Every great success carries with it a touch of sorrow, and that’s turning out to be the case with marriage equality. In the wake of the Supreme Court ruling granting us the right to marry, a number of long-time activists are fretting that we are at risk of losing the things that make us unique.
“What do gay men have in common when they don’t have oppression?” Andrew Sullivan wondered to The New York Times. “I don’t know the answer to that yet.”
“People are missing a sense of community, a sense of sharing,” Eric Marcus, the author of “Making Gay History,” told the paper. “There is something wonderful about being part of an oppressed community.”
It’s not by accident that a lot of the wistfulness is emanating from people of a certain age, who experienced the AIDS crisis, ACT UP, Queer Nation, and the Defense of Marriage Act. The causes of the 1980s and 1990s energized an entire generation of lesbians and gay men.
With the marriage ruling, it seems like the final chapter is being written. Yes, there are still battles to be fought, as Michelangelo Signorile has pointed out. We are still lacking federal anti-discrimination protections, meaning that we can get married but also fired legally. In fact, we can get fired because we got married, a trend we will likely see soon. The religious right will amp up it’s argument that our very presence erodes their faith-based right to discriminate in all things. The antigay GOP is not likely to pass civil rights legislation anytime soon. And the rest of the world, with the exception of Europe, is still decades if not centuries behind where we are. With the international reach of social media, it’s easy to see American activists working to help outcasts everywhere.
But Justice Anthony Kennedy’s opinion makes it clear once and for all that we are equal members of society. There’s no turning back from that.
The question that’s bothering some veterans is, after building a movement and culture on being different, what will it mean to be just like everyone else? Outside of the bedroom, will being gay become more like an ethnic identity?
It already has for some people. “I’m kind of sexually gay but ethnically straight,” star statistician Nate Silver has said.
We’re a long way from pride parades becoming the equivalent of a St. Patrick’s Day parade (with better abs), where people are only remotely connected to their background. Being gay will always mean being different–just not as different. For all the people who have suffered and been damaged for that reason, starting with the kids who have been bullied to the point of suicide, the end of oppression can’t start soon enough.
What we’re also witnessing is that the culture is much more diverse than we’ve been ready to admit. It’s easy to put aside your differences when you’re united around a single cause, like fighting the AIDS crisis. But now that we don’t have that focus, we’re discovering that there are a lot of people in our community who are quite content to live quiet lives that look like everyone else’s–raising kids, caring for elderly parents, living in the (gasp) ‘burbs, working in office cubicles. And that’s not a bad thing.
In fact, that’s the point of equality. But it comes with its own set of responsibilities.
There is a danger that people who are really different will be marginalized, and that would be a betrayal of the cause. It would be a Pyrrhic victory if we forget about sexual liberation, about queer identities, and about the struggle for transgender equality. Shame on us if we botch the opportunity to help non-gay people see the beauty of living true to yourself, social pressures be damned.
Having the freedom to live as we want has been the fight for decades. That fight gave meaning to a lot of people’s lives. Seeing that chapter come to a close is a bittersweet moment. But as anyone who has lived through that time should be able to tell you, these are the good old days.
Anthony Bryan Hilton
Nope. We will always be seen as the “red headed step child”
Thorsten Kerp
It will change. But that’s the point about identity, it’s never fixed. Also, besides the things mentioned in the article, the US are not the world. There are still people being attacked, (“legally”) imprisoned and killed around thr world. This is not the time to lean back and enjoy “our” (no marriage equality in my country btw) heteronomalised life. There is still a global community that needs our fighting spirit!
Paul Tidd
No.
Dan Steele
I’d appreciate having true equality, including protection of all rights. SCOTUS gave us a tremendous boost 🙂
Patrick T. Phillips
no, it will not disappear; silly question.
Glücklich
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/27/us/scotus-same-sex-marriage-gay-culture.html?smid=go-share
Realitycheck
So much has changed in just few decades, and sadly, things can turn back,nothing is forever,
just look at that Russian Idiot Putin, moving the clock back.
