Just because Equality California thinks we need to wait until 2012 to repeal Prop 8 doesn’t mean the activist crowd is falling into line. Since EC’s Geoff Kors and Marc Solomon released its political strategist-fueled “road map” yesterday that involves hunkering down for three years, plenty of other groups have voiced their dissatisfaction — and intent to stick with 2010. Oy!
It’s not just the Courage Campaign’s Rick Jacobs who, listening to members, is still going ahead with 2010. There’s Equality Network’s David Comfort (pictured) — already known for taking shots at Equality California — who’s gone on the attack once again. In an email, Comfort calls EC’s decision to wait “a clear example of an established LGBT organization’s lack of leadership on equal rights. … Unlike the Courage Campaign, they have now decided to go ahead and ignore their membership. Therefore, we can no longer support them as they no longer support nor represent the LGBT community.”
Hot damn!
But Comfort isn’t the only one.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
The indie group Yes! On Equality, spearheaded by Chaz Lowe, also isn’t having this “wait till 2012” business. In a statement, Yes! says: “We are extremely disappointed, but not surprised, by Equality California’s decision today to wait until 2012 to go back the ballot for marriage equality in California, especially since every poll we conducted shows majority support within the LGBT community (including 70 percent of EQCA’s own membership) to put a marriage equality initiative on the ballot next year.”
Okay, but what about all those consultants Equality California hired, telling them it’s better to wait? Blashphemy, says Yes!: “Every indicator and every consultant we’ve met with (including those that ran Barack Obama’s campaign and Winner Mandabach Campaigns, which has run more “yes” ballot initiatives than any other consultant or firm in the country) tells us we an win marriage equality back in 2010.”
Lowe, you’ll recall, claims to be the first to file an official 2010 repeal effort.
While EC has the backing of three gay minority groups (API Equality-LA, HONOR PAC, Barbara Jordan / Bayard Rustin Coalition) with its decision to wait until 2012, it’s clear others are charging along for a repeal two years earlier.
Geoff M
I support a sustained push for equality over a ‘put all your eggs in one basket’ approach. Keep up the pressure, build momentum.
Cam
@Geoff M: Agreed, Going away for three years isn’t the greatest idea.
robertino
We have to keep on pushing for it, not wait three years of wait and see. It needs to be a focal point every day until we get our full rights and…we have to keep up the pressure on our congressmen, representatives, state and local officials, have dialog with minority groups and hold our elected officials feet to the fire. We should not accept delay tactics or excuses any more. Its equality NOW or never, no backing down.
Charlie
regardless of how you feel, at least call them by the right name, it is EQCA, no EC. I suppose you are trying to be cute, and of course you are darling, but it just confuses the issue. No one in C calls them EC.
I am not a member of EQCA, but I would like to point out that they have a long track record of successes in getting bills passed through the legislature.
Sure they lost the big one, and one oh shit wipes out a thousand atta boys, but I also wonder which states have the VOTING public approved gay marriage?
Hell, off hand I am not even sure the VOTING public has approved any kind of domestic partnerships, maybe A has (that’s Arizona, Q) but then they overturned it.
Convincing courts, convincing legislators to approve gay marriage, which EQCA, NCLR and other groups have done is one thing, convincing the voting public, another
Jeffrey Taylor
It’s a no-brainer for EQCA and the establishment consultants. They get another year to live off the money we give them…or at least the money we’re cajoled into giving them by the multitude of paid fund-raisers throughout our neighborhoods in San Francisco and elsewhere in California.
What’s worse is the trained eye can see EQCA is using their PR consultant and press connections to sink the 2010’ers by landing stories in the NY Times and elsewhere and framing the 2010 vs. 2012 story with their perspective and talking points.
That’s fine. People like me who see through the bullshit are coming out of the woodwork; and the wasteful, inept and unnecessarily elitist GLBT organizational culture will die from exposure to sunshine.
Lloyd Baltazar
Exactly. The more waiting time that EQCA endorses—-the more money that will definitely go into their pockets.
