There are just some things we wish we didn’t read going into the weekend. Josh Weed’s op-ed post on Gawker, “I’m a Gay Mormon Who’s Been Happily Married for 10 Years” is one of them.
On Thursday Weed, a family therapist in Auburn, WA, revealed in a 6,000-word post on his own blog that he has carried “same-sex attraction” his whole life and has never been sexually attracted to women, even he’s married to his wife, Lolly, for a decade and claims to have a robust and fulfilling sex life with her.
Perplexed as us—though perhaps less incensed—Gawker gave Weed a chance to ‘splain himself.
What do you mean when you say you’re “gay”?
When I say I am gay or homosexual or same-sex attracted (and I use these terms interchangeably, which is a personal decision) I refer specifically to sexual orientation. I am sexually attracted to men. I am not sexually attracted to women. It is very simple. I have many, many years of experience which confirm this to be true, but it’s really as simple as what a girl asked me in junior high—and I’m sorry if this is a little blunt, but I’ve never found a question that cuts to the heart of the matter more effectively—”so, if everyone in this room took off their clothes, would you be turned on by the girls or the guys?” My answer, which I didn’t say out loud, was unquestionably the guys. And it was unquestionably not the girls. And that still is my answer. It’s really not very complicated. Most people just don’t think about their sexual orientation because they don’t have any reason to.
On this we agree: Whether or not Weed ever acted on his impulses, he’s still gay. But we have a bit of a meltdown when he explains why he’s going public with his sexuality:
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
We have several reasons for opening up about this part of our lives. First and foremost, my clinical work as a therapist is taking me in the direction of helping clients who struggle to reconcile their sexual orientation with their
religious beliefs. I have decided to be open with these clients about my own homosexuality, and in doing so have opened the door to people finding out about this in ways I can’t control.
I am gay. I am Mormon. I am married to a woman. I am happy every single day.The second reason is that the issue of homosexuality is not very well understood. We wanted to add our voice and experience to the dialogue taking place about this very sensitive issue.
Thirdly, I feel the desire to be more open regarding this part of my identity. I have found that sharing this part of me allows my relationships with others to be more authentic. It has deepened my friendships and enhanced my interactions, and it has also helped me to feel more accepted by others as it allows others the opportunity to choose to accept me for who I really am.
So he’s just sharing to share? No agenda or urge to tell other gay Mormons to suck it up and marry a member of the opposite sex? Funny how his job happens to be counseling clients hoping to “reconcile their sexual orientation with their religious beliefs.” But Weed is adamant that he’s not telling others what to do:
Should all gay people who are LDS or Christian choose to marry people of the opposite gender?
I want to make it very clear that while I have found a path that brings me profound joy and that is the right path for me, I don’t endorse this as the only path for somebody who is gay and religious. I will never, ever judge somebody else’s path as being “incorrect” and I know many people who have chosen different paths than myself.If you know and love somebody who is gay and LDS (or Christian), your job is to love and nothing more. Let go of your impulse to correct them or control them or propel them down the path you think is right for them. Do what you need to do to move past that impulse. Do not condemn the choices your loved one makes. Love. Only love. Show your love in word and deed. Embrace them, both literally and figuratively. I promise they need it—and they need to feel like they can figure out this part of themselves in a safe way without ridicule and judgment. It’s what Christ would do. It’s what your loved one needs. Accept them. Love them. Genuinely and totally. This is a moment where whatever your feelings on the subject may be, you are reading the words of a real live person who is telling the truth.
I am not lying to you right now. I have no reason whatsoever to share this with you besides to add a voice to the global discussion so that someone who might feel hopeless and lonely and devoid of role models or voices to trust can find all the information about their options available.
But the reason I do this is because I love you, whoever you are, and I want to share my situation so that you can know further truth: I am gay. I am Mormon. I am married to a woman. I am happy every single day. My life is filled with joy. I have a wonderful sex life. And I’ve been married for ten years, and plan to be married for decades more to come to the woman of my dreams.All of these things are true, whether your mind is allowing you to believe them or not.
We’re not sure if Josh is lying to us, lying to himself or just plain dumb, because obviously he has numerous reasons to make this claim beyond just adding “a voice to the global discussion”:
* He’s a therapist that makes money telling gay people how to reconcile their sexuality and homophobic religion. What better endorsement of his abilities to help you, if not “pray away the gay,” then put it in a little drawer and lock it away, than using himself as the poster child?
Take a look at Weed’s professional profile:
“I specialize in helping individuals and couples combat addiction (both chemical and sexual/pornographic), LGBT issues, ADHD/ADD, depression, OCD, anxiety, and post traumatic stress disorder resulting from abusive situations.
I also help couples who feel as though they no longer ‘connect’ or who don’t feel as close as they once felt. I believe you have the strength to reach your goals, and live a joyful life.
Sexual and pornographic addiction can be a daunting challenge. If this is something you struggle with, we will work together to correct thought-patterns and behaviors that have made you feel trapped. I have seen many people achieve their goals, and would be honored to help you do the same.
I am an LDS therapist who is happy to work from a Christian-based perspective. However, I also see many clients from a variety of belief-backgrounds, including atheism and agnosticism.”
Somehow we think “sexual addiction” might be LDS-speak for homosexuality.
* He needs to affirm his life choices. We’re sure even Weed would admit to a moment or two of doubt in these past ten years, where he wondered if marrying a woman and having children with her was was the right thing to do. He might be telling the world he is “happy every single day,” but he’s also telling himself. We’re not sure if “fake it till you make it” is in the Book of Mo
rmon, but we wouldn’t be surprised.
* He’s got a book out! In a follow-up post on his site, Weed mentions his essay “Vomit: A Story of Romance” is included in a book called Voices of Hope: Latter-day Saint Perspectives on Same-Gender Attraction. (There’s even a convenient link to Amazon!) We know the publishing world enough to know he’s not making fat bank on this essay, but we’re sure Weed would like it to sell well, if only to get his message out.
Look, if this is how Weed wants to live his life, that’s his business. But he’s making it our business by broadcasting how incredibly amazing and happy his life is with his wife, and by counseling gays and lesbians in similar straits.
You want to be a gay man in a straight marriage? Bully for you—but if you tell the world you “have a wonderful sex life” and are “happy every day,” you better be ready to explain honestly how you make that work. Because we don’t think most people reading your words understand the compromises, struggle, sacrifice and disharmony that is a regular part of your life. (Maybe its not coincidental that Weed’s post is in the form of a Q&A where he both asks and answers the questions. Otherwise it might get too real.)
“The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose,” Shakespeare wrote in The Merchant of Venice. “An evil soul producing holy witness is like a villain with a smiling cheek.” We don’t want to call Weed “an evil soul”—he’s more foolish and sad than evil—but his testimony is just as tainted.
Below, Josh and Lolly discuss the reactions to Josh’s online confession.
1equalityUSA
Mormons are wearing out their welcome. If his wife only knew what he was picturing in his head, she would not be as happy as he. Inauthenticity cheats everybody.
Steve
Some people are not entirely homosexual or heterosexual, but somewhere in between.
Some men lie to themselves, and try to live as heterosexuals even after knowing that they are really much more attracted to other men. It’s ok for him to lie to himself. What’s not ok is to harm others in the process.
The American Psychological Association, and other major medical associations, have strongly rejected “ex-gay” therapy as harmful. Attempts to change ones sexual orientation are very likely to harm the individual and his/her family. Encouraging others to attempt to do so, is dangerous and irresponsible.
