Clueless. That’s the only explanation for why President Obama not only actively promotes the Defense of Marriage Act, but defends its implementation at all costs. With utter stupidity, and amidst calls from groups like the ACLU and HRC to immediately reverse course, the Obama administration claimed it’s only sticking to standard operating procedure. He should be ashamed.
The White House today responded to criticism: “As it generally does with existing statutes, the Justice Department is defending the law on the books in court. The President has said he wants to see a legislative repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act because it prevents LGBT couples from being granted equal rights and benefits. However, until Congress passes legislation repealing the law, the administration will continue to defend the statute when it is challenged in the justice system.”
Except it’s really this simple: How can Obama tell us he’s for the repeal of DOMA, but then have his charges defend that same policy?
If he really wants a legislative repeal of the law, why is he wasting government resources — literally, the tax dollars of gay and straight Americans — continuing to lobby the courts to follow DOMA? The president has not made a single tangible action to have DOMA repealed. The Democratic-controlled Congress, which Obama says is responsible for DOMA’s deletion, is doing nothing on the matter.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
Before President Bill Clinton signed DOMA into law and while Congress listened to testimony from opponents and supporters, the Clinton White House released a statement defending the bill. It was a terrible, heart-wrenching kick in the teeth, and it should have ashamed Clinton.
President Obama just joined that list of unremarkable presidents lobbying for discrimination.
The only reason we can think of that Obama would have the Department of Justice lobby on behalf of DOMA in Smelt v. United States is to keep the law’s fate out of the hands of the court system. That might be a worthwhile strategy. But the White House is not telling us about that plan, if it even exists. And if that’s their ploy, they should share it with the public. And yet, if that scenario were really true, and Obama really was serious about repealing DOMA via Congress, wouldn’t he be simultaneously lobbying Congress to, uh, do that? No wonder WhiteHouse.gov no longer even acknowledges Obama’s supposed support for DOMA’s repeal.
The man is a liar, and his actions are despicable. He’s risked every ounce of credibility among gay Americans. The man who championed hope has given us every reason to lose it.
Sceth
This sort of rhetoric needs to go around.
He needs to be pressured and punished.
Ian
So we should vote for Sarah Palin next time around?
TANK
@Ian:
At least that bigoted bitch is honest.
TANK
@TANK:
about being a bigot…the corruption as mayor, not so much…or gov…or how she got the governorship (only in alaska, tie with illinois politics for corruption).
Mark in Colorado
How typical, it’s either them or us. White or black. Pendejos!
It’s over. He crossed the line.
My partner of 24 yrs. and I each gave him $1200 to get elected.
We defended him to people who still can’t stand him.
Worst of all–we voted for him.
Never again.
Adolf Hitler could be reincarnated running against the Chosen One in 2012, knowing that we would die, and we would still NOT vote for Obama.
Good riddance YOU PIECE OF SHIT OBAMA. Or is that POTUS?
D-Sun
Oh, the audacity of hope.
I wonder what his excuse will be come 2012 when he decides he wants those gay votes and donation dollars again…
Sandogg
I really don’t understand why anybody is outraged now since the writing was on the wall long before he got elected. He only started pandering to gays toward the end of the campaign. Hillary was much more honest and would have been better. But no, everybody drank his Kool-Aid and jumped on his speeding train, and bowing to the mantra of “change”, give me a fucking break.
At the end, we had no choice but to vote for him. We literally ate shit for him, and the taste has not gone away, and I’m not expecting it to anytime soon.
Sandogg
@D-Sun: so if he’s up against Palin, then what?
Chitown Kev
@ben:
While I agree with much of what you say, have you even read the brief for dismissal by the Justice Department?
I hadn’t this morning but now I have now.
Read that horribly homophobic language in that brief THEN come back and tell me about the horrible, horrible language in this article.
Actually, the headline could have read “The Obama DOJ bitch slapped Gay America” or “The Obama DOJ Dry Fucked Gay America”
Read that DOJ dismissal brief and then come back here and tell me whether queerty should be writing “healing” words.
