An Asian man says he plans to sue Grindr for racial discrimination.
Sinakhone Keodara is the CEO and founder of the Asian Entertainment Television company. He recently announced on social media that he’s organizing a class action lawsuit against the hookup app.
Related: ‘No fats, no femmes, no Asians’: 6 films that show how far we have come–and yet to go
In the post, Keodara says that Grindr allows “white gay men to write in their profiles ‘no Asians’, ‘not interested in Asians’: or ‘I don’t find Asians attractive’,” which, he believes, leads to people feeling “offended, humiliated, degraded and dehumanised” by the app.
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Keodara says he’s looking for co-plaintiffs in all 50 states to join his class action. He says anyone who wants to join must be a paying customer on the app.
A 2015 study found that 15% of guys on the Grindr included sexual racism like “Not attracted to Asians” on their profiles, with white users being the worst offenders.
Meanwhile, just last week, a Facebook group called “Muscle Bears” was exposed for openly discriminating against people of color with a statement that read: “If you are Asian or African do not join the group because it will be blocked from this group.”
Grindr, which is owned by the Chinese gaming firm, Kunlun Tech Co., has not issued any comment on the proposed class action lawsuit.
Related: Facebook group “Muscle Bears” proudly bans all Blacks and Asians
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Chrisk
I kind of see his point but are we going to sue every time some dip shit on Grindr says something insensitive now?
Landmark101
Do you need a mobile phone hacker to snoop on your partner’s Grindr App ? I caught my cheating partner by hiring a competent mobile phone hacker ”P R O V I D E N C E H A C K E R at G M A I L . C O M” he helped me gain access / remote control on his iphone , All Apps located and operating on his phone were accessible to me as i had unlimited access to all whatsApp, facebook messenger , viber, grindr , and all other Apps located and operating on the phone with options of retrieval of deleted grindr messages and media files too.
profiteering
1) If someone actively promotes bigotry on their profile then why would you want to engage with them in the first place? 2) While bigots are trash, I don’t really see the legal grounds to build this lawsuit on. Hurt feelings without a legal discriminatory context under which to sue are just that – hurt feelings.
profiteering
Yup! And I also (echoing what other people have posted) agree that free speech (not hate speech, there is a HUGE difference) is sacrosanct – as is the ability to politely decline someone you’re not attracted to. As the old saying goes, “it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.” But if this guy can think he can sue people into boning him… eeeeesh, I don’t even know what to say to that other than “seek counseling”.
QueerTruth
Good luck with this. It’s a personal profile and although it’s gross behavior, it’s still a form of freedom of speech. You can represent yourself as a bigot if you want.
Interestingly, GRINDR is owned by Chinese gaming company.
Kangol
The US Constitutional First Amendment guarantees “freedom of speech” for core political and expressive speech in the public square, as well as most commercial speech, but not all speech. I.e., if you are a public employee, if you are a citizen writing to your Congressperson, etc. But it does not guarantee protection for kinds of speech that can provoke serious harm, for obscenity, for defamation, etc. Also, private companies have the right to regulate speech, as Queerty demonstrates when it deletes posts it doesn’t like. So bigotry as a form of “freedom of speech” does not apply to Grindr, and certainly China heavily regulates and penalizes speech it does not like, whether in governmental and open forums, or among Chinese private companies.
QueerTruth
Kangol, yes, you are absolutely correct. However, in this case, there is no serious harm. This is a personal relationship (one to one) and if the bigot wants to say “no whatever…” then well, that’s his choice albeit gross. Now if a user is inciting violence, etc, well of course that’s completely different. But that’s not the case.
I find this behavior petty and hateful, but there is danger in curbing opinions. If Grindr in this case, were to bad “no Asians” then they will need to ban much more and good luck trying to manage the millions of accounts.
Claude
Racial discrimination is ILLEGAL. Craigslist had to stop allowing housing ads (including roommate ads) which discriminated because of race and in some instances sex (there are limited legal exceptions for sex when sharing a residence). All someone has to do is say “no thanks” or simply not respond or block a person you aren’t interested in for whatever reason. But to openly say “no blacks” or “no Asians” is discrimination. I think even allowing people to filter based on race is discrimination. California has especially tough laws when it comes to discrimination in public accommodations. The same law which forced Christian dating sites to stop discriminating against same-sex couples can be used against gay dating sites which allow race-based discrimination. In fact, they could probably be used to force gay dating sites and apps to allow for opposite sex (including bisexual) dating if anyone forced the issue. The law does not allow for double standards.
