Ron “Don’t Say Gay” DeSantis is ordering The College Board to remove LGBTQ+ material from an Advanced Placement psychology course.
And The College Board ain’t budging.
On Thursday, The College Board announced it has rejected the Florida governor’s demand to change portions of a psychology class that addresses gender identity and sexuality. Earlier this year, DeSantis expanded the state’s odious “Don’t Say Gay” law to all grade levels, barring discussion of LGBTQ+ issues in public school classrooms across Florida.
“Please know that we will not modify our courses to accommodate restrictions on teaching essential, college-level topics,” the board said in a letter to Florida’s education department, via Politico. “Doing so would break the fundamental promise of AP: colleges wouldn’t broadly accept that course for credit and that course wouldn’t prepare students for success in the discipline.”
This is DeSantis’ second high-profile fight with The College Board, whose Advanced Placement program offers 40 courses that are taught across the country. Last year, DeSantis demanded the organization alter components of its African American studies class, including lessons on the Black Lives Matter movement and the concept of reparations.
The College Board initially complied, before saying it will revise the course yet again.
It’s unclear whether the psychology class in question will be offered in Florida, the third largest state in the U.S. Florida is creating its own high-level courses to rival AP classes, Politico reports.
DeSantis is on a long-standing kick to whitewash Florida’s public education system. Earlier this year, he engineered a takeover of New College, a small liberal arts institution, installing conservative lackeys on its board to remake the school.
Ever since winning reelection last November, DeSantis, who announced his campaign for president last month in a disastrous Twitter Spaces with Elon Musk, has made attacking LGBTQ+ people one of his utmost priorities.
During Florida’s last legislative session, he signed a bill outlawing gender-affirming care for minors and made it a criminal offense if adults don’t use the bathroom that corresponds with the sex they were assigned at birth. The legislature also passed a bill targeting drag shows.
As DeSantis leans further into the culture wars, his standing among voters keeps faltering. His unfavorable rating currently stands at 48.1%. Back in January, it was 32.1%.
In other words, DeSantis’ attempts to curry favor by minimizing LGBTQ+ people in society and the classroom aren’t working. What a pity.
Scroll down for more reaction to the flailing candidate’s latest setback…
He’s so full of empty threats it’s comical. Another reason to laugh at him
— Susan (@snoozin19) June 15, 2023
Desantis’s spitefulness will potentially cost college bound students thousands of dollars. pic.twitter.com/vPBccimMru
— Jennifer Tammaro (@Jennanjack) June 15, 2023
I honestly think that Republicans spend more time thinking about gay sex than actual gay porn stars do.
— Logan Five (@LoganFive6) June 15, 2023
FL parents with college bound kids are eventually going to revolt. They will see that their kids are less competitive just because Desantis wants to be potus.
— Bend mountain Mama (@souzajen) June 15, 2023
Standing up to tyranny! This gives me hope for humanity.
— Dom Unique (@BusterMalarkey) June 16, 2023
dbmcvey
A roadblock to DeSantis’ fascist march.
But hey, Shaver loves him!
ShaverC
mcvey, You paint everything and everyone with a very wide brush don’t you? As I said before, my opinion is that he is correct that young kids have no business studying trans & gay issues. High school level, like this, I think they should be able to study it. So surprise, I’m not on “his side” with this story and agree the AP college board should push back.
Bosch
ShaverC
Kids who don’t know that same-sex affection is normal are much more susceptible to being abused. Abusers use a child’s naivety, shame, and secrecy to their advantage.
It is absolutely important for children to learn as much about gay issues as they learn about straight issues. Homosexuality is no less appropriate than heterosexuality.
decrans
Stats? Links?
ShaverC
I agree with decrans, that is absolutely false. Stats & where are the studies.
dbmcvey
No. I don’t paint with a wide brush. You’ve been on here several times trying to gaslight us into believing that DeSantis isn’t really anti-gay.
Not surprising you agree with Jared, you’re probably the same person.
decrans
Sweet Dave Matthews, shaver has been here for years. I only arrived. We have different writing styles. Truth be told, you sound mentally unhinged. If you’re a poor person of color, I wouldn’t suggest California for getting help with your delusional thinking.
CatholicXXX
My favorite is black and brown people standing behind him with anti-crt signs. How stupid must these people be?
dbmcvey
Neither of you have any stye.
Also, when you write things like “sweet Dave Matthews” you don’t sound like a real person.
abfab
Really, esp since Dave is a really sweet guy, not to mention extremely talented, very smart and RICH!
decrans
And yet, he wastes time being out-argued on Queerty. How sad.
Bosch
“decrans
Stats? Links?”
Psychology 101, decrans.
You want stats? How about you look up how much more child abuse takes place in conservative cultures; the church, Amish communities, states where child marriage is legal, etc. And then you try to find me a different explanation for that phenomenon.
You don’t need stats to know that a child abuser needs a child to be secretive and full of shame. Because what happens otherwise? The child tells people.
But you guys don’t seem to want children to have the tools and confidence to tell people. You want children to be easy targets for abusers?
Bosch
“ShaverC
I agree with decrans, that is absolutely false. Stats & where are the studies.”
You don’t need stats to understand why child abusers want children to be secretive.
This is all the proof I need that you don’t actually give a crap about protecting children.
Bosch
Decrans says “shaver has been here for years. I only arrived.”
Anyone else here spot what’s wrong with this assertion, besides the omission of the word “just”? Looks like dbmcvey hit the nail on its head.
decrans
Bosch doesn’t need evidence. Only storytelling! How quaint. That’s not how the adult world in America works. You’re like an overgrown child screaming ‘Because I said so!”
decrans
And based on your assertions, that’s the same rationale that conservatives use with drag queens. Look what happened with Sharon Needles and the drag kid that got abused. See how that works, Bosch. It works both ways when you refuse to present evidence and scream into void. The conservatives don’t want secrecy either, baby. That’s why they’re fighting so hard.
abfab
Yeah, we do. And by ”just arrived” she means she just fell off the turnip truck.
abfab
JE VIENS! Je suis arrivé!!! (I really doubt she ever comes—it’s why she’s so bitter and frustrated.)
decrans
And here comes abfab’s misogyny rooted tropes. He’s the party of women, though! Because Joe Biden told him so with rainbow glitter.
Bosch
“The conservatives don’t want secrecy either, baby. ”
This article is literally about removing information from a college level course. You’re a gaslighter.
