The 20-14 vote essentially kills all hope of marriage equality coming to New Jersey. The State Assembly has no reason to take up its own bill now, and with Chris Christie taking over the governor’s seat, Jersey has four years to sit this one out. Unless, of course, Lambda Legal and Garden State Equality succeed in their just-announced (but long-planned) decision to head back to court.
And why don’t those votes add up to the total number of senators? Because there were abstentions. Including, unbelievably, Senate President Stephen Sweeney, who argued the bill was destined for defeat anyhow, so why go on record whether he’s pro-discrimination?
EARLIER: Michael Doherty and the Bigoted New Jersey Senators Who Want to Keep Marriage Discrimination Legal
trickstertara
And the good news keeps on coming…
Brian NJ
I hope the gay people in the districts with legislators who voted no have the good sense to turn them out of office. They have not really felt the gay vote, because we always voted for Democrats in the past. This time will be different.
And how about that asshole Kean who bragged about all of the contributions of gay people to his county! What a fucking nerve. If I meet one gay person in Ocean Grove or Asbury who voted for him I am going to take him for a little dip.
Michael Letterman
Another WIN.
New York WIN, New Jersey WIN, NEXT…… we’ll keep that secret for now.
Juan
michael letterman why are your reading this blog? somebody’s in denial…
Michael Letterman
Juan: I read it for many reasons not the least of which is to relish victories such as this one
AndrewW
Of course we lost again. WHEN will we learn?
Now, the angry calls will go out to change the Pols – elect new people, more Democrats, etc., etc., BUT the same thing will happen until we do the real work – changing the minds of the people.
It’s the Polls, not the Pols.
Politicians are whores and they care mostly about their own survival. If we change – or demonstrate a changed public opinion – politicians will fall in line. That’s the only way to actually win.
There is no “political solution” for our equality. No amount of money, lobbyists or eloquent promise-makers will create our equality. We need to do it. We need to enroll our fellow citizens and move the polls. Until we get our friends, neighbors, associates and strangers to join us, we will continue to lose.
As a “movement” we do almost nothing in that regard. We always expect “someone else” or some politician or some organization to do it for us – 50 years is enough history to see that will NEVER happen. We must create our equality.
We need a real movement. Let’s hope this is the year.
Brian NJ
AndrewW
I was surprised at how passionate the supporters of marriage equality were in their speeches. I was very proud at how well the speakers understood their role, and the nature of America.
Everyone should see that debate, and how small and un-American they made the opponents seem. It was remarkable in many ways.
The supporters of the constitution were really amazing, and deserve a little praise.
Chance
Yes Brian, but it was so easy to see where our supporters miss the boat. When Senate President Codey spoke, the misguided push was comical.
To paraphrase: This issue boils down to a single word. That’s it. Just one word. And that word? Well that single word is “marriage.” [3 seconds later] But there’s another word here, and that word is “equality.”
I could write that in a play, and people would call it absurdism.
It’s simple – either we’re equal or we’re not. But we go and make it complicated. You want to make our opponents seem small and un-American? Don’t make them bigots. Don’t make them religious sheep. Don’t make them craven politicians only looking to the next election.
They are anti-equality. That’s it.
I’ll praise our supporters, not because they were in any way effective, but only because they were well-intentioned.
PopSnap
Im shocked. not.
Let’s take this to court and fight for our rights. Enough of people voting on them. I dont give two shits what a bunch of bible-thumping backwards rednecks have to say about my life; I’d just like to get married someday.
Ind
Brian NJ
By any chance, do you have a link of the speeches being posted somewhere? (youtube?)
Brian NJ
No, I think they will be posted. Black Senator Nia Gill will bring you to tears. What an amazing lawyer and legislator. She pointed out how civil unions can’t be fixed because insurance policies are written specifically to carve out same sex couples who may have civil unions but are not “married.” And that is with a civil unions law in place. Here are the Democrats who voted against marriage equality:
Sen. Jeff Van Drew (D-Cape May)
Sen. Ronald L. Rice (D- Essex)
Sen. John A. Girgenti (D-Passaic
Sen. Nicholas Sacco (D-Hudson) .
Sen. Fred H. Madden (D-Gloucester)
Sen. Shirley K. Turner (D-Mercer)
Here are the democrats who abstained:
Sen. Paul A. Sarlo (D-Bergen)
Sen. Stephen M. Sweeney (D-Gloucester)
Sen. James Beach (D-Camden)
At election time, you know what to do — vote for the republican out of spite and to get a fresh democrat with a real commitment in next time. Don’t worry, it can’t get any worse, and it will really shape the vote of the next Democrat or independent who may get in.
christopher di spirito
So much for the tired meme of New York and New Jersey being the bluest of blue states with open arms to gay and lesbian residents.
Well, that fat ass Maggie Gallagher won’t have to buy a ticket for Newark now.
Chance
Brian, really. You won’t get democrats with ‘real commitment’ in relatively conservative districts, until you change the voters. I know every vote is important, but you’re over-estimating yours. That is… if you live in a relatively conservative district.
Chance
And Christopher, I think most airlines would make her buy two tickets.
christopher di spirito
And Chance, make her fly in a cage in luggage.
Chance
Oh, and Brian, here’s a thought – next senate elections aren’t until 2011. That’s plenty of time. So instead of throwing a hissy fit and voting for someone who doesn’t actually represent you, why not get working now to elect someone who does? One option is inherently negative and counter-productive. The other is full of hope and possibility. How do you actually want to do this?