QueerTruth
Claude. Yes, discrimination is illegal in the US and many other countries. However, there are no laws preventing an individual from expressing his romantic interest or lack of interest in a particular group or race. It’s an opinion: freedom of speech. Think of it this way. Can you walk down the street and say- I’m not attracted to Canadians. No Canadians. I won’t date Canadians. Don’t message me Canadians. (Yes, this is ludicrous, but my point is – yes, that’s totally fine. It’s weird but it’s not discrimination. )
Of course, Grindr can curb that since it’s their product, which is what this guy is trying to do, but it’s not illegal to post this on your profile. Frankly…. let them. If you’re a dirt bag bigot who is afraid to receive a message from an Asian or a heavy man or a transgender person, etc, etc then you’re a petty shallow dope. I’d rather know, so I can avoid them.
gymmuscleboy
Claude, those are two very different contexts. One is employing someone for work, and the other is choosing a romantic partner. You can’t racially discriminate who you employ, but you CAN discriminate who you sleep with. Anything less would be authoritarian in the extreme.
Claude
You can sleep with (or not sleep with) whoever you want but Grindr is a business and it is subject to public accommodation laws. eHarmony and Christian Mingle are also dating sites but they had to change their policies because of the law. Craigslist had to agree to police their housing ads to prevent people from openly discriminating against protected classes of people. Who one lives with is a pretty personal decision too but if you are going to advertise publically you have to follow anti-discrimination laws. The same should apply if you are going to publically advertise for a date. That doesn’t mean you have to date everyone (or anyone) who responds it just means you can’t say “No Asians Allowed” or “No Blacks Allowed”. Back in the day when people went to bars or bathhouses to meet people you couldn’t ask the owner to filter out everyone from a particular group because you had no interest in them. Of course, some businesses did find ways to discriminate such as asking people of color or women for multiple pieces of IDs. But gay activists like me put up picket lines or filed complaints and lawsuits. This lawsuit is just a continuation of that kind of activism. Its long overdue.
SFHarry
There is a difference between someone not being attracted to Asian people and writing “no Asians.” Grinder cannot force someone to be attracted to someone else but they can force them to be respectful. There is no such thing as freedom of speech on a privately held website. Freedom of speech is only relevant when a governmental entity is restricting speech. It may even be as easy as requiring the poster to say what they do want not what they don’t.
gymmuscleboy
@Claude Correction “Craiglist… if you are going to advertise publically you have to follow anti-discrimination laws. The same should apply if you are going to publically advertise for a date.” – Is that true? What if you have a blank profile and politely decline the advance of an Asian gentleman, and he asks why you are not interested? According to you, you cannot tell him the truth (that you don’t like Asians) because it would be committing an act of illegal discrimination. Therefore what would your law imply one must do – (a) Make up a lie, (b) Ignore the Asian altogether?, or (c) Not discriminate in the first place and try to be attracted to the Asian.
Claude
I’m not talking about private communications. If you want to tell someone that you’re not attracted to them solely because of their race, it is only that one person who is affected, and he can respond in kind if he chooses. But when you put it in a public profile than you are affecting everyone who reads that and yes it may run afoul of anti-discrimination laws. We will have to see what the courts decide.
Why someone would actually say that to someone is another question. You can’t just say “thanks but not interested.” You have to be an asshole and tell someone it is because of their race? And what if you’re in one of those dark rooms in a sex club and someone who has a body type that you are normally attracted to and you start having sex with them and are really enjoying it? If they turn up the lights and you discover they are Asian or black (but otherwise completely your type) are you really going to suddenly stop having sex with them? You can argue that you can’t control who you are attracted to but if you’re already obviously attracted to someone but then make a conscious decision to reject them when you discover their race, isn’t that the textbook definition of racism? You have every right to do it but other people have every right to decide that you’re a racist jerk.
What about mixed race people? With today’s DNA testing we are discovering we are all mixed race to a certain extent, some more than others. I was adopted but am black by all outward appearances. A couple of years ago, at age 60, I discover that I am only 46% African and 54% European (46% European Jewish). Where do people like me fit in? Is it the outside or inside or both? The whole thing begins to seem ludicrous after a while. When you’re talking about Asians and people of Asian descent, you are talking about billions of people from very different countries and cultures. The idea that someone would not find any of them attractive is patently absurd.
andrew.agee
@ Claude who said “But when you put it in a public profile than you are affecting everyone who reads that and yes it may run afoul of anti-discrimination laws. We will have to see what the courts decide.”