Bosch
PS – if you “just arrived”, you would have no idea how long Shaver has been here. Step up your troll game, child!
decrans
Bosch. Your exact words before you got out-argued concerned child molestation and secrecy. My points with Jazz dilated neovagina and bone density? Your side engages in secrecy with kids as well. Don’t get mad at me. Those are your words.
Bosch
“my side”
For the hundredth time, I’m not American. The whole world isn’t stupidly divided into just two parties, republicans and democrats.
Again, your Jazz vaginoplasty complaint highlights that you have a terrible healthcare system. It suggests that your gender-affirming care needs to be improved, not banned.
And omg, maybe if you had learned on time that it was ok to be gay, you wouldn’t have had a gender-centric identity crisis. Stop defending the idea that gay people are socially inappropriate.
decrans
I’m saying this again. Be sure to perk your ears. As evidenced by this thread, the left likes to carry water for trans ideology at all costs and refuses to address the 18yo who is suing her doctors for breast amputation seriously. I don’t give a hoot if you’re American or not. You’re defending it and not addressing the real life pain of this person. Makes no difference to me what political label you affix to yourself. It’s callous and wrong.
Bosch
Decrans, I’ve been pretty clear in the fact that I support postponing transitioning until adulthood.
Giving a child a mastectomy is not part of those beliefs.
Do you know why kids don’t get mastectomies where I live? Puberty blockers. It gives individuals years to decide whether they want to transition, and they can back out at any time.
Just because I’m disagreeing with you, that doesn’t mean I support the exact opposite of your beliefs. That’s the thing about not being American: we don’t just have two very polarised sides to choose from.
decrans
And I’ve been pretty clear in saying that our healthcare system is utter crap and the liberals are more concerned about spouting trans propaganda. Because to truly address it would tumble the entire house of cards over. So here we are.
decrans
BBC Woman’s Hour reported today on an important change to the NHS website section on gender dysphoria: the NHS no longer says that puberty blockers are ‘reversible.’
The new updated section on the NHS website is an improvement on older versions, the information is more accurate and fact-based, there is less ideology and more care is taken with language. It represents a step in the right direction and we welcome the positive changes.
There are some particularly significant amendments in the updated version, the most important of which is the issue of reversibility of puberty blockers. Here are the main changes:
Puberty Blockers
GONE is the claim that puberty blockers are considered to be fully reversible:
“The effects of treatment with GnRH analogues are considered to be fully reversible, so treatment can usually be stopped at any time after a discussion between you, your child and your MDT”.
NEW is the admission that long-term effects are unknown:
“Little is known about the long-term side effects of hormone or puberty blockers in children with gender dysphoria.
Although the Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) advises this is a physically reversible treatment if stopped, it is not known what the psychological effects may be.
It’s also not known whether hormone blockers affect the development of the teenage brain or children’s bones. Side effects may also include hot flushes, fatigue and mood alterations.”
Bosch
“It’s also not known whether hormone blockers affect the development of the teenage brain or children’s bones. Side effects may also include hot flushes, fatigue and mood alterations.”
That’s not even correct; it is known that puberty blockers can affect bone development, and that’s exactly why we measure bone density before and during treatment.
But this article doesn’t disprove anything I’ve said. None of this suggests that the UK is banning gender-affirming care, the same article explains that some teenagers will qualify for puberty blockers. But banning care completely is what the republicans are trying to do. Because they’re not interested in protecting kids, cis or trans, they’re just interested in scapegoating anything LGBT+ in order to get votes from the frightened and the angry.
decrans
Bosch, I can always depend on your intellectual dishonesty. Nobody is claiming the UK is banning gender affirmative care. They are limiting, re-evaluating and providing only in EXCEPTIONAL circumstances. I’m not saying it again.
decrans
I think your disconnect lies in living in another country. In America, people are told to take hormone pills incorrectly. It happened to me and others in the Nashville transgender clinic. Measuring bone density when a base level hasn’t been established in large pockets of America while Biden and American liberals sat idly by. That’s what happened in America. Not the UK. Not Australia. America. We operate here with these issues. And secondly, you fail to grasp nuances and provide blanket generalizations. Not all Republicans are doing the same thing. Some Republicans are establishing more vigorous mental health assessment. Some Republicans are banning drag. Some Republicans are enshrining protections. For the most part, as someone who has attempted a gender transition for five years, I see a lot of Democrats sitting idly by. Not all, but a sizable chunk.
decrans
And that’s a nuance, Bosch. Some trans people mail hormones illegally to children. (Eli Erick) Some trans people think informed consent should be the model without any guardrails. Stop talking in generalizations. It’s a nuanced issue that needs to be thought through carefully. And right now, that’s a difficult task for most Americans. The “everybody’s trans’ model is starting to produce lawsuits.
dbmcvey
@desccrans,
I still don’t believe you were trans.
My2CentsWorth
It is bad to see Blacks and other people who have been victimized by bigotry supporting bigots. Bigots who are liars and actually don’t care about the people whom they are trying to appeal to.
Bosch
“They are limiting, re-evaluating and providing only in EXCEPTIONAL circumstances. I’m not saying it again.”
Lol. I think you’re getting confused about which one of us said what.
decrans
Nope. You posted about exceptional circumstances. That means rare cases. Not welcome every teenager who got curious about transitioning from a TikTok video. Rare, exceptional cases. That’s what they’re doing now in the UK and that’s the debate going down in America. I know your side doesn’t like facts (cough: much like the Trump voters.) However, those are the facts laid out in the article.
Bosch
Yes, thank you for telling me the exact thing that I told you. At least it shows you can read.
So, how is trans care going in Florida? Since we’re under an article about Florida.
decrans
Meanwhile, Biden’s approval rating is worse than Trump’s according to FiveThirtyEight. Looks like his social engineering push ain’t winning voters either.
dbmcvey
And that has anything to do with this because?
Also, what “social engineering?” You’re just writing b.s.
decrans
His social engineering push to normalize mentally ill kids falling through the cracks of our healthcare system and being unnecessarily pushed into trans medicalization when they aren’t trans. The author made inferences about polls without supporting evidence. The other side can do the same damned thing. When you argue Dave Matthews, you have to back up your assertions. It’s basic Debate 101 stuff, bud.