That said, using NYC as an example, it is surprising to see mixed bars, straight and gays having fun and picking up together, bit confusing but, that is the future………..
etseq
WTF are “queer identities”? Furries? Otherkins? Fetishists? “Queer” has always been the enemy of equality so fuck the queers and their anarchist politics. As far as sexual liberation, again what exactly does that mean? Since the sodomy laws were struck down, pretty much any type of sex between consenting adults is legal so who needs liberating from what? Usually sexual liberation really is code for a certain rose colored nostalgia for one strain of pre-AIDS era gay male sexual culture that flourished in urban areas where anonymous sex with multiple partners was privileged above any emotional attachments or romantic relationships. That was all well and good for those few blessed with young and beauty but it had many downsides that get brushed under the rug.
Harold Powell
Only if straight identity disappears as well
Dev.C
Hell no, just because Straight people can accept us doesn’t mean they truly identify with what it’s like to be us. Black identity didn’t disappear after civil rights happened, it may have become more palatable for other races but it never went away because of legalized equality. I along with plenty of gay men i’ve talked to are annoyed by the number of straight people who are kinda taking over the Castro in San Francisco, but it’s unclear if being in our gayborhood is merely a fad for them or if they truly want to be integrated in our gogo boy and diva anthems nightlife.
It is a little annoying to go into a gay sports bar like hi-tops and be greeted by obnoxious straight guys who don’t realize they are in a gay bar.
Hawg G Wilde
Probably…hope Yall are happy!!! I’d rather be the fringe on the pillow
Will Glitzern
I’m one of the ‘burbs dwelling office workers. My partner and I have lived together a long time, but other than that I often feel like a minority within a minority. And there are still a lot of RWNJ’s who think ALL of us are pure evil.
Ali Cabulong
I’m a person.
Henry Benavidez
No because the fight is just beginning with all these right to refuse laws coming our way.
DimAsAnEmber
Why would it do that? Gay is still an identity, and will be long into the future when it’s perhaps only there as an identifier. Now that we have most of the rights that are afforded to the rest of the country, we’re allowed to settle a bit. And there’s nothing I want more than to live in the suburbs with a comfortable job and a husband.
Damon Robbins
Living in Suburban Connecticut my partner and I fly the Pride Flag by our front door.We are respected by our neighbors and have mostly straight friends.Life is good for us!
Joseph Natos
Also rest of the world except CANADA and Europe. Thank you.
Mark Pointon
No? That’s the dumbest thing i’ve heard all day
Michael Haynes
No Gay Ident will not disappear,
Ladbrook
I’m still mourning the loss of bar culture in the age of Grndr, so I haven’t even started thinking about what marriage equality will do, if anything.
But let’s look at it this way: Ending Jim Crow and outlawing the bans on interracial marriage and school segregation did not end “black culture.” American has always been a big salad bowl of different communities and cultures… and it will continue to be. If “gay culture” dies (assuming we can even define what that term means) then it will be because the gay community chose to kill it, not because of some outside force.
Charles I. Mumford
Only a fool would thinks so. This is just a temporary situation; it’s way far from over.
William C. Searcy
Gay identity disappear? Bitch, have you ever met me?
GG
“Will Gay Identity Really Disappear Now That We Have Marriage Equality?”
Yes and No. Part of what made (makes) us who we are is the struggle. When the struggle changes (ramps up, diminishes, abates, etc.) so do we. There is also a ‘chicken and egg’ component here. Are we creative, generally speaking, because we’re gay, or are we creative because it was one of the few societal outlets available to us?
Analogy: There was a time when American immigrants of certain nationalities were spat upon, called vulgar names, discriminated against and thought to be ‘less than.’ Nowadays, they are simply a part of the American tapestry. While this is an overall improvement, the price paid was the dilution of their identity. No one asks anymore about one’s nationality for hiring, housing, etc. If our next step is to fight against discrimination in jobs, housing, etc. nationwide, we should be prepared for the consequences.
However, the answer is ‘no’ when one considers our unique identifier. No matter what else changes, we will still be of a certain sexual orientation. That part of our identity won’t be changing.
Scott Thompson commented on this a couple of years ago:
http://www.fagburn.com/2013/05/scott-thompson-good-bad-old-days.html
William Mc Gregor
Did that happen when African American and Caucasians won the right to marry?
