Hang out on Reddit long enough, and you’ll eventually see transphobic attitudes show up—explicitly and implicitly—in queer communities on the platform. And social media is, of course, a microcosm of society—one in which some think LGB equality is an acceptable substitute for LGBT equality.
One Reddit user recently shed light on transphobia in the gay male population. That user, a 27-year-old trans man, said that although he loves being gay and trans, his interactions with cis gay men “[have], by and large, been less than ideal.”
That user continued: “I won’t get into any of the gritty details, but it’s usually enough to the point that I’ve left gay men’s spaces, clubs, apps, etc. I’ve met some really lovely cis gay men as well, but most often the transphobia is so frequent and so casual, that I feel very ostracized by a community who I assumed would have my back. I find myself wondering if I can even be a part of this community.”
‘Beyond The Aggressives’ is a fascinating look at how far we’ve come—and just how far we still have to go.
Unfortunately, some of the comments on that post were invalidating if not straight-up transphobic.
Thankfully, other people on the thread spoke up and offered words of wisdom.
“I think that we as gay men should understand what it’s like to be in a community that is constantly under attack—which means that we shouldn’t attack any other community,” one Redditor wrote. “I don’t tolerate transphobia at all. We should all be kind to each other.”
Another commenter said, “Personally, I try to combat it when I see it. Call out behavior that’s transphobic or honestly shame people when they say gross sh*t. Trans men deserve better and to be respected as the men they are, especially by gay men. … We as cis gay men should help combat transphobia and defend trans men when we see things happening. If no one does anything, it’ll keep happening—gotta uplift and protect our trans brothers.”
A third Reddit user said people with authority can shut down transphobia more easily. “As an example, the current artistic director of the Twin Cities Gay Men’s Chorus has used his position to be an ally by writing and having them perform songs about trans experiences, putting together musical programs about intersectionality of all kinds, and generally making his own views about intolerance well known,” that user wrote. “In the time he has been director, some long-term members of the chorus have gained the courage to come out as enby or trans, and others have also joined, which in turn leads to many more cis gay men getting to know trans people as one of ‘us’ rather than one of ‘them.’”
And someone else dropped a history lesson: “I once had a gay man tell me that the trans community was ‘holding us back.’ I was like, no, it’s that attitude that’s holding us back,” that Redditor wrote. “We of all people should treat everyone respectfully and how we want to be treated. There’s no need to attack members of our own community, especially those members who have been with us in the trenches since the beginning.”
If you’d like to supercharge your trans allyship after reading those rallying cries, check out GLAAD’s list of best practices.
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OMG Spare Us! What about the homophobia from the trans community? Cis male this and cis male that? There’s good reason even the LGB community has had enough of this crap.
Agreed. There is no such thing as a “cis” male. It’s male. Do trans people really find it shocking that a man, who wants to have relationships with other men, do not want to have a relationship with a woman who’s trying to act like a man? She doesn’t have the right parts. They try to guilt people into having s@x with them and then attack you if you say no.
You must have a difficult time making friends in general then from the sound of it. B/c I don’t care what parts a person does or does not have to be my friend, so long as they treat others respectfully.
@Delta, @Shaver: Agreed. It’s getting to the point where we have “men, women and cismen and ciswomen” for some reason. The way “penis and uncircumcised penis” has been an irksome convention. Soon, it’ll be “Truemen” and “Truewomen” -vs- cismen and ciswomen.
I had hoped that transpeople and LGB could stand together against the bigots who see us as one and the same, but that hope is fading. Transpeople are not the same as LGB, they do not have the same beliefs and they do not have the same goals. Those goals involve “helping” LGB people, who in their opinion are confused about their gender, to “transcend” to their “true” trans, nbee, pan and other queer identies. Even if they have to drag cis people there kicking and screaming. Such blessings!
But in the real world, male and female are biological facts. Man, boy, woman, girl, etc., are negotiable identities. I used to think it was enlightened to accept that “some men have vaginas” as well as “some men are female”. Or that “some women have penises because they are male”. But no, that’s heretical to the trans doctrine. Penises and vaginas stand in defiance of their gender identities, so these must be cut away, and ‘cis’ people will smile, nod and keep their mouths shut if they know what’s best for them. Induce the public to say “gender” when they mean “sex” to muddy up the waters strategically.
Don’t overlook the fact that most transpeople consider themselves straight. Like LGB, they’ve been called homophobic slurs and hate it as much as, if not more than LGB people do because deep down inside they always “knew” they’re not THAT. Identifying as trans, they may NEVER have to come to terms with their sexuality the way LGB people do. Some of them hate LGB people as much as the homophobes, because LGB people are, ya know, DISLOYAL to the trans cause. It’s the LGB people who are delusional about their nature, right? Boys can’t be attracted to other boys! That’s not normal like it is for girls!
They hate LGB people who opened their arms to them because LGB people represent a temptation that will lure fresh, beautiful new transkids away from the light, and into their deprecated “sick and unnatural” cult of binary sex perversion. Their thanks came in the form of driving out all “transphobic” old dinosaurs from LGBTQIA++ organizations, and wearing them like a skin suit. Issuing the new truth through all media outlets about how through all history, it was really transgender people doing all the great things and not lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, heteroflexibles, transvestites, drag queens, and drunk frat boys.
I would be highly interested in seeing the list of “74 Genders” amended to include a description of what kind of surgery each would require for proper “affirmation”.
Thank you. I fully agree. Lets differentiate transactivists from gender dysphoric trans sexuals. The latter criticize the former more than LGB people do. Is it wrong for LGB people to look out for their own interests and try to keep the rights so many fought for? Trans don’t like LGBT, they want to change it to TLGB. If we lose our rights that were fought so hard for thats on the transgender community.
@ s.anderson and @Ken A. This seems to be a two way street though. The LGB Alliance are out there saying that Trans men are just lesbian women that have been poorly supported in coming to understand their sexuality. I have not come across any trans homophobia. In my experience trans individuals are clear on the difference between sexuality and gender identity and are supportive of the general concept of each to there own and rights for all.
I worry that there is divide and conquer movement looking to change back the efforts made in moving forward. I have never seen anything where tans people are say the community should be TLGB, thats typical disinformation propaganda.
@dwick: I don’t think anyone’s said “cis is homophobic” but perhaps you missed that plenty of people do object to being called ‘cis’. When they object to it, but someone persists on doing it, probably while sneering, then it’s an aggression. Like calling someone “trans” or “girrrrl” or “homo” or “Queer” when they’d really prefer not to be.
enough you sound like the christian community whining about being mistreated and needing. religious liberty laws. This is BS. This is playing into the. far right agenda of separating us into smaller groups to then pick us off. This strategy was on not one but two different hidden camera. takes at different far right groups meetings. At Stonewall it was men women trans drag and hustlers and it wouldn’t have happened if we all hadn’t been in it together. I dont know how much. this truly enters into your life to bother you so much. Be honest how many trans people do you encounter tat often? be honest
@barryaksarben: I wouldn’t expect these comments to accurately reflect all walks of life, just those of a small group who are outspoken and who have taken up residence here on Queerty. For that matter, this is exactly the kind of party Queerty throws here for just this reason.
Sounds to me that one person is using different moniker to support what some idiot says. Sounds like a lot of hate to me. We’re all in the same boat, trans, gay, bi, lesbians-we all hated for who we are. But then you throw in a bunch of idiotic trolls who comes into the site and spread their hatred.
How about the misogyny from the trans brigade? Just make this nonsense stop. Scream all you want; you can’t make something true that isn’t just because you want it to be.
Lets ask JK Rowling, Germaine Greer and Buck Angel – all accused of being TERFS. If they had the courage of their convictions in their true and just cause dissent would be allowed and they never would have had a reason to invent TERF. Being trans is valid in and of itself and demanding erasure by inclusion in the pre-existing categories of man and woman is internalized transphobia. What’s wrong with being trans such that you would negate yourself by that erasing action.
Buck Angel is a two-faced grifter. She talks from both sides of her mouth. A lot of the problems we are having today with young girls transitioning to become gay men are a direct result of her and her homophobic conversion pornography that she still promotes to this day. Predatory women rarely get called out in the trans community.
The problem is the trans activists don’t just want to be acknowledged. Most gay men really don’t care if someone wants to transition, not my business, but the problem comes up when that F2M then demands gay men accept them as other gay men. You’re really not a gay man. And it gets worse when they appear to demand gay men sleep with them.
“but the problem comes up when that F2M then demands gay men accept them as other gay men.”
I’ve literally never heard a singular transperson say anything remotely like that. Whether personally or in any media.
And to your second point. the ones who on grindr tried to pressure me into sex were troll accounts. Likely set up by people like yourself to generate this narrative so you can repeat it here, as if it were true, to continue to sew hate and dissention among the community. Furthermore, I doubt you get many propositions anyway.
Go on socials (especially on Twitter) and will see TQ activists insults women and gay if they dare to say that MTFs are biological men and that homosexuality is same-sex attraction. They hate women and homosexuality, this is the sad truth
And not only on social media, but also in reality with the attack on J. K. Rowling
for having said a scientific banality. feminists attacked by TQ in Australia, lesbians kicked out of prides, the attack on Fred Sargeant etc. The modern TQ movement is insane. Denying it is useless.
shave you are so full of it. your transphobia is always on display here. I dont judge all gays based on our most prominent activists. I did not agree with Larry Kramer all the time but I respected him and never would have thought to just disregard his opionion or claim he wasnt part of the community. There is way too much anti feminine in our society that anything that appears or wants to appear. more feminine is wrong and that is BULL. You can want your straight acting guys only but it doesnt mean we have to throw our trans brothers and sisters under the bus BECAUS to most straight haters we are all sick and wrong and they couldn’t care one tiny bit if you are attracted to butch only – to them you are as sick as any trans person. we must stick together so be a man and suck it up, you dont have to like them or sleep with them to understand that their struggle is our struggle
ROFL. That from the group that took JK Rowling, and turned her into a TERF even after she said, “I stand with the trans community…” but had the temerity to say she wasn’t a person who menstruated but a woman.
It is ridiculous. None of these old entitled white gay men have ever met any trans people and so they are basing their opinions and it is just their OPINION on social media. I know more than a few trans men and women and none have ever attacked me for misgendering but have been polite in their correcting me and my self esteem is big enough for me not to be offended for not knowing something. This anti trans crap and the anti feminine crap are the same. IF their sense of masculinity is that fragile that they are threatened by the incredibly few trans people out there to FN bad. The right is trying to separate us into smaller groups to then attack each one. and even that doesnt matter as much as they are sexual outlaws like all of us. I get sick of gay men who think because they appear respectable to some straight people they think. they have figured something out, they haven’t. Most straight people. do not care if you sleep with only straight looking men or the most feminine of drag queens you are still a sick queer to them. when you put a dick in your mouth you are a sick vile person as the good christians in our society think we are. The religious freedom laws which give them the right to discriminate wont care if you are trans or the straightest presenting gay man ever you are still gay. YOuact like trans people are out there waiting to ponce on you which they arent and you should go out and actually MEET one and ask them about themselves and quit acting like the hate filled homophobes. grow up
FTMs are biological women, this is a fact. Gays are homosexuals, a person who is exclusively attracted by their own sex. It’s not transphobia, it’s part of our homosexual nature not to be attracted to vaginas and biological women. Insulting gays who only want real men and who refuse to put it in a vagina is practically conversion therapy promoted by progressive moviment. This homophobic crap needs to stop.
I only treat “badly” those who insult me for not wanting to put it in their vaginas (that’s most of them). The TQ movement is making us regress with their senseless BS. If you can’t see it, it’s not my fault.
To be honest, I know a lot of trans women. I don’t have to understand them to support their choices. I get that. But with the exception of just one of them, I dislike them all. They are self-centered and mean to everyone in their lives – particularly their super supportive mothers…for some reason. They are not nice people. Interestingly, I think you pro-trans people don’t even know a trans woman personally. Doesn’t stop you from forcing you theoretical views on others though. Kind of disgusting how you talk to people. Just like them.
I personally know several trans people and I’m far and away from being “pro” anything. What I am is a humanitarian and I know how to treat others with respect and kindness regardless.
And there is no “theoretical views” on humanity, it exists, these people exist. There’s nothing theoretical about it. You either know how to be kind and respectful to others, or you don’t. Simple.
Me like a lot of lesbians & gays have been attacked by TQ on social networks and in real life, (See the Stonewall veteran Fred Sargeant) harassed for only being attracted to the SAME SEX.
Don’t believe me? You haven’t been paying attention enough or maybe you know about it but deny it
Ps. I noticed that you and ZzBomb replied to me at the same time… so you use fake accounts eh?
that is such childish whiny crap. Im a cis male who has been 100%n gay my entire life and I have FELT ZERO pressure by trans people or gays or straight people to change and so I know you are lying and just being a troll or you have the lowest self esteem in the world. grow up. Not all people like the same stuff but it down make one more acceptable than another. TROLLS need to kn wo that REAL gay men arent threaten by women or trans or lesbians only BY STRAIGHT people
“The 60-year-old victim was punched in the face, knocked to the ground and kicked after one of the suspects tried to grab her camera as she was filming at a gender recognition talk, the Metropolitan police said.
Officers are trying to trace a man and two others, who are believed to be transgender, over the attack at around 9.30pm on Wednesday 13 September at Speakers’ Corner in Hyde Park.
Police believe the suspects were transgender. ”
From the LEFT WING Guardian newspaper. It happens. Reality! Go touch grass.
Heads up to the unaware: @dbmcvey is Queerty’s local T-chaser troll (and several others here as well), of course they don’t believe homophobia exists in the trans community because they are a part of it!! Deny and lie is their motto for a reason.
Please, please, please stop with the name-calling. It is not helpful.
Let posters have a conversation/debate without being unnecessarily divisive. These are conversations our community needs to have and if you have nothing to offer than name-calling, then maybe this is a topic you should skip.
If you disagree, fine. Jump in and make a point, an argument that furthers the conversation. Thank you.
Baron, when you stop with the transphobia I’ll stop with the name calling. Your tranphobia isn’t helpful either and you’re not having a “conversation.” You’re defaming a population.
@dbmcvey: be advised however, that name calling is explicitly against the rules of this forum, whereas stating one’s opinion, even when it differs from your own (which you’re trying to dismiss as ‘transphobia’) is encouraged. Thanks.
You should follow your own advice based on your “flaming gays” comment. Also, the people who are transphobes on this site are truthfully transphobes so, it’s just telling the truth.
Baron dear dear Baron here you are again acting like the voice of reason when you are the most hate filled b\nasty piece of work troll that comes here. yes you are jus the kindness , most reasonable of us all. go F off as we all know who and what you really are . drop the ( oh you nasty gay men are so cruel and dont really believe in freedom of speech and your supposed to be so nice bullshit) we again. know who you are and no we are not perfect but you are NOT one of us and you never will be so drop the act troll intel pos. thank dear Baron.
Lump,
I don’t care if I’m in the majority or not. There are so many lies in the comments on this site about trans people and you’re one of the main perpetrators.
hilarious that lumpy pillows says wee are outnumbered when most time it is just his three or four screen names sticking up for each other. you dumbass owe know. your screen names and we are not outnumbered. you are. real gays support all sexual outlaws and dont suck up to e homophobes or transphobes or misognists. NO trans has ever forced anyone to sleep with them. and that is a stupid lie unworthy of your stupid trolling
Omg… enough with pushing us to get on board with supporting this trans nonsense.
Last night saw in comments on an insta post, a post by a cute guy doing the “I like sexing men because no matter how much I try I can’t get them pregnant” vids, trans people had to go in say garbage like trans guys can get pregnant, trans guys Are men, be more inclusive, edit yourself to start saying cis men, etc. I just can’t with that stupidity that they NEED to be included in Everything even when it’s not about Them at all.