JClark
Just checked . . . FiveThirtyEight’s latest favorable rating for Trump is 39.1%. For Biden, it’s 40.6%. Not that either guy is particularly popular, but were you hoping people wouldn’t check? Let’s deal in facts, okay?
Bosch
I don’t see why every conversation needs to become about trans kids.
If an individual’s gender identity could be affected, there wouldn’t be any trans people, Einstein.
If a kid identifies as trans, then that is their identification. The whole purpose of puberty blockers is to postpone any kind of transition into adulthood. If someone at 18 decides they still want to transition, then that is their adult decision.
Stop pretending you give a crap about protecting kids.
ShaverC
JClark, You shouldn’t quibble, bottom line is Biden’s numbers are fundamentally the same as the evil orange man’s.
decrans
I must have read a link from a few days ago. The facts remain basically the same. Joe Biden is just as unpopular and has been. His full throated trans push hasn’t resulted in gaining new ground. Those are the facts, yes.
decrans
Because a child doesn’t know about bone density loss and other health complications. When one side presents drag fantasy, that is a problem for a demographic who believes in Santa Claus. I will die on that hill and continue speaking out on that hill, thank you very much.
dbmcvey
See, this is how I know you were not really trans. You get all your talking points from anti-gay conservative propaganda.
decrans
A child doesn’t know about bone density loss. Once again, your subpar debate skills are showing. That’s a fact in reality with studies to back it up. Not to mention Jazz Jennings painfully prodding her neovagina on TLC. Your side isn’t telling kids the complete story. I learned it up close and personal. Be a man and tell kids the truth, Dave Matthews.
decrans
What does it say that the golden child spokesperson Jazz Jennings wasn’t aware about the painful medicalization process with a neovagina and had that incident blasted on TLC’s airwaves? It wasn’t a good look for your side of the argument. I can tell you that much. Tell kids the truth. Otherwise, y’all are just as dishonest as the religious right y’all love to lambast.
dbmcvey
It says you’re getting all your information from right wing websites.
decrans
It says I have two eyes and watch TLC. I have eyes, Dave Matthews. So do the firm Majority of Americans who disagree with your trans views. Do a better job at convincing. I’m a paid political Canvasser for Republicans. Your argument game is weak.
Bosch
“Because a child doesn’t know about bone density loss and other health complications. ”
What do you mean “a child doesn’t know”? Any teenager who is considering postponing puberty is given this information.
Bone density recovers as soon as you stop taking these hormones. Shouldn’t you know this, as an ex-trans?
Stefano
@BOSCH : You’re wasting your time trying to “debate” with this person. Her hatred of herself and others drives her to the abyss, and there’s nothing anyone can do about it. This person is only interested in confrontation. She doesn’t want to know anything about you, she just wants to pose as a victim….so no matter what you say, she’ll turn it all against you, as any good manipulator knows how to do. You just have to let her wade in her misery and hatred, otherwise she’ll drag you down with her.
decrans
I wasn’t given this information. Chloe Cole wasn’t given this information. There are literally countless other ex-trans individuals who were not given this information. As someone casually suggested with me, all you need to do is Google de-trans and Reddit. To quote Bill O Reilly on The View, “You could learn something!’
decrans
Bone density issues are permanent. As someone who vociferously defends trans stuff, shouldn’t you know this before you open your yapper? You would look halfway knowledgeable like you know what you’re talking about. Google, my friend. Google.
decrans
And Stefano. I’m a him. I’m one of the countless gay men who were sexually traumatized and adopted a feminine persona with borderline personality disorder, which is a condition that overlaps with trans. Instead of being all cute and misgender-y, shouldn’t you be more concerned that gay men are being unnecessarily shoehorned into trans medicalization? If we called it ex-gay therapy, you’d whine and moan.
abfab
Someone get this bullshitter a shoehorn!
abfab
Bill Oh Riley…………..and there it is AGAIN! Another piece of the puzzle.
abfab
Oh, Stephano……….let decranz vent. Let her rant. Or would you rather she snap altogether and blow up a Federal Office Building ala Timaothy McVeigh?
Here, we get to see what we’re up against. She is representive of the Republican Party, all wrapped up in a nutshell.
This cretin is Kaitlyn Jenner. Very Pro-Fox……Very fuc ked up.
decrans
I am a gay man (probably transitioning into heterosexual) who was sexually abused and therapists went along with the trans narrative instead of asking questions. That makes you uncomfortable. I get that. You should be asking questions on how to fix our healthcare system instead of being sarcastic. I know that’s all you have. You are confronted with uncomfortable truths. You have nothing else to offer.
decrans
And that’s evidenced by the fact that I out-argue you in every thread, Abfab. You can’t back it up with facts. My story pushes up against the propaganda you’ve been taught. Like the Trump supporters who are confronted with inconvenient truths, you stare blankly and offer jingoism instead of rebuttal. I view you on the same level as Trump supporters. You have the same brain capacity and vacuous emotional intelligence.
abfab
Let’s make one thing perfectly clear to you. You will not find the help you need here.
decrans
That’s true. It is a joy to poke holes in your balloon with my real world experience, Ab.
decrans
And the bones grow during puberty. They do not ‘come back’ as Bosch claims. This is not how the human body and science works. I know y’all like to invent your own set of science (much like the anti-vaxxers.) This goes back to high school biology, everyone. Bones grow during puberty. Everyone learned this in high school. We are not robots that can grow bone into adulthood.
DeeAnnCA
From June 7 Newsweek:
According to online polling company Civiqs’ dynamic approval rating graph, DeSantis currently has a net approval rating of negative 19 points, with an average of 55 percent of respondents disapproving of him, compared with 36 percent who have a favorable view of the Republican.
The data shows DeSantis has a major unfavorable rating from those aged 18-34 (63 percent), women (62 percent), as well as African Americans (85 percent), and the Hispanic/Latino population (68 percent).
decrans
We have said it before his thread. All leading candidates from the Democratic and Republican side have abysmal poll numbers. That’s why people like myself are looking at independent parties. I’m part of that statistical data, too. It’s been well established. They all have low approval ratings. Why keep arguing? Those are the numbers. They all blow and America agrees.
Bosch
Stefano! It’s been ages! Last time I saw you, all the trolls had different names!
Bosch
“I know y’all like to invent your own set of science (much like the anti-vaxxers.) ”
Anti-vaxxers, who take a handful of side-effect cases among hundreds of thousands as proof that vaccines are dangerous? Kind of like you’re doing with this bone-density story?
