“Homophobia is rampant in the African-American community, and men are on the DL. They don’t come out [and] they’re killing our women,” Lee Daniels told critics at the Television Critics Association winter previews on Saturday. “I wanted to blow the lid off of it, and of homophobia, in our community.”
Daniels was speaking about his new show Empire, which features a gay character named Jamal (played by Jussie Smollett) whose father Lucious Lyon (played by Terrence Howard) struggles with accepting his son’s sexuality.
Daniels says that the character of Lucious is partially based on his own father. When he was a boy, Daniels’ father beat him up after walking in on his young son dressed in a pair of his mother’s red pumps.
“What we’re doing is telling a little bit of the story of Lee growing up in that way,” Howard added during the panel discussion, “but it’s really a bigger part of what’s happening throughout the entire world.”
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He went on to say that the show aims to tackle the issue of homophobia in the black community by offering certain viewers “an opportunity to see what they’re doing is painful. It’s crushing someone that could be beautiful.”
“[Homophobia] is so real and it is happening to so many people, has happened to so many people,” Smollett said.
One of the scenes in the pilot episode is particularly disturbing. It shows Lucious take his 4-year-old son outside and throw him in a trash can after walking in on him wearing his mother’s underwear. The scene is inspired by the event from Daniels’ childhood.
“When Lee had me take that kid down the stairs and put him in the trash can, it was with no apologies associated with it, because that’s what happened to him,” Howard explained. “The fact that he survived that is a beautiful thing.”
Empire is the only prime-time drama the featured a nearly all-black cast and was just renewed for a second season. The cast and producers say they are hopeful the show will start a trend both in the depiction of gay stories and black stories on television.
“What it shows is that people want to see people that look like them on television,” Smollett said. “They also want to see people that do not look like them on television. They want to see a representation of our world on television, and our world is not one color.”
h/t: TV Guide
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DDstar1me
Mr. Daniel’s, The Black community is still struggling with dark and light colors. So, you gon have to get in line honey. I’m still dealing with people who can’t stand the sight of my chocolate colored skin.
odawg
Continuing to refer to the “black community” is one of the problems. We don’t all think, look, or react in the same way. I am an out and proud gay man, and my niece is out to our “black” family. Why don’t we ever hear about these kinds of realities? Next, Mr. Daniels.
SonOfKings
Yes, thank goodness there are reformed Black people who are with the new age. It’s the old time Negros who won’t get with the program and fully accept our lifestyle. I’m a Black man who has been about this life for years, and I am comfortable in my way of living. Black church folks; not so much so.
Ogre Magi
the homophobia in the African American community is due to christianity (and islam to a smaller degree)
Cam
His new show is kicking ass in the ratings, and has the most sympathetic portrayal of a somewhat realistic gay character on TV. So it looks like more people are tuning in to the show than conventional wisdom would say should if there was rampant homophobia.
There is still acceptance to be gained, but shows like Empire with that character definitely help.
mikehipp
The black “community” – what a silly phrase – could solve its homophobia problem by forgoing religiosity. How deep is the Stockholm syndrome for a class of oppressed people to take up the religion of the oppressors, a religion who’s sacred book tells not only that slaves are an accepted part of life but even gives rules on how to conduct their servitude?
tdh1980
Once again with this false narrative of the wildly homophobic “black community,” the implication being that no other racial or ethnic group harbors as much intolerance for gays as we do. How about the majority white state legislatures across the country always looking to combat progress by passing anti-LGBT laws? Or the majority white fundamentalist Christian protesters seen at virtually every pro-LGBT function? Why are they never representative of the larger homophobic “white community”? Black people have been tuning in lately to watch “Scandal,” “How to Get Away with Murder,” and now “Empire,” all of which prominently feature gay characters with major story lines, yet we are to believe that none of them embrace any part of the queer community. Please.
Wagner Wallace
Black people are not monolithic – we don’t all think, look, and act the same.
I’m a gay black guy and my family is very supportive of me, and they love my boyfriend.
They also live in the bible belt South, and they’re very involved in the church.
But I guess if all you do is pay attention to misleading statistics, and your exposed to self-loathing, “white washed” blacks, you’d believe differently about us.
It would be like me watching a Westboro church rally, and thinking all whites hate gays…
And Lee Daniels needs to get it together. Love him as a director, this isnt the first time he’s said something ignorant.
Wagner Wallace
@tdh1980: Thank you! I agree with everything you have to say, per usual lol
Stevenw
“They don’t come out [and] they’re killing our women”
I do not understand this bit at all.
ac
Thank you Mr Daniels for using your platform to teach and make the masses reevaluate their stance on gay people. That is the point of this article and can’t see why other commenters can’t just celebrate that and be grateful. Ellen Degeneres made many people realize that you can be a good person and a lesbian and I’m sure put many mothers more at ease who were questioning the validity of their gay children, Modern family probably opened peoples minds too. And now Empire is doing the same thing and it is a big deal bc many shows or music that are aimed at or involve black characters don’t do this. And then u have multi millionaires like Tyler Perry stay in the closet and show negative images of gay people to keep his bank account flowing. Bravo to empire , bc no doubt some father is watching it and will think deeper when his son comes out and realize how barbaric homophobia is .
