“We need a cultural and political centre, where we can develop new, better ways of gay living that are more suited to our nature,” LGBTQ activist Viktor Zimmerman tells Vice in a new interview.
That is why he is proposing a new country exclusively for gay people, no heteros allowed… OK, OK, maybe some heteros can live there, but, Zimmerman insists, “their numbers will be limited and they will not be in charge.”
Related: Congressman Wants Gays Banished To Deserted Island For “100 To 200 Years”
“Bringing gay people together in a creative and affirmative environment will release a tremendous energy,” he proclaims. “Thousands of gay artists, writers, sculptors, filmmakers and songwriters will be brought together in one spot. There would be no more cultural oppression from the hetero; all the public spaces would be decorated with gay artwork.”
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Zimmerman adds that his new gay city-state will also provide “a safe haven for millions of gay people” who are currently living in “dangerous circumstances.”
“Our purpose is to establish a free, independent and democratic gay state,” he says. “We strive to initiate one or more self-administrated settlements for gay people, and look to promote their economic, cultural and political development.”
And where will this all-gay country be located? Zimmerman isn’t sure yet, but, he says, “it should be somewhere where there is sufficiently cheap and habitable land available in a warm climate by the seaside.” He’s thinking maybe some place in South America would be nice, or “a friendly Buddhist country in southeast Asia.”
Related: Smallest Country In The World Passes Same-Sex Marriage, Still Waiting For Gay People
He continues: “The next step would be taking a long-term lease on a moderate-sized territory from an existing country. The territory will be used to establish a settlement on conditions of extraterritoriality. Legally, it would still remain the territory of the host country, but we could administrate it according to our own laws.”
And as for keeping the population from dying off, Zimmerman says immigration will be key.
“We all know how gay babies are made–there are millions of them being born into this world year by year, without any effort on our side,” he explains. “All we need is for a fraction of them to pack their stuff together and move to the gay state.”
Zimmerman is convinced that if enough LGBTQ people sign on to his project, they can actually make it happen. Like, for real.
“Legally, the foundation of the gay state is viable,” he says. “There have been precedents for the establishment of new states via treaties, such as the creation of the Vatican state, and there have been multiple legal precedents for the peaceful acquisition of land. There have also been precedents for international recognition of non-territorial sovereign entities, such as the Order of Malta.”
“We are confident that one day gay people will have territorial control over a sovereign territory.”
Related: 10 Men Strip Naked on Fishing Boat And It Isn’t a Gay Cruise?
desertboy
But I love straight boys. Might be a problem.
Baba Booey Fafa Fooey
I support this.@desertboy: You are what I want to get away from.
Baba Booey Fafa Fooey
They tried to start one back in 1970 in California called “Queer Nation”. This feeling of seperatism, which I currently do, has been around for ages among lots of LGBT people. It may have always been a desire.
Creamsicle
Interesting thought experiment, but it will definitely take more work than expected. Building a city-state on uninhabited land? Presumably it would have to be undeveloped land if you don’t want to incorporate heterosexuals living there already. I don’t think it will ever happen so long as people have the option of fighting for legal equality in their home countries, but it would make for a fun dinner party conversation since you would have to discuss all the ins and outs of establishing a human settlement out of nothing.
ErikO
@Baba Booey Fafa Fooey: LOL exactly gay men who lust and chase after hetero men are silly. I do remember that happening in CA. But I can see how this guy’s proposed place would ostracize bisexual people who are with an opposite gender/sex partner, trans people who are heterosexual, and gay/lesbian people who were once married or who have had opposite sex/gender partners. I don’t really see the point of LGBT/gay separatism from heterosexual people.
Alistair Wiseman
Liberals – always dreaming of utopia.
And how are you going to pay for all of this? From all that “art”? The “thousands of gay writers, artists, sculptors, filmmakers and songwriters”?
I’m not a separatist and enjoy diversity. Good luck
redcarpet30
OK, but what if gay people come and have heterosexual kids? Do they get kicked out? What about trans and gender fluid people?
I don’t think this guy has really thought it through.
Xzamilloh
That would be a utopia like North Korea is a utopia. I needs my straights. Gay men are too catty, lesbians are always mad about something, and the bis and trans wouldn’t be allowed. .. unless they pledged to only partake of the suddenly boring now that it’s not forbidden tree. This is dumb. Progressive liberals need to weed these regressives out of their mix immediately, but I’m about tired of being a liberal with these bunch
Drew Espinosa
I bet Louie Gohmert is happy about this news… smh.
In all seriousness, I hate this idea. It is promoting segregation, like “no heteros” …wtf?
