, whose 44th Ward encapsulates the Boystown commercial district, reached out to the Illinois Department of Human Rights (IDHR) after The Huffington Post informed him of the policy.

“Businesses within our neighborhood should be accommodating and respectful towards all patrons,” Tunney said in a statement.

Beyond being disappointing to women who want to drink at the bar, such a policy is illegal. Mike Claffey, a spokesman for the IDHR, confirmed that the state Human Rights Act prohibits discrimination on the basis of one’s sex or other protected categories in places of public accommodation—including bars. The IDHR is looking into the matter.

Clearly, this is a special case, though—women are being banned because it’s a bar that specifically caters to gay men, ones who are looking to hook up and find partners in the later hours, not because women are meant to stay home and cook and clean and never go to any bars ever.

So, how do we keep the Carrie Bradshaws of the world from taking over our bars without breaking the law or being unethical? We’d love to hear your suggestions in the comments.

Photo via Huffington Post

By:           Evan Mulvihill
On:           Mar 9, 2012
Tagged: , , , , , , ,
  • 138 Comments
    • Pannyx
      Pannyx

      Why not just to the opposite of a Lady’s Night. Charge woman a cover fee of $20 and let men in for free. I’d say you see a lot less ladies showing up.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 12:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hoho
      hoho

      Thank gods.

      Most of the time it’s fine. It’s just when the chicks turn up because a gay bar is a “safe place” to go and not get hit on, and then get wasted and start falling over everywhere.

      I like to be all ‘inclusive’ but there are limited number of places gay people can go just to be around other gay people. The straights have pretty much everywhere else.

      Either to what Pannyx suggested, or Ive found, if the bar skews just the tiniest bit sleazy, girls don’t turn up.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 12:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • cc
      cc

      Um… these women are there to spend money. It isn’t ethical or legal to refuse their entry, period. I think framing the question in terms of “these broads are going to take over!!!!” is misleading and sexist.

      Honestly, if they are a decent gay bar, they can handle a few female customers just as EVERY OTHER decent gay bar ever opened has been able to handle a few female customers.

      Everybody chill the fuck out.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 12:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wait What
      Wait What

      Wait… don’t lesbians already get away with this… If lesbians can block out all men… why can’t we have a guys night… though I do think that the cover charge for women idea would be for the best… I hate getting hit on by women at a gay bar >_<

      Mar 9, 2012 at 12:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ryan
      Ryan

      Women are equal enough to men now that they should be able to handle this without crying victim. When I was 20 there would be only be a handful of straight girls at the bar and they would be brought there by a gay guy. At 30 I go to the bar and there are tons of straight girls, at least a quarter of the bar is straight girls. We need our own space.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 12:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles
      Charles

      Just have a membership states, all person how dount have a membership must leav. Last I check there’s no law against how you can sell memberships to or not…

      Mar 9, 2012 at 12:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hoho
      hoho

      @cc:

      If there is such a huge market for an all straight girl only bar then open one.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 12:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • the other Greg
      the other Greg

      hey, I can’t wait to see what JASON says about this!

      Mar 9, 2012 at 12:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • queen
      queen

      wow….gays are not even safe from hatred and segregation yet and now the little power some have wants to actually POWER TRIP ON IT

      Mar 9, 2012 at 12:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • queen
      queen

      i guess some horny QUEENS are just pissed off coz alot are actually closeted and dont want theyre gf to see them hokey pokeing a man……girlll we cant save our asses from hate if we throw HATE!!!

      Mar 9, 2012 at 1:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charlie in Charge
      Charlie in Charge

      That’s rather sad. Remember that female friend of yours who will go to the bars with you will likely be a positive force in your life longer than the trick you take home for one night.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 1:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Evan Mulvihill
      Evan Mulvihill

      @Pannyx: Very smart idea!

      Mar 9, 2012 at 1:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Owen
      Owen

      Oh my God. People are actually arguing on this blog that this policy is okay????? What the fuck is wrong with you people? It is never okay to ban a specific type of person from anywhere based solely on their type-of-person-hood. For no reason. You people should be ashamed of yourselves!!!

      Mar 9, 2012 at 1:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Owen
      Owen

      @Owen: And, yes, by “for no reason”, I don’t include places made for children or private clubs. Though private clubs raise my eyebrows as well…

      Mar 9, 2012 at 1:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John K.
      John K.

      This is illegal, period. No different than the straight people at straight bars not wanting gays there for the same reason. Get the hell over it and start acting like you know what discrimination feels like.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 1:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cain
      Cain

      If I seen a gay bar with a bunch of straight women I would immediately leave. It’s not a gay bar anymore. It’s a faghag bar. I’m looking to see men when I’m at a bar or gay club. So it needs to be at least a limit on how many women can enter. Lets face it, its a males playground in a gay bar. Just like it is when it lesbians night.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 1:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DM_Chicago
      DM_Chicago

      I live in Chicago, and my friends and I have become quite fond of Wangs. However, part of the reason we’re so fond of it is because it caters to gay men. I’ve never seen them discriminate against a woman, refuse to serve a woman, or kick a woman out of the bar, but at the same time, I’m glad when I walk in and don’t find any women there.

      Here’s the thing. We’ve reached a crossroad in the gay rights movement, where we have to decide whether we are happy with equal rights or if we want to assimilate to the point that there is no such thing as gay bar or a straight bar. I’ve talked with my friends about this, and we have varying opinions. For those who want full assimilation, there is nothing better than watching the gay pride parade next to a family with a stroller. For those who would prefer to keep some old fashioned gay culture around, it is discouraging that events like gay pride have to be toned down for a family friendly audience.

      Really, the same goes with bars. If there are women in a bar or at a party, men (assuming they have manners) are going to tone it down a bit. They’re going to be mindful of everyone in the room, and act accordingly. That means less shirts come off, less groping on the dance floor (or in the corner), and probably more censored discussions about sex, etc.

      If there is really a demand for bars where women want to feel safe and comfortable outside the grasps of heterosexual men, then someone should open that kind of bar. But gay bars about gay people feeling comfortable and safe outside the grasps of all heterosexuals.

      It’s ironic to say that gay people should sacrifice their opportunity to have that environment so that women can have it. Money talks. I, and many of my friends, will gladly pay to have a gay bar that remains just that, a gay bar. If women want to pay to have a bar for women, they can pay up too. They already do it with gyms right? (e.g. Curves).

      Mar 9, 2012 at 1:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shauna
      Shauna

      What about men who bring female friends? will he be allowed in but not his friends? :S

      Mar 9, 2012 at 1:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Owen
      Owen

      @DM_Chicago: Curves and Lucille Roberts are considered “private” clubs. If you want to go to gay bar that discriminates (and yes I believe Curves and Lucille Roberts, law protected as they are, classically discriminate) find one that has a “membership”. Don’t complain about the ones that are supposedly open to the public.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 1:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DM_Chicago
      DM_Chicago

      @Owen: I recognize that Curves is a private club, as is a bath house. You call it discrimination, I call it “separate, but equal,” and if that makes me some type of bigot, I’ll gladly wear the title.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 1:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kurt
      Kurt

      It is a public accomdoation. It is illegal and morally wrong to refuse customers because of gender. Sorry, this is not a tough call.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 1:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chris
      Chris

      “If there are women in a bar or at a party, men (assuming they have manners) are going to tone it down a bit. They’re going to be mindful of everyone in the room, and act accordingly. That means less shirts come off, less groping on the dance floor (or in the corner), and probably more censored discussions about sex, etc.”

      Talk about a complete BS argument. Having a few girls inside a gay bar has never stopped these things from happening before.

