Good Riddance to James Dobson


DON’T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU — It’s been six years in the making since he left his post as president and CEO, and now he’s gone: World famous homophobe and preacher of hate James Dobson, 72, is leaving Focus on the Family, the conservative Christian group that promotes hatred and bigotry toward your fellow man. He founded FOF in 1977 and most recently held the title of chairman, while armed with a popular radio program and endless barrage of press releases and media-ready soundbites he helped steer conservative thought for years. But don’t get too excited. Dobson will remain hosting FOF’s radio show and “speak out on moral issues,” which means his brand of divisiveness isn’t going anywhere.

As Washington Monthly‘s Steve Benen writes, “Few modern figures on the political scene hate quite as many people, with quite as much intensity, as James Dobson. Gays, minority faiths, the First Amendment, Girl Scouts, SpongeBob Squarepants … if you don’t think, act, or believe as Dobson does, you’re an enemy. (One of my personal favorites is when Dobson insisted that gay marriage ‘will destroy the Earth.’ He wasn’t kidding.)”

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  • Jeremy/G-A-Y

    Focus on the Family, not AFA.

  • Sebbe

    Damn, when I saw the headline I thought he finally died, I told myself I could leave work now and go get a drink. Oh well, guess I deserve a drink now anyways since he is still lurking around.

  • Fr. Bernie

    How sad it is that someone who promotes God, promotes hate in God’s name. He will have a lot to account for when hw meets our Creator! Peace & LOve, Fr. Bernie,OSJB

  • Larry Linn

    So he resigned, but he will still have infleunce. Will the FOF now give up their tax exempt status? Will Dobson continue to be a political activist behind the tax exempt status of FOF? Doe he understand the commandment the thou “shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.”

  • getreal

    I have never understood how adults in loving relationships could possibly be a threat to families. It is interesting that these people who are so “family” obsessed do everything they can to prevent, disrupt, and break-up gay families.

  • dfrw

    When I first read the headline, I thought Dobson had died. Then I read the article….

  • Chloe

    Donald Wildmon and Dobson are fairly interchangable, but for the record the AFA (American Family Association) is Wildmon, The FOF (Focus on the Family )is Dobson.

    The rest is correct, Good Riddance.

  • KJ

    I don’t think it’s hate so much as fear born out of ignorance and religious dogma, which, yes, looks pretty much like hate.

    I remember my church viewing some videos FOF produced, back in the early 80s, I guess, when I was still a deeply closeted Evangelical boy. When the topic of homosexuality came up, I listened intently, but ended up very disappointed. I didn’t see a hateful man, but one who had no idea what he was talking about, as nothing he had to say had anything to do with me (i.e., his “explanation” for same-gendered sexual attraction, which was not true of me and my family in the least).

    I always wished that someone would charge him with malpractice so that he’d lose his psychology license, but I suppose he has not been providing clinical services for a very long time.

  • Tim in SF

    Hate? Ignorance? You’re giving him too much credit.

    We gays are the cash cow that brings in donations by the metric ton. Nothing stirs up the base like the idea of us doing whatever it is they think we do. Nothing. Dobson slouched to the gay-hate well so often over these many years, bringing in so much money that I feared that well would never run dry. I think it’s starting to. The next generation just doesn’t have the hate in them that their parents do.

    Hope for the future. If global warming doesn’t kill us all, that is. Meh.

  • getreal

    @Tim in SF: I agree people in the south raised a lot of money to combat the civil rights movement too.

  • Bill Perdue

    They’ll be lining up like pigs at the trough to replace him.

    There’s never a shortage opportunist hustlers and sky pilots ( ) trying to make a killing off someone’s back.

    People like Dobson are as much our enemies as those as who say ‘gawwds in the mix.’ Just not as powerful.

  • greg

    @Fr. Bernie: I ask you these two questions: is there anything that God “hates”, detests, has contempt for, will not tolerate, etc. ? If yes, should we approve of those things he hates or should we disapprove?

    I ask in seriousness and hope you give it some thought before answering.

  • getreal

    @Fr. Bernie: Oh baby you are right all sanctimonious hate mongers are going to be so surprised.

    @greg: We were all made in God’s image so he doesn’t HATE any person be they straight or gay. That is a fundamentalist lie that gay people are just accepting as truth it’s not. His son said a lot but he never said one thing about homosexuality being wrong. If it was I feel sure he would have mentioned it in his 33 YEARS on the planet.

  • JJ

    Reading this article and these comments proves that gays are the true people of intolerlance. You are all hypocrites. Christianity was the major force in creating the tolerant United States of America. Christians in the military prevented evil empires like Germany’s Third Reich, Japan, Russia, and radical Islam from taking over where they would have been very intolerant of gays and Christians. You have Christians to thank for all of this. Quit being so cruel and intolerant.

  • Sebbe

    @JJ – It wasn’t “Christianity” that prevent though things, its a little thing I like to call ethics.

    Religion, least of which “Christianity” does not hold a monopoly on ethics.

  • First

    Repent! John the baptist can preaching repent to all men! Why because the kingdom of God is at hand. Jesus said you must be born again to see the Kingdom of God.
    Love covers a multitude of sins. God loves you but you must repent; agree with God that sin is wrong. Trust Jesus as your savior today.

  • Sebbe

    Oh gawddddd, the born agains cometh, the worst kind, even the Catholics can’t stand THEM. LOL

    If all us sinful unrepeated fags are going to “hell”, sign me up.

  • Peter


    Better go back and read your history books again. This country was built and its constitution was written by people who had left countries ruled by christian kings or rulers following catholic and other faiths of intolerance. Read about the crusades or the Spanish Inquisition which lasted for 450 years. Both were about “christians” killing people for their beliefs.

  • Peter


    PS: KILLING THEM; not just being intolerant.

  • getreal

    @JJ: If you are a christian you should try to be tolerant of people’s beliefs even if they are being intolerant of yours. Turn the other cheek. Treating others with respect is the best PR for christianity. Are SOME people on this site hateful and cruel to christians? Yes. But to posts that a whole group of people is intolerant or hypocritical because of the comments of few is discriminatory and un-christian like.If you really are a christian you have a responsiblity to treat all God’s children with respect. It is not a license to point fingers and judge.

  • Stef


    Wasn’t Hitler a “Christian”? He certainly wasn’t Catholic or Jewish.

    And I’m pretty sure there were a ton of non-Christians who fought in World War I and World War II. In fact, I know quite a few (some who have passed). It wasn’t their “Christian beliefs” that led them to join the war. Nor was it their “Christian” beliefs at the time, because I don’t think they were even very aware of what was happening to the European Jews. It was their ethical morals, which, as someone already stated on here, more often than not has zero to do with religion, especially Christianity.

    I have ethics and I am a good person not because I was baptized. I gave up on religion when I was 16 and good LORD am I happy I did so. Talk about freedom? Being able to believe how I think is appropriate? Having faith I MYSELF truly believe in and am not TOLD to believe in? Not having to hate others because my pastor or priest says so? It’s quite liberating, you should try it.

    And I’m also pretty sure if you look back over the course of segregation, it was the Christian south that most stongly supported keeping African Americans as second class citizens. Ever watch Mississippi Burning? They even killed the Jew. Real tolerant of them, non? Those southern baptists TRULY had a very important role to play in the national process of integration and equality, right?

    Look at most of the national hate groups, particularly the white nationalists groups. They all claim to be attempting to regain this country (The US) for Christ. They hate blacks, hate Jews, hate Catholics, hate atheists, hate gays, hate immigrants (even the legal ones), hate anyone with an accent in fact…yes, they are truly who I would hold up as a figuehead of the “tolerance movement” in America. If I ever find a skinhead, I’ll be sure to shake his hand and thank him for maing this great country of ours so tolerant in the light of his Christian morals.

    :::rolls eyes and slams head on her computer desk out of frustration that Christians think they are the saviors of EVERYTHING:::

  • Bill Perdue

    The recent elections brought christers scurrying out from their hiding places and infesting sites like Queerty. Once they set up house here they began carrying out their biblical duties as explained in Malachi 2.2,3, which admonishes “If ye will not give glory unto my name saith the LORD … I will spread dung upon your faces.” Hallelujah! Etc.

    And so verily now is the time to review some of the basics of GLBT life. Here’s a good start:

    And for a chuckle or two to ease the monotony of their tiresome preaching you might want to try

    And remember, don’t feed the christers. They’re here to disrupt, torment and ‘convert’. Their conversion and sero-conversion are both bad news.

    Arguing with them won’t affect their resolve to impose christian bigotry or divert our struggle. All it results in is endless bickering with people who don’t think in rational terms. They obey ‘voices’ and all the sanity and reasonableness in the world can’t compete with that.

  • Sebbe

    @Bill Perdue – THank you, LFMAO. One in the beginning states:

    Professional Christian: Do Not Attempt!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • getreal

    Christian gay and gay positive people have just as much right to be here as anyone else. We want gay liberation as much as anyone else if there are certain brothers and sisters on this site who want to take their anger out on their own kind instead of the homophobic fundamentalists so be it. Bigots don’t bother me be they racial or religious. You want to call me a nigger or a christer fine if that make it easier for you to live your life then go for it. I believe in equality and justice and I’m a good person if a person wants to hate me because of my race, color, or sexual orientation that is them they have a right to their opinion. What they can’t do is make me hate them. If someone is so insecure (BILL PERDUE)in their views they have to be bigoted against me to express them so be it. I will pray for you and keep on truckin. Blessings

  • greg

    @getreal: would it be okay if you again considered my two questions and answered them? This is part of establishing a dialogue. The questions are not rhetorical. I agree, know, and believe that God loves all people. I’m asking if there is anything he hates, dissapproves of, finds contemptible, etc. If yes, how should we view those things he dissapproves of, if in fact there is anything at all He hates? You seem to be a member of the clergy, I am a layman(pun not intended). Please indulge my questioning. One can’t learn without questioning.

  • Fr. Bernie

    Greg: God is incapable of hate. He is hurt when His children do things that hurts Him, as things that any child does hurt their parents. Christ taught us the most important thing is love of God and Love of our Brothers and Sisters. Following this, everything falls into place. So if we do things that hurt our Brothers and Sisters, God is displeased. Fr. Bernie,OSJB

  • Bill Perdue

    @getreal: getalife, please, tell us. Who used racial epithets? That’s despicable. Who said they hated you because you’re a straight christer trying to spread glad tidings? To be sure condolences are in order for anyone who traps themselves in a self-chosen bizarre lifestyle. But no one would waste energy hating you? Ridicule and laughter, on the other hand are not only called for they’re almost too easy.

    Who hates you because of your “race, color, or sexual orientation”? Or are you just emulating the sky pixie by spreading a little “dung upon your faces.” Would you care to offer any proof of that? Or was it simply another one of your lies?

    Come on, getalife, answer the question! Put up or shut up. Smearing holy “dung” will get you nowhere. Neither will indulging your monstrous appetites for self pity and drawing attention to yourself.

  • getreal

    @greg: I am absolutely not a clergy(wo)man. I think you posed two very interesting question and scholars have been discussing and dissecting these age old questions for eons and will continue to for many many years to come.

    Different people have different perspectives. I am of the school of thought that much in the bible is superfluous and was added in by 2nd 3rd 4th parties (leviticus which contains the only concrete reference of homosexuality as a sin is one example). Many christians believe only the actual words of christ are the basis of christianity so on that basis I can answer your question. Christ abhored (it never said he hated anything) intolerance, malice, lack of charity (this does not just refer to money or possessions). Christ said turn the other cheek meaning if your enemy wounds you try to give kindness in return that is another form of charity. So I don’t believe in hating anything but I think we should detest intolerance, malice, uncharitable judgement, and a host of others things Christ didn’t like.

