Dating apps have toyed with the idea of including HIV filters allowing users to block guys based on their reported HIV status for a while now, and to a mixed responses. Most notably is Grindr, which jumped on the bandwagon back in July, resulting in pretty widespread outcry. Many felt the purposed filter only served to further stigmatize HIV/AIDS and acted as a form of “digital quarantine.” But according to blogger Alex Garner, the issue extends beyond just that.
In a new post titled Undetectable: Fear, Filters And Grindr, Garner argues that it’s not just the existence of an HIV filter that is the problem but, he writes, “why men feel the need to use such a filter in the first place.”
Related: Coming Soon: An HIV Filter On Grindr???
“Filtering is simply an act of ignorance and fear,” he says. “Avoiding someone who knows that they are HIV-positive is a bad strategy for staying negative. The science is overwhelmingly clear: if someone is undetectable, meaning the amount of virus in the blood is so low it can’t be detected, it’s virtually impossible for the virus to be transmitted.”
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He then adds that, thanks to modern medicine, there are many ways a person can protect themselves from HIV, including PrEP, PEP and, oh yeah, good, old-fashioned condoms.
Garner also points out another pretty glaring problem with HIV filters: They rely on the honor system.
“It’s bad science and simply doesn’t work to eschew poz guys while taking risk with guys who might think they are negative,” he says. “Someone may believe they are HIV-negative but actually be undiagnosed as HIV-positive and have a very high viral load.”
Related: Ten Things HIV-Positive Guys Want Negative Guys To Know
Garner thinks part of the problem is that many people don’t fully understand “undetectable” means. The Prevention Access Campaign defines is as such:
A person living with HIV on antiretroviral therapy (ART) with an undetectable HIV viral load in their blood for at least six months has a negligible risk of transmitting HIV to a sexual partner. Negligible means: so small as to not be worth considering; insignificant. Therefore, when describing the risk of HIV transmission HIV experts have said: “not infectious”, “virtually zero risk” and “cannot transmit the virus.”
“There have been tremendous advancements in HIV science in the past few years but much of it hasn’t been successfully conveyed to the general public,” Garner writes. “Fear and ignorance about HIV and undetectability stretches to all corners of the internet.”
Related: STUDY: Undetectable Guys Do Not Transmit HIV To Negative Sex Partners
So what can be done about this? Turns out, the answer is pretty darn simple.
“Facts are the best remedy for ignorance,” Garner says. “Our community has done a relatively good job of educating people about the facts of PrEP. Almost every major HIV organization has invested in PrEP education efforts for various communities vulnerable to HIV. We should be able to invest the same community education efforts around what it means to be undetectable.”
Garner concludes by saying that each of us has a choice.
“We can avoid the facts or we can choose to educate ourselves about the latest science,” he writes. “We can filter poz guys or we can engage in meaningful conversations with one another about HIV. We can create more and more barriers to keep us apart or we can choose to bring people together to improve our health and strengthen our community.”
Related: Honest Confessions From Men With HIV
Masc Pride
I don’t get why sites/bloggers report this like it’s a new thing. We’ve always been able to filter profiles by things as heavy as HIV status to things as trivial as zodiac sign. This community is absolutely OBSESSED with trying to dictate what other guys do on dating apps. If a guy has set a filter that eliminates you, he wasn’t the guy for you. Isn’t it better to just move on and find someone that is for you instead of incessantly complaining about guys that aren’t for you?
Garner also needs to learn that passive-aggressively insulting people won’t get them to see things his way. 99 percent of gay bloggers and self-proclaimed activists don’t know how to talk to people (particularly other GLB people) in a way that will effectively encourage understanding.
Masc Pride
…and understanding doesn’t automatically mean full agreement.
PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
HIV+; goodsex; newspeak; four legs = GOOD
HIV- ; sexcrime; oldspeak; two legs = UNGOOD
— thinkpol
Heywood Jablowme
I understand, BUT it works the other way too.
As a POZ guy I’d just as soon stick to dating other undetectable poz guys. It’s just easier and I get bored with endlessly educating the ignorant (temporarily) HIV-neg guys out there. Or those who probably are not neg at all but seem to think that as long as they never get tested they’re neg.
I am content to leave the job of educating such silliness to the social workers who get paid to do it.
