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Saddleback Church Site Not Taking Down Gay Condemnations After All

QUEERTY REPORTS — We received a nice email from Kristin Cole, the press rep for the Sadleback Church letting us know that they are keeping their anti-gay rhetoric on the church website after all.

Cole writes us:

“I wanted to make sure you were aware that the Q & A addressing homosexuality on the Saddleback Church Web site has not been permanently removed, but rather repurposed for clarity. I know your readers have noticed the change.

Attached is the audio response from Saddleback Associate Pastor Tom Holladay regarding the question, “What Does the Bible Say About homosexuality – is it a sin?” that will be posted later this morning on the site.

Wanted to make sure you were aware of this. Thanks!”

Oh, no– thank you. We’re more than happy to let people know that Saddleback still considers homosexuality a sin and that it won’t allow gays and lesbians to join their church. You can listen to Pastor Tom below:

[flv:http://queerty.com/media/Pastor_Toms_Answer.mp3 http://www.queerty.com/wp/docs/2008/12/holladay.jpg 300 200]

In related news, TMZ reports that Rev. Rick Warren stopped by “Out of the Closet”, an HIV/AIDS related thrift store in West Hollywood yesterday, where he posed for a photo-op with Erol Sarabi, whose homosexuality makes him a sinner unwelcome to be a member of Warren’s church in addition to being a convenient human prop.

By:           Japhy Grant
On:           Dec 23, 2008
Tagged: , , ,

  • 48 Comments
    • Joe Lagana
      Joe Lagana

      A recent Advocate cover told us that “gay is the new black”. I beg to differ. These days, this particular gay is feeling more like the new kike wop spic nigger greaseball. Let’s use our words correctly.

      Dec 23, 2008 at 4:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael W.
      Michael W.

      Well until we see this updated language, who knows what it will entail?

      Let’s hope for the best. If gay members are excluded from the church then maybe Saddleback is about to open its doors to everyone.

      Dec 23, 2008 at 4:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Timothy
      Timothy

      How interesting…

      All of the specifics of Scripture have been replaced with “the Bible is clear”. And magically, Biblical history has been rewritten into sexuality within the confines of a committed relationship and marriage.

      I wish these religious folk would actually READ their Bible some time before they try and tell me what it says.

      And I challenge them to find me five Biblical heros – just five – that had a “traditional Biblical marriage” in the way in which their church defines it.

      Dec 23, 2008 at 4:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Frank H
      Frank H

      What does it say on Erol’s T-shirt in the picture?

      Dec 23, 2008 at 4:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Celia the lurker
      Celia the lurker

      *cuddles homo*

      *runs away screaming when camera goes away*

      Dec 23, 2008 at 4:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Pragmatist
      Pragmatist

      That guy really gives me the heebie-jeebies. (Warren, not Sarabi.)

      Dec 23, 2008 at 5:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dave
      Dave

      I’m not a

      Gardener ( s ?)

      I just Like

      - I suspect it says men after that, which would make the orange-yellowy thing an orange

      thus

      I’m not a
      Gardener
      I just Like Men

      Dec 23, 2008 at 5:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael W.
      Michael W.

      @Frank H: “I’m Not a Gardener, I Just Like Hos.”

      Dec 23, 2008 at 5:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • a. mcewen
      a. mcewen

      I really don’t believe that explanation. It is obvious (based on the comments Warren made about bloggers) that this situation is making his head spin more than he wants to admit.

      I think the removal of the anti-gay comments were genuine and now he is trying to be defiant.

      Keep the pressure up. I like the fact that Warren is now stewing in the mess he made.

      Dec 23, 2008 at 5:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bruno
      Bruno

      Erol, c’mon, at what lengths would you go to find a nice bear?

      Dec 23, 2008 at 6:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ken
      Ken

      Christianity = The Belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh, and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

      Dec 23, 2008 at 8:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Merlin
      Merlin

      Segregationists often use a strangle hold on others, so they keep control.

      This is just another segregationist preacher who looks too hungry for his own good, in 2008. Christian bullies in America were just as fervant in their support of slavery using these same text as these guys use homophobia for fund raising while creating their segregated communities today. Still never quite talking about their sexuality.

      Dec 23, 2008 at 8:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Beef Boullion
      Beef Boullion

      Dec 23, 2008 at 9:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Geo Vaughn
      Geo Vaughn

      I SAY WE ALL CRASH THEIR SUNDAY CHURCH SERVICE DECKED IN RAINBOW GEAR, AND THROW AN END OF THE YEAR PRIDE FEST!!!!!!

