Gay, bi, and queer characters have been staking out a bigger claim in film and television, but as anyone who follows GLAAD’s research can attest, representation of LGBTQ characters has to be about quality and not just quantity.
In a recent Reddit thread, gay men discussed the gay representation they’d like to see more of in media. And many of the most popular comments had a common refrain: Gay guys just want to see familiar-looking gay guys living familiar-seeming lives and having everyday triumphs and troubles. In other words, they want media to put the “normal” in gay normalization. Whatever “normal” means!
Here are some of the top comments from the thread:
“Lower-class or working-class” gays
“Personally, I’d like to see more representation of gay men who struggle financially. Like, gay men who come from lower-class or working-class kinds of backgrounds. It seems like a lot of the gay characters in most TV shows and movies come from middle-class or upper-class kinds of backgrounds. I’d also like to see more representation of gay men who aren’t conventionally attractive. Like, gay men who aren’t muscular.”
“A character who struggles with something other than being gay and/or their masculinity”
“I want a character who struggles with something other than being gay and/or their masculinity. Give me a chubby gay guy who deals with lookism or body image, an impoverished gay guy, a gay guy with no direction in life… all the same problems as others. Also, different body types other than skinny twink or muscular jock. Average-looking, ugly-looking, scarred up, short, tall, fat, wrinkly, whatever. Oh, and gay main characters… especially in non-romance and especially non-high school romance [storylines]. It feels like gay men are either non-existent or they end up being some background character that doesn’t get much spotlight.”
“More mundane stories”
“‘Boring’ relationships. I want to see more mundane stories, not stories that end in overdose, murder, disease, and absolute chaos. I’m tired of everything being a tragedy. I want more stories and characters that aren’t fixated on glamour, youth, shallow ties, bodies. Characters that aren’t petty or constantly snarky. Also, more elder gays.”
“Normal relationships between two men”
“Gay couples that are just there without anyone making a big deal about it or making it part of some gay plot line. Guys who do not revolve around going to bars, clubs, circuit parties, gay beach getaways, and whatever the f*ck. Unaffected men who speak like normal human beings. Normal relationships between two men that don’t involve drugs, weird emotional issues/trauma, betrayal, or violence. Just normal, healthy relationships. No one dying or being killed. No one being ousted or destroyed by their community. Just normal life problems and happy endings.”
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“I didn’t realize how many unresolved issues I had been carrying around until I just binged the show.”
“More accurate representation in terms of homophobia”
“I like the idea of more low-income gays in media. Also, femme gays who aren’t stereotypically gay—e.g. I would never be described as masculine by most, but I also don’t wear women’s clothing or nail polish. Also, more nuanced gay relationships; I have a long-term boyfriend, and we’re monogamous, and you only see that in very Lifetimey gays, and I wanna see stuff about the relationship that isn’t sex-based. Also, weird/non-typical/not traditionally ‘handsome’ gays. Guys who like [Dungeons and Dragons] or anime, who aren’t focused on being hot so they can hook up. I wanna see everyday trials and tribulations that are affected by being gay without it being the sole subject matter.
“I also want to see more accurate representation in terms of homophobia. I lived downtown in a major U.S. city over the past year or so, and every day on the street, I’d get some homophobic remark or abuse from someone. People act like gays are accepted and it’s a non-issue because gay marriage passed, and I still have to deal with this crap all the time. I wanna see men who deal with this and are still thriving, because it’s very hard on my mental wellbeing, and it just gets glossed over. Also, more PDA than a quick peck. I’m not looking for adult films, but I want to see gay men who love each other and aren’t afraid of showing it, an example being the couple from Modern Family. They seemed more like very close bros than husbands.”
“Same-sex stuff” in advertising
“Just… same-sex stuff. Car adverts, jewelry adverts, grocery store adverts—basic society stuff in every aspect of what is seen in every bit of general media from the ads to the TV shows or film. It’s better than it was, but hoo boy, it could be much improved.”
“Gay people living normal, happy lives”
“Honestly, just gay people living normal, happy lives. One of my favorite gay shows is Schitt’s Creek because it doesn’t show being gay through a lens of tragedy or constant struggle. It shows what we could have in the world: just people living and existing.”
“More disabled gay characters”
“More disabled gay characters, because it’s exhausting reminding y’all we exist and deserve love too.”
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Covid Hermit
Could we PLEASE have more average-looking guys? What about guys over 25 years old? I’m honestly tired of 20-year-olds with perfectly muscled physiques. I’m 44, I don’t look like that (and never did when I was in my 20s), and what’s more, in the real world most of the guys I see also aren’t perfectly sculpted Adonises. If we’re all supposed to be supportive of body positivity, then why is it that the only thing we see is youth and physical perfection?
joeboyle49
HELLO:
YES MORE NORMAL GAYS AND THE REGULAR PROBLEMS OF GAY PEO[LE. IT WAS HARD GROWING UP AND NOT KNOWING OTHER GAYS OR GUYS THAT WERE GAY AND KNEW IT.
abfab
Normal.