Xzamilloh
@Drew Espinosa: Hence, why this particular subset of liberals are called regressives. Because like die hard traditional conservatives, they want society to regress back to more archaic time, except they’re under the guise that they’re promoting progress.
stadacona
It would be the most viscous, violent, unequal, and unhappy country ever. With the world’s highest suicide and poverty rates. And it would die out in less than two generations.
Josh447
Are you kidding? Some seriously deranged religious psycho would bomb it in two seconds.
stadacona
edit : vicious- as in mean and nasty like a gay bar. Not viscous as in santorum running out of everyone’s butt.
Alistair Wiseman
“Segregation now,
Segregation tomorrow,
Segregation forever”
-George Wallace, r a c i s t Democratic Alabama Governor
January 14, 1963
Liberals are never too far from their r a c i s t, bigoted past.
CWM85
Nutjob alert…
Darrellx
If Trump wins, I am a Pilgrim.
mjstraus
@redcarpet30: There would be so many issues. I am thinking about the part stated “Legally, it would still remain the territory of the host country, but we could administrate it according to our own laws.”. And when the host country dosent like you anymore oopppppssss what than? Just askin.
captainburrito
Would make a good movie. Would be a target for homophobes and internally i think it will have a ton of drama, end up fracturing or turn into a cult. I have such little faith in these utopias. Makes me think of Libera and Jonestown – just hope it will be a martini and not kool aid!
Bryguyf69
This is moronic, but not unprecedented. A good analog is Israel, which was a nation created as a safe haven for an oppressed people (although some would disagree). It is the Jewish State as this proposed gaytopia would be the Gay State. But modern Israel is facing a dilemma. With Palestinian birthrates outpacing Jewish ones in many regions, can it maintain a Jewish identity without oppressing and repressing Palestinians? Most experts say no. If Israel is a true democracy where Palestinian-Israelis are given an equal vote, the inevitable result will be policies in favor of Palestinians. And the Jewish State is no more (which is not to say that Israel will cease to exist). As an aside, that is the also the rallying cry of Islamophobic and anti-Latino Americans. They claim that Sharia law will be instituted and English will be a minority language (hence the English First movement)
Israel, then, has only a few choices. They can let democracy take hold and hope that Palestinian-Israeli peace will finally prevail and its Palestinian citizens won’t necessarily vote against Jewish policies. Or they can place quotas and limits on Palestinian rights. That can range from restricting their vote to childbirth limits (a la China) to forced deportations.
That’s similar to what this gay nation might face. As long as its gay leaders see heterosexuals as an impediment, there will be some mechanism to limit their rights. This is especially true given the biological fact that only 2-5% of births will be gay (some interesting research on prenatal endocrinology suggests a way to increase gay births, but that’s a whole other topic). So unlike Israel, where Jews can conceivably outbirth Palestinians, gay births can never outnumber straight ones. To maintain a gay state, then, is undemocratic and unAmerican. Indeed, even exiling homophobes merely for their beliefs is contrary to Western democracy.
Tobi
Jonestown 2.0
Ogre Magi
@Xzamilloh: What makes you say this guy is liberal
Mack
Love it, got a “auto-flagged” for setting Alistair Wiseman straight with his comments. Perhaps Queerty doesn’t like the honesty.
Alistair Wiseman
@Mack:
Ha! Ha! You liberals LOVE your censorship!
Reap what you sow.
Masc Pride
No one in their right mind would want to live there. And then there’s that whole inevitable extinction problem…
batesmotel
It sounds like an interesting idea, but would never work on so many levels. First of all how disastrous would that be with everyone sleeping with one another and passing diseases around like a tennis ball. Second this is with the assumption that heterosexual people are bad, when in truth I have more loyal loving heterosexual friends than homosexual ones who fit that criteria. And thirdly, this is isolated yourself and more or less hiding rather than intermingling with others not like you. People don’t learn to love all people unless they develop tolerance. An idea like this is because one refuses to be tolerant of those not like you. Other than that, interesting concept.
DarthKitsune
I am all for moving to a gay city-state, we really do need a space where we are not tolerated and our rights are not up for debate.
Bryguyf69
Speaking of Buddhist countries, if I’m not mistaken, gay-friendly Thailand had established a gay island in the 90’s. I think the island was more of a gay resort than a geopolitical entity. This happened with the King’s blessings, who had spoken in favor of gay unions. Despite that, it’s sad that Thailand still doesn’t recognize same sex marriages, or even civil unions. And while Thailand is one of the more gay-friendly nations, critics say that much of it is an illusion (some of my Swedish and Dutch friends say the same about their countries).