      Dec 23, 2008 at 10:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BrianPrince
      BrianPrince

      The bible has been interpreted so many times, over such a long period of time, by so many different people, that at times, its accuracy must be called into question… or, more importantly — the accuracy of this interpretation (not just THIS interpretation, but ANY interpretation). At one point, the term now translated as “gays” was used to condemn the practice of having male temple prostitutes… Martin Luther (the Preacher, not the Civil Rights leader) interpreted it to mean that masturbation was a sin (seriously, look up “Malakoi Arsenokoitai”).

      That being said, I think that everybody is entitled to believe as they wish… I, personally, believe that bigotry in the name of religion is a major driving factor in the perpetual denigration of society… but then again, I’m just a fag….

      Dec 24, 2008 at 1:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JJJJ
      JJJJ

      Warren is getting a lot of good publicity for himself out of this. Now he’s been chosen as the keynote speaker at the Ebenezer Baptist Church (Atlanta) event for Martin Luther King celebrations.

      Dec 24, 2008 at 1:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herman
      Herman

      I guess Warren does indeed have gay friends. But that cringing smile and close fisted hug even for a photo op. Who puts his arm around you that way? Message to Warren: gay isn’t contagious. How much you wanna bet he didn’t ask for hand sanitizer as soon as he hopped into his limo?

      “I’m not a gardner, I just like hos.” (hoes)
      From Crooked Monkey Tees
      http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1455/6268048/18136670/284785815.jpg

      Dec 24, 2008 at 4:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harold
      Harold

      I guess Warren does indeed have gay friends. But that cringing smile and close fisted hug even for a photo op. Who puts his arm around you that way? Message to Warren: gay isn’t contagious. How much you wanna bet he didn’t ask for hand sanitizer as soon as he hopped into his limo?

      “I’m not a gardner, I just like hos.” (hoes)
      From Crooked Monkey Tees
      http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1455/6268048/18136670/284785815.jpg

      Dec 24, 2008 at 4:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Evangelist Stallings
      Evangelist Stallings

      The LORD himself spoke thes words to me on 12/24/08 at 3:45am,it’s the Church position to win the Lost at any Cost, give the facts read and pray for understanding He is the Same God of Genesis 18:17-21. You see Pastor Rick, President Elect, and to all of the Sodomites and Gomorrah Gay Communties, you can do all the endorsing and rage attacks that you want, Once God send his Angels and THE power of his Word out it’s going down, here and throughout Creation you will not ever have to worry about any type of rights what so ever, Once you get to the message in Gen19 it will all be salt and sulfur, don’t get mad, get delivered and surrender your All to the Savior, this also includes those of an Reprobate Mind,whoever said the words pro-choice must have never been Born-Again, according to Romans 1-:19-27. The only rights we have is living in His Righteousnes and Love, trust not in the arm of flesh and whose heart departeth from the LORD;Jeremiah 17:5

      Dec 24, 2008 at 4:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • nikko
      nikko

      No he didn’t, EVANGELIST STALLIONS. Now get back in the lion ring, pronto!!! Or take your meds. The choice is yours.

      Dec 24, 2008 at 5:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nathanial
      Nathanial

      @ Evangelist Stallings –

      Forget “born again”… try GROWING THE HELL UP!

      Dec 24, 2008 at 8:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Diogenes
      Diogenes

      Isn’t GLUTTONY one of the seven deadly sins?

      Better put down that turkey drumstick and hit the gym, Ricky!

      Dec 24, 2008 at 12:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Micha Weinblatt
      Micha Weinblatt

      That shirt is available at http://www.crookedmonkey.com
      /product_info.php?cPath=2&products_id=37

      Its a pretty awesome shirt

      Dec 24, 2008 at 1:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • shivadog
      shivadog

      @Ken: Thank you for providing the best summary of christianity I’ve ever heard. LMAO!

      Dec 24, 2008 at 1:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chuck
      chuck

      “He who keeps the law is a discerning son, but a companion of gluttons disgraces his father.” Proverbs 23:2 proclaims, “Put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony.”

      Dec 24, 2008 at 7:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Frank H
      Frank H

      @Michael W.: “I’m Not a Gardener, I Just Like Hos.” Rick Warren will now go back to his followers and use this shirt as more evidence that — as he has always said — homosexuals are all just self-proclaimed promiscuous degenerates and therefore in need of repentance from their evil thoughts and deeds. Oy.

      Dec 25, 2008 at 3:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tina
      Tina

      I don’t know the entire background of Rick with his arm around this dude in the pic, why it was taken, the event surrounding it, but, Rick Warren has the right to believe whatever he truly believes…HOWEVER, if it is true he doesn’t allow gays in his church, then when I look at this picture, it makes me want to hurl…it’s that disgusting. What a phoney.

