Are straight guys “the holy grail” of hookups for gay men? Why should they be so lust-worthy? These are the questions rolling around in the mind of one gay Redditor who says he doesn’t understand the fixation.
“Post after post here and on gay meme pages/songs/etc all I hear is fantasies about hooking up with straight guys,” he wrote. “My gay friends IRL always talk about hooking up with straight guys as the holy grail, and straight-acting bisexual guys as the next best thing.”
“Am I the only one who isn’t turned on by this at all?” he asked his fellow r/askgaybros Reddit users. “I can’t imagine being with a guy like this. I want someone to be into my body, my hard d*ck, my beard, my deep voice, my masculine energy… just everything.”
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One user responded: “I always say, you can be attracted to a straight guy. Because he’s a guy. But if him being straight is what’s attracting you, just don’t. Never saw the attraction honestly. Is it because it’s supposedly not their( the straight guy) thing but they let them?”
Another Redditor offered a theory: “I don’t think it’s, ‘Wow, I want to f*ck around with someone who has no interest in me and can’t get it up’ but rather the extremely unlikely fantasy of ‘He will take one look at my incredible manliness, realize what he’s been missing all his life, and turn into the most insane cock worshipper ever.’”
The conversation also touched a nerve for a Reddit user who pointed out the femmephobia in the gay population. “I think part of what isn’t clicking for you is because you’re a masculine top dude,” he told the original poster. “Like you said, you are looking for someone who will be wholeheartedly attracted to your masculine manly qualities, which gay men can happily fulfill for you.”
Related: Is it time to ditch ‘masc’ and ‘femme’ labels once and for all?
“For femme bottoms, we are less likely to get much attention or interest from masculine gay men (of which there are few to begin with),” the commenter continued. “Gay men like men. Muscles. Beards. Deep gruff voices. I don’t have those qualities. There are some gay men who are masculine and attracted to feminine guys, but it is a minority within a minority within a minority.
“Straight men are attracted to femininity. Soft features, feminine voice and mannerisms, submissive personalities. I have all of those qualities. Just like you want to be loved and embraced and lusted after for your authentic masculine self, I want to feel lusted after for my authentic feminine self. However, when the majority of gay men picture their dream guy, it is a sexy bearded lumberjack that does not look anything like me.
“Thus, I usually end up hooking up with bisexual men that look and behave like heterosexual men. They offer me everything I’m attracted to, and they are genuinely attracted to my femininity and don’t have to begrudgingly look past it. I can be myself, and someone I find sexy will find me sexy.”
Moral of the story? If we can’t dismantle the gay population’s masc4masc bias, we probably shouldn’t begrudge others their femme4masc desires.
rikard_pearson
most of us identify our attractions at young ages when we see things in simplistic terms. most of us develop nuanced attractions, but like my less intelligent uncles that still call be my baby nickname, some don’t take the time to use our words.
DerrickAnderson1433
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GymMan456
I am gay because i just love other men. When i meet other gays, i am turned off by their social constructs, which to me seem feminine but mostly artificial. Its like having a blank where other people have voice or hair or other traits. Yes i probably will get more nuanced if i started to get attracted to females or feminine shrieks, but i simply don’t .
Donston
The spectrum is too wide and diverse to make those type of basic connections. There are quite a few inherently homosexual guys who are more into overtly “queer” and effeminate males. And there are dudes who are into chicks to whatever degree and are more drawn to masculine men or men they perceive to be “more straight”. While there are effeminate males who date one another. It’s definitely not as simple as: “I’m homosexual. Therefore, I’m into masculinity. Therefore, I want to hook up with ‘straight’ guys”.
Donston
This is as persistent as it is primarily because of homophobia and hetero-normal expectations. “Gay” is simply not valued. Even many gay-identifying people and “liberals” see “gay” as sad, tragic, limited or even closed-minded or de-humanizing. Hooking up, dating, relationships are driven by ego as much as anything else. Pulling a “straight guy” or getting a dude to come out of the closet to be with you- this offers validation and an ego boost for many guys. Furthermore, you have the development of things like internalized homophobia, effemiphobia, internalized effemiphobia, and inferiority complexes. There are other things that can trigger it like having some inherent bisexuality but not really being into sex with women or not having legit and sustained romantic fulfillment towards women. So, being with “straight guys” allows you to connect to the hetero parts of yourself without really having to regularly deal with females. You can be turned by straight sex but not be into women at all. That might as well help lead to an obsession with “straight guys”. You can have certain paraphilias/kinks that you can only fulfill with a guy you feel is “straight” or “somewhat straight”. Sometimes it’s about needing a non gay-identifying guy to validate the dimensions in your sense of gender. All of this also creates an environment where many “gays” feel the need to either be more overtly masculine or fem than what they naturally are.