    I hope I’m answering your questions at least a little. When you look at the actual words of Christ they very clearly do not support the hateful fundamentalist agenda. I have found when i actually debate homophobes on scriptural basis it is no contest there is a tenuous at best basis for anti-gay sentiments in the bible. When beaten on religious grounds they invariable admit they just have personal feelings of discomfort around LGBT people.

  • getreal

    @Bill Perdue: I post my opinions just like anyone else on this site. It is an exchange of ideas and I have as much right to share my perspective as you do. It has nothing to do with pity. We all have different experiences of life and I welcome reading other people’s points of view. That being said standing up for yourself in the face of bigotry is not a bad thing. When someone chooses to hate me or insult me based on who I am (make no mistake christer and nigger are the same thing I didn’t choose to be born into a christian family any more than I chose to be born into a black family) I have the right to respectfully respond. If people on this site want to attack their own kind instead of the real hate mongers go ahead. You asked me “who hates you?” well every time I happen to be on a thread with you feel the need to attack my background. Every time you posts hateful things about christers and how we don’t deserve to be here it is no less vicious than if you posted “you don’t belong here nigger”. At any rate feel free to continue if vomiting anger and bile at people on the same side as you who never have and never would do a thing to harm you to get back at homophobes works for you and makes you feel better it really isn’t my place to feel malice toward you. And I don’t feel any self-pity at the end of the day a bigots words are words not facts. I can’t control anyone’s conduct but my own if you want to take shots at me for my religion, color, or sexual orientation it is all bigotry you have the right I won’t be hateful back and I certaintly won’t be bigoted back. I pity bigots all of them every kind of bigot including you I don’t hate them. But feel free to hate me all you want call me and other christians every name in the book ultimately it isn’t us you are injuring but yourself. Hate anger are corrosive to the soul. Blessings

  • Bill Perdue

    @getreal: Just as I expected. No proof. More merde.

  • getreal

    @Bill Perdue: I understand being genuine is an anathema to you. You don’t understand earnestness or calls for justice most bigots don’t they think it’s merde. I’m sure James Dobson would agree with you that my sentiments are merde. I’ll pray for you and will try to wrap my mind around the fact that you believe certain people are sub-human and deserve to be insulted because of their background.

  • Bill Perdue

    @getreal: Oh the pity of it all.

  • getreal

    Substitute nigger for christer in any of your posts and they read like KKK pamphlets. Is that who you want to sound like? Here I’ll take your post and switch out christer and insert nigger.

    The recent elections brought the niggers scurrying out from their hiding places and infesting sites like Queerty.

    And remember, don’t feed the niggers. They’re here to disrupt, torment and ‘convert’.

    Oh and no one is here to convert anyone unlike you I respect people’s right to believe in whatever they want with out discrimination, intimidation, or conversion.

    Here are more of your words

    Arguing with them won’t affect their resolve to impose their niggotry or divert our struggle. All it results in is endless bickering with people who don’t think in rational terms.

    So see how ugly bigotry is I just swapped the word christers for niggers. So are you saying it is okay to hate me for being christian but not okay to hate me for being black? Seems like the same thing to me.

  • getreal

    I agree I pity bigots mostly because most of them don’t even think they are bigots they hate blacks or christians or jews or gays because to them we don’t deserve to be treated as humans. Yes Bill I pity you for that. I’m not perfect but at least I’m no bigot.

  • Bill Perdue

    @getreal: Is it any surprise that organized religion draws into itself the lonely hearts and the abandoned? Jesus is not merely an imaginary friend; he is also a fantasy lover.

  • getreal

    @Bill Perdue: Then why aren’t you a christian your posts always sound desperately lonely. It is also interesting since you have alluded to being sexually abused by a church person. I noticed you would daily post your obsession with it until i told you it was not your fault and to move on from it since then you have not mentioned.

    My question for you Bill is if you know Jesus never existed why do you CARE if I think he did. That is the hole in your whole persona. I have never tried to dissuade you of your beliefs I don’t have to I’m secure in my beliefs and feel everyone has a right to their opinion.

    Look bill be a bigot or don’t who cares I’m going to keep being some who tries to be kind and helpful to my fellow man to the best of my ability. If you want to call people niggers or christers, burn crosses or attack people for their backgrounds on websites be my guest. If you want to hate me because you think I’m a nigger or a christer be my guest. It is your privilege to think whatever you want. But if really believe God doesn’t exist why are you so desperate to convert people. Talking is like talking to a Jehovas witness why are you so desperate to tell people what to believe or not believe. It’s weird. The only thing I have ever stressed is don’t discriminate against people I have never told you what your faith should be. Oh what’s the use it is like debating with a Klansman. Hate as many people as you want enjoy it! Seems like a sad way to live but you seem to enjoy it. Good luck to you. Hopefully another christian will come on the boards and you can attack them or why stop there why not the jews, then the blacks, there is a whole world out there of well meaning people you can discriminate against insult and crap on. The world is your oyster. I am going to try to be kind. Blessings

  • Bill Perdue

    @getreal: More merde, more lies. Pathetic. We don’t hate you we feel sorry for you.

  • getreal

    @Bill Perdue: Nice life hating everyone. Enjoy it! I’m going dancing.

  • getreal

    You are funny it is pathetic to love people but smart to hate and fear them. Sorry the priest touched your pepe. LOL At any rate God bless you!

  • Charles J. Mueller

    @Bill Perdue:
    @greg: @Stef:

    At last. Some other posters who can see through this disingenuous, two-faced lair and who aren’t intimidated by her constant, repetitious, self-righteous Christian preaching to those of us who don’t see the real world through her clouded, rose-colored glasses of goodness and light.

    She just played the race card with you, Bill. No two ways about it.

    “You want to call me a nigger” were the exact words she threw at you like a gauntlet in the dirt.

    Notice her sly, disingenuous modus operandi. She didn’t exactly come right out and say that you had called her one. She merely alluded the the fact that you would like to call her one, and in so doing, put words in your mouth that you never uttered. You are absolutely right. It’s despicable.

    Having dragged racism into a thread where none was present beforehand, note how she now ramps up and amplifies her original unfounded allegation to your purported racism.

    “Every time you posts hateful things about christers and how we don’t deserve to be here it is no less vicious than if you posted “you don’t belong here nigger”.” That too is despicable.

    No matter, however. You are now on her shit-list and she is gonna hang that tag on you, no matter how much you object. The damage, which was her intent, has been done. With her unprovable allegation, she has now painted a picture of you as a racist and no amount of explanation on your behalf is going to change that for her.

    Not only has she made up her mind that you are a racist, she has probably garnered the sympathy of a few other posters along the way who have not read all the remarks leading up to this fallacious attack on your character who will also now think that you are, in fact, a racist. And, by continuing to shovel more and more dung onto the heap, who said what first, will be lost forever and she will have won her pathetic little martyr game. Does that tactic have a familiar ring to it?

    It’s a classic Perils of Pauline drama where you are cast as the evil, black cloak-wearing landlord leaning over her menacingly and saying “You must pay the rent, while the heroine places the back of her hand to her forehead and whines “But, I can’t pay the rent.” Guess who gets booed and hissed at in that little scenario?

    But wait. The piecé de resistance is coming. In her post no. 33, she lets it all hang out and rolls out the heavy artillery that she has been hiding behind the skirts of her habit.

    Duck. Here it comes.

    “Substitute nigger for christer in any of your posts and they read like KKK pamphlets. Is that who you want to sound like? Here I’ll take your post and switch out christer and insert nigger.”

    A cannonball delivered straight to the solar plexis with unerring accuracy. Never mind that she has scratched out every reference to christer and taken it upon HERSELF to insert the dreaded word which you never said.

    “Here I’ll take your post and switch out christer and insert nigger”

    On a roll now, that remark is quickly followed up with two more cannon balls, this time direct to the crotch like a well placed knee kicks. A left and a right in quick succession.

    1) “The recent elections brought the niggers scurrying out from their hiding places and infesting sites like Queerty.

    2) “And remember, don’t feed the niggers. They’re here to disrupt, torment and ‘convert’.”

    Isn’t there a law against this sort of thing? Defamation of character, or some such thing?

    It’s the same tried and tested vehicle the Mormons and the Catholic Church employed with Prop. 8 in California. Stigmatize a minority group. Make unfounded allegations. Distort and convolute the facts. Defame. Tell lies and spread vicious rumors to get laws passed that take away civil-rights LGBT folks had already won.

    52% of the population of California believed these disingenuous liars who gloating say “We love the sinner but but we hate the sin.”

    I submit that Getreal is no different from the people who voted our rights away from us in California. She pretends to be a friend who is on our side, when all the while, all she is really here for, is to utilize our gay site as a platform for her Christian rhetoric and bullshit and a lunching site for her own brand of racism, bigotry and hatred that all just came unwrapped like pretty boxes filled with merde under the Christmas tree.

    It might interest you to know that this hypocrite has also been on my back for months now like a fly is on to shit. She just played the same race care on me on another thread entitled Where In The Bible Does It Say Colorado State Scott Renfroe Gets To Withold The Civil Rights of Others?” Here is a copy and past of her quote from one of her diatribes directed at me.

    “@Charles J. Mueller: Uppity.. was that a racial remark?”

    And like you, I found myself having to defend myself from a comment I never made. You are most welcome to read my response to her after she slung her bucket of shit over the fence at me. I am now a racist by implication.

    Make no mistake about it. She’s a Christian alright. Her words and actions prove it.

    But, most disturbing of all, is the fact that she has managed to drag into her camp, with this despicable manipulation of hers, to drive a wedge between me and two commentators on that thread with whom I have been having a pleasant discourse. With her sleazy, manipulation of people’s emotions and making herself out to be the St. Joan of Ark martyr she loves to play, they are now telling me that perhaps I could have handled the situation a little better. I gotta hand it to her. She sure knows how to mind-fuck people over.

    Get real must have been an devoted LCR student of Dubya because she plays the Divide and Conquer game with the skill of a snake. She paints herself out to be the Good Christian, who is not like other Christians who hate and despise us. She is respectful. She is tolerant. She is loving and she never misses a chance to tell us so while reminding us, over and over, ad nauseum, to turn the other cheek. In other words, be just like me.

    A cretin.

  • Charles J. Mueller

    @Bill Perdue:

    I goofed. Her post no. 33 was NOT the piecé de resistance.

    After her disgusting tirade (would the word shit-fit be more appropriate) this would have to be the piecé de resistance.

    I am going to try to be kind. Blessings

    Stef, I am right there with you, rolling my eyes and slamming my head on your computer desk out of frustration that Christians think they are the saviors of EVERYTHING:::

  • Charles J. Mueller

    I forgot to put “I am going to try to be kind. Blessings” in quotation marks. Getreal said it, not me!