Also, I have some pride so I get tired of this “Date us!” “Date us!” “Please date us!” whining from other poz people with low self-esteem, as exhibited here.
The facts in this article are correct, but it works the other way too.
frankcar1965
My god, you said it. Why do so many poz guys have the need to screw the negs? Yep, low self esteem just because they’re poz, like that makes you trash. It goes hand in hand with being gay and hating yourself .
keith_newton
Avoiding a person because they are HIV positive is a choice but it’s a bigoted choice I understand that many people prefer to have sex without using protection because they find it more enjoyable and I can’t criticise anybody for wanting to do that because having sex naturally it’s perfectly normal. Having a filter on a website that blocks people who have reported the HIV status is wrong it’s fundamentally wrong. Did remind me of the yellow patches that the Jews were forced to wear in Germany the fact that somebody has been honest enough to share the HIV status should show what an honourable person they are and I would prefer to know somebody who has honest about their HIV status and somebody who did it personally I think Gay Menace shallow enough individuals as it is without giving them another option to alienate somebody who has a condition that the potential effects muscle I don’t like the idea of it and I think it would be a mistake for grindr to go down this route.
You should be looking to stop discrimination and not encourage it what is shallow fickle Society We Have Become
frankcar1965
Nobody is talking “blocking” just a filter. I only want poz guys so I want filter. Don’t get mad because I’m not begging you to have sex with me, a poz guy. There are many poz guys out there and many more getting added each day, so more for me.
PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
@keith_newton: “Avoiding a person because they are HIV positive is a choice but it’s a bigoted choice”
I agree.
However, not wanting to have sex with them is not the same thing at all.
JerseyMike
When you have sex with a random stranger anything could happen.. As long as society continues to put a stigma on HIV, People will continue to be less honest about statues. Why would someone tell you the truth, when you are going to be mistreated. Lying about statues isn’t right but people mistreating or ostracized someone because it isn’t right either. These apps are making this worst. We have to do better
Masc Pride
@keith_newton: Whom one CHOOSES to have sex with is never “a bigoted choice”. Your argument is like saying gay men “discriminate” against women. We’re all free to make our own choices and – contrary to popular gay belief – mere attraction doesn’t mean you’re entitled to another guy’s body. General avoidance can reasonably be considered discriminatory, but sex is something entirely different. If a gay man prefers not to have sex with a woman, this doesn’t make him a bigot. If said gay man refuses to even speak to women because they are women, that is bigoted.
Aromaeus
So filtering by race is a-ok but by status was met with outcry? I guess because it affected white people too lol. Also towleroad shared a story that about PrEP not being used or even known about by the groups with the highest risk of seroconverting which also happen to be racial minorities but who gives a flying f about them right? /snark
ChrisK
@Aromaeus: I swear some of you would be able to find racism under a rock.
Paco
I have had many poz guys tell me they prefer to only date other poz guys. Less complicated seemed to be the reason. So I can see such a filter helping them more easily connect with others like themselves without having to deal with the baggage of their status with someone that is most likely uneducated and not very understanding.
@Masc Pride: The way some queers talk, we will all be straight but sexually fluid. They are on a mission to stamp out all labels except straight. So the day is probably coming where refusal of sex with women will be considered bigoted and abnormal. oh wait…
ChrisK
@Masc Pride: Agreed but how about instead of putting a filter on to screen out hiv people you put one on to screen out safe sex people. Lets face it. Most that want to screen out the hiv people are the same ones that just want to bareback with zero protection. People are idiots but that’s the reality of it. Most that protect themselves just don’t care.
Franklin
@ChrisK: I don’t think it was necessarily pointing out racism. More so, it was just an attempt to point out the hypocrisy exhibited by some who would find no issue filtering out someone by a quality like race, yet would call someone ignorant who discounted them because of their status. IMO HIV status should not a deal breaker. However, I’m sure it can be very jarring for someone accustomed to having few limitation in terms of friendship, sex, and dating, to suddenly have to face the possibility of being constrained by a single quality they cannot change, despite all their other positive attributes.
ChrisK
@Franklin: We’re all constrained by something we can’t change so I’m not following you. Race and hiv aren’t the only things out there you know.
Brian
Who does Alex Garner think he is? In the sexual market place, people are entitled to filter out those who have STD’s.