NO we will not drop the t already and true gay men never drop any of us to satisfy people like you who cant see anything but your own selfish crap. People on social media post their feelings and if you dont agree that’s fine but to dismiss them out of hand is total cowardly bullish*t. grow up or stay the troll you are. The far right has been caught in two separate meetings. by different groups stating their strategy is to separate trans first then move on to the other letters because in their sick opinion it will be easier to destroy us in smaller groups. NO we are all sexual outlaws and it isn’t just how you want it all
oh you saw some comments you didnt agree with? poor baby. grow the hell up. it isn’t a valid reason to deny an entire group their opinion because you dont agree. straights have don that to us forever
Unfortunately, for that person they are only a man between their ears. Every fiber of their physical body, every atom is female including the point they will need a prostate exam at age 50.
This is a fact, it is not debatable. It is a biological fact. It is also a fact that individual should be treated with respect and dignity.
Baron,
Do you really think your comment about “between their ears” wasn’t name calling? There was nothing “conversational” or “helpful” about your comment.
He is not a man. He is a trans man. Repeating this like that a trans man is a man is never going to make it true. It only damages any other pro-trans point you make.
@dbmmcvey: Joking aside, I believe trans men are men. But they’re female. And trans women are male. Which is still sharply heretical to the trans doctrine, so my allyship is forfeit in the eyes of militant trans and trans-allies.
@fab0497: “Man: an adult male human” -You’d be right 199 times out of 200… but it’s not quite true.
Please consider the fact that what it is to be a “man” or “woman” varies among cultures and eras. There have been myriad variations of traits and responsibilities associated to those labels/roles. What is acceptable among “men” in one culture is often absolutely wrong to others. This demonstrates that they are constructs.
S.anderson, Your argument falls flat because you don’t know what you’re saying. There are/have been some (few) matriarchal societies but that was largely limited to inheritance or political leadership. This did not mean that women went to war, or hunted or did other tasks that men normally did. There have been many queens/female leaders throughout history too, but that didn’t mean “gender roles” were switched. The argument about the “three spirit” or “RaeRae” people also doesn’t necessarily mean that most of those men pretending to be women, were actually thought of as women.
“There have been myriad variations of traits and responsibilities associated to those labels/roles. What is acceptable among “men” in one culture is often absolutely wrong to others.”
You are talking about sociology, while most of us are talking biology.
@ShaverC: You’re literally validating my point that the roles of men and women have varied over time and space. They’re negotiable. They’re constructs. Thank you.
Is literally the scientific definition of an adult male human, are you saying science is wrong?
In all eras a man/woman disguised as a woman/man was still considered a man/woman (travestite, drag queen, drag king) The same goes for a man/woman who did feminine/masculine work and was still considered a man/woman.
Society will never see a biological woman as a man and a woman as a man. it’s simply a useless (and counterproductive) battle
@fab0497: Again, there’s no such thing as a “biological woman”. Nor is there a “biological ninja” or “biological English teacher”. These are all learned things and they are different between cultures and eras. They’re negotiable constructs. It is “male” and “female” which are biological.
It’s an important distinction to those who are interested in keeping militant trans and their allies from confusing things for strategic advantage.
Again: By scientific definition a man/woman is an adult male/female human. These are the facts, your attempt to find every possible excuse to deny them is almost comical.
@@fab0497 Around half of one percent of the population is trans, so around 1 in 200 males are women/girls and 1 in 200 females are men/boys. If the definition is not right 100% of the time, then it’s wrong. And knowing why is a much richer experience than clinging to a black-and-white falsehood. Good day.
Since it’s gotten to the point where even daring to raise an eyebrow, let alone confess that you’re simply not 100% on-board with the Trans Doctrine makes you The Great Enemy, an outright transphobe… well, it does far more to invalidate trans people than it does independent thinkers.
@Lumpypillows. Who gets to decide it’s a lie? What about the idea that gay men are not really gay just showing of to be different. One person’s lie may be another person’s truth. If your talking of Biological truths then men are biologically designed to fertilise women through the act of sex! That doesn’t make same sex attraction a lie!
The reference to Nazis tactics is extreme and offensive!
As ZzBomb says, not wanting to sleep with someone, and not being transphobic, are completely different.
Not once have I heard or read of a trans person calling someone transphobic because the person didn’t want to sleep with them. Never. That would be nonsensical because gay people don’t want to sleep with every other gay person; and yet we would never claim homophobia due to that.
It’s the denial of them as men that makes it transphobic. For those who claim “they are biological women on testosterone”, I disagree. I do believe there is a difference between sex (male/female) and gender (man/woman). The former is biological (based on chromosomes; not body parts) and the latter is a societal construct. This can be evidenced by the fact that society has always dictated what makes someone a man or woman (note; not male or female). A male who is more into theatre than sports, isn’t buff, is intellectual, has for decades if not centuries been considered “less of a man” than the alpha types. A female who doesn’t wear dresses, who enjoys sports over dolls (a “tom boy”), has for decades if not centuries been considered “less of a woman” (it’s actually there in the name “tom boy”). So for ages, society has given meaning to man/woman – hence gender being subjective and flexible. Therefore an individual born female CAN identify as a man and it is accurate.
Additionally, it is the denial of them being able to use facilities relating to the gender with which they identify that makes it transphobic.
Finally, it’s the denial of them deserving to have rights and legal protection that makes it transphobic. Remember once upon a time it was considered a mental disorder to identify as gay? A mental disorder! Gays today would never accept such outdated views. Well, those views remain for our trans brothers and sisters. Being trans is still considered (effectively) a mental disorder that requires psychological evaluation and “approval” in order for the individual to live as their gender. Can you imagine if gays had to get “approval” before they were allowed to be called gay and sleep with the same gender?
So no, not wanting to sleep with a trans person doesn’t make one transphobic and that’s not what the community is complaining about. What they’re asking for is acknowledgment of their gender, equality in legal protection, and the ability to use and attend facilities that align with their gender. It’s not exactly difficult to support those wishes.
@Louis: I pretty much agree. However, just like when the flaming gays moved to outlaw terms like “straight acting only” on hookup sites, trans people are vehement that nobody should dare publicly state that they’re not into trans people as sex partners. As though people will give them a try out of guilt. And when someone says “I’m not sexually attracted to trans people”, the trans people (scroll up on this page, they did it here) sniff “WELL, I don’t care what plumbing people have in order to be my friends”. But we’re not talking about friendship, or any other form of affirmation of one’s humanity. We’re talking about not being 100% on-board with the trans person literally being the sex they wanted to be. It’s strategic smoke-blowing.
I agree Louis, conservatives are making claims about things trans people are supposedly doing, which I’ve never heard of IRL. It seems like fantasies to me.
There should be “straight acting only” on hookup sites because if they’re looking to have sex with other men they’re not “acting straight.” But really, tell me what site you can’t use “masc” on? Also, why do you have to “publicly state” you’re not into trans people? Just don’t engage with them sexually. I’m telling you, trans people aren’t out there forcing people to have sex with them. You’re just making that up.
@dbmcvey: BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW, stating that you are “masc” on a hookup site, and leaving it to that, will result in a lot of “non-masc” offering their unwanted goodies. One is just as entitled to saying “I am masc” as they are to say “and I am seeking masc”. Why would anyone insist that people not say what they are looking for?
Society (and science) has always considered a man to be an adult male human with a penis and a woman to be an adult female human with a vagina. Again: It’s not transphobic not to consider them men, it’s the truth. FTM’s are female. Period
“Remember once upon a time it was considered a mental disorder to identify as gay?”
That’s because ignorance and religion motives. Gender dysphoria is truly a mental disorder that causes inconsistencies between mind and body, these inconsistencies can lead to depression. Don’t use this excuse, it doesn’t work
thank you for a reasoned response to this anti trans hysteria. The right. for decades said we gay men weren’t men. It is BS when it is about us and it is BS about any other group. Yes we all would have our dns show us to be men but many straight people dont care what the DNA says. Stop, take. breathe and tell me how many of you have ever actually known a single trans person and spoken to them? You are speaking out of ignorance. And who cares if they are biologically male or female if you are not involved. Most straight people dont care what we are it is what we do that angers them and Im not changing one thin about who I am or what I do to satisfy any otters group and I bet all of you are nt willing to do that either. accept them it doesnt take a damned thing away from you and it pissses off the bigots. that alone would make us all stick together. There is not one straight person alive no matter how understanding know what it is to be gay and if you are not trans you do not know enough about them to be so hate filled. stop being trolls to make yourself feel better
Louis should seek out the Trans Karen account on TikTok. Just this month, Trans Karen whined in a restaurant about cis men not wanting to screw trans women. That’s another point. Transgender has reached a nadir of being performance art on social media, which is why a decent chunk of society refuses to take it seriously. It is what it is.
Another area that Louis lacks nuance..And I will scream it from the rooftops and die on this hill: Kids have sexual trauma and adopt Trans identification. And doctors misdiagnose. We see it from the 15 active detransitoner lawsuits (and climbing!)
Now, if yall good intentioned progressives wished we could just exercise blank cheques for surgery willy-nilly, you would get in there and clearly delineate the sexual trauma parameters. As most Americans have seen time and time again, you punt the football down the field. You’re not serious about sussing these real world implications out, hence the problems which are currently biting you in the ass. Figure it out.
@@dbmcvey: You’re not going to get away with that false narrative. Everyone knows fems on hookup sites are forever gnashing their teeth about Mascs explicitly eliminating them in their bios; “no fems”. Fems are also efficiently turning away any allies by mobbing anyone who doesn’t explicitly eliminate them in their bios.
@decrans:
“Louis should seek out the Trans Karen account on TikTok.”
With a bit of trepidation, I looked for a TikTok account named Trans Karen and can’t find one. There are some sorta-kinda similar names but what’s the one you mean? The name sounds satirical, though. Based just on the name I wouldn’t assume she/he was totally serious.
Trans Karen is the unofficial Internet moniker. This person makes videos about being misgendered in restaurants while berating low-paid and usually people of color wait staff. If a cis white man did this shtick, heaven forbid. This person monetizes this behavior, meanwhile. You can Google search “trans Karen restaurant” and it’s the first result from a San Francisco news station. As I said, Trans Karen’s last video involved claiming that straight men must screw trans women. Otherwise, it’s transphobic not to engage with a floppy Spiro dong, you know.
@fab0497, Heterosexual FTMs fetishize gay men, so for them, it’s not a mental disorder; it’s paraphilia, narcissism, and homophobia. Nobody should have to tolerate predators, regardless of what gender they identify with. I’m appalled at predatory apologists and denialists like @Louis. Just because you haven’t heard about it doesn’t mean it’s not happening. There are endless articles and social media posts (from trans people) written about it, and gay men and women are speaking out against it. You must really have your head buried deep in the sand to have never heard about this.
I don’t want to seem like policing anyone’s language, but there are no biological men or women! Those roles/labels are gender identities. We are biologically male or female.
Also, it would be dandy if we are careful to say “gender identities” instead of “gender” as that word is a synonym for “sex”, and that confusion is used strategically by militant trans and their allies to muddy up the differences.
@ZzBomb: I’m actually glad you chimed in here. This bears pointing out.
Intrasex, hermaphrodites and other ambiguous are also only male/female. You’ll find that they are either male, female or a mixture of the two. There is no third, fourth, fifth sex. So no need to but-but-but this.
Gender is not a social construct. Gender roles are social constructs. Gender is male, female or birth defect. There are biological men and women. You contradicted yourself multiple times.
There is a social movement to deny reality – it is not science or reality based. Everyone does not get their own gender.
@LumpyPillows AS YOU KNOW, the word “gender” has lately been appropriated to replace, and subsume, the term “gender identity”. When people say ‘gender’ now, they are either referring to one’s constructed identity, or they are strategically using it to confuse biological sex for one’s identity. To the point that some confused folks claim that it’s a myth (and a maneuver on the part of transphobes) to claim that ‘gender’ and ‘sex have ever been used as synonyms.
Intersex and hermaphodites are formed of either male components, female components, or a mixture of both. It’s also reflected in their genes. There is no third sex which possesses a ‘squigelyspooge” or “plumbus” instead of penis, vagina, testicles or ovaries.
Malformed organs don’t count as new organs any more than hydrocephalus or hypospadias.
I think it is possible to show respect to the trans community but not necessarily agree on every aspect where there is divergence in thinking. Its fine to support a Gay trans man right to identify as a gay man, and they can sleep with however consents to do so. Its equally ok to not want to sleep with a trans gay man, as a gay man, with out that being Transphobic.
Lets stop pointing fingers at each other on who is the most phobic and recognise its good for both ou our detractors if we are infighting. Trans rights are under attack more than I can remember in the last 30 years. Its not a giant leap to know the gay community is next!
When rights are given it implies they can also be taken away just as quick!
@southerscot: I agree with you, but the trans community refuses to return that respect in kind. You’re simply the Great Enemy to them if you don’t agree with them fully, and they seem to be ever on their guard for noncompliance. It sucks being their allies.
Saying you are a gay man when you are a gay trans man is a meaningful lie. It represents yourself as something very different from what you are and will not be cool with the gay man you trick into becoming intimate. It’s like you only live in your head and never go out into the real world.
@s.anderson. I have to say that’s not my experience. I have found that most trans individuals have recognised that there is a difference between sexuality and gender identity. That then does seem to blur a bit when someone identifies as trans and gay. Regardless it doesn’t real matter that much as we are all for having the right to be who we are and maintain that, in turn, that has no impact on the rights of anyone else. So nothing really to disrespect!
@lumpypillows. Who are al these gay men that are being tricked into sleeping with trans men. Its just not happening. If you identify as a man it doesn’t then apply that you have to be a straight man! It all comes down to being adults that have the ability to consent to who they sleep with. There are gong to be gay cis men that are ok with sleeping with gay trans men. In recent episodes of international episodes of Drag Race, there have been Trans gay men with gay male partners. There are no boxes that we all have to fit in!
@fab0497. No one is ever going to erase gay men, women or tans people. That idea is ridiculous! We have always existed and always will, Stop feeling so threatened and stop putting people in boxes. Who are you to decide if a gay man partners with a gay trans man , is bisexual. Being labelled has always been an issue for all. Focus on maintaining the ability to fight against the real issue which again always has and always will be the right to be who you are!
If they’re sleep with biological women, they’re NOT gay. Yes, you are erase us , real gay men DO NOT sleep with biological women. I know reality is difficult for you to accept, but it’s how it is. TQ activists fail to erase homosexuality as an same-sex attraction
southernscot, “Who are you to decide if a gay man partners with a gay trans man , is bisexual.” Do you not realize that someone who’s attracted to both male & female is bisexual? Are you surprised by that revelation?
@fab0497. I am describing reality. You are the one denying others their view on reality. I am a real gay man and have different view to you. That doesn’t make my understanding any less real than yours. As I said there are gay cis men in relationships gay trans men, it is a reality You can chose to call it otherwise and say they are Bi but I believe that they are still gay men!
In no way are gay men being erased, that is reality!
@southernscot: I agree with Shaver; One can’t “deny” another their own belief system unless they’re supplying information which clearly invalidates that belief system. And that’s a good thing; dragging someone’s head out of their ass. It can be a point of conflict if one person is hoping to recruit others into their belief system but that dang meddler with his ‘points’ and ‘facts’ is not helping, heh.
@Fab0497. And there we go “sure Jan sure’ I guess by that you are questioning my sexuality? How could I be gay if I disagree with you. It is a rather pathetic approach to deny those that disagree with you, their identity.
Again face the real foe, it’s certainly not the trans community or any other part of the LGBTQI+ community.
Because I have met many bisexuals (who pretended to be gay) with your mentality. Actual gays (like 99% of population) know that if you put it in a vagina, you’re not gay.