So, this is a more nuanced and diverse issue than what many give it credit for. And it’s one of the reasons why when I’m forced to latch on to a “label” I tend to go with “gay pan-sexual” or “overall homo-leaning queer”. I got really tired of both the “bi” and “straight passing” worship and resentment.
thisisnotreal
@donston pretty sure I asked this before but If I did I don’t remember your answer. As someone who could potentially be with men and women both how come you’ve never used the label bisexual? I remember posts where you’ve talked about all of the hate and trash that the bisexual identity gets (and we definitely agree there) but then I’ve always been confused why so many people who technically fall into that spectrum are so quick to jump ship from that label cuz I feel like that in itself contributes to the ish that the bisexual identity gets. I mean yeah I get your more into men so you call yourself gay leaning (which that’s up to you but to me feels like one of those things society is expecting from us; to be hyper specific with where exactly on the Kinsey scale we fall to the decimal) but if your also into women wouldn’t that technically make you a bisexual still, albeit a more gay leaning bisexual? Idk just seems to me like a case where all of the bisexual identities baggage and issues won’t be solved by people jumping ship en masse instead of staying on the boat and working to solve those issues from within. Just my two cents anyway.
Donston
It’s just not something I place a lot of importance on. It’s not a part of my agenda. It’s very important to some but, just not I. Even when I was entirely inherently homosexual, I didn’t care if people saw me as “gay”. Throughout the years I’ve had friends and family refer to me as gay/bi/queer/fake-gay. I just don’t care. There is baggage with all of these identities. While the romantic, sexual, affection, relationship spectrum is too wide and diverse to expect identity to really equate to knowing someone’s orientation. The problem with “bisexual” in specific is often how impractical it is, and how it’s an identity many people (particularly males) feel forced to embrace because they’re not entirely hetero or homo. And I don’t think that’s fair. While too much of “bi pride” feels driven by internalized homophobia, gay shame, self-misandry, self-misogyny, an obsession with maintaining being viewed as “queer”. No matter what identity someone embraces (if they embrace identities at all) it shouldn’t be driven by sociological/political pressures or fear or shame or simply looking for something to latch on to in order to make things more convenient and make others more comfortable. Besides, identity obsession is more of an internet and social media thing. Most people in “real life” simply don’t care unless they’re homophobic or they’re looking to indulge straight/hetero-leaning/non-homo-leaning worship. But ultimately, I just don’t care about latching on to anything or what people call me. I live freely and completely honestly. A lot of younger people feel similar ways. And that’s something folks are gonna have to get comfortable with.
Donston
If some people can change as they get older, if around one-third of the population don’t really follow the identity rules, if we question everyone’s identity anyways and we don’t even have a consensus of what the identity rules are- then what purpose does identity obsession even serve? You can’t make people’s sense of self or identity about impersonal things like politics and census reports. All we can do at this point is try to make things easier for everyone and promote honesty, self-comfort and living the life you want to live. Anything beyond that is doing too much.
Chrisk
This is a juvenile hobby and most grow out of it. I too at one time went for straight guys but would never consider going through the sad mind games today. Mostly it’s just gay guys chasing closet cases or at best bisexuals.
Donston
The thing is many don’t grow out of it. And those are the ones who end up spending their whole lives alone, who end up constantly paying for hook-ups or bf’s, or end up settling down with a chick as they age because they can’t find a non gay-identifying dude to settle down with.
Chrisk
Yes Don I do agree with you. This could be said of the one’s obsessed with youth too. They’d rather be alone then meet someone appropriate. It’s like they never grew up. I think shame is at the core of it all though.
Brian
I have a friend like this. 50 years old, never has been in a real relationship. His thing is drunk, straight, white guys, almost exclusively. He used to weigh 400 lbs, has been in the low 200s for the past 15 years, but I think he’s still that fat guy in his mind. With straight guys he never has to worry about rejection. Obviously he gets rejected, but he doesn’t have to take it personally because they’re straight, that can always be the reason.