Curtispsf
I’m glad Empire is out there telling its story. I’m also glad that there are people watching it who are challenging the narrative, maybe helping to push boundaries. And to critics, I say: “If you’ve got a different story to tell, well then “go out there and tell it YOUR way.” There’s no monolithic “gay community, black community, white community” etc. The trouble is that when there’s a paucity of tales being told about some aspect of ANY community, there will always be those on the outside saying “hey that’s not all true…that’s not my story”. So I say, well go fill that vacuum and tell YOUR truth and YOUR story. Shine some light….
Milk
@Stevenw: He is referring to those black gay men on the down low. They lead a heterosexual lives on the front but having unsafe sex from homosexual encounter that spread AIDS to their wives. Yes there’s a lot of stereotype Lee Daniels is throwing shades at black men in one sentence.
Tackle
I co- sign with @odawg: @Wagner Wallace: as someone who is out to my Black family, there are no problems whatsoever, and I have never heard of what he speaks to.
Frankly I wish he would eat sh!t and die. I’m sick of this ugly ass bag mouthing off painting an entire community with a false brush. He’s taking his experience, that happened to him, and calming that’s how in entire community is. He’s a r@cist dream.
And who the hell is going to listen to some knee- gross who prefers and exclusively dates white men.
He’s been going around saying this same and simular sh!t for the past four yrs. How can someone sit and tell Black people who and what they should fully except, when you as a Black man has not fully excepted yourself.
Cam
@Tackle:
So you attack him for using his experience as his frame of reference, but respond by using your own experience as your frame of reference.
I thought the character of the mother defending the gay son when he was little was actually a wonderfully done scene.
As for painting an entire community with an entire brush, you also paint him with the same brush with just as little justification.
mgkbus
@Cam: I agree with you. I could say all sorts of the things about the balck community (I will use that word, i’m black, gay journalist) from my own experience. Why should I though? No one here would appreciate my sturuggle with the issue. Or tales of how I fought against this type of homophobia for more years than some here have been alive. What I am amazed by is the vehement denying that the black community is largely homoophobic. While I agree it has to do with a greatly skewed view darkened by religiosity, the real story is quite complicated.
dave lopes
” they are killing our women”?????
seriously, this dude is blaming black gay men.
and why should the so called black community fully embrace it while other communities dont.
the man should stick to entertainment.
Blackceo
I love Empire. Taraji is killin it as Cookie. The scene when Lucious put Jamal in the trash when he came out strutting in the heels and the scarf was hilarious. I also like that they said they wanted to portray a certain kind of black gay character and not the stereotypical one often seen on tv and film.
Jamal’s man is fine too but when Cookir met him and was like “awww honey you ain’t tell me you was dating a little Mexican. Look at her she’s adorable” I was cracking up cuz that boy was not Mexican Latinos who aren’t Mexican do not like it when u call them that. The language is just real. You heard “Negro” “sissy” “queen” and “fag*got” all in the first episode.
My family is quite liberal socially so I didn’t have issues when I came out. I’m an only child so my mother was ecstatic. My dad’s only concern was that it would make my life harder because of being Black and a man of color, but it hasn’t. Some of the older, more religious members of my family, particularly the old school Catholics on my Puerto Rican side don’t agree with it but have never made me feel uncomfortable or given me side eye. None of my Black family members have ever shown intolerance. We are very close and they all believe that homosexuality is just something you are born with and it not being a choice.
I think there are some SES influences that do come into play. I do believe there is a correlation between higher education, geography, and income when it comes to attitudes about gays. But, throw religion into it and it can turn all that upside down. No, not all of the Black community is homophobic, but there are too many who arw and its always frustrated me because if there is anyone who should understand intolerance, discrimination, and oppression its Black folk. But its not as simple as “the Black community is homophobic”
tdh1980
@mgkbus: No one denies that black people can be homophobic because we all know better than that. What we do reject, however, is the notion that the black race has some type of monopoly on homophobia in this country, as it ignores the large swathe of white conservatives, usually evangelical Christians, across the nation who make it their lives’ mission to fight against the “gay agenda” every opportunity they get. No one labels all white people as homophobes due to their actions, but all of black America has to battle against the label because of the convictions of a mainly religious constituency.
Kangol
Lee Daniels, like Tyler Perry, is in a lot of pain about the homophobic treatment he experienced as a child, but he shouldn’t paint an entire community (of 42+ million people, let’s not forget) as monolithic.
Nevertheless, his new show, with all its flaws, is going to do some good. Maybe it’ll even bring Tyler Perry out of the closet. And we need more shows of all kinds about LGBTQ people, with all kinds of LGBTQ people in them.
Also, there is no “gay lifestyle.” There are LGBTQ people, living our lives as LGBTQ people. We are not monoliths either.
KiraNerysRules
Daniels needs to ditch the mythical DL talk. But, other than that, I love “Empire!”