      Framing blatant discrimination as some sort of “cultural war to resist the assimilation of homosexuality” is pretty much the most ridiculous argument ever made. You act as if girls are going to be taking over the gay bars in Boystown. That’s an insane assumption – if that were the case, it would have already happened.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 2:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JayKay
      JayKay

      “We can’t have men leading girl scout troops, they’d be invading a female space!”

      “We need women-only gyms so women can escape the male gaze when they work out!”

      “There’s nothing discriminatory about ladies night, men should just get over it!”

      “OMG WTF YOU CAN’T KICK WOMEN OUT OF GAY BARS, THAT’S SEXIST AND DISCRIMINATORY!!! HOW FUCKING DARE YOU TRY TO HAVE A PLACE THAT CATERS EXCLUSIVELY TO GAY MEN WHERE GAY MEN CAN INTERACT WITH OTHER GAY MEN, YOU SEXIST PRIVUHLIDGED PIG!”

      Liberal logic.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 2:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • James in Toronto
      James in Toronto

      This is sexist behaviour and I wouldn’t support a bar with this policy. nuff said.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 2:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rick
      Rick

      First off Wangs is not a “gay bar” it is a restaurant in the gayborhood and no one knows why they put a sign up that said “No women after 11″ They are pretty much closed at that time.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 2:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GreatGatsby2011
      GreatGatsby2011

      This just in! Wang’s next promotional night:

      “White Power Wednesdays”

      Mandatory melanin screening at the door.

      Whities will receive a free drink coupon. (Blond & blue-eyed gets double coupons!!!)

      Darkies get the boot.

      *rolls eyes*

      Mar 9, 2012 at 2:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • the crustybastard
      the crustybastard

      EVAN MULVIHILL: “Clearly, this is a special case, though—women are being banned because it’s a bar that specifically caters to gay men, ones who are looking to hook up…”

      If it was a bar that specifically catered to gay guys who didn’t want to hook up with Asians, blacks, femmes or fatties, it’d be okay to ban them too, right?

      “Special case.” Wow.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 2:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DenverBarbie
      DenverBarbie

      First, I am curious how many lesbian/women’s bars Chicago boasts? Anymore, it seems that even large cities have one or two lesbian dives and a dozen or more bars and clubs that cater to gay men. Sometimes that number is even less than one or two. If Chicago is among these, where are lesbians supposed to hang out if they are being turned away from gay bars? Straight bars can be hostile to gay men and women alike, you better believe it.

      I also fail to see how the presence of a few women will prevent men from hooking up. That seems silly. If you’re going out to a bar or club to find someone to get it with, you probably won’t and don’t have to stop to talk to the females brought to the bar by their friends. (But maybe sometimes you should- your one-night stand will last all of a couple to few hours, but some friendships forged at bars turn out to be really great and long-lasting. I’ve met some of my dearest friends on nights out.) The argument posed above that this might happen because men will tone it down in the company of women sounds like some 18th century bogus chivalry, if you ask me. As a girl-parted gay club patron, I’ve never heard some man stop mid-sentence about his hand balling session last night just because I took the stool next to him at the bar. I’ve also never seen men run to grab their muscle tanks for the sake of being modest around women. Because it’s not 1732 and we know women know about sex.
      Come on, boys. Let’s say what these policies are really about.

      Truly, I am always just sad (probably more than I should be) to hear of bars pulling stunts like this. I would never enter a lesbian bar that went out of its way to let gay men know they weren’t welcome (and more and more, this proverbial establishment is mythical since the second-wave feminists stopped running bars in 1980), and I do not think it is much to ask for others to feel that same passion for equality when the table it turned.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 2:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • stevoj
      stevoj

      @Pannyx: i couldn’t agree more. it may be a little bitchy but at least it’s a tactful way to deal with the issue. charge women and continue to let male patrons in for free. the opposite is a reality in most straight bars/clubs

      this is actually one of the reasons i don’t go to many straight clubs. although they’re just as fun i don’t feel it’s fair for me to be charged and women to receive free entry. even the dress codes are stricter for guys (which is a whole ‘nother issue)

      now i’m confused as to why they didn’t just do that in the first place. how long did they think they would be able to ban women…

      Mar 9, 2012 at 2:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JayKay
      JayKay

      @GreatGatsby2011:

      Doesn’t sound any more discriminatory than “Ladies night” specials.

      But I’m guessing the P.C. police won’t be looking to shut down any of the bars that so blatantly discriminate against men.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 2:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ggreen
      ggreen

      Start with a “No Open Toe Shoes” policy. Have a two-drink minimum; a cover charge and a lone single occupant gender neutral restroom. It’s horrible going into a crowded gay bar only to find a bunch of drunk loud mouthed straight girls holding each others hair while they vomit. The only thing worse than the straight girls are the fags that bring them. They ALWAYS go home alone and bitchy and they never know why.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 2:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Huh ...
      Huh ...

      Whatever. Instead of making it official policy, just put a bouncer on the door to limit the number of women to whatever size management thinks acceptable. That’s what every lesbian bar I’ve ever tried to get into does with men.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 2:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • the crustybastard
      the crustybastard

      @JayKay:

      1. Men CAN lead Girl Scout troops.
      2. Ladies-only gyms exist for clients who do not want others treating the facility like a pickup bar.
      3. “Ladies Nights” exist at pickup bars to benefit male customers, not females.

      And seriously — if you imagine society’s true problem is women excluding men from opportunities and accommodations, you are in desperate need of a reality check.

      Your strawman arguments are neither liberal nor logic. They are just the usual derptastic ignorance of “JayKay logic.”

      Mar 9, 2012 at 2:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GreatGatsby2011
      GreatGatsby2011

      @JayKay: If a bar that offers a ladies’ night didn’t also offer a gents’ night (as the bars in my town do) then that bar would not receive my business because I would view it as discriminatory.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 2:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JayKay
      JayKay

      @the crustybastard:

      The only ones who need a reality check are the sad, brainwashed leftists who continue to treat women like they’re some poor, horribly oppressed minority, being kept down by mean ol’ men.

      Where are the male-only gyms? The male-only clubs? Men’s history month? Go Red for men? How about an entire month dedicated to fighting prostate cancer, where the only thing you see for 30 days straight is blue ribbons plastered all over everything, reminding you just how very important men’s health is?

      Mar 9, 2012 at 2:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Huh ...
      Huh ...

      @GreatGatsby2011: What’s discriminatory about it? A bar is a business, and (in certain straight bars) ladies’ night makes economic sense. They’re not out to discriminate against you or offend you or make you feel bad; they just wanna run a successful business.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 2:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mighty
      Mighty

      I stopped going to a bar in Houston that wouldn’t let my female friends in with me. I was warmly welcomed at a lesbian bar with my friends. Why can’t people just be allowed to have fun?

      Mar 9, 2012 at 2:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Huh ...
      Huh ...

      @JayKay: Male only clubs? You ever join a sports league? Men’s history month? Yeah, because *men* is what’s missing from every history textbook ever.

      Male-only gyms? You know why they have female-only gyms? Because they make money. If someone had thought male-only gyms would be profitable, they would exist. It’s not a conspiracy to keep men down, it’s capitalism.

      And as for the ribbons. Boo-fucking-hoo. I’ll wear one if that makes you happy. What’s the color to show solidarity with whiners?

      Mar 9, 2012 at 2:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • emjay
      emjay

      I’ve actually been denied entry into a straight bar because I am male and I didn’t arrive with some scantily clad chick on my arm (I’m not making an assumption here. The bouncer explained this as the reason), however, I get the distinct feeling that if I were to make an issue of this, no one would really care. If it’s ok for straight bars to get away with this kind of behavior, I don’t see why gay bars should be treated differently. Granted, I don’t agree with this behavior at all. Every establishment should have a non-discrimination policy, but if this argument is going to be made, it should be generalized and enforced for all establishments.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 3:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JayKay
      JayKay

      @Huh …:

      Lol, women complain about “discrimination” and it’s a legitimate civil rights complaint. Men complain about discrimination, “GAWD STOP WHINING.”