I will take 30 years of monitored trans patients over your scaremongering any day.
Bosch
“probably transitioning into heterosexual”
Transitioning for attention, again? Who’s fault is it gonna be this time?
Bosch
“And the bones grow during puberty. They do not ‘come back’ as Bosch claims.”
My “claim” is that bones will grow during a postponed puberty. You do know what “postpone” means right?
If you want to sound smart, stop saying dumb stuff.
Bosch
Wait a minute… You claim to be ex-trans, yet you don’t know that puberty resumes after stopping puberty blockers? You think trans individuals who used puberty blockers just never go through puberty?
Hmmm… Things with you just keep getting more and more fishy.
decrans
Look at that, Bosch. A study from the National Institute of Health on transgender puberty blockers and bone loss. Again, I know your side loves to invent science (much like the anti-vaxxers.) It’s literally right there at your fingertips. I know, I know. The National Institute of Health is right wing now. Your arguments are so pathetic. It’s sad. Truly.
decrans
And also, trans kids are a new thing. You’re studying trans adults mostly. Stop being intellectually dishonest, Bosch. It makes you look like the religious right you disdain.
Bosch
@decrans
I never denied puberty blockers cause bone density loss. That is exactly why I told you bone density is measured before and during treatment in my country.
Trans teenagers are not a new thing where I live; we’ve been issuing puberty blockers for three decades. Just because something is “new” in the US, doesn’t mean it’s new to the rest of the world.
decrans
And the European evolved countries are cutting back on ‘gender affirming’ care for kids. There’s another inconvenient truth for you, Bos.
decrans
And in the US, things aren’t the rosy utopia you paint. What do you say to the 18yo who is suing her doctors for amputating her breasts at age 13? Does she have a right to sue? Tough cookies, kid. Stop pretending you give a crap about children, Bos. You don’t. It’s clear as day.
Bosch
Nowhere do I suggest the US is a rosy Utopia.
Nowhere do I suggest children should get mastectomies.
I suggest it is in some cases appropriate to postpone puberty, with the purpose of delaying any kind of transition to adulthood.
Maybe that’s not what they do in America, but it’s what they do where I live.
PoetDaddy
Republicans take AP courses? When did this start? Republicans HATE education, especially advanced education. Education makes people trend to the left.
Openminded
I’m surprised Fla High Schools offer Psych classes, much less AP Psych.
Kangol2
Republicans hate PUBLIC education. They love right-wing Christian evangelical and Roman Catholic schools, charter schools, and homeschooling. The public elementary, secondary and university-level educational system that has educated the vast majority of Americans for over a century and a half and aided the US in becoming a world leader is the one they detest and are endlessly trying to destroy.
Bosch
It’s also extra stupid that college-educated politicians can somehow convince their constituents that college is evil.
abfab
It’s only for ”the elite”. LOL
abfab
Imagine Rhonda sitting thru high school exams and passing!
Fahd
Can’t wait for this jerk to fizzle out completely. Kudos to those who are standing up to this wannabe fascist dictator.
abfab
We all know what you mean, Fahd….but honeychild, his fizzle fizzled out long ago. I’d say he snapped decades ago and they just let him out. Is decrans running for office?
frapachino
I don’t like the guy either but calling everyone you disagree with a dictator/fascist is absurd and cheapens your argument. Now Newsom on the other hand is close to being a dictator than any politician out there right now. Notice I said closer not an actual dictator.
Bosch
I mean, he yelled at students that were wearing masks during the pandemic. That’s a little bit fascist-y.
Bosch
Republicans want to sabotage the education system, because they know it’s mostly the dumb kids will grow up to vote republican.
Jeremiah
100% correct
An educated voter is a republican’s worst nightmare
ShaverC
Bosch, You believe men could become women and that children should be disfigured with puberty blockers. Who’s the dumb one?
abfab
You still and always will hold that title, ShaverC.
ShaverC
abfab, An educated voter? Thanks.
abfab
Hey Bosch, I love your screen name and FYI I love the series Bosch. Still bingeing on it….
….got a feeling and I can’t let go
…..got a feeling and I can’t let go
…..got a feeling and I can’t let go
(yes, I also love good theme songs) xo
And his pad in the Canyons over looking in LA….I’d kill for that. Anyway, Bosch, keep up the good work and HAPPY FUC-KING PRIDE MONTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dbmcvey
Shaver shills for right wing, anti-gay politicians and thinks Ted Cruz is an ally.
Bosch
No ShaverC. I believe people should be allowed to live their life how they want, because everyone gets only one. Why do trans people need your permission to be trans? That’s just as stupid as the idea that gay people need straight people’s permission to marry eachother.
Not the mention the fact that there are biological and neurological causes for trans individuals, it’s not about “feeling”. If an individual is born with a physically female brain, complete with oestrogen signalling pathways, but male genitalia, and thus masculine secondary sex characteristics, you believe the genitals are the importan bit? Who cares if it’s a woman with a physical deformity, let’s force her to live like a man?
Of course you won’t give this any thought; your opinion on trans people is motivated not by science or compassion, but by politics.
ShaverC
Bosch, There is no evidence that a trans woman has a “woman’s” brain. Absolutely false. I do have compassion for someone who is struggling with gender dysphoria, but giving children puberty blockers is abuse. It stops them from maturing and it is irreversible. Jazz Jennings, probably the most famous person who was on puberty blockers, did not grow a proper p*nis and not has problems with the vaginoplasty. Girls on puberty blockers, who do not transition and come off the meds, are often left with underdeveloped reproductive system and other issues. Adults can do what they want, children often do not know what they want.
Bosch
“Bosch, There is no evidence that a trans woman has a “woman’s” brain. Absolutely false.”
So you think I just invented the class of proteins referred to as oestrogen signalling pathways?
Hmmm, if only there were a neurologist here, we could ask him…
Bosch
“It stops them from maturing and it is irreversible”
It is irreversible? Tell me, what do you think happens when a person stops taking puberty blockers?
ShaverC
Bosch, I just told you what happens.
Bosch
Well, let me correct you then. When someone stops taking puberty blockers, puberty resumes.
You might be confusing it with sex-hormone treatments: those effects can be irreversible.
decrans
If only Bosch posted evidence to back up his assertions.