We need to keep the fire issue at heart here… Marriage Equality as SOON as possible. Granted, the possibility of losing is probable—-that just means taking it one step at a time. Like what Joe Solmonese said at the Dr. Phil show—we will take this to the California voter everytime until we reach a different outcome [Marriage Equality].
I am SO HAPPY to see that Courage Campaign and the Comfort Group are also supporting the 2010 measure. I will most definitely keep them in my prayers as well as in between my gas and bill payments.
DONT BE A COWARD. The fight is now and the fight is NOW! Go out there and take your rainbow flag out! Go put on your Prada boots and let them know that you want Marriage Equality and it cannot be delayed! Putting this onto a 2012 ballot sends the wrong message—–one that says “Marriage Equality” isn’t THAT important and can be delayed for another THREE FUCKING YEARS.
Hell NO.
Mad Professsah
If you wanna DO something instead of b*tchin and moanin’ about 2010 and 2012 that will actually help us restore marriage equality in California there’s an opportunity if u live in Los Angeles:
Join Equality California, Vote for Equality, and Jordan/Rustin Coalition (along with other groups like Stonewall Democrats, Stonewall Young Democrats, Love Honor Cherish and Equal Roots) on Saturday, August 15th for a voter canvass to win marriage back.
Jordan/Rustin Coalition has been partnering with Vote for Equality and Equality California in a ground-breaking canvass operation in an effort to spark more dialogue about same-sex marriage in communities of color. Specifically, we will be working together to talk to primarily African-American and Latino communities in South Los Angeles about why equal access to marriage is important for everyone.
You will be trained on how to talk to voters one-on-one and do the hard work of changing hearts and minds. The most effective way of persuading voters is through one-on-one face-to-face conversations. This is exactly the work all of us need to do in order to restore marriage equality in California.
Please come out and join us this Saturday. And bring a friend!
VOTER CANVASS
Saturday, August 15th, 10am-3pm
Holy Faith Episcopal Church
260 N Locust St
Inglewood, CA 90301
Lloyd Baltazar
hey.. is there safe parking in that area? i wanna come
Rick Heintz
I’m very happy that these groups are moving forward with equality. Look how people, Gay and Straight, are talking about it across the country. Why should we go back into the closet and wait? We need people to see how important this is and if we wait it will look like we’ve given in. These “self-appointed leaders of the community” that want to wait seem to be taking their cue from George W Bush and are not listening to the community.
InExile
Waiting 3 years is insane, it takes us off the radar screen. We must continue to battle for equality to keep our issues in the media which is exactly how America will get educated on LGBT issues.
For over 40 years politicians have been telling us to wait for our rights, now is not a good time we are told. Well if now now, when?
Sam
Y’all should actually read the EQCA statement. It’s pretty good. They in NO WAY say to wait or go away for three years. What they say is that everyone should be working, volunteering, canvassing, phone banking and, yes, fund raising NOW for a repeal effort that will hit the ballot in 2012.
EQCA is actually proposing that the community get to work today and not quit until they win back marriage in November 2012. If you misread them as saying that they think you should continue to sit on your ass until a few months before the election, you’ll be doing the opposite of what they’re suggesting.
Lloyd Baltazar
SAM,
FINE. What you said is correct EXCEPT EQCA is NOT willing to put the bill for marriage Equality in 2010. EQCA wants to put a bill in 2012. That is the PROBLEM.
Courage Campaign—on the other hand also does the work like EQCA except they are willing to put the bill in 2010. There’s your difference.
Brian
I believe EQCA believes that 2012 the demographics will change sufficiently for us to win a vote. Then they should just pack up their things now.
I’m betting on David.
Sam
@Lloyd Baltazar: Um…okay. I think that’s actually what I said, but whatever.
@Brian: I think they believe that three years will give us the time we need to build coalitions and change the hearts and minds we need to win, while fifteen months will not. But the demographics help too. More young people vote in Presidential elections and more young people support same-sex marriage. It’s hard to argue with those facts.
WTF
“………….tells us we an win marriage equality back in 2010.”
I really wish the grunts here at queerty would proof read their story before they post it for the world to see.
Come on boys, it’s lights, camera, action — get ready for your closeup, or get off the stage!
grrr
WTF
THIS isn’t the first time reading a story here and having it all fall apart because of a typo.