And why should somebody take PrEP? PrEP is a chemical. I don’t wish to add a chemical to my body.
Alex Garner is misguided.
frankcar1965
So don’t some do and you do not have to have sex with them.
tardis
The numbers regarding HIV transmission is pretty alarming. HIV is a serious thing for the gay community. Ignorance or not, some people who are negative want to stay negative.
Prinny
@Brian: I can’t believe I’m saying this. But you are right o.O
PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
HIV is given some weird sacred and heroic status the likes of syphilis or gonorrhoea don’t get — yes to even dare to say such a thing sounds almost like a blasphemy doesn’t it. Such is the work that has been done us by certain well paid activists.
PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
*done on us
Franklin
@ChrisK: You’re right we’re all constrained at least a little by something we can’t change, however, for a significant portion of us, that something, (I.e. race and HIV status) seems to matter a lot more than other qualities you might be thinking about. Whether or not you care to admit it, if you are fit, young, and white, with very few exceptions, you probably have little to no problem dating or at the very least hooking up with whomever you choose in most cities across America. Additionally, you can do this without limiting themselves to pursuing only one certain type of guy. What other qualities that you can’t change are you are talking about? Height? While it’s true that you might have issues meeting people if you have a very rare condition like dwarfism, I’m willing to bet that even a 5’4″ young white guy gets significantly more hits on their Grindr profile in most American cities, than say a 6’2″ tall Asian guy. The same goes for when you talk about things like facial attractiveness, baldness, etc. So I can understand how difficult it might be to go from having had at one time significantly wider pool of guys to choose from sexually and dating wise, to suddenly having dealing with a potentially more limited pool of men. This is probably especially annoying when you know this is most likely based on something about you that doesn’t change who are, just how people perceive you.
NateOcean
I find it hypocritical that several HIV+ men will lecture others about the extreme unlikelihood of getting HIV from the “undetectable” crowd. After all, they are such experts on HIV avoidance.
Chris
No one has any right to tell me who I should or should not date. And if I wish to know someone’s HIV/STI status before going out or doing anything playful with that person, it is my choice to ask for that information. If dating-site filters provide that information, regardless how imperfect they are, I have some information — about that person’s honesty, if nothing else.
This blogger makes all sorts of assumptions about what I will do with information that I may obtain through a filter. Even if it is flawed or overly simplistic, it can jump start a larger conversation about safe sex practices.
The blogger’s assumptions are simply wrong. I want to know so that I can provide this thing called “informed consent.” Absent my obtaining truthful information at some point in this process, my consent cannot be informed and whatever-the-other-man-does is rape, pure and simple.
GoFuckYourself
Thank you for trying to shame everybody in to believing what you do, however you’re wrong. Hiding very, VERY relevant information from others that could forever change the course of their lives and thinking that is ok is not only ignorant, but well….quite frankly you’re a complete asshole for believing that you get to take away the choice from everybody else. I know it’s the cool thing to do in 2016 to say “If you believe this than you’re” and insert some sort of -ism or -phobic to try and get people to buy in to your bullshit out of fear of public shame but here’s the truth. You’ve had you’re fun being a whiny little bitch who can’t take a little bit of reality without breaking down in to a puddle of complete baby shit but the rest of the world is getting tired of it. Nobody except your small circle of “friends” in your echo chamber…sorry…safe space….agree with you and even then, they don’t. They just want to feel like they are standing up for a cause worth fighting for.
HIV filters on dating websites? That’s about as far away from a cause worth fighting for as you can get.
How about this. Stop pretending like less information = cure for ignorance. It isn’t. Never has been, never will be. And how about this, why don’t you try worrying about yourself instead of worrying about what you think is wrong with everybody else.
Heywood Jablowme
@GoFuckYourself: “Hiding very, VERY relevant information from others that could forever change the course of their lives and thinking that is ok is not only ignorant, but well…”
You must be referring to the guys who say they’re HIV negative when they haven’t been tested in years, or never? Or the ones who imply they’re HIV negative by saying nothing about it? (since they have no idea anyway). Yeah, guys like that are dangerous!
ChrisK
@Heywood Jablowme: That’s actually the way Gofuckyourself likes it. A don’t ask and don’t you dare tell me or I’ll block you. Yup. Totally a good way to only hear what you want to hear.