TANK
Third party. Even if the bitch gets elected, can’t be worse than this.
TANK
@ben:
Religious faith dies hard in the individual…some people look to political figures or parties to fill the void that once was occupied by their religious fervor.
TANK
@TANK:
Or, they worship their parties like they do their gods.
D-Sun
@Sandogg:
I’ll vote for a third party, if at all.
Then I’ll just hope there’s something to that Mayan, 21/12/12, end of the world theory.
James Davis
@Sandogg,
Thing is you did have a choice. I was a supporter and campaigned hard for Hillary Clinton only to see the best candidate be defeated by back room deals and a media who worshiped at the feat of Obama. When I took into account how little trust I had for Obama on any issue I made a choice that I know isn’t a popular one and voted for McCain. Considering Obama has continued many of the Bush policies, and in many was is spending us into another crisis I feel even more justified in my vote. McCain would have done less damage than Obama and in 4 years would have paved the way for a better democratic candidate, one who doesn’t pretend to be a friend of the LGBT community.
@Ben stop playing the race card, fact of the matter is the criticism of Obama is warranted. If he makes good on his promises (which is far from likely) I’ll be the first to stand up and say I was wrong about the man, but until then stop giving the man a free pass. By giving him a free pass you are perpetuating a racism of your own.
Hold true to principal not the person.
Luke
i’m Australian and so goddman saddened but what hes doing, at least with the Repulicans yous know where yous stand and they dont lie “str8 to ur faces”
but i guess in the end Obama is the lesser of 2 Evils…. but an Evil none-the-less”
Chitown Kev
@TANK:
TAnk, I was on here earlier this morning not so much arguing for Obama but stating that we really need to get on Congress’s ass (I haven’t changed my opinion on that).
I couldn’t even skim through the brief cause I don’t have the right version of Adobe on my desktop at work.
Then I began reading the dismissal brief.
If Ben reads that brief, he should be hopping mad. Then again, maybe he likes to be dry fucked, I don’t know.
At this point, I will not vote for any Democrat for anything. And I mean, I want to know how the man running for dog catcher feels about canine same-sex marriage equality before he gets my vote. Or whatever LGBT issues are applicable to my jurisdiction (I do live in an extremely liberal area).
TANK
If Ben reads that brief, he should be hopping mad. Then again, maybe he likes to be dry fucked, I don’t know.
it’s the log cabin effect. DOn’t think gay democrats are immune to that kind of thing.
MIlton Friedman was asked what his political affiliation was once, and he said something like “whatever’s fashionable”. Policy, not party.
Prof. Donald Gaudard
The DOJ response to the complaint goes beyond the pale. This is the 2nd time the Smelt case has been filed. Smelt and his partner were not married when they filed the first case. The first time, it was dismissed for failure to state a claim and for lack of standing. Smelt then appealed it to the 9th circuit court of appeals where it was again dismissed for failure to state a claim and for lack of standing.
Smelt and his partner then got married and filed essentially the same case in the California courts. The government moved it to the federal courts where it belonged and where it is now. However, it is the same case with the same pleadings. The only difference is that Smelt & his partner are now suing the US Government. A first year law student knows that the US Government cannot be sued by a citizen unless the government consents to be sued, and here the government has not consented.
The case is so poorly pleaded that any first year law student would dismiss it in a New York minute. The only reason Smelt is filing it is because he got permission from the California courts to waive the fees, so he doesn’t have to pay for anything.
HOWEVER, that does not excuse the DOJ from attacking gay marriages the way it does in the pleadings. They simply could have argued the lack of standing and the lack of governmental consent. But they went way beyond this and attacked gay marriages, saying among other things, that denying gay marriages would help protect scarce government resources.
So, the DOJ needs to be attacked, but the Smelt case is not one you would want to defend because it is indefensible on any grounds. Professor of Law Emeritus Don Gaudard
Arthur
Thing is, when the primaries were on, Obama was better than Hillary on gay issues. Obama supported a full repeal of DOMA, Hillary did not. Hillary was better on other issues, and a lot of us supported Obama precisely because of his civil rights stance for gays.