Asia is the most religiously diverse continent. Muslim Indonesia and Malaysia, and Catholic Philippines, are expectedly homophobic. But Buddhist Asia is interesting and quite nuanced. Unlike the other major religions, there is nothing inherently homophobic in Buddhism (Christianity, Judaism and Islam share an Abrahamic history, and Hinduism is very sexist, resulting in homophobia). That’s because it is generally non-judgmental since its focus is on inner personal growth. In its purest form, Buddhism is non-punitive. It doesn’t threaten you with damnation or forced conversions. That’s why no major conflict has ever been fought in the name of Buddhism, unlike the Crusades, Inquisition, Middle Eastern and Indian-Pakistani conflicts (Buddhists mostly fought among themselves, and sadly, there is Buddhist oppression of a minority religion in Myanmar).
Yet homophobia clearly exists in Buddhist Asia. The reason is tradition rather than religion. For example, the duty to procreate is sacred. And that’s why I’m optimistic. Above all, Asians are pragmatic. It’s what propelled Japan, S Korea, Singapore, and Hong Kong/China into economic powerhouses. And a lot of these traditions were once pragmatic. For example, they needed large families because many children don’t survive to adulthood to work the fields. But needs change, and as China’s successful One Child policy has shown us, so must laws. Religion is allegedly unwavering. Religious homophobia, then, is much more entrenched. The Pope says homosexual acts are a sin regardless of changing mores and a lessened need to procreate. But social homophobia is much more easily changed. Scientific data and celebrity examples are readily accepted – rather than condemned as they are in Christian/Islamic countries. That’s why you don’t see homophobic groups like The Family “Research” Council or the Moral “Majority.” Or homophobes like Anita Bryant and Phyllis Schlafly (ding dong the Witch is dead!). So yeah, I’m very optimistic for Buddhist Asia — despite the fact that same-sex marriages is still absent there.
This article says that over 50% of Thais believe that homosexuality is wrong.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/The-bitter-truth-behind-Thailands-gay-friendly-ima-30252466.html
rroderick_rowe
Some of the comments hit some key points about thinking out this concept. I have a novel out there that fills in the gaps of how a society like this could develop and thrive! Please check out “Paradigm Lost: Jamari and the Manhood Rites, Part 1” for a look at one possible vision of how this could work out! See it at: https://www.createspace.com/6040465
Or look it up on the Kindle site.
Bryguyf69
An interesting followup to my post about Asian [non]homophobia. In 2010, CNN International had a poll for Greatest Musical Icon. Michael Jackson was #1 and the Beatles were #2. But #3 was someone most Americans probably never heard of: Leslie Cheung. He was an openly-gay singer/actor (although Wikipedia says he was bisexual, my Chinese friends say that he admitted to being gay, and was even in a well-publicized gay relationship, which Wiki fails to mention). He even starred in the gay film, Happy Together, and Farewell My Concubine, where he played a eunuch. Despite this — and despite having committed suicide 7 years earlier by leaping out a window — he was still #3, beating Elvis (#4) and Madonna (#6). He may have even beaten Jackson, had Jackson not been fresh in voters’ memories, having died just a few months before. When I followed the poll, Cheung was actually leading. His very public funeral lasted for days and was attended by tens of thousands around the world, despite the fear of SARS (many mourners wore masks). So yeah, Asia is clearly not very homophobic if a dead gay singer is so iconic.
And yes, he was cute! 🙂
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Music/08/24/music.icon.gallery/index.html#fbid=nVIn7HoUxgC&wom=false
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Cheung
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpU9R4p5AdQ
Stilinski26
But we ll all be easy targets?