See, “Just the Facts about Sexual Orientation & Youth”. American Psychological Association. http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/just-the-facts.aspx.
Scribe37
If my partner thought of women to get hard for me, I would be very sad. I don’t really worry about him, but I do feel for the wife a bit. I don’t mind fighting for a guy’s attention with other guys. I eat right, work out, and try to have interesting things to talk about, all so I can be a good catch. There is no way you can compete when your partner doesn’t want the equipment you were born with.
Carl 1
You know, up until the “but the reason I do this…” nonsense, he was pretty much saying what many gay Christians I know say. And then he went off to crazy crazy land. Seriously, how can he be not attracted to women at all and yet have a wonderful and fulfilling sex life? Unless his wedding gift to her was a strap-on…
CosmicDestroyer
So, with enough religious pressure you can pretty much convince people have sex with anything. That must be some damn good Lime Jello.
Lefty
Being gay isn’t just about SEXUAL attraction.
I think he’s giving up a lot more than a completely fulfilling sex life.
But if he’s happy, then he’s happy – I’m pleased for him…
Lefty
Thinking about this some more, though, I have to say…
One does wonder how fulfilling this arrangement is for his wife.
I’m sure she loves him as much as he loves her, but is he denying her the proper fulfillment of a full relationship (one with 100% physical attraction involved from both parties)?
They’re both adults and I realise they probably discussed all this through and came to a satisfactory conclusion, but you know, I can’t help feeling that the set-up here is a result of his trying to “reconcile” his sexuality with his religion… but that’s not his wife’s problem, is it?
Part of me thinks that if someone is that desperately unable to embrace their sexuality, then they should live a life alone, but then again, who knows, maybe they’re both extremely happy?
Good luck to them both I guess – that’s if he doesn’t mess with the heads of the gay people he counsels… otherwise, F*CK him 🙂
Cam
Look, he can over intellectualize all he wants, but what it comes down to, is he just has a marriage of convenience.
Several friends who grew up Mormon told me about these supposed gay support groups. The counselors etc… are always sleeping with the confused young people that come in there. They said that the percentage was extremely high.
So I have no doubt that this guy has a robust sex life as a “Family” therapist. It just isn’t with his wife.
Mark
“Look, if this is how Weed wants to live his life, that’s his business. But he’s making it our business by broadcasting how incredibly amazing and happy his life is with his wife, and by counseling gays and lesbians in similar straits.”
I know this is a touchy subject but i just dont quite see whats so wrong with this. He isnt outright persecuting homosexuals and his professional description doesnt sound like hes trying to “pray the gay away” its just sounds like hes trying to help people come to terms with their sexuality. There isnt some written rule that says you need to fuck and marry what your attracted to. So whats so wrong if he did it, is happy about it, and sharing his joy with other people. Doesnt seem like it would be any different than if i started telling people how happy i am with my husband.
mc
@Mark: His professional bio says he counsels people with gay, lesbian, bisexual & Trans issues. I would think how he feels about his straight marriage would influence how he counsels someone & could possibly do some harm. Also many of the Mormon families with gay children will now use this man as an example for those kids by suggesting see how happy you could be & still stay in the church.
I don’t know if he’s a member, but there’s this group called Evergreen where a ‘questioning’ Mormon is sent to deal with their gay issues. This group consists of gay men in straight marriages. This is pushed as a solution for some. It’s sounds like just a step away from being Reparative therapy.
Anonymous
I can tell you as a Mormon that is a recovering sex addict that sexual addiction is *not* “LDS-speak for homosexuality.” Rather, it’s “LDS-speak” for addiction to pornography, masturbation, and sex, and the vast majority of us that deal with sexual addiction are as straight as an arrow.
Dave
As a Mormon myself, I read his post and found it worry some. Yes, gay Mormons have a choice to make, do they want to act out their sexual urges or do they want to remain Mormons in good standing? This post did little, in my opinion, to help straight or gay Mormons dealing with the internal struggle between what a person believes (faith) and who they are (same-sex attraction). ANYONE that says homosexuals should suck it up and marry a member of the opposite sex is an idiot. God does not require this, the Mormon faith does not require it.
Lets look at this from a few perspectives. First, lets look at the sex part of it. My sister is a devout Mormon and she is straight. In her late 30’s she was still an unmarried virgin. She would cry because she longed for a partner to be physically intimate with, but her faith and her God came first. She understood what it meant to be a single homosexual and a Mormon as she could not act on her impulses either. And, she is not alone. One of my old roommates, a male, is in the same boat. He is also now in his late 30’s and single. Another of my acquaintances is not in his late 50’s and still single. Should they abandon their faith, a part of who they are, and find sexual satisfaction out of wedlock? No, as it wouldn’t make them happy. Should they have a loveless marriage to make God and the Church happy? No, as it wouldn’t make God happy and the Church could careless.
Like a non-practicing homosexual Mormon, they are a member in good standing. Homosexuals should not judge other homosexuals for choosing a faith over their feelings. Catholic Priests and Nuns make a vow of celibacy for life, and we should respect their choices. Likewise, Mormons with same-sex attraction are making a life choice and that choice is theirs to make.
There is a question of why can’t the Mormon Church allow same-sex marriage. We are a religion founded on revelation. The Bible makes it clear that male same sex relations are forbidden and God has not told us to change this. If we allowed it without the Lord’s authorization we would no longer be Mormons. When asked, I encourage people to pray to the Lord for revelation and guidance when they do not like what the Church does. There have been many things the Church has done without revelation that I have stood against (the Prop 8 issue in CA for example) but some things must be done be revelation alone, and defining marriage is one of them for us.
All of that said, there is another perspective – the huge mistake (in my opinion) Mr. Weed made sharing this story. I found out about it when another Mormon (one less open minded than myself) put it on Facebook as “proof” that homosexuals can marry and be happy. This, of course, is a lie. I pointed out that no matter how close I felt to another man, I just couldn’t marry a man nor could I have sexual relations with him. I am, as I like to say, a flaming straight. I do not envy either of these people. Say what they will, they cannot convince me that both sometimes long for someone else with like-minded sexual attraction.
I fear, as many here do as well, that this type of relationship may work for them (who are we to judge?), but this is NOT a one-size-fits-all solution. This is a very rare thing that only a fool would think could happen over and over.
I do applaud Mr. Weed for helping others deal with the harsh realities of the two conflicting lifestyles of being a Mormon with same-sex attraction. This is not an illness that can be “cured” but a realty that a person needs to come to terms with as they are learning who they are and what they want in life. Being a Mormon and being gay are two conflicting lifestyles, like it or not. I’m goth and Mormon, so I deal with the fact that the VAST majority of Mormons around me do not like or accept me for who I am. That doesn’t stop me from attending the temple, going to Church or holding a calling. We all have choices to make. I am glad to see Mr. Weed helping others, though I have serous doubts that his blog post will have very much of a positive affect on either communities.
Jonathonz
At least he’s being honest about it. It wasn’t my decision when I realized I was attracted to men; I decided that being gay was a non-issue and I should be with a man if that’s what I wanted. Clearly Josh Weed decided that he needed to try marriage with a woman in spite of being gay. That’s his decision. My main issue with gay men being with women is that women deserve better. They deserve to be with a man that wants to be with them. They don’t deserve men that will go behind their backs and have sex with other men. It seems like this couple is working out their lives together honestly. Life isn’t perfect and they seem to be dealing with that. Good for them.
joelcannon
“Somehow we think “sexual addiction” might be LDS-speak for homosexuality.”