No one should hide any information. However, my golden rule is everyone’s hiv positive. Anyone I see taking lots of risks I assume already is. Only idiots think a website filter is a useful tool.
surreal33
I cannot believe what I am reading. I am astonished that more than few men (based on the comments) have the unmitigated gall to push a narrative that excluding HIV-positive men is discriminatory??? As it is you take your life into yours hands every time you meet a trick online. Now in order to be politically correct, you should include HIV-positive men among your random sex partners? Also, the subtle musings that if one is HIV-positive but undetectable the risk is so low you don’t have to inform sex partners of being HIV-positive? This is by far the most repugnant, selfish, amoral, display of “I have to get off to hell who gets hurt in the process”. The realization of such a total lack of respect for yourself and your sexual partners exists is truly sad and dangerous. Sidebar, if you want to minimize the risk please visit MATELY.COM where all men prescreen for STDs before they can post on the site.
frankcar1965
What a mess you are, you think that works? Surely not, I mean, that is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. Are people being truthful? How are going about giving out these records? Are they accurate? My god, are people really believing a site like that? That is dangerous.
Alistair Wiseman
@GoFuckYourself:
Bingo! We have a winner.
junk4sts
This topic keeps popping up in various forms. In reality, if you use hook-up apps you are putting you life into a strangers hands, so PROTECT YOURSELF. Assume everyone lies online, that means the HIV- guys are probably HIV+ and the HIV+ guys who say they are “Undetectable” are probably very extremely detectable.
Once this reality sets in you will see a clearer path to protecting yourself.
At best it’s naive to believe ANYTHING you read in a profile on a hookup app, think about it, you have no way to actually know for sure what anybody’s HIV status is, a guy isn’t undectable just because he tells you he’s undetectable, so don’t be stupid, there proven ways to protect yourself from HIV and other STD’s, but “he told me he was HIV-” is not one of them. Don’t think with your “little head” Get Tested and know your status, and don’t be reckless with your life and health.
junk4sts
As for the blogger’s stance, which I realize I didn’t address, He seems to assume that HIV+ undetectable guys are the only ones who tell the truth. Never Ever would a guy lie about being “Undetectable” and how would you know for sure no matter what he says?
If there are going to be filters then why not have an HIV status filter? Like someone else said, even if you are HIV+ and undetectable, that says something about your sexual history and the risks you were willing to take in the past.
I tend to agree with others who have said two things:
1. If we are going to filter on race, I don’t see why we can’t filter on HIV status.
2. Just because I understand where this blogger is coming from, doesn’t mean I agree with him or even think his point of view is valid.
My previous point still stands, Don’t be stupid and reckless with your health and life, Know your status and reguardless of that status, protect yourself.
ErikO
@NateOcean: That’s very true a lot of HIV+ men will do this or claim that it’s perfectly fine for them to sero-sort or only get with other HIV+ men who they have raw/bareback sex with and transmit other strains of HIV to or get infected with other strains; but it’s somehow wrong in their minds if someone that’s HIV neg does not want to have sex with someone that’s HIV+.
frankcar1965
You are so full of it, every poz most probably has multiple strains, you do not know what you’re talking about. Neither is “superinfection” a risk either since they do not know if it is even possible, it was only a theory after all and has not been proven. Do not confuse it with resistance either, that is another thing all together. Do not spew information that you have no knowledge of.
From Dr. Joel Gallant who knows way more than you do, I suggest reading his forum: http://hivforum.tumblr.com/
Anonymous Asked
QuestionMy husband and I have been having unprotected sex and we both are HIV positive. We both were diagnosed at the same time and we’re on the same mess. A friend of mine said that we should stop having unprotected sex because we may become super infectious and I’ll be hard to a drug that will keep our viral load down. We’re both undetectable too. What are your thoughts about the situation? How much is the truth? Answer
Your friend means well, but his worries are exaggerated. First, both of you have undetectable viral loads. As long as they remain that way, neither of you is going to transmit HIV to the other. Second, you may be infected with the same virus. Third, HIV superinfection is a pretty uncommon event.