Afraid that your ideal candidate wouldn’t be able to get elected in a conservative district? Well then, you better start talking to everybody you know and asking for their help.
AndrewW
@ Brian NJ:
Why do you refuse to accept responsibility for our equality? Why do you continue to insist that politicians will do it for you?
If you (and our entire dysfunctional “movement”)would wake up and realize that it matters what our neighbors, friends and associates think – we can make some real progress.
If you want to change politicians (or their votes) you need to change the polls. Time will change the polls eventually, but if you want equality sooner – you’ll have to enroll supporters. The good news is two-thirds of Americans support equality – but we continue to ignore them while we obsess over politics.
Politics is false hope. Talking to your neighbors will do much more than any politician or lobbyist.
2010 could be the year we actually start a movement. One that can win.
Chance
Only if you give her a sedative, Christopher. I wouldn’t be able to stand hearing her howl for the whole flight.
Taylor Siluwé
@ no. 3 · Michael Letterman
No, the answer to why you read this blog is because you’re a HUGE dick (and not in a sexy way). And only a HUGE dick would bother to express his joy, here, at a time like this. But those who put huge dick evil vibes out into the universe get it back in spades.
I feel like I need a shower after that ….
But anyway, as a Jersey City native, I’m dismayed but not surprised. When Corzine lost, I knew some would cozy up to the lumbering incoming ‘Phobe-in-Chief. But we’ve had set backs before and eventually triumphed. We will also win with marriage equality. Why? Because its right and its fair.
However, the right thing often takes more time than it should. Let the ‘phobes have their giggles and their champagne, and may they choke on their hypocrisy.
Suck it up for the moment brethren, lets roll up our sleeves and move on to the next phase. Right will win in the end. It always does. It just takes a little time.
rf
“No, the answer to why you read this blog is because you’re a HUGE dick” – Actually, its because Michael Letterman is gay. Any real straight man would not give two cares about gay issues. Unless they were supporters recognizing the injustices we suffer or making money off them.
It’ll be the courts. like it always is.
Brian NJ
Chance:
You didn’t understand what happened in New Jersey. The no votes came from Democrats not because the voters in some of the districts were conservatives, it was because the LGBT has always been so supportive of the party the Senators in those districts believed the loss of the gay vote would not be a problem for them. There are huge numbers of gay people in those Democratic New Jersey districts, but their votes have become white noise to the party. Gays need to withdraw support from the Democratic Party, and stop the failed “letter-writing” strategy.
Remember, some of the Democrats that voted against the measure said they supported us. So WE are the problem, by not holding the Democratic Party accountable, and then following through with staying home or voting for other candidates.
Taylor Siluwé
No. 20 · rf — Of course you’re right, and a pathetically tortured gay at that. But he’s also a HUGE DICK. And worse, he knows it and doesn’t care.
@ No. 21 Brian — Yes, I noticed one in particular – RICE! I’m shocked and appalled.
Alexander
WHY are we letting the majority decide the rights of the minority? There would be hell to pay if christians decided the rights of the jews, if whites decided the rights of blacks, or if the able-bodied decided the rights of the handicapped!
Hell, all of those examples have come and gone, and NO ONE is seeing a comparison? The time to “hope we get the next one” is over.
KirilleXXI
No. 23 · Alexander
We all see it, don’t worry, and ever THEY see it, they just like to ignore it. The issue is controversial enough for them to say whatever they want.
Washington, DC, has some kind of Act in place that specifically says people can’t vote on issues of minorities. That’s why they just approved same-sex marriage — it was clear people won’t have a chance to stop it with those nonsense Propositions on election day. Litigations? Maybe… Maybe not… I just really, like REALLY don’t understand, why this Act forbidding voting on issues of minorities exists only in Washington, DC, and not on the federal level to make the whole country to stop voting on our rights?
AndrewW
@ Brian NJ:
If you got the majority of New Jersey voters to support equality, you wouldn’t need to worry about any politician, or their party or promises or lobbying or anything else.
My point is if you want to change the results in NJ (and America) we need to change our strategy. Forget the politicians, focus on the people. When we enroll them, the predictable politicians will do what they’re supposed to do – represent their constituents.
Lukas P.
Honest question: for those of us who don’t live in New Jersey, what would you reccommend we do—short of saying we won’t spend our vacations there or of threatening not to drive through the state on our way to somewhere less homophobic?
YellowRanger
And here I thought Jersey Shore was the lowest that state could sink…
gjr
I blame Corzine for this as much as anyone. Back in late spring/early summer, it was clear he was in serious jeopardy. The White House asked if it would not be wiser for him not to run. Polls showed former governor Cody beating Christy by a decent margin. But there was too much ego for Corzine to step aside. So now Christy. Oh and the other great part? Senator Lautenberg is like 84, so if he dies, Christy will appoint an anti-gay marriage senator to the seat. Just peachy.
Chance
Brian, if you really believe that the majorities in those counties are largely progressive, largely gay, and generally support equality and would help if asked… well then, what are you waiting for? For another election cycle to go by, voting for someone else who doesn’t support us? And then waiting for the democratic party to come to their senses and hand us a pro-equality candidate? Because that’s what you suggest.
You talk about accountability, and yet you’re still just waiting for some political power-that-is to respond to your demands and do what you want. If you want it, don’t ask political parties for it. Make it happen.
My understanding is that 2/3 of Americans would support equality if we got them engaged, made equality a priority. So let’s do that. Then we don’t have to vote for anti-equality jerks, right?
hyhybt
Why do abstentions count as ‘no’ votes?