Aubrey Graumann
“What do gay men have in common if they don’t have oppression?” Well, two things. 1: We’re still being oppressed all over the world. And not just gay men, but people from all sides of the LGBTQIA+ circles. We’ve had a small victory, but we still have a long fight ahead. 2: Identity never vanishes. When the slaves were freed, all black people still identify as black. Why? Because identity doesn’t have roots in oppression. Oppression may affect identity, but at the end of the day it’s who you are inside that forms your identity. And if you’re gay, congratulations. You have a gay identity. Nothing is going to change that.
level75RDM
@Thorsten Kerp: Pretty much. People always forget that, in many states, we can still be fired for being gay, parents are still abandoning their children for being gay, and people are still committing acts of violence against gay people for being gay. If nothing else, marriage equality only really helps one particular subset of people- couples that get married. Not nearly as impressive when, not only are less people getting married, but the average age of marriage is actually creeping upward.
Mainstreaming of gay identity shouldn’t even be a concern anymore. Calling the gays freaks and deviants no longer flies with the general public and, if anything, is a good way to get oneself scorned and out of a job. Instead, what ultra conservatives have done is framed their rhetoric such that gayness is antithetical to religion and worse, antithetical to patriotism. What happens when the opponents of equality manage to get the Muslims on board, for example (they don’t, for now, only because ultra conservatives have demonstrated themselves to be hostile towards Islam)? They’re already working on making the rainbow flag an opposition to the American flag.
And what exactly is wrong with becoming more like an ethnic identity? Is racism no longer a thing or something?
April Boucher
Probably not.
level75RDM
@GG: “There was a time when American immigrants of certain nationalities were spat upon, called vulgar names, discriminated against and thought to be ‘less than.’ Nowadays, they are simply a part of the American tapestry.”
Not from the vantage point of an immigrant.
Willyam Firth
Not likely
GG
@level75RDM: What???
Wilberforce
How myopic group think is. Marriage equality is only a chip in the flood. Enda is much more important. When we have that, and cultural acceptance across the South, then talk to me about loosing our identity. Anyway, much worse, digital cruising and bad taste in music is destroying disco culture, a lose that I’m crying about on a daily basis.
Bob Rimac
We have much more to change to become equal citizens, for example housing and employment non-discrimination, being able to donate blood and organs, and adoption, amongst other things. I am proud to display my gay identity.
Hank Trout
I’ve been out for 40+ years. Marrying my 14-yr partner next year will do NOTHING to change my gay identity.
Kenneth Fallows
Hell no! There is still much to be done for equality and acceptance. Most important is our not being fired and being able to choose where we live without homophobic discrimination!
Sean Christopher Hayes
Did black identity go away after the Civil Rights movement?
Gus Anderson
Nope. Nations which have actual freedom still have HUGE Pride Festivals, lgbt focused businesses and entertainment, and very solid “communities”.
Ashke113
Are you kidding me with this? Now some are complaining that we will lose our sense of “community” now that we’ve finally won this one battle. In all honesty there was never really any “community” while we were fight the marriage equality battle. The older generation were fighting to be recognized finally as any other married couple, the younger generation (not all just making a generalization don’t clutch your pearls) from what I’ve noticed around me wanted to do it just so they can say they did it and move on to the next party. Anyone can say that’s not true but we all know for the most part it is but no one will admit for fear of upsetting the gay community, which for some reason happens to be the rule of the land these days. Piss off the gays you get sued, piss off the gays you get boycotted, piss off the gays you can’t get your hair done or some stupid bullshit like that. Well I’m gay and not afraid to piss off anyone and I say we shoukd be content with the battle we just won stop being fuckin greedy bitches by demanding everything and being so militant about everything. The only “community” we have or show is that when someone says one wrong thing about us or doesn’t support us we all turn into a pack of rabid hissing cats start attacking them calling them names make personal attacks not only on them but their lifestyle their families everything that we tell them how we don’t like being treated. We want equality in all things then we have to show that we can be civil and not raging psycho fags………ok tangents and rant over let the accusations fly the claws come out and the hissing start
Rhoda Mackenzie
No. We are proud.