ErikO
I don’t use these apps/sites, and given the large number of men and women who are HIV+ but lie about it or don’t know it, I probably have had safer sex with someone who is HIV+; but I was not infected as there’s such a thing as knowing how to have safer sex and having it.
Brian
There is discrimination based on prejudice and there is discrimination based on knowledge. If I know that somebody has an STD, I reserve the right to privately discriminate against them on the basis of that knowledge. In fact, I should have the right to discriminate against another person in relation to anything that applies to my private well-being, whether it’s based on prejudice or knowledge.
The right to privately discriminate is very important.
Now, if I said that nobody with an STD could use the public rest-room, that’s another thing altogether. Firstly, it would be unreasonable to discriminate against another person in this way. Secondly, it’s a public amenity, and I should have no right to discriminate against the person.
Heywood Jablowme
@junk4sts: Well… it’s unlikely that anyone would:
(a) lie about being undetectable, while at the same time
(b) tell the truth about being HIV+ in the first place!
Someone like that would be much more likely to just lie and claim to be HIV-negative.
The rest of your points are valid. Everyone “filters” based on what they read in the profiles, whether or not the app has an easy filter button for [whatever].
The amount of deliberate LYING may actually be pretty low. But yeah you can never just assume that anyone is telling the truth, or even KNOWS the truth.
removes kebabs
People who willingly pass on HIV via deception and selfishness are sociopaths and should be treated as harshly as possible within the confines of our legal system.
If a HIV positive individual infects an unknowing individual and through discovery learns of being infected the individual who infected them should be charged with attempted murder or manslaughter.
There is no excuse for spreading this disease when it requires doing nothing more than being able to think about more than yourself and the needs that made you sick in the first place.
frankcar1965
Please pray tel, how do we know that person was infected by that other person? I guess we should just take their word for it since NO ONE ever lies I suppose. Poz people are just one bad relationship away from jail or prison because of supposedly neg people. I tell all poz to not have sex, even with consent, with “negs” who are just waiting to harm them.
ChrisK
@removes kebabs: ..or maybe we just use the big head and think for ourselves. There is no such thing as a victimizer or victim unless rape was involved.
junk4sts
@Heywood Jablowme: I’d like to think you were right about the undetectable lie, but we are talking about anonymous sex and if you research how far men will go for sex you start to realize that there is nothing some guy won’t do to have sex. People tend to minimize the truth especially when the whole truth would get in the way of what they want. It seems strange but IMHO admitting he is HIV+ in his hookup profile is a truth and he feels good about being honest, but then he adds undetectable to “minimize” the risk to others. I know it’s pessimistic to think so little of people, but this is about making life changing decisions, and People can be very selfish.
Also, Think about how hookup apps work, you really only write your profile once, and many guys never re-write or update that profile so even if a guy was undetectable when he wrote his profile in March, doesn’t mean he’s still undetectable in September.
My point isn’t to beat this to death, but just to get people to understand that you cannot and should not trust unverifiable statements made in hookup apps, (or made during any sexual encounter) So it’s up to each of us to protect our lives and our health, if you use hookup apps (and I’m not saying you shouldn’t) do so understanding the risks you put yourself in and do everything you can to minimize those risks – don’t count on the other person to care about your health and well being.
There is a push in the gay community to minimize or downplay HIV, don’t fall for it, HIV is still a very serious and potentially life threatening infection. Yes there are new medications to treat and to help prevent the spread, but it’s still best to protect yourself from getting infected in the first place.
frankcar1965
Once a person says he is poz then that is all that is required. If you think he is minimizing it then that is YOUR problem since it is medically true. If you do not want to have sex with him then don’t, it’s that simple.
JerseyMike
Look at any gay hookup site and you will find very few HIV positive people. Somebody is lying!! Its our job to filter out people we are going fu ck not the hookup site. We need to stop being so stu pid when we know people are lying about their status. just because someone tells you they are negative doesn’t make it true. If you are going to hook up with a total stranger its just as much your fault if you catch something. Its the people who don’t know their status infecting people. We all know the risk and go forward anyway. When you put your trust in what a total stranger says, whose fault is that. Its our job to protect ourselves not a stranger. Most of us have sleep with HIV positive people and don’t know it. wrap it up, wrap it up, wrap it up..