Felecia
Isn’t the idea of segregating we LGBT’s EXACTLY what the homophobes want anyway…why give in to them and be ‘exiled’….making a clear target for any nut-job who wants to show up and start shit there for us. I agree, this guy hasn’t thought it through…a few decades ago I moved to Valdosta, Georgia, and was the ONLY open-and-out lesbian in the entire town. The one gay bar was hidden inside a beautiful Victorian mansion; no sign, or any other visible means of knowing what was behind the front doors. Patrons entered from the back entrance in order not to be seen; I was like ‘forget THAT’ and strolled right up the porch, grabbing the doors and going in. I felt like an alien…everything and everyone stopped, staring at me like I was a ghost, lol…but after a few free drinks hefted in support of my brashness, I made friends and was told not to be so ‘out’ or the rednecks would come calling…well, I’m not ashamed, so I ignored the advice…and lo-and-behold, I made STRAIGHT friends too, in that city…three years later I had to relocate for a job; my Valdosta friends BEGGED me not to go..including my hetero landlord, lol…I never had one problem living there; I was gay, proud, and OWNED it..exiling ourselves isn’t the answer..it only breeds ignorance and fear of the unknown. This LGBT ‘country’ would be one big closet, where we thankfully (to the homophobes) would stay and not be in sight to annoy them with our ‘sinful culture’, lol…well, screw THAT; I’m not playing into the game and giving the bible-thumpers what they want…I’ve lived pretty much all over the U.S. and having an out-and-proud attitude has always worked for me. I’ve showed the straights that other than having a same-sex wife, my daily existence and responsibilities are exactly like theirs; this shows human solidarity and is a better plan than just running away to some island like scared chickensh*ts, lol…
Bryguyf69
Oops, sorry — I forgot to cue the video to the gay part at 21:30. He REALLY pushed the limits. Enjoy…
https://youtu.be/dpU9R4p5AdQ?t=21m30s
Hussain-TheCanadian
So one man wants and Island, and some people go on a tangent about “regressives” and liberals?
Pleeeeeeeeeaaaaassssssseeee!
Kris
GOD I HOPE IT’S SOMEWHERE WARM 🙂
Bryguyf69
@Felecia: Yep, during the AIDS crisis, many homophobes proposed shipping the afflicted to an island. Segregation is stupid for something so frivolous. There are circumstances, however, where it may be necessary. An example is the Harvey Milk School (they may have changed their name), which only accepts at-risk LGBT students, who would otherwise dropout. A senior retirement complex is also appropriate, given the special needs of this population. Indeed, such homes are already planned.
Chris
We already have such a place; it’s the city called Wilton Manors.
Alistair Wiseman
DEAR QUEERTY,
PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR CENSORSHIP POLICY. SINCE YOU ARE SO DEEPLY ENTRENCHED IN SILENCING THE VOICES OF YOUR READERS, DON’T YOU FEEL YOU OWE AN EXPLANATION AS TO WHAT YOUR POLICY IS AND WHY YOU ENGAGE IN IT?
baggins435
And you can paint it with a huge rainbow target because it would be irresistible to right wing extremists.
figerino
if there’s no hetero’s allowed then that’s literally segregation and should not be allowed but if thats just a joke then cool i guess its like a gay bar but an entire island
dean089
“…gay artists, writers, sculptors, filmmakers and songwriters will be brought together in one spot.” Hmm, no mention of gay mechanics, farmers, brick layers, etc. So what he’s really talking about is a place for the kind of gays of which he approves. All others need not apply. Sorry, but we already get enough of that bourgeois from Dan Savage and his ilk. No thanks!
QJ201
Well there was Key West, but it got way pricey!
AL
That nation must be the strongest, prettiest and sexiest on earth..as we know we are always better with better genes lolsss
OzJosh
Anyone who thinks this sounds like a good idea should probably visit Israel, a state established along not dissimilar lines – and one of the most oppressive, depressing places on earth. After three days I was screaming to be let out.
Kim K Kute Kuchie
glad to see this in reality. Soon the country will be rampant with drag queen’s petty cat fights & not enough real men (straight or gay) to hold jobs in “un-femmely” tech areas … YAWN
mujerado
@Baba Booey Fafa Fooey: You are completely wrong about Queer Nation. It was never intended to be a gay country. It’s a political action group, an offshoot of ACT UP. It was founded in NY City in March, 1990 and there are chapters in many cities all across the U.S. You really shouldn’t talk about what you don’t know.
Alistair Wiseman
@OzJosh:
Perhaps, as a gay man, you should have visited your Arab neighbors in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkmenistan, etc. and then you would know what true oppression feels like.
You know, those countries where gay men are stoned, tortured, thrown from rooftops, etc.
I take it that none of those things happened to you in “oppressive” Israel.
Hussain-TheCanadian
@Alistair Wiseman: Depends where you go in Israel darling.
Besides, he’s speaking from experience – I went to Iran and I had a blast.
The simple things in life Alistair, the simple things. Besides I would like to hear your 2 cents the “sex robot” thread 😉
Alistair Wiseman
@Hussain-TheCanadian:
“Depends on where you go in Israel darling.”
Are you stating that Israel engages in torture, stoning and throwing gays from rooftops? If you know something the rest of the world doesn’t, please expound on your experience and knowledge.
Also, I haven’t read the “sex robot” thread as it didn’t interest me. For you, I’ll read it in a moment.
Tobi
Fire Island.