Will L
If anything, this ruling has made the haters even madder. It has also flushed out some not-so-tolerant friends. Some who I thought were allies were on Facebook “liking” those pictures of the White House in rainbow colors and the headline “If this makes you mad, what can we do now…” crap. If you don’t think I didn’t immediately find the “unfriend” function! Our battle has just begun. I’m re-evaluating my straight friends and some family as well.
AtticusBennett
@etseq:
sexual liberation is not just about legalities. we still have people trying to force celibacy on gay people. we still have gay people who actually literally believe that if they “act on” their homosexual desires, they’ll be “damned” because it’s a “sin”
there’s also the “oh, i’m not like THOSE GAYS who have SEX, i’m into MONOGAMY and MARRIAGE and behaving the way straight people pretend they do!” sexual liberation is about being free from a negative association to sexuality and its expressions.
will gay identity disappear?
not really. i strongly embrace both my gay identity AND my queer identity.
they’re not the same thing. i’m glad that those who want to marry can marry. i’m glad that we have the CHOICE to decide for ourselves.
i may never marry. it’ll be my choice. my queer identity and my gay identity are in no way threatened by the choices other gay people may make in life. i feel no pressure to marry, nor to have any form of relationship that would appeal to “someone else” – just me and my partner(s), thank you very much.
some gays will marry. some will co-habitate and NOT marry. other will embrace polyamory. couples can, and will, have their own rules and arrangements and lives.
I’ll always be Queer – different, not common, a deviation from the expected cultural norm. and that’s A-OK with me, and under no threat from LGBT people being embraced in society and being afforded the same rights, freedoms and graces as anyone else.
and it’s not just about legal battles – there are still kids being disowned by their families, shamed by bigoted religious groups, killing themselves, and living closeted lives.
we all need visibility – those who choose to marry, and those who choose NOT to.
because those choices are ours to make.
Brian K Combs
last I checked,
marriage did not define us.
Its about equality, we will never disappear if were equal.
Were defind by ourselves,what we do and what we accomplish.
G.A.Y.
growing to
accept
yourself is the 1st stwp in being gay.
level75RDM
@GG: America does not like immigrants. It never has and it never will. If anything, the fearmongers teach that immigrants are diluting American culture, not the other way around.
GG
@level75RDM: “America does not like immigrants.” Who are you referring to when you say “Americans”?
Charles R Morris
It should! We should want to be treated equal….not try and seperate ourselves from everyone….im Richie and i happen to be gay….im not Gay Richie. There is alot more to my identity than that!
Timothy Warner
GAY Identity will not disappear, it’s meant to be, as it always been.
level75RDM
@GG: People who are likely to be opponents of marriage equality. Everybody else is the choir, for whom the continued presence of minorities is not viewed as a threat.
My point is that, for all this meditation on whether or not gay identity will continue to be distinct, the comparison, that other minorities have assimilated, doesn’t ring true. There is always going to be somebody complaining about black people giving their children non-Anglican names. Or trying to paint middle easterners as flight risks. Or Latinos/Hispanics not speaking English. We, who live on the coasts, are so lucky to really live within diverse populations that we often lose sight that much of America isn’t really like that. Even white people from the coasts travel inland and are intimidated by how homogeneous the people are.
GG
@level75RDM: Ah. In that case, I see that you have entirely missed the point of my post.
badtungsten
Gays have suddenly started living in the suburbs with office jobs? Where have you been? I’ve been out and proud for almost 20 years doing exactly that.
Wallace Ostrander
No
onthemark
I figured you’d drag that weasel Andrew Sullivan into this, but Nate Silver?: “’I’m kind of sexually gay but ethnically straight,’ star statistician Nate Silver has said.”
Ugh, what a horrible thing to say.
Giancarlo85
Gay identity is much more than just same sex marriage. Gay identity exists because of left wing and far left wing politics. Same sex marriage isn’t going to solve all of the problems. More left wing politics will in countering the extreme corruption of the right wing and the LCR sell-outs. America needs real leftists in not just pushing the identity of the LGBTQQI community, but also class politics. It’s time for the working class to stand up and demand more recognition themselves.