Chance
They don’t, technically, but they don’t help you get to the 50%+1 threshold.
rf
@Andrew W – “Forget the politicians, focus on the people.” – You mean like back in 1967 when polls indicated that most people still favored banning interracial marriage?
It will be the courts, like it almost always is. Its iffy that any minority would win a vote put to the people, even today.
@Kirelle – I believe that the state referendas were not originally intended for voting on civil rights and can’t think of any instances where they were until the gays got to bat. But the google can tell you for sure. Likely it was a republican strategy to garner votes and money putting gay marriage to votes. And because no one really cares about gay people, its unlikely the referenda process will be changed until some other group gets affected or someone sues somehow.
Lukas P – this is still a very lgbt positive state. I live between Doherty and Christie our new gov, in the most repuglican part of this state and have absolutely no qualms about it. NJ sucks for so many other reasons.
hyhybt
#31: never mind, I misread the results… but is it really 50% +1 of the number of senators rather than the number of votes cast?
Brian NJ
Stop the letter-writing campaigns, stop the activism, start staying home from the polls, start voting for other candidates other than the Democrat. Stop giving money, stop calling. Gay person, you have done enough, and all that running around being active has hurt the cause. STOP.
Stop supporting the HRC, and start making your voice heard through your non-vote. Your activism has hurt the gay cause and ruined leverage — real leverage — not letters, or a donation or a speech, or a rally. All those traditional activities are over, and have emboldened the Democrats to keep you down.
Now is the time of stay-at-home civil disobedience. They will listen to that. Best would be to vote Republican, and throw your shoe in the Democratic Party machine, and throw out the party that has become a captor. You are only destroying what has become corrupt.
B
No. 20 · rf wrote, “Actually, its because Michael Letterman is gay.” … FYI on a different thread, http://www.queerty.com/is-obama-going-to-make-good-on-his-immigration-reform-promise-to-latino-voters-and-ignore-americas-gays-20091230/ No. 219, Letterman blurted out that he was trying to illicit an angry response so he can “cut and paste their own words into a lovely collection” (for his anti-gay group to use). He’s simply a sleazy troll trying to get others to generate material for his anti-gay campaign.
rf
People consumed with being anti-gay are gay. No two ways about it. Straight people who are secure in who they are either don’t care, care mildly, or support us.
Taylor Siluwé
@ 34 Brian NJ — What exactly is “stay-at-home civil disobedience”?
Not disagreeing, but requesting clarification.
I think this whole fighting this state by state, winning and losing it, yada yada yada, is growing tiresome. This has to be national thing, like the Civil Rights Act. There were lots of haters at the time, and they just had to suck it up.
That’s where I think our focus has to be. Otherwise, the win and lose again drama will continue to play out, because “the people” voting on OUR equality, OUR humanity is never gonna fly. “The People” are always historically out of step with the times.
We need an act from the top, and all the states will just have to suck it up.
B
No. 36 · rf wrote, “People consumed with being anti-gay are gay.”
… regardless of what you think about Letterman’s sexual orientation, the fact is that he’s posting his anti-gay rhetoric for purposes of eliciting a hostile response that he’ll then copy and paste into some anti-gay propaganda he’s trying to compile. Read No. 35 again and click on the link, then go to No 219.
Brian NJ
Taylor:
I think politicians that the LGBT support, have to have a healthy adversarial relationship with the LGBT community.
The cause would be helped if gay people made it clear that gays might not always be there to go to the polls. Three or four percentage points can change an election. If no gays voted for Obama, he may have lost. But the gay community has become too close to the democratic party, and now needs to turn the lights off, just as a demonstration of power, which we have at the polls.
Today, the Democrats put a baseball bat to the face of their gay supporters. If we do not respond with the withdrawal of support, it will make the problem worse. It has become a captive abuse situation with the Democratic Party and the gays, and a new tough strategy needs to be employed.
rf
38 – B – What’s your point? Why exactly couldn’t he post using a different name/email and from a different computer (if he’s really concerned about getting caught) and make up those same responses he wants to ellicit from others? Perhaps I am him. how do you know? doesn’t matter anyway. dude’s totally gay.
@brian – I think instead of staying home, the better way is to vote for independents at least to get their numbers up. Maybe vote for teaparty candidates they seem to do well. would be interesting to have some kind of plan devised for how you should vote based on your demographics. like i’m in a 310% republican area so my vote is likely completely useless. of course, gays and supporters vote for many more issues than gay ones but might help.
@taylor 37 — totally agree
Taylor Siluwé
@ Brian NJ –
I understand, but I’m not sure how pulling support from all dems would be of benefit. Wouldn’t that allow others into office who are even worse? I think we have to get past all this party politics when it comes to our basic rights as tax payers. We shouldn’t have to find just the right politician who cozies up to us to get elected, then gives us his/her ass to kiss after, only to have to start the bullshit game all over again.
Not when it comes to something which should go without saying. Our basic rights as adults who simple want to live the American Dream are being denied here, like we’re children, like we’re another species.
We need Federal action on this all too important matter. Then we can go back to politicians deciding whether they are gonna put a power plant in our neighborhood. But on this issue, we can no longer leave to fickle whims of people who just wanna make sure they can get elected again.
Not anymore. Republican, Democrat, fuck ’em both.
Brian NJ
I think you are right, taylor
B
No. 40 · rf “38 – B – What’s your point?” Isn’t it obvious? That you should be careful not to reply in a way that would help him with his anti-gay campaign.