As a attorney, I can guarantee you the case would be dismissed, since membership is VOLUNTARY, and FREE. In a civil case you would have to prove “damages” and things like a bruised ego don’t count.
Furthermore no Federal court on the planet would TOUCH this case because it doesn’t pass the stink test. The TOS (terms of service) CLEARLY indemnify pretty much EVERYONE at this business besides the cleaning lady. You have to AGREE to the TOS before you enroll. The TOS is pretty clear about what can and cannot be in a profile, including “hate speech” but “no fats, no fems, no asians” does not now, nor has it ever qualified as “hate speech” because it’s a private entity your voluntarily entered.
Good luck on getting this certified as a class-action. The moment this hits someone’s docket it will get politely refused. They can appeal all they want, with some bottom feeding lawyer who hopes for an out of court settlement to just make them go away, but they may well get buried with a gag order or a SLAPP action
“A strategic lawsuit against public participation (SLAPP) is a lawsuit that is intended to censor, intimidate, and silence critics by burdening them with the cost of a legal defense until they abandon their criticism or opposition.” They aren’t pretty, but they are in most cases legal.
So if these clown decided to jump on Twitter, or FB or whatever, GRINDR would most likely crush them. The only case law you will be creating is “if you can’t stand the heat (rejection) stay out of the kitchen (Grindr)
armandov
I think the question is not “can you” but “should you” act like a bigot. I think Asian men get treated like sh*t on these types of sites. The gay community treats b*tchy straight women way better than gay Asian men.
Chrisk
The only way to fix this is to ban any forms of discrimination. No more age discrimination, body type discrimination, dick size discrimination, etc.
armandov
I think it is way more offensive to say “No Asians” then something like “Only looking for 10 inches or more”. It has a deeper and more personal meaning. Kind of like if a landlord hung a sign up in front of this house that said “Asians and Blacks need not apply”. If you truly did not want Asians or Blacks you could simply tell them you found another renter which is more diplomatic than saying “I don’t want you b/c I hate Asians”
JK 1984
I get that having “No ” on someone’s profile is annoying af, demeaning and can really hit someone in the self confidence, especially when seen repeatedly.
I have talked on previous articles about how it is not a preference but an exclusion (preference “I prefer muscly white men aged 18-25” vs exclusion “no Asians, no fems, no fatties”) but I honestly don’t see how this suit would have standing in court.
“Free speech” is guaranteed in certain circumstances but as a privately owned company Grindr isn’t bound by the same requirements as the government.
Without major censorship/filtering it would be almost impossible to stop all the “No….” profiles. Even if they did that the ones who want to exclude would still find a way to put it in their profile.
Donston
There are a decent number of aholes that need to be checked. But where do you draw the line between insensitivity, blantant discrimination, and expressing your preferences and interests (which is the point of these profiles)? It can be hard to police. My biggest advice would be to get the hell off of these apps or at least don’t spend every day, all day on them like some.
AlexEf
Here is a solution. When people setup their accounts on Grindr they should be able to hide THEIR OWN profiles from certain races if they desire. If one doesn’t like asians then hide your profile from asians.
Jeff
Huge fan of Asian men here — have a hot & wonderful Asian partner of 5 years — but *if* I was on Grindr I would specify Asian men at the top of my list. One thing that does bother me (aside from taking rude popshots at Asians) is that it often stated that “white men” do this mainly. I find that black, Latino and even ASIAN MEN THEMSELVES write this in their profiles, but it’s just anecdotal and not backed up by data. Hope this suit is successful and best of luck!
Donston
GetReal101, you could be being sarcastic, but I doubt it. So, I’m going to respond as if that were an earnest post. Are you saying having preferences beyond your own race is inherently fetishistic? But about black men, Asians and Latinos who have preferences beyond their race? Is that inherently fetishistic for them as as well? And are they racist or self-hating? What if black, Latino, Asian guys seek out race play or fetish play from other races? Does it mean that they’re not racist because they’re black, Asian, Latino? Is having racial preferences at all inherently racist?
I empathize and being black I’ve been on the receiving end of a lot of BS in the dating world. But sometimes (in fact, most of the time) I just don’t get what people want and expect, especially out of carnal hook-up apps. At this point I’m almost ready to just tell everyone to grow thicker backbones concerning almost everything.
Kangol
@Donston, I know you know this but some people clearly don’t: Latinxs can be of any race; it is an ethnic category developed in the US for people with some Latin American ancestry (and can include people who are white, black, Native/indigenous, mixed race, etc., much like Latin America).