Leftists have been responsible for LGBTQQI advancements and class based politics. The people of Greece stood up today and said enough is enough of the extreme corruption, and now it is time for the people of America to do the same.
@level75RDM: Some idiots in this country have never liked immigrants. It was the same hatred demonstrated towards the Italians, the Irish, the Chinese… and the same disparaging attitude. This entire country was built on immigration and some need to learn how to accept that fact.
Thomas M Schnyder
Actually not until sexual orientation and gender identity are protected from discrimination at the federal level. It is absolutely disgraceful that you can be fired in 29 states for being gay.
Bob LaBlah
@Giancarlo85: I am sure FARC would be proud of your comment. No wonder your fascinated with that loser hillbilly out of Snuffysmithville, Ark.
Giancarlo85
@Bob LaBlah: You have no clue what you’re talking about. The FARC are scum and lost any resemblance of a message they had decades ago when they engaged in kidnappings and the drug trade. You’re a total idiot.
Jessica Naomi Weiss
What does that even mean? Do you think we all “act” Str8 now? That’s what we did before marriage equality.
Adrian Lehman-Sizemore
i got married yesterday and feel more gay than ever
Jamal Gregory Baghdadi
No. Because people will always be against gay marriage. Just like people will always be against interracial marriage, and against African Americans.
Chris
We will change and how we see ourselves will change with it, the same as the world has changed over the past hundreds of years. Of course our identity as gay (or queer) will change and inclusive marriage will be part of that change.
But will our identity disappear? No more than the identities of large ethnic groups that number into the millions have disappeared over time within their respective nations.
NJjoe
Simply No. There are still be battles to be fought and as poster Anthony Bryan Hilton put it, “the red headed stepchild.” We will still have to keep looking over our shoulders mentally and physically. As we have finally won the Marriage Equality, we still will not be accepted. Though we are heading in the right direction with M.E., we still have a long way to go with issues – People are still going hate no matter what. We have won a major victory, however, we still have a long way to go in many matters.
Janus Ourma
Beware of homonormalization! Stay different, remain a rebel, Queer your life.
AndYouWillDeal
It seems so, because in recent years gay culture has become so PC that all the subversiveness that fueled queer culture and its creativity have been replaced by an urge to have babies, to parade them around as ultimate symbol of “normalcy”, like they are not little human beings but the must-have fashion accessory.
Dennis Patrick Ellis
do not identify me as gay. I am a human whom loves humans. I am 2 spirited *
alexmokum
As long as I have to look around me before kissing my husband (25 years this year) at the bus stop, train station or airport let alone on the street, the fight for equality, the fight for the right to be who I am will continue, no matter legal age or legal marriage. Hate crime (incl bullying) needs to be erased from society before we all can live our own lives in freedom.
Giancarlo85
@AndYouWillDeal: What the heck are you talking about? If a couple wants to adopt and have a family, do you have a problem with that?
meghanada
There are many countries where gay marriage has been legal for years. So there are plenty of case studies to serve as basis for an answer to the question. Why not take a look at them and spare us the boring, substance-free speculation about the future?
Stefano
So because gays in the USA now have marriage equality this is the end of the story? Seriously? You really think that you are the center of the Universe…**eye-rolling** It is like in the 90’s after the fall of the Berlin Wall, most people claims that It was the end of History…yeah r-i-i-i-ght !
AndYouWillDeal
@Giancarlo85: Men do not have the biological clock ticking to have babies as women do, adopting or seeking to have children to have a family is simply hetero-normative behavior, it’s what gays do because they think that will make them normal, make them belong, I think it only makes them more pathetic. The heterosexual world is boring, why would anyone want to marry and have kids if you don’t have the expectation of that? But now we do, with homo normalization we are expected to live a similar boring life.
Giancarlo85
@AndYouWillDeal: You just don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. If two people of the same sex want to adopt why is it your right to question them? It has nothing to do with trying to be “normal”. You’re just another troll. A dime in a fucking dozen. And you have nothing insightful or logical to say.