He’s trying to anger people to the point where they spout a bunch of sexually explicit obscenities which he’ll then cut and paste and claim to be responses to something else. Look at the URL I provided. He’ll say something and then follow it with some personal comments or slurs. Then he’ll pretend the crude response he gets was for what preceded the slurs (which, of course, he’d delete). But don’t trust what I say – just look at the URL I provided and the comment number for where he blurted it out.
rf: “Perhaps I am him. how do you know?” Writing style.
scott ny'er
@ No. 43 · B
RF has a point. If he’s writing a book or whatever, why doesn’t he just create fake responses. He doesn’t need real responses. He certainly knows how to write and is creative with his sexual responses.
Either way… my suggestion has always been to ignore him.
rf
43 B – “Writing style.” – Not if i’m, I mean, he’s a genius
naghanenu
Gay Marriage needs to fought in the Supreme Court.
This state thing is old and boring. People do not support gay marriage that is clear. I propose that expansion for civil union and domestic partnership laws will help for now. Let people get used to the idea a bit and avoid leaving gay families in limbo until a real solution is found here.
B
No. 44 · scott ny’er wrote, “@ No. 43 · B RF has a point. If he’s writing a book or whatever, why doesn’t he just create fake responses.” … he said he’s cutting and pasting. Probably they want to claim that they are quoting from gay blogs and need something to point to if someone accuses them of lying.
Follow the link I provided and look at what he said.
No. 45 · rf 43 B – “Writing style.” – Not if i’m, I mean, he’s a genius ….. rest assured, he’s no genius.
Robert in CA
What?
“Gay Marriage needs to fought in the Supreme Court”
That will be the next rejection.
A clear lesson. The democrats always take the money and run. Lots of promises, but no delivery date.
Millions of dollars wasted, and who were the bright bulbs who followed the legislator to his daughters school and harangued him.
That was helpful, now wasn’t it. It made national air time showing the public how belligerent the movement is.
hyhybt
It does need to be fought in the Supreme Court… just not this court. We need a couple of retirements first for a hope of winning.
Though I’d love to be proven wrong.
Sebastian
We will always have Connecticut.
klerry
damn i logged off my mmorpg to see what happened, only to feel the pain of a combo attack move from homophobes…massive loss of hit points, no mana to sustain…i’m dead again!
Attmay
Let’s vote on the rights of goyim next.
Barry White
WOW, I must say first that i’m a married hetro sexual male. I am stunned by things i’ve read here (I found this site by looking up the decision online) “this must be resolved by the courts” THAT is your problem, you show little respect for OTHERS opinions of marriage, and why it was structured for a man & woman. The longer homosexuals keep trying to SHOVE their lifestyle, and MINORITY opinions down everyone elses throughts, the longer you will build contempt, and find ZERO resolution.
The COURT circumvents the people and society, in effect, its a trick, a scam, to push through ideas that the MAJORITY disagrees with, that’s a no, no, and a BAD protocol. Stop blaming hetro sexuals and society for disagreeing with what is factually an UNNATURAL act and lifestyle, we don’t want it in our homes, nor in front of our children. It’s YOUR business keep it that way, and stop tying to force everyones else to accept it. Perhaps THEN if your “militant” groups learned to capitulate to the MAJORITY, over time you may win hearts and minds out of sympathy, but certainly NOT this way.
Everytime I see some gay proposal that is being fought through the court system? It bulids my ire to fight it anyway I can, its an attempt to force law on the people via the legal system, and that is a DANGEROUS slope to head down. Stop being so selfish, and learn to accept, and adapt, to facts on the ground folks, you will NEVER gain ground any other way. Life doesn’t suffer fools…
Taylor Siluwé
@ no 52. Barry White –
Thanks for sharing your views of what you consider an “UNNATURAL act and lifestyle”. I must assume you’re talking something sexual when you say “act”, because two adults sharing their lives and raising a family isn’t an act, and certainly not unnatural.
Your position reminds me of the vehement words of another Barry, who said “you can’t legislate morality.” He was expressing his staunch opposition to the Federal Government’s attempt to (as you put it, Barry White) – “force law on the people via the legal system” with the CIVIL RIGHTS Act of 1964.
Fortunately, Barry Goldwater, and the majority of Americans who agreed with him at the time, were proven to be the ignorant bigots they were, and have gone down in history as such.
Oh, and one more thing, why don’t you try looking up the true reason for the institution of marriage – you will find it extremely enlightening.
Have a nice day, Barry.
Chance
Brian – you’re stuck in a political trap, when the answer isn’t political. You want us to not vote? Great, we’ll just appear to be a part of the general American trend of voter apathy, which will exaggerated in 2010 with or without your help. Follow your advice and we can disappear into the great, dissatisfied throng.
Or we’ll just vote for the Republican. Because nothing says “You only get our support by supporting us” like helping to elect someone who will never support us.
But wait! There are republicans who support us and support equality! If we play the political game, we’re going to lose. There simply aren’t enough people at the moment who vote with equality as a priority. Our votes our expendable. Don’t vote, and they won’t notice. They may not win, but the answer isn’t to cater to one voting minority. We’ve seen this game before, when Clinton let us down. And we got Bush, so we were all real real hungry for a savior in Obama. Well he’s not our savior. We are not a priority, because the voters haven’t made us a priority.
We play the people game and we win. When people, not gay people, but a real spectrum of voters start to make their voices heard and commit to our country’s ideals – when these people say that equality is not optional – not only will our lives on the ground be improved, but the politicians would have no choice but to fall in line or look for new work.