  • getreal

    I’m working on the repeal Prop 8 campaign. What have YOU done to help people in california I wonder. Tomorrow I’m going to be at the Lamda Legal fundraiser in West hollywood helping it get overturned. See I actually DO things I don’t just insult and discriminate. So while I and the other christians and non christians and jews and blacks and whites and atheists and whomever else is there are aiding Lamda Legal overturn this hateful proposition you can enjoy yourself discussing why we are sub-human for believing in God (how dare we feel differently than you, the nerve!) People are turning away from your posts because the rhetoric is hateful and the average person does not want to be on the side of people who attack minorities. Fundamentalists target LGBT people partly because they are a minority they feel justified because they outnumber them. On this site you target christians because we are a minority and no amount of respectful language or tolerance of your views stops the onslaught of your hate. Anything christians do is evil even when we choose to turn the other cheek it is still evil. Seems like the only thing a christian could do to please you is roll over and die or decide to think exactly the way you do. Neither of those is option for me. Feel free to attack me based on my background because my views are different than yours you feel i deserve it whatever I don’t. And you can’t hate every gay and gay positive christian out there you are only helping the homophobe fundamentalists because any christians who want to aide in this fight (like they did in abolition and the civil rights movement) will probably see your attacks and run for the hills not me though. I’m not going to sit in the back of the bus I’m as much a human as you I deserve to be here as much as you. No matter how many christians you attack on this site you haven’t hurt one homophobe not one you actually help make their case for them. I have no doubt some of these idiots have used comments of yours to reenforce the idea that gay people hate christians. Good show. Why don’t you go out and talk to homophobes? I’m done this is silly I would never try to waste my time convincing a Klansman not to target me I won’t waste my time trying to reason with you. The reason people are turning on you is that it gets old watching someone get picked on for who they are. There are a lot of people who were bullied and insulted for being gay and some of them don’t appreciate reading your bullying posts. I’m done characterize me any way you want based on my background. I hope that attacking me in some way helps expiate the abuse that you clearly have suffered. I will continue to try to be a good person and yes pray to God to help everyone (you, the klan, homophobes) be relieved of hatred and malice and be gifted with the ability to do constructive not destructive things to improve this country and ourselves. I understand you are absolutely incapable of thinking that I could be sincere because to you I am not a human I’m a sub-human who has no humanity but is just a pile of agendas. I’m very sincere I’m not going to become a hateful person because weak people want to discriminate against me I will just pity them. Hating anyone is a waste of energy and life.

    If you are in west hollywood tomorrow and want to help California overturn this unjust law there are still tickets available. This event will be history in the making and give you a great opportunity to help California and our country correct this injustice! If you can’t go give the fundamentalist hate-mongers are VERY well funded. God Bless!

  • getreal

    We don’t have to argue if you want to hate me because I’m christian go ahead be a bigot. I’m not a bigot and I’m not going to go away because of your prejudice. Have a good night gentleman and please give to Lamda Legal!

  • vernonvanderbilt

    Charles, getreal has done nothing that would drive a wedge between you and I as far as I’m concerned, presuming I was one of those two commentators you referred to. Maybe you see it differently, I don’t know.

    As I recall, I simply pointed out that we are all looking for the same thing in the end (equality) and that a discussion is preferable to an argument, because I could tell that the conversation was veering dangerously close to hostility at that point, and I had no desire to see it come to that. I pointed out where both you and getreal made missteps in the discussion. She read them and responded graciously. You didn’t acknowledge my comments at all, instead opting to keep the venom flowing, effectively killing the conversation.

    I don’t know if I have just given you the wrong idea of who I am or what, but I’ve made every effort to be clear about my intent with every post. As I pointed out in the other thread, the written word is easily misinterpreted. I critique christianity, yes, but I’m far from being an atheist (not that those are the only choices anyway, no matter how some people choose to see it). I’m an angry person, but I also value creation more than destruction. I have definite ideas of what I consider to be right and wrong, but I am not so closed-minded as to refuse to consider the possiblity that I may not have all the answers.

    I’m sorry if you think there’s a divide between us, but if there is, it’s entirely on your end, and that’s not something I can overcome for you. No two people are going to agree on every single issue. You and I seem to agree on many. I wouldn’t recommend looking for wedges where none exist, unless your goal is to plant some.

    And if I’m permitted to be frank here, this whole saga/drama/vendetta between the two of you is getting tired anyway. It’s already killed one good discussion. How many more will die? How many more won’t even happen in the first place now? It’s a dead horse. Everyone involved in it needs to stop beating it, because it’s only raising a stink. If you can’t get along with someone, or refuse to get along with someone, or don’t want to get along with someone, whatever the case may be…then just stop talking to them. It’s not hard.

    I’ll repeat the basic theme I elaborated on in the other thread: don’t just read others’ posts, but think about them as well before you respond. When you respond, think carefully about what you’re trying to communicate and try to compose it in such a way as to keep misunderstandings minimal. And above all else, save the hate for our enemies, not our allies. I think those should be common sense guidelines for everyone. If everyone at least tried to follow them, then shitstorms like the one this thread has apparently turned into will be a lot less frequent.

    That’s pretty much all I have to say about it for the time being. If you are offended or angry or hurt or whatever, sorry. I can only do what I always do, and that’s present my own personal point of view. For what it’s worth, it’ll probably be a long time before I make another appeal for civility. It’s a waste of precious time it seems.

  • Charles J. Mueller

    Little Jackelyn Horner sat in the corner, eating a CHRISTMAS PIE
    She stuck in her thumb, and pulled out a plumb, and she said “what a good girl am I!”

  • getreal

    I just saw this because they spotlighted this comedian on the site a funny sweet reminder that everyone can change if they have a good heart. Watch this guy imitate his mothers reaction to finding out he is gay. Watch it to the end and try your hardest not to be at least a little tickled.We are all allies here whatever our differences and a little bit of tolerance and patience will create more allies. Anyway that’s what I got from this 1 minute video.

  • Charles J. Mueller


    Lest you think it was directed at you, the Jackelyn Horner comment was directed at Getreal. I had not expected such a quick reply from you and thought it would be self-evident following her last post. Yours came in ahead of mine, effectively separating it and making it look like I might have intended it for you.

    There was a chilling tone of umbrage that ran throughout your entire post, so I re-read comments to see what might have cause it. It as then that I realized that I had made an omission of a word that changed the entire meaning of my comment. That word was “attempted” and this is how that sentence should have read.

    “But, most disturbing of all, is the fact that she has managed to drag into her camp, with this despicable manipulation of hers, attempted to drive a wedge between me and two commentators on that thread with whom I have been having a pleasant discourse.”

    I know. it’s horrible sentence structure, but that that was how I was feeling at the time I posted. I can readily see how that omission might have made you feel like I was looking to plant wedges. I hasten to assure you, that was never my intent. It as also understandable that you thought I was trying to distance myself. That too was never my intent.

    As you once pointed out, how we say things, or the choices of words that we make, or as in this case, an unintentional omission of a word, can change the entire tone and intent of what I meant to say. I think, however, that you will agree with me when I say that I do not ever recall one instance in which I did not lavish praise on you or be complimentary of you. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    You said:

    “She read them and responded graciously.”

    Umm…no venon flowing from any of her post. None at all.

    Heart of Mary, Mirror of God’s Goodness and Providence.

    Vernon, did you read any of her comments on this thread, or was mine the one and only one you looked at and decided to respond to poste haste?

    Why is it that Jesus freaks and sky-pixie believers, after spilling their rotgut and venom, always come out smelling like a rose? All they have to say is “Bless You” and all is forgiven.

    Sorry, my friend, in my book, Getreal is just an out and out disingenuous liar and a manipulator a fact that has been stated by other posters on these thread as well. Quite a few of us are onto her. She’s been doing her shit long before you ever came onto these threads.

    I have said it before and I will keep on saying it. I have no respect for her and I don’t have to tolerate her. No more than I need to tolerate and respect the Christians and Mormons who took away my civil-liberties on November 4th. I just hope that Getreal never turns on you, the way she has turned on a number of posters on these threads who are as fed-up with her lies and whining as I am. There was a time when she was nice to me too. Until I disagreed with her, that. Then I got to see the real colors of her coat. We’ve seen some of her displays of respect, tolerance and love, haven’t we?

    Because of the hateful actions of Christians and mormons, my Philippine partner and I, along with some 40,000 other bi-national couples have suffered six years of separation, not to mention the terrible financial burden of maintaining two domiciles, on two different continents on two sides of the world. Unless Getreal herself is involved in a same-sex, bi-national relationship, I am certain she does not have clue one as to how that feels to those of us who are in constant emotional anguish and pain. Listening to her and others like her, carping on and on about the good Christians is like having salt rubbed into the wound. I and other same-sex, bi-national couples are offended by her defense of Christians. I don’t need to be told, by her of all people, how to live and what I should do and what I can and cannot say on these threads.

    I did not immediately acknowledge your comments for two reasons. First, because I was not feeling very well. My second reason was that I did not wish to make an emotional response and needed a little time to mull over your comments before doing so.

    And in closing, I am not angry, offended or hurt by anything you have said. I understand that the points of view that you expressed were prompted by the unfortunate omission I made reference to at the beginning of this response to you and for that reason, I will not elaborate on or respond to any of the other comments you made, including your closing comment. Given the misunderstanding, it would be moot to do so.

  • Bill Perdue

    @Charles J. Mueller: Charles, we just got back from a late dinner at the casino and ogling the guys at our favorite watering hole.

    Thanks for you comments. And you needn’t worry; lots of people notice what a vile creature getparanoid is. They’ve seen her spout filth about you, me and plenty of others. She even called one commentator from England a pederast because he defended Adams in Portland.

    My original comments didn’t mention getparanoid at all but were directed, like Sebbe’s, at JJ and FIRST, two more christers trolls telling us to repent or burn. JJ said that gays were hypocrites, cruel and intolerant. (Sound familiar?) I never mentioned her because I rather not have to listen to her anti-gay rants. But she must have been tipped of by one of her ‘voices’ because getparanoids martyr complex, her self-pity and her desire to be in the spotlight kicked in big time. Her ‘voices’ got the best of her and told her to make up a whole new bunch of lies. I’m not particularly worried about them because I’ve been posting here a year or two and no one’s going to believe her. Not about you, me or anyone else she goes after.

    But they will wonder why getparanoid has these hissy fits so often. What I did tonight was give her openings to prove that she’s a bigot who despises gay men. At least those who don’t believe in sky pixies. But she’s the one who put her foot in her mouth and simultaneously shot herself in the foot. It was quite a show.

    As they say at “The Christian Heaven may have been a vain folly but the Christian Hell has been real enough.” And getparanoid keeps showing it to us. I can’t imagine why she, JJ and FIRST believe we want even a glimpse into the demented life style they’ve chosen.

  • Charles J. Mueller

    @Bill Perdue:

    “Is it any surprise that organized religion draws into itself the lonely hearts and the abandoned? Jesus is not merely an imaginary friend; he is also a fantasy lover.

    Bill, your comment strikes a very familiar note for me.

    My father ran away from home when I was five years old.

    My mother chose to spend the rest of her life on my grandmother’s sofa. She never dated another man and never re-married.

    How could she? She was married to Jesus!

    The bitterness ate her up so much, that she died of ovarian cancer. Before the end, however, she turned on the very Church she had given her life to when they refused to assist her in her suffering and misery. They took 10% of her salary, plus plate donations, all of her working life, but the priest she went to visit when she became ill, couldn’t give her 30 minutes of his time before showing her the door.

    Talk about a wasted life?

  • Bill Perdue

    @Charles J. Mueller: Something like that happened to my grandma.

    In the late 1950’s she got cancer (there was no cure rate then, if you got the Big C you put your affairs in order) and her scumwad minister promised a healing in exchange for her house! She suffered terribly and died in agony. My father and his brothers and sisters got the deed back and the good christer minister never even tried to recover it.

    I was a little kid but I remember shuddering and hoping I never did anything to deserve the looks they gave that pig. I’m surprised he lived and I bet he was too.

  • Charles J. Mueller

    @Bill Perdue:

    “Charles, we just got back from a late dinner at the casino and ogling the guys at our favorite watering hole.”

    Bill, if I’d had a lick of sense, that was exactly what I should have done, since it was Saturday night. lol Anyway, I’m gad that you guys had fun and enjoyed the eye candy. It’s good to get out now and then.