CatholicXXX
No I want hot guys not fuglies. Hotties are easier to watch.
KissBananaPeels
AGREED…we talk about the MENTAL HEALTH problems and the DRUG PROBLEMS…the imagery is part of the PROBLEM…gay men DO NOT see themselves they see what other gay men LUST over and therefore it causes a MESSED UP reality…
NO, Matt Bomer IS NOT the default gay man in terms of looks and body…STOP THAT GARBAGE!!
FreddieW
“gay men who aren’t conventionally attractive”
I prefer to see hot guys, but there are already shows featuring gay men who aren’t conventionally attractive. If you can stomach the bad scripts and characters whose only purpose is to represent letters in the LGBTQ+ acronym, I recommend Star Trek: Discovery. Personally, I think Jonathan Frakes should be embarrassed he’s associated with it.
KissBananaPeels
YOU ARE SO WRONG…
The show is AWESOME and the gay actors are STELLAR…but you are biased and ignorant…OK more ignorant than anything else
FreddieW
I think a majority of male Star Trek fans would agree with me. Michelle Yeoh was the only thing that show had going for it. When she left, it quickly became garbage.
still_onthemark
try “Somebody Somewhere” (HBO) which has gay and queer characters who are homely and happy to stay in small town Kansas and never date or have sex, apparently! I’m enjoying the show although I don’t really ‘identify’ at all.
LumpyPillows
I didn’t think the show was that bad, but the non-binary story line fell so short it was tragic. The Trill character, who could have been brilliant, was so uninteresting and when it started with the pronoun nonsense, I just lost it, the writing was so bad. In the future none of what happened would happen like that. Very un-Star Trek like plot line. It was just so heavy-handed, and ultimately very boring.
The Wilson Cruz/Anthony Rapp relationship was fine at first and then became melodrama. I found that difficult because I like Cruz as much as I dislike Rapp.
Michelle Yeoh was brilliant. I agree with that whole-heartedly. She can breath life into almost anything! I even liked the Sonequa Martin-Green angle, although even that seemed to lose its way as a story line.
As far as the name caller, KBP, above, there always has to be some easily triggered snowflake in the comment section.
FreddieW
@LumpyPillows
I share your opinion of the Cruz/Rapp storyline. There’s too much melodrama, period. The show became deliberately exclusive of its male audience after season 2, I think.
Strange New Worlds is a vast improvement.
LumpyPillows
Love Strange Worlds too!
abfab
Being Boring
I came across a cache of old photos
And invitations to teenage parties
“Dress in white” one said, with quotations
From someone’s wife, a famous writer
In the nineteen-twenties
When you’re young you find inspiration
In anyone who’s ever gone
And opened up a closing door
She said: “We were never feeling bored
‘Cause we were never being boring
We had too much time to find for ourselves
And we were never being boring
We dressed up and fought, then thought: “Make amends”
And we were never holding back or worried that
Time would come to an end”
When I went I left from the station
With a haversack and some trepidation
Someone said: “If you’re not careful
You’ll have nothing left and nothing to care for
In the nineteen-seventies”
But I sat back and looking forward
My shoes were high and I had scored
I’d bolted through a closing door
I would never find myself feeling bored
‘Cause we were never being boring
We had too much time to find for ourselves
And we were never being boring
We dressed up and fought, then thought: “Make amends”
And we were never holding back or worried that
Time would come to an end
We were always hoping that, looking back
You could always rely on a friend
Now I sit with different faces
In rented rooms and foreign places
All the people I was kissing
Some are here and some are missing
In the nineteen-nineties
I never dreamt that I would get to be
The creature that I always meant to be
But I thought in spite of dreams
You’d be sitting somewhere here with me
‘Cause we were never being boring
We had too much time to find for ourselves
And we were never being boring
We dressed up and fought, then thought: “Make amends”
And we were never holding back or worried that
Time would come to an end
We were always hoping that, looking back
You could always rely on a friend
And we were never being boring
We had too much time to find for ourselves
And we were never being boring
Christopher Lowe / Neil Tennant
Being Boring lyrics © Kobalt Music Publishing Ltd.
1990
PET SHOP BOYS
Kangol2
I’ve called for some of these things before on Queerty, so I’ll add that it would be great if filmmakers and TV series showrunners and writers really paid attention to these requests. I get the coming out stories/stories about teens/closeted gay men stories/tragic stories etc. and I also get the desire to represent trans and nonbinary people, but there’s a vast world of LGBTQ life, specifically gay male life, out there, that barely makes it on the screen.
abfab
With writers working again (thanks Fran Drescher and all strikers) Hollywood will hear your call. But they always seem to be at least 15 years behind what we are living, which is ”the good life”. I totally agree Kangol2.
My only wish is they leave the guns and the bombings and the car chases out.
Diplomat
Average looks don’t sell as indicated by the straight community. We’re not going to flip that. If someone wants average, there’s always Wal-Mart. HOT will always be the body type and or high charisma with an attractive face.