That’s what makes this such a betrayal.
Some perspective is in order. Democrats are still better than Republicans. But not one penny more until we get some results, some successful action on DADT, on DOMA repeal, etc. And when I tell fundraises to fuck off, they’re gonna get an earful on WHY I’m not donating.
The Gay Numbers
What would be really cool and i just thought of it- is if sites like Queerty, Pam’s hOuse of blend, towleroad, etc would get together to start a ki nd of act blue for gay rights and organizing as a non profit effort. Have ever thought of using your audience to push for this sort of thing?
Arthur
@Ian: No, we shouldn’t. But neither should we be allow ourselves to be treated as an ATM.
rhydderch
@ben: STFU! Your was the first comment that I read that was negative and typically you go right for the race card. This isn’t about race it’s about OUR RIGHTS but you are obviously so blinded by the fact that Obama is black, he could direct your ass to jump off the GG Bridge and without doubt you’d buy a plane ticket to SF within the hour. Wake the f!@#K dude. Obama doesn’t give a shit about the gay community. He’s waiting for Congress to pass legislation? Well I’m glad be had an excuse ready to pull out of his ass! This asshole has shit on the gay community and I will vote for Grand Wizard of the KKK before that jerkoff lying piece of shit gets my vote or my money again!
Chitown Kev
@Prof. Donald Gaudard:
Thank you, Professor Don.
I think you made another point (maybe not here) that there wasn’t a claim for spousal benefits in this case, as is the case of the Massachusetts DOMA cases. I actually read much of that brief the other night and reading some of the concrete issues of marriage inequality in that brief made me want to tear up some shit for a time.
I’m single (hell I don’t even have a boyfriend) but reading those cases really made it concrete for me just how serious this is and how people’s lives are affected.
rhydderch
so i smoked a bowl and now i’m alot calmer. that post was riddled with errors, i’m just pissed. i voted for the obama and with this and that carrie prejean b.s. describing gay as if we’re subhuman has me enraged lately.
p.s.
ben still sucks
geoff
Never again. I’m going Republican in 2012. They hate me it’s true, but just as much as Obama. At least with them, my partner and I will save some money(yes, we’re those horrible people that have a lot of it for all you socialists out there). We can at least have papers drawn up to protect ourselves. obama is not going to do a fucking thing to help us, so we’re going to do everything to help ourselves and not give a fucking dime to his re-election and instead give it to our lawyers. They’ll help us way more than that fucking sellout.
Prof. Donald Gaudard
At the end of May, Attorneys Ted Olsen & David Boies filed a challenge in federal court to Prop 8, alleging that Prop 8 is a denial of the federal equal protection clause and a denial of federal due process. They sued the governor (Arnold Schwarzenegger), the attorney general (Jerry Brown), and a number of state officers. They filed a complaint and also a request for a temporary injunction to prohibit the state officials from enacting Prop 8 until the federal case is decided.
Last night, AG Jerry Brown filed a response to the injunction stating that it should not be granted because, if gay people got married and then Prop 8 was upheld in the federal courts, the “newly wed” gays would be in limbo. I have mixed feeling about this because one of the requirements for granting an injunction is that it is likely you will prevail on the complaint.
About an hour ago Equality California reported that AG Jerry Brown filed his response to the complaint in which he argued in favor of overturning Prop 8 on equal protection and due process grounds. The AG’s paper work is not yet available on line, but I suspect that it will be available tomorrow or the next day. If this is true, it will be really beneficial to the arguments Olsen & Boies make at trial on the complaint.
The governor is supposed to file his response soon according to Equality California.
Professor of Law Emeritus Don Gaudard
Prof. Donald Gaudard
@Chitown Kev: Kev, I would hope that as many people as possible read the Gill v. Office of Personnel Management case filed by the Gay and Lesbian Advocates and Defenders (GLAD) in Massachusetts. It really gives you a concrete idea of what all is involved in the gay marriage cases. It’s not simply a matter of getting married, but is much more comprehensive than that. In addition, it shows you how much work is involved in getting the proper plaintiffs, applying for the various federal benefits, keeping track of the various federal denials, etc. It is extremely well written in my opinion.