Donston
Yes, I am aware. I just didn’t feel like spelling that out. And even a great percentage of Latinos throw themselves in the same bubble without breaking down specific racial qualities. On the end, I’m sure you understood my point.
Kangol
@Donston, I did get where you were coming from, and always appreciate your posts, which always give me something to think about and learn from.
Heywood Jablowme
Queerty management seems to have decided that GetReal101 was trolling (perhaps) because they have deleted his posts.
We’ve all seen GetReal’s attitude here, though:
1) If someone is “into” Race X, eek that’s fetishizing and that’s equally as racist as being a “No Race X” racist.
2) If someone goes out with someone from Race X for awhile and says something like, “Hey, you know, I’m not usually into Race X guys but I think you’re really hot!” — omg that’s offensive too.
Do the math: there is literally no mixed-race relationship that GetReal would approve of. (If he was serious, which he might not have been.)
Kangol
Everyone has his/her/their desires. No desires or attractions develop in a vacuum. They’re shaped by the families we grow up in, the societies we live in, etc. In the US whiteness continues to be prioritized and championed no matter what a person’s sexuality may be. This site often is a perfect example of that. Part of why this is results from the settler colonialism, white supremacy and white racial privilege and domination that have been central to the formation of US society since its establishment as a collection of primarily British colonies that became independent and later bought, seized, conquered, or annexed the land of indigenous people or neighboring countries like Mexico. Also central to the development of the US was racialized chattel slavery, which began in 1644 in Massachusetts and ended in 1864-66 with the Union defeat of the Confederacy and the passage of the 13th and 14th Amendments. Both before and after the end of slavery, this country had both de facto and de jure, often brutally enforced racial segregation, in housing, education, etc. Whether we know it or not, whether we acknowledge it or not, this is always the backdrop of racial dynamics in this country. There has been horrific racism against not just Native and Black Americans, but against Asian Americans as well; the Chinese are the only group specifically banned from immigrating to the US, while Japanese Americans are the only group ever to be singled out for internment camps. Many Americans don’t know this, and I can imagine many don’t care, but again, this history isn’t idle, it shapes the present. This man clearly decided he was tired of overt racial discrimination on Grindr, which anyone who reads any reputable news site can see is still a problem throughout US society, and he decided to act on it. It’s his right, just as it is Grindr’s right, if it chooses, to implement rules to ban racial discrimination, and field a lawyer to deal with the lawsuit. Personally, I hope he finds men who can appreciate him; there may be apps or sites for people who can appreciate Asian American and Asian men, or men of all colors, and let the segregationists stew among themselves. Their exclusionist behavior is usually based on fear, whether they admit it to themselves or not.
Coruna2018
Kangol,
I agree with you almost 100% with what you said. I’ve said much the same thing on here and in other forums. One detail: 11,000 Italians and Italian-Americans were interned during World War II, along with Japanese and Japanese-Americans. Sadly, racism comes in all shapes, sizes, and colors.
Black Pegasus
The lawsuit will probably get thrown out, but he’s doing it to clearly send a message. Grindr should be more proactive about racial sensitivity on profiles. You can decline anyone’s advances without being a bigoted loser.
richo87
Yeah, I agree. This suit is about putting pressure on Grindr to voluntary change its rules.
As a practical matter, the way to defeat racial preferences is to change the underlying social norms that drive racial preferences. I go back and forth on whether outright bans help or hurt that cause.
There is something to be said for having people openly declare their true views. I once went on a terrible date with a guy who among other things said he wouldn’t date black men. I wish I knew that in advance so I wouldn’t have wasted my time with him.
justyouandi
We have the freedom of association. It applies here.
SFHarry
Just because someone has a freedom they don’t have to exercise it in the most derogatory of ways.
gymmuscleboy
@SFHarry Just today I came across an Asian on Grindr whose profile read “Not into men over 28 sorry”. There is no end to the hypocrisy and where this victim mentality will lead us. Believe me, we understand the issue and we don’t agree with your perspective.
Robothedestroyer
I just don’t understand the No this No that in profiles. I mean, my preferences are always what I like not dislike. I like men darker than me, either tan or different ethnicity. I like nice smiles. I like dad bods. But I try to avoid “I dislike.” Im told that I’m not attractive a lot lately, mosty due to weight… I preder not to dwell on dislikes. Sadly a lot of the “No” statements are so subjective (except the ethnic ones those are pretty cut-and-dry). Fat to me is not fat to you and vice versa.