ShaverC
Bosch, That’s ridiculous. You stopped someone from developing for years and you think the body will just catch up? It’s well known that it affects bone and organ development. You are stopping a child from reaching puberty, that is abuse no matter what the reason. It’s foolish to think a child will not be affected by having normal development stopped. I’m floored.
abfab
If shaveY ever applies for a social or clinical position, I hope he submits his colection of RANTS and attaches them to his resume. DENIED!
Quit teaching. You sound worse than Dr Oz and you’re making a bigger fool of yourself with each and every word.
abfab
@depends
Supplying you with evidence would be a huge waste of time. You still think the Earth is flat and your brain is fried. You and Shaves should date.
decrans
And that’s another reason Jazz Jennings had complications. The penile tissue wasn’t enough to construct a vagina. For all the people pushing this, please tell the children about Jazz Jennings’s complicated neovagina from not having enough penis tissue. Be truthful for once as opposed to spouting incessant lies at kids. Y’all want to talk about secrecy. There you go.
abfab
What ever you say, Miss Jenner.
decrans
Bosch isn’t the brightest bulb in the drawer. He thinks we re-grow bones into adulthood. Please look into remedial high school biology. See if it works for you.
Bosch
“You stopped someone from developing for years and you think the body will just catch up?”
Yes. That’s exactly what happens. And the process can even be sped up with the correct sex hormones.
I know all this stuff is new to America, but this is how we’ve been treating trans patients for 3 decades in my part of the world. We would have noticed by now if there were common side- or permanent effects.
Bosch
“he thinks we regrow bones bla bla”
Decrans, in my part of the world, teenagers who are on puberty blockers have a baseline bone density measurement before treatment, and yearly measurements during and after treatment.
Bone density tends to recover in young adults with postponed puberty. We’ve been doing this for 3 decades, you don’t think we would have noticed if trans people were extra brittle?
Trans people deserve appropriate care. We can’t disadvantage them just because some attention-seeking narcissistic teenagers manipulate the system, and then blame everyone else for the results.
Bosch
Hmmm, you like using Jazz as an example.dont you? Here’s a recent tweet from this American TLC celeb that I barely know but googled because of you, April 1, 2023:
“I don’t regret my transition AT ALL. When I was 11, I started male puberty and was put on hormone blockers. Those blockers saved my life and continue to save the lives of so many youths out there. If I were forced to go through male puberty, it would’ve been devastating.”
Oh yeah, she seems really unhappy.
decrans
My point being? She didn’t know about the dilation of the neovagina. I thought we told the kids the complete story in your utopia world, Bos. I thought y’all were the ones without the secrecy with kids. That is Exhibit A. You don’t tell kids the complete story. Stop lying to children. It’s simple.
Bosch
Sounds to me like your real complaints are about the American Health System.
You fix that by improving the quality of trans care for minors, not by banning it.
Yes, in my country we do tell trans-identified teenagers the whole story, and we’ve been doing so for 3 decades. Just because your health care is awful, doesn’t mean ours is.
decrans
Here’s the problem, Bos. The left and the right are more concerned about political brownie points as opposed to fixing healthcare. That’s been apparent in this thread. And when detransitoners talk honestly about their experiences, they’re tarred and feathered by the left. Mustn’t go against trans in any way. So again, your discourse is part of the problem as well
decrans
So if you were truly concerned, you wouldn’t be as partisan. You would ask question and investigate. Your responses indicate a lot of assumptions and dutiful propaganda spouting. That’s where it starts.
Bosch
Decrans, I’m not American. Trans people aren’t politicised in my country by a left-right split. Our conservatives do not oppose trans rights.
“Your responses indicate a lot of assumptions and dutiful propaganda spouting”
You think your propaganda machine has information about health care in my country? It hasn’t occured to you that someone who’s studied neurology might know a thing or two about developmental biology and endocrinology?
You wanna know what dutiful propaganda spouting looks like? Turning every conversation into an argument about Biden or trans teenagers, or in this case, both.
decrans
Which country is it? In the UK, there’s a push to dial back “gender affirming’ care. Same with Norway. These evolved countries have begun to understand that kids who believe in The Tooth Fairy are not mentally cognizant to make lifelong decisions.
Bosch
I’m not telling you which country; you’re not the first troll I’ve dealt with. As soon as I do, 100 facts about what makes my country a terrible woke hellhole.
That kids are not equipped to make permanent decisions is exactly the reason that puberty blockers are used: it postpones permanent changes to adulthood.
Sweden and the UK are refining their gender-affirming care, not banning it. Improving psychological evaluation is a form of refinement. LGBT+ rights in those countries are far ahead of the US; they would have to drop significantly to be in any way comparable to what’s going on with American republicans.
decrans
LONDON (AP) — The publicly funded health service in England has decided it will not routinely offer puberty-blocking drugs to children at gender identity clinics, saying more evidence is needed about the potential benefits and harms.
Bosch
You see that word, “routinely”?
From that very same AP article:
“People under 18 can still be given puberty blockers in exceptional circumstances, the NHS said. Doctors at the new clinics still would be allowed to prescribe the drugs outside of a research setting “on an exceptional, case-by-case basis” and subject to approval from a national team of medical experts.”
They are improving their evaluation methods, not banning gender-affirming care.
decrans
And that’s what we don’t have in America, Bos. A team of doctors evaluating you. That’s not how the American insurance system works. Liberals don’t want to address it. Conservatives don’t want to address it. Hence the problems. A team of medical professionals. I will bet the rest of my bank account most of the commenters here give it nary a thought. So start addressing these people. Don’t address me. Address the people on your side.
decrans
And I survived it. I lived through it. And even if I minded my Ps and Q’s without anger, most of these people would say, “Whoopsie Daisy! Buck it up for the trans movement.” No. Fix healthcare. Don’t cut off a teenager’s breasts. (We have several lawsuits afoot.) Give kids the complete story as opposed to drag fantasy. This is where I stand. I refuse to budge from this hill.
decrans
And exceptional is another key word. In America, trans activists say, “Hey! Everyone is trans! Gender is so fluid! Labels? Who needs ’em?’ Nope, American liberals. Exceptional circumstances. That word nails the coffin shut.
Bosch
“Don’t address me. Address the people on your side”
They’re not the ones disagreeing with me, you are.
decrans
Well, let me give you a taste of what working class trans people talk about on my social media. The lack of a comprehensive team. That’s something you need to tell your team here.