    You wrote: “It was quite a show.”

    That, it was. Like rockets going off on the fourth of July. She didn’t hold anything back, did she? I’ll bet when she was finished, she looked like a completely deflated balloon in shreds that had blown itself inside out! lol

    The really hilarious thing, however, now that she took her foot out of her mouth and bandaged the other one, she is all goodness and sweetness again with honey and milk spilling from between her lips and providing video links for us to watch.

    Regarding the hissy fits, I got to thinking about these rapid mood shifts she displays and started wondering if she might not be suffering from be bi-polar disorder? Nurse Rached and a carefully administered regimen of meds, could make a changed woman of her. At least, one we could live with. lol

    I am almost willing to bet that she is a Baptist as well, but I could be wrong.

    Her reply No. 43 to me is a real exercise in patting one’s self on the back. After praising herself copiously, she had to insert this little zinger in ”

    What have YOU done to help people in california I wonder.”

    Her way of saying “See what a wonderful Christian person I am and what a big piece of shit you are?” Only someone like her, would have the lack of class to stand up on a public soap box and brag what SHE is doing for the gay movement. The rest of us just quietly did what needed to be done with no fanfare and hoopla and no one’s efforts, regardless of the size and scope, need be diminished or marginalized by the likes of that self righteous blowhard.

    And just when did the Christians become a “minority group”? It is not only one of the three major religions of the world, I believe it is also the richest. Poor babies. Everyone is so mean to them.

  • strumpetwindsock

    Charles and Bill, you guys are behaving like children.
    You’re not even dealing with the issues; you just seem to be waging a personal attack. It’s really offensive and uncalled for.

    FYI I have flagged your comments. It’s not my site, but frankly I think this level of discussion is completely out of line.

  • vernonvanderbilt

    @Charles J. Mueller: Okay, since you have revised the comment, I agree that that it changes the meaning significantly. I am pleased with the new meaning it has taken on, as I do enjoy conversing with you. I am no longer offended by that sentence.

    As far as getreal’s responses on that other thread, I think it’s a case of you and I reading them differently. I’m willing to grant you the possibility that my desire to see my fellow GLBT people in as positive a light as possible may have coloured my perceptions, but I, personally, did not take her comments as personal attacks on anyone. Instead, what I saw was frustration in action, and I can empathize with that, because there have been many times in my life when the attitudes of others have frustrated me. I’m not saying she handled the situation 100% effectively; I’m just saying I understand why it happened the way it did.

    As far as this thread goes, I did read all the comments before I posted, but I was too tired to get into a dissection at that point. I have errands to run today or I’d go ahead and post my thoughts on this conversation. As it stands, I’ll simply have to get to that later, if the Universe is willing to permit me the luxury. The only reason I responded at all was because I thought you had taken my last post on the other thread the wrong way, and I wanted to clarify the situation to ease my own mind. Re-reading my post above, I can see how it might not look entirely pleasant. My only excuse is that the more tired I am, the more emotional I tend to get (don’t ask how many times a simple song has driven me to weep, even instrumentals), and your comment bothered me.

    To further clarify my position, because it’s something else that has been on my mind since last night, while I generally agree with your position on christianity, I still believe that your anger is not focused enough to be constructive, at least some of the time. I stand by my previous (implied) statements, that I do not believe gay-positive christians of any orientation are a bad thing. I do not agree with their spiritual views, but I do believe that an ally is an ally, and that our energies are better spent attacking and demonizing the homophobes, no matter what creed they choose to follow.

    I come from a family that is heavily comprised of people who are constantly feuding with someone, within the family or not, over petty issues. I would say that’s why I have a tendency to try to play the peacekeeper, at least among people whose company I enjoy. While I would hardly see that as a flaw, I also see how some people would get the wrong idea about me because of it. My only desire thus far has been to attempt to facilitate reasonable discussion with my GLBT brothers and sisters as far as the subject of religion goes. It’s a topic I enjoy exploring, and have for years.

    Other than that, when things start getting personal, I generally tend to step back and let them play out if they don’t concern me directly. Philosophical positions aside, the feud between you and getreal has nothing to do with me, and I have affection for the both of you for various reasons. The last thing I was or am interested in would be trying to pick a side. I could very easily get in-depth and describe the flaws I’ve seen on both sides of this situation, but it has not been asked for, or called for, and I make a conscious effort every day to avoid being seen as a busybody. It’s a personal issue between the two of you, and while it does concern me on occasion, you’re both adults and it isn’t my place to interfere.

    I don’t doubt that getreal and I will disagree on something at some point. We’ve already disagreed on plenty as it is. Do I think she will ever “turn on me,” as you phrase it? I’d like to think not, considering we seem to have a pretty good understanding between us so far. As long as she and I are getting along, I see no reason to go after her in anything other than a logical. ideological sense.

    I don’t condemn you for taking offense at some of her comments. I think it’s only natural that some people would now and then. But I also don’t condemn her for taking offense to some of yours. I believe that both of you have a tendency to let your emotions get the better of you, and that rarely leads to anything but problems.

    I have to go now, but I think I’ve gone on long enough already for you to get where I’m coming from here. I may revisit the original subject of this thread’s discussion later, depending on how this shopping excursion goes (I hate grocery shopping). For the time being, though, I’m inclined to sit out the drama between you two. I don’t have the stamina right now which jumping in the middle of this mess requires. I hope you understand my position.

  • RichardR

    Haven’t read every word of every post but what I’m observing is that “trolls” such as Greg, JJ, and First, have utterly disrupted our dialogue, which is about a major figure of the religious right changing his job title. He ain’t goin no place, nor are his minions.

    They’ve even managed to set us against ourselves. Bill, Getreal, Charles, and all, we have differences, but much in common. What we, religious or not, have in common is the enmity of the religious right. Like it or not, Bill — and I’m as skeptical of organized religion as you — there are good people who are religious and on the side of equality and freedom for gay people. I am glad they are with us and welcome them to our cause. Do I look forward to the day when religion is on the same shelf in the library as the Brothers Grimm? Absolutely.

  • strumpetwindsock

    Late comment I know, but read your history, man.

    You are right that christianity has had an overt influence on your country but as for the people who founded your constitution, they were firmly against religion having any sway on government:

    Your Puritans came there and built a religious dictatorship, and frankly you have been wrestling with their legacy ever since.

    Americans go on about British Imperialism, but the fact is the British ended slavery throughout much of the world long before you did, and stopped the Puritans from killing Quakers and other “heretics”.

    Lest you lump me in with some of these other fellows I think how a person believes is no one else’s business, and I do not think all Christian belief is intrinsically evil. But it has no place in politics.

  • getreal

    I appreciate the different points of view and I agree with Vernonvanderbilt if someone does not want to have a dialogue with me I should not push the issue. It is just difficult to not comment when people aggressively use these threads as a forum to discriminate against a population of people who are here.I naively thought if I spoke kindly and rationally that I would be able to make Bill or Charles (I’ve never had any disagreements with anyone here even if we had differences of opinion) see that despite our difference I am just another poster who ultimately has the same goal though the reasoning behind my belief in equality are different. I tried to draw the analogy of race to religion meaning if you would never call someone a nigger why do you think it is acceptable to call someone a christer. I even took one of Bill’s post and I inserted nigger for christer and anyone can read it is a pretty dramatic lesson in prejudice. I will again make the statement that I didn’t choose to born into a christian family anymore than I chose to be born into a black family but I’m glad I did I like who I am and ‘m a good person. I deserve respect and equality as much as anyone

    .Hating me for my background is as nonsensical as the fundamentalists hating people for being born gay. I was not playing the race card I was making an analogy. An analogy that is very effective when you see how chillingly hateful the posts are when you change the target of attack. After reading the long posts of Bill and charles and the long list of (justified) grievances they have against christians it does make it clear where the hate comes from but if does not make it justified. It seems unfair and bitter Bill and Charles to expect every christian out there to be expected to bear the brunt of the anger for all the injustices of YOUR life. It is clear that any action, word, gesture mad by a christian will by these two men be seen as evil and manipulative. I didn’t kill your mother charles or keep you from your husband. I have never lied manipulated and personally attacked anyone on this site EVER. I only asked to be free of hate speech and attacks. it is ironic on a site where we are all looking to insure equality there is a minority (sadly right now on this site christians are a minority more and more church’s are waking up to the inherent unfairness of ant-gay legislation so I do anticipate more and more allies of faith) that you two feel it is OK to humiliate insult hate and if they ask to be treated equal they are being a martyr or self pitying.

    I grew up in a very progressive town in a fairly progressive time so I have been blessed to have experienced very little discrimination but I did grow up listening to parents stories of their childhoods up through the civil rights movement. I was raised with the tools to handle myself in the face of bigots: Offer kindness in the face of hatred, never lose your dignity no matter is said to you, don’t allow someone else’s hatred of you based on who you are ever let you lose your humanity and hate them back just keep on keepin on. My parents marched and desegregated lunch counters and dealt with a level of hatred I can’t even fathom. That being said although Bill Charles and I all all have a right to our opinion and a right to dissent I think this needs to be a safe space for all LGBT people and their allies. Most of us here have experienced discrimination in one form or another either because of our sexual orientation or color. I think we should start flagging hateful posts and as many poster have already done respectfully appeal to poser who are fighting or bullying to take it down a notch. I’m going to keep working for equality and I will continue to read all the diverse and interesting points of view on this site. Blessings

  • getreal

    I meant poster not posers

  • Charles J. Mueller


    Flag away, Mr. Strumptwindsock. By the way, do you do that with your right hand, or your left hand?

    Last I heard, America is still a free country with freedom of speech reasonably intact.

    Oh…silly me. I totally forgot. Canadians don’t allow that, do they?

    Given the restrictions on freedom of speech in Canada, I can certainly understand the self-righteous, meddling position you have chosen to take.

    After all, misery loves company, doesn’t it?

  • Sebbe

    @getreal – I was looking over a jossip and it looks like Drew has a post about you, didn’t know if you saw it and thought you might want to know.

    “The Poetry of our Comments Section

    Have you ever bothered reading this stuff? It’s like some brilliant haiku shit. From the article about Colbert challenging Steele to a rap-off:

    No. 2 · getreal:
    The white man is the one who is whiter.

    No. 3 · A Noun:
    He was our invisible Lt. Governor for far too long. Trust me – Steele is so white he glows in the dark.

    No. 4 · getreal:
    @A Noun: No he is black. Explain why this black man is white?

    It’s even better than the Dalai Lama’s Twitter. Speaking of Twitter…”

  • getreal

    @Sebbe: I’m black and the posts was who is whiter Stephen Colbert or the black republican leader. So i said the white man is whiter which is true. Feel free to read the exchange and 3 other people agreed and posted their agreement that a black conservative is not a black man acting white but a black man with a conservative point of view. Please read away I said nothing untoward.

  • getreal

    @Sebbe: Oh I just read your link! I misunderstood you were just directing me to a Jossip story. I’m glad I thought I had offended you in some way! I’m going to try to take my foot out of my mouth now it doesn’t taste very good. Thanks for pointing out the story, very cool of you!

  • Sebbe

    @getreal – No problem and as you suspected I just wanted to make you aware that your name and post was being used in a post on jossip by one of the editors (Drew?). I figured I would want to know if the situation was in reverse. To be honest I didn’t give any thought either way to the topic at hand or what was being said. Just thought it would be common courtesy to alert you. Ironically actually I had subscribed to this post, so had seen your name, and I rarely look a jossip, I especially am not a fan of Drew’s post over there, but clicked the link and read it and again saw your name.

    So again. Cheers and have a nice evening.