It’s sad, he definitely deserves better but I don’t see that ever happening.
controversial2019
There’s also the argument that people just ‘go after’ who they’re attracted to.
It’s not unusual for a heterosexual guy to go for a girl, be rebuffed, but keep trying his lucky.
Likewise, given the number of straight identifying men versus gay, it’s not surprising that gay men would be attracted to straight men; through no choice of their own. They see a man. Find him attractive. Then find out he’s straight.
Yes, at that point the gay guy could walk away, or (as it is everywhere in nature including mankind) the gay guy could keep trying to obtain the guy he fancies. And he may not be trying to get the gay guy BECAUSE he’s a straight or because it’s a challenge, but simply because he likes the guy, wants the guy, and isn’t discouraged by being rebuffed. Exactly the same way in which straight men will like a girl, want the girl, and won’t be discouraged by being rebuffed.
Donston
That doesn’t really reflect why the obsession with “straight” guys is so widespread and persistent and why it leads to many gay-identifying men spending their whole lives alone. Most “straight” dudes don’t look to strictly go after lesbian-identifying women. So, you’re analysis doesn’t really work.
Paco
I don’t understand the obsession with straight guys at all. My limited sexual encounters with “straight” guys were extremely awkward and largely consisted of them laying there and telling me I can do whatever I want to them while they tried hard to pretend I wasn’t really there. Thankfully, not very many “straight” guys have propositioned me for sex.
I rather have sex with guys that want me as badly as I want them.
TheMarc
“Moral of the story? If we can’t dismantle the gay population’s masc4masc bias, we probably shouldn’t begrudge others their femme4masc desires.” What?! That’s what the grand thesis of this whole article is?! Obviously, not. The Reddit comment that this article was based on is far deeper than that. And I’ve seen a number of comments that actually get it.
Straight guy attraction stems from a number of psychological circumstances. Not one of them is healthy is for the gay community. But it seems to written in the gay cultural DNA. If Shawn Mendes so much as drops a pencil and a camera catches it; there will be an article on this and every other gay media site lustily commenting on it. I should mention, a practice which the subject, Shawn Mendes, has vented quite a bit of frustration and irritation over. Is it wrong to point out a sexy guy, no matter their orientation? No, but the Shawn Mendes example is a testament to the fact that this has gone a little too far in the gay community. The James Charles backlash would be the other.
Personally, I agree with the original Reddit comment. I want a guy that wants me. Masc or femme does not matter. I want a male that is attracted to other males. period. I could go into all of the logistical and hygienic reasons why that is important; but if you’re gay, you should already know this. Instead, it’s simply not worth it and rarely equals a healthy outcome. I could write an entire article about homophobic straight men that use their attractiveness and “straight guy” allure to take advantage of the “gay dollar.” And don’t get me started on the “gay4pay” phenomenon. Bottom line, we have to get to a point where, as gay men, we celebrate the attractiveness and allure of other gay men, perhaps more so than obsessing and pining after straight men. There is a particular classic sports car that I love the look of; but does not come in automatic. So as much as I admire it, you will never find it in my garage. Because what would the point be?
Donston
A lot of homosexual, homo-leaning, homo-romantic, homo-affections, gay, whatever men don’t truly move beyond shame and resentment. They pretend to move on from things like internalized homophobia, gender expectations and hetero-normal pressures for the sake of practicality, staying sane and sociological ease. But they don’t truly make that evolution. They still ultimately feel that having unabashed same-sex passions, affections, romantic ambitions, relationship contentment equates to inferiority. They can’t truly look up to and respect and love a “gay man”. Wanting to only date/hook-up with “straight guys” or closeted guys alleviates some of that inferiority. And I hate to go in on identity dependence again. But society’s need for creating subsets and people’s tendencies to fetishize identity and behavior is another reason why this stuff is so persistent.
TheMarc
@Donston….agreed. Of course, all of your points are very strong. I feel that that gay media does enable and support this unhealthy behavior. Not just this site. From mainstream outlets to even our adult entertainment, the ideal of the “straight man” as superior or more desirable than a gay man is highly prevalent. Gay men of my age have always seen this as the norm; but I think for the mental health of today’s gay young men, a change is not only ideal; but necessary. Now I’m not blaming gay media entirely for the lack of evolution among gay media; but again, they’re a huge enabler.