      Typical leftist hogwash.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 3:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GreatGatsby2011
      GreatGatsby2011

      @Huh …: Then with that business model it sounds like the bar would do just fine without my patronage. I won’t demand that a bar changes its policies to suit my world views but I certainly won’t support it either. And exactly how is charging one person for a service that another person receives for free NOT discrimination? I could care less what the bar owner’s intent is when the end result is sex discrimination.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 3:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheMarc
      TheMarc

      @JayKay: Why is everything about “the left” with you? Can’t you ever actually state something based on fact instead insinuation, assumptions and generalizations? You appear to know very little about discrimination experienced by ANYBODY and for some reason assume that everyone who fights for any right whatsoever is “whining.” How often over the course of history have men been discriminated against? How many times the “equal pay” issue come up for men? By the way there is a month dedicated to prostate cancer so…maybe you should spend a little more time actually educating yourself about something for once instead of assuming you know everything about everything.

      Now I know you sleep easier at night with the belief you’re right about everything and don’t really have the desire to actually spend a little time reading or getting to know the people you attack (except through pundits and talking heads)that you are and that someone somewhere told you that if you attack the left you’ll get rich and be accepted by mainstream society; but, you really do need to get a grip. If you’re going to attack people actually use a fact every now and then. I’m a moderate and I argue with liberals and conservatives all the time; but the one thing we have in common is that we actually have a basis of reality that we argue from. Your’s just seems to be what your daddy told you.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 3:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Huh ...
      Huh ...

      @JayKay: No, you’re right. Your life sucks, you haven’t achieved what you wanted in life. It’s totally because women and blacks get unfair advantages in America. It’s not at all because you suck.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 3:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Huh ...
      Huh ...

      @GreatGatsby2011: Meh. Straight men have to pay for their drinks, but they get precisely what they want: Women to hit on. You’re free to hit on them too.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 3:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheMarc
      TheMarc

      Women have the legal right to be in these establishments; but I get the reasoning as to why the bans were put into place. I have several straight female friends who only go to a gay bar because I drag them along on a rare occasion. And then there are the ones who can’t get enough of them; and I avoid those women like the plague. In my experience, the latter behave like spoiled children when in a gay bar. They’re nearly uncontrollable, disrespectful, crass and just hot messes. Also, if they’re not pawing all over the straight dancers (which is a topic for another day); they’re rudely interrupting whatever group will make eye contact with them or completely plastered. But yet again, those are a select sampling of women. My friends and several women I have encountered in gay bars are simply there in actual support of their gay friends and are really just there to have a good time; and they BEHAVE quite normally. I know and personally believe that a gay bar should be a gay bar; gay men with a non-existent to light presence of straight women. But I don’t think we should get in the habit of regulating that.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 3:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GreatGatsby2011
      GreatGatsby2011

      @Huh …: I suppose if I viewed a bar as a place to hook up, then I would be more apt to see the logic behind your argument. Since I view a bar as a place to go drink alcohol, charging one sex for cover/drinks while not charging the opposite sex (without offering another night of the same in reverse) is sex discrimination in my eyes. So, as stated above, while I am not foaming at the mouth to ban ladies’ night nationwide, I certainly won’t support an establishment that I feel participates in sex discrimination.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 3:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JayKay
      JayKay

      @TheMarc:

      “How often over the course of history have men been discriminated against?”

      I wasn’t around for most of that history. Neither were the women alive today. They shouldn’t receive blatantly sexist benefits and hand-outs because of something that was happening 100 years ago. The era of “male privilege” and “patriarchy” is long dead, it’s time to let it go.

      “How many times the “equal pay” issue come up for men?”

      Holy crap, the pay gap myth is still around? I’d have thought that lie had been put to rest by now.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 3:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DenverBarbie
      DenverBarbie

      @the crustybastard: Thanks for getting it.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 3:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MEJ
      MEJ

      Wherever there are straight women, you will find straight, horny men–who get drunk and pick fights, especially if another man hits on them. That is why women need to be kept out of gays bars.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 3:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheMarc
      TheMarc

      @JayKay: Argghhh, why am I doing this? Ok…so first off, what sexist benefits and handouts are you referring to?

      Secondly, the equal pay issue is actually real, proven, verified by independent sources. Reading, research, etc….just talked about this. Do that first.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 3:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DenverBarbie
      DenverBarbie

      @TheMarc:Also, if they’re not pawing all over the straight dancers (which is a topic for another day); they’re rudely interrupting whatever group will make eye contact with them or completely plastered.
      ————-

      Actually, I think that’s a totally relevant question for this thread! If the claim is that women are solely being banned for sexual reasons (it’s nothing personal, it’s just that gay men won’t be going home with you), why are straight men still allowed in these bars?

      Mar 9, 2012 at 3:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark
      Mark

      Good! It’s an LGBT space, it’s not a place for fag hags who drink too much booze and cause drama.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 3:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Drew
      Drew

      It’s about time this started to happen. These bars are for bisexual and gay men and not for women. There are places like JayKay wrote where only women can go to like the gym Curves and men are not allowed at all.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 3:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JayKay
      JayKay

      @TheMarc:

      Well, just off the top of my head…The entirety of the Violence Against Women Act is sexist, anti-male garbage. The American legal system is wildly skewed to favor women over men. The education system gives females highly preferential treatment, from the overwhelming number of female teachers, to female college applicants receiving extra consideration purely for having a vagina. Women’s health is given priority over the health of men, despite the fact that women already outlive men. Women are not required to register for the draft, men are. Permanently altering an infant boy’s genitals without his consent is seen as no big deal, while female circumcision is treated as a form of barbaric genital mutilation. I’m not even taking into account the smaller, every day areas where women are granted special benefits and perks that men don’t receive.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 4:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheMarc
      TheMarc

      @DenverBarbie: I completely agree that it should be discussed; but I was going to try and keep it simple, as I’m long-winded lol! I think that if we go down the road of banning straight women, then yes, absolutely, we should question why straight men are allowed in gay bars as well. Now it’s a lot easier to identify a woman versus a straight man; so the process of banning straight men would be problematic to begin with; but it’s still a valid question if gay bars are banning women solely for the reason that it impedes hooking up.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 4:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      This is what happens when you build a community on a sex act, which the gay male community has become. It then becomes about picking up. Picking up becomes the most important thing. Forget about talking, chatting, socializing, laughing, sharing, bonding…nope, it’s all about finding a fuck. Having women present tends to dilute the sexual drive quotient and interferes with the signals and outright animalistic rituals of men seeking men.

      This development is a true sign of the fall of the gay social scene. It’s now nothing more than a semen-soaked mattress. Discriminating against women is part and parcel of the scene.

      Straights do the same. Lesbians do the same. However, it’s more exaggerated in the male-male paradigm where you’re combining sexually driven with sexually driven. Men have very powerfuly sex drives, don’t forget.

      The problem that lesbians have is that their spaces are often visited by straight-identifying guys who have a fetish for girl-girl action. The guys aren’t there because they respect them as homosexuals, they are there for salacious reasons that have nothing to do with genuine acceptance.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 4:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • the crustybastard
      the crustybastard

      @DenverBarbie:

      You don’t have to thank me for not being a misogynistic moron, but it does seem to be a conspicuously minority position here. Holy shit.

      @MEJ:

      Yes, we should keep women out of bars because men sometimes misbehave, and women should wear sleeping bags with eye holes to prevent men from raping them. Thanks for sharing, Mullah Omar.