A “trans gay man” is just a heterosexual woman with a fetish. Why should we as gay men respect homophobia from creepy straight women who want to be us? You must be out of your mind to think we should accept this.
“Trans rights are under attack more than I can remember in the last 30 years. Its not a giant leap to know the gay community is next!”
This statement is pure manipulation and gaslighting. For the past thirty years, the trans community has been pulling apart gay rights and identity. You have been targeting homosexual people and their rights from the beginning, so your claim that we are “next” is a deceptive threat used to coerce gay men and women into submitting to trans homophobia. This tactic isn’t working anymore. More LGB people are speaking out against it than ever before.
@Monty Cliff. There is no gas lighting here, just observations on the changes we are seeing in the way society is now dealing with LGBTQI+. Are you denying the changes happening in US states like Florida, where books are being banned as they refer to Homosexuality? Did the US supreme court not just uphold a case where a graphic designer wants to refuse service to gay people based on her religious beliefs.
This is a change in direction to what had been seen as positive progress. Who would have thought that Roe vs Wade could have been overturned. The same could happen to Obergefell vs Hodges, if the right get there way. The Respect for Marriage Act doesn’t prevent states from refusing to issue marriage licences to same sex couples if the ruling on O vs H is overturned.
These are real and current issues not fear mongering.
The rise of the right is a problem across many western societies, with politicians attacking the rights already given to the LGBTQI+ community. It is totally in their favour if the can divide our community!
Also I am not Trans, I am a gay man, please respect my identity.
Conservative gaslighting is never really all that surprising. They say we should be civil but they say things that are truly terrible (though often in a pleasant tone of voice). They say they are having a “conversation” but really they’re just continuing hate speech, but claiming it’s just “ideas” when they’re just putting out conservative talking points. They claim the “other side” is hateful in an effort to silence people they disagree with.
Also, I truly doubt that trans men are out there shaming gay men who don’t want to have sex with them in great numbers. This is a fantasy, “I’m so hot everyone wants me.”
you’re never civil either. Also, I don’t claim to be civil, as opposed to the people who come on here saying truly terrible things and claiming they’re just “having a conversation.”
@dbmcvey: You’re entitled to your own doubts, but you’re not doing any good by narrating your opponent’s gosh-darn civilized behavior and doggone tricksy willingness to sit down and debate as sure-fire signs of hate. Sheesh.
Gosh, but all you transphobes sure do swarm on these Queerty articles in a jiff. It’s almost like y’all are just buzzing around waiting for an opportunity to get validation from each other. Guess you’re not really getting any in the real world. Getting validation, that is.
@La Baronne : That’s what we’ll see in 2025. You’ll be sorry you supported a facist. It’ll be too late to complain. You’ll regret it, I’m sure of it. Good Luck White gay men.
Spamming or am I simply telling the truth? Everyone sees them inventing 100 genders and pronouns every day, forcing women to accept biological men into their space, pushing hormones on minors, and attacking gays and lesbians etc. TQ are doing enormous damage to the entire community, but you all are too busy accusing anyone of being transphobic to see it
Love seeing that I’m not alone in being fed up with all the trans nonsense being slammed onto our heads. There’s no avoiding it when they beat you to death with it day in and day out online.
@RickHeathen: Why don’t people realize that something sus is up when one side says that “everyone is entitled to have their say” yet they insist the other side “mind their own business”?
I’m going to preface my remarks by identifying myself as a mid- to far left liberal who has never voted Republican in my life. I also have a gender-questioning kid of whom I’m very proud and supportive. I feel the need to do so because dbmcvey, cam, and blabflab have more than once accused me of being a right-wing troll and possessor or multiple screen names. I’m neither.
First point: the trans community is not a single united movement. There is a sizable schism between strident activists and more traditional (which is not synonymous with conservative) members of the community.
Second point: Neither perception nor attraction can be dictated. Some of the commenters may have stated it a bit crudely, but there is undoubtedly a “You must perceive me as I perceive myself AND you must see me as sexually attractive” sense of indignation among trans activists. “Transwomen are women” and “trans men are men” are not nondebatable assertions.
Third point: Inventing language and terminology in support of your cause with the intention of othering adherents to what is the long-established societal norm (i.e., labeling men/males and women/females who have never questioned their gender as “cis,” insisting that public introductions include preferred pronouns, replacing “mother,” “woman,” or “female” with “persons who menstruate or give birth,” etc.) is not only detrimental to your cause, but frankly ludicrous.
Fourth point: In response to the approach of labeling anyone who does not subscribe to each and every assertion made by the trans activist community a transphobe (and attempting to achieve their submission through intimidation and/or loss of employment/accreditation/income) there are now proposed legislative bans in states all around the country that would make illegal the display of pride flags, equality flags, diversity displays, BLM flags, etc. The strident, non-compromising approach of extreme trans activists is undermining years of progress not only for themselves, but for other marginalized communities as well.
Final point: One can support, respect, and defend trans people and still disagree with specific language, assertions, claims, beliefs, and opinions.
@Observant Not sure I follow your third point. We seem to be ok saying gay male and straight male to differentiate in language, so why not Cis man and Trans man for the same reason. Or are we oly defining those that ‘question’ their sexuality From that is then makes sense that a trans man may give birth and identify as a father.
Do we get into a situation that if we say there is no such thing as a trans man then there is no such thing as a gay man? Wouldn’t that be great! We are all just men or women regardless of who we sleep with and what genitals we have! Ah but no, that won’t work as it’s binary!
on your 4th point, why blame the transactivists and not the conservatives that have implemented these bans?????? I don’t think that transactivists are where the undermining of progress is coming from. There were already attacks on gay rights and women’s rights should we blame women and the gay community for those?
@southernscot: or do we get into a situation where we don’t question trans people employing the term “cis” while at the same time objecting to themselves being labelled “trans”? What’s good for the goose is good for the gender.
They accuse everyone of being a far right conservative over the slightest disagreement. It shows how simple minded and vacuous their arguments are. Like the Trump voters they disdain. Peas in a damn pod.
You are so right. I’m really not proud to be a gay men, especially when I read comments on Queerty. It is like we don’t remember how conservatives treat us…we are doing the same thing to others…However, I’m convinced that reality will catch up with us.
I agree with you 100% Its mind boggling to me when the marginalized marginalize others. And some of these men are so extra *nasty* about it, too. No compassion at all. Its disgusting.
This comment thread is further proof that we will never improve as a society until Boomers and the Silent Generation finally die…after bleeding social security dry and changing more laws to cling to their wealth and backward ideas.
@PQ You are delusional. Every generation feels the world has been ruined by the previous generations. You will find the same will happen to you when you reach old age. Get over it and focus on the real problems of today which are faced by all regardless of age! The topic here is about discrimination based on sexuality and gender identity. How should we deal with that?
I doubt the transphobes are all of that generation. I’ve noticed plenty of younger people expressing their hatred as well. They’re usually white, male, and upper middle class. They’re also tend to be more conservative. They have theirs so screw everyone else.
PQ is kind of right, in a sad little way. The struggle may never end until those with first-hand experience and remember history are gone and only the ignorant remain.
PQ, your comment shows just how stupid you are. How much have you contributed to Social Security? How much wealth have you generated for yourself that needs protecting from many of today’s youth who are so backwards they aren’t “comfortable” going out in public and earning a living, yet demand that the gov’t provides for them. We Boomers worked and survived during the start of the AIDS epidemic. We did this with zero support from the gov’t. NO life saving drugs, NO free medical care, NO support from outside our community. I’m looking down the barrel of retirement and closing my self built business. A business that has allowed me to work hard and get paid well enough I’ve maxxed out S.S. taxes for the last 23 of 47 years of hard ass work. What will I get for this? A hell of a lot less from Social Security than my investments have made over the years plus the obligation of paying income tax on both my investment withdrawals AND a large part of my social security check. The saddest part is that NOBODY is interested in taking over my business. So be careful what you wish for because when all of us Boomers and Silent Gens are gone, you candy asses will be wondering where’s all the stuff at, what do you mean the warehouse is empty, why isn’t someone building a new road for me, why isn’t someone developing a new drug that will halt that new disease that is spreading among the gay community. I’ll venture a guess that the gov’t is largely supporting you with rent, medical, and food subsidies. I’ll add that I’m betting your pissed off because Biden can’t pay off enough of your stupid student loan. You punk kids today think it is your “right” to receive FREE housing, food, and life saving drugs that allow you to continue your unsafe sexual behavior that is also your “right”. Our constitution guarantees the right to the PERSUIT of happiness. It does not guarantee any of us find happiness yet your entitled ass has twisted the truth into a lie that you shouldn’t have to work, yet you should be given everything that makes you Happy. For your information, we Boomers are wishing you entitled young punks would go ahead and overdose and get off the Social Security Disability wagon. That’s where the real issue with S.S. is today. S.S. Disability is the new retirement plan for young people who don’t want to work and have learned the gov’t will provide. Social Security Retirement has been lumped in as an “entitlement program” which couldn’t be any farther from the truth. Social Security Disability is an “entitlement program”, but sadly you kids don’t even know there is a difference.
Openminded, the most hilarious part of your response is that you think your generation is still doing things like building new roads and businesses. Gen X here – not wealthy but not poor. Live a debt free, pretty average middle class life with a solid retirement savings and just enough left over to be happy from day to day. Paid my way through school by earning scholarships and working at night. Work 40 hours a week and volunteer on the weekend. Your rant further proves my point that your generation is nothing but selfish bigots who live in stereotypes and outdated, backward ideas. I’m guessing no one wants your business because it is YOUR business. And for your generation to lecture young people about unsafe sex practices is the height of too muchery. Or did you forget about that AIDS crisis you mentioned earlier. Seems like if you boys wore condoms and kept it in your pants, I wouldn’t have spent my youth watching all my gay elders die. And I’m complaining about SS because I have to pay into it so that you can collect it. Seems pretty reasonable for me to resent paying into your retirement.
S.anderson, I’ve lived and remember the same history you do. The difference is that because of the adversity we have faced as gay people, I am willing to apply compassion and empathy to our trans brothers and sisters. Because I lived that history I know all too well how difficult their lives are and how desperately they need our support. You lived the past and because of that feel entitled to something. I lived the past and because of that want to make life easier and better for others.
Inbama, the only one responsible for the quality of my life is me. And I like my life very much. Am I the world’s biggest success? Certainly not. Am I a failure? Not that either. I live a pretty average, pleasant life that I would put solidly in the middle. Will life be better for all of us, myself included, once the younger generations start undoing the failures of yours? 100%. Like many of gen x, I find myself caught in the middle between their idealism and your selfishness.
What does this “support” look like? More government entitlements for gender reconstruction surgery, one that is mostly experimental with wildly varied success rates? Millennial here. This idea is going over like a lead balloon.
@PQ: “Because I’ve lived the past?” Well shame on me for having lived in the past and not just in this Brave New World where trans lie about what the past was like and who really did what. Shame on me for remembering the past as it really happened and not having yet been worn down by modern shrieking propagandists enough to stop speaking up. Let me tell you now about gravity and electricity so you can deny those too.
Still on the mark, Uncapping the SS limit will help, but not as much as many would have you believe. IF you uncap the contribution limits you will be forced to uncap the retirement payment limit which will greatly nullify the action. Not saying it won’t help some, as at least a few of the high income earners will die young, but the pundits who are lobbying for this are presenting a plan where the high income earners will pay nearly 15% of their total income into SS but only receive the current max pay out of today. I’m getting way off topic here, but my “fix” for the system is to have business pay ALL the income tax/retirement tax and individuals only pay property tax, sales tax, etc. on what they own or buy. Yes, the percentage will be high for businesses but there will be a large trade-off of other taxes this way. The IRS could shrink to nearly nothing yet still be able to audit every “tax payer” since it would be only businesses and not the millions of individuals and illegal immigrants that are able to play the odds of not being audited/caught underpaying. Although, I’m a conservative businessman, but I realize this country was built for the people, not the businesses, so it only makes sense to put the onus on businesses to pay the lion’s share of the taxes. All this said, it is very ignorant and shallow minded for people to wish a generation to die so that they can be better off. We old farts have paid in way more SS taxes than we will ever receive in return. The facts show that SS is going underwater due to 1. The system started paying retirement benefits from day one to people who hadn’t had the chance to contribute. (Paid with “borrowed” money), 2. Gov’t borrowed from the once huge fund balance for non-retirement expenses while only basically reimbursing the fund the principal with little interest. 3. Greatly expanded the “Disability” eligibility with very little monitoring of actual need until it was too late. 4. Yes, the boomers grew to be a huge lot of people, but they still paid in at the same rates as the smaller lot before them, and boomers had exponentially more households where both spouses worked and both spouses paid in while only 1- spouse gets full benefits and the other spouse only receives 1/2 benefits. If you really look at the numbers, the boomers are getting the shaft compared to previous SS recipients as far as return on investment goes except for those who are living well beyond the average life span. 5. The increased life span was something nobody could factor which is an issue for the system. However, the younger generations are benefiting from longer life expectancy also so it is hardly fair to have them wish for boomers to die.
PQ, I KNOW my generation is still building roads and other businesses. YOUR generation believes everyone can get rich thru online transactions and buying GameStop stock, or better yet, BitCoin. YOUR generation isn’t out there starting a new factory or housing project. YOUR generation is busy whining because the IRS is still attempting to force payment handling businesses and others to report ANY transfer of money in excess of $600 in an attempt to fairly tax all these basement start ups running a business under the radar and not paying their fair share of the tax burden. Too many of you young people want to dodge the responsibility of business license, insurance, regulatory agencies, commercial tags on that mini van you write off on your taxes because you occasionally make a run in it to the UPS store to ship some second hand crap you sold online in your unlicensed “business”. So YES, I know for a fact that many people my age are still out there building for the future.
I can promise you that within 20-30 years there will be studies and news reports on what happened to the work force? “Why can’t we get anything built?” “Maybe our mothers and fathers were actually earning a living and carrying their weight after all?” “Why didn’t they warn us about this?” “Nobody told me slinging burgers for 20 hrs a week at Mc’D’s wasn’t really contributing to the betterment of society. ”
I’ll finish with acknowledging that today’s youth ain’t got a snowballs chance in hell right now. I didn’t have much of a chance when I graduated late 70’s when you couldn’t buy a job but the industrious could get out on their own and start a legit business easier then than can be done now. Still, your only hope is to get out there and dig in. That’s the only way to really secure your own future and stop big business from taking over everyone’s lives by controlling how much you are paid, when you will work, and how much you will pay for life’s necessities. The sooner everyone stops expecting the gov’t or their employer to provide them an enjoyable life by simply showing up for 40 hrs a week, the better off you will be.
Funny how insufferable PC Queers are the ones to SCREEN #METOO, #TIMESUP, #CONCENT!!! And yet, we gay men are FORCED to have sex with ttansmen because if not… TRANSPHOBIA! It’s societal blackmail. When did gay men owe people sex? What? Should we start forcing straight men to have sex with us to prove their not homophobic? Hypocrisy much? Guess consent doesn’t count where gay men’s bodies are concerned.
Where are all these Trans men forcing gay men to have sex with them? It just isn’t true. A trans gay man may lament that he is not getting to sleep with other gay men, so what? Nobody is forcing anyone to sleep with them for the optics.
@Monty Cliff. Where in the article is there any reference to gay men being forced to have sex with Trans men? You seem to be changing the narrative of the article.
Your description of Trans Gay men just being fetishists is reminiscent of the arguments people have used against gay men in the past!
You are quite offensive. You know nothing much about me but feel comfortable to say I am predator apologist and therefore disgusting. Explain how you have come to that conclusion?