Stories are a completely different subject and very open for expansion.
LumpyPillows
I think a good example is Schitt’s Creek. Great main characters who happen to be gay.
Seth
Want ugly? Fat? Boring?
Just go outside.
I’ll never understand a yearning for mediocrity when we’re steeped in it in our daily lives. I want beauty, talent, and drama when I’m looking for entertainment.
Diplomat
Zactly
andrewl
Good point.. People want to be told about great things, great beauty, great ugliness, great sorrow, great happiness, great love, great hatred the list could go on. If you want day to day look in the mirror.
ralpo
And you assume that only “beautiful” people have talent and drama?
KissBananaPeels
You want something that you ARE NOT…gotcha, thanks!!!
Doug
I’m really over watching films about teen crushes. They all have the same plot: the young protagonist realizes he’s gay and is terrified of coming out, he develops a crush on another teen he thinks is straight, and eventually they realize they’re both gay and end up together. It’s become a complete stereotype. What I notice more and more is there are virtually no representations of older gay men in gay films.
ShaverC
This whole subject is very tiring. As far as gay people in regular movies, we’re only 10% of the population and I don’t need to be “represented” in every movie made in Hollywood. There is already a variation of different characters in specifically gay movies… there are old people, young people, attractive people, unattractive people. Just give good stories. I’m tired of the coming out stories and the sad-sack films where gay men (Love is Strange) don’t plan for retirement and end up couch surfing.
abfab
Couch surfing.
ralpo
And some older guys. We exist, have interesting lives and stories. You’d think we all disappear when we turn 40
KissBananaPeels
I am in my 50s and my mind, body and bank account would challenge anyone in their 20s…also let’s cut the BS about open relationships…
bachy
Straight or gay, most viewers seem to prefer an actor to be at least a little bit better looking than the real-life person they are portraying. But perhaps we don’t need as much by way of glitter and feathers and fishnets and 13-inch heels to be taken seriously.
nm4047
some of these ‘requests’ have been tried (bros come to mind) commercial failure, that’s what the producers and show makers focus on. Not a couple of old gay guys wanting to see themselves reflect on the screen. Youth is and always will be what makes the cut.
bachy
Youth and beauty is especially valued in the US market. Plus, now that everyone has an HDTV, the only people going to the cinema are young people on dates. Which is why there will be little else but superhero movies on offer for the foreseeable future.
abfab
”The only people going to the cinema are young people on dates”
bachy, really. You’re a bit off tonight.
S.anderson
Also need representation of non-queer gays, lesbians and bisexuals.
Because not everyone is on-board with this idea that we’re something other than normal, ordinary people, or cool with having a noxious label assigned to them against their wishes.
Fight me if you think some self-appointed queer spox are entitled to agency over people who do not wish to be counted among their loyal fans.
abfab
You are very ordinary.
still_onthemark
Maybe a biopic of J. Edgar Hoover and Clyde Tolson would appeal to you?
LumpyPillows
The whole queer thing is very juvenile – people trying to find themselves teenage angst. It is real, but it is transitory for most people. In time past the niche in movies was filled with the loner, stoner and goth stereotypes, now it’s the queer kid with the green hair and a rebel pronoun. Colorful, but still a rebel stereotype. Most people will outgrow it. I mean, besides Elvira, who knows an adult goth who isn’t on food stamps? It does seem to be an easy crutch to use to make an otherwise boring script more edgy.
KissBananaPeels
BLACK GAY MEN with BLACK GAY MEN
ASIAN GAY MEN with ASIAN GAY MEN
HISPANIC GAY MEN with HISPANIC GAY MEN
the white gaze is REALLY tiring….
Kangol2
Well, there’s a small but vibrant studio, Signal23TV (some of their films and series are available on Tubi) addressing Black gay/queer/bi stories, and it’s a Black gaze. There are related small studios, directors, etc. working on parallel lines. I think most are based in and around Atlanta. One story SignalTV produced even involved a Black American falling in love with a South African Black guy. The main issue is that the studio’s funding probably is an iota of what Hollywood has available, so there’s a quality differential. But it’s interesting to see what’s possible outside of the standard POV.
LumpyPillows
No idea where you came from, KBP, but you can go back.
KissBananaPeels
More instance of HIV men in a relationship and IT is NOT a problem it is JUST something that there…
LumpyPillows
Sounds like an after school special – which has a purpose. I’m assuming you meant HIV positive people taking medication to protect their health and not infect others. This is something that should be discussed more but is difficult to just mention and not make it a bigger point.
The goal, of course, is to eradicate HIV, and not normalize the spread of the disease.
gjg64
I’ve said it before Ian and Mickey on Shameless were the best gay couple ever on TV. Realistic evolution of their relationship.
KissBananaPeels
AGREED….
LumpyPillows
IT was real and it was sexy.
LegionKeign
“…lower-class…” That child has issues.
I would love to see a show like the old Roseanne show. Just ordinary GLBTQ+ folks living their lives.