I dunno…
Maybe I’m just a slut but within every ethnic group I’ve had the pleasure of being in contact with I have met at least one guy I’d deffinately bone.
ymck
Ug. You are free to love or be attracted to whoever you like, but you don’t have to be a dick about it in your profile. I happen to have a thing against redheads. No clue why. I don’t put it in my profile tho, cuz I see no need to be an asshole about it. Not sure the saying “no Asians” in your profile constitutes discrimination or creates a hostile space, but I do see the point about folks being jerks.
Rangerboy
Its so ridiculous to claim racism, when someone has preferences. Then being straight would mean to be homophobic, because one does not want to be intimate with the same gender, being gay would mean that one is heterophobic, given he or she does not want to be intimate with the opposite gender… Many Asians do not want to be with Caucasians, Indians, Blacks etc….. they are called “sticky rice”. Is this an issue? Many Caucasians prefer Blacks or Asians or others, to Caucasians. Is this racism too? And what about Asians preferring Caucasians? So lets stop this hypocrisy. Racism is not the preference for someone over someone else, racism is the belief that one race is superior to the other. Not wanting to date some of a specific race can be racism IF it is because one considers him or herself superior, but if its just a preference then considering such to be racist is total nonsense!
batesmotel
Sounds like an odd case that’ll end up getting thrown out of court. On the one hand I get the upset that someone rules out an entire race to get to know. The irony being those people are the ones running around screaming about how everyone is a racist or homophobe. But the user isn’t breaking any laws by citing their personal preferences for intimacy. Then again this country has turned into a hyper sensitive PC uproar over every tiny little thing someone says on social media. They’re now turning into a racist police state getting people fired over what they tweet. So yeah, this guy might have a case with Grindr. That seems to be the new norm now. Bully people and companies into submission.
seaguy
I hate to break it to this idiot but that is not going to make guys start responding to his Grindr profile. Even if they censor users who write that they are not into asians those users will still not be into asians. And the “dehumanising” he believes asian users are feeling is all in his head and likely part of a scheme to get settlement from Grindr who may just want to make the suit go away rather than go through a lengthy court battle. I find it ironic that Grindr now has chinese owners too.
gymmuscleboy
@rarediel In case you hadn’t realised, romance is a discriminatory environment AND IT SHOULD BE.
rarediel
romance and racist public profiles are not the same thing.
SFHarry
There is a way for Grindr to set standards that let people state their tastes and preferences without being assholes. You just don’t seem interested in going down that path.
SFHarry
I demand that we let people who don’t have a clue what the issue here is post on this site. Oh it looks like they already do.
electrongreen
Lets been honest about this, The site is for lowlifes and that’s it! So what does anyone expect! It’s all about how someone looks, heir body etc, very sad indeed.
MonkeyMan
Are we also going to outlaw Grindr profiles from saying stuff like “only into hairy guys”, “only into hung guys(8″ and above)”, “only into very muscular/fit”, “only into 40+ guys”, “only into twinks”, “only for black and latinos”, “only for intellectuals(college graduates)”, “looking for chubs and bears, no skinny guys plz”? Because a lot of those descriptors are actively discriminating against me, and since I can’t be everything to everyone, everybody else has to accommodate to me and be attracted to me regardless of what their minds and dicks tell them.
On a more serious note, I personally don’t think there’s any logic to writing out your preferences on your profile since most guys don’t read it anyway and will try to convince you to meet with them anyway if they’re into you.
But labeling someone’s preference as “racist” or “discrimination” isn’t going to get more men interested in you. You can’t change the average gay guy’s brain by dictating what he can or cannot write on his dating profiles. You’ll just get his “discrimination” and “racism” in the dms instead when he ignores you or tells you “no”.
It’s quite sad how so many Asian and black men think that white caucasian gay men don’t ever face any kind of discrimination because of their genetic makeup.
At the end of the day, it all comes down to attractiveness; nobody cares if you’re asian, black, or any other race. If you’re handsome and/or physically fit they’ll do anything to get in bed with you, regardless of your ancestry.
I don’t think that’s fair or how it should be, but that’s the rules for everyone. It’s unfair and shallow but no amount of lawsuits can change that.
MonkeyMan
But this unfairness and shallowness is also what makes so that every single one of us is free to say “no” to anyone for any reason.
I would rather have an unfair and shallow dating/hook up scene with freedom for everyone to do or say what they want, instead of one where everyone pretends to have no preferences and dates people out of moral obligation.