Baba Booey Fafa Fooey
@mujerado: Uh, you stupid asshole. It’s Stonewall Nation, not Queer Nation. You c-nt.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_Nation
Hussain-TheCanadian
@Alistair Wiseman: Yes the Israeli government engages in torture; does it throw gay people off of rooftops, of course not, but neither does any other government in the region, unless you’re saying ISIS, Alnusra, and Ahrar Alsham are legitimate governments.
Kieran
How exciting. Zimmerman is like the gay Theodore Herzl. Now all we have to do is stage a coup d’etat in Key West or San Francisco and we’re in business.
Alistair Wiseman
@Hussain-TheCanadian:
Please explain to me and the other Queerty readers how Israel “tortures” the gays and lesbians of Israel. What techniques do they use? Where does this happen? Are they ever killed? Is it done by the military? Special forces? How many gays have been tortured?
MarkmBha
INSANE IDEA!
Anyone read Waldon II –
broadshoulder
@baggins435: there you go. Letting right wing extremists push you around.
I like a gay nation. Keep those with prejudiced out. Something to look forward too.
Hussain-TheCanadian
@Alistair Wiseman: I didn’t say the Israeli government tortures gay people.
Alistair Wiseman
@Hussain-TheCanadian:
“I didn’t say the Israeli government tortues gay people.”
Um, yes you did. Six posts back you wrote, “Yes the Israeli government engages in torture….”, when we were specifically talking about gays and lesbians. It couldn’t be any more clear. The context of our discussion was not about straight people, but about gays and lesbians in Israel.
There is a reason why I call you, “Queerty’s Unofficial Muslim Apologist”.
Nahald
At this point I think we need to ship straight people off to their own planet.
dwes09
@Alistair Wiseman: “Liberals – always dreaming of utopia.”
Regressives- always driven by fear and pessimism.
Where exactly did the article mention anything about the political self definition of Zimmerman? Granted i did not read the whole thing because this liberal (who understands the actualities of both liberalism and regressivism better than you seem to ) found it ludicrous. Nonetheless, you usually have difficulty separating your assumptions from reality so i suspect you are doing that here.
dwes09
@OzJosh: “Anyone who thinks this sounds like a good idea should probably visit Israel, a state established along not dissimilar lines – and one of the most oppressive, depressing places on earth. After three days I was screaming to be let out.”
Despite the efforts of the haredi minority, Israel is hardly oppressive. While marriage within Israel is restricted to religious ceremony (this is very likely to change within a few years), Israel offered same sex marriage full faith and credit long before the US did. Gay men and women were allowed to openly serve in the military long before they were here. Although the people in the occupied territories are heavily oppressed, Palestinian citizens of Israel are not, and Christian Palestinians (80% of the Christians in Israel are Arab) fare much better in Israel than in the occupied territories or surrounding countries. Arabic and Hebrew are both official languages in Israel.
Does they torture, absolutely. Do they torture in the occupied territories and other middle eastern countries ABSOLUTELY. Israel undeniably has the moral high ground, even if it is only a few inches higher than their neighbors.
whirlaround
Ok, fine, as long as we get our own space program and can get astronauts on the ISS.
Alistair Wiseman
@dwes09:
What the HELL are you rambling about? Perhaps you should read the Queerty post before hitting the keyboard.
I thought we had a discussion about drinking and posting at the same time.
Ksb1978
What about bisexuals? Are we included?
Bauhaus
I’d visit, but only if @Baba Booey Fafa Fooey: is the gatekeeper.
girldownunder
I applaud the grief this person feels.
As much as we make light of it, it would be nice to know you could live & grow old in a completely LGBTI accepting area, wouldn’t it?
The OP is tired of the wait & of the politics- I understand. We want it NOW- because we are ALWAYS kept waiting.
In AU, I work & service many retirement “villages”> My thought is to start LGBTI-only villages. I say this as I know I’ve visited gay-couple homes, but they feel they cannot say this. So, I imagine, they live as “room-mates” until the day they DIE– in order to satisfy some sociopathic, hetero idea which “keeps hetero safe” from the “gay”?
I feel your pain.
Heywood Jablowme
@Baba Booey Fafa Fooey: @mujerado: You both seem semi-aware of the real story from early ’70s California. There were gay activists in SF who wanted to “take over” Alpine County, pop. 400, to start a gay-run government there. It’s a small Gold Rush-era relic up in the Sierras (and still has a population of only about 1,000). County governments in CA are extremely powerful compared to every other state, so it maybe wasn’t a totally insane idea. But the activists couldn’t much of a group to move up there.
man5996853
Yes, let’s all congregate in a small space. They’ll know where we are and then bomb us into oblivion. We would be herding ourselves through the gate leading to the slaughterhouse.