I understand your suspicion, but I think that Josh Weed makes it pretty clear as a therapist that he is using a traditional definition of the expression.
Somehow we think “sexual addiction” might be LDS-speak for homosexuality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_addiction
As a Mormon, I have more often used/heard the expression in a heterosexual context, but I am sure that it is not limited to just that one orientation, and both male and female, young and old.
“We’re not sure if Josh is lying to us, lying to himself or just plain dumb
I find it interesting that after reading Josh Weed’s full original post, and reading hundreds of comments on his blog, many by his personal friends from facebook, the people who know him best are loving, accepting and supportive. The only backlash I saw was from strangers who projected their own narrow perspective onto him, and tried to fit him and his wife into neat little boxes that made sense to them.
I suggest that this may be a new idea, and that there may be something more than what you already know, understand or have experienced. The world is a wonderfully complex place with many surprises. He ties to make this point by comparing himself to a unicorn. Many resist new ideas, but I would expect this of traditionally conservative minded people – not those who think of themselves as “liberal”. You get to decide if you believe him or will assume he is delusional or deceptive.
I personally respect his courage to share this very personal side of his life and expect it will bring both new challenges and opportunities. I wish him and his family the very best.
Geri
If Josh and Lolly really have a robust and fulfilling sex life together then they must be sexually attracted to each other.
I’m guessing he doesn’t want to say “I’m bisexual” because he doesn’t want people to think he’s a “sex addict”.
But as he insists on saying: “I’m gay” he could at least try and add something thoughtful like: “But my lovely wife Lolly is my exception.”
mattincinci
so over mormons
FunMe
I know a lot of gays who have been able to have sex with a woman when they were young in their 20s. I asked them how they did it, and they all say they imagined having sex with a guy.
Makes sense. After all, a person in their 20s has major sexual hormones that need to be released!
Meanwhile, that queen is gay or bi … but honestly, I just think he’s boring and looking for attention.
Poor “beard” … I mean wife of his.
Anonymous
This is actually more common than you might think (to be a gay Mormon and be happily married to a person of the opposite sex). Here are a few other examples:
http://www.fairblog.org/2011/12/29/fair-examination-5-marriage-to-a-man-with-same-sex-attraction-joshua-alyssa-johanson/
http://www.fairblog.org/2012/01/04/fair-examination-6-overcoming-same-sex-attraction-blake-smith/
http://www.fairblog.org/2011/12/07/fair-examination-2-an-active-lds-mother-with-same-gender-attraction/
http://www.rexgoode.com/?p=131
Geri
@Anonymous: Are there any out bisexual Mormons?
Are there any Mormons who say: “It’s about the person, not the gender” ?
me2
I am a recovering homosexual who escaped the “heterosexual lifestyle”. With love, and the blessings of Priapus, you too can find a normal homosexual fulfilling sex-life with someone of your own gender as the god Priapus has intended for you.
I dare say that there have been many more gay people leaving “straight” relationships than the other way around. Probably a million to one would not be an exaggeration. So…who’s fooling who? Let us also not forget the bisexual who may be legitimately attracted to both sexes, who may repress his same-gender attraction while in a opposite gender relationship who — for whatever wacky religion-based nonsensical reason — may claim to be “cured” and actually be functional with the opposite sex.
But, I think this guy, as the author points out, is just a fame-whore and a charlatan. It’s the Romney-esque, vulture capitalist way of making a buck by any means. Ethics be damned. Such good Christians, eh?
LeoMarius
I was Bro. Weed best of luck with his life choices, but I’ve rejected that paradigm. He can do what he wants with his life, but giving professional advice to pursue a path that has been so destructive to so many is at best unethical. How many in Bro. Weed’s shoes have turned to adulterous affairs with other men that eventually lead to a dissolution of marriage.
If Bro. and Sis. Weed can sort out their lives to their satisfaction, more power to them, but let me add my voice to his in this debate and declare that few find happiness in this path and many, many find only pain for themselves and their families.
PS
@joelcannon:
No, this is not a new idea. LGBT folks marrying straight folks (with or without their knowledge) because of religious/social/family pressure has been happening for centuries, if not longer, to the misery of all involved. This story and many of the “positive” responses to it show a lack of understanding of not just homosexuality, but human sexuality in general. So those of us who question it aren’t narrow-minded, as you suggest, but far better informed than those who seem to be embracing this “unicorn” story.
IzzyLuna
Has he ONCE said that his “healthy sex life” is WITH his wife? Maybe he has sex with men although he’s married to her. And maybe she’s okay with it. That would make more sense.
tom
when he gets older he is going to be fucked in the head
mark
Whatever happened to live and let live? He is not hurting any of us by deciding to live his life this way.
You are attacking him for living his life differently than the gay mainstream. For him, his devotion to his God is more important than sucking cock. Why hate him for that? Why criticize him for that? His wife doesn’t seem to mind, nor does he, yet Queerty insists on ripping him up in what is probably one of the longest blog posts this site has recently posted.
Queerty says: “Look, if this is how Weed wants to live his life, that’s his business. But he’s making it our business by broadcasting how incredibly amazing and happy his life is with his wife, and by counseling gays and lesbians in similar straits.”
This is an incredibly weak argument to justify attacking this guy in this manner. Isn’t this what people say when I hold my boyfriend’s hand when we walk down the street? “It’s fine if they’re gay, but why do they have to walk around looking so damn proud of themselves…”. Give him the same respect you expect for yourself, and leave him alone.
If anything, Queerty sounds threatened by his confidence and ability to make a tough choice for himself. I couldn’t do what he’s doing, but then again, I’m not him.
tookietookie
It helps to have the first half of this story. So You Think You Can Dance champ Season 2, Benji Schwimmer, is a Mormon who lots of Mormons celebrated and supported because they like whenever one gets the celebrity spotlight. It plays to their intense shameless craving for social acceptance.
Back when Benji won, I told my Mormon relatives my gaydar was going off big time about that one, but I was dismissed. Turns out years later Benji comes out and does an interview about the struggles he faced in the Mormon church, including that they keep a file on anyone known to have engaged in homosexual activity, which is a permanent file used to prevent them from working with children (the old gay equals pedo slander that the Boy Scouts like to use, footnote the Boy Scouts and Mormons are in bed together big time in case you didn’t know.)
Benji’s interview is posted here – http://mormonstories.org/350-352-dance-champion-benji-schwimmer/
I sent this link to my relatives, only to have them send back the link to Josh Weed’s blog saying this was going around social networking sites…but no hard feelings, etc, etc.
As a former Mormon, I can tell you Benji’s assertion that the Mormon church is basically a big lie, and the story of their abusive treatment of him, will create shockwaves amongst the rank and file, especially younger Mormons who had cooked up a whole mythology about who he actually was. Furthermore, there are still plenty of young gay Mormon guys who are forced into marriages due to religious pressure (I know of one personally.) The last thing the Mormons want is for their celebrity who was supposed to help mainstream them to turn around and issue a call to all his fellow queens in hiding that hey the Mormon thing ain’t worth it, quit living a lie, leave that girl, and go live your life things are better over here.
Could you imagine? We live in interesting times. A Mormon presidential candidate, and then all these young closet cases leaving their wives… Oh, that would be bad.