People can hold different views and still be reasonable human beings.
sound off all they like, the VAST majority by a country mile of gay men & women don’t identify with trans people. Not sure in what universe someone that identifies as female when born male vice versa are not oppressed due to their sexuality. A guy that wants to ID as a woman and have sex with women is still a straight guy. I’d be fully supportive of the gay & lesbian community just being called that, do away with this alphabet and at a pinch include bi people. It’s the gay & lesbian community, not all the addons that seem to be ever increasing.
I don’t need to identify with trans people to support their rights, and I do support their rights. Sadly, one must be 100% in compliance with their doctrine, or else one’s allyship is invalid in their eyes.
@La Barone : First of all, you’re not the only conservative “voice” here. So stop playing games. Secondly, you keep coming on this site to inundate us with your views. Numerous people here have already shown you on several occasions that your idol (whose praises you never stop praising) hates women, gays and immigrants (he’s very proud of this and spends his time saying it on his social media, at meetings between Republicans and all over the media…do a little research and you’ll see for yourself). So no matter how hard I try to argue with you, even if I rub your nose in it, you’ll continue to deny that it’s bullshit. You spend so much time commenting on articles that it’s hard to believe you have a life outside Queerty.
Perhaps English isn’t your first language, but when I say “one of the only” it doesn’t mean only. That would be inaccurate and it is not what I said. So who “is playing games”?
I believe you are trying to say that Trump is my idol. He is not; I don’t have any idols. So he hates gays? Golly, I have never heard that one. Give me a quote, any quote. We just did this a few days ago when the eternal perpetual victim, dbmcvey, made all kinds of accusations and couldn’t back any of them up. Just like you.
“Make your own analysis. Be independent for once and stop asking others how to think.”
So again, you made an accusation about me not thinking for myself. Who thinks for me? Who does my “analysis”? Considering I am one of the rare conservative voices on here please let me know whom I am asking to think for me?
Also waiting on all those examples of fascism that you talked about.
Prediction: Stefano has made three accusations and he will not be able to back any of them up. Here in America, which you so eagerly disparage, it is considered proper discourse to able justify and rationalize your accusations.
Stefano is not American and generally not considered an English-oriented name.
Feel better, pumpkin? Maybe you would feel better “tattling” on someone else, mean girl. Please make sure to call them names (your specialty) as I know how it makes you feel better about yourself to denigrate and belittle others with your Rolodex of hate.
My take on this issue is that everyone younger than 50 y/o wants everything RIGHT NOW. It has taken the LGB community decades upon decades to get where they are today. The trans community, in societies eye, is a relatively new group, (Countdown to the screams), yet like all youth today, they want to be recognized and supported just like the LGB community… RIGHT NOW!!!. I’m not saying that they don’t deserve recognition and support. I’m saying that the general population sees them as “just another new group demanding rights”. The trans community, IMHO, has to learn patience and show, thru time, just who they are and why they deserve to be treated equally. Is this right?, I don’t know. I do know it’s how things work in this world. If I had the authority to require ALL MSM people to submit to bi-annual STD testing starting now, there would be a tremendous outcry and pushback on how I am infringing on your rights, even though it would likely be the best thing for our long term health. I won’t be surprised, however, that this won’t come to pass in the next couple of decades. (For those of you on PreP, do you really think the recurring STD testing requirements are actually medically necessary to safely continue taking the meds? I think it’s a great idea, but I also believe it is just another gov’t play on the ongoing “we’ll provide you with xyz IF you will do abc.”)
I will add, it’s so hypocritical when many comments here declare that we should be nicer to each other and tolerate others who are different, yet let me make a single conservative comment, and I’m suddenly a satanic troll. Make up your minds people. Either we are going to try to be civil or most of you are going to be “Moronic, entitled liberals wanting everything given to you.” (Just Kidding guys 🙂 )
Nope. They’ve been trained by a materialistic culture to want gender transitions now! It doesn’t work that way. It’s a lifelong process, not an episode of RuPaul’s Drag Race. You can see the twentysomething coming up against this reality on various Reddit threads and performative TikTok videos.
PQ, Didn’t say that at all. As much as I hate to admit it, decrans pretty well sums it up. Simply because youth “wants” something doesn’t mean they should have it NOW. I know that’s hard for you to comprehend living in a world where you can wake up at 2 AM wanting a hamburger and by simply making a few taps on your phone, someone will be at your door within 30 minutes with a burger. That instant gratification works because someone is making money off of your impatience. Changes like greater trans acceptance take time because it’s not a financial gain for someone else. It’s a matter of educating the general population why your cause is worthy of their support. Trust me, IF you had enough money to make this a financial exchange just like that 2AM burger delivery, you could get all the trans acceptance you want by the end of the week. You simply can’t demand society to see things your way overnight. It has nothing to do with how much I may or may not have suffered in the past. Black people didn’t get to ride in the front of the bus overnight. Trans people are being foolish if they think they can fast track societal shifts much quicker. MLK’s peaceful but firm, factual, and sensible push for black rights got a whole lot more changed than any demands or riots. Of course, not too many trans activist were alive to see MLK’s movement.
“one in which some think LGB equality is an acceptable substitute for LGBT equality”
Yes, I wasn’t born LGBT. I was born gay, which doesn’t obligate me to buy into anything transgender activists say. I’ll be happy to speak out against actual persecution, but sorry — I’m not pushing for acceptance of stuff I think is nutty. Use your own voice and money to do that.
No. They’re not. Look at Dickvaney, Abcrabs and the usual merry band of Queerty idiots. In different circumstances, they would put raccoon carcasses on their heads and storm the Capitol. Facts.
Gay men understand perfectly well that straight women (aka trans “men”) who fetishize gay men and gay male culture can never be us or be a part of us. The fact that these women think we are oppressing them because we recognize they are women is a ludicrous form of homophobia. Thank God for groups like LGB Alliance. We are seeing more gay and lesbian people speaking out against this BS than ever before. The tide is turning.
The LGB Alliance renounced marriage equality because it also allows Trans people to marry. Can’t have Trans people enjoying equality, so no equality for Ls or Gs or Bs either. (Funny how bigotry is contagious.) After they got called out for their stupidity, they issued a pro-forma whoopsie, yet continued arguing for the dissolution of marriage equality, ‘cuz, you know, Trans.
The LGB Alliance has also allied themselves with groups that not only want to repeal marriage equality, they have allied themselves with groups that want to criminalize everything L G and B.
And Qs? Burn ‘em!
What else have you been thanking God for lately?
And by the by: The tide isn’t turning. It just seems like that to you because you’re spinning.
Trans are already dissolving gay and lesbian rights and identities, so cry me a river with your “whataboutism.” I’m very aware that the LGB Alliance isn’t a faultless organization and some of its leaders are questionable; however, it sets a precedent that LGB people can and will organize for themselves (just as we have done for decades) and that we can be free from the trans community and its bigotry.
Trans are not the end all be all of gay people. We owe you nothing.
When will queerty do an article on the brave fight of the trans people to get the medical community to provide Life-Saving Affirmation Surgeries(TM) for the rest of the 74+ genders? It’s baffling why they only provide two types! There should at least be Nonbinary Affirmation Surgery by now, right?
Yes.
People who call themselves non-binary can elect to have “Gender Nullification Surgery” – Nullo, or Eunuch procedures involve removing all external genitalia to create a smooth transition from the abdomen to the groin.
If they prefer, nonbinary persons can go the other way and have a phall or vaginoplasty done without removing the organs of their sex assigned at birth, so they can present as both intact male and female.
It’s wild that a gay site has gay men debating about whether gay men are sexually interested in people with vulvas. Some of you have really lost the plot.
So true. The straight community is defeating us without firing a single shot. I try to stay neutral on the trans issue as I’m not too well informed on the background. I do know that there seems to be a direct correlation between the rise in Trans activism and the rise in anti-gay laws. General society has definitely lumped all of the rainbow group under the same umbrella and turned against us all now that so many cross gender folks are demanding public exposure. Maybe someone needs to tell the trans community that this isn’t a socialist club and that they need to pull their own weight without pulling down the rest of the group.
Trans and their chasers have been infesting this site for quite some time now. It’s already happened on other gay sites where they pretend to be gay men and act like we all support their garbage views. It doesn’t help that Queerty has been pushing the narrative as well every time they release pictures of deboobed women and expect us to find it attractive.
There was never any conflict between transsexuals and gays and lesbians.
It was early this century, after Marriage Equality was won, that powerful moneyed heterosexual transvestites, who had never been part of the movement, hijacked it – along with the ACLU. Athletes, military men, influential economists, husbands and fathers – these heterosexual males are not effeminate like the homosexual m2fs. The few brain studies that control for sexual orientation show they do not have brain atypicality in the gender region as homosexual trans and just ordinary homosexuals do, but in the area of body dysmorphia. It was for these heterosexual males – often conservative gay-hating Republicans – that the “Woman with Penis” was invented so they could claim to be actual women without surgery. This is the source of all our current political problems. It led immediately to the persecution of lesbians (who mostly want nothing to do with their “ladydicks”) and now puts us in conflict with the vast majority of Americans who don’t want to see women’s sports destroyed and intact male-bodied rapists serving time in women’s prisons.
So maybe we need restrooms labeled as “People with Penis’ Only ” and “People with Vaginas Only”. We can also stop calling sports “Mens sports” and “Women’s sports” and start calling them “Penis Sports” and “Vagina Sports”. I’m betting the hetero population would be on board with this solution. Problem solved.
I don’t see why sports can’t be divided by weight class and experience levels regardless of the athlete’s sex or gender-identity. But then certain big-feeted dames start stamping their feet and this is why we can’t have nice things.
There are many in the gay community that don’t agree with transgenderism or transexualism for many reasons I won’t go into here. For the most part, they keep this to themselves to avoid being ostracized and shunned. That said this doesn’t make them transphobic or anti trans. Just because someone is gay, that doesn’t mean they have to agree or go along with everything the gay community does or advocates. One is either born a biological male or female and no amount of behavoir therapy, drugs, hormone replacement or surgery will change this as this is a medical fact. You might dress as the opposite sex and live as the opposite sex but down deep you’re biologically male or female, not the oposite, Many of us are tired of having this issue rammed down our throats and feel those of legal age who want to do this to themselves, ( go through expensive therapy, hormone replacement and ultimately surgical gender reassignment ) allow them to proceed but let them pay for this out of their own pockets, not foist the bill on the taxpayers, many of whom feel this is medically unnecessary and some consider this an abomination on religious grounds. Please no anti religious comments on this posting. What grown adults do with their own bodies that affects them only is their business and need to live with the consequences of their decisions, especially something like this that’s permanent and irreversible.
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DeltaOmega1982
OMG Spare Us! What about the homophobia from the trans community? Cis male this and cis male that? There’s good reason even the LGB community has had enough of this crap.
ShaverC
Agreed. There is no such thing as a “cis” male. It’s male. Do trans people really find it shocking that a man, who wants to have relationships with other men, do not want to have a relationship with a woman who’s trying to act like a man? She doesn’t have the right parts. They try to guilt people into having s@x with them and then attack you if you say no.
fab0497
@Shaver Based
ZzBomb
@Shaver
You must have a difficult time making friends in general then from the sound of it. B/c I don’t care what parts a person does or does not have to be my friend, so long as they treat others respectfully.
You have odd standards.
S.anderson
@Delta, @Shaver: Agreed. It’s getting to the point where we have “men, women and cismen and ciswomen” for some reason. The way “penis and uncircumcised penis” has been an irksome convention. Soon, it’ll be “Truemen” and “Truewomen” -vs- cismen and ciswomen.
I had hoped that transpeople and LGB could stand together against the bigots who see us as one and the same, but that hope is fading. Transpeople are not the same as LGB, they do not have the same beliefs and they do not have the same goals. Those goals involve “helping” LGB people, who in their opinion are confused about their gender, to “transcend” to their “true” trans, nbee, pan and other queer identies. Even if they have to drag cis people there kicking and screaming. Such blessings!
But in the real world, male and female are biological facts. Man, boy, woman, girl, etc., are negotiable identities. I used to think it was enlightened to accept that “some men have vaginas” as well as “some men are female”. Or that “some women have penises because they are male”. But no, that’s heretical to the trans doctrine. Penises and vaginas stand in defiance of their gender identities, so these must be cut away, and ‘cis’ people will smile, nod and keep their mouths shut if they know what’s best for them. Induce the public to say “gender” when they mean “sex” to muddy up the waters strategically.
Don’t overlook the fact that most transpeople consider themselves straight. Like LGB, they’ve been called homophobic slurs and hate it as much as, if not more than LGB people do because deep down inside they always “knew” they’re not THAT. Identifying as trans, they may NEVER have to come to terms with their sexuality the way LGB people do. Some of them hate LGB people as much as the homophobes, because LGB people are, ya know, DISLOYAL to the trans cause. It’s the LGB people who are delusional about their nature, right? Boys can’t be attracted to other boys! That’s not normal like it is for girls!
They hate LGB people who opened their arms to them because LGB people represent a temptation that will lure fresh, beautiful new transkids away from the light, and into their deprecated “sick and unnatural” cult of binary sex perversion. Their thanks came in the form of driving out all “transphobic” old dinosaurs from LGBTQIA++ organizations, and wearing them like a skin suit. Issuing the new truth through all media outlets about how through all history, it was really transgender people doing all the great things and not lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, heteroflexibles, transvestites, drag queens, and drunk frat boys.
I would be highly interested in seeing the list of “74 Genders” amended to include a description of what kind of surgery each would require for proper “affirmation”.
Ken A.
Thank you. I fully agree. Lets differentiate transactivists from gender dysphoric trans sexuals. The latter criticize the former more than LGB people do. Is it wrong for LGB people to look out for their own interests and try to keep the rights so many fought for? Trans don’t like LGBT, they want to change it to TLGB. If we lose our rights that were fought so hard for thats on the transgender community.
southernscot
@ s.anderson and @Ken A. This seems to be a two way street though. The LGB Alliance are out there saying that Trans men are just lesbian women that have been poorly supported in coming to understand their sexuality. I have not come across any trans homophobia. In my experience trans individuals are clear on the difference between sexuality and gender identity and are supportive of the general concept of each to there own and rights for all.
I worry that there is divide and conquer movement looking to change back the efforts made in moving forward. I have never seen anything where tans people are say the community should be TLGB, thats typical disinformation propaganda.
dwick
cis is not homophobic
S.anderson
@dwick: I don’t think anyone’s said “cis is homophobic” but perhaps you missed that plenty of people do object to being called ‘cis’. When they object to it, but someone persists on doing it, probably while sneering, then it’s an aggression. Like calling someone “trans” or “girrrrl” or “homo” or “Queer” when they’d really prefer not to be.
barryaksarben
enough you sound like the christian community whining about being mistreated and needing. religious liberty laws. This is BS. This is playing into the. far right agenda of separating us into smaller groups to then pick us off. This strategy was on not one but two different hidden camera. takes at different far right groups meetings. At Stonewall it was men women trans drag and hustlers and it wouldn’t have happened if we all hadn’t been in it together. I dont know how much. this truly enters into your life to bother you so much. Be honest how many trans people do you encounter tat often? be honest
S.anderson
@barryaksarben: I wouldn’t expect these comments to accurately reflect all walks of life, just those of a small group who are outspoken and who have taken up residence here on Queerty. For that matter, this is exactly the kind of party Queerty throws here for just this reason.
Mack
Sounds to me that one person is using different moniker to support what some idiot says. Sounds like a lot of hate to me. We’re all in the same boat, trans, gay, bi, lesbians-we all hated for who we are. But then you throw in a bunch of idiotic trolls who comes into the site and spread their hatred.
LumpyPillows
How about the misogyny from the trans brigade? Just make this nonsense stop. Scream all you want; you can’t make something true that isn’t just because you want it to be.
HiKo73
Agreed, as a cis-Bi-woman, the misogyny from a lot of trans-women saddens & sometimes truly frightens me.