Bosch
“The lack of a comprehensive team. ”
The republicans aren’t trying to improve the evaluation process, they’re trying to make any kind of trans-care illegal.
You need to talk to YOUR team.
decrans
Yes, they are. In Ohio and Missouri, they are strengthening psychological testing. I know you live in another undisclosed country. However, this is literally what’s happening in America right now. Try reading about it on Google.
Bosch
“However, this is literally what’s happening in America right now.”
Yes. And also, republicans are banning trans care. These things are not mutually exclusive.
decrans
Yes. And they are strengthening care for mentally ill individuals not to go through the trans medicalization process while the left literally does nothing.
KyleMichelSullivan
Mini-Mouse-olini is just the latest Republican idiot to think that the more hate he spews the better his chances of being elected to national office. I’m beginning to think stupidity is a requirement for someone to run on the GOP ticket, they keep proving how clueless they are. They think non-stop lies, misrepresentation, attacks on Democrats, tax cuts for billionaires, and weeping about woke culture is all that’s needed, not actual policies to help people. I hope America is waking up to just how depraved that party is…but we won’t know till November 2024.
abfab
How true….but the stupidity bar was set to low when Bush hired Dan Qualye. It just keeps getting more and more absurd, doesn’t it.
decrans
What is the Democratic policy beyond vague references to ‘getting the job done’ and a press release filled with rainbows and sprinkles? Could someone tell me what this party actually believes and how they realistically plan to achieve it?
abfab
Your mother should know. Talk to her.
decrans
How childlike. Your responses are childish. No wonder Americans aren’t taking your views seriously, Ab.
Kangol2
@Decrans, I’ve spelled it out on prior comment threads so do yourself a favor and look it up. The Democrats, whatever their faults, do have extensive plans that already are working to turn the country around from the disastrous freefall it was in in 2020 and early 2021 when Don the Con lost the presidency and staged his failed coup to stay in office. If you can’t find their plans after a bit of searching (Google, DuckDuckGo, etc.), come back and let us all know.
decrans
I’ll give you the rundown, Kangol. Gun legislation stalled. An endless war in Ukraine that has the makings of Afghanistan. Continued dominance of China and Russia in the global sphere. Shall I continue?
decrans
Immigration and fentanyl still not seriously addressed. We have people rotting in the streets of Los Angeles. I’ll keep going.
decrans
And because I back up my assertions with evidence (a novel concept on this Website.), that stat was from the Brookings Institution. Here are the stats from FactCheck.Org: Violent crime in major American cities increased 29 percent under Joe Biden.
Saudi Arabia refuses to take Biden’s calls and has forged a pathway with China. See above about no concrete plan in place with his energy policy. He designed sparkly cupcakes on Pride, though.
Bosch
decrans
“Could someone tell me what this party actually believes”
What they don’t believe in is trying to get votes by discriminating against people because of their skin colour, sexual orientation, or gender identity.
Are you really so stupid that you think that mentally healthy gays are going to gladly support a party who explicitly condemns gays?
If they republicans want gay votes, they need to stop being homobhobes. It’s so f-ing simple.
Bosch
Decrans
Are you somehow blaming the Ukraine war on Biden?
Do I need to remind you which president spent 4 years complaining about Ukraine and NATO, and was besties with Vladolf Putler?
The world is helping Ukraine with self-defence because it’s the right thing to do. And this war has nothing to do with America or Biden, it’s Russia attacking Ukraine for Russian reasons.
decrans
Well, they have Francis Suarez who waves a gay pride around like Biden. Even though Biden truly doesn’t have any ideas beyond a stalled Equality Act, you’re fixated with Biden in the Suarez vein. “Ooh, there’s a Pride Flag flapping around, mommy. I’ll vote for him!’ So yes, there are Republicans who conduct half-hearted attempts in the same vein as your boy.
abfab
Let’s remind DECRANS (not that it will make any sence to his Jello brain)…
IT’S THIS GUY!!
MIAMI (The Borowitz Report)—Miami police are looking for a defendant with seventy-one felony counts who skipped out on a check at a local Cuban restaurant on Tuesday.
According to the police, the man, who has been indicted for crimes in New York and Florida and could soon face arrest in Georgia, offered to pay for everyone in the restaurant before beating the check.
decrans
As for Ukraine, we remember that disasterous Afghanistan pullout, yes? We remember Sleepy Joe bumbling his words during a Middle East visit. And this is the person you want because of identity politics? A Weekend at Bernie’s with Putin and Xi running around. “Oh, he gave me a sparkly cupcake at Pride, mommy.” How are you any different from the Republicans who overlook Trump’s moral failings just because he might place more conservatives on the Supreme Court? You’re not. You’re willing to allow your own self-centered identity politics trump dangerous geopolitical implications. You are exactly the same on the Venn Diagram.
Bosch
“As for Ukraine, we remember that disasterous Afghanistan pullout, yes? ”
You mean the pullout initiated by Trump, who secretly signed a peace treaty with the Taliban without first discussing it with the American or Afghani government?
Yes, I remember that.
decrans
You mean the one where Biden left people struggling for their lives on the airstrip? Yeah, I remember that. Pepperridge Farms remembers, too. It wasn’t a good look globally for Sleepy Joe.
Bosch
Biden was flying the plane? Wow, your president has so many talents!
decrans
Being intellectually obtuse? Not a good look for you, Bos. You know damned well he was the president and was criticized from all sides of the political spectrum.
Bosch
No, decrans, the rest of the world didn’t blame the events on the runway on Biden. The rest of the world is fully aware that the retreat from Afghanistan was initiated by Trump. The rest of the world sees America from the outside, not via the bi-partisan paradigm, and your Biden-flavoured insults are ineffective against foreigners.
decrans
Ooh. Look here, Bos. I have more quotes for you. There’s plenty more coming! Buckle up. “I say this with a heavy heart and with horror over what is happening, but the early withdrawal was a serious and far-reaching miscalculation by the current administration,” said Norbert Röttgen, chairman of the German parliament’s foreign relations committee. “This does fundamental damage to the political and moral credibility of the West.”
decrans
“In the European Union, which held an emergency session of foreign ministers on Afghanistan on Tuesday, officials offered rare criticism of Washington for risking a flood of refugees to their borders and the return of a platform for terrorism in Central Asia.”
decrans
“There was no meaningful debate within his own team, much less with foreign partners. It was all very much rushed through,” said one European diplomat, speaking on condition of anonymity. And the “America first” nature of Biden’s speech on Monday, he added, “really made a lot of people in Europe sit up and say, is this more of a continuation with the previous president than we realized?” Nor has the Biden team done much consulting with allies on the Afghan refugee crisis.