So, true to form, the good brethren know this Weed fellow has already invested his marriage in the church. And his profession – picture it, early on he is set up with this woman, the relationship is nurtured and protected in the womb of the church, he pursues mental health because after all he has to figure his own head out…but it is the narrow community of Mormon-approved mental health (with their harmful assumptions regarding sexuality, etc. footnote again – Utah is purported to be one of the leading states for use of Internet porn in the nation. Things to make you think…)
So, the Benji bomb drops, and the good brethren come to this fellow and lean on him to…oddly not go public to his community, people who know him and would care on that basis. But instead the strange choice to go on the Internet and tell…the world! Damage control, damage control for the Mormon church. If he doesn’t agree to it, they might question his commitment to the church. They might think he is questioning his marriage. They already have him over a barrel. Someone like this is living under a strong net of social control mechanisms. There might start rumors. It could hurt his practice. It could hurt his marriage. His kids might lose friends.
Believe me, it ain’t so weird as it sounds. I would bet there’s a back story to this. It didn’t just come out of the blue.
Scott
I wish Josh well but I’ve known many gay men who married women and then came out with a vengeance after the kids were all grown up. I think they’ll be getting divorced and he’ll follow his true heart around the time of his mid-life crisis.
tookietookie
Also, Mormons are all over the Internet like stink on poop. 100% of the time there is a news story or some thing like this that could paint them in a bad light, they come out of the woodwork in the comments section of the article posing as random people who strangely just really think Mormonism is neat-o and totally great, they’ve had only great experiences with them, they immediately see the wonderfulness of their reasoning, and people who think otherwise are reverse bigots, etc.
Hyhybt
Mixed-orientation marriages can work, though the odds are against.
One thing to consider: he may be one of those people whose sexual (strictly speaking) orientation points one way while his emotional/relational orientation points the other. It happens sometimes, and I can only imagine how much trouble that must be… but it pretty well requires choosing one or the other and doing the best you can from there.
mk ultra
GLBT community, please don’t fall for Mormon propaganda.
They are in serious PR mode right now. They are trying to normalize their image. One of the targets is the GLBT community. Over the next couple months they will be hiting us hard with messages like, “we’re not that bad”, “You have nothing to fear from us”, “Our minds and opinions are changing. We’re becoming more accepting”. You’ll hear words like “love”, “acceptance”, “understanding”, “compassion”…
From Mormons attending the Utah pride parade, to this bizzare and highly suspect story, you are being exposed to highly concentrated psychological propaganda.
How many states now ban marriage equality? Around 30? In how many of those states were hate groups involved in passing the ban? Who do you think funds those hate groups?
Spending literaly hundreds of millions of dollars over the years to fight equality. Somehow I see their Pride parade attendance as a token, empty gesture with this in view.
As for Weed, this is just the next step in the ex-gay movement. Become familiar with the narrative and it’s new language: ” We accept and understand that you were ‘born that way’ and can’t change your orientation. BUT! you can change your behavior and actions. We’ll support you while you get over your condition and either chose celibacy or marriage yo the opposite sex. Of course, we would never tell you what to do, but there is an “ideal” choice and that also happens to be God’s choice. Should you not choose it, well then you’ve chosen to give up the rights to marriage”. I have no doubt that the majority of positive posts on his and other web sites are plants.
My major point is, expect lots of nice words and behavior from the Mormon church over the next couple of months. Always remember he message is the same- no gay marriage, no gay “lifestyle. If Romney gets in, expect taxer funded “marriage and family therapists” ( ex-gay clinics) popping up in every state. Anti-deiscrimination laws? Don’t even dream about it. Marriage equality? Out of the question!
tookietookie
@mk ultra: Thank you and yes, yes, yes. This can’t be said enough.
robert
Mormon trash.
Rathje
Interesting how just about all the accusations in this article criticizing Mr. Weed are all unsupported assertions made in a bitter tone.
So Mr. Weed counsels gay male patients to combat their sexuality by marrying women, does he?
Prove it.
So, “sexual addiction” is LDS-speak for homosexuality, is it?
Prove it.
So, he counsels his patients on how to reconcile homosexuality with Mormon belief?
Prove it.
Oh, and one more factoid for your collection:
The LDS Church does not encourage gay men to marry women as a part of dealing with their sexual orientation. They’ve made repeated statements on this matter that this is not advice they support or advocate for. Evergreen and the LDS Church are not the same thing – keep them straight in your head.
Interesting though – how the online gay community immediately forms lynch mobs any time a gay guy says he doesn’t want to perform anal sex. Apparently, at Queerty, tolerance and acceptance are only things you get if you’re willing to “put out.”
pburke
Just wanted to say that I’m glad the writer of this post thoroughly analyzed everything that is wrong with Josh’s story. It’s a shame the writers on other blogs, like gawker, tiptoed around how offensive and insulting Josh’s beliefs truly are. It doesn’t matter that the tone of his language makes him appear understanding, he’s still an enemy of the LGBT community. His story will be used to shame LGBT mormon youth into trying to become “unicorns”. The damaging effect this will have on their lives is on Josh’s hands.
PS
@Rathje: You’re one to talk about bitterness. And what on earth is this about anal sex? Where do you see anyone mentioning that? Here’s a factoid for your collection: many gay men are not into anal sex. In fact, in terms of shear numbers, far more heterosexual couples engage in anal sex than do gay couples. So feel free to pull out and take your prejudice with you anytime now.
danny
It’s funny to see how everytime there’s something that comes out that it’s not completely in line with the way you (people at Queerty) want to live out your homosexuality, then everyone’s wrong. What if I don’t want to go to a gay pride parade because I don’t want to reinforce the stereotype that the LGBT community is a bunch of sex-crazed attention-seekers? What if I believe that you can allow gay marriage but leave the religious mariage up to the discretion of the religious folks?
What this man did is express how he lives his lifestyle, what he has truly found to be the right thing for him. He has his believes and whatever we say cannot change that. He is happy living this way, then fine. You are happy prancing around the streets in your thongs waving your rainbow flags, that’s fine too. But when you start critizing each other because you don’t think the other one should live his life like HE wants, then you have a huge problem.
Stop attacking the poor man for helping other people deal with their issues. Learn to research what the Church’s stand is when dealing with homosexual members, but learn the truth, go to their sources. If I want to learn what the Big Mac taste likes, I don’t go to Wendy’s. And if I enjoy my Whopper, I don’t go to Subway to tell them that they have to sell fries because everyone loves fries and that’s how you should eat a sandwich!
Please, stop hating on people who have different lifestyles if you are trying to make EVERYONE else accept that you live a different lifestyle. By trying to make people treat you “normal” by forcing them to do “special” things, you are only making them treat you DIFFERENTLY!
joelcannon
@PS Of course LGBT marrying a straight folk is NOT the “new idea” that I mentioned (not sure how you would assume that was “new”)!
The idea of “bridling one’s passions” seems like a foreign concept for many leaving comments on this thread (not sure what the lurkers are thinking).
I have been taught that love is multidimensional – and do not equate it to just sexual attraction. I completely understand (and admire) how someone might choose to marry a quadriplegic, or (more easily) abstain from sex before marriage and be completely monogamous (both sexually and emotionally) after marriage. Even if that means not satisfying one’s carnal appetites completely. (I am on a diet, so this is an analogy I can relate to 😉
One way to think of it is to consider the 4 ancient greek concepts that are all translated into “love” in English.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eros_%28concept%29
I formed this impression when I saw people posting comments saying they can’t comprehend how it is possible for Josh Weed to be telling the truth (for himself). I also sense a lack of understanding when people ridicule those that make different choices as they express love in their lives.