Just get with it girls!!
Tom in Lazybrook
This doesn’t sound to me like a smart move. Why wait until a Presidential election when African Americans are more likely to come out and vote for Obama (and against the referendum). I say 2010.
Trooper
Thank you Rick Jacobs of Courage Campaign and David Comfort, et al of Equality Network, Love Honor Cherish, All or not at all, etc.
These people have BALLS!
Attention EQCA: We are taking our movement back. You can go home now.
QueerToday
A vast coalition of activists and grassroots organizations support 2012 as well.
Lloyd Baltazar
JUSTICE DELAYED IS JUSTICE DENIED! JUSTICE DELAYED IS JUSTICE DENIED! JUSTICE DELAYED IS JUSTICE DENIED! JUSTICE DELAYED IS JUSTICE DENIED! JUSTICE DELAYED IS JUSTICE DENIED! JUSTICE DELAYED IS JUSTICE DENIED! JUSTICE DELAYED IS JUSTICE DENIED! JUSTICE DELAYED IS JUSTICE DENIED! JUSTICE DELAYED IS JUSTICE DENIED! JUSTICE DELAYED IS JUSTICE DENIED! JUSTICE DELAYED IS JUSTICE DENIED! JUSTICE DELAYED IS JUSTICE DENIED!
FIGHT TO REPEAL PROP 8 IN 2010!!!!! MARRIAGE EQUALITY FOR ALL ASAP!
Brian
I didn’t find Equality Network’s “Plan to Win.” Where’s the Plan David?
Brian
@Sam: Waiting for older “religious” people to DIE is not a Plan it is an observation. Thankfully, younger people are not infected with religion and yeah it helps, but EQCA didn’t claim any “plan” to undo our being “made wrong” by religion. They’re pussies. If we don’t reject the biblical “lies” about homosexuals we will never be equal – same sex marriage or not.
Daniel
California needs to spend three years on local organizing. Contrary to what any group claims, California simply does NOT have that many GLBT-allied groups. For a state with 35 million residents, it should have proportionately more groups than smaller states but it does not because tons of Californians simply thought their state was “progressive” and never bothered to actually do the non-glamorous grunt work to get organized decently. Courage Campaign and the others are not dealing with reality. Like many johnny-come-lately efforts, they want immediate results without doing the basic work. Get back to the dirt and build up a stronger foundation of grassroots organizations throughout California. Look at the counties that do not even have a single group! Grow up and get to work. And that goes for any state or province on Earth.
Andrew
@Daniel: It’s not about activists or groups Daniel, it’s about voters. EQCA pointed to “waiting for the older religiously-infected people” to die. Equality Network seems to suggest changing minds instead – essentially “saving” some of the infected ones with truth and honesty.
What do you suggest we need to spend 3 years “organizing?” People vote their “beliefs.” That’s the problem – primarily “religious” beliefs.
David Comfort
I am starting to sound like a broken record, but my logic is as
follows:
1) The LGBTQ community is clearly motivated by efforts to achieve marriage equality, as demonstrated by the large demonstrations and numerous grassroots groups which have sprung up in the aftermath of Prop 8.
2) There are a lot of developments across the country which are “softening up” the voter base in its acceptance of same-sex marriage.
3) I have run several different models of how different voting blocs could potentially vote in 2010 and 2012, based on the Prop 8 and Prop 22 results. And I have analyzed every poll on marriage equality I could get ahold of. FYI, I am not a political scientist (which I think is a contradiction in terms), but I have a doctorate in computational biology from Oxford University and a BS in Mechanical Engineering. I will be the first to admit that it will be very challenging to win an affirmative marriage equality ballot initiative based on the polling results or Prop 8 results, either in 2010 or 2012. My projections show that it would be difficult even in 2012.
4) My main premise for 2010 is based upon the impact that social
movements have on social mores and political will.