Heywood Jablowme
@junk4sts: I get what you’re saying, except now you’ve changed your story completely from the wildly extreme stuff in your first comment: “Assume everyone lies online, that… the HIV+ guys who say they are “Undetectable” are probably very extremely detectable.”
“Probably”? – no, there’s no reason to assume that. Almost everyone who tests HIV+, as long as he gets properly treated for it, will become undetectable within a few months and remain so. They tend not to bounce in and out of undetectability like ping-pong balls (as you seem to fear). If someone says he’s poz & undetectable, he’s probably poz & undetectable. If he wanted to lie he’d just say he’s negative.
But that’s a completely different situation from a guy who tested negative 6 months ago, and is actually telling the truth about that… but in 6 months he’s barebacked 25 times and got infected and has a viral load of 300 trillion or so. THAT’S the guy you really need to worry about!
Anyway – nobody should bareback with a guy they just met.
Heywood Jablowme
@JerseyMike: Great points!
Danny279
You really have to be insane to think that these hookup apps are compatible with good health. The CDC released its latest surveillance statistics for a variety of STIs and once again, “men who have sex with men” are overwhelmingly responsible for epidemic levels of syphilis and gonorrhea, despite being only a small minority within the adult population. Hookup apps have been linked to similar outbreaks in Europe. And HIV transmission is heavily correlated with syphilis transmission. Why in god’s name can’t people see that this kind of routine promiscuity is an invitation to bad health and shortened life? Fortunately, these STI epidemics are being fueled by a shrinking minority of gay and bi men. Increasingly, gay/bi men are walking away from that scene.
dean089
So if I’m not interested in being physically intimate with someone who has a sexually transmitted disease — and let’s get real, no one is on Grindr looking for a platonic coffee buddy — that makes me a bigot? Does that also apply to syphilis, herpes, chlamydia, etc., or are we going with this ‘AIDS Is Sacred’ crap that I’ve been hearing for 30+ years?
junk4sts
@Heywood Jablowme: Does it really matter why the statements in a hookup profile are inaccruate? Of course not. No matter how you look at it, undetectable is not a state that an HIV+ person will stay in if they don’t continue to take their medication: Here’s a direct quote from the Aids.gov website about viral load:
“Having an undetectable viral load greatly lowers your chance of transmitting the virus to your sexual and drug-using partners who are HIV-negative. However, even when your viral load is undetectable, HIV can still exist in semen, vaginal and rectal fluids, breast milk, and other parts of your body. For this reason, you should continue to take steps to prevent HIV transmission. For example:
HIV may still be found in your genital fluids (semen or vaginal fluids). The viral load test only measures the amount of HIV in your blood. Although ART also lowers viral load in genital fluids, HIV can sometimes be present in your genital fluids even when it is undetectable in your blood.
Your viral load may go up between tests. When this happens, you may be more likely to transmit HIV to your partner(s). Your viral load may go up without you knowing it because you may not feel any different.
Sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) can increase your viral load in your genital fluids. This means that if you are living with HIV and also have an STD, you may be able to transmit HIV to your partner(s) even if your viral load is undetectable.
Researchers are studying how much you can lower your chances of transmitting HIV when your viral load is undetectable. One large multinational study indicates that ART that consistently suppresses HIV is highly effective at preventing sexual transmission of the virus in heterosexual couples where one person is HIV-infected and the other is not. In fact, that study found that ARTreduces the risk of heterosexual HIV transmission by 93% or more if viral suppression is achieved and maintained. Researchers did not observe any HIV transmission during this study when the HIV-infected partner’s virus was stably suppressed by ART. (Read more about these NIH-supported study findings released in the summer of 2015.)”
Here is a short statement about Viral load testing from the same site:
“Your HIV care provider will order a viral load test at your first visit to determine your viral load. A viral load test will:
Show how well your HIV treatment is controlling the virus, and
Provide health information on your health status.
After that, you should have a viral load test every 3 to 6 months before you start taking a new HIV medicine, and 2 to 8 weeks after starting or changing HIV medicines until your viral load is suppressed. For more information, see the HIV treatment guidelines regarding laboratory testing.”
Finally, here is what it says about what “Viral Load” means:
“A viral load test is a lab test that measures the number of HIV virus particles in a milliliter of your blood. These particles are called “copies.”