S.anderson
The trans are mysogynist? I thought they loved ALL “people who menstruate”, heh.
mastik8
Lets ask JK Rowling, Germaine Greer and Buck Angel – all accused of being TERFS. If they had the courage of their convictions in their true and just cause dissent would be allowed and they never would have had a reason to invent TERF. Being trans is valid in and of itself and demanding erasure by inclusion in the pre-existing categories of man and woman is internalized transphobia. What’s wrong with being trans such that you would negate yourself by that erasing action.
monty clift
Buck Angel is a two-faced grifter. She talks from both sides of her mouth. A lot of the problems we are having today with young girls transitioning to become gay men are a direct result of her and her homophobic conversion pornography that she still promotes to this day. Predatory women rarely get called out in the trans community.
Mister P
OMG you transphobes. Didn’t you read the part about the golden rule and respect?
We need to support each other.
ZzBomb
Exactly, they forget that understanding is not a prerequisite for showing respect and human decency.
Unsurprisingly, the usual hateful suspects are already taking offense to being called out for being offensive.
ShaverC
The problem is the trans activists don’t just want to be acknowledged. Most gay men really don’t care if someone wants to transition, not my business, but the problem comes up when that F2M then demands gay men accept them as other gay men. You’re really not a gay man. And it gets worse when they appear to demand gay men sleep with them.
ZzBomb
@Shaver
“but the problem comes up when that F2M then demands gay men accept them as other gay men.”
I’ve literally never heard a singular transperson say anything remotely like that. Whether personally or in any media.
And to your second point. the ones who on grindr tried to pressure me into sex were troll accounts. Likely set up by people like yourself to generate this narrative so you can repeat it here, as if it were true, to continue to sew hate and dissention among the community. Furthermore, I doubt you get many propositions anyway.
You’re colors are showing.
fab0497
It’s hard to respect a movement that seeks to erase women and homosexuality
ShaverC
The trans person in the article was literally complaining that they’re not treated as a gay man.
Who’s trolling who?
ZzBomb
@fab0497
Citation needed b/c I never heard, or read, or seen reported a singular trans person saying “they want to erase women and homosexuality.”
ZzBomb
@Shaver
Re-read the first paragraph again, slowly. It didn’t say what you think it said.
ShaverC
ZzBomb, It’s in the third paragraph: “I find myself wondering if I can even be a part of this community.”
dbmcvey
Shaver, you of all people shouldn’t be surprised that some gay men are nasty transphobes. I mean really, you have no ability for self-reflection.
fab0497
Go on socials (especially on Twitter) and will see TQ activists insults women and gay if they dare to say that MTFs are biological men and that homosexuality is same-sex attraction. They hate women and homosexuality, this is the sad truth
ZzBomb
@fab
Oh yes Twitter, the absolute cess pool of all social media. How about trying to interact with REAL people and get back to me.
ZzBomb
@Shaver
What part of “community” are you not understanding here? LOL This isn’t a new concept.
ShaverC
ZzBomb, You don’t make sense.
ZzBomb
@Shaver,
No, it’s you who suffers from poor reading comprehension. The word “community” seems to perplex you.
fab0497
ZzBomb@
And not only on social media, but also in reality with the attack on J. K. Rowling
for having said a scientific banality. feminists attacked by TQ in Australia, lesbians kicked out of prides, the attack on Fred Sargeant etc. The modern TQ movement is insane. Denying it is useless.
barryaksarben
shave you are so full of it. your transphobia is always on display here. I dont judge all gays based on our most prominent activists. I did not agree with Larry Kramer all the time but I respected him and never would have thought to just disregard his opionion or claim he wasnt part of the community. There is way too much anti feminine in our society that anything that appears or wants to appear. more feminine is wrong and that is BULL. You can want your straight acting guys only but it doesnt mean we have to throw our trans brothers and sisters under the bus BECAUS to most straight haters we are all sick and wrong and they couldn’t care one tiny bit if you are attracted to butch only – to them you are as sick as any trans person. we must stick together so be a man and suck it up, you dont have to like them or sleep with them to understand that their struggle is our struggle
dbmcvey
Someone said mean things about you on social media? Join the club.
But physical attacks? I don’t believe you.
mastik8
ROFL. That from the group that took JK Rowling, and turned her into a TERF even after she said, “I stand with the trans community…” but had the temerity to say she wasn’t a person who menstruated but a woman.
barryaksarben
It is ridiculous. None of these old entitled white gay men have ever met any trans people and so they are basing their opinions and it is just their OPINION on social media. I know more than a few trans men and women and none have ever attacked me for misgendering but have been polite in their correcting me and my self esteem is big enough for me not to be offended for not knowing something. This anti trans crap and the anti feminine crap are the same. IF their sense of masculinity is that fragile that they are threatened by the incredibly few trans people out there to FN bad. The right is trying to separate us into smaller groups to then attack each one. and even that doesnt matter as much as they are sexual outlaws like all of us. I get sick of gay men who think because they appear respectable to some straight people they think. they have figured something out, they haven’t. Most straight people. do not care if you sleep with only straight looking men or the most feminine of drag queens you are still a sick queer to them. when you put a dick in your mouth you are a sick vile person as the good christians in our society think we are. The religious freedom laws which give them the right to discriminate wont care if you are trans or the straightest presenting gay man ever you are still gay. YOuact like trans people are out there waiting to ponce on you which they arent and you should go out and actually MEET one and ask them about themselves and quit acting like the hate filled homophobes. grow up
fab0497
FTMs are biological women, this is a fact. Gays are homosexuals, a person who is exclusively attracted by their own sex. It’s not transphobia, it’s part of our homosexual nature not to be attracted to vaginas and biological women. Insulting gays who only want real men and who refuse to put it in a vagina is practically conversion therapy promoted by progressive moviment. This homophobic crap needs to stop.
ZzBomb
Confronting transphobia in our community is not synonymous to requiring you to sleep with a transperson. The 2 are mutually exclusive.
dbmcvey
So, because you’re not attracted to them you should treat them badly and work against their rights?
Not fab.
fab0497
@ZzBomb
It’s not transphobic to consider FTMs women, it’s what they are. women on testosterone. That user crying on nothing
fab0497
dbmcvey@
I only treat “badly” those who insult me for not wanting to put it in their vaginas (that’s most of them). The TQ movement is making us regress with their senseless BS. If you can’t see it, it’s not my fault.
ZzBomb
@fab
Again, for the slow ones in the back of the class:
UNDERSTANDING IS NOT A PREREQUISITE FOR RESPECTING OTHERS
dbmcvey
I don’t know where you hang out but I’ve never had anyone insult me for not wanting to “put it in their vaginas.” You’re making that up.
LumpyPillows
To be honest, I know a lot of trans women. I don’t have to understand them to support their choices. I get that. But with the exception of just one of them, I dislike them all. They are self-centered and mean to everyone in their lives – particularly their super supportive mothers…for some reason. They are not nice people. Interestingly, I think you pro-trans people don’t even know a trans woman personally. Doesn’t stop you from forcing you theoretical views on others though. Kind of disgusting how you talk to people. Just like them.
ZzBomb
@Lumpy,
I personally know several trans people and I’m far and away from being “pro” anything. What I am is a humanitarian and I know how to treat others with respect and kindness regardless.
And there is no “theoretical views” on humanity, it exists, these people exist. There’s nothing theoretical about it. You either know how to be kind and respectful to others, or you don’t. Simple.
fab0497
ZzBomb@
Understanding and respect disappear when dealing with a misogynistic, homophobic and regressive movement
fab0497
dbmcvey@
Me like a lot of lesbians & gays have been attacked by TQ on social networks and in real life, (See the Stonewall veteran Fred Sargeant) harassed for only being attracted to the SAME SEX.
Don’t believe me? You haven’t been paying attention enough or maybe you know about it but deny it
Ps. I noticed that you and ZzBomb replied to me at the same time… so you use fake accounts eh?
barryaksarben
that is such childish whiny crap. Im a cis male who has been 100%n gay my entire life and I have FELT ZERO pressure by trans people or gays or straight people to change and so I know you are lying and just being a troll or you have the lowest self esteem in the world. grow up. Not all people like the same stuff but it down make one more acceptable than another. TROLLS need to kn wo that REAL gay men arent threaten by women or trans or lesbians only BY STRAIGHT people
fab0497
barryaksarben@
So if no one attacked you, no else did it?
dbmcvey
fab, I don’t believe anyone ever attacked you.
decrans
“The 60-year-old victim was punched in the face, knocked to the ground and kicked after one of the suspects tried to grab her camera as she was filming at a gender recognition talk, the Metropolitan police said.
Officers are trying to trace a man and two others, who are believed to be transgender, over the attack at around 9.30pm on Wednesday 13 September at Speakers’ Corner in Hyde Park.
Police believe the suspects were transgender. ”
From the LEFT WING Guardian newspaper. It happens. Reality! Go touch grass.
fab0497
dbmcvey@
How can you say that, do you know me?
monty clift
Heads up to the unaware: @dbmcvey is Queerty’s local T-chaser troll (and several others here as well), of course they don’t believe homophobia exists in the trans community because they are a part of it!! Deny and lie is their motto for a reason.
dbmcvey
No surprise that a few of the usual transphobes are posting here. I’m surprised they haven’t all posted but I’m sure they’ll be here soon.
Baron Wiseman
@dbmcvey
Please, please, please stop with the name-calling. It is not helpful.
Let posters have a conversation/debate without being unnecessarily divisive. These are conversations our community needs to have and if you have nothing to offer than name-calling, then maybe this is a topic you should skip.
If you disagree, fine. Jump in and make a point, an argument that furthers the conversation. Thank you.
dbmcvey
Baron, when you stop with the transphobia I’ll stop with the name calling. Your tranphobia isn’t helpful either and you’re not having a “conversation.” You’re defaming a population.
S.anderson
@dbmcvey: be advised however, that name calling is explicitly against the rules of this forum, whereas stating one’s opinion, even when it differs from your own (which you’re trying to dismiss as ‘transphobia’) is encouraged. Thanks.
LumpyPillows
No surprise your here, dmb. Outnumbered as usual, but thinking you are the majority on this topic.
dbmcvey
@s.anderson
You should follow your own advice based on your “flaming gays” comment. Also, the people who are transphobes on this site are truthfully transphobes so, it’s just telling the truth.
S.anderson
@Baron Wiseman: I’m emphasizing the difference between biology as a fixed thing and gender identity as a negotiable construct.
Baron Wiseman
@S.anderson
Got it!
Baron Wiseman
@dbmcvey
Pointing out a psychological vs biological difference is not “tranphobia.”[sic]
And you will never stop with the name-calling because you have proven (ad nauseam) that is all can provide.
barryaksarben
Baron dear dear Baron here you are again acting like the voice of reason when you are the most hate filled b\nasty piece of work troll that comes here. yes you are jus the kindness , most reasonable of us all. go F off as we all know who and what you really are . drop the ( oh you nasty gay men are so cruel and dont really believe in freedom of speech and your supposed to be so nice bullshit) we again. know who you are and no we are not perfect but you are NOT one of us and you never will be so drop the act troll intel pos. thank dear Baron.
Baron Wiseman
@barryaksarben
What!?!
You didn’t say anything about my butthole this time. I’m hurt.
dbmcvey
Lump,
I don’t care if I’m in the majority or not. There are so many lies in the comments on this site about trans people and you’re one of the main perpetrators.
dbmcvey
Baron, making snarky comments isn’t a “conversation” or “helpful,” just bitchy. I admit I’m a bitch–but you’re a hypocrite.
barryaksarben
hilarious that lumpy pillows says wee are outnumbered when most time it is just his three or four screen names sticking up for each other. you dumbass owe know. your screen names and we are not outnumbered. you are. real gays support all sexual outlaws and dont suck up to e homophobes or transphobes or misognists. NO trans has ever forced anyone to sleep with them. and that is a stupid lie unworthy of your stupid trolling
Prax07
Omg… enough with pushing us to get on board with supporting this trans nonsense.
Last night saw in comments on an insta post, a post by a cute guy doing the “I like sexing men because no matter how much I try I can’t get them pregnant” vids, trans people had to go in say garbage like trans guys can get pregnant, trans guys Are men, be more inclusive, edit yourself to start saying cis men, etc. I just can’t with that stupidity that they NEED to be included in Everything even when it’s not about Them at all.
Just drop the T already.
barryaksarben
NO we will not drop the t already and true gay men never drop any of us to satisfy people like you who cant see anything but your own selfish crap. People on social media post their feelings and if you dont agree that’s fine but to dismiss them out of hand is total cowardly bullish*t. grow up or stay the troll you are. The far right has been caught in two separate meetings. by different groups stating their strategy is to separate trans first then move on to the other letters because in their sick opinion it will be easier to destroy us in smaller groups. NO we are all sexual outlaws and it isn’t just how you want it all
barryaksarben
oh you saw some comments you didnt agree with? poor baby. grow the hell up. it isn’t a valid reason to deny an entire group their opinion because you dont agree. straights have don that to us forever
Man About Town
Yo shayvela: a trans man is not a “woman who’s trying to act like a man,” he IS a man.
Baron Wiseman
@Man About Town
Unfortunately, for that person they are only a man between their ears. Every fiber of their physical body, every atom is female including the point they will need a prostate exam at age 50.
This is a fact, it is not debatable. It is a biological fact. It is also a fact that individual should be treated with respect and dignity.
S.anderson
@Man: How dare you assume their gender!
Baron Wiseman
@Baron Wiseman
Yikes!
“…will NOT need a prostate exam at age 50.”
S.anderson
@Baron: yes, but we all know transmen will insist on getting prostate exams, and demand their insurance cover it.
dbmcvey
Baron,
Do you really think your comment about “between their ears” wasn’t name calling? There was nothing “conversational” or “helpful” about your comment.
What a hypocrite you are.
LumpyPillows
He is not a man. He is a trans man. Repeating this like that a trans man is a man is never going to make it true. It only damages any other pro-trans point you make.
dbmcvey
Do we know that s.anderson? This seems like something conservatives are making up so they can make trans men seem crazy when it’s not based on facts.
Just like the lies that grown men are pretending to be women to participate in women’s sports, which, as Ben Shapiro finally admitted, doesn’t happen.
S.anderson
@dbmmcvey: Joking aside, I believe trans men are men. But they’re female. And trans women are male. Which is still sharply heretical to the trans doctrine, so my allyship is forfeit in the eyes of militant trans and trans-allies.
fab0497
Man: an adult male human
FTM are biological women. It’s not transphobic to said the truth
ShaverC
Man About Town, If that trans man’s DNA is processed, “he” would be be as a woman.
S.anderson
@fab0497: “Man: an adult male human” -You’d be right 199 times out of 200… but it’s not quite true.
Please consider the fact that what it is to be a “man” or “woman” varies among cultures and eras. There have been myriad variations of traits and responsibilities associated to those labels/roles. What is acceptable among “men” in one culture is often absolutely wrong to others. This demonstrates that they are constructs.
ShaverC
S.anderson, Your argument falls flat because you don’t know what you’re saying. There are/have been some (few) matriarchal societies but that was largely limited to inheritance or political leadership. This did not mean that women went to war, or hunted or did other tasks that men normally did. There have been many queens/female leaders throughout history too, but that didn’t mean “gender roles” were switched. The argument about the “three spirit” or “RaeRae” people also doesn’t necessarily mean that most of those men pretending to be women, were actually thought of as women.
Baron Wiseman
@S.anderson
“There have been myriad variations of traits and responsibilities associated to those labels/roles. What is acceptable among “men” in one culture is often absolutely wrong to others.”
You are talking about sociology, while most of us are talking biology.
S.anderson
@ShaverC: You’re literally validating my point that the roles of men and women have varied over time and space. They’re negotiable. They’re constructs. Thank you.
dwick
thank you!