      No wonder people are turned off by the church -

      Dec 25, 2008 at 2:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tina
      Tina

      I mean seriously…how can anyone NOT be allowed in a church…for ANY reason!?!?!? What the hell is the premise of ‘the church’ then? IT MAKES NO SENSE!!!! *banging head on desk in frustration*

      Dec 25, 2008 at 2:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • nikko
      nikko

      C’mon, TINA, don’t be so ignorant of christianity. Anyone can attend church, but only people who align themselves within “biblical” principles can apply for membership. Church means a body of people who believe in Jesus as Saviour and Lord and seek to follow his example in their lives as scattered throughout the New Testament. I used to be a born again believer, so I obviously disagree with the bible’s anti-gay teaching , though I do pick and choose as to what holds true for me because many things are so ridiculous, harsh, offensive,inconsistent, contradicting, etc. Only god really knows what we believe, I guess.

      Dec 25, 2008 at 7:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tina
      tina

      :-D I should clarify….I am currently in seminary (started at the age of 40) and actually just recently entered the ‘discernment’ stage of becoming a ‘sister’. It is my goal to make the sisterhood ‘cool’. First thing we need to do…CHANGE THE NUN OUTFIT! GAWD!

      Dec 25, 2008 at 7:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tina
      tina

      I’m thinkin’ jeans, tank top, hoodie and flip flops…seriously….much more approachable…unless you’re in Minnesota in January…then you can have boots and a hat. :-D

      Dec 25, 2008 at 8:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • nikko
      nikko

      TINA, really?! What kind of seminary? What theological, denominational backgroud?

      Dec 25, 2008 at 8:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tina
      Tina

      Bethel Seminary in St. Paul, MN. http://seminary.bethel.edu.

      The seminary is baptist. I’m not much of a ‘church’ person myself and don’t really ‘belong’ to any specific church currently (I feel ‘belonging’ to a church is to restrictive for me). I’m totally more of a ‘go out and do’ rather than sit and listen. I found two churches out in San Diego that I really dug, but as time went by I’m all like ‘okay…this is great to hear and such, but WHAT THE HELL ARE WE DOING!?!??!” So…I just went off on my own and ‘did’.:)

      I started seminary basically to learn about the bible as I am someone who didn’t know squat about it going into this and found it very hard to learn about in the church (even small groups and such). So, I started seminary basically just to learn about the bible, but after I graduate, I hope to go on and work on global poverty issues or something on that order (my background is finance).

      It’s actually a really exciting time for me right now as I am open to any and all possibilities that come my way :)

      Dec 25, 2008 at 10:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tina
      Tina

      I should also note that I was baptized just 3 years ago this January at age 36. Well, RE-baptized…the baptism I had at 3 months of age really wasn’t a decision that I had a say in, so I don’t believe it ‘counts’ :)

      Dec 25, 2008 at 11:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Perfidius
      Perfidius

      Thank you Ken, #11. I was wondering how to explain this belief system to my space-alien friends.

      As for the people telling us to shut up about all this nonsense. You first.

      Dec 26, 2008 at 9:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @Michael W.:

      “maybe Saddleback is about to open its doors to everyone.”

      Like, this is a good thing? ;-)

      Dec 27, 2008 at 1:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steve
      Steve

      Everyone seems to forget that the bible was written by men and the stories pieced together by men. These were the same men at the time that excluded woman, we’re sleeping with prostitutes, we’re taking money, land, and other wealth from everyone to become stronger and wealthier. The bible tells us that only one set of rules was written supposedly by God himself and that was the Ten Commandments. Correct me if I’m wrong, but homosexuality is not mentioned as a sin by God. The bible also states that it is a sin to kill another, yet christians openly support soldiers. It says not eat from the pig, but churches have ham dinners. It says you should not wear two different types of clothing, yet everyone does. Oh and the big one, its a sin to have incest, yet their belief is that is how we all came to exist.

      Dec 27, 2008 at 11:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Abeltwen
      Abeltwen

      For those who may be not be totally clear (Tina): according to the message from Pastor Tom at Saddleback, while homosexuals are not allowed to join as members of the church, they are however welcomed to attend the church ceremonies.

      Dec 28, 2008 at 10:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • nikko
      nikko

      That’s right, STEVE, so where’s all the moral outrage from christians on their “sins”??! I’ll tell you, they’re full of lying, ignorant shit….and Jesus will spit them out of his mouth on that great day!