The Gill case can be found at:
http://www.domawatch.org/cases/1stcircuit/GillvOPM/gill-complaint-03-03-09.pdf
Don
Shawn
Yikes, people please don’t vote for Palin, if she’s the 2012 GOP candidate, just because of Obama’s actions! She’s certifiably scary. She’s like Serena Joy from “The Handmaid’s Tale” by Margaret Atwood! (For those who haven’t read it, think happy-smiley, EVIL queen-bee lady against women.)
We have a much better chance of changing things state-wide with a democratic leadership than a republican one, even with a President who has essentially sold us out.
Yes, I’m very, very disappointed in Obama. I feel betrayed, but we’re making inroads state by state. Things are changing.
We don’t have to give him any more of our money for his campaign; we can redirect our efforts to those senate, house, local candidates who are on our side.
All is not lost!
JasonT
“This case does not call upon the Court to pass judgment, however, on the legal or moral right
of same-sex couples, such as plaintiffs here, to be married. Plaintiffs are married, and their
challenge to the federal Defense of Marriage Act (“DOMA”) poses a different set of questions:
whether by virtue of their marital status they are constitutionally entitled to acknowledgment of their
union by States that do not recognize same-sex marriage, and whether they are similarly entitled to
certain federal benefits. Under the law binding on this Court, the answer to these questions must be
no”.
Change We Can Believe In !!
Chitown Kev
@Shawn:
Yeah, plus the Divine (not!) Miss Sarah has some fucked up looking redneck hammertoes that she had all the ghetto nerve of painting designs on as if she was 19 years old and in the hood. I saw that shit on huff post.
Not that I was looking and all but the shit was funny!
ben
@Chitown Kev: yeah i skimmed it earlier and i get it. i guess i was being inarticulate earlier. i’m not trying to make excuses for homophobia in this country or in the government. it’s obviously there. there’s just something about the language, the ‘obama is shitting on th gays” rhetoric, that feels unnecessary and sensational for all the wrong reasons. like fox news style. but like you said, if there could just be a much more honest discussion about the doj and the government and just how widespread this sort of blatant homophobia is, how intrinsically its woven into the current constitution i think we might be able to have an overall better dialogue about what to do next. rather than feel like victims of someone who’s inaction so far is speaking more than his actions.
but the doj brief sucks. i get that. the thing is, that policy has been around for awhile. like since 1996, right? so has everyone been this angry for the past 13 years? because that’s possible. and maybe its just me,but for whatever reason i’ve perceived this spike in anger etc since the day obama was elected and prop 8 was passed. again this is just me.
there’s an interesting take on this at the advocate : http://advocate.com/news_detail_ektid89851.asp that i think manages to mostly examine the policies involved rather than attack this one person.
sadly the comments devolve into more hate speech.
Nietzsche
“What upsets me is not that you lied to me, but that from now on I can no longer believe you.” Nietzsche.
ben
@Chitown Kev: oh and i’m reading the whole thing now. thanks.
Republican
I didn’t vote for the man. Sorry that some of you feel betrayed. I pretty much figured this would happen, so I voted on other issues. (Yes, I’m one of those eeeeevil conservatives.)
ben
Vote 3rd party in 2012.
Hillary 2012 - We Told You So
Barack Obama’s record on gay rights so far: disturbing, unsound, false, discriminatory, damaging, nonsensical. Before today you could argue that the Obama administration was too busy with the economy and the war and health care to focus on making good on his campaign promises to gays and lesbians, that Obama simply didn’t have the time to take up our issues. But you can’t make that argument anymore. The Obama administration has the time to take up gay rights issues—but only, it seems, to do harm.
niles
You know – I really would like to see his birth certificate now.
hand
that’s it. unless DADT and DOMA are repealed by 2012, obama better not pretend he gives one damn about gay rights.
i’ll vote republican, i’ll vote third-party. but i am not voting democrat.
Chitown Kev
@ben:
Ben, stop making excuses for Obama.
Look at my name, first of all. I probably know this politician