Sexual attraction is biological and innate, it’s not a deep and profound decision based on morality and prudence. Get over it and make the best of it, or fight it and fail.
Kangol
@MonkeyMan, sexual attraction is biological and innate, but it is deeply shaped by the contexts people grow up in, our life experiences, politics, culture, economics, etc. To argue otherwise is not to address the real, lived experiences of the billions of people on this globe.
To give just one example, in societies where male bisexuality is less disfavored, it is more common among men than in ones where there are stricter political and cultural rules around men have sex both with men or women.
Also, in societies or cultures where religion makes a space for same-sexual activity, it is less frowned upon than in ones where it is disfavored or punished. The wealthier the society and the more likely for individual rights and freedoms, the more likely that there will be great sexual freedom and that people can act on a range of their desires, etc.
WindsorOntario
Get ready for a novel fellas because this is gonna be a long one.
I’m glad this has been brought up, especially after Pride because so many guys who’ve just come out think that we’re ‘all in this together’ and other gay men are going to be friends and all these potential lovers or sexual conquests are going to magically appear just because you’re gay and they’re gay. In truth, gay men are THE most bigoted, exclusionary and judgemental people on earth. It’s even worse today because of social media and online porn – after hours and hours of seeing nothing but nude straight college jock websites, now all of us are expected to look like that and be that age. And be successful, highly educated and have lots of money. You are now expected to be a sex object and a success object, or don’t bother talking to anyone. It should come as no surprise as to why the opiate addiction rate has hit our community so hard – we have nobody to go to, we aren’t even allies for each other anymore and everyone’s so rude and quick to reject each other that we’ve all isolated from everyone else. I know Grindr is a hookup app, but for a lot of guys where they live, it’s the only game in town. It’s either meet guys through Grindr or don’t meet anyone at all.
I don’t see the racial exclusion stuff in profiles near me but I DO see the age discrimination and the expectations of you must have money or if you don’t give a impressive answer for what you do for a living it’s silence and these guys are onto someone else. And God help those gay guys who were bullied so badly that they dropped out of high school and never had the courage to go back and wound up in a minimum wage job. You won’t meet anyone now – these guys expect a doctorate and six figure salary. Decide to come out after 40? Don’t bother. Either nobody will talk to you or those who do will want something from you because they use their youth as currency or an expectation that you’re so desperate that you’ll pay them to be with you.
The gay community, like much of society today, has turned into very rotten people. We have zero – ZERO – empathy for one another. We (for the most part) never have kids and never get seriously involved in a relationship so we never developed any skills for caring about other people who we would have a responsibility to care for – we just dump someone and move on. We don’t even see the suicides and addictions in our community could possibly be the result of this.
So here’s what you do guys…develop a thick skin. That’s all you can do. Don’t stop living your life because there are nasty people out there. Don’t put your age in your Grindr profile and don’t tell these people what you do for a living. If Grindr is truly a hookup app it’s none of their business anyways! When I’d meet guys in real life I NEVER asked them their age or what they do. And I met so many great guys of all backgrounds, ages and social status that I probably would’ve overlooked online. It’s just sad to see how many of us are missing out on great guys because of our prejudices.
Heywood Jablowme
@Windsor: You contradict yourself. If you’ve “met so many great guys” in real life, why are you complaining about Grindr? But if you say Grindr “is the only game in town” for some guys, why not tell more about your meeting great guys in real life, and how to go about it?
At any rate Grindr is certainly NOT “the only game in town” no matter where anybody lives. Scruff is everywhere and is much more for the older demographic anyway. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Have you ever even looked at Scruff? And more serious dating sites are accessible everywhere the internet goes (although one might need to travel a ways, to meet up).
Some of your oddly specific complaints can be addressed. 1) As I’ve told you before, there are low-income gay guys all over the place and WE tend to seek each other out. 2) If someone waits until after age 40 to come out — yes, he will have an entirely different experience with gay life than someone who came out in his 20s or younger. And yes, sorry, a guy over 40 or 50 who’s been out since his 20s may not want to deal much with a late bloomer. AND SO WHAT? Guys in that situation will probably need to find other guys in the same situation who understand. After all, there are A LOT of them.
And I’m sorry if it seems like I’m picking on you yet again, but I (and others) have told you a lot of this stuff over and over and over and over but you ignore all of it. Dude, please SEE A THERAPIST and stop maligning the entire gay community like you are doing! It is just not appropriate that you continue to malign the entire gay community like this.
I’m relieved to hear you refer to real life, however, because it’s the FIRST time in all your many complaints about gay men that you’ve given any indication that you ever engage with real life at all.