Bosch
Yeah very pretty quotes! I especially liked this part:
“really made a lot of people in Europe sit up and say, is this more of a continuation with the previous president than we realized?”
Yeah of course Europe was pissed off about the retreat, we all knew it was bad decision. But we also knew it was Trump’s decision. This Washington Post article doesn’t deny that it was Trump who initiated the retreat, and Trump who signed the peace treaty with the Taliban.
Did you read in that same article what Dmitry Zhirnov, the Russian ambassador to Afghanistan said? That should give a clue as to why Trump did what he did.
decrans
Oh, I did! Can both things be true? Biden’s dementia ass botched the pullout that Trump exacerbated? I can talk and chew gum at the same time, Bos! Try it.
Bosch
And how do your feelings about Biden relate to removing important information from college psychology classes?
decrans
Honestly, the subject matter is reserved for college-age students and has no place In a public school setting.
decrans
And the beauty of American capitalism? There are other providers in the marketplace capable of preparing students at the next level. And the results speak for themselves. Gov DeSantis’s Florida ranks highly in terms of education.
Bosch
“Honestly, the subject matter is reserved for college-age students and has no place In a public school setting.”
Honestly, if you were too dumb to learn about the psychology of sexual orientation when you were 16, then that’s a huge problem.
Here’s a very simple clue as to why children without the appropriate sexual education are bad news.
US states with highest rates of teen pregnancy, April 2023:
Mississippi
27.9
Arkansas
27.8
Louisiana
25.7
Oklahoma
25.0
Alabama
24.8
Kentucky
23.8
Tennessee
23.3
West Virginia
22.5
Texas
22.4
Notice a trend?
decrans
Yeah, Bos. I noticed that you conflated two separate issues: AP College classes and general sex education. You certainly tried to make a point, bless your heart. And something about sexual orientation. It’s a lot of data that attempts to make a point.
Bosch
Conservative censorship of education is ONE issue.
decrans
It’s not censorship. It’s about one side indoctrinating their worldview upon kids. If conservative Christians indoctrinated children in schools, you’d be up in arms.
abfab
Back to the matter at hand!
DON’T FUC K WITH US DESANTIS! Or better yet, knock yourself out trying…………you’ll never win.
cc423
You’re self loathing is dangerous to your psyche. But I totally get it… Id hate myself too for supporting people who fundamentally hate me.
Bosch
cc423
I think you might have replied to the wrong guy there.
cc423
Just wait till universities around the nation stop admitting kids from Florida high schools because they are woefully unprepared.
abfab
Didn’t Rhonda go to a HS in FL?
Fahd
From a just published early June poll
“Views of DeSantis have declined net 17 points among Democrats, 18 points among independents, and 19 points among Republicans,” the poll showed.
Americans Don’t Want to Be More Like Florida
Kangol2
He’s sinking like a lead balloon! And look at Florida’s economic and social indicators. They ain’t great!
abfab
Even Mick Jagger is selling his Sarasota estate!
dougparr
WASHINGTON, D.C. — As President Donald Trump prepares to leave the White House, 34% of Americans approve of the job he is doing as president, the worst evaluation of his presidency. His 41% average approval rating throughout his presidency is four points lower than for any of his predecessors in Gallup’s polling era.Jan 18, 2021
Re Biden …The latest poll numbers are down 3 percentage points from last month’s poll, where 42 percent of respondents said they approve of Biden’s performance as president.
GayEGO
This is about relationships, like mine of 57 years, married 15 years. All kids should be taught about gender relationships and related issues.
abfab
All the little kids in my hood know dozens of couples with two daddies or two mommies. It’s as natural as the morning sun to them. I’ve also witnessed these little kids grow into unique and special individuals. Sharing basic info, just as GAYEGO states, works best. ox All kids! I feel for those who live in a house under the domination of religious maniacs.
Warning to the Right Wing. Don’t play games with children. You will always come out looking like a fool.
decrans
Who gives you the right to indoctrinate other people’s kids through government schools? The same principle with the Christians who pray by the flag pole. The government doesn’t permit them to encroach on another’s first amendment rights through indoctrination. The same rules apply to the gays.
decrans
And that’s bolstered by the recent Supreme Court ruling, which allows a Christian flag to be flown right alongside the Pride flag. The government is not allowed to give preferential treatment toward one group. And if they do, courts uphold that other forms of expression from opposing groups are included. And that’s the fabric of the United States of America, ladies and gentlemen.
Bosch
Decrans, pretending that teaching children it’s ok to be gay is “indoctrination”.
Bosch
“The government is not allowed to give preferential treatment toward one group. ”
Allowing teachings of heterosexual relationships (let’s be real, ENFORCEMENT of heterosexual relationships), but not teachings of homosexual relationships: that IS preferential treatment. You’re either a very bad troll, or a very dumb gay.
decrans
They shouldn’t teach any relationship at that age. Stick to the basics and stay out of the weeds. I base my assertions on Supreme Court rulings. I know you love pulling facts from your butt. But again, I back up my assertions with evidence. You should try it sometime.
Bosch
“They shouldn’t teach any relationship at that age”
I’m sorry, you’re suggesting we need to hide relationships from children? So also the straight ones, or just the gay ones? All the fairy tales that end with a happy-ever-after? All the cartoons where the main character is motivated by love? All mentions of marriage and weddings?
How are children supposed to model healthy relationships if they don’t see them? How are straight children supposed to model healthy straight relationships if they don’t see them. How are gay children supposed to model healthy gay relationships if they don’t see them?
So you don’t just want kids to be easy targets for predators, you also want them unable to form healthy relationships.
decrans
Bos. Again, you pull that children and secrecy line without backing up your assertions. If you backed up your assertions with evidence like an actual adult, I would begin to take you seriously. I look at you like a court jester, honestly. The school’s job is not to model healthy relationships. That is not the role of a government-run school. I would tell you the same thing as conservative Christians. Put the kid in a private school or homeschool.
Bosch
“The school’s job is not to model healthy relationships.”
You’re doing your best to avoid addressing why we need to hide gay relationships but not straight ones.