I don’t follow any straight man even on Instagram if I am following them solely for their aesthetic value. But this site continues to promote (which equals $) “hot” straight guys thus encouraging their readers to similarly pursue these men. Compared to my gay “childhood,” we live in gay Golden Age. So many hot (masc and femme) gay men are all over social media, celebrity media, etc. Back in the olden times, it was understandable that the only hot universally known men were primarily straight. that is no longer the case, by a long shot; but gay media consistently promotes the “straight man” as the pinnacle of attractiveness and desirability. And with today’s increasing monetized sexuality, it is damaging to the gay community both mentally and financially.
wikidBSTN
I’m not attracted to straight men. In fact, I find it an immediate boner killer.
Josh447
I think there is one point that needs to be addressed for clarification purposes. Effeminate males are not in my opinion, entirely why gay men want to date straight men or straight-acting men. I think a more accurate term instead of effemiphobia, would be queenaphobia because bottom line is, the things that people call feminine traits in gay males, women simply don’t do. It’s not a match. Women don’t prance. Women don’t flip their hands around and act like they’re on stage as queen of the ball know it all. When they open their mouths a purse doesn’t fall out. So I think it’s actually an attack on women when you call these gay men who are simply excessively gay, effeminate.
They are constantly auditioning to play the Auntie Mame effect. They aren’t like women at all, it’s an entirely different language. They are not effeminate, they are queenie. And I think that’s what a lot of gay guys do not like, hence they look for the opposite in straight acting men. Who can blame them? Who wants to go to bed with an aggressively accentuated queenie extrovert? Maybe some do, but not if you’re into male traits.
Now love breaks all boundaries so that too could use addressing. But in general for dating, that’s usually not applicable. However, how you conduct and express yourself, how you come off to people is very important. And I believe it’s wise to take that into consideration.
Aires the Ram
@Josh: You’re exactly right, thanks for that post. Check out my post on further down, my thoughts go along the same lines, just with a bit of a different take on the matter.
hithere2
I was dating a guy a few years back that I really liked – after a few dates and my expectations raised that this was “going somewhere,” I told him I liked him. I was immediately rejected because he was only into straight men who would not (of course) return any affection – he got off on the self-deluded torture this would give him and was in therapy to work through these issues. I was dumbfounded. Suffice it to say that was the end of that.
Aires the Ram
I have always believed that the making of a ‘third sex’, or a ‘sub-group’ of homosexual men, differentiating them from the general population of men, has been a century-long disservice to homosexual men. For a century or more now, they weren’t considered ‘real men’, with nothing different really, than being on the other side of the Kinsey Scale to some degree or another.
From a writer I respect, J. Donovan, I quote the following, which has been my feeling for 40 years:
“I am not gay, and while I do experience a sense of camaraderie with some gay men who identify as gay, I reject membership in what is known as the ‘gay community’ –which today seems to include almost anyone who doesn’t have husband-on-wife sex in the missionary position with the lights out. I am not gay because the word ‘gay” connotes so much more than same sex desire. The word ‘gay’ describes a whole cultural and political movement that promotes anti-male feminism, victim mentality, and leftist politics. As a man, why would I treat men as oppressors and masculinity as a universal evil? Why must I constantly think of myself as a struggling minority when I’m doing fine? And what does socialism have to do with who I think is hot?”
I agree with this, I think gay guys fascination with straight guys is quite simply (and how Donston has so eloquently eluded to), a hunger by homosexual men to be accepted as a man, no more, no less.
Josh447
I like this and I very much agree. With the current state of lgbtqrstuv affairs with chopping up every little bit and piece of what people feel think and how they act into categories, I’m sure we’re going to see a lot of men who like men jumping ship from the “gay” lgbtq labled community that is so well yet tediously overdressed. When LGB lost its uniform solid meaning of sexual orientation only by adding things other than sexual orientation, that’s where things started slipping off the rails. There are so many PR gaffes in the sexual minority it’s no wonder some guys want to at least touch a straight guy and maybe feel normal if but for a minute.
When you can’t see the forest for the trees it’s time to aquire a higher perspective. As Judge Judy says, “keep it simple stupid”.
I like to think of it like this: If you’re a class act, one doesn’t share the stage with just everybody.