  • strumpetwindsock

    @Charles J. Mueller:
    I’d like to know how you figure I’m meddling, Charles. Don’t I have the right to post here? Am I supposed to sit back and shut up if I see someone being harrassed?

    I flagged your comments because I consider it unfair personal attack. I think it’s degrading and hateful the way you two are talking. I am fully aware it’s up to the owner of this site to do something about it or not, but we all have the right to comment on whether we feel a post is appropriate, so you have no call to lecture me.

    And regardless what action they take I am telling you I consider yours and Bill’s comments about her shameful, and I think you owe her an apology.

    And as for the freedom of speech debate, maybe you should leave that back in the thread where it belongs. From the looks of that article you posted it looks like you care more for the free speech rights of homophobes than you do for people who post here in this forum.

    You may have noticed the news article this week that Obama is finally allowing pictures of soldiers coffins to be published again in the land of the free.

    Yes, you guys are way ahead of us here in Canuckistan.

  • Charles J. Mueller

    “I flagged your comments because I consider it unfair personal attack.” – Pricilla Goodbody (Official Self-appointed Querty Censor)

    Tattle tale much, do you?

  • Dawn

    This man, sadly, is who a majority of my family have devoted themselves to listening to in spite of the continuous pleading from me pointing out that this man: 1) is NOT a doctor, and 2) preaches hate and obscurities Jesus himself would be mortified at. In the movie, “For the Bible Tells Me So” there is an appalling statement made by Dr. Dobson that states “if your children come to you telling you they’re gay you DON’T accept them but rather tell them they have to and will change”. What kind of Christian person, let alone a human being, tells his listeners that you don’t accept your children? A nutjob, that’s who! I wish James Dobson was exiled from this country and banished to live the remainder of his life on an island populated by the gay community to force him to face the truth that he is not only ignorant and hollow but that he has sorely ignored a real issue – God would NEVER allow him to see the light of day let alone heaven when his time came. You can’t belittle groups you choose to misunderstand and behave like a terrorist – acting as ludicrous and blatantly ignorant as they are. Fundamentalist Christians are the reason people like me stray as far away from organized religion as humanly possible.

    This world is far too fragile to allow people like this and Rush Limbaugh and Rick Warren to spread their seething hatred and bigotry. I believe we are better than that and though the Civil Rights movement took far too long to be victorious, this issue of equality that denies the fundamental rights ALL Americans are protected by (by our Constitutional rights) will soon be overturned.

    I was watching a documentary on HBO called, “The Black List: Volume One” and there is something Richard Parsons says that really struck me. “People in America feel compelled to bring in the notion of ethnicity. When people look at you and then evaluate you or write about you, you’re gonna be looked at on either side of the line. If you succeed they’re gonna say ‘now see, here’s a black person who succeeded’ and if you fail, they’re gonna say, ‘well, here’s another black person who failed’ and so we’ll know we’ve made real progress when we just get to be a person.”

    We will eventually ALL just be a person. There will be battles along the way … as much as there are battles now with women who were liberated decades ago and African Americans liberated forty years before. Though we continue to fight the insecurities and negligence of an uneducated and unwilling society, we NEVER give up! This battle will be resolved and ALL people will be equal.

  • Charles J. Mueller


    Time to reinsert that foot back in your mouth, girlfriend.

    You said here on this thread…

    “There are several black people on there expressing their opinion that it is crass to call a black man white just because he is a conservative.”

    Over on Jossip, you said…

    No. 13 · getreal

    @bam-a-lam: So that still doesn’t make him white. He is just a black guy who is a conservative. See white is a race not a politcal position. Black people are allowed to think in all sorts of ways as are whites it doesn’t change your color. The idea is asinine.

    “He is just a black guy who is conservative” you say?

    How about we say that he’s an out-and-out bigoted homophobe. Perhaps you need to go back and read the original Queerty thread. He’s the link.

    Or, does his skin color make it politically incorrect for us to comment on his homophobia?

  • Bill Perdue


    You should have read every word.

    I didn’t criticize getsevenwithgaymen in any of my initial comments for her puritanical views or in a personal sense. Like others I made perfectly reasonable anti-religious comments aimed at JJ and First in my comments 11 and 22. Read them and then read getsevenwithgaymen’s comment 24 where she proclaims her martyrdom at the hands of bad atheists “If someone is so insecure (BILL PERDUE)in their views they have to be bigoted against me to express them so be it.” Then she insults me by offering to direct her prayers to sky pixie land.

    Then she got ugly, as usual. She called me a racist. In the same vein she claims that my calls to prosecute priests and pastors who rape children are because “the priest touched your pepe. LOL“. What a putrid and typically fundamentalist insult to the (at least) thousands of children and youths who’ve been raped and abused by protestant, catholic and mormon cult priests and pastors.

    Getsevenwithgaymen owes them an apology.

    You say “Like it or not, Bill — and I’m as skeptical of organized religion as you — there are good people who are religious and on the side of equality and freedom for gay people.” What’s your point? I agree. Although I reserve the right to criticize them when they act like getsevenwithgaymen who are critical of her puritanical superstitious nonsense.

    And that is the point. Superstitious people who want to impose their antigay views on us will just have to be prepared to be criticized. And ridiculed when their martyr complex gets the best of them and they climb up on that old wooden cross one time too many.

    I’ve been a consistent supporter of getting allies, although I think groups like the unions, MALDEF and the NAACP are worth their weight in gold whereas the christers come with a lot of baggage and are historically unreliable. Buddhists and christers who pray to ‘whom it may concern’ are a bit more reliable. GLBT islamists are positively heroic; they put their lives on the line all the time. getevenwithgaymen’s cliam that I oppose alliance building is bull, what I do oppose are her slanders against people who won’t do her puritan two-step.

    I was among the first to criticize No on 8 publically long before the election for refusing to reach out to the Asian-Pacific, Black and Latino communities and to labor and students. I was one of the few who warned that if they didn’t criticize Obama’s anti-GLBT same sex marriage bigotry then we could lose. And I was part of a small minority who criticized the post election wave of racist attacks on Blacks, accusing them of losing the marriage battles. So, while I welcome alliance building I will not be silent or silenced if our purported ‘religious’ allies try to impose 16th century attitudes about sex on us or if they proselytize.

  • Bill Perdue

    @strumpetwindsock: Did you flag getevenwithgaymen when she called “tallskin” a pederast for disagreeing with the her puritanical call to light their torches, grab their pitchforks and go after Adams in Portland for the crime of having sex with a man.

    I thought not.

    In previous posts did you flag her sanctimonious and lying personal attacks on Charles, myself and others.

    I thought not.

    Is that because you agree with her puritanical attitude towards GLBT sex?

    What’s your game?

  • Charles J. Mueller

    @Bill Perdue:

    Hi Bill. Since RichardR named the both of us in his commentary No. 55, I also had it in mind to respond to him. Having clarified a number of points very adequately as you did, I will simply ditto your comments.

    Still angry as hell over getsevenwithgaymen’s unfounded and despicable charge of racism that she leveled at us and LMAO at Tattle Tale Trumpet’s ludicrous suggestion that we should apologize to getsevenwithgaymen for the “degrading and hateful way you two are talking”, I decided to Google the word christer.

    This link is but one of many links I saw that commonly use the word christer as a reference to Christian believers.

    No where in that link, as well as some of the others that I checked out, did I see any reference to or comparison of the term christers with the “N” word that getsevenwithgaymen liberally sprinkled throughout her numberous rants at us with.

    She was, in fact, the one who hauled the “N” word out and she fired that word at us at lest a half dozen times. Who, I ask, is the real racist here? Truth be known, it smacks of reverse discrimination, especially when one inserts words into people’s mouths that were never spoken or implied.

    And people like TrumpetBlower seem to feel that they have the God-given right to come onto an American-based site, late-comer that he is, and freely voice his opinions, lecture and proselytize us while at the same time, trying to suppress the right of American citizens (read taxpayers) from expressing their views. I wonder how he would like it were we to try to tell him how he should behave in his country?

    That shit might work in the Censored North 40, (Canukistan I believe he called it), where they can’t even get a skin flick across the border, but this is after all, America, where many of us still believe in the concept different strokes for different folks.

    In many ways, getsevenwithgaymen and Pricilla Goodbody are very much alike…odd bedfellows, if you will. Hence Pricilla’s siding with her and spouting his own particular brand of homophobia, bigotry and censorship under the banner of protecting someone from being harrassed. How very noble and christer-sounding.

    To TrumpetBlower, I say, go back to Canuckistan and MYOFB.

    We got along very well without you and we’ll get along very well long you’re gone.

    Oh, and…Door. Hit. Ass.

  • strumpetwindsock

    @Bill Perdue:

    So let me get this straight:

    You want to hold me responsible for other peoples’ comments which I have never even read?
    Since I have read her posts I have seen nothing like that, and it doesn’t matter. Other people’s actions don’t make you any less responsible for the things you do. That is just a poor attempt at a distraction.

    Even if someone DOES write someting hateful about you – you call them on it and if it is bad enough report it to admin. You don’t resort to the kind of insults I have read here.

    You boys are both adults, I presume. Act like it.

    And I have had some false accusations levelled at me but I never guessed someone like you would nail it bang on with no evidence whatsoever.
    I am soooo Puritanical when it comes to GLBT sex. I don’t know what makes me hotter – those commanding little hats, the silver shoe buckles or the tight little black pants with the knee socks.

  • Bill Perdue

    It’s the hats, and it’s not hotter, it’s sillier.

  • Charles J. Mueller


    “Since I have read her posts I have seen nothing like that”

    Hear no evil.

    See no evil.

    But, spout lots of it!

  • strumpetwindsock

    @Charles J. Mueller:
    Oh honey, being a tease is only going to make me want to stay a little longer.

    You super patriots can be so
    passionate when the honour of your country is threatened.

  • Bill Perdue

    You want to hold me responsible for other peoples’ comments which I have never even read? Since you admit to being clueless, even though you should have see getevenwithgaymens laughing insults about abused children and her racist baiting, I have to ask again.

    Why are you involved if you’re so clueless?

    Why do you think her vile attacks on gay men and her putrid dismissal of the pain inflicted by priests and pastors of getevenwithgaymens religion are OK if you’re so clueless?

    What’s your game?

    @strumpetwindsock: Why are you so clueless? It must be those silly little hats you people wear. Cotton Mathers was so tight he died of constipation.

    If you don’t answer those questions we’ll simply dismiss you as someone with a very dubious agenda.

  • Charles J. Mueller

    @Bill Perdue:

    “so you have no call to lecture me.”

    Umm…who’s been doing the lecturing here?, Mr. BusyBody?

    You shoved your nose into a dialogue that had absolutely nothing to do with you.

    I did that once, when I was a kid. I got my nose bloodied and told to stay out of other people’s business.

    I’ve followed that advice every since. A pity that some people can’t seem to wrap their heads around that idea.

  • strumpetwindsock

    Actually Charles, you invited us all over here to see what was happening to getreal:
    I had read this story already and only checked back after reading your post in the Renfroe thread. Otherwise I would not have read your conversation at all.

    You are wrong about me not having any right to step in; this is a public forum, and if I see something here which I think goes against the site’s submissions policy I have every right to say something and to report it.

    You know what boys, I’d love to stick around under the scary hot lights for your bad cop/bad cop routine …but I don’t have to.

    Plus humour obviously has no effect on you guys whatsoever.

    I’m sure we’ll be talking again tomorrow morning.

  • Charles J. Mueller


    Hi Vernon,

    I am exceedingly pleased to learn that you understood my comment as I had intended to be meant, rather than the the way I accidentally posted it. I generally try to reread and edit my commentaries before posting them, but like you, when it is late and I am tired, sometimes typos and omissions get past me as this one did.

