During an appearance on Gordon Klingenschmitt’s (a.k.a. “Dr. Chaps”) web talk show Pray In Jesus’ Name, antigay activist Will Perkins claimed “homosexuality is not normal.”

“Homosexuality is an aberration,” Perkins said Monday, looking rather skeletal and, frankly, half-dead. “If homosexuality were the norm … there would be no human race.”

Klingenschmitt took it a step further and offered, “If homosexuality were normalized, people would not have children.” Then, to prove he knows a thing or two about biology, he added, “When a man mates with another man, he doesn’t get pregnant.”

Perkins agreed with this scientific theory. “Yes, that’s right,” he said with a nod. “Homosexuality does not reproduce. It recruits.”

“Interesting,” Klingenschmitt said. “So, the only way they can propagate their own kind is to recruit the children of heterosexuals?”

“Correct,” Perkins answered. “And that’s why they’re so interested in marriage, for the access to children. That’s the main reason. It isn’t for their welfare. It’s for their recruitment.”

Klingenschmitt, of course, is a longtime homophobe. Perkins, too, has a history of opposing LGBT people. In 1992, he helped pass Colorado’s constitutional amendment which prohibited the state from recognizing sexual orientation as a protected class. That amendment was struck down as unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court in the 1996 landmark case Romer v. Evans.

Watch the interview below.

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