Blackceo
Omg i did not mean to say that scene where the boy was put in the trash can was hilarious. I edited my paragraph and somehow jacked that up. That was a horrible scene that Lee Daniels said actually happened to him from his father and that he got emotional during that scene.
puck247
Is “DL” mythical ? Should it just go back to being termed “closeted.” If a guy is blowing me and is able to tell himself and the world he’s not gay then so be it. It’s his choice of self identification.
KiraNerysRules
@Puck247: Um. Not what I was talking about. I was referring to the myth of Black guys being on the DL and infecting loads of Black women with HIV. You know, what the first paragraph of this article is referencing. ^_^
wagnerwallace
Why is it called “DL” when a black man is in the closet, but I’ve met several “straight” white men, who are usually married, who drive hours from their hometown to meet up with and have sex with gay men for the weekend.
It’s weird how it’s only a major issue when a black guy does it. The problem is on both sides.
Blackceo
@tdh1980:
Exactly…sick of it..just like when some white gay douchebags like Dan Savage tried to blame the passage of Prop 8 on the Black community and other white gays were quick to use the N word that night in 2008. Some of them were quick to be all pissed at Blacks for “getting their Black President” but “taking our rights away (ie white gays cuz obbiously they weren’t consodering Black gays at all) like somehow the small percentage of Black voters was the reason Prop 8 passed.
lcandela123
@tdh1980: They suck, too. But, so do black bigots.
Blackceo
@lcandela123:
All bigots suck.
mgkbus
@Blackceo: While I have some distaste of having to had to work with Dan Savage, I will give him some credit (for very little, he sort of a jerk) for being a loud mouth. The idea that black people alone were responsible for Prop 8 passage is ludicrous at best.
mgkbus
@tdh1980: First of all, I reject the term “Black race” because there is no such thing. There is the human race. Secondly, you do seem to have a knack at missing a point: I never said what you are accusing me of. I would never make a statement like that, nor did I.
ashersea
@Wagner Wallace:
It’s great to hear about how supportive your church-going family is to you. But my question to you is, how would your church members react if you told them you were gay if you were speaking at the pulpit.
Tackle
@Cam: I attack him for using his experience as a frame of reference, in- reference to the whole,
so- called Africa American community. He’s old enough to know and should know that how ever horrible his experiences were with his family, his family is NOT the African American community.
And yes I use my experience as my frame of reference, where I clearly state, ( my Black family) . I don’t think any poster here would say there is no homophobia among Blacks. There is homophobia among ALL ethnic groups. The problem that I have with Lee, is that he , singular, for the past four yrs, points to Blacks, and only Blacks as having this problem.
Intentional or not, ( he may be misinformed?? ) a lot of what he says is just untrue. The leading cause of death among Black women are unintentional injuries, heart disease, cancer, stroke, homicide and diabetes. Not HIV/ AIDS as he would want us to believe.
And DL is very much a myth. It’s nothing more then closeted
bi-sexual behavior. On the other side we have Joe Simpson, Jered Leto, James McGreevey, Ted Haggard, Paul Crouch, and the god father of the DL/ bi- sexual behavior: Merve Griffin. But for some strange reason, when Black men do this, it’s. DL. When White men do this, it’s called being bi-sexual.
It’s obvious that he’s still hurt and traumatized by what his father did to him. And that’s probably the reason to this day, sexually that he’s not attracted to Black men. And that’s why he still harbors and carries some resentment towards Blacks. He most likely is one of those who have a love/ hate relationship with Blacks.
But whatever happened between he and his father, I wasn’t there. Neither was the whole Black community. ..
Arcamenel
Surprised and happy to know there are so many black commentators on Queerty. At least I’m not the only one rolling my eyes at the white and ko0n nonsense that gets spewed here.
Anyway there isn’t much that needs to be added. I’ve always said that for some reason when black people are homophobic for the same reasons white people are(religion) it’s treated like some special brand of homophobia that’s more insidious. DL is nothing more than closeted, I don’t want even want to label them as bisexual because I know many bisexual men who are out and proud about it.
We also have to address how the white patriarchy and toxic masculinity contribute to homophobia. Feminist concepts.
GQ83
I love the show and I think Lee Daniels is an amazing Director. 🙂
Cam
@Tackle: Thanks for the more detailed response, I understand the direction you were coming from now. 🙂
tdh1980
@Arcamenel: I think that because blacks in this country historically have been systematically disenfranchised, there’s a propensity for people to hold us to a higher standard for how we treat members of other marginalized groups. Unfortunately, it manifests itself in a condescending attitude of chastisement from those who assume that we should “know better” any time any one of us expresses a bigoted opinion. My point is that intolerance is intolerance no matter whose face is attached to it, so we should treat it all with equal disdain.
Having said all that, I support Lee Daniels as a filmmaker and television producer and rejoice at the fact that “Empire” has begun with a bang. I hope the series continues to find its footing, as is has a great deal of promise, and I’ll be rooting for Taraji P. Henson come time for Emmy nominations.
M.D.
This is really rich coming from Lee Daniels.
I’m as unimpressed by his opinions as I am by his work.