I’ve said it before: the large majority of Americans will support equality. The really firm, unmovable religious opposition is no more than a third of the country. We just haven’t asked the majority to help us by making equality a personal responsibility. They’ll help, but we have to get out there and ask them. And that’s an active movement with tangible results.
You’re asking us to do nothing. You’re asking us to wait for another savior, even if it means suffering through another oppressor. What are you waiting for? Our savior isn’t coming for us. We have to do this ourselves. And we don’t have to wait. If we actually act, in a smart, strategic way, we can win our equality now. Don’t wait or expect some political machine to do this for you.
hyhybt
#52: Being gay is difficult to understand for most people who aren’t. Judges are (hopefully) intelligent people who are used to weighing all sides objectively; entirely too much of the general population thinks ‘objective’ means Sean Hannity etc. and/or quite literally cannot even find the USA on a globe.
Robert, NYC
To the Maggie Gallaghers and other ignorant breeders when they refer to scripture, citing that worn out Leviticus mantra, take should be reminded of this precious little tidbit into account before they open their filthy mouths….
Deuteronomy 22:22 “If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die.”
Are you listening Governor Sanford, Newt Gingrich, Bill Clinton, John Edwards, Vito Fossella, David Vitter et al? You can’t have it both ways while claiming the sanctity of marriage as a reason to deny us our rights. They’re all scumbags.
schlukitz
No. 37 · Taylor Siluwé
We need an act from the top, and all the states will just have to suck it up.
BINGO!
schlukitz
No. 52 · Barry White
WOW, I must say first that i’m a married hetro sexual male.”
That has something to do with something, I assume? Or is it a qualification for commenting on a gay site? I am confused?
I am stunned by things i’ve read here
Oh, poor baby. But you are probably ok with wars going on in Iraq and Afghanistan and all of our boys who are being killed in the name of Democracy, the pending Ugandan law to kill homosexuals as well as the baby sacrifices they make to the “spirits”. Those things probably don’t “stud” you in the least, since you didn’t comment on them.
The COURT circumvents the people and society, in effect, its a trick, a scam, to push through ideas that the MAJORITY disagrees with, that’s a no, no, and a BAD protocol.
So, essentially what you are saying is that YOU think that the civil rights act of 1964 was bad and should be repealed? Do you also favor separate schools, sitting at the back of the bus and separate water fountains for blacks as well?
Stop blaming hetro sexuals and society for disagreeing with what is factually an UNNATURAL act and lifestyle, we don’t want it in our homes, nor in front of our children.
So, will you be throwing your kids out int he street when one of them declares themselves to be gay or will you be sending him/her to a religious brain-washing retreat to have “removed”?
Stop being so selfish, and learn to accept, and adapt, to facts on the ground folks
That sounds an awful lot like what the whites were saying to the blacks back int he 60s. “Mind your place.” I guess that remark would make you not only a “white supremacist”, but a “straight supremacist” as well. Way to go,man. Time to get that white Gay KKK drag dry cleaned. I mean, it’s a tad soiled from the last civil-rights fight, isn’t it?
Life doesn’t suffer fools…
Excellent point. You might want to jot that one down in your calendar for future reference when civil-rights for all people, as promised in our American Constitution, become a fact and not just a fantasy.
I will have to admit that I not quite the gentleman that Taylor Siluwé is, so I will not be joining him in wishing you nice day, whether it was said tongue-in-cheek or not.
In fact, I hope you have a lousy fucking day! After all, you have wished us no less.
Michael Letterman
Juan: I read it because the web site I use to keep track of things I should voice my opinion on points me to it.
Andrew: The people have spoken, time and time again and said we must defend marriage.
Chance: You are 100% right either you are equal or you are not, you are equal… to all the other perversions of what is normal, such as but not limited to pedophiles, bestiality, etc..
PopSnap: Yes please take it to court where we can settle it once and for all time. I am confident we will win. If you’d like to get married someday I suggest start dating people of the opposing gender to yourself.
christopher: Amen both NY and NJ are seeing the light and turning away from the path of liberalism toward representing their constituents.
taylor: Don’t let the size of my penis deter you from my message it is not there for your enjoyment only the enjoyment of my wife. I’m a native to NY and the many times I drove over the bridge into what was the smelliest state in the union I realized that some day NJ would make me proud and it sure has this week.
Boy do you have it backwards… I always pictures your kind giggling and full of phobias, seeing enemies around every corner. But then you said, “suck it up for the moment brethren” and I realized yep you were addressing the gays. Yes the right will win in the end as it has. It will continue to win because as you said it is right.
rf: Are you calling me gay as an insult???? if so ROFLMAO is my response. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black… I’m a happily married heterosexual male who has been married for 22 years to my High School sweetheart. It is my obligation to monitor this and similar websites to gather data. I must be doing a great job since I’m told to keep it going for as long as it lasts. I hope it does go to the courts then our win will be decisive.
Alexander: It is not about majority/minority voting it is about what is right vs. what is wrong. Last I looked the majority of our legislators are both white and able bodied and Christian therefore are they not deciding the rights of the Jews, Blacks and Handicapped already? No one sees a comparison because none exists.
Lukas: I’d say do the right thing show the world why you position is worth their vote… do it without bitterness and without rancor (though I do not think it possible) and perhaps you will convince a few more voters.