Kangol
@Heywood Jablowme, excellent response!
Heywood Jablowme
@Kangol: Thanks! Windsor seems to be upset at the internet itself, while misusing it in this weird and self-hating homophobic way.
I was particularly appalled at Windsor saying “Decide to come out after 40? Don’t bother.” !!! – What awful advice! I don’t know who’s reading this, but obviously if someone closeted and over 40 is reading this, that is absolutely horrible advice.
My counter-advice is: Do come out after 40 (or whenever), yes it may not be easy but look for guys who are in a similar situation since there are a lot of them. Also: avoid Grindr, it’s more for the younger set (which is fine for them) but it’s NOT the only game in town. Make the internet work for you, not against you the way Windsor does!
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
BULLSHIT QUEERTY CENSORSHIP AT IT AGAIN!
GetReal101
You can start to find a white boyfriend and stop being a rice queen.
calicroat
Well, in order to be politically correct and not use a race preference, all they have to say is ‘no men under 6 inches’ in their profiles, since penis size is not a protected category. That will then automatically eliminate all members of the specific race mentioned in the article 🙂
dwes09
You somehow think that is funny?
Asian refers to a broad range of cultures and populations, and though average dick size does vary somewhat by race, average is a mathematical function, not a fact regarding all individuals in a group. I have been with enough men to understand the fiction of racial dick size stereotypes, and also understand basic math.
Let me just say that the largest dicks I have seen and sampled, and the smallest i have seen were not on men of the races you assume.
groveboy12
It’s even worse then it seems. Grindr takes the position that it is a violation of its terms of use if you send a message to a user calling out their discrimination on grounds of race, age or otherwise, and Grindr suspends accounts of people who complain to other users about their discrimination. In so doing, Grindr is actively encouraging discrimination, by penalizing those who call it out. The discrimination is often more subtle than overt—“Twinks only”, “Around my age only” etc. Age discrimination is just as pernicious as racial discrimination on Grindr. Grindr openly encourages this when it allows users to post their preferred “tribes”. Thus, Grindr is not immune from liability for discrimination–it openly facilitates and encourages discrimination, It can certainly be held liable (just like the Roommates.com case).
There is no need to post discriminatory preferences—just respond to someone whose picture you like. Broadcasting discriminatory preferences is unnecessary and uncool.
Heywood Jablowme
“Broadcasting discriminatory preferences is unnecessary and uncool.” Yes.
“Age discrimination is just as pernicious as racial discrimination on Grindr.” Oh, come on. “Pernicious”?
I remember being in my 20s (a long time ago lol) and not wanting to deal sexually with anyone older than, say, 5 years older than myself. What’s wrong with that? Maybe as a friend (which I did, often) but not as a sex partner. A much older guy can be scary and intimidating when you’re in your 20s.
ChrisDC
Well, I don’t want to diminish the substance of anyone’s comments — but I’m betting this is one of the more commented upon stories Queerty has seen in a while. This situation totally WEIGHS on people, and it’s not hard to understand why. You look on a social media/hookup site and some of the first messages you see are from people saying they’re not interested in people like you — there’s no more frustrating and/or hurtful thing than looking for love and somebody telling you you’re wasting you’re time.
Having said that — would you rather see that on a Grindr profile or be told that in person? People are upset that Grindr users are trying to filter out people they’re not interested in, but what they’re putting in their profiles puts you in the driver’s seat, too.
I’m not on Gridr, but if I ever create a profile, I think I’ll include something like, “No morons.” Which is delightfully non-specific.
andrew.agee
There’s a very easy way to avoid this nonsense.
My profile says “best match with…X, Y, Z”, as in age range, body type, hiv status, relationship status, kink or fetish, orientation and intimacy preference.
For example, I don’t meet guys in “open relationships, claim to be “bi,” aren’t out or have a “ghost profile” with no real info (because they are afraid of someone recognizing them) and then flood me with headless pictures of their junk…taken in either a hotel room, or a dirty bathroom mirror.
When I get inquiries form people who don’t match my profile, I just delete the message. If they won’t take no for an answer I respond “thanks for your interest, but I don’t see us as a match”
When they HOUND me, THAT’S when the DESERVE a blunt-force response and it gets ugly. “Read the f’ing profile dude” and block them.
I ain’t all that, but I constantly get pawed by folks who see the picture, don’t bother to read my tactfully crafted text, and then go ape-shit when I say no.