ShaverC
S.anderson, Are you related to Z? You both seem to imagine what I say rather than read it.
fab0497
S.anderson@
Is literally the scientific definition of an adult male human, are you saying science is wrong?
In all eras a man/woman disguised as a woman/man was still considered a man/woman (travestite, drag queen, drag king) The same goes for a man/woman who did feminine/masculine work and was still considered a man/woman.
Society will never see a biological woman as a man and a woman as a man. it’s simply a useless (and counterproductive) battle
S.anderson
@fab0497: Again, there’s no such thing as a “biological woman”. Nor is there a “biological ninja” or “biological English teacher”. These are all learned things and they are different between cultures and eras. They’re negotiable constructs. It is “male” and “female” which are biological.
It’s an important distinction to those who are interested in keeping militant trans and their allies from confusing things for strategic advantage.
fab0497
S.anderson
Again: By scientific definition a man/woman is an adult male/female human. These are the facts, your attempt to find every possible excuse to deny them is almost comical.
S.anderson
@@fab0497 Around half of one percent of the population is trans, so around 1 in 200 males are women/girls and 1 in 200 females are men/boys. If the definition is not right 100% of the time, then it’s wrong. And knowing why is a much richer experience than clinging to a black-and-white falsehood. Good day.
fab0497
S.anderson@
Source: My hairy hole
You make non sense, my guy…
S.anderson
@fab0497: One can easily google the population facts. Your feigned(?) lack of comprehension does not mean I’m wrong.
dbmcvey
Look at all the “helpful” and “conversational” comments by transphobes.
It’s all by gaslight fellas!
fab0497
S.anderson@
So what? this doesn’t change the fact that they are biological women. Your argument makes no sense
S.anderson
Since it’s gotten to the point where even daring to raise an eyebrow, let alone confess that you’re simply not 100% on-board with the Trans Doctrine makes you The Great Enemy, an outright transphobe… well, it does far more to invalidate trans people than it does independent thinkers.
LumpyPillows
It’s the ideological war they have been fighting, using Nazi tactics, for years now. Repeat the lies, destroy anyone who disagrees.
southernscot
@Lumpypillows. Who gets to decide it’s a lie? What about the idea that gay men are not really gay just showing of to be different. One person’s lie may be another person’s truth. If your talking of Biological truths then men are biologically designed to fertilise women through the act of sex! That doesn’t make same sex attraction a lie!
The reference to Nazis tactics is extreme and offensive!
Louis
I am appalled at some of the comments on here.
As ZzBomb says, not wanting to sleep with someone, and not being transphobic, are completely different.
Not once have I heard or read of a trans person calling someone transphobic because the person didn’t want to sleep with them. Never. That would be nonsensical because gay people don’t want to sleep with every other gay person; and yet we would never claim homophobia due to that.
It’s the denial of them as men that makes it transphobic. For those who claim “they are biological women on testosterone”, I disagree. I do believe there is a difference between sex (male/female) and gender (man/woman). The former is biological (based on chromosomes; not body parts) and the latter is a societal construct. This can be evidenced by the fact that society has always dictated what makes someone a man or woman (note; not male or female). A male who is more into theatre than sports, isn’t buff, is intellectual, has for decades if not centuries been considered “less of a man” than the alpha types. A female who doesn’t wear dresses, who enjoys sports over dolls (a “tom boy”), has for decades if not centuries been considered “less of a woman” (it’s actually there in the name “tom boy”). So for ages, society has given meaning to man/woman – hence gender being subjective and flexible. Therefore an individual born female CAN identify as a man and it is accurate.
Additionally, it is the denial of them being able to use facilities relating to the gender with which they identify that makes it transphobic.
Finally, it’s the denial of them deserving to have rights and legal protection that makes it transphobic. Remember once upon a time it was considered a mental disorder to identify as gay? A mental disorder! Gays today would never accept such outdated views. Well, those views remain for our trans brothers and sisters. Being trans is still considered (effectively) a mental disorder that requires psychological evaluation and “approval” in order for the individual to live as their gender. Can you imagine if gays had to get “approval” before they were allowed to be called gay and sleep with the same gender?
So no, not wanting to sleep with a trans person doesn’t make one transphobic and that’s not what the community is complaining about. What they’re asking for is acknowledgment of their gender, equality in legal protection, and the ability to use and attend facilities that align with their gender. It’s not exactly difficult to support those wishes.
S.anderson
@Louis: I pretty much agree. However, just like when the flaming gays moved to outlaw terms like “straight acting only” on hookup sites, trans people are vehement that nobody should dare publicly state that they’re not into trans people as sex partners. As though people will give them a try out of guilt. And when someone says “I’m not sexually attracted to trans people”, the trans people (scroll up on this page, they did it here) sniff “WELL, I don’t care what plumbing people have in order to be my friends”. But we’re not talking about friendship, or any other form of affirmation of one’s humanity. We’re talking about not being 100% on-board with the trans person literally being the sex they wanted to be. It’s strategic smoke-blowing.
dbmcvey
I agree Louis, conservatives are making claims about things trans people are supposedly doing, which I’ve never heard of IRL. It seems like fantasies to me.
dbmcvey
@s.anderson
There should be “straight acting only” on hookup sites because if they’re looking to have sex with other men they’re not “acting straight.” But really, tell me what site you can’t use “masc” on? Also, why do you have to “publicly state” you’re not into trans people? Just don’t engage with them sexually. I’m telling you, trans people aren’t out there forcing people to have sex with them. You’re just making that up.
S.anderson
@dbmcvey: BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW, stating that you are “masc” on a hookup site, and leaving it to that, will result in a lot of “non-masc” offering their unwanted goodies. One is just as entitled to saying “I am masc” as they are to say “and I am seeking masc”. Why would anyone insist that people not say what they are looking for?
fab0497
Society (and science) has always considered a man to be an adult male human with a penis and a woman to be an adult female human with a vagina. Again: It’s not transphobic not to consider them men, it’s the truth. FTM’s are female. Period
“Remember once upon a time it was considered a mental disorder to identify as gay?”
That’s because ignorance and religion motives. Gender dysphoria is truly a mental disorder that causes inconsistencies between mind and body, these inconsistencies can lead to depression. Don’t use this excuse, it doesn’t work
dwick
I’ve never heard a trans person say anyone was transphobic if they didn’t want to sleep with them.
ShaverC
dwick, So if you didn’t experience it, it couldn’t have happened to anyone else?
barryaksarben
thank you for a reasoned response to this anti trans hysteria. The right. for decades said we gay men weren’t men. It is BS when it is about us and it is BS about any other group. Yes we all would have our dns show us to be men but many straight people dont care what the DNA says. Stop, take. breathe and tell me how many of you have ever actually known a single trans person and spoken to them? You are speaking out of ignorance. And who cares if they are biologically male or female if you are not involved. Most straight people dont care what we are it is what we do that angers them and Im not changing one thin about who I am or what I do to satisfy any otters group and I bet all of you are nt willing to do that either. accept them it doesnt take a damned thing away from you and it pissses off the bigots. that alone would make us all stick together. There is not one straight person alive no matter how understanding know what it is to be gay and if you are not trans you do not know enough about them to be so hate filled. stop being trolls to make yourself feel better
decrans
Louis should seek out the Trans Karen account on TikTok. Just this month, Trans Karen whined in a restaurant about cis men not wanting to screw trans women. That’s another point. Transgender has reached a nadir of being performance art on social media, which is why a decent chunk of society refuses to take it seriously. It is what it is.
decrans
Another area that Louis lacks nuance..And I will scream it from the rooftops and die on this hill: Kids have sexual trauma and adopt Trans identification. And doctors misdiagnose. We see it from the 15 active detransitoner lawsuits (and climbing!)
Now, if yall good intentioned progressives wished we could just exercise blank cheques for surgery willy-nilly, you would get in there and clearly delineate the sexual trauma parameters. As most Americans have seen time and time again, you punt the football down the field. You’re not serious about sussing these real world implications out, hence the problems which are currently biting you in the ass. Figure it out.
dbmcvey
s.anderson,
Stating that you’re “masc” will just get a lot of responses. Stop whining. Live your life and stop blaming trans people for your failures.
dbmcvey
Also, s.anderson, people put “masc for masc” all the time and no one is suspended.
S.anderson
@@dbmcvey: You’re not going to get away with that false narrative. Everyone knows fems on hookup sites are forever gnashing their teeth about Mascs explicitly eliminating them in their bios; “no fems”. Fems are also efficiently turning away any allies by mobbing anyone who doesn’t explicitly eliminate them in their bios.
still_onthemark
@decrans:
“Louis should seek out the Trans Karen account on TikTok.”
With a bit of trepidation, I looked for a TikTok account named Trans Karen and can’t find one. There are some sorta-kinda similar names but what’s the one you mean? The name sounds satirical, though. Based just on the name I wouldn’t assume she/he was totally serious.
decrans
Trans Karen is the unofficial Internet moniker. This person makes videos about being misgendered in restaurants while berating low-paid and usually people of color wait staff. If a cis white man did this shtick, heaven forbid. This person monetizes this behavior, meanwhile. You can Google search “trans Karen restaurant” and it’s the first result from a San Francisco news station. As I said, Trans Karen’s last video involved claiming that straight men must screw trans women. Otherwise, it’s transphobic not to engage with a floppy Spiro dong, you know.
decrans
@lilytino
monty clift
@fab0497, Heterosexual FTMs fetishize gay men, so for them, it’s not a mental disorder; it’s paraphilia, narcissism, and homophobia. Nobody should have to tolerate predators, regardless of what gender they identify with. I’m appalled at predatory apologists and denialists like @Louis. Just because you haven’t heard about it doesn’t mean it’s not happening. There are endless articles and social media posts (from trans people) written about it, and gay men and women are speaking out against it. You must really have your head buried deep in the sand to have never heard about this.
S.anderson
I don’t want to seem like policing anyone’s language, but there are no biological men or women! Those roles/labels are gender identities. We are biologically male or female.
Also, it would be dandy if we are careful to say “gender identities” instead of “gender” as that word is a synonym for “sex”, and that confusion is used strategically by militant trans and their allies to muddy up the differences.
ZzBomb
In biology there is also intrasex and hermaphrodites. Even in biology, it’s not as clear cut as you think it is.
S.anderson
@ZzBomb: I’m actually glad you chimed in here. This bears pointing out.
Intrasex, hermaphrodites and other ambiguous are also only male/female. You’ll find that they are either male, female or a mixture of the two. There is no third, fourth, fifth sex. So no need to but-but-but this.
LumpyPillows
Gender is not a social construct. Gender roles are social constructs. Gender is male, female or birth defect. There are biological men and women. You contradicted yourself multiple times.
There is a social movement to deny reality – it is not science or reality based. Everyone does not get their own gender.
ZzBomb
@S
“Intrasex, hermaphrodites and other ambiguous are also only male/female”
Literally no.
S.anderson
@LumpyPillows AS YOU KNOW, the word “gender” has lately been appropriated to replace, and subsume, the term “gender identity”. When people say ‘gender’ now, they are either referring to one’s constructed identity, or they are strategically using it to confuse biological sex for one’s identity. To the point that some confused folks claim that it’s a myth (and a maneuver on the part of transphobes) to claim that ‘gender’ and ‘sex have ever been used as synonyms.
S.anderson
@ZzBomb: Literally, yes.
Intersex and hermaphodites are formed of either male components, female components, or a mixture of both. It’s also reflected in their genes. There is no third sex which possesses a ‘squigelyspooge” or “plumbus” instead of penis, vagina, testicles or ovaries.
Malformed organs don’t count as new organs any more than hydrocephalus or hypospadias.
inbama
By the Zzbomb’s logic, because of thalidomide babies born missing legs, we should deny that humans are primates.
Disorders of Sexual Development – the technical term for “intersex people” – are tragic birth defects. Most are sterile. They do not actual sexes.
The human species is anisogamous – females carry eggs, males carry sperm.
Being gay should not mean you have to accept quack pseudoscience.
southernscot
I think it is possible to show respect to the trans community but not necessarily agree on every aspect where there is divergence in thinking. Its fine to support a Gay trans man right to identify as a gay man, and they can sleep with however consents to do so. Its equally ok to not want to sleep with a trans gay man, as a gay man, with out that being Transphobic.
Lets stop pointing fingers at each other on who is the most phobic and recognise its good for both ou our detractors if we are infighting. Trans rights are under attack more than I can remember in the last 30 years. Its not a giant leap to know the gay community is next!
When rights are given it implies they can also be taken away just as quick!
S.anderson
@southerscot: I agree with you, but the trans community refuses to return that respect in kind. You’re simply the Great Enemy to them if you don’t agree with them fully, and they seem to be ever on their guard for noncompliance. It sucks being their allies.
LumpyPillows
Saying you are a gay man when you are a gay trans man is a meaningful lie. It represents yourself as something very different from what you are and will not be cool with the gay man you trick into becoming intimate. It’s like you only live in your head and never go out into the real world.
southernscot
@s.anderson. I have to say that’s not my experience. I have found that most trans individuals have recognised that there is a difference between sexuality and gender identity. That then does seem to blur a bit when someone identifies as trans and gay. Regardless it doesn’t real matter that much as we are all for having the right to be who we are and maintain that, in turn, that has no impact on the rights of anyone else. So nothing really to disrespect!
southernscot
@lumpypillows. Who are al these gay men that are being tricked into sleeping with trans men. Its just not happening. If you identify as a man it doesn’t then apply that you have to be a straight man! It all comes down to being adults that have the ability to consent to who they sleep with. There are gong to be gay cis men that are ok with sleeping with gay trans men. In recent episodes of international episodes of Drag Race, there have been Trans gay men with gay male partners. There are no boxes that we all have to fit in!
fab0497
southernscot@
They’re bisexual, actual gay men don’t sleep with someone with a vagina (aka woman). Stop erasing gay men
fab0497
LumpyPillows@
Exactly
southernscot
@fab0497. No one is ever going to erase gay men, women or tans people. That idea is ridiculous! We have always existed and always will, Stop feeling so threatened and stop putting people in boxes. Who are you to decide if a gay man partners with a gay trans man , is bisexual. Being labelled has always been an issue for all. Focus on maintaining the ability to fight against the real issue which again always has and always will be the right to be who you are!
fab0497
@fab0497.
If they’re sleep with biological women, they’re NOT gay. Yes, you are erase us , real gay men DO NOT sleep with biological women. I know reality is difficult for you to accept, but it’s how it is. TQ activists fail to erase homosexuality as an same-sex attraction
ShaverC
southernscot, “Who are you to decide if a gay man partners with a gay trans man , is bisexual.” Do you not realize that someone who’s attracted to both male & female is bisexual? Are you surprised by that revelation?
southernscot
@fab0497. I am describing reality. You are the one denying others their view on reality. I am a real gay man and have different view to you. That doesn’t make my understanding any less real than yours. As I said there are gay cis men in relationships gay trans men, it is a reality You can chose to call it otherwise and say they are Bi but I believe that they are still gay men!
In no way are gay men being erased, that is reality!
ShaverC
southernscot, Someone’s “view” on reality does not equal reality. I view myself as being 33 years old… the mirror reminds me that I’m not.
S.anderson
@southernscot: I agree with Shaver; One can’t “deny” another their own belief system unless they’re supplying information which clearly invalidates that belief system. And that’s a good thing; dragging someone’s head out of their ass. It can be a point of conflict if one person is hoping to recruit others into their belief system but that dang meddler with his ‘points’ and ‘facts’ is not helping, heh.
fab0497
southernscot@
You’re reality is fantasy. Those guys are bisexual (androsexuals to be precise). Gay men ARE not attracted to vaginas and biological women. PERIOD
THAT is REALITY!