    As Alexander Pope so well said “To err is human; to forgive, devine.”

    You commented that you come from a family that is heavily comprised of people who are constantly feuding with someone, within the family or not, over petty issues.

    I can relate to that very well on my mother’s side of the family. My mother was a very high-strung woman, devoutly Catholic (and pushy about it). I suspect that it was the main reason why my father ran away from home when I was just five.

    My grandmother was a dominatrix in every sense of the word, sans any leather fetish gear or a cat-of-nine tails. She didn’t one. Her tongue, as well as my mother’s, was enough. Grandpa, my Uncle John and I were often the brunt of tongue-lashings. Grandpa and Uncle John could leave the house or go tie one on at the local bar. At my tender age, I could do neither and had to bear the brunt of the verbal abuse.

    I can definitely say, that both of these women made me extremely intolerant to religious dogma and proselytizing and probably accounts for much of my unpleasant reactions to Getreal. This is no way an apology nor is it offered as one. It is merely an explanation of how she grates on me as did my grandma and mother.

    I would have to say that my views toward the Universe are much the same as those you stated. I was, for a period of time, quite into metaphysics and read a great deal on the subject.

    The Wickan rede “‘Do as you wish as long as you harm none’, is a concept that I can wrap my head around. I cannot imagine you or I ever being at odds about religion because you do not lecture me about your beliefs and I would never take it upon myself to lecture you about mine.

    I liked your comments about stepping back and letting things play out if they do not concern you personally. That is very admirable and especially appreciated in an age when so many people seem to think that everyone else’s business is their business. Prop.8 is a good case in point.

    I have absolutely no problem with you having an affection for Getreal as well as myself. I am not looking to garner votes and I have absolutely no desire to drag you into an argument that was not of your making. I think it is very admirable of you to take the position of not choosing sides. I respect you for that. As you said, it’s between her and I.

    Funny that you should mention hating grocery shopping. I feel very much the same about that as you do. And that is true for most other domestic chores as well.

    I do rather enjoy shopping for home furnishings, antiques, art, bric-a-brac and things of that nature and find it to be much more satisfying. One can stand back and admire the transformation that has taken place with a given purchase and take a sense of pride from it.

    Guess I am just a frustrated home decorator. lol

    As always, I look forward to your postings. I hope you and yours are enjoying a restful night.

  • Charles J. Mueller


    “You are wrong about me not having any right to step in; this is a public forum.”

    Actually, only the latter half of that statement is correct.

    You are not the town traffic cop and I don’t see any tin badge pinned to your nipple.

  • Bill Perdue

    @Charles J. Mueller: Charles, I forgot.

    Am I the good cop or the bad cop this coming week? I lost my secret copy of the Secret Gay Agenda for the first week of March and I don’t know what to do. Please reply via the usual secret channels.

    Signed X-12 – Secret Agent of the anti-christer Gay Mafia.

  • getreal

    The attacks are never going to end it is ridiculous.I’m not going to fight it bigots will always have a million different reason why “this time” it is acceptable to hate someone and if that person isn’t doing anything they will invent it. If Charles and Bill want to attack people let them as they have shown they will attack anyone who however rationally and calmly contradicts them in any way.

    To address a few points: the Jossip thread had nothing whatsoever to do with the politics of the new head of the Republican party just the fact that they were calling a black man white simply because he was a conservative which I felt was crass. His homophobia was not the issue being debated. And since I have never met this man I can’t see how any stretch of your imagination I am responsible for his views.

    As far as the pederast comment a few weeks back there was a morning goods model who was underage (17) and if you had read the whole thread about 70% of the posters simply said it was creepy and he looked too young a poster said everyone 16 and over was fair game and I said I felt that was borderline pedophilia. I have a right to my opinion I simply don’t believe as an adult in having sex with teenagers it is not a particularly controversial point of view a common one I would think.

    I never called Bill racist I just didn’t and everyone can see that I drew an analogy between racism and another form of bigotry. I very explicitly stated my point that it was an analogy. I get it I’m a christian so you think i’m Hitler because of the emotional baggage in your own life. Because someone’s mother died or because people kept yu from your husband or because Mormons or whatever BS rationalization you have for picking on complete strangers who have done you no harm.

    It is gratifying to know that there are people on this site who will intervene when they see someone getting picked on.It is very important for some people to hate people they often have built their whole personalities on it. I read something once and i’m quoting it badly “hatred is like acid it corrodes what contains it” God Bless.

  • getreal

    @Sebbe: @Sebbe: @strumpetwindsock: @RichardR: @vernonvanderbilt:

    I one want to thank you for taking the time to be so kind to other posters myself included. We underestimate the power of such gestures. It was also gratifying to see you take issue with certain posts without getting personal with the poster or rude or hurtful. I think this thread is almost a perfect illustration of the difference between constructive and destructive dissent. Thanks for sticking up for me you did not have to do it and it was a reminder that in a way we are a community on this site. And i think tonight members of the community made clear that personal attacks are unacceptable and whatever our difference we have to treat others with a modicum of respect. God Bless.

  • getreal

    @strumpetwindsock: I’m so sorry you had to take so much heat for sticking up for me. It is very clear from your posts that you are a good person (I know they will make vicious comments because I wrote that but oh well) and I should learn to handle situations like this with as much grace as you displayed.

  • Charles J. Mueller

    @Bill Perdue:

    No problem, X-12. You are the top honcho this week (good cop) and I am the bad dog (bad cop).

    I just happen to have an extra secret copy of the Secret Gay Agenda, on tape, for the first week of March in my Top Secret File.

    I am sending it through the usual secret channels. Use the secret de-coding process you memorized at headquarters.

    The purpose of your mission, should you decide to accept it, will be to..oops, no. I can’t tell you that. It’s secret. It’s all on the tape.

    This tape will self-destruct in five five minutes after playing it back.

    Signed: Agent Eci-dos – of the anti-christer, Spanish, Gay Mafia.

    Signed X-12 – Secret Agent of the anti-christer Gay Mafia.

  • Charles J. Mueller

    Oh…the drama! *Back of hand pressed against temple*

    Though I Walk Through The Valley Of The Shadow Of Death.

    Yeah though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death
    I shall fear no evil
    For thou art my tarnished nemesis
    The one who pissed on my soul

    You took my hand and offered me the strength of your protection. Then I supported you through the darkness of night and the shadows of dawn. I held you up when I was tired and carried your load with my own.

    Yeah though I walk over littered shards of broken glass,
    I shall fear no feeling of pain
    For thou art my fallen angel
    The one who chewed out my heart

    You wiped away my salted tears, and promised I’d never know sorrow. Then I rocked your body as you sobbed until dry, and stroked the sweat from your dampened hair
    I drowned in your heartbreak, I cared.

    Yeah though I waltz with the demons of hell
    I shall fear no taint on my spirit
    For though art my evil oppressor
    The one who gouged out my eye.

    You told me you’d love me as I yearned to be loved. Then I gave you my all for forever. I fought with your fears and drove them away. I bore all your need and I loved.

    Yeah though I walk through the streets of depression, through the alley’s of desperation and along the paths of loneliness. Though I traipse up the hills of despair on the pavements of pain and down the hills of regret.

    I shall fear nothing.

    For although you are gone

    I am stronger.

  • getreal

    To take the conversation in a complete different direction. This has been a productive dialogue and a wonderful lesson in humility. We talk so often on this site about bigotry but we concentrate on homophobia. I think this dialogue shows that there are many kinds of bigotry and they are all ugly.Even that some bigots don’t even know they are bigots but think they are righteous. Reading all the different posts has made me ruminating on the right wing christian fundamentalists who I have always arrogantly assumed deep, deep down knew their prejudice and hateful words and actions were wrong. I had an epiphany after reading all the posts in one sitting (it will probably sound very trite) that most of us even bigots and the hateful truly feel that we are doing right even if we are doing wrong. I guess none of us are the villains in the movie that is our life. I had always believed patience and tolerance and good works would defeat the homophobes it eventually worked in the civil rights movement(not that there is not a lot of work still to be done). As several people showed tonight there are people who will stand up in the face of perceived injustice. I guess my question is how can we defeat these people if they don’t know they are bigoted? How can the seekers of equality for all Americans reach those who feel completely justified demonizing someone’s very existence.I read somewhere that every person placed in your path is there to even in the most infantisimal way there to tach you or learn from you. So this exchange no matter how ugly it was for some and how entertaining it clearly was for others was a lesson.What can we do to combat/reach/defeat the bigoted fundamentalists if they don’t even know they are being hateful? As this thread illustrated some people are blissfully unaware of the inherent wrongness of bigotry (and it doesn’t matter who it is against it is always wrong)how do we as activists and supporters of equality address these people in a constructive way. And are some people hopelessly bigoted and incapable of change? These are not rhetorical questions. There are a lot of good minds on this site. I have a nagging feeling there is a lesson in all this.I welcome any constructive answers that anyone has to offer.

  • Charles J. Mueller


    “The attacks are never going to end it is ridiculous.”

    By Jove…I think she’s got it. As long as a straight lady comes onto a gay blog site and call the posters “bigots” and “Racists”, pedophiles and makes homophobic comments about our own, she is gonna hear about it.

    “His (Michael Steele’s)homophobia was not the issue being debated.”

    But it was, Blanche. It was. It was the whole reason why Queerty posted it as a thread heading. And, as is your usual custom, when you are backed into a corner, you never did address the difference in your purported quotations between the two threads that I brought to your attention in my post No. 68 and where you blamed others for making a comment that you, yourself made, in actuality. You are a manipulator of the truth, which seems to be a common trait that many of your christers seem to share in common.

    Re: Your pederast comment:

    “I said I felt that was borderline pedophilia. I have a right to my opinion I simply don’t believe as an adult in having sex with teenagers it is not a particularly controversial point of view a common one I would think.”

    Controversial only in sexually hung-up, fundamentalist Ameerica. In many parts of the world, you will find that the age runs the gamut from 12 to 18 years. In fact, there are quite a number of States within the US that the age of consent is 16.

    So, your moral outrage and sexual mores are based purely on your Christian views concerning sex, which as we all know, are absurd, totally out of date and out of touch with reality, just like your “sexual abstinence – no condoms” spewing, ignorant and idiotic Pope.

    “I never called Bill racist I just didn’t”

    Liar, liar, pants on fire! Sorry. No wiggle room there, sister.

    Analogy, my ass. You deliberately removed the word christer and replaced it with the word “nigger”, which was the exact term YOU used, not Bill. he never once mentioned that word until you introduced it into the dialgue, you character assasin.

    I did a Google search that revealed numerous usages of the word “christer” to describe Christians. No where on Google, did I see an analogy to the word you tried, unsuccessfully, to compare it to. I submit that you are a disingenuous liar, as well as a shit-stirrer.

    And in case you missed it the first time around, here again is the Oxford American dictionary definition of the word “christer”.

    Christer |?kr?st?r|

    noun informal

    a sanctimonious or ostentatiously pious Christian.

    Now please show us where this definition makes an analogy to “nigger”, the word that you used in order to heinously defame Bill and set him up as a racist?

    You are damaged goods, lady. And, you are in here trying to damage us as well.

    If indeed, you really believed that you were simply making an analogy, then pray tell me, where was all the moral outrage coming from concerning the analogy comparing Michael Steele to a white man? If those comments were simply an analogy, then why was wrong for “others” to make that comparison, but right for you to make such analogy with Bill?

    You speak with forked-tongue, lady.