B: I never said I was trying to illicit an angry response… I don’t have to try. And I’m also not trying to hide it. More than I can say about you who tries to hide it all.
rf: I’m am both straight and very secure in who I am I mean VERY so I guess that destroys your hypotheses
RF: I’m not concerned about getting “caught” I have done nothing that would concern me. If you want to believe I’m gay go for it. It isn’t really an issue for me what you think, now if you were to act on it then I might have a different take on it.
Taylor: That is exactly what I’ve been saying on my end and what my sub group is working on Federal involvement. Winning one state at a time is a tremendous task which is both expensive and time consuming by taking this Federal we can shorten the time and end the debate about DOMA one and for all time then we can move on to other issues.
B: Nope you’re wrong I show both sides of a conversation and do not claim anything other than what the responses are toward. I don’t have to I can make a very simple initial statement just opposing the gay agenda and your people will do my job for me. All I need do is check in as the emails pop up and continue to state my case or retaliate for insults to myself or my family and you know what someone new will pop in and start it all over again. I most certainly do not delete what comes before the slurs that’s the most important part.
scott: No I am not writing a book I am merely providing a service for an organization who has been requested to do so for a number of politicians both in office and seeking office and on both sides of the aisle so they can get a feel for what type of people they will or are dealing with.
naghaneu: I agree with you completely. I think that you’ve touched upon the only viable solution that is acceptable to a vast majority of people.
Sebastian: Nope Connecticut will soon be revisiting the DOMA debate and we will be there to help.
Taylor Siluwé
No. 59 · Michael Letterman —
Stewie? Is that you? I thought so. Thanx for stopping through to brighten my day. Word of advise though, you really should stop plotting the death of your mother – it’s such bad mojo, and truly conduct unbecoming of a baby.
Smooches …
Michael Letterman
Taylor: Are there other symptoms that you are experiencing it seems you are having problems with identification. I suggest you have yourself checked out quickly. With luck they will find out what disease you are suffering from and with greater luck they will have a cure for you.
B
No. 59 · Michael Letterman wrote/lied, “B: I never said I was trying to illicit an angry response… I don’t have to try. And I’m also not trying to hide it. More than I can say about you who tries to hide it all.” In http://www.queerty.com/is-obama-going-to-make-good-on-his-immigration-reform-promise-to-latino-voters-and-ignore-americas-gays-20091230/#comment-254995 Letterman wrote, “We used to merely observe and notate but I find that through participation I can elicit vile and obnoxious behaviour by just stating my opposing position on a topic, which is exactly what happened.” …. and if you look at his other comments, they contain a continual stream of slurs, and put-downs.
Then Letterman continues his lies with “Nope you’re wrong I show both sides of a conversation and do not claim anything other than what the responses are toward. I don’t have to I can make a very simple initial statement just opposing the gay agenda and your people will do my job for me.” What he probably shows are (1) his initial comment and (2) the response, but with all the slurs and insults that caused the response deleted. Draw your own conclusions about his integrity.
Chance
I’m so proud of this forum. Talking about some straight guy who’s just trying to distract us with his petty, rude posts. We’re playing his game instead of our own. He will never change his mind to support equality, he’s in the third we can’t reach, so move the fuck on. We don’t need his help – we need the other two thirds. So back to business:
Schlukitz and Taylor – you said that we need an action from the top. No! We need an action from the bottom! The top is not interested in us, and they simply don’t have to be. Because the bottom is not engaged.
No one has ever tried to truly activate the majority that believes in equality. No one has invited them into a movement, one that can believably win. We’ve simply relayed the message that someone, anyone, from one of the three branches of government, one of these days, is going to make things better for us. We can put pressure on the top, but other than that, we simply have to wait for them to come through. That’s garbage, and none of us should be content to pressure and wait. This is our victory to win, not the politicians’.
scott ny'er
@No. 63 · Chance
Agreed. It was a little fun to see these peeps go back and forth but really, it’s spreads to every post like a disease.
I wish folks would just not enter into any type of discussion with him. Then, I definitely focus on everyone else’s posts. And not worry that it’s some retort back at him that is not on topic.
Taylor Siluwé
@ Chance –
Take a pill. Stress is a killer.
I’d never advocate sitting around with my thumb in my ass, waiting. Dashing forces from state to state is silly and expensive; better to have a single focus for all supporters of equality nationally. Not inaction, but rather ‘One focus’.
Lukas P.
Do not waste your time on trolls. It does you no good, and will not EVER make a dent in their thinking. Please focus on the issues. Feeding the trolls only encourages them; they seek attention the only way they know how, and when they do not get it, the will seek it elsewhere. Don’t get swept into their vortex—it’s bad for your health, causes acne, boils, hairloss and dangerous surges in blood pressure. Plus, it adds nothing good to the discussion.
Thank you.
schlukitz
No. 63 · Chance
I’m so proud of this forum. Talking about some straight guy who’s just trying to distract us with his petty, rude posts.
Who elected you Grand Pubah and moderator of the conversations taking place on these threads?
The obvious fact here, is that these threads are NOT moderated and there are those who are saying whatever they damned well please, without fear of recrimination or being banned.
If you feel the need to dump on someone, get on their fucking cases or Queerty’s, not those of us who are being trashed by the scum showing up on this site.
schlukitz
No. 66 · Lukas P.
You forgot to mention halitosis. lol
How are you and yours doing? Hope the New Year is progressing well.
Taylor Siluwe
LOL! Attaboy schlukitz!
schlukitz
No. 69 · Taylor Siluwe
;P
Attmay
@69 (teehee) Schlukitz:
“The obvious fact here, is that these threads are NOT moderated and there are those who are saying whatever they damned well please, without fear of recrimination or being banned.”