I don’t understand what kind of proof you need that child abusers rely on secrecy. You think your priest is going to molest the kid who’s gonna tell everyone?
It is SO easy, SO easy to Google the reasons that abuse-victims give for not speaking up. Do I need to give you a full course in child psychology?
decrans
And here we go with another story without evidence. From an alleged person who studied neurology. (Eye roll). So Bos, if you’re not about secrets, I reckon you side with the American conservatives who don’t want kids privately discussing their sexuality away from the classroom and in one-on-one conversations. Açcording to your first round of comments, it could lead to abuse! At this point, you should probably debate yourself. You’re all over the map here and it’s messy.
decrans
I’m going to work at my job as a paid Canvasser for the Republicans, Bos. Again, your first and last comments are completely contradictory. While I’m gone, just debate yourself at this point.
abfab
decrans.
This is the FBI. We know who you are. Your indictment will be handed down in your county of residense. You are accused of slander and/or libleing a public US citizen. Mr. Dave Mathews notified us and we have you on record. Be very careful going forward.
decrans
Abfab knows he has nothing to add, so he just showcases mental illness. We’ll do it together, Ab!
Bosch
This is nuts. You claim to have been sexually abused, yet you don’t seem to know the first thing about how children deal with abuse.
Since you’re too lazy/dumb/stubborn to do a Google search:
“Why do child sexual abuse victims not tell anyone about their abuse? An exploration of factors that prevent and promote disclosure”
Georgia M Winters et al. Behav Sci Law. 2020 Dec.
“Why don’t children tell?
1) Feelings of Guilt, Shame, and Self Blame
2) Fear
3) Lack of understanding
4) Relationship with the perpetrator
5) Gender”
You can read the article if you need expanded explanations of these points, but I think they’re quite self-explanatory.
Now, decrans, do you need to be spoonfed what the link is between points 1, 2, 3, 5, and learned homophobia? Is it still confusing to you how having taboos on sexuality lowers the chance of abuse being reported?
This is a scientific research article; not TLC, not some tabloid.
Bosch
“I reckon you side with the American conservatives who don’t want kids privately discussing their sexuality away from the classroom and in one-on-one conversations. Açcording to your first round of comments, it could lead to abuse!”
That’s a pretty stupid interpretation.
It’s not difficult to understand. If a child thinks that being gay is a sin, they will not speak up about sexual abuse. It’s important to understand that children are commonly seduced into abusive situations, not threatened. They also tend not to experience the abuse as abuse, they experience it as intimacy and play.
How is a child going to confess that they were seduced into gay behaviour by an adult if they’re taught that this behaviour is inherently evil?
Boys who were abused generally don’t speak up until decades later, some not at all. This is why. And that fact that you, an adult, need this explained, is shocking. This is the real danger to children. Not old drag queens with story books, not rainbow flags, not lesbian teachers who have a picture of their wedding on their desk: shame, secrecy, and social condemnation.
abfab
Miss DeCrans,
QAnon called and they want you to return to your trailer park at Area 57, ASAP. You rent is over due.
decrans
We all know teachers abuse children. Has happened most of my life. You say two opposing ideas and didn’t clean up your brain mess, Bos. That is the conversation that Americans are having. When these issues come up, how do we ensure kids don’t get abused?
decrans
This is the recurring issue in both threads you refuse to address: the lack of guardrails with children. Psychological assessments or the lack thereof.
decrans
And secondly, what about the teen who was abused by Sharon Needles? In that instance, sexual guardrails were lowered in an ‘anything goes’ environment. Where does that data point align with the other analysis? See if you can dig up some stats on that. I’m working at the moment.
decrans
I’m sorry, you’re suggesting we need to hide relationships from children? So also the straight ones, or just the gay ones? All the fairy tales that end with a happy-ever-after? All the cartoons where the main character is motivated by love? All mentions of marriage and weddings?”
I’d like to see some stats on how many gay relationships meet your variable of healthy? Queerty said it in another post. Substance abuse is high in the gay community. So no, Bos, I think a sizable chunk might throw your invented data askew.
Bosch
Huh! It’s almost like Americans didn’t have role models for healthy gay relationships when they were growing up!
Gosh, if there were only a way to improve that…
decrans
And how do you propose that is accomplished, Bos? In a school system with multi-cultural views? This is a recurring problem with leftism. Lofty ideas without any concrete plans.
decrans
It’s not difficult to understand. If a child thinks that being gay is a sin, they will not speak up about sexual abuse.’ I’d like to see the stats on that one. Seems pulled from your rear end.
dbmcvey
You’re a liar. Everything you post is a lie.
Bosch
This isn’t some kind of grand secret, it’s common knowledge.
Pretending you’re too unaware or stupid to know this is not the flex you think it is.
decrans
I’d like to see you back up your assertions. All over this thread, you make outlandish claims, get cornered and refuse to back up your assertions. You wanna know why? Because they were invented from your collective imagination. That’s not how real-world debates work, buddy. You studied neurology. You should know this.
Bosch
Outlandish claims? Goodness.
I provided you a scientific article which addresses this very phenomenon. Not my fault if you have reading comprehension issues.
Are we meant to believe you’ve never seen one interview or documentary involving victims of church abuse?
decrans
But you said there were studies. You never provide said studies. In a court of law, that is heresay. Do better, Bos.
Bosch
“You never provide said studies.”
Hahaha ok. I guess you just kind of skipped over that post in your partisan rage.
And for goodness sake, my name is all over these messages. How are you still managing to spell it wrong?
decrans
Your studies about religious shame and abuse. They were pulled from your rear, and you have yet to reply three comments later. I spell it ‘Bos’ because I don’t have time for your nonsense. I drop facts. You provide stories and want to pass them off as facts.
abfab
Comment Section Now Closed.
dbmcvey
Lots of lying conservatives here.
Bosch
“I’d like to see some stats on how many gay relationships meet your variable of healthy?”
Decrans, you are really terrible at pretending to be a gay man.
abfab
Didn’t this dotard say he was going back to work at his ”job as a paid Canvasser for the Republicans”?
decrans
As I mentioned before, I came off hormones and started having sex with women.
abfab
TMI you old bitch. You over-share…..seek help for that.
decrans
Bosch is the one who brought up my sexuality, abfab. When you can’t out-argue, you namecall. It’s pretty sad seeing your worldview unravel, I know.