I have no doubt that there are people (regardless of sexual orientation) that know much more about love (and everything else) than I do. I confess my very limited perspective on life, and am open to learn and understand more. I hope my choice of words was not offensive – it was not my intention.
tookietookie
@danny: Your analogy is flawed. It’s not that you want to find out what a Big Mac tastes like, so you go to Wendy’s (which by the way eww to all those options.) But you want to know what a Big Mac tastes, so you ask people who have eaten one. To get the truth, you take everyone into consideration, the people who say they enjoy it and the people who say it was gross. Then, you research the ingredients in the food. In which case with Mormonism, it’s the pink goo/sand taco situation all over again.
joelcannon
I can understand how the LGBT dislikes and distrusts Mormons. There are people on both sides with a lot of strong opinions and hard feelings.
I think it is a common mistake to clump any large and diverse group together and then label them all by their most extreme members.
I realize I am a guest in this forum, and I appreciate those that are polite – I would hope to treat you the same if you were visiting my blog. I am representing no one but myself, and don’t expect to change anyone’s mind, but would like to answer sincere questions. I believe that people can get along even if they believe different things – as long as they are respectful. It is a two way street.
I think it is a mistake to treat everyone that disagrees with you as an adversary. I can’ imagine how that could possibly work out. My goal is to understand and be understood.
scottnic
“We’re not sure … somehow we think … we’re sure … we’re not sure … but we wouldn’t be surprised…” … There’s a hell of a lot of speculation in this article.
Disclosures: I was Mormon. I was married to a woman for fifteen years. I’ve quit the church, my wife and I are divorcing, and I’m totally out. I have no love for the LDS church, and I actively and vocally discourage any gay man who’s considering marrying a woman because I believe that 999 times out of a thousand it’s a colossal, horrible mistake that does substantial emotional harm not just to the gay man but to his wife and any kids thy have.
But give me a break… Josh Weed (who I don’t know personally—I’d never heard of him before his blog post blew up) has as much right to share his story as anyone else does, and from my reading of it, he’s done it in the most non-preachy, unassuming way he possibly could.
Yes, I believe that he’s probably deluding himself. I believe that this post is likely part of a continuous effort to convince himself that he’s happy and has made the right choice. I think that it’s sad that he and his wife have both foregone the amazing experience that intimacy based on mutual attraction can be.
And yes, I sincerely hope that he’s not trying to convince his clients that they need to follow his example. But given his disclaimer, I’m inclined to believe that he isn’t—he specifically says that his story should not be seen as an example of how things “should” be—and any assumption to the contrary is just that: an assumption, totally unsupported by what he’s actually written.
It’s horrid that conservatives will latch onto this post as evidence that gay men can be happy in a straight marriage. It’s deplorable that people will browbeat their gay friends and family with this “proof” that they, too, could be happy in a straight marriage if they just tried harder, or had more faith (and yes, I’ve had several friends who have had the story used against them in precisely that way).
But those reactions aren’t Josh’s doing, and he should not be criticized for sharing his story (complete with “don’t try this at home” disclaimers) just because some other assholes will misuse it. And it’s rather petty to be filling in the lines with the least flattering motives and intentions you can possibly ascribe to the man just because he’s chosen a life that you disagree with.
If Josh ever goes on record as recommending straight marriage to a gay man, then please bash the hell out of him. But for now, all he’s done is shared his story (and clarified that he doesn’t consider himself an example), and he doesn’t deserve to be torn to shreds for that.
PS
I really don’t get the quadriplegic analogy, it’s the second time I’ve heard it. Why would you think a marriage to a quadriplegic would be passionless? In any event, it’s not a viable analogy. I can control my craving for mushrooms. I don’t like mushrooms. Forcing me to eat mushrooms isn’t going to kill the chocolate craving either. So it’s not a matter of “bridling one’s passions” if you aren’t attracted to someone in the first place.
Yes, love is multidimensional and not just about sexual attraction. It’s exactly the same for same-sex love relationships. And who you fall in love with is just as much determined by your sexual orientation as who you are physically attracted to. If it wasn’t, straight people would be constantly having sex with their best friends with whom they often have deep feelings of love and commitment.
And saying that “bridling one’s passions” is a “foreign concept” to the people here is just insulting and seems to borrow from the old homophobic rhetoric that same-sex attraction is some sort of deviant compulsion. Maybe that wasn’t your intent. But even if you said to me, I’d be insulted and I’m straight.
PS
Sorry, No. 40 was directed to joelcannon.
tookietookie
@scottnic: He doesn’t operate in a vacuum. You, I, and every other gay person on the planet foresaw the abusive way this story would be used, but he gets some sort of pass? Why? He knew how it would be used, or at least could reasonably predict how it would be used, and he is a card carrying member of that organization. It would be different if he actively and directly disavowed people who misused his story. But he does not because he values the Mormon church over the human rights and mental health of other people who are gay. Heck, he values it over his own marriage! They both freely state that everything else is subjugated to it.
Why was it not sufficient to tell only people they knew, but instead announce it to the world, unless he is some sort of puppet voicing the brainwashed propaganda and once again…once again…the Mormons are jumping around saying, “Don’t look at the man behind the curtain! Nothing to see here!”
mc
@scottnic: Is Josh Weeds, a therapist who on his full professional profiles lists that he counsels people with with gay, lesbian, bisexual & transexual issues & not just sex addiction as he says in his blog, That Naive as to think this was not going to be used to pressure LGBT Mormons into doing exactly what he has done? Anyone could have seen this would be the results.
I find it very, very hard to believe that he would not realize that that’s exactly what would happen. That some poor sometimes suicidal youths comes out to their family & the family shoves Josh & his happy little story into this person’s face as what they should do. If you’re seeing & reading hostility that’s where it’s coming from.
Someone wrote on Josh’s blog, Oh, if only my two gay friends who committed suicide had read your story, maybe they’d have not done so. That’s what’s disturbing, whether intentional or not, people are taking his story as a ‘cure’ for the gays.
To me it’s not so far fetch to consider that this blog is a reaction to the Benji Schwimmer coming out videos that really put Mormonism in a poor light on how they handle their LGBT members. He also discussed how the theology almost encourages suicide as an answer as a way of atoning for being gay.
Ruhlmann
@joelcannon: “Bridling ones passion” whatever that may be is what every human being does everyday to avoid conflict in their lives. Josh isn’t bridling his passion, he is suppressing what is a large part of every human being to conform to his religious upbringing and expectations. He isn’t making a choice so much as he’s employing a life strategy to alleviate the imagined or real fear of the consequences living gay would entail. Fear is the bedrock of religion.
dirty ole man
I was once where this guy was. Married for 25 years. Kinsey scale is real. Most guys can function with the opposite sex. However, in the year 2012 pretending you are straight to yourself is nuts.
Ogre Magi
Mormons are just as shitty as any other Christians
scottnic
I agree that he could do more to disavow those who would use his story to try to coerce others into marrying. I hope he will, and if he doesn’t, then I have no problem with people criticizing him for not doing so.