The hell they’re not. For some reason, my posts are moderated, but the breeder bigots and people praising Hitler and Stalin get through with no moderation at all.
Chance
I’m not dumping on anyone except those who allow themselves to be distracted from constructive conversation by battling with trolling idiots. If that shoe happens to fit you, that’s your concern, not mine.
Chance
Taylor, no stress here. Going for cold reason instead. But read what you will. Just trying to find what that one action might be, instead of hoping for a top-down voodoo solution.
Taylor Siluwe
No. 72 · Chance – Voodoo? Really? Constructive dialogue does go downhill with trolls afoot.
rf
“Talking about some straight guy who’s just trying to distract us with his petty, rude posts.”
Professing that you are straight does not make it so.
Michael Letterman
rf: Using your own logic then saying your gay does not make it so either. So you are not gay then, but we both know no man would ever say he was gay (outside of a silly comedic movie) when he, in fact was straight. So I believe any man who claims he is straight is most likely straight and any man who claims he is gay is most definitely gay.
Truth is what does it matter gay/straight unless someone is trying to make a date what does their sexuality have to do with anything? I find it very amusing when a gay man calls a straight man gay/queer, or any variation of the term, as an insult.
Yeah we constantly see on TV and in public schools people using the term “that’s gay” or “your gay” as an insult but to see it being used by queers is particularly amusing for obvious reasons. Much like the black community and the ‘N’ word, black rappers use the word ‘nigger’ constantly but it is inappropriate for whites to use it apparently. Yet as long as they use it themselves as a derogatory it will remain in our lexicon as an invective.
This is one of the reasons I say the queer community is it’s own worst enemy.
Brian NYC
This forum has been hijacked by do-nothings like Schlukitz and Taylor – a couple of old gays waiting, and waiting and waiting for some political messiah AND anti-gay fools who can still get the attention of the gays that like to fight about “words” but never do anything productive.
It no wonder that gays keep getting defeated. They just want to WAIT or BITCH. No wonder the gay popularity rating keeps going down.
Taylor Siluwé
No. 76 · Brian NYC —
I’m being to worry about your mental stability (among other things), Brian.
Because,
A) you use the term “the gays” a little too much for my taste.
B) you described me as an old gay (which, even when I am actually older and gray, is a phrase that will stick in my craw)
C) you think my suggesting FOCUSED activism equates to inaction
Get help. This last exchange of ours was anything but “productive”.
rf
not an insult, an observation.
Brian NYC
@ Taylor:
“This has to be national thing, like the Civil Rights Act.”
——————————————–
How is the GLBT “Civil Rights” Act coming along? You are the delusional one. Our Congress won’t pass any GLBT laws. None.
People have been talking about this tactic for more than 40 years. How close are we? Next year? Next decade? Next century?
schlukitz
No. 79 · Brian NYC
Thank you for sharing, if one could call it that.
Oh, and do pardon Taylor and I for having the unmitigated gall to comment on these threads.
We obviously failed to see the “No Trespassing” sign you erected on your proclaimed private property.
Oh, and just for curiosity’s sake, what have you done in the last 40 years to bring equality to the LGBT movement, besides personally attacking people, that is?
Brian NYC
Skulkitz – How is the GLBT “Civil Rights” Act coming along? You’ve been promoting that for 60 years. What’s the latest?
I’m in my 20s and one thing I do understand is that the GLBT effort needs to get a lot better. If I was doing something for 60 years and it didn’t work or even look possible, I don’t know, I think I’d try something else.
I don’t mean any disrespect, but when does our movement grow up?
Brian NYC
Oh, and what have YOU done for 60 years? Yell at others? I’m new. I’m trying to understand why we have so many failures. You were part of that, not me.
Taylor Siluwé
Okay, Brian,
I bow to your twenty-something wisdom and experience. Gotta teeter off and take my Metamucil….
Brian NYC
Well, maybe after your Metamucil you can answer my questions about your movement(s). Skullitz, too.
scott ny'er
@No. 76 · Brian NYC
Wow Brian. You sound angry to me. Sound familiar.
Better yet, what do YOU propose?
Have you really looked at what has been done in the past and dissected it and concluded that nothing has worked and no progress has been made. I’d be interested in seeing a summarized version of what has gone before and ramifications or lack thereof what happened because of such failed attempts. It’d help me bone up on my LGBT history and then I too can speak about it on sites like this when the topic comes up, with confidence, and not sound ignorant.
Wen
@10 Ind (and others), here’s the link to view the votings by each senator+motivation:
http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/media/archive_audio2.asp?KEY=S&SESSION=2008
Click ‘View’ on ‘Thursday January 07 2010’.
Wen
To add: Forward to 25-26 minutes into the video, there it starts.
Brian NYC
Scott:
I propose we try to figure out why we haven’t made much progress and we decide which, if any, of our decades-long tactics are even effective.
I’m new to this. I saw on ActOnPrinciples.com that after 50 years we have achieved only 8% of our equality. So, I was questioning what we have been doing. There are many very talented people in our community and nobody seems to talk about our movement and ideas. I used to give HRC $50 a month and after two years I had nothing to show for it.
I’d like to know when we’ll have 100% equality and what we need to do to get there. That’s what I’m asking.
New Jersey was a big defeat. I was in this thread to discuss what we can do. I don’t need to see personal chit-chat anymore than you do.