      @JayKay:

      This is a thread about women being denied access to a public accommodation — which IS a legitimate civil rights complaint, dumbass. Yet all you want to talk about is how men are treated so unfairly and get such a terribly raw deal.

      Poor you. “Where are the male-only clubs?” Well, start at the office of the President of the United States and work your way down. It’s only been since 1900 that American women were deemed sufficiently human that they could own property rather than BE property. In the ensuing century, although being half the population, women still do not comprise half of Congress, half of SCOTUS, half of corporate directorships, half of management, etc.

      Although I’m certain you imagine this to be a failure of female merit rather than “bros before hos,” because of course there’s never been any evidence of men colluding to exclude women.

      Ferfucksake — know why people say “Gawd, stop whining!”? It’s because you’re constantly whining.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 4:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • bruce
      bruce

      Isn’t there a bar in Australia called The Laird which has the legal right to ban women? I think there was a lot of anger with The Laird when it did this. I don’t know about now but I’ve heard that it’s not as busy as it used to be. Could be for other reasons, though.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 4:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • bruce
      bruce

      Personally, I don’t think women should be kept out of gay men’s bars. A bar is not a private space. A bar requires a legal document from the government to operate as a bar, otherwise it wouldn’t exist. Its right to dispense alcohol is partly owned by the government.

      Maybe there shouldn’t be any gay bars at all. If gay men were true to their word of not wanting to live in closets, they’d be out integrating into ordinary bars and clubs. They wouldn’t be segregating away in bars that are specifically gay.

      The existence of gay bars proves that gay men are philosophically dishonest.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 4:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RAY
      RAY

      This is crap, different forms of this happen in LA. Gay friendly bars/clubs are sometimes the only places that people have to not feel excluded or judged (or at least not in the same way that the rest of society does). There is a trend to make gay bars and clubs more “exclusive,” by having awful line people (in LA at certain gay clubs they are straight women) judging and selecting people to hop to the front of the line. I don’t get it. Being gay has shown me that it’s never worth it to participate in something that would exclude someone outright. Our community should always be welcoming to everyone. You never know where someone comes from or what their deal might be. I always run into people who have no concept of what ” trendy” is and who sometimes don’t even drink, but for 5 minutes of their life want to be in a place where their sexuality isn’t a spectacle. I would hate for a gay club to add to whatever else may be going on in their lives.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 4:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brad
      Brad

      @bruce: Australia hasn’t always been a shining beacon of human rights either, though.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 4:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheMarc
      TheMarc

      @JayKay: Everything you mentioned would be incredibly valid except for reality. The Violence Against Women act exists because…that’s right women are frequently victims of assault based solely on their gender. I don’t know how the legal system is skewered against men; juror bias maybe? Which I guess would be simply indicative of social experience. There’s an overwhelming number of female teachers because females overwhelmingly choose the profession over men. College applicants that are female, a minority, or are poor are given special consideration due to the fact that historically these groups are less likely to pursue higher education and/or have the resources to do so. In order to improve the overall economic condition, the encouragement exists to hopefully get more of these applicants in the door; not to mention the educational importance of diversity. As far as women’s health given priority over men, I can’t think of any examples where I would find that to be true. Just because there are more products for women’s health (for obvious reasons) doesn’t mean there’s some global conspiracy against men’s health. First off, most men don’t prioritize their own health. If you look at the benefits, health initiatives, etc. that favor women, they exist because women got together and demanded them. They weren’t handed to them. Men could do the same and are actually started to do so with a great deal of support from women; particularly in the UK.

      But, shining ray of light, you actually did mention valid points. The statement about the draft is spot on. I believe women should be required to register for the draft and guess who else does…President Obama, a lefty. And guess who doesn’t, Sen. McCain. And it is a point of gender bias. Also, to your point about circumcision, again valid and true. It is a generally accepted practice that has shown no consistently true and verifiable health results that should go away. But all of that being said; it simply isn’t enough to amount to the amount of gender bias you are claiming. For instance, most video games and other media have male protagonists. That could easily be seen as discriminatory. And so many, many more things. The point is there’s still a lot more balancing to be done before people such as yourself can claim there is obvious favoritism toward women.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 4:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheMarc
      TheMarc

      @bruce: Really???? That’s what you’re going with? That’s why gay bars exists? Because we’re philosophically dishonest? It has nothing to do with the fact that throughout our history, to put it lightly, gay men and women have not exactly been welcomed with open arms in traditionally “straight” establishments? So yeah, we branched off and created safe places for ourselves. What rock have you been living under?

      Mar 9, 2012 at 4:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • disco lives
      disco lives

      Gays- you can’t have it both ways.

      If a popular four-star restaurant started banning gay couples from holding hands during their dinner (or if they charged twice as much to gay couples who hold hands), you’all would be outraged and would cry discrimination. Banning females from bars is the same thing.

      The law is the law…if you don’t like the law, try to have it changed— Good luck, however, in finding any legislator to introduce such a change of law just because some gay guys think girls are gross to be around when they drink.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 5:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Owen
      Owen

      The back and forth of this is frustrating. Its easy. Don’t ever discriminate. For any reason. Don’t EVER think its right, no matter if it interferes with your pleasures. Its not about you. Its about what’s right. How selfish are we to be discriminated against, then turn around and do it to someone else? How can this be a good thing?

      Mar 9, 2012 at 5:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Clockwork
      Clockwork

      I’m with OWEN in No.65 -> the man is righteous

      Mar 9, 2012 at 5:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MEJ
      MEJ

      @the crustybastard:

      Yes, we should keep women out of gay bars because straight men sometimes misbehave

      Fixed it for you, jackass.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 5:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • bruce
      bruce

      The Marc,

      Gay bars have gone from safe places to sex places. They are no longer what they were supposedly meant to be. The concept of a gay bar has been sullied by the pro-hedonism crowd. Gay bars are now nothing more than a stop on the way to promiscuity-ville.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 5:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MEJ
      MEJ

      @Owen:

      Owen, there are thousands and thousands of bars straight women can go to. They don’t have to go to gay bars. They choose to go to gays bars. And gay men can choose to not let them in. It’s not discrimination if we’re asking them to go to other bars.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 5:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MEJ
      MEJ

      @bruce:

      If gay men were true to their word of not wanting to live in closets, they’d be out integrating into ordinary bars and clubs. They wouldn’t be segregating away in bars that are specifically gay.

      Nice sentiment sunshine, but not workable in reality. Years ago a friend went to a straight bar with his boyfriend, and his straight co-workers and their spouses. Within 20 minutes, he and his BF were being assaulted for dancing together. No one lifted a finger to help them, including the hets who went out with them. The bouncers grabbed my friend, and his BF and forcefully ejected them from the bar, while their abusers–and straight co-workers–continued to party inside.

      They don’t want us in their bars, and I don’t want them in ours.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 5:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CBRad
      CBRad

      If guys don’t like the way the crowd has changed in a place, they just has to find another place to go…..I guess. I would hope Chicago has a lot of places.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 5:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • wc1
      wc1

      @bruce:

      How old are you? Did you just come out yesterday?

      Mar 9, 2012 at 5:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dave
      Dave

      MEJ strikes again as a professional victim and a hypocritical heterophobe!

      Mar 9, 2012 at 5:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Huh ...
      Huh ...

      @bruce: Is your name, by any chance, Anita Bryant?

      Mar 9, 2012 at 5:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheMarc
      TheMarc

      @bruce: Like all bars?

      Mar 9, 2012 at 5:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JayKay
      JayKay

      @TheMarc:

      “The Violence Against Women act exists because…that’s right women are frequently victims of assault based solely on their gender.”

      And men aren’t? It’s sexist, anti-male nonsense that treats wymyn as poor, helpless victims, while demonizing men as violent, abusive monsters. It should either be renamed and re-written to grant men the exact same protections it does women, or it should be repealed, torn up, and used for compost.