    “Because someone’s mother died or because people kept you from your husband or because Mormons or whatever BS rationalization you have for picking on complete strangers who have done you no harm.”

    “Complete strangers that have done us no harm???”

    Now, you are beginning to sound like that deranged Catholic lunatic, Bishop Richard Williamson who denied the Holocaust. Not only has he pissed off the Holy See…Germany, and the Jews, are going to fry his ass but good, when they get their hands on that mental defective.

    And quite frankly, sweetheart, you are beginning to piss us off too with your rigid, bull-headed and unceasing protective stance for the very people who stole our civil-rights away from us. Those of us who are forced to remain separated from our families are sick and tired of your unctious, smarmy platitudes that incense us so much, that we want to come after you with a club and beat some sense into that thick, Christian skull of yours.

    What suffering do you undergo as a result of those evil bastards who voted our rights away, I ask?

    Are you separated from your life partner by some 9,000 plus miles of ocean and forced to cry yourself to sleep at night because some son-of-a-bitch in religious robes thinks that we are pedophiles like you accused one of ours to be, and people who practice incest and bestiality, simply because they would like to marry the person they love?

    Are you forced to send $1500. overseas every month, in these hard, economic times, to maintain a separate domicile just so you can spend a few months of each year with your family?

    Are you forced to pay an additional $500.00 a month for medical insurance for your bi-national partner because your government and christers believe we are second-class citizens who are undeserving of medical coverage for our partners?

    Are you forced to pay $350.00 a month to an overseas Medical Insurer because Medicare will not pay for my medical expenses once I leave American shore?

    Are obliged to put $25,000. into a special fund in the event that a catastrophic medical emergency overtakes this 72 year old man, requiring being airlifted back to the US? In certain cases, the cost of a medical airlift can exceed even the $25,000.00.

    Do you have any idea of the complexity and legal costs of setting up a Revokable Trust Fund to protect my family in the event of my demise and see to it that he is not thrown out of our home for lack of money to keep it up after I am gone?

    And how much fucking money did you contribute to NO on Prop. 8, lady? How fucking dare you belittle me by suggesting that I sat on my fucking ass while you were out there doing all the dirty work for a worthless, ungrateful POS like me. Just who the fuck do you think you are, bitch?

    Don’t you dare to presume to tell us to respect your idiotic beliefs, drummed into your head by an evil organization that has caused nothing but grief to LGBT people for thousands of years.

    I absolutely refuse to respect or tolerate any religious organization who condemns me to hellfire and brimstone for eternity for a mere accident of birth and who is trying to take away whatever few rights I do have as a gay man while on this earth.

    I’m a tax-paying American citizen who paid my dues, lady, both in taxes and as a political activist since Stonewall back in 1969, and I do not have to take any shit from the likes a young snot-nosed, gooddy-goody, two-shoes like you who wants to come in her and fuck with us queers and play with our heads. You’ve got a lot to learn, missy.

    And I will not turn the other cheek and allow religious zealots like you to continue slapping me in the face. And if you don’t like that, you are free to leave these boards. No one invited you here, you know? You came of your own free will.

    This is not the Vatican.

    This is not a Catholic Church.

    And this is not a religious forum to be used by people like you to hustle and foster your religious beliefs on anyone on these boards and make other gays in here look like ogres, which is precisely what you have been doing. You may have a few well-meaning folks fooled, but you are not pulling the wool over those of us who deal in reality instead of fairy tales and mystical bullshit.

    In case you have not noticed, Queerty hangs out the three no-no’s daily that people “shouldn’t talk about”, Sex, Politics and Religion, and invites everyone; people of faith, Agnostics, non-believers, Atheists, gays, straights, blacks and white, alike to participate and state their views as long as no one is threated with harm and no one is called names.

    You have been called a Christer. That’s not name-calling. That’s what you are. What part of that don’t you like? And if there is something about that name that bothers you, then take it up with the Holy See, not us, lady.

    We gays reclaimed the term “queer” and we are proud to be queer. You got a problem with being a christer, then quit the Christian religion. That will solve your apparent problem

    How do you get off throwing the “nigger” word around in a gay chat room, for whatever purposes you deem it ok, and calling us racists, when you should know, damned well as a person of color yourself, that this is a term that is NOT tolerated even by your own community?

    And just where the fuck do you get off coming into a gay blog site for the express purpose of heckling, climbing on people’s backs, making bigoted comments, calling people names and throwing racial slurs about and then crying “wolf” when someone says “Whoa…stop right there lady”.

    “hatred is like acid it corrodes what contains it”

    The only thing corrosive on these threads is you, lady. Since your arrival here, along with a few other christers who like to lay their shit on gays, this place has been turned into a hornet’s nest. You, JJ and First have managed to divide everyone in these thread to the point that we are all snarling at each other like mad dogs.

    Why don’t you take your “Bod Bless’s” and stick them where the sun does not shine and just get the hell out of here, if you are so unhappy? Are you some kind of masochist that like getting shit on as you claim we are doing to you? Go play your martyr role in some Christian room where they will applaud you.

    You are not an ally. You are the enemy, in sheep’s clothing. A Trojan Horse waiting for nightfall, so you can open the gates to let more of the enemy in.

    Go. Go, Please. We don’t need or want your fucking blessings. You can stick them where the sun doesn’t shine.

    We can bless ourselves, thank you very much.

    So, in closing, flag this, Strumpetwindsock, because I want definitely Japhy to see what I wrote.

    It’s high time that he seems who the real trouble maker is here. And, it is not Bill and I.

    This is our room, not yours…and we want it back so we can have a little peace and quiet again.

  • Bill Perdue

    @Charles J. Mueller: Damn, Charles! Just promise me one thing, if I get charged with some crime I hope you’re not the prosecuting attorney.

  • getreal

    I will continue to be another perspective on this site. I really would like constructive answers to the questions I posed there are a lot of thoughtful people who may have insights about how we can use what happened on this thread to deepen our understanding of those who support ant-gay legislation. How can we use their bigotry to reach or defeat them? And how their motivations (abuse, deprivation of love or loved ones, or simple anger that needs to be released on someone) can be used to unlock strategies to combat our enemies or opponents which is probably a more human word. I think it is important to remember these comments threads are for us to spread ideas and hear different points of view. LGBT people have suffered so much intimidation, oppression and horror from bigots through the millennia that perhaps in some weird way it is a testament to the progress of the past thirty years that there are spaces in the world and online where where an oppressed minority is in a position of majority where discriminating against others is even possible (a silver lining perhaps). These posts have raised so many fascinating questions about bigotry. Does bigotry have a purpose? Is it there to force us to confront and thus be better people? I wish Queerty would write an article about it.

    (“This is our room, not yours…and we want it back so we can have a little peace and quiet again.”) He just can’t help it no doubt someone in his past said words like that to him. He has a right to his opinion and my opinion is this site belongs to anyone who wants to read it.

    God Bless

  • Charles J. Mueller

    Oh, Lord. This is getting to be too fucking much.

    Now getevenwithsomegays has gone into “Pollyanna” mode. Like Sister Maria in the Sound of Music, she’s had an “epiphany”. She’s seen the light and found out who the “bad cops” are.

    “Even that some bigots don’t even know they are bigots but think they are righteous”.

    Notice that she names no exterior forces at work, the allusion being that the bigots are in our midst and that we need look no further than that.

    With hands dutifully clasped together and looking up at the heavenly father imploringly, she asks for guidance on how to defeat the bigots she has “rousted” from these boards. Like Jedgar, the Pinko Commie seeker in the habit of a nun, she is on a God-driven, search and destroy mission…right here in River City, folks.

    “As several people showed tonight there are people who will stand up in the face of perceived injustice. I guess my question is how can we defeat these people if they don’t know they are bigoted?”

    Ooohhh…how splendidly her christer gaydar is performing. Rather than attacking the Pat Robertsons, the Falwells, the Dally Kerns, the Dobsons, The Fred Phelps’, the Donnie McClurkins, the Rick Warrens and the Michael Steele’s of the world, whom she never mentions by name, and who ARE the real bigots and who ARE out to get our gay asses and are doing everything in their power to marginalize, hell, eradicate us, getparaoid has just revealed to us that the real “enemy” is among us.

    After having emptied her hold of torpedoes on the ships in the harbor the other night and leaving behind total devastation, our paranoid heroine, delicately tip toes over the debris and flotsam she created, and now assumes the mantle of the sweet, demure, flower of God and the goodness and light image of a Mary Magdalane with the radiance of god-light shining down on her imbued being.

    Her search and destroy mission completed, she emerges from the carnage with a god-like radiance that bespeaks her having confronted the devil, face-to-face, and is now trolling the blogs for votes of support to “defeat” the bigots she has uncovered among us.

    Why am I reminded of a similar speech Mr. Bush delivered a few years back about a country with weapons of mass destruction, aimed at our very heads?

    Like Mr. Bush, she now delivers more justification for her war-mongering.

    “As this thread illustrated some people are blissfully unaware of the inherent wrongness of bigotry (and it doesn’t matter who it is against it is always wrong)how do we as activists and supporters of equality address these people in a constructive way.”

    Think Mary Noble Backstage Wife.

    “There are a lot of good minds on this site. I welcome any constructive answers that anyone has to offer.”

    Butter them up good so the mindless gnomes will vote for her.

    Stef…are you listening?

    You might want to consider putting a pillow on your computer desk before you commence slamming you head on it again.

    “How can the seekers of equality (Getreal) for all Americans reach those (Bill and me) who feel completely justified demonizing someone’s very existence.”

    Flag wrapped around her, how much more patriotic can we get?

    Never mind that she had demonized the very people to whom this site was dedicated. Like the christers who voted away our rights in California, Getreal is now asking y’all to dig deep to rout the bigots on these boards, who do not know they are bigots, so the world will be a better place for all Americans.

    I don’t believe this bitch? She is more devious that the Mormons and the Church in California. If I had not seen this with my own eyes, I would be promoted to say to anyone who told me about this, “You gotta be bullshitting me”.

    And People like Sally Kern say that we gays are “infiltrating” the government?

  • getreal

    Anyone who can read can clearly see in black and white that that the posts was about anti-gay legislation bigots and how to defeat them. It is right there in black and white.

    If anyone here doesn’t like my posts no one is forcing you to read them.

    So ONCE AGAIN I am changing the subject to a constructive vein. What can we learn from bigotry? How can what we have learned be used effectively against the right wing christian fundamentalists?

  • itsnotme

    thanks goodness that we dont have these type of groups in australia. Well we do . But their not as crazy as these types and full on homophobic. But their still homophobic.

  • Charles J. Mueller

    @Bill Perdue:

    I’m sorry, Bill, but this vile and reprehensible woman is really pissing me off with her putrid, potty-mouth.

    No matter what you say to her, she just keeps coming back like the stupid battery-operated toys in the Duracell ads.

    She is so dense and religiously brain-washed, that one cannot even insult her. She knows perfectly well what she is doing and that is precisely why she is here.

    This woman is devious and her whole purpose for being here is to disrupt Queerty and sabatoge it while pretending to be our “deliverer”.

    Someone get me a fucking Alka-Selter, please I have a splitting headache from feeding that troll. I have often heard it said that you cannot win an argument with christers. I just learned it the hard way.

    I come to gay site so I can chat and exchange ideas with like-minded LGBT people. Why must we always end-up having to defend ourselves from homophobes and shit-stirrers like her, JJ and First?

    And why is Queerty allowing it to happen? Don’t they realize that the very people who come here and read their ads, are the ones who keep them in business? This troll is destroying their readership base and it doesn’t seem to bother them in the least.

    That thunking sound you hear, is me slamming my head on my computer desk.