For instance, “there is qualitative, historical evidence that the
mobilization of the civil rights movement wrought numerous changes in American politics, society, and policy (Garrow 1978; McAdam 1982; Button 1989; Morris 1993; Andrews 1997).” – [from ‘Did the Civil Rights Movement Have a Direct Impact on Public Policy? Evidence from the Passage of State Fair Housing Laws, 1959-1965*’]
This study found that “the mobilization of the civil rights movement, as measured by the percentage of African Americans in a state belonging to the NAACP, is positively related to the passage of fair housing laws, even when controlling for other factors associated with policy innovation. This includes a measure of public opinion regarding housing integration.”
In other words, the mobilization of the civil rights movement helped to bring about positive public policy changes, adjusting for changes in public opinion. So the opinions of both legislators and citizens (voters) were affected by the mobilization of civil rights organizations and helped to bring about changes in law, policy and opinion.
Therefore, if we can sustain a grassroots LGBT movement for the next year or more, then the mobilization of grassroots can play a critical role in a ballot initiative campaign, by positively affecting voter opinion in any number of ways. The civil rights movement’s tactics were manifold, but consisted primarily of nonviolent direct actions and civil disobedience. We must be open to any number of tactics in the campaign. Sharing the story of self is just one of a whole suite of tactics which we should employ. Let us combine the best practices of community organizing as well nonviolent direct action, and of course online organizing, media advocacy, etc.
If we look back on the history of social movements, they all have a motive force. The LGBT movement is driven by the fight for marriage equality at this moment. The trigger was the passage of Prop 8. In order for the grassroots movement to sustain and nurture itself, it mush have a clearly defined goal that is not too distant. I can tell you after nine months of relentless organizing and dozens and dozens of meetings, it is wishful thinking to believe that the grassroots movement can sustain itself for another three years. We would lose the
momentum and the LGTBQ grassroots movement would fizzle out. And then the “edge” and passion that the grassroots would bring to a campaign would be lost, which could have a significant impact on public opinion and the eventual vote tally.
So that is why I am going forward with a 2010 ballot initiative.
Freedom is constant struggle…
Andrew
@David Comfort: I’m not sure the blanket comparisons to civil rights movements are appropriate. Blacks were very clearly “oppressed,” gays are “hated.” There is a big difference – the hatred of gays flows from “religious beliefs.” That’s why EQCA simply says “in 2012 enough of the “mostly religious” older people will have “passed away,” and newer, younger “non-religious” voters will arrive. Their math works.
The problem is gays will not achieve “equality” until the “religious beliefs” are extinguished. That means fight the beliefs, not the believers.
Your aggressive (perhaps courageous) plan relies on “convincing” voters that it is “fair” to provide marriage equality. If only the “fairness card” would trump the “religious card,” but it hasn’t yet.
I suggest that you consider “rejecting the biblical lies” about homosexuality with the reminder that religion did eventually reject the previous biblical lies about “slavery.” That lead to the civil rights victories you alluded to. An end to the “religious” branding of homosexuals as wrong, sinners and deviant is the only way to achieve true equality.
Homosexuals are NOT WRONG – Religion is, again. End the lie.
Daniel
It’s the local groups that do the actual outreach to change the hearts and minds of voters. It’s the local groups that provide support to glbt people coming out of the closet, which helps change hearts and minds. It’s the local groups that provide the voices of equality that address issues of fundamental fairness and justice. It’s the local groups that organize religious leaders to speak on behalf of justice and equality. It’s the local groups that organize up friendly businesses to help pay for outreach campaigns to change hearts and minds. It’s the local groups that produce the volunteers rather than paid staff who seek only to create a climate where they keep getting paid. Ultimately the goal of any equality group should be to put itself out of business by achieving equality. Local groups produce the volunteers to do the grunt work that no state group can ever achieve without them. A local message from local people speaking about equality is far more effective than any “on-high” message about equality from a state or national group.
Andrew, your apparent obsession with religion is tilting at windmills because there are plenty of religious people who uphold human rights of gay people every single day. You are pitting the old argument of religion vs. gay people which in the current world doesn’t hold water. It is now “people who misuse religion to violate other people’s human rights” vs. “people who do not.”
Mark C.
@Daniel: You need to look that up Daniel – your “religions” still make homosexuality wrong, sinful and deviant. Not a single religion has denounced the anti-homosexual doctrine or scripture. Some have formally stated they no longer support and promote slavery, but not a single “official” word about homosexuals.