A viral load test helps provide information on your health status and how well antiretroviral therapy (ART – treatment with HIV medicines) is controlling the virus.
ART involves taking a combination of HIV medicines (called an HIV regimen) every day. ART can’t cure HIV, but it can help you live a longer, healthier life and reduce your risk of HIV transmission.
The goal of ART is to move your viral load down, ideally to undetectable levels. In general, your viral load will be declared “undetectable” if it is under 40 to 75 copies in a sample of your blood. The exact number depends on the lab that analyzes your test.
Having an “undetectable” viral load doesn’t mean that the virus is completely gone from your body, just that it is below what a lab test can find. You still have HIV and need to stay on ART to remain healthy.”
It looks like a lot of the research on infecting others with an undetectable viral load was done on hetrosexual people.
Of course this is only one source of information, but it highlights a couple of points, Staying undetectable requires that the HIV+ person stay on their medication. It’s still possible to infect someone when a person is HIV+ and “Undectable”. Viral Loads may go up between tests, and finally if you have other STD’s your viral load may go up in your genital fluids. Being HIV+ and Undetectable is not a magic silver bullet and HIV+ Undetectable indivduals can infect others.
I am Very conservative on this topic, my stance hasn’t changed, a lie is a lie no matter if it’s intentional or accidental. The blogger made the point of calling out HIV- saying many don’t actually know their HIV status, and some how elevating HIV+ Undetectable people as a “safer” alternative, my point is that as a hookup site user, both HIV- and HIV+ Undetectable may not accurately know how likely they are to infect someone else, has a potential hookup mate, I don’t know if the HIV+ Undetectable guy is really undetectable the night we hookup, so assuming everyone is lying means that I take the necessary precautions no matter what his profile says. We don’t have to agree on how honest guys profiles are, but I think we can agree that just blindly trusting what a guy says in his profile is naive and unnecessarily risky.
Full disclosure, I’ve had a profile on both Grindr and Scruff, but never could bring myself to actually hookup with anyone on either site, I did meet a guy from scruff at a local coffee shop and we talked for quite a while, his profile didn’t mention his HIV status, and as we talked about things, I felt there was something “off” about him, The converstation included some discussion about STD’s and HIV status and he was very non-commital on those topics, but as it turns out he didn’t like my stance and eventually unloaded on me and admitted that he was HIV+ and undetectable. We talked on the phone later that night and I said I just didn’t feel good about doing anything with him, he was mad at me, but I told him that he should have been honest up front, and that there are people out there who would be comfortable with his situation, but that I wasn’t. I thanked him for being honest with me. We never spoke again, and I deleted my profile and account shortly after that.
We each have to make these decisions for ourselves, I take into account human nature and facts and advise from organizations like the CDC and come up with a course of action that I’m comfortable with. For me it’s “assume everyone has something I don’t want to catch and act accordingly”. For many this stance is just too restrictive and limiting, I get it.
frankcar1965
Good info, and this means…. do not have sex with anyone you don’t want to!!!! And use some type of preventative, just don’t bitch when you don’t and get HIV.
joe
if you simply believe someone is on prep because they told you that you they are, you are an idiot, its no different than someone telling you they are neg and simply believing that. prep is to be used 100% of the time while USING CONDOMS. the prep instructions are VERY CLEAR >> USE CONDOMS WITH PREP. its amazing that most everyone i know on prep will go to great lenghts to tell me how ignorant i am for not wanting to have sex with a poz guy, how stupid i am not to believe the science, how dumb i am not to be up to date with this stuff…..but then…they seem to leave out the part about using condoms while on prep…that part of the science they seem to forget, that part of being up to date is forgotten, nor is it considered ignorant to simply forget about the condom part…personally i got tired of being terrified when a condom broke, finding out another guy lied to me about status even though i always used condoms shit can happen, all that time in a room waiting for test results..i just stopped although its sucks i aint got nothing to worry about anymore
frankcar1965
I’m Poz and I want a filter! I don’t want to have sex with neg guys so a filter would good for me. I don’t want to play the games that so called neg guys play like “sero-sorting”, the most stupid practice if there ever was one. Get real, are you really going to have sex without condom just because some stranger says he’s neg? You should use a condom or even PreP always, but it seems nobody does, they just “sero-sort” then bitch when they become poz. Really smart.`1