What I take issue with is all the insinuation in the original post. The suggestion (without supporting evidence) of ulterior motives and sinister purpose is petty, when he has explicitly stated that he “[doesn’t] endorse this as the only path for somebody who is gay and religious” and that he “will never, ever judge somebody else’s path as being ‘incorrect'”, and when he explicitly tells others to “love and nothing more. Let go of your impulse to correct them or control them or propel them down the path you think is right for them. Do what you need to do to move past that impulse. Do not condemn the choices your loved one makes. Love. Only love.”
Look, I get the hatred for the Mormon church. Because of the LDS environment I was raised in I spent the first 34 years of my life fervently denying one of the core attributes of my being. Because of the Mormon church I found myself in an impossibly shitty situation (gay, and finally accepting of that, but with a wife and five kids who I felt responsible for).
I’ve been extraordinarily lucky—my wife was accepting and understanding (we’re still good friends), my kids have been fantastic… my life is pretty damn amazing right now, but I recognize that I’ve had it better than many married men, and that a lot of Mormons (married or not) have serious issues to work through, both in their own emotions and thought processes and in their relationships with family and friends.
I get that the Mormon church screws its gay members up. And I get that the gay community at large has been seriously screwed over as well, thanks to the LDS church’s involvement in the Prop 8 campaign (and in other marriage equality battles).
I get hating the church, and I get hating any member of the church who expresses (or enacts) bigotry and homophobia. I even recognize that the bigoted members far outnumber those who aren’t bigoted.
But in my opinion none of those facts justify the condemnation of an individual (or group) who has not been explicitly homophobic or bigoted, and I just don’t see that Josh Weed has been.
Yes, he believes in Mormonism to such an extent that it has shaped his life in a way that most Queerty readers would disagree with. That’s unfortunate, from my point of view, but he finds fulfillment in that belief, and it’s not my right to question that.
But he’s not a typically homophobic Mormon. He obviously believes that the choices he has made are “right” (in god’s eyes), and of course in telling his story that belief is going to come through. But he carefully avoids claiming (let alone insisting) that his understanding of homosexuality and same-sex intimacy is (or should be) universally applicable. He explicitly declares (probably despite some belief otherwise) that he doesn’t expect others to make the same choices as he has made, and that he doesn’t judge those who choose differently. He clearly instructs his readers to abandon judgement, discard attempts to control or criticize, and to just step back, and love, and let gay people find their own paths.
He’s not a friend to the out-and-proud gay cause, but he’s not an enemy either. Save the vitriol for the Maggie Gallaghers and Boyd Packers—the people who actually and actively judge and condemn and fight to oppress the gay community.
I’m not saying the article shouldn’t be discussed—on the contrary, I think that an article like this should be responded to with a hundred stories of failed mixed-orientation marriages. And his clearly-stated motivations (belief in Mormon doctrine) deserve to be scrutinized and criticized, just as his clearly-stated actions (marrying a woman) deserve to be. But his character and his undeclared (and therefore entirely speculative) intentions do not, and these worst-possible-assumption attacks do discredit to a group that is itself asking for acceptance and fair treatment.
scottnic
Apologies for the length of my comment. Brevity has never been my strong suit.
mk ultra
We have to familiarize ourselves with the new language and tactics of the ex-gay movement.
If you want a crash course, read Weed’s blog. That is what the ex-gay movement looks like today.
Don’yt fool yourself for a second that he says “I’m not trying to convince anyone to choose my path.”
Don’t believe the ” I hope jobody uses my example to prove you can live a straight ( “ideal”) lifestyle”.
That is exactly the intent.
I’m serious. Read Weed’s blog carefully.
Get used to the terminilogy and arguments. You’re going to hear alot their double talk from now until the election.
“we accept you but we don’t accept you.” .”you are free to make your own choices. Of course if you don’t make the right choice, you don’t deserve rights or protections.”. “opposite sex or celibacy”
This is propaganda, people.
pburke
@scottnic:
Did you even read the queerty post? How do you interpret this from Josh’s blog: “First and foremost my clinical work as a therapist is taking me in the direction of helping clients who struggle to reconcile their sexual orientation with their religious beliefs”? Josh has stated that he thinks being in a gay relationship is a sin, so how do you think he is counseling his LGBT patients? Do you think he would tell them to do something he thinks is so abhorrent that he classifies it as a sin?
Over at gawker someone asked him what he would say to a gay LDS client, and all he said was that he has to help them look at their options. He won’t say what that means, but I’m guessing it’s the option of either remaining celibate or entering a heterosexual relationship. Josh won’t admit it outright for PR purposes I’m sure, but all signs point to him being an ex-gay therapist. Did you check out the link to the book his essay is in? I read the intro over at amazon, which is written by Ty Mansfield. It states that the book is about adhering to LDS doctrine and learning how to not act on being gay. So yes, Josh is very much the enemy, every bit as Maggie Gallagher and Boyd Packer.
pburke
@scottnic:
Should also mention that over at gawker Josh said that he is “skeptical” about gay marriage. He’s very careful never to take a firm position on anything.
scottnic
@pburke: Yes, I read the post.
I know LDS therapists who are able to set aside personal beliefs when they counsel their patients. I even had a therapist employed by the LDS church (“LDS Family Services”) recommend to me that I divorce my wife and date men. There is no reason to assume that Josh Weed is not capable of doing the same thing, unless he (or a client) gives us reason to believe otherwise.
A gay person who grows up in a religious household WILL “struggle to reconcile their sexual orientation with their religious beliefs”, and “helping clients” with that struggle does not inherently mean advocating for “ex-gay” approaches. I know a handful of therapists in Salt Lake City who specialize to some extent in helping resolve these sorts of conflicts, who most certainly DO NOT advocate celibacy or mixed-orientation marriage as the only options (or even as acceptable options).
“I’m guessing” … “all signs point to”… You’re trashing a man based on assumptions. I don’t imagine you appreciate it when someone assumes you’re [a sexual deviant, incapable of monogamy, etc.] just because you’re gay (assuming you are). Assuming lack of professional ethics and hidden ulterior motives of someone just because he’s Mormon is no different.
My story is in a generally Mormon-positive book too: Gay Mormons?: Latter-day Saint Experiences of Same-Gender Attraction. When I submitted the story I had already quit the church, and my wife and I were separated. I hoped that my story (and the others in the book) would put a face on the subject of homosexuality and help people (particularly active Mormons) consider that the issue is not as black and white as they might assume. Does the fact that I have an essay published in a Mormon-friendly book about “same-gender attraction” mean that I am also “very much the enemy”?
PS
@scottnic:
I first read this article when it was reposted by a Mormon friend. I’ve spent all weekend thinking about it, and I’ve got to say that I had almost every thought that was in this in the queerty article. And I’ve defended my Morman friends to my gay friends. But this has really woken me up.
There’s no reason for him to share this with the entire planet if the intent wasn’t to try to influence other people. And yes, I read all those feel-good comments about supporting gay people. But he also is very definitely not only holding up his story as an example to be followed, but he also clearly states that to live any other way as a gay man is not only sad, but a sin. It is cleverly written and there are many spoonfuls of sugar to help get his distasteful message down, but that distasteful message is ultimately what is at the core of this. And that bad taste lingers on long after the sweetness wears off, because it’s the negative messages that have the most staying power.
From Weed’s original story:
“I have no reason whatsoever to share this with you besides to add a voice to the global discussion so that someone who might feel hopeless and lonely and devoid of role models or voices to trust can find all the information about their options available.”