It isn’t enough to “welcome gays and lesbians” while maintaining the official doctrine that has defined homosexuals for 2,000 years. Do you agree with the official doctrine?
Your support of the religious lies means you sanction the hate and discrimination. If your religion has made so much progress, why haven’t they made a formal statement about the lies about homosexuals?
Please find that for us. Hurry. Every day 4-5 young gays commit suicide because of religious doctrine making them wrong and defective. Changing that will save lives.
Sam
@Brian: I think we’re in agreement. The EQCA plan doesn’t seem to be solely about “waiting” for people to die though (unless all those organizers they’ve hired are actually the “death panels” Scareya Palin is talking about). They’ve sunk a bunch of their money into a grassroots organizing campaign which is meant to change people’s minds one at a time. If it were solely them waiting for demographics to change, I’d say ditch it.
@Andrew: EQCA has actually hired a team of organizers to do exactly that: change people’s minds. I haven’t seen Equality Network doing any of that work yet.
Now, if you’re arguing that Equality Network can be more effective in changing people’s minds than EQCA, then I might agree with you. EQCA already proved in the Prop 8 election that they’re pretty damn bad at it.
So if Equality Network wants to do the hard work of organizing and changing hearts and minds, one-on-one, I’d say support them. But if they’re going to focus all their effort on getting something on the ballot and running ineffective, impersonal TV ads, I’d say we just did that in 2008 and it’s not going to work any better two years later.
Andrew
@Sam: I don’t know which group is more effective, but I am suggesting we, as homosexuals, must reject the lies about homosexuals. The young people and the open-minded people understand that.
We could even get marriage back in CA, but we wouldn’t be “equal.” We need to extinguish those beliefs to become equal. Straight people have not been Biblically “branded” as “wrong, sinful and deviant.” We have. That branding has made it impossible for us to be “equal.” That’s why we MUST extinguish those beliefs, very much the same way MLK did with slavery.
Sam
@Andrew: What are you suggesting? Because if you’re suggesting that LGBT folk wage an all barrels attack religion, I’m not sure that’s going to help in the short term. In fact, I’m pretty sure it will hurt us. There are a lot more religious people than gay people, and being attacked doesn’t change anyone’s mind. And even some of our supporters get turned off when we attack religion.
NOW, if you’re suggesting one-on-one conversations where we counter the ideas people have gotten from religion, media campaigns where we show that we’re just like everyone else, except we get discriminated against for who we are, and the like, I think that will work.
Actually, it has worked. I really believe we wouldn’t be as far along as we are today were it not for the entertainment media – from Ellen to Will & Grace to Six Feet Under to Brothers & Sisters – that we’re just like everyone else and that all the lies they’ve heard about us are wrong. But that happened through a message of “look at me, I’m not what you’ve been taught that I am,” not a message of “what you believe is all lies and you’re wrong for believing it.”
Sam
That’s “attack on religion” and “and their message that we’re just like everyone else…”
Sheesh. Maybe I should proofread before I hit submit.
Andrew
@Sam: You should study the dynamics of “believers.” Less than 1/3 believe it strongly. It not an attack to stand up for ourselves. Unless, you believe we are “wrong, sinful and deviant.” In order to have equality, those beliefs must be extinguished. 2/3 of the public is at or near agreeing with that – the last third will never change their minds. That group is over 50 years old and will die soon enough.
So, I don’t get the use of the word “attack.” We are growing up as a society and understanding that religion isn’t very important for the majority of people.
Andrew
@Sam: I understand being hesitant to take a stand because Religion has been “taboo” for many years. What’s interesting is that Religion itself made it taboo because they know conversation or challenge isn’t good for it’s survival.
Here’s an interesting study to look at: http://www.publicreligion.org/research/?id=208
It’s a survey of Protestant clergy and I believe their congregations are probably much like them: 30% strongly against gays, 30% strongly for gays and the big “uncertain middle” at 40%. It seems it is time for religion to say “oops, we made a mistake” and take back the lie about homosexuals – they did it for slavery.