      “I don’t know how the legal system is skewered against men; juror bias maybe?”

      Men are guilty until proven innocent when a woman cries rape. Divorce court and family courts will almost always side with the woman. Female murderers and sex offenders get off with incredibly lenient sentences compared to their male counterparts. And then there’s “battered woman syndrome,” nothing more than a ridiculous defense created by radical feminazi leftists in order to excuse women murdering men.

      “College applicants that are female, a minority, or are poor are given special consideration due to the fact that historically these groups are less likely to pursue higher education and/or have the resources to do so.”

      Again, you’re using history to justify blatant anti-male sexism and discrimination against men who had nothing to do with any of that.

      Oh and women are now graduating from college at a higher rate than men. Where’s the affirmative action for men?

      “As far as women’s health given priority over men, I can’t think of any examples where I would find that to be true.”

      Well let’s see…Cancer, heart health…

      Mar 9, 2012 at 6:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheMarc
      TheMarc

      @JayKay: Gonna make this short and sweet; because due to your nature, you will not acknowledge much in the way of facts, stats or history, which despite your dangerously dismissive attitude toward history, it’s a pretty valid measuring stick for human behavior. Yes, men are not victimized at the same rate as women based on their gender. Battered woman syndrome is a proven psychological state much temporary insanity, ptsd, etc. Yes, I’m using history again. And thanks for proving societies point that the affirmative action policy worked. The reasons men are not graduating at the same rate as women (which isn’t exactly true by the way…again facts are important) are not the same reasons that women and other minorities did not previously. As far as health, what cancer? You mean breast cancer? Yeah, there exists initiatives that support breast cancer prevention, treatment and screening…the same exists for prostate and testicular cancer. Heart health? Women are more likely to ignore heart disease warning signs more so than men, so yeah there’s a push for that, and an obvious reason for it. Much the same way there exists presently initiatives to get men to be more proactive about their overall health due to the male tendency to not be as proactive about their care as females.

      Crustybastard was actually spot on in his assessment of you and I unfortunately indulged your penchant for veering off topic…yet again. This is not about female privilege; which despite your best and more logical assertions, does not exist and certainly not to a level that it cripples males. Are there different rights for females? Yeah. There are also different rights for children and the elderly. Not because of some conspiracy. But because of reality. A place you should visit every now and then.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 6:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheMarc
      TheMarc

      @TheMarc: For you grammar nazis, yeah sorry I didn’t proof this one. I say this as a grammar nazi.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 6:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JayKay
      JayKay

      @TheMarc:

      The best part of female privilege is getting to deny it exists. Anyone who honestly believes that women in the western world have it worse than men is living in some kind of sociology major dream land.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 7:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ryan
      Ryan

      This thread is so Tops VS. Bottoms.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 7:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheMarc
      TheMarc

      @JayKay: Well, I disagree and you haven’t been able to convince me that I’m wrong so…

      Do women have it better? It depends. Do men have it better? It depends. It’s more debatable now than it was some time ago; but even the latest contraception argument shows it’s obvious that women still have a way to go. Just because you have to be a little more careful when engaging women now than 50 years ago does not equal privilege, it equals progress.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 7:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JayKay
      JayKay

      @TheMarc:

      All that contraception fight proves is that liberals would rather force religious believers to abandon their deeply-held moral convictions and right to free exercise of their faith than simply tell women who don’t want to get pregnant to spend their own money on birth control, or just keep their legs closed.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 7:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Clockwork
      Clockwork

      Sharia law prohibits the woman in the gay bar!

      It is the word of Allah.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 8:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • prince of snarkness aka divkid
      prince of snarkness aka divkid

      BUT BUT BUT, WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO ONLY HIT THE BARS WITH THEIR MOTHER!!! WHAT ARE *THEY* (NOT ME!) SUPPOSED TO DO? (not talking about me here. at all. nooooo)

      Mar 9, 2012 at 8:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Clifford
      Clifford

      Irony: the first linked article on the bar at the top of the page is titled “Why Limbaugh’s Advertisers Should’ve Dumped Him Years Ago” and details why advertisers should dump him for being a dick to the LGBT community.

      Really guys? You are going to stoop to this asshole’s level?

      Mar 9, 2012 at 9:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MEJ
      MEJ

      @Dave:

      Spoken like a molly-coddled, and pampered, white urbanite.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 10:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheMarc
      TheMarc

      @JayKay: No, all it proves is that religious leaders believe their religious laws should stand above the same law that governs all of us regardless of religious affiliation. And again with the left/liberal bashing. Funnily, enough the right, who LOVES to invoke the philosophy of the Founding Fathers, seems to forget that this country was founded on the basis of religious freedom. I say if a church or religious organization does not want to cover contraception, fine. But they will start paying taxes. If you want to be a religious organization that works to influence the political structure or candidates’ futures, you are no longer a church; but a political action group, and you all tax exclusions afforded to you should be removed. Alsso, your argument would seem to support, though not directly, that if you want to make more money you should deal with higher taxes. Not very Republican of you.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 10:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sakodak
      sakodak

      @Pannyx: That’s a perfect solution.

      Mar 9, 2012 at 11:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Belize
      Belize

      @JayKay: Men are guilty until proven innocent when a woman cries rape.

      “Permanently altering an infant boy’s genitals without his consent is seen as no big deal, while female circumcision is treated as a form of barbaric genital mutilation.”

      Speaking as someone who was circumcised at a late age, I’m now convinced that you are a moron. First of all, “female circumcision” affects / removes the clitoris which is a primary source of pleasure for women during sexual intercourse. Male circumcision only removes the foreskin–an act which barely affects sexual sensations.

      Also, I find it funny that a Republican is contradicting himself with that statement especially considering the religious nature of circumcision as well as your previous statement on the right to practice religion.

      “Men are guilty until proven innocent when a woman cries rape.”

      I suppose you’re used to it but if you’re a woman “raping” a man, humping a flaccid dick is not considered sexual intercourse. Ergo, it is not considered rape. And if the penis is hard enough to penetrate anything, can that be considered rape? With “supplements” perhaps. But that’s quite the long shot. It’s a case of physiology and science. It’s not nature’s fault you’re too dumb to figure that one out.

      “The best part of female privilege is getting to deny it exists. Anyone who honestly believes that women in the western world have it worse than men is living in some kind of sociology major dream land.”

      The mere fact that they’re the ones who have to risk their lives and carry a child for 9 months to “sustain the species” already means that they have it worse than men, idiot. That is a fact of life that has yet to change in the West or any other part of the world.

      Wow. That was easy.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 12:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JD
      JD

      @Owen: “I recognize that Curves is a private club, as is a bath house. You call it discrimination, I call it ‘separate, but equal,’ and if that makes me some type of bigot, I’ll gladly wear the title.”

      That was quite possibly the most moronic statement I have read on this website. Seriously, look up your history, research “Separate but Equal,” the same legal phrase that was used to justify Jim Crow laws against African Americans in the South before the Civil Rights Movement (which, btw, if it never happened, the LGBT movement probably wouldn’t have gotten nearly as far as it has). Don’t make stupid statements and try to justify it by simply “wear[ing] the title.”

      Mar 10, 2012 at 2:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JD
      JD

      @JD: I’m sorry, that was meant for @DM_Chicago, not Owen.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 2:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Curtis
      Curtis

      Them bitches gots to go >:(

      Mar 10, 2012 at 3:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MEJ
      MEJ

      @Belize:

      Speaking as someone who was circumcised at a late age, I’m now convinced that you are a moron. First of all, “female circumcision” affects / removes the clitoris which is a primary source of pleasure for women during sexual intercourse. Male circumcision only removes the foreskin–an act which barely affects sexual sensations.