“One of the sad truths about being homosexual is that no matter what you decide for your future, you have to sacrifice something. It’s very sad, but it is true.”
“Being gay does not mean you are a sinner or that you are evil. Sin is in action, not in temptation or attraction. I feel this is a very important distinction. This is true for every single person. You don’t get to choose your circumstances, but you do get to choose what you do with them.”
PS
@scottnic: “Assuming lack of professional ethics and hidden ulterior motives of someone just because he’s Mormon is no different.” I think you are oversimplifying things in order to win your point. There are many people here aren’t flat out rejecting his story just because he is a Mormon, as you suggest. They are outlining their points without trashing him as you put it. Critical doesn’t equal trashing. Of course, there will always be some people who are just going to act trollish, but that’s the nature of the internet and prevalent regardless of the topic.
joelcannon
@Rathje I agree with your first points, but the presentation is contentious and counter productive. The last paragraph was especially offensive and no better than the comments you reference. I can’t believe you would say something like that to someone face to face.
@danny, – Again – your valid points are lost in the disrespectful tone of your post. I can’t speak for others, but it made me feel uncomfortable.
@ scottnic – I understand what you are saying and agree that many of the comments are unfair to Josh Weed.
@ Ruhlmannn and PS – I see I did not communicate my idea (my fault). Bridle one’s passion” appears to be an LDS expression. If you did not understand the Josh Weed story, it could be just a culture difference.
Here is an article that offers more insight. http://www.lds.org/ensign/1994/02/bridle-all-your-passions ”
Here are some comments that give me the impression this is a foreign concept (I would not assume that everyone is taught the same morality growing up)
“So I have no doubt that this guy has a robust sex life as a “Family” therapist. It just isn’t with his wife.
“After all, a person in their 20s has major sexual hormones that need to be released!
“Has he ONCE said that his “healthy sex life” is WITH his wife?
pburke
@scottnic:
Was the therapist who told you to leave your wife also a gay person in a heterosexual relationship like Josh?
If Josh is counseling LGBT clients to accept themselves and enter homosexual relationships, why won’t he just come out and say so instead of offering vague answers about “options”?
I think you assume alot about him yourself. You think he’s a good guy because of your own background.
LGBT people have every right not to trust a religious organization that has thrown so much effort into denying them their rights and tried to “fix” them with horrible reparative therapies. Not to mention all the suicides they’ve caused by convincing vulnerable LGBT people that their inherent nature is sinful. Look at the recent example of Michael Bryan Egnew. Do you think his life would have ended so tragically if he did not belong to a religion that condemned his homosexuality? A few declarations of supposed “love” aren’t going to undo all the damage they’ve done.
And yes, if you contributed to that book and continue to be a Mormon apologist, you are the enemy. Maybe you should stop blaming the LGBT people who have been victimized and start criticizing those religious communities that are doing the real harm.
scottnic
@PS: “There are many people here aren’t flat out rejecting his story just because he is a Mormon, as you suggest. They are outlining their points without trashing him as you put it. Critical doesn’t equal trashing.”
You’re right, and I have no problem with critical discussion of the post, or even of Weed’s possible motivations in posting it.
What bothers me are the sorts of statements I’ve already indicated (both in the original post and in some of the comments): “We’re sure that…” “somehow we think…” “we wouldn’t be surprised…” “I’m guessing…”
These statements go beyond critical discussion of possible motives and leap right to assuming knowledge of the worst possible intent.
Okay: I worry that Weed lets his clear opinions about same-sex intimacy affect his interaction with his clients, and that he may be doing harm to conflicted gay men by presenting his own experience as an ideal to attain to
Not okay (in my opinion): Weed is obviously an ex-gay therapist who only posted this article so that he rope more clients into his deluded idea that straight marriage is the ideal
…and to me, the original post seemed like a lot more of the latter and a lot less of the former.
pburke
@PS:
Thanks, you said it better than I could.
Macmantoo
I know where he is coming from. I am gay and have always been gay. I got married for 7 1/2 years to the most wonderful woman I’ve ever met. We were compatible in every way EXCEPT sexual. Finally I accepted the fact that if I wanted sex I couldn’t be married to her. That was 27 years ago. We are still friends and talk when we can. I have had the same lover for the last 9 years and we’re as close as my ex-wife and I were. He accepts her as a friend of mine.
If that what this guy wants then more power to him. I find it to be very hard not having the sex in order to be fullfilled. Some people take their religion very seriously as we have noticed more of late with the rants from the right wing idiots.
scottnic
@pburke: “You think he’s a good guy because of your own background.”
No, I assume he’s a good guy because I tend to assume that of everyone until they give me clear reason to be otherwise.
“LGBT people have every right not to trust a religious organization…”
I wholeheartedly agree. Don’t trust the Mormon church—I certainly don’t. But I know quite a few Mormons who disagree—with varying degrees of vocality—with the Mormon church’s position on homosexuality, and so I don’t judge the members of the church on the policies of the organization itself, I judge them on their words and their actions.
“And yes, if you contributed to that book and continue to be a Mormon apologist, you are the enemy.”
I make no apology for the Mormon church, and I have not done so since accepting myself as a gay man and coming out (in July 2008). I participated in protests against Prop 8. I vocally criticized the church’s stance on homosexuality, and would have been excommunicated for doing so if I hadn’t resigned first.
While the book in general is church-friendly, my chapter is not. But it’s not church-negative either, because overt negativity would cause active Mormons to immediately dismiss my story. The target audience of the book is active Mormons, and the intent of the book is to give lie to the notion that gay people are any different than straight ones in any way that matters. If my participation in that effort and my contribution to the book make me “the enemy”, then so be it.
“Maybe you should stop blaming the LGBT people who have been victimized and start criticizing those religious communities that are doing the real harm.”
Please show me where I have “blamed” LGBT people for anything other than judgementalism and pettiness. And please refer to my multiple comments in this thread where I acknowledge the harm that the Mormon church has done without apology.
We lose “victim” status and become no better than “the enemy” when we succumb to the temptation to use the same tactics of assumption, stereotype, and defamation that they use.
scottnic
@pburke: “Was the therapist who told you to leave your wife also a gay person in a heterosexual relationship like Josh?”
No, she was actually a straight woman who has been married to a gay man for 35 years.
PS
@scottnic: “Not okay (in my opinion): Weed is obviously an ex-gay therapist who only posted this article so that he rope more clients into his deluded idea that straight marriage is the ideal.”
Ok, but how does that get to “Assuming lack of professional ethics and hidden ulterior motives of someone just because he’s Mormon is no different”? It might be a strong accusation, but the reasons why the author came to this conclusion is laid out. It’s not some random attack on the guy. I don’t think you are applying the same critical eye to Weed’s post as you are to the responses to it.
scottnic
@scottnic: “No, she was actually a straight woman who has been married to a gay man for 35 years.”
And what she told me, specifically, was “I believe that it’s possible to find happiness in a mixed-orientation marriage, but it seems to me that you are less happy in your marriage than you could be with a man, and that your wife is less happy than she could be with someone who is in love with her. I believe you will both be better off if you end your marriage and seek more meaningful relationships.”
Professionalism can trump personal belief. Not saying that it does in Weed’s case, because I’ve never had a session with him or heard from anyone who has. Just saying that “happy in his own mixed-orientation marriage” does not necessarily imply “counsels his patients to get mixed-orientation-married”.