“I am a real gay man”
Sure Jan, sure…
southernscot
@Fab0497. And there we go “sure Jan sure’ I guess by that you are questioning my sexuality? How could I be gay if I disagree with you. It is a rather pathetic approach to deny those that disagree with you, their identity.
Again face the real foe, it’s certainly not the trans community or any other part of the LGBTQI+ community.
fab0497
southernscot@
Because I have met many bisexuals (who pretended to be gay) with your mentality. Actual gays (like 99% of population) know that if you put it in a vagina, you’re not gay.
Again: Stop pushing these offensive narratives.
monty clift
A “trans gay man” is just a heterosexual woman with a fetish. Why should we as gay men respect homophobia from creepy straight women who want to be us? You must be out of your mind to think we should accept this.
monty clift
“Trans rights are under attack more than I can remember in the last 30 years. Its not a giant leap to know the gay community is next!”
This statement is pure manipulation and gaslighting. For the past thirty years, the trans community has been pulling apart gay rights and identity. You have been targeting homosexual people and their rights from the beginning, so your claim that we are “next” is a deceptive threat used to coerce gay men and women into submitting to trans homophobia. This tactic isn’t working anymore. More LGB people are speaking out against it than ever before.
southernscot
@Monty Cliff. There is no gas lighting here, just observations on the changes we are seeing in the way society is now dealing with LGBTQI+. Are you denying the changes happening in US states like Florida, where books are being banned as they refer to Homosexuality? Did the US supreme court not just uphold a case where a graphic designer wants to refuse service to gay people based on her religious beliefs.
This is a change in direction to what had been seen as positive progress. Who would have thought that Roe vs Wade could have been overturned. The same could happen to Obergefell vs Hodges, if the right get there way. The Respect for Marriage Act doesn’t prevent states from refusing to issue marriage licences to same sex couples if the ruling on O vs H is overturned.
These are real and current issues not fear mongering.
The rise of the right is a problem across many western societies, with politicians attacking the rights already given to the LGBTQI+ community. It is totally in their favour if the can divide our community!
Also I am not Trans, I am a gay man, please respect my identity.
dbmcvey
Conservative gaslighting is never really all that surprising. They say we should be civil but they say things that are truly terrible (though often in a pleasant tone of voice). They say they are having a “conversation” but really they’re just continuing hate speech, but claiming it’s just “ideas” when they’re just putting out conservative talking points. They claim the “other side” is hateful in an effort to silence people they disagree with.
Also, I truly doubt that trans men are out there shaming gay men who don’t want to have sex with them in great numbers. This is a fantasy, “I’m so hot everyone wants me.”
LumpyPillows
dmb, you are never civil. You always make personal attacks. Trying to change this reality too?
dbmcvey
Lumps,
you’re never civil either. Also, I don’t claim to be civil, as opposed to the people who come on here saying truly terrible things and claiming they’re just “having a conversation.”
S.anderson
@dbmcvey: You’re entitled to your own doubts, but you’re not doing any good by narrating your opponent’s gosh-darn civilized behavior and doggone tricksy willingness to sit down and debate as sure-fire signs of hate. Sheesh.
dbmcvey
@s.anderson,
I’m entitled to my doubts because reality seems to contradict what you say.
If someone on a hookup site calls you names, ignore them, just like the “fem” people do when “masc” people insult them.
LeBlevsez
Gosh, but all you transphobes sure do swarm on these Queerty articles in a jiff. It’s almost like y’all are just buzzing around waiting for an opportunity to get validation from each other. Guess you’re not really getting any in the real world. Getting validation, that is.
Stefano
So true what you say.
fab0497
Transphobes or just people tired of the TQ madness?
Believe me most people (even neutral ones) are getting tired of them
Stefano
fab0497 : I think it is moslty White gaymen who are transphobes.
Baron Wiseman
@Stefano
I think it’s gay white men who are willing to speak up and not worry about the consequences.
fab0497
@Stefano
What makes you say that?
Stefano
@La Baronne : That’s what we’ll see in 2025. You’ll be sorry you supported a facist. It’ll be too late to complain. You’ll regret it, I’m sure of it. Good Luck White gay men.
dwick
TQ madness? I’m gay not queer? JFC on a cracker-look at the name of the site you’re currently spamming!
Baron Wiseman
@Stefano
And why will I be sorry I supported a “facist”?[sic] Do tell.
Stefano
@La Baronne : Make your own analysis. Be independent for once and stop asking others how to think.
fab0497
dwick@
Spamming or am I simply telling the truth? Everyone sees them inventing 100 genders and pronouns every day, forcing women to accept biological men into their space, pushing hormones on minors, and attacking gays and lesbians etc. TQ are doing enormous damage to the entire community, but you all are too busy accusing anyone of being transphobic to see it
Baron Wiseman
@Stefano
What!?! Are you new here?
As one of the only conservative voices on here, who am I asking to think for me?
Also, you didn’t answer my previous question about supporting a fascist. Do tell.
dbmcvey
I like that people are ignoring the troll.
Prax07
Love seeing that I’m not alone in being fed up with all the trans nonsense being slammed onto our heads. There’s no avoiding it when they beat you to death with it day in and day out online.
southernscot
Maybe that is how straight people perceive the gay rights movement! Didn’t stop us!
RickHeathen
There’s nothing wrong with being kind, and it isn’t hard, so why can’t people just be kind and mind their own GD business?
S.anderson
@RickHeathen: Why don’t people realize that something sus is up when one side says that “everyone is entitled to have their say” yet they insist the other side “mind their own business”?
Observant
I’m going to preface my remarks by identifying myself as a mid- to far left liberal who has never voted Republican in my life. I also have a gender-questioning kid of whom I’m very proud and supportive. I feel the need to do so because dbmcvey, cam, and blabflab have more than once accused me of being a right-wing troll and possessor or multiple screen names. I’m neither.
First point: the trans community is not a single united movement. There is a sizable schism between strident activists and more traditional (which is not synonymous with conservative) members of the community.
Second point: Neither perception nor attraction can be dictated. Some of the commenters may have stated it a bit crudely, but there is undoubtedly a “You must perceive me as I perceive myself AND you must see me as sexually attractive” sense of indignation among trans activists. “Transwomen are women” and “trans men are men” are not nondebatable assertions.
Third point: Inventing language and terminology in support of your cause with the intention of othering adherents to what is the long-established societal norm (i.e., labeling men/males and women/females who have never questioned their gender as “cis,” insisting that public introductions include preferred pronouns, replacing “mother,” “woman,” or “female” with “persons who menstruate or give birth,” etc.) is not only detrimental to your cause, but frankly ludicrous.
Fourth point: In response to the approach of labeling anyone who does not subscribe to each and every assertion made by the trans activist community a transphobe (and attempting to achieve their submission through intimidation and/or loss of employment/accreditation/income) there are now proposed legislative bans in states all around the country that would make illegal the display of pride flags, equality flags, diversity displays, BLM flags, etc. The strident, non-compromising approach of extreme trans activists is undermining years of progress not only for themselves, but for other marginalized communities as well.
Final point: One can support, respect, and defend trans people and still disagree with specific language, assertions, claims, beliefs, and opinions.
southernscot
@Observant Not sure I follow your third point. We seem to be ok saying gay male and straight male to differentiate in language, so why not Cis man and Trans man for the same reason. Or are we oly defining those that ‘question’ their sexuality From that is then makes sense that a trans man may give birth and identify as a father.
Do we get into a situation that if we say there is no such thing as a trans man then there is no such thing as a gay man? Wouldn’t that be great! We are all just men or women regardless of who we sleep with and what genitals we have! Ah but no, that won’t work as it’s binary!
on your 4th point, why blame the transactivists and not the conservatives that have implemented these bans?????? I don’t think that transactivists are where the undermining of progress is coming from. There were already attacks on gay rights and women’s rights should we blame women and the gay community for those?
S.anderson
@southernscot: or do we get into a situation where we don’t question trans people employing the term “cis” while at the same time objecting to themselves being labelled “trans”? What’s good for the goose is good for the gender.
decrans
They accuse everyone of being a far right conservative over the slightest disagreement. It shows how simple minded and vacuous their arguments are. Like the Trump voters they disdain. Peas in a damn pod.
DarkZephyr
I fully expected the comment section under this article to be an exercise in proving this article correct. Sadly I wasn’t wrong.
Stefano
You are so right. I’m really not proud to be a gay men, especially when I read comments on Queerty. It is like we don’t remember how conservatives treat us…we are doing the same thing to others…However, I’m convinced that reality will catch up with us.
DarkZephyr
I agree with you 100% Its mind boggling to me when the marginalized marginalize others. And some of these men are so extra *nasty* about it, too. No compassion at all. Its disgusting.
monty clift
Oh, please! Enough with the dramatics, Stefano.
Kangol2
Thank you, DarkZephyr and Stefano. The irony is lost on so many here.
southernscot
@Stefano. Totally agree.
PQ
This comment thread is further proof that we will never improve as a society until Boomers and the Silent Generation finally die…after bleeding social security dry and changing more laws to cling to their wealth and backward ideas.
southernscot
@PQ You are delusional. Every generation feels the world has been ruined by the previous generations. You will find the same will happen to you when you reach old age. Get over it and focus on the real problems of today which are faced by all regardless of age! The topic here is about discrimination based on sexuality and gender identity. How should we deal with that?
dwick
I doubt the transphobes are all of that generation. I’ve noticed plenty of younger people expressing their hatred as well. They’re usually white, male, and upper middle class. They’re also tend to be more conservative. They have theirs so screw everyone else.
inbama
@PG
When the last boomer dies, you will still be an imbecile blaming others for your being a failure.
S.anderson
PQ is kind of right, in a sad little way. The struggle may never end until those with first-hand experience and remember history are gone and only the ignorant remain.
fab0497
I’m a Gen Z lol
Openminded
PQ, your comment shows just how stupid you are. How much have you contributed to Social Security? How much wealth have you generated for yourself that needs protecting from many of today’s youth who are so backwards they aren’t “comfortable” going out in public and earning a living, yet demand that the gov’t provides for them. We Boomers worked and survived during the start of the AIDS epidemic. We did this with zero support from the gov’t. NO life saving drugs, NO free medical care, NO support from outside our community. I’m looking down the barrel of retirement and closing my self built business. A business that has allowed me to work hard and get paid well enough I’ve maxxed out S.S. taxes for the last 23 of 47 years of hard ass work. What will I get for this? A hell of a lot less from Social Security than my investments have made over the years plus the obligation of paying income tax on both my investment withdrawals AND a large part of my social security check. The saddest part is that NOBODY is interested in taking over my business. So be careful what you wish for because when all of us Boomers and Silent Gens are gone, you candy asses will be wondering where’s all the stuff at, what do you mean the warehouse is empty, why isn’t someone building a new road for me, why isn’t someone developing a new drug that will halt that new disease that is spreading among the gay community. I’ll venture a guess that the gov’t is largely supporting you with rent, medical, and food subsidies. I’ll add that I’m betting your pissed off because Biden can’t pay off enough of your stupid student loan. You punk kids today think it is your “right” to receive FREE housing, food, and life saving drugs that allow you to continue your unsafe sexual behavior that is also your “right”. Our constitution guarantees the right to the PERSUIT of happiness. It does not guarantee any of us find happiness yet your entitled ass has twisted the truth into a lie that you shouldn’t have to work, yet you should be given everything that makes you Happy. For your information, we Boomers are wishing you entitled young punks would go ahead and overdose and get off the Social Security Disability wagon. That’s where the real issue with S.S. is today. S.S. Disability is the new retirement plan for young people who don’t want to work and have learned the gov’t will provide. Social Security Retirement has been lumped in as an “entitlement program” which couldn’t be any farther from the truth. Social Security Disability is an “entitlement program”, but sadly you kids don’t even know there is a difference.
PQ
Openminded, the most hilarious part of your response is that you think your generation is still doing things like building new roads and businesses. Gen X here – not wealthy but not poor. Live a debt free, pretty average middle class life with a solid retirement savings and just enough left over to be happy from day to day. Paid my way through school by earning scholarships and working at night. Work 40 hours a week and volunteer on the weekend. Your rant further proves my point that your generation is nothing but selfish bigots who live in stereotypes and outdated, backward ideas. I’m guessing no one wants your business because it is YOUR business. And for your generation to lecture young people about unsafe sex practices is the height of too muchery. Or did you forget about that AIDS crisis you mentioned earlier. Seems like if you boys wore condoms and kept it in your pants, I wouldn’t have spent my youth watching all my gay elders die. And I’m complaining about SS because I have to pay into it so that you can collect it. Seems pretty reasonable for me to resent paying into your retirement.
PQ
S.anderson, I’ve lived and remember the same history you do. The difference is that because of the adversity we have faced as gay people, I am willing to apply compassion and empathy to our trans brothers and sisters. Because I lived that history I know all too well how difficult their lives are and how desperately they need our support. You lived the past and because of that feel entitled to something. I lived the past and because of that want to make life easier and better for others.
PQ
Inbama, the only one responsible for the quality of my life is me. And I like my life very much. Am I the world’s biggest success? Certainly not. Am I a failure? Not that either. I live a pretty average, pleasant life that I would put solidly in the middle. Will life be better for all of us, myself included, once the younger generations start undoing the failures of yours? 100%. Like many of gen x, I find myself caught in the middle between their idealism and your selfishness.
decrans
What does this “support” look like? More government entitlements for gender reconstruction surgery, one that is mostly experimental with wildly varied success rates? Millennial here. This idea is going over like a lead balloon.
still_onthemark
No need to descend into generational warfare about Social Security.
Social Security can be fixed permanently and EASILY by raising or removing the income cap (currently $168,000).
S.anderson
@PQ: “Because I’ve lived the past?” Well shame on me for having lived in the past and not just in this Brave New World where trans lie about what the past was like and who really did what. Shame on me for remembering the past as it really happened and not having yet been worn down by modern shrieking propagandists enough to stop speaking up. Let me tell you now about gravity and electricity so you can deny those too.
Openminded
Still on the mark, Uncapping the SS limit will help, but not as much as many would have you believe. IF you uncap the contribution limits you will be forced to uncap the retirement payment limit which will greatly nullify the action. Not saying it won’t help some, as at least a few of the high income earners will die young, but the pundits who are lobbying for this are presenting a plan where the high income earners will pay nearly 15% of their total income into SS but only receive the current max pay out of today. I’m getting way off topic here, but my “fix” for the system is to have business pay ALL the income tax/retirement tax and individuals only pay property tax, sales tax, etc. on what they own or buy. Yes, the percentage will be high for businesses but there will be a large trade-off of other taxes this way. The IRS could shrink to nearly nothing yet still be able to audit every “tax payer” since it would be only businesses and not the millions of individuals and illegal immigrants that are able to play the odds of not being audited/caught underpaying. Although, I’m a conservative businessman, but I realize this country was built for the people, not the businesses, so it only makes sense to put the onus on businesses to pay the lion’s share of the taxes. All this said, it is very ignorant and shallow minded for people to wish a generation to die so that they can be better off. We old farts have paid in way more SS taxes than we will ever receive in return. The facts show that SS is going underwater due to 1. The system started paying retirement benefits from day one to people who hadn’t had the chance to contribute. (Paid with “borrowed” money), 2. Gov’t borrowed from the once huge fund balance for non-retirement expenses while only basically reimbursing the fund the principal with little interest. 3. Greatly expanded the “Disability” eligibility with very little monitoring of actual need until it was too late. 4. Yes, the boomers grew to be a huge lot of people, but they still paid in at the same rates as the smaller lot before them, and boomers had exponentially more households where both spouses worked and both spouses paid in while only 1- spouse gets full benefits and the other spouse only receives 1/2 benefits. If you really look at the numbers, the boomers are getting the shaft compared to previous SS recipients as far as return on investment goes except for those who are living well beyond the average life span. 5. The increased life span was something nobody could factor which is an issue for the system. However, the younger generations are benefiting from longer life expectancy also so it is hardly fair to have them wish for boomers to die.