      Not all female cirs are that extreme. Many are a removal of the clitoral hood, or the labia majora. Yet these are considered wrong, and people the world over fight to stop parents from forcing this on young girls. Yet no one bats an eye at parents forcing circumcision on their boys.

      As a male who had the option to make his own decision regarding circumcision, I find it amusing that you have no issue with that option being taken away from other males.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 9:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
      PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID

      enough of the idiocy!

      the more that straight people are comfortable around us and (RESPECTFULLY) sharing our spaces, on our own terms, the more gay culture will be embedded in the mainstream and it will pay dividends in the long run when the straights don’t blink an eye when we “get all gay” in their places (ie the world.)

      of course there comes a point a when a line is crossed and it’s no longer a gay space. where and how you draw this line is for wiser minds than mine. perhaps, the ultimate sanction is recourse to some informal quota system. but the principle must ALWAYS be to primarily honour non-discrimination as far as is practically possible.

      exceptions to this rule, perhaps, being private members clubs, sex clubs etc.

      a bar is for socialising. end of. if you use it solely as your meat market, then the internet more tailored to your requirements — isn’t that why it was invented!

      mostly this is lot of less than subtle misogyny. it sounds like you don’t want the girls to know what you really get up to; like your’e guilty or something. what are you afraid of? that their preconceptions of us are true? let the in light, i say. we’ve got nothing to hide.

      they say if you have the choice to educate either a mother or a father, you educate the mother; they have the biggest influence over their children’s minds. these “awful” girls will be mothers one day — and despite what the “jasons” here think, gay men KNOW that women have always been our greatest allies. you don’t treat allies with such disrespect.

      (2nd attempt to post this due to auto-flag. yeah, thanks queerty)

      Mar 10, 2012 at 10:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DM_Chicago
      DM_Chicago

      @JD: I’m well aware of the history of “separate but equal,” not only in the context of Jim Crow laws, but also as it’s used, most notably, by President Obama, to justify his opposition to gay marriage, while supporting civil unions.

      Furthermore, those who argue that private clubs (including gyms, etc.) are discriminatory, are arguing that it’s discrimination for the same reason that “separate but equal” has historically been labeled discrimination. It excludes a group of people from an otherwise public place, and justifies it by saying “look, you can have your own place and have the same type of policy.”

      That being said, the negative connotation that has been added to the words “separate but equal,” does not mean that the terminology can’t have a positive meaning as well. Private clubs aren’t, by nature, bad. If everyone has an equal right to have a private club, but the overall number is limited, so as not to deprive any group access to the majority of businesses, what’s the problem? So some women feel more comfortable working out without men around? So some gay men feel more comfortable drinking at a bar without women? What’s the big deal?

      Why should I, as a man, have the right to demand entry into Curves, thus interfering with the happiness of its members, when I can still go to just about any other gym in America? Likewise, why should a woman have a right to demand entry into a gay club, thus interfering with the happiness of its members, when she can still go to just about any other bar in America?

      Is it discrimination when a woman wants to see a female doctor or a gay man wants to see a gay doctor? Some people would say “yes,” and those same people would call the patients who make special requests, “bigots.” However, most rational people would say that it’s okay, because that’s what makes the patient more comfortable.

      Private clubs aren’t a lingering form of discrimination. Instead, they represent the fact that in terms of public places, we’ve come far enough down the road to equality to openly say that sometimes we just want to be left alone.

      In regards to Wangs in particular, if it discriminated against women while operating as a public establishment, then they broke the law, and they should pay the piper. However, that doesn’t mean that the legal avenue to create a gay bar that only caters to men should not exist, and if Wangs can and does choose to go that route, I fully support it.

      On that note, whether someone wants to infer that my opinion makes me a bigot, or whether you want to refer to my comments as “stupid” and “moronic” (thus inferring that I’m stupid and moronic as well) , name calling certainly isn’t going to get me to change my mind.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 11:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JayKay
      JayKay

      @Belize:

      So it’s not rape if the man gets an erection?

      And if a woman has an orgasm during a rape that automatically makes it 100% consensual, right?

      Mar 10, 2012 at 11:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Huh ...
      Huh ...

      @Belize: “…if you’re a woman “raping” a man, humping a flaccid dick is not considered sexual intercourse. Ergo, it is not considered rape. And if the penis is hard enough to penetrate anything, can that be considered rape?”

      Wow. You wrote something so idiotic and ill-informed that you’re actually losing an argument with JayKay.

      You are my nominee for biggest Queerty dumbass.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 11:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stephen
      Stephen

      In Chicago, there is this strange phenomenon of a bus load (like 20-30) bachelorette party girls pulling up to the most popular gay bars at prime time. The women are drunk and their for the spectacle of gay men. This is just one bars way of dealing with it. Even though it may be illegal : )
      Our alderman Tom Tunney is a weakling who won’t help anyone who is not bringing in money for his cinnamon bun business.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 11:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      Queerty, your argument could not be more full of shit. I lived in Chicago for four years, and in all the times I went out in Boystown, never did I experience an excess of women. If anything, girls can often be the bridge we cross to muster up the courage to talk to a guy she’s with. Occupy Wang’s, ladies!

      Mar 10, 2012 at 2:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Blahqula
      Blahqula

      Sometimes, the street rules apply and you just gotta slap a ho. Just like our pimping, homo hating pandering hetero-cats always say. She doesn’t know what she wants, except she wants everything. Put her hustle in perspective, and tell her, “bitch I gots my own!” Greedy ho, that’s my pockets, I didn’t make this the land of the scam on my own, and you clearly don’t disagree, since the Christian brothers at your back, and you STILL can’t pay the cover, amirite? Bitches is crazy, so I don’t feed ‘em. They can go feral like everybody else with a bone to pick, myself included. Holla!

      Mar 10, 2012 at 2:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dave
      Dave

      MEJ quit describing yourself. I’m not white, rich, and I don’t live in a city.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 3:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Drew
      Drew

      Blahquala that’s interesting considering that you’re a closeted bisexual man who isn’t out about being bisexual, who has said before that you don’t like women and that you’re a misogynist as you’ve just proven yet again.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 3:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Queer Supremacist
      Queer Supremacist

      @MEJ: Me either. What are “straight” “people” doing in GAY bars anyway? These are OUR bars, we have the right to make OUR rules about who WE can serve. There’s a little thing called the right of association some of you are too quick to dismiss.

      Based on their historical treatment of anyone different from themselves, Heterosexuals and gentiles of all races, especially the Aryan race, are oppressor classes. Anti-discrimination laws are meant to protect everybody else from these vermin and do not apply to oppressor classes.

      I believe in collective punishment of the oppressor classes and I support Wang’s decision to kick heterosexual women out (lesbians are another issue). I don’t want them in our bars, our restaurants, our businesses, or our neighborhoods (they re-ghettoize every gay neighborhood when they move in). I don’t want gay business owners to be forced to hire or serve Mormons, Southern Baptists, Catholics or Muslims (all oppressor classes) if they’re just going to create a problem, which they always do.

      We reserve the right to refuse service to our oppressors.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 3:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Queer Supremacist
      Queer Supremacist

      @JayKay: If you were any kind of conservative, you would be supporting them for exercising their right of association.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 3:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BosGuy
      BosGuy

      Ban anyone wearing high heels.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 4:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MEJ
      MEJ

      @Dave:

      Oh, ok Dave. You’re a paraplegic, pregnant lesbian, transgender person of colour who lives in the projects. Is that correct?

      Whatever you are, you’re a douchebag.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 4:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MEJ
      MEJ

      @Queer Supremacist:

      We reserve the right to refuse service to our oppressors.