PS
@pburke: I’d reply with a smiley face, but it seems inappropriate right at the moment…
scottnic
@PS: “Ok, but how does that get to ‘Assuming lack of professional ethics and hidden ulterior motives of someone just because he’s Mormon is no different’?”
You’re right. I over-simplified my statement, and I retract it. I don’t recall anyone making the accusations they’ve made purely because Weed is Mormon.
I do still maintain that the original post and some of the comments have crossed the boundary of “critical discussion” into “unfounded accusation based on unsubstantiated assumption”.
(And I might still be inclined to believe that Weed’s religious affiliation contributes to the tendency to make such accusations, even if it is not the sole reason behind them).
PS
@scottnic: Of course you’ve got no reason to believe me, but again, I came to virtually all the same conclusions based on Weed’s actual post and the Morman reaction to it and not because of the religious affiliation. Actually, it’s Weed’s post and the support of it that now is making me question the church’s role in all this. I think you are spending too much time boxing with the messenger(s) rather than considering the messages.
scottnic
@PS: If you say the “Mormon” think didn’t influence your reaction at all, I believe you.
And you’re probably right that the effort I’ve put into this discussion could more productively be put elsewhere. If it makes any difference, I have tried to counter the article’s point of view a couple dozen times on Facebook, whenever a friend or family member has posted it. As I said in an earlier comment, I believe mixed-orientation marriage is a horrid idea and I’m very active and vocal in discouraging it (and debating anyone who appears to be encouraging it) whenever given the opportunity.
I suppose I do feel some sympathy for Weed, because I’ve been…. well, not quite where he is, because I decided the LDS church was wrong about homosexuality pretty quickly after admitting to myself that I am gay, and because I’ve never been quite as viral as he has…
…But three or so years ago, despite my conviction that the LDS church was wrong, I was still making an honest effort to see if I could make my marriage work, simply because I felt it was the responsible thing to do. I was an active blogger with a few hundred regular readers, and some of the responses that some of my posts got were (in my opinion) excessively vitriolic and unnecessarily critical of me (as an individual—not just of my choices).
So perhaps I have a soft spot in my heart for people who appear to be doing the best they can to make the choices they believe to be right when they face harsh criticism. =)
I do appreciate the respectfulness of the discussion, and I have, believe it or not, gained some valuable new perspectives from it.
PS
Well, it’s tough to be in the middle. As I said, I’m straight but keep trying to dispel misconceptions one way or another. And believe me, I’ve been attacked for it in very personal ways. But to some extend, that is the nature of internet. I actually think most of the responses here have been pretty civil. But I also think you need to need to allow a little more latitude to the people who have the most at stake, and that’s the LGBT community, not the church.
Yeah, you ex-straight guys tend to respond on a really emotional level toward each other. 🙂
Adam
*Yawn* Big deal this is just a marriage of convenience and for show. It sounds like BS that he’s happy and yeah it wouldn’t be surprising if he does have sex with other men.
PS
@Adam: So much for the middle.
pburke
@scottnic:
We’ll have to agree to disagree about Josh’s intentions. It seems rather convenient that, according to his professional profile, he helps “those with sexual identity issues and unwanted sexual attractions and/or behaviors” and he happens to be a gay man in a heterosexual relationship. I’d also be less wary of him if clearly came out and said that he believes it can be better for gay people to be in homosexual relationships. Instead he just says that his path isn’t right for everyone and that he believe acting on one’s homosexuality is a sin. There are also many posts on his blog from gay people saying that he gives them hope that they can have a heterosexual relationship like his. And some are from parents like this one:
“I’m a young mom, Close to you alls age, Mormon, in Utah, and livin’ the normal person dream with a girl and two little boys. In the back of my mind I worry about a child being gay (or autistic or being kidnapped… you know mother fears). How would I react, what do you say, is their life “ruined”. I’m an open-minded person but the whole issue would be a lot harder with my own babies! I feel like this was a wonderful article; true, honest, real, and up lifting – it’s so nice to see that you, the unicorn, does exist, and if any of my babies are gay then maybe they can be unicorns too. Does that make sense? What I’m saying is this took a little of the fear about of being a mom. Thanks for that. Your story is beautiful and I’m excited to share it with a few people.”
So now thanks to Josh this woman believes if her children are gay that they can be ex-gay “unicorns” just like him.
scottnic
@Adam: I’d actually be very surprised if he’s been unfaithful to his wife, because I understand the Mormon mindset and how powerful it can be in defining actions.
I never so much as held hands with a guy until my wife and I agreed to redefine our relationship to allow for outside intimacy (the first step that led us to eventually conclude that we’d be better off separating).
Contrary to popular stereotype, it is possible for a guy who’s sufficiently motivated to keep his cock in his pants. =)
Let's be real here
I’m sure this guy hooks up with A LOT of men in secret on Craigslist.
PS
@Let’s be real here: How do you know for sure? Did you answer one of them?
Randall Reynolds
Good for you, Josh! Now keep it to yourself, considering you are hindering the Gay Rights movement.
Brian Bowen
This guy is reading all the ex-gay cue cards and only telling folks what he thinks will get our attention….and it worked.
Can we stop giving it to him now, please? Thanks!
mk ultra
The Mormon church is the ENEMY of LGBT people.
Don’t buy their garbage propaganda or their paid propagadists that go around arguing for them on comment boards like this.
No matter what RHETORIC they use, don’t believe it for a second.
Don’t for a second fall victim to pretty lies about “understanding”,”love”, “changing attitudes” etc…
The message is loud and clear: the “gay lifestyle” is not “the ideal” <——- huge buzzword associated with the ex-gay industy. If you do't accept "the ideal?" ( celibacy or opposite sex marriage), we' ll abandon you and pay hundreds of millions to fight against your rights.
Weed is sick and malicious. It's disgusting that he wears the mask of naivity whe he knows EXACTLY what he's doing.
I doubt he's even ever had a gay thougt.
Expect more of this garbage PR pandering.
NOTHING HAS CHANGED. The Mormon opinion remains NO GAY MARRIAGE! even for those outside their faith.
No gay rights or protections. No equality. Remember, everything they publically say or do is propaganda.
In fact, they' like to set up ex-gay clinics, like the one Weed works at, and don't fool yourselves. Tht is EXACTLY what it is, all over the Country.
They'd like to re-instate DADT! and strengthen DOMA.
This id the new and improved, friendlier approach to the anti gay movement. Same deadly poison, but wearing a smile and speaking of love and compassion.
It's late 1920's Germany and the Nazis are telling us "Look, we even march in your Pride parade. You have nothing to fear from us…."
DavidW
This guy stinks- My two gay uncles were together for 35 years, one Mormon, one Baptist. This closet case makes a mockery of being truthful to your spouse. Sure he claims to have fulfilling sex with his wife, but how fulfilling is it when you have to think about having sex with a man to get it up and running to get on with a woman? As for the Mormon religion, I know they side step the Bible with the Book of Mormon, but doesn’t Christ say “The truth will set you free”? As to helping others, I don’t think so. He’s just justifying his own self hate for the sake of his Mormon religion. He needs to stop screwing with other people minds for the sake of his own problem of not excepting himself as a gay man. What’s next? Based on his Mormon religion, is he going to try converting black people to be white? Just because they publically say they accept black people, does not always reflect what you hear in the wards (their type of church).
Avenger
@mk ultra: Then I’m voting for Romney!