  • getreal

    If anyone here doesn’t like my posts no one is forcing you to read them.

    So ONCE AGAIN I am changing the subject to a constructive vein. What can we learn from bigotry? How can what we have learned be used effectively against the right wing christian fundamentalists?

  • Charles J. Mueller

    “If anyone here doesn’t like my posts no one is forcing you to read them.”

    A veritable paragon of sagacity.


  • Bill Perdue

    @getreal: @getreal: If anyone here doesn’t like my posts no one is forcing you to read them.

    Sure we do. If the voices tell you you’re being martyred we have to check and see what names you’re calling who. Pedophile. Racist. Fundamentalist. Bigot. Why haven’t we heard immigrant basher, anti-Semite or misogynist, and baby seal killer. Maybe they’re being held in reserve along with blasphemer and satanist.

    And to answer you question “ What can we learn from bigotry? the answer is that it’s practiced by straight christers. They claim that we’re pedophiles and jebuz bashers. Sound familiar?

    How can what we have learned be used effectively against the right wing christian fundamentalists? see comments 88, 91 and 94.

  • getreal

    I have been affiliated with a group that does speaking tours at places of worship on the subject of marriage equality specifically why as people of faith we have an obligation to vigorously champion the side of righteousness (which obviously is equal rights for all Americans) we have never been challenged but have always been treated with respect and almost always been welcomed and thanked by that silent majority that feel at least a little bit uneasy about the persecution of LGBT people almost exclusively by people of faith. How can the principles of faith be used to make fundamentalists see the error of their ways? A brighter mind than mine could probably figure it out.

  • Charles J. Mueller

    @Bill Perdue:

    Good morning, Agent X-10. This is Agent Eci-dos in Madrid.

    I am assuming that you received the Top Secret Gay Agenda Documents you requested last evening? I sent them via the secret channels as you requested.

    I have been up all night doing battle with the dragon-lady.

    My shift has ended.

    Will you be handling the day shift?

    Agent Eci-Dos – Madrid

  • getreal

    The important thing as this Dobson gentleman exits perhaps there is even a tiny chance that the person who replaces him may be more tolerant.

  • strumpetwindsock

    @getreal: Given the purpose of the organization that is simply not going to happen – ever. Can you imagine a kinder, gentler Ku Klux Klan?

    If they were a bit more honest they would not be calling themselves “Focus on the Family”, but rather “Focus on Fucking up Everyone we Hate”

  • getreal

    @strumpetwindsock: I agree but anything is possible. can you imagine the general public of 50 years ago seeing the state of society now they would be astounded.

  • getreal

    For those on this thread who took issue with the personal attacks yesterday on this thread I emailed the link of the whole dialogue to Queerty and Japhy laid down the law on another thread that from now on Queerty will not tolerate personal attacks and ban people who make them. So YAY! Queerty for insuring this is a safe space for everyone to express themselves.

  • Greg

    @Fr. Bernie: Fr. Bernie, So God gets “hurt” and “displeased”?What does He do when He’s displeased? When He’s hurt? You’ve said He’s incapable of hating anything. So He’s limited? He has a code of justice yet only emotionally responds to transgressions of His code? If I have displeased Him by failing to love God or love others, what is He going to do about it? How will I know if I have appropriately and completely loved God? What are the benefits of His pleasure and the consequences of His displeasure? What does He expect? What does “love” mean to Him as opposed to what it means to us humans? If I have hurt Him(I assume you mean emotional harm)how can I repair the emotional harm I have caused Him?

    I know these questions seem rhetorical, but really, if we believe in God, it only makes sense to try and find out what and who God is, in essence, in attributes, character, motivation, power, and find out what and who we are in nature and essence in comparison, understand how God views us, and see if we may in fact have any interaction with this God who created us.

    If we reject the authority of the Bible as an effective teacher of truth, however incomplete our understanding may be as we search for answers, then we turn to nothing more than imagination, fables, emotion, self analysis, and guesswork to search for answers. Hardly a responsible response for our belief in God. If you were willing, we could read many passages, in context, which would explain what it is that God hates(Proverbs 6:16-19 to start with). We could go on and read together Psalm 19 and discover that God’s “law” doesn’t harm us, but saves us. We could start with John 15:9-14 to answer my question about what kind of love Christ was talking about. I’m a layperson, not teacher or a pastor. I don’t have all the answers, but I have found scriptures which directly address my other questions and form a foundation from which to discuss these things. Learning is a lifelong process.
    Suffice it to say that gay or straight, we need to have answers to the above questions. God loves us. He has rules. We’ve all broken them. I’ll speak for me…I have. He is “displeased”. There is only one way He’ll forgive us and at the same time be satisfied that justice was served for our crimes. Christ took our punishment. We must believe on Him. This is God’s way. He made us. He makes the rules. He loves us.

  • strumpetwindsock

    Greg, I agree with you that we have to have a moral code. But you can figure out how to be decent human beings without getting it from the Bible. We do all have an inner moral compass, and if one is not a psychopath, we tend to have a pretty good idea what is right and what is wrong.
    Not to say that all religion is bad, but some people do manage to figure it out without Christianity or any religion at all.

  • Charles J. Mueller


    Hear. Hear. Well said.

    On that point, we see eyeball to eyeball.

  • getreal

    @strumpetwindsock: I agree and there is a place for everyone whatever their beliefs. I think the important thing is to show as much tolerance as you want for yourself.

  • Greg

    @strumpetwindsock: See how much agreement we are finding? This isn’t so bad, huh? More questions…You likened your own inner moral sense to a compass. A compass always points north, doesn’t it? Just follow your compass and you’ll get there, right? No! Unfortunately, the compass orients you to magnetic north, which varies from true north on a map depending on where in the world you are as you “read” your compass. To really get where you need to go, you need a compass, plus a map, and knowledge of how to reconcile the difference between the north you read on your compass and true geographical north. So to complete your analogy, if your compass is your innate sense of right and wrong, what would your map be, how would you acquire the knowledge necessary to reconcile the difference between what you read on your compass and what is true on the “map”? Make sure to understand correctly where you are at in the world as you make these important spiritual calculations.

  • Charles J. Mueller


    Sorry, Greg. Don’t mean to be jumping into a discussion that wasn’t aimed specifically at me, but I have to say that your comment No. 109 is nothing but an exercise in word-play.

    Like comparing apples to oranges.

    All you are doing here, is setting a trap in the hope that strumpetwindsock will fall into it and become entangled.

    All you are doing here, is attempting to stage a sparring match, in your own arena, in your own boxing ring and with the referee and bell rigged to your own advantage.

    A common ploy among peddlers of the Bible.

    Sorry, dude. You’ll have to do better than that.

    You’re just jerking us off without allowing us to have an orgasm.

  • Charles J. Mueller


    Oh…and one other thing?

    When did become a pulpit from which to spew your religious views and hawk the bible to us?

    If, indeed, Japhy would like for this site to become TGLFFGA (The Guilding Light For Fairies Gone Astray), which somehow I highly doubt, I am certain that he would want to encourage tofile for a tax exemption that TGLFFGA is rightfully entitled to.

  • getreal

    @Charles J. Mueller: Don’t bother taking it personally this man uses these threads to work out his personal problems on people who dare to believe differently. He does not want to dialogue he wants to attack. I would advise you to read all the above comments before you respond because you are guilty just by being you ( a Christian) and no rational or respectful answer will avoid a vicious and escalating attack.

  • getreal

    @getreal: That was not meant to be point to Charles but to greg

  • getreal

    @Greg:Don’t bother taking it personally this man uses these threads to work out his personal problems on people who dare to believe differently. He does not want to dialogue he wants to attack. I would advise you to read all the above comments before you respond because you are guilty just by being you ( a Christian) and no rational or respectful answer will avoid a vicious and escalating attack.

  • Tim in SF

    @Charles J. Mueller: Hi Chuck.

    Why are you wasting your time debating religion with believers? They are not arguing from the logical part of their brain. They start out with a conclusion first and work their way backwards from there, keeping every fact that fits and discarding those that don’t. They’ve traded their ability to think rationally for a musty-dusty tome of fairy tails that they somehow conflate with moral relevance.

    It’s a global study in rationalization and would be interesting if it weren’t so tragic.

    You’re never going to make any headway, Chuck. Let them worship their sky-god in peace. Give up.

  • getreal

    Yes let us worship our sky god in peace and let’s get to the important business of attaining and maintaining equal rights for all Americans.

  • vernonvanderbilt

    @Greg: I know the comment wasn’t pointed in my direction, but I have what I believe are some good answers to the questions you posed to strumpetwindsock.

    The compass, as has been established, is one’s innate sense of right and wrong. The map you mention could easily be a metaphor for social convention. The way you learn to reconcile the two is simple: life experience. There’s the non-religious answer.

    I know what sort of answer you want, but I have to tell you that there are several, and none can claim that it is the only 100% correct one.

  • Charles J. Mueller

    @Tim in SF:

    Hi Tim. You know, I’ve been sitting here asking myself the very same question. Old habits die hard, I guess.

    Seriously, however, everything you say is true. And to be honest with you, I am tired of banging my head on a wall.

    It give you such a headache! lol

    In a very real sense, giving up, is actually winning.

    The less attention people pay to them, the less relevance anything they have to say has.

    Thanks for the hint, good buddy. Have a great evening.

  • anderson cooper is my future husband


    You are a class act we are lucky to have allies like you

  • Bill Perdue

    @Tim in SF: Sometimes it’s fun to point out how clueless christers and islamists are even if it is ridiculously easy.

    I think what Charles and others were doing here is not so much that as to try to put a lid on the christers attempts to portray gay men as pederasts. We haven’t quite succeeded.

    That effort won’t stop.

    It’s seems clear that one or another christer cult has assigned a missionary or two try to convert us heathens, and they’ve succeeded in attracting a few. I count three reborns at present. That’s to be expected in a society where the pressure to renounce sanity and our innate genetic gifts can produce grotesqueries like ex-gays.

  • happy2bherre

    As I logged into this site for the first time I was shocked to read the anger and venom spurted in personal attacks. I thought this was the place to learn how to help an injust law get kicked into the dust. I think the name calling must stop, personal feelings must be set aside to focus on equal rights for everyone and allow allof us the chance to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness=love whom you wish and share that love with them 4 everyone and most importantly have that love free from state interference. No government entity should have the right to say how or whom you should be able to commit to.

  • getreal

    No here wants to convert anyone unlike you I respect others right to think however they want. You are the one constantly trying to convert people to YOUR way of thinking

  • getreal

    The only person who was ever called a pederast was someone defending sleeping with underage boys 12-16. Anyone include the cops would call that pedophilia

  • getreal

    The Gay rights movement belongs to everyone now not just atheists. There are a lot of us who have committed to this and MORE ARE JOINING EVERYDAY. So get used to it. If you don’t like us stop obsessively attacking us. It is turning people off. See people here believe in equality. Even for christers. Oh and the missionary thing what is it 1890 as always you sound unhappy and unfulfilled. Spend some time doing good and working on the movement then you would be happier

  • getreal

    @happy2bherre: Please do not judge this site based on this thread we have a few lonely bitter senior citizens and instead of using the site to promote activism or equality they use it to get attention by being controversial and attacking people who’s backgrounds they feel are unacceptable read other threads there are great articles and lots of pictures of hot guys(if that’s what you are into)

  • Charles J. Mueller


    Oh, go right on a head and judge it.

    It’s your right as an American Citizen. Free speech, you know?

    And, pay no mind to the Wal Mart welcomer, the resident Canadian Judge and the institutionalized stalker.

    This too, shall pass. ;-)

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