      Be careful, QS, some readers here will want to burn you at the stake for stating your opinion, and not laying down and allowing the hets to wipe their feet on you as they take over our establishments.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 4:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike
      Mike

      Queer Supremacist is a hypocritical Lincoln Log or Log Cabin Rethuglican. I wouldn’t take anything he says seriously just look at the link in his user name. ;)

      Typical Republican attitude of “let’s discriminate against people and it’s OK only when we do it!”

      Mar 10, 2012 at 5:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tell you what, ladies...
      Tell you what, ladies...

      Women who are upset about this should have to open up their ladies-only gyms and ladies-only political and social organizations to men.

      I should be able to head into my local Curves gym to exercise, and share the locker room with women. As a gay man, I have no sexual interest in them, and denying me equal access is a sexist and homophobic violation of my rights in a place of business!

      Or, you could, you know, just back the fuck off.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 5:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chitown resident
      Chitown resident

      GLBT bars and clubs wish they were this busy here in Chicago! I do still go out to bars and some dance clubs at times but ever since most GLBT people have started going on hook up sites, and Grindr, and living in Chicago you can meet GLBT people in all sorts of places besides just bars and dance clubs there’s no reason to really go to bars as often as you once did decades ago before the internet and Grindr.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 6:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Not a Republican, but...
      Not a Republican, but...

      “Queer Supremacist is a hypocritical Lincoln Log or Log Cabin Rethuglican…Typical Republican attitude of “let’s discriminate against people and it’s OK only when we do it!”

      The irony runs thick here. The same guy complaining that a few hours of queer-only space is “discrimination” proceeds to rip apart an entire class of people — fellow gay men — no less.

      Reminds me of the guys who constantly preach “tolerance and acceptance of others” who dismissively hiss at smokers, hairy guys, guys who are “overweight,” etc.

      Fix your own bigotry before you start pointing at others.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 7:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Trish Jarvis
      Trish Jarvis

      @JayKay:

      You are hilariously stupid. How many nonsensical right-wing clichés can you fit into your posts!?

      ‘Feminazis’ – check.
      Hatred of women – check.
      Victim-mentality – check.

      Keep’em coming!

      Mar 10, 2012 at 7:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • showmeindc
      showmeindc

      I don’t mind if straight women want to hang out in our bars, but I do mind when bachelorette parties make gay bars part of their celebration. In many states we do not have the right to marry and it is insensitive for them to blatantly flaunt their rights in our faces.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 7:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chris
      Chris [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Well said Not a Republican, Queer Supremacist is nothing but a bigot as his or her posts have shown.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 7:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JayKay
      JayKay

      @Trish Jarvis:

      Thanks for the valuable input, ma’am.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 7:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MEJ
      MEJ

      @showmeindc:

      Very good point, showmeindc.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 8:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • FunMe
      FunMe

      Funny, I just went to The Abbey in West Hollywood after not going for a long time. Sure enough it was TOO MANY women, and MANY straight men with them. I mean we don’t have many gay bars, why do they turned our gay clubs into mixed (i.e. more straight than gay). I mean I LOVE my women but come on! Can’t we gays have our own clubs to be able to cruise our men?

      When I go to a gay club … I want GAY men!

      About Chicago … couldn’t they have a “woman only” to make it equal … or basically not illegal?

      Mar 10, 2012 at 9:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Eldergay
      Eldergay

      FunMe I’ll take a mixed crowd full of LGBT friendly straight people or allies any day over the 70s and 80s pointless isolationist bars and dance clubs that had only bisexual and gay men in them, and most straight people were very homophobic.

      Mar 10, 2012 at 9:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ChicagoPete
      ChicagoPete

      Trish Jarvis-Don’t forget Queer Supremacist he’s clearly a rightwing freeper and bigot, even if he or she wants to claim they’re not.

      I’ve been a bartender in an LGBT bar here in Chicago and I’m fine with having straight people come in as customers, and all of the LGBT bar customers are fine with it too. The bigots in this thread are thankfully a minority in the LGBT community.

      Mar 11, 2012 at 12:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      Been having the convo over on huffpost. The straight women just DO NOT UNDERSTAND that there are reasons, valid reasons, that straights in queer spaces can be annoying. UGH, hags…

      I don’t want to go to a gay or lesbian bar and hit on women only to realize they are straight. I don’t want straight men hitting on me. I do not want to be goggled at like an animal in a zoo. So on and so forth. They’ll never get it though.

      What it really comes down to is hetero entitlement, though, which irks me to no end, and it’s the same reason I quit keeping fag hags nearly a decade ago.

      Mar 11, 2012 at 3:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
      PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID

      queerty, unflag my previous comment. goddamit.
      two fucking days awaiting moderation….or it’s offski for me.

      Mar 11, 2012 at 11:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • M.W.
      M.W.

      What’s really disappointing about this comment thread is there seem to be two camps:

      1) The right wingers ranting about “out of control liberals” and “the myth of gender inequality”.

      and 2) The people against them who don’t seem to be able to understand the nuance of the situation, that this isn’t just an issue of men keeping women out of an area, it’s GAY men keeping STRAIGHT women out of an area.

      Why do we have to have one group saying how unfair they think it is that there’s no “men’s history month” (hint: every month of the year is men’s history month), gyms for men (hint: most gyms are gyms for men, even if women go there too, it’s still a “men’s gym”), etc, and another group that doesn’t seem to understand how GAY men keeping STRAIGHT women out of a GAY BAR is more analogous to a women-only space (like a gym, a music festival, etc) than, say, a country club that excludes women?

      We are an oppressed people. Yes, women are an oppressed people as well, but as an oppressed people it is our right to demand a space that is exclusively ours, and to exclude people from the privileged/oppressor group, which in this case is straight people.

      There is nothing wrong with us wanting a space that is ours and ours alone, without being fetishized by straight women who want to come party in our bars and say “OH MY GOD I LOVE GAY GUYS, YOU’RE SO CUTE, TELL ME HOW PRETTY YOU THINK I AM!”. Gay bars are the one place where it is not all about straight people, it is all about US, and I’m tired of straight people coming into our spaces and trying to turn all the attention onto themselves.

      Mar 11, 2012 at 3:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jordan
      Jordan

      M.W. get over yourself you misogynistic bigot. Straight women have as much of a right to be in GLBT or gay bars and queer spaces as GLBT people do.

      Mar 11, 2012 at 3:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Astark
      Astark

      There is such a thing as “maximum occupancy” laws and in a popular “gay” bar, those occupying space (especially if there is a cover charge) have every right to expect that the majority of others in attendance are also going to be gay guys…..

      In a 90% straight world, there are PLENTY of places for chicks to go promenade themselves, look pretty, and get guys to look at them or adore them. Isn’t there a Lady’s Night going on somewhere? I have no guilt in saying: “back off the turf, betch….This seat is MINE”

      Ever gotten this line??: “Pfft, Some gentleman you are!”

      If a girl ever pulls that “chivalry” stuff in the same breath she oversteps with some form of religious or culturally-defined gender-expectation for “a Male’s behavior should be around a lady”
      …Bring her back to what Chivalry really is: a way for heterosexuals to get laid, a mating ritual…
      I have no part of it. Even & equal, that means no special gender oriented favors outside of what I’m doing for myself and sharing with the moment.
      The once strong West Hollywood gay scene got totally ruined by this sort of allowance in the last 15 years…now the core community is disbanded and marginalized again…hidden 1 in 10 at the now-straight bars.

      Mar 11, 2012 at 3:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @Jordan: No they don’t. The reverse discrimination argument does not work when there is no equality. Many straight people in gay bars are the goggling at the zoo types. I deal with heteros day in and day out, their dumb, ignorant questions, their discriminatory attitudes…the last place I should have to deal with the straights is in a gay bar.