Sam
@Andrew: “It not an attack to stand up for ourselves. Unless, you believe we are ‘wrong, sinful and deviant.'”
I think we mostly agree, but I think this is a false dichotomy. You can stand up for yourself without attacking someone’s religion and you don’t have to believe that gay folks are “sinful” to do so. Examples:
Attack: “Your religion tells lies about gay people and you’re an idiot for believing it.”
Non-attack: “Whatever your religion says, my partner and I face the same challenges, pay the same taxes and live the same lives you do, but we don’t get the same rights. Does that seem fair?”
I think we change more minds with the second version.
And I’m not sure that the study you site about “belief” necessarily is the same thing as saying that religion is not important to the majority of people. I know that there’s a HUGE segment of “religious” folk in this country who don’t necessarily agree with everything their church says, but still find being part of their church VERY important. It’s that 40% middle I’m talking about here…they’d probably be fine with disagreeing with their church on gay people, but if you ATTACK their church directly (instead of just countering the anti-gay message), they’re going to get defensive.
Andrew
@Sam: You can’t rationalize our being “wrong” Sam. To “accept” religion without conversation is to admit to being “wrong, sinful and deviant.”
The only reason people hate us is Religion. Most religious people are willing to end that hate – but, we need to give them that opportunity.
It is a shame that most gay people are so reluctant to “offend” anyone, when we have been defined as the most offensive people on earth. We need to stop allowing anyone (but ourselves) define us.
We’re not wrong, we’re beautiful and should be equal.
Andrew
@Sam: Was it okay for religion to endorse slavery and even promote it for 4,000 years? Slavery would have ended much sooner if not for religion. People finally spoke up. MLK called it a “lie.” We ended that lie. Homosexuals are next.
There is no reason for us to “tolerate” the lies about us – none.
Andrew
@Andrew: Plus, a lot of my Jewish friends enjoy a good cheeseburger. Everything changes. It’s up to us.
I’m going out, but we’ll exchange more. Have fun. You’re Not Wrong.
Kyle
GOing to the ballot in 2010 is STUPID!!! Only old people vote in mid term elections, no young people. AS CHARMING AS 2010 MAY SOUND, OLD PEOPLE WILL VOTE TO TAKE AWAY OUR RIGHTS AGAIN AND ANOTHER DEFEAT AT THE POLLS WILL GIVE OUR ENEMIES MORE STUFF TO WORK WITH AGAINST US!
2012 IS THE MOST PRACTICAL.
Sam
@Andrew: I don’t understand your last three replies. I haven’t said anything about being “wrong.” All I’m saying is that attacking religion as a method to get religious people to accept gay people doesn’t sound like the best strategy to change minds.
Also re: MLK – Huh? MLK was a minister and a deeply religious man. Slavery was long gone by the time he was doing his work. I’m not sure I get how any of that applies here.
Andrew
@Sam: MLK attacked the “lie” about slavery in the Bible and about people of color (Sin of Ham and Curse of Canaan). I can get you a link of his speech.
The majority of people in the US (and World) believe homosexuals are “wrong.” They got that belief from religion. It is a lie (like slavery) and must be rejected. People can believe whatever the want – but as an institution, we cannot allow religion to continue to make us “wrong, sinful and deviant.” That is how we have been defined and we need to stop it. We need to re-define ourselves. We must end the stigma of being a homosexual – we got that from religion.
If we don’t reject the biblical (religious) lie about homosexuals, people will continue to make us “wrong.” As long as we’re wrong, we will not have equality.
Andrew
@Sam: We won’t win any votes (gays and lesbians have NEVER won a popular vote) until we change their minds. In their mind are those religious beliefs, those lies. We must fight the beliefs.
Andrew
@Kyle: Old people? You mean Old “religious” people. They are the ones that have been taught that your are no good. Religion taught them that.
Brian
@David Comfort: Is Equality Network registered with the State of California? I couldn’t find any documentation on your website.
Brian
Don’t be Cleve-ish David. We need authentic efforts.
ThinkRealHard
Given the mess in California about fundraising I think it is imperative that David Comfort share financials and any official registration for his effort. I’m not suggesting he is a Cleve Jones, but we need to know the group is legit.