I tried to be nice to this one guy who went ballistic when I said I’m not attracted to his ethnic group. Seriously, what do you want, meet up in person so I can reject you to your face?. It’s a hook-up site, and a free one at that. If you want manners, try Christian Mingle.
Life isn’t fair, and if I wouldn’t talk to you in a bar, I’m even less interested in you in a virtual bath house like Grindr.
As Lillian Hellman once said “I Cannot and Will Not Cut My Conscience to Fit This Year’s Fashions.”
All this gibberish about free speech is just nonsense. As a lawyer, let me make this EXPLICIT.
The First Amendment speaks only to GOVERNMENT intervention in expression, so PLEASE stop saying “freedom of speech” There are FEW RULES governing interpersonal communication beyond things like “if you’ve got a rope, I’ve got a tree” ie; inciting violence, crime etc. It’s GRINDR it’s not the Washington Post.
If you ego is so fragile that you can’t take rejection then GET OFF GRINDR!
andrew.agee
When did any for of rejection become a “thing.” If you get “triggered” because I prefer left handed guys over right handed guys, that’s on YOU princess.
https://www.queerty.com/student-explains-plain-terms-exactly-grindr-preferences-actually-racist-20170325
armandov
But saying something about someone’s race is WAY different than saying you like red heads or lefties. Its far more personal and wounding. A more diplomatic way of saying you don’t like Asians would be to say “no thanks” rather than blast a NO ASIANS message and discriminate right out of the gate. As I said before, most people would find it highly insensitive and bigoted to post a sign for Rent on your front lawn that said “Asians need not apply” without even meeting them first.
Granted you aren’t out to have sex w/the renter so its slightly different but I think you know what I mean.
ShowMeGuy
How exactly are you; an Asian, being discriminated against by Grindr? Is Grindr denying Asians access to the Grindr services? Are Asians being charged a higher price for access to Grindr services?
Show me on this teddy bear where Grindr touched you?
Funkybuttlovin
The Advocate spoke with Grindr VP of marketing Peter Sloterdyk, who said “sexual racism is a larger problem within our community and impacts all dating apps, not just Grindr.”
Added Sloterdyk: “[Grindr] prohibits the use of offensive or racist language and encourage our community to report offending profiles through our app’s built-in system.”
tham
I don’t know how this is a “Grindr” issue.
It’s a user issue…and I don’t think you can sue someone for being a dick…
Donston
There are some here complaining about black men being fetishized for their penises. But what about men who are into fat asses? What about guys who are only into certain age demos? What about a decent percentage of bi/pan/fluid/queer identifying men who don’t have passion, attration and romantic feelings towards the entirety of a gender but are rather obsessed with individual body parts?
Once again, where does the line begin when it comes to preference, fetishizing a type and discrimination? It can’t just be made into a race thing because that’s convenient and politically correct. But once again, people need to get out of their feelings when it comes to these silly, shallow hook up apps. Too many people’s self-value is being guided by social media and apps.
lcandela123
Since I am over 60, I am excluded from the majority of hook-up messages. But, so what. Its a big world, and there are plenty that are interested. I agree that it can be hurtful for a person to post things like, “no fats or fems or blacks or Asians or twinks or old guys or Republicans (shudder), etc”. But, it certainly is efficient and reduces time wasting. Or, would it be better to engage someone in a hookup blindly, only to be told, “No thanks.” when they take one look at you. I think that would be a lot more hurtful than them writing an exclusionary post.
I don’t expect this threat of a lawsuit to go anywhere.
lcandela123
Interesting post, thanks for all of the detail.
So, the guy is making a loud noise that he knows will go no where legally, but he is raising awareness of a problem that offends him personally. No sure if he is just wasting everyone’s time, or if it is a good fight.
Your last sentence is partially true: “Their exclusionist behavior is usually based on fear, whether they admit it to themselves or not.” I think a lot of white guys are fearful of black men. But, mostly, the exclusionist behavior is because they aren’t sexually turned on by certain guys.
djmcgamester
We live in a time when Trump is trying to censor media and prevent them from access to White House press conferences. Is this lawsuit the road we really want to go down?
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/trump-wants-to-censor-the-press/542142/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/23/business/media/trump-twitter-block.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_States#Trump_administration
Please, stop bitching about or suing over hurt feelings. No sympathy on my part.
RobF
Stop the P.C. nonsense! It’s a hook up site for sex – if one is looking for a particular type to get off with, why should it be offensive to others? In the present example, Asians aren’t the only ones being excluded. Many profiles list exclusions or turn offs — Move on.