      Dec 29, 2008 at 12:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tina
      tina

      Well, isn’t that so generous of them…”come…sit…but don’t even THINK about becoming one of ‘us’…we’re SPECIAL!” *sarcasm*

      Dec 29, 2008 at 7:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tina
      tina

      That sort of thought makes me have bad high school flashbacks…PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE LET ME BE ONE OF THE ‘COOL’ KIDS!!!! *rolling eyes*

      Dec 29, 2008 at 7:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tina
      tina

      This would be reason 842 that although I’m in the process of giving my entire life to serving God, I am not a member of any church.

      Dec 29, 2008 at 8:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GK Smith
      GK Smith

      I’m a Christian. One of the most basic tenants of our religion is that we are ALL sinners. That includes hetro ‘ol me, my LGBT friends sitting next to me in chruch, Rick Warren, EVERYBODY. If sinners can’t joing thier church, it should become a museum!

      Jan 9, 2009 at 4:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tina
      tina

      AMEN!

      high-five! *slap!*

      :-D

      Jan 9, 2009 at 5:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • thomas
      thomas

      Hello,
      I want you guys to know that I came upon this sight for my own reasons. No, I’m not gay. I am a Christian. I struggle each day. Yes, I sin. Christians aren’t immune to sin. If anything at times it’s worse. I’m not going to get into homosexuality and if it’s a sin. I know what it’s like not to be excepted or to feel excepted. I think we all do. But, I would like to expand on some comments that have been made. I’m sure you guys and girls feel strong about your views. So do I. I would like to comment on the 10 commandments issue. The 10 commandments were given by God (through Moses). So was the first 5 books of the bible. Including leviticus. This book covers the entire law. As far as being written by men. You are correct but it was inspired by God. To say that it wasn’t is to question the validity of anything in it. I have struggled most of my life with these very questions. No, as Christians we are not where we should be. I’ve heard the terms bigotry thrown around and to some degree it’s correct. But, I’ve also heard on both sides of the fence. Is it anymore right depending on which side you’re on? This isn’t meant to be or sound mean. I strive to love all people. It’s hard sometimes I admit. But, it is what I am called to do. As far as a biblical definition of marriage. There were several men through out scripute that did take more than one wife. Other than that I know of no other types of relationships. I read several of these messages and seen things like (I choose out of the bible what to believe). However,I submit that if we just take what we think is right then we might as well use a magazine. I don’t go to saddleback and I pray that God will show each one of us the truth of who he is. Of course there were comments made that would indicate that they don’t believe in God. For you guys I would ask you to watch a sunset or see a childs eyes when he first looks at something in amazement. When I use to party and chase girls the last thing I wanted was to believe. I don’t expect to change your mind about anything. I just want you to see whether I believe you are right or wrong shouldn’t matter as much as do you believe you matter to me. I try not to get into a fair contest with God. I don’t want fair. Well, you guys take care. .

      Sep 26, 2009 at 5:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • April
      April

      I was a member of Saddleback Church until this week.

      A few months ago I went to a regular service. P. Rick was speaking that day. He was talking about the colonoscopy he had just had that morning. Yes. At a CHURCH SERVICE.

      I listened & admittedly laughed here & there as he told numerous “butt” jokes related to his uncomfortable colonoscopy. He also spoke of the drugs they had administered to him & how “loopy” they made him feel.

      So the rear-end ‘jokes’ continued…all the while a very full congregation howled w/laughter.

      And then, out of nowhere Pastor Rick proceeded to say “Now I know why I’m not gay.”

      Yes. He actually said that. My jaw dropped open & I looked around to see if anyone was as horrified as me, but all I saw were huge grinning faces. I left early. Not early enough I admit.

      I was a member of this church for about 9 years. Not anymore. I realize people are human & make mistakes but a pastor is held to a very high standard. Especially Pastor Rick Warren.

      I am good friends w/2 women who are gay & they won’t go near a church now. They WERE going to come to Saddleback w/me. I guess God spared them?!

      Peace!
      April D.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 12:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • koko
      koko

      Sexy Ass Porn Ass

      Dec 12, 2009 at 5:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ken Mock
      Ken Mock

      i inadvertently let an evangelical fundi cult member of the infamous saddleback church adopt my grandson before i was aware of the dangers….after rescuing him from social services, now i have to come up with a plan on how to systematically undermine his imprinting/christian contamination without getting caught…..he’s 4 and at present he rakes my zen sand garden when he’s here and i have icons representing every world religion around my house to stimulate interest/ distraction/questions…..but i’m open to suggestions…….

      Dec 28, 2009 at 4:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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