      When I go to a queer bar, I want the women I hit on to be queer. I don’t want to deal with men. There is nothing wrong with this policy, and the legal issue is easily fixed with a “nightly membership” type situation. That turns it private/members only, and they can do what they want. Furthermore, its nothing but hetero entitlement. They are used to being catered to all over. Well guess what? For once, it is not all about them. And in a gay bar, that is how it should be.

      Mar 11, 2012 at 4:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • wiredpup
      wiredpup

      Dallas has two lesbian bars, no men allowed, unless escorted, and then they still treat you like shit. I could care less if a lesbian wants to come to a men’s bar,but I would ban straight people though. All those skinny little blond bitches bringing their straight boyfriends (who get pissed if they get hit on), getting drunk, making asses of themselves, puking all over, screaming WHOOOOO all night. That is not a fun night out. But the biggest thing that sucks about the Dallas bars is that they’re a monopoly owned by one company, who forces out independent owners and make them shut down. The ONLY bars I know of thwt isn’t part of that monopoly is The Eagle and The Hidden Door, and the only ones that will get my money.

      Mar 11, 2012 at 7:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • wiredpup
      wiredpup

      @Ryan: Amen Ryan!

      Mar 11, 2012 at 7:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • wiredpup
      wiredpup

      @Queer Supremacist: Right on brother!

      Mar 11, 2012 at 7:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • wiredpup
      wiredpup

      @Shannon1981: Hey Shainnon!

      Mar 11, 2012 at 7:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @wiredpup: Hey hey!

      Mar 11, 2012 at 9:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Russ
      Russ

      I think this may also problematic from a non-binary gender perspective. How are “man” and “woman” defined in this situation? Do trans men with F on their drivers licenses get the boot? What about men in drag? What about genderqueer people? Increasingly gay “men only” spaces seem to be “masculine men only” spaces, which is a little troubling. I’m not saying this is at play in this specific instance with this specific bar, only that once you start segregating people into two discrete gender categories, you leave a sizeable minority of the queer community in the dust.

      Mar 11, 2012 at 11:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Oh, ok.
      Oh, ok.

      Most women go to gay bars to laugh and gawk at the stereotypical queens they expect to see when they get there.

      It’s rather ironic for some to go on about women’s rights when the women who do this are in fact discriminating against gay men. I agree with the first post, impose a cover charge, it’s not illegal, and will keep most away…especially if it’s a high one. It won’t be as fun to go to the “comedy club” if you have to pay four times what you’d pay in drinks just to enter the door.

      We don’t have many places where we can comfortably be ourselves without a care in the world. Straight people often take every chance they can to abuse the fact that they can go anywhere and be themselves while throwing it in our faces.

      A great deal of the women who claim to be allies only like gay stereotypes. It’s toxic behavior and I personally can’t stand it.

      Mar 12, 2012 at 12:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tea
      Tea

      As a girl who goes to gay clubs (though not bars), I can see why people would feel strongly on both sides of this issue. On one hand, gay-safe spaces can be difficult to find, let alone ones being inundated by straight people. On the other hand, that doesn’t make a policy like this… not sexist, or not illegal. A public restaurant isn’t allowed to discriminate against any of their patrons on race, gender, or indeed sexual orientation (in certain states, thought it would be nice if this was applied nation-wide). If a bar with a primarily black clientele started banning any non-black patrons, this would be a problem too.

      If the club chose to become a private venue (charge membership fees only to gay men, ban everyone else) and not public, they can choose to do so. Having Men’s Nights and charging $20 cover fees to the ladies seems like a reasonable compromise too. Outright banning, though, crosses the line to gender and other types of discrimination we shouldn’t allow in public stores.

      Mar 12, 2012 at 11:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • lil
      lil

      Oh pls stop the increasing influx of fag hags(not lovely and lvoing friends of lgbt folk but the made up bitchy ones , you all know the ones I mean). Since the fashion for going to gay clubs for these women,there has been an increase in homophobia towards lesbians and bi women as well as squeezing out room for gay men, some are quite often are right bitches to the more bois like and butcher dykes in bars.One example of many,I heard a group of these women laughing and making fun of the manster then telling her to use the mens toilet as she freaked them out,this to a personal butch friend in a gay club??

      If some clubs want to just have men only at some point why not?As long as there are pubs and clubs for hetro and lgbt to happily have a good night out together, which is cool to have all your mates on a night out sometimes,why is it such a problem to stop women going into one or two gay mens clubs at certain times or vice versa?

      Mar 14, 2012 at 2:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • lil
      lil

      @M.W.: well said! Lesbian here and I enjoy going out with all sexualities but I and many others like to have at least one safe space to just be, without the endless cliched remarks we are subjected to and supposed to smile and politely find these flippant ignorant remark amusing,even after 20 yrs of the same jokes/questions/bloody interest in our sex lives or blatant homophobia.

      That is the difference between going out with some mates of all types and ending up in a lgbt club full of drunken strangers who came to see the show, or didnt want to be picked up.

      Give gay men some space! Not end of the world and not sexist, just lets balance things so everyone can have some fun.

      Mar 14, 2012 at 2:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • wiredpup
      wiredpup

      @lil: Someone who gets it. :)

      Mar 14, 2012 at 3:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Emil
      Emil

      This is totally crazy…gays should stick together with supporters, even though they’re female. It’s obvious that no homophobes would go to a gay bar, so what’s the point? If you’re not into girls just ignore them and stay with guys…
      And why no one considers bisexuals?

      I live in Italy and since the gay community is not as strong as in other parts of the world, we know that we have to stick together… push women out of our bars? Are you kidding me? At least they don’t try to arrest/ beat us up! The thing is, it seems to me that as soon as the common purpose of being accepted is achieved, people just start inner fights: gays vs lesbians vs bisexuals vs supporters vs…..

      Rejoice in your freedom!

      Mar 15, 2012 at 11:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MaryT
      MaryT

      Hey all :) Ok I’m a girl and I always felt welcome into the bars, including Little Jims, Manhole, AA Meat market, Little Jims, Charlies, Circuit, Vortex, Roscoes, Spin, and even Cell Block! This was when i was going out with friends in 2000 to 2005! I’ve been out of the neighorhood since 2005 so I am shocked to read this!!! has boystown changed that much? OK now I know and agree about the stupid Bachelorette parties where the stupid 20-something girls come to the Land of oz and think wow looky all the cute hunky guys and I know they can get on your nerves, especially when they are acting crazy and disrespectfully drunk and/or if some girls come in and try to manhandle the dancers, or whatever, but I always came in, yeah i might have gotten tipsy, but I neve acted bad because i know how to act. Are you all saying that I would not be welcome anymore????? I hope not, now I dont know if I would be welcome if I know how to be respectful of the gay guys and everyone else!!!! i really enjoyed the times I had in all the places out dancing and having fun. The worst I got were people curious about me being a girl, and they asked me “Do you know your in a gay bar” haha but they were just curious, not rude. Please say it isn’t so that girls that are respectful are not welcome :( hey I just mainly wanted to go out dancing and be with my guy friends. I never had a problem with anyone or anything. But back to the topic, I can understand guys wanting a break from the women because yeah I do think that the men out of basic gentlemanship might feel inhibited because of the respect men usually have for women (whether they be gay or straight) I do know that the gay guys do tend to be respectful of women in general.. So just like Steamworks where I never set foot in since I know its men only, I guess its ok to have a time when its men only, I’m not going to be overly Politically correct and demand that I get in there because its the law, because I respect ya’ll wanna have a men-only night. Thats cool,, but hey let me know if me being a female you really dont want me there, even though I know how to conduct myself and I have money to spend.

      Oct 16, 2012 at 6:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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