Openminded
PQ, I KNOW my generation is still building roads and other businesses. YOUR generation believes everyone can get rich thru online transactions and buying GameStop stock, or better yet, BitCoin. YOUR generation isn’t out there starting a new factory or housing project. YOUR generation is busy whining because the IRS is still attempting to force payment handling businesses and others to report ANY transfer of money in excess of $600 in an attempt to fairly tax all these basement start ups running a business under the radar and not paying their fair share of the tax burden. Too many of you young people want to dodge the responsibility of business license, insurance, regulatory agencies, commercial tags on that mini van you write off on your taxes because you occasionally make a run in it to the UPS store to ship some second hand crap you sold online in your unlicensed “business”. So YES, I know for a fact that many people my age are still out there building for the future.
I can promise you that within 20-30 years there will be studies and news reports on what happened to the work force? “Why can’t we get anything built?” “Maybe our mothers and fathers were actually earning a living and carrying their weight after all?” “Why didn’t they warn us about this?” “Nobody told me slinging burgers for 20 hrs a week at Mc’D’s wasn’t really contributing to the betterment of society. ”
I’ll finish with acknowledging that today’s youth ain’t got a snowballs chance in hell right now. I didn’t have much of a chance when I graduated late 70’s when you couldn’t buy a job but the industrious could get out on their own and start a legit business easier then than can be done now. Still, your only hope is to get out there and dig in. That’s the only way to really secure your own future and stop big business from taking over everyone’s lives by controlling how much you are paid, when you will work, and how much you will pay for life’s necessities. The sooner everyone stops expecting the gov’t or their employer to provide them an enjoyable life by simply showing up for 40 hrs a week, the better off you will be.
BobKS
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GayNOTQueer
Funny how insufferable PC Queers are the ones to SCREEN #METOO, #TIMESUP, #CONCENT!!! And yet, we gay men are FORCED to have sex with ttansmen because if not… TRANSPHOBIA! It’s societal blackmail. When did gay men owe people sex? What? Should we start forcing straight men to have sex with us to prove their not homophobic? Hypocrisy much? Guess consent doesn’t count where gay men’s bodies are concerned.
southernscot
Where are all these Trans men forcing gay men to have sex with them? It just isn’t true. A trans gay man may lament that he is not getting to sleep with other gay men, so what? Nobody is forcing anyone to sleep with them for the optics.
dwick
Forced to have sex? No one is forcing anyone to have sex with anyone.
monty clift
@southernscot, It’s literally written in this article. You predator apologists are disgusting.
southernscot
@Monty Cliff. Where in the article is there any reference to gay men being forced to have sex with Trans men? You seem to be changing the narrative of the article.
Your description of Trans Gay men just being fetishists is reminiscent of the arguments people have used against gay men in the past!
You are quite offensive. You know nothing much about me but feel comfortable to say I am predator apologist and therefore disgusting. Explain how you have come to that conclusion?
People can hold different views and still be reasonable human beings.
nm4047
sound off all they like, the VAST majority by a country mile of gay men & women don’t identify with trans people. Not sure in what universe someone that identifies as female when born male vice versa are not oppressed due to their sexuality. A guy that wants to ID as a woman and have sex with women is still a straight guy. I’d be fully supportive of the gay & lesbian community just being called that, do away with this alphabet and at a pinch include bi people. It’s the gay & lesbian community, not all the addons that seem to be ever increasing.
dbmcvey
I don’t need to identify with trans people to support their rights.
S.anderson
I don’t need to identify with trans people to support their rights, and I do support their rights. Sadly, one must be 100% in compliance with their doctrine, or else one’s allyship is invalid in their eyes.
dbmcvey
@s.anderson,
That’s just not true. Nothing will happen to you if you’re 75% in agreement.
Stefano
@La Barone : First of all, you’re not the only conservative “voice” here. So stop playing games. Secondly, you keep coming on this site to inundate us with your views. Numerous people here have already shown you on several occasions that your idol (whose praises you never stop praising) hates women, gays and immigrants (he’s very proud of this and spends his time saying it on his social media, at meetings between Republicans and all over the media…do a little research and you’ll see for yourself). So no matter how hard I try to argue with you, even if I rub your nose in it, you’ll continue to deny that it’s bullshit. You spend so much time commenting on articles that it’s hard to believe you have a life outside Queerty.
Baron Wiseman
@Stefano
Perhaps English isn’t your first language, but when I say “one of the only” it doesn’t mean only. That would be inaccurate and it is not what I said. So who “is playing games”?
I believe you are trying to say that Trump is my idol. He is not; I don’t have any idols. So he hates gays? Golly, I have never heard that one. Give me a quote, any quote. We just did this a few days ago when the eternal perpetual victim, dbmcvey, made all kinds of accusations and couldn’t back any of them up. Just like you.
“Make your own analysis. Be independent for once and stop asking others how to think.”
So again, you made an accusation about me not thinking for myself. Who thinks for me? Who does my “analysis”? Considering I am one of the rare conservative voices on here please let me know whom I am asking to think for me?
Also waiting on all those examples of fascism that you talked about.
Prediction: Stefano has made three accusations and he will not be able to back any of them up. Here in America, which you so eagerly disparage, it is considered proper discourse to able justify and rationalize your accusations.
dbmcvey
The troll just insulted someone’s English. Not very “communicative” or “helpful.” More just bitchy.
Baron Wiseman
@dbmcvey
Stefano is not American and generally not considered an English-oriented name.
Feel better, pumpkin? Maybe you would feel better “tattling” on someone else, mean girl. Please make sure to call them names (your specialty) as I know how it makes you feel better about yourself to denigrate and belittle others with your Rolodex of hate.
Openminded
My take on this issue is that everyone younger than 50 y/o wants everything RIGHT NOW. It has taken the LGB community decades upon decades to get where they are today. The trans community, in societies eye, is a relatively new group, (Countdown to the screams), yet like all youth today, they want to be recognized and supported just like the LGB community… RIGHT NOW!!!. I’m not saying that they don’t deserve recognition and support. I’m saying that the general population sees them as “just another new group demanding rights”. The trans community, IMHO, has to learn patience and show, thru time, just who they are and why they deserve to be treated equally. Is this right?, I don’t know. I do know it’s how things work in this world. If I had the authority to require ALL MSM people to submit to bi-annual STD testing starting now, there would be a tremendous outcry and pushback on how I am infringing on your rights, even though it would likely be the best thing for our long term health. I won’t be surprised, however, that this won’t come to pass in the next couple of decades. (For those of you on PreP, do you really think the recurring STD testing requirements are actually medically necessary to safely continue taking the meds? I think it’s a great idea, but I also believe it is just another gov’t play on the ongoing “we’ll provide you with xyz IF you will do abc.”)
I will add, it’s so hypocritical when many comments here declare that we should be nicer to each other and tolerate others who are different, yet let me make a single conservative comment, and I’m suddenly a satanic troll. Make up your minds people. Either we are going to try to be civil or most of you are going to be “Moronic, entitled liberals wanting everything given to you.” (Just Kidding guys 🙂 )
PQ
So what you’re saying that is the because you suffered, they need to suffer as well? This is how a child thinks.
decrans
Nope. They’ve been trained by a materialistic culture to want gender transitions now! It doesn’t work that way. It’s a lifelong process, not an episode of RuPaul’s Drag Race. You can see the twentysomething coming up against this reality on various Reddit threads and performative TikTok videos.
Openminded
PQ, Didn’t say that at all. As much as I hate to admit it, decrans pretty well sums it up. Simply because youth “wants” something doesn’t mean they should have it NOW. I know that’s hard for you to comprehend living in a world where you can wake up at 2 AM wanting a hamburger and by simply making a few taps on your phone, someone will be at your door within 30 minutes with a burger. That instant gratification works because someone is making money off of your impatience. Changes like greater trans acceptance take time because it’s not a financial gain for someone else. It’s a matter of educating the general population why your cause is worthy of their support. Trust me, IF you had enough money to make this a financial exchange just like that 2AM burger delivery, you could get all the trans acceptance you want by the end of the week. You simply can’t demand society to see things your way overnight. It has nothing to do with how much I may or may not have suffered in the past. Black people didn’t get to ride in the front of the bus overnight. Trans people are being foolish if they think they can fast track societal shifts much quicker. MLK’s peaceful but firm, factual, and sensible push for black rights got a whole lot more changed than any demands or riots. Of course, not too many trans activist were alive to see MLK’s movement.
FreddieW
“one in which some think LGB equality is an acceptable substitute for LGBT equality”
Yes, I wasn’t born LGBT. I was born gay, which doesn’t obligate me to buy into anything transgender activists say. I’ll be happy to speak out against actual persecution, but sorry — I’m not pushing for acceptance of stuff I think is nutty. Use your own voice and money to do that.
mastik8
Now do the homophobia, female erasure and internalized transphobia of the trans movement.
Diplomat
Trans rights and edicts:
1. The right to call you queer instead of gay to cover their weirdness though you hate it.
2. The right to call women birthing people so fake men can have babies.
3. The insane and impossible right to transition from male to female and visa versa..
4. They force you to acknowledge them as real or get fired from your job.
5. To educate your children that they can choose to be male or female at will.
6. They are straight yet they lifted the LGB community for their personal cover and gain.
7. They will rule over the gay community whether you like it or not
8. You will allow naked males to enter women’s community showers.
9. You will allow them to enter women’s locker and dressing rooms.
10. You will allow men to play on and accept sports awards meant only for biological women.
11. You will allow them to brutalized bio women in many forms bc men are real women.
12. They will try their best convince the weak that one can trans one sex for the other though impossible.
The rational mind thinks these people are bat shit crazy.
Are trans supporters even slightly aware of just what damaging and insane rights you’re supporting?
decrans
No. They’re not. Look at Dickvaney, Abcrabs and the usual merry band of Queerty idiots. In different circumstances, they would put raccoon carcasses on their heads and storm the Capitol. Facts.
monty clift
Gay men understand perfectly well that straight women (aka trans “men”) who fetishize gay men and gay male culture can never be us or be a part of us. The fact that these women think we are oppressing them because we recognize they are women is a ludicrous form of homophobia. Thank God for groups like LGB Alliance. We are seeing more gay and lesbian people speaking out against this BS than ever before. The tide is turning.
LeBlevsez
monty clift –
The LGB Alliance renounced marriage equality because it also allows Trans people to marry. Can’t have Trans people enjoying equality, so no equality for Ls or Gs or Bs either. (Funny how bigotry is contagious.) After they got called out for their stupidity, they issued a pro-forma whoopsie, yet continued arguing for the dissolution of marriage equality, ‘cuz, you know, Trans.
The LGB Alliance has also allied themselves with groups that not only want to repeal marriage equality, they have allied themselves with groups that want to criminalize everything L G and B.
And Qs? Burn ‘em!
What else have you been thanking God for lately?
And by the by: The tide isn’t turning. It just seems like that to you because you’re spinning.
monty clift
Trans are already dissolving gay and lesbian rights and identities, so cry me a river with your “whataboutism.” I’m very aware that the LGB Alliance isn’t a faultless organization and some of its leaders are questionable; however, it sets a precedent that LGB people can and will organize for themselves (just as we have done for decades) and that we can be free from the trans community and its bigotry.
Trans are not the end all be all of gay people. We owe you nothing.
S.anderson
When will queerty do an article on the brave fight of the trans people to get the medical community to provide Life-Saving Affirmation Surgeries(TM) for the rest of the 74+ genders? It’s baffling why they only provide two types! There should at least be Nonbinary Affirmation Surgery by now, right?
lol
inbama
Yes.
People who call themselves non-binary can elect to have “Gender Nullification Surgery” – Nullo, or Eunuch procedures involve removing all external genitalia to create a smooth transition from the abdomen to the groin.
If they prefer, nonbinary persons can go the other way and have a phall or vaginoplasty done without removing the organs of their sex assigned at birth, so they can present as both intact male and female.
S.anderson
ohgreat.gif
IrreverentHomo69
It’s wild that a gay site has gay men debating about whether gay men are sexually interested in people with vulvas. Some of you have really lost the plot.
Openminded
So true. The straight community is defeating us without firing a single shot. I try to stay neutral on the trans issue as I’m not too well informed on the background. I do know that there seems to be a direct correlation between the rise in Trans activism and the rise in anti-gay laws. General society has definitely lumped all of the rainbow group under the same umbrella and turned against us all now that so many cross gender folks are demanding public exposure. Maybe someone needs to tell the trans community that this isn’t a socialist club and that they need to pull their own weight without pulling down the rest of the group.
monty clift
Trans and their chasers have been infesting this site for quite some time now. It’s already happened on other gay sites where they pretend to be gay men and act like we all support their garbage views. It doesn’t help that Queerty has been pushing the narrative as well every time they release pictures of deboobed women and expect us to find it attractive.
inbama
@Openminded
There was never any conflict between transsexuals and gays and lesbians.
It was early this century, after Marriage Equality was won, that powerful moneyed heterosexual transvestites, who had never been part of the movement, hijacked it – along with the ACLU. Athletes, military men, influential economists, husbands and fathers – these heterosexual males are not effeminate like the homosexual m2fs. The few brain studies that control for sexual orientation show they do not have brain atypicality in the gender region as homosexual trans and just ordinary homosexuals do, but in the area of body dysmorphia. It was for these heterosexual males – often conservative gay-hating Republicans – that the “Woman with Penis” was invented so they could claim to be actual women without surgery. This is the source of all our current political problems. It led immediately to the persecution of lesbians (who mostly want nothing to do with their “ladydicks”) and now puts us in conflict with the vast majority of Americans who don’t want to see women’s sports destroyed and intact male-bodied rapists serving time in women’s prisons.
Openminded
So maybe we need restrooms labeled as “People with Penis’ Only ” and “People with Vaginas Only”. We can also stop calling sports “Mens sports” and “Women’s sports” and start calling them “Penis Sports” and “Vagina Sports”. I’m betting the hetero population would be on board with this solution. Problem solved.
S.anderson
I don’t see why sports can’t be divided by weight class and experience levels regardless of the athlete’s sex or gender-identity. But then certain big-feeted dames start stamping their feet and this is why we can’t have nice things.
winemaker
There are many in the gay community that don’t agree with transgenderism or transexualism for many reasons I won’t go into here. For the most part, they keep this to themselves to avoid being ostracized and shunned. That said this doesn’t make them transphobic or anti trans. Just because someone is gay, that doesn’t mean they have to agree or go along with everything the gay community does or advocates. One is either born a biological male or female and no amount of behavoir therapy, drugs, hormone replacement or surgery will change this as this is a medical fact. You might dress as the opposite sex and live as the opposite sex but down deep you’re biologically male or female, not the oposite, Many of us are tired of having this issue rammed down our throats and feel those of legal age who want to do this to themselves, ( go through expensive therapy, hormone replacement and ultimately surgical gender reassignment ) allow them to proceed but let them pay for this out of their own pockets, not foist the bill on the taxpayers, many of whom feel this is medically unnecessary and some consider this an abomination on religious grounds. Please no anti religious comments on this posting. What grown adults do with their own bodies that affects them only is their business and need to live with the consequences of their decisions, especially something like this that’s permanent and irreversible.
Diplomat
If the truth be known:
Fact: LGB people fought hard and earned their rights.
Fact: T people are fighting viciously hard to take away everyone’s rights.
Happy New Year!!!
Diplomat
If the truth be known:
Fact: LGB people fought hard and earned their rights.
Fact: T people fight viciously hard to remove everyone’s rights.
Let’s hope we can all figure out a better plan in the new year.
Happy New Year