I’d like to know how we can get our equality. I want to contribute. I want to help. I work on Broadway and we have some little projects and some friends went to the March For Equality but they came back disappointed. The March didn’t really have a purpose. My friends had more fun going out to drink in DC. After the March the EqualityAcrossAmerica website stop working. Folded, i guess.
There are a lot of us younger people that want to know what works. We want to know what we can do.
Taylor Siluwé
No. 84 · Brian NYC –
All kidding aside.
I understand that you’re angry. I understand the frustration you feel. When I was a twenty-something, I didn’t care that much about activism and “the movement” [hey, it was a different era and a different me]. So kudos to you for caring with such passion. I sincerely mean that.
Now, twenty years later, the world has changed tremendously. I see all the successes and the failures. I also see that relying on the whims of the masses (and back-stabbing politicians) will always be a crap shoot. Therefore I now see working together and changing things from the top down is the way to go. You’re from a different generation, have had different experiences, so naturally our perspectives won’t always mesh.
But don’t think for a nanosecond that the generations that came before you don’t want full equality just as badly as you do. As a matter of fact, we’ve bled for it, saw friends die for it and from society’s apathy. Don’t ever forget that.
Because when all is said and done and swept under the fridge, we’re on the same team.
Brian NYC
Taylor:
What do you mean “changing things from the Top down?”
Taylor Siluwé
Brian:
I mean as opposed to fighting state by state, legislature by legislature, winning and then having it overturned by the bigots (because they never give up), and on and on and on to point of activist burn-out. There are names on that list of NJ Democrats who promised to vote for equality, smiled in our faces and shook our hands, yet they reneged and voted NO. It’s disheartening beyond belief. So I’m over the little fights, I wanna go for the Big Kahuna.
I brought up the CIVIL RIGHTS ACT because it’s obviously a similar situation (some vehemently disagree, but in my mind they’re not thinking clearly), and it was a time in American history when a Federal Act forced the individual states to its will, while individual legislatures, given a chance, would have quickly voted it down. Why Lyndon Johnson signed that act in ’64 is questionable and there are tons of books with different opinions, but I’d guess the country was tearing itself apart and something had to be done. That’s what we need now, an EQUALITY ACT. Maybe even some civil disobedience, but I don’t wanna put that out there.
Of course, this is no easy task. And the nuts and bolts of getting that Bill passed are for greater minds than mine. But a federal mandate would force even the most bigoted jurisdiction into line, once and for all. I truly believe that’s where we are headed anyway, so why not focus our energies in a unified fashion in that direction?
Because if we have to help another politician get into office only to have him/her give our community their ass to kiss – I just might explode.
Brian NYC
Taylor:
That would require the US Congress. We’re screwed there. We can’t pass anything in the US Senate. Looks like it’s going to get worse with this years elections.
Taylor Siluwé
Maybe not, Brian … Sometimes the crazies play their crazy hand too much. We know they’re nuts, but other middle of the road people are starting to realize it too. So theres still hope on that front.
Michael Letterman
B: What you say makes no sense. If I 1) show my initial comment and then 2) show the response whatever it may be slur or otherwise… Where is the problem. How dare you impinge on my integrity when yours is completely in question.
You have all the integrity of a tabloid newspaper. In fact I would say in that statement I insulted tabloid newspapers by including you in that sentence.
Nothing that I ever said to you was a lie. I offered a ton of truthful information about myself and you continue to hide like the chicken-shit little turd you are.
The only people I ever was rude or mean to were where others treated me or my family that way first. This is the truth no matter what you claim. The more you avoid the truth the less meaning your words have. I find you to be ignorant and obtuse and my prior praise of you was woefully undue you.
Chance: Third you can’t reach, buddy your message falls on deaf ears for a full 60% of this country which is the very reason you lose even in the most liberal of states. I’m a member of one of those three branches you speak of Judicial and nearly across the board both sides of the aisle we feel that this issue has already taken too much time away from the more important things we have to deal with. Now the Legislative branch is seeing our point and exploring through many organizations what their options are to put this to final rest. That leaves the Executive
branch and you know that BHO has not lived up to his promise and even if he was to do so he does not make laws he can only suggest Congress examine an issue and buddy you have no chance of getting Congress to pass this law. DOMA will stand.
Scott: Me too. I’m so sick of them if I didn’t have to perform my duties I’d blow this place as fast as most of you would blow a trucker for his fuzzy dice.
Taylor: Spare me any details of what you like in your ass thumb or otherwise.
schlitz: Your so stupid you will insult your own kind when he is giving you some helpful suggestions. You cannot bring yourself to be civil even when someone is offering you sage advice. If in 73 years you still do this I have to say you must be an idiot.
Michael Letterman
Brian: Believe me I’m neither anti gay or a fool and I am doing lots. Yet I also agree with most of your post. Especially that the gay popularity rating is going down. Most of the people who post here, not necessarily yourself, are the reason.
Taylor: There you go attacking one of your own because your too dimwitted to see the truth. How about he should have called you what you are a young queen and focused or not you’ll still loose. The only way you’re going to be productive is if you donate your body to science.
schlukitz: Now you’re an old queen if ever there was one. Keep bashing your own kind it makes you look ever so more wretched in anyone’s eyes who reads your posts.
scott: Every time the issue gets voted on you see the results why do you think that happens? Why do you think after all this time of no change in your approach you are still turned away?
Taylor: oh pretty please try that an ‘equality act’ you and the pedophiles and the furry lovers can all try to be called equal and see what happens. Which crazy are you referring to the people who realize what your kind really are like? or the ones who keep trying the same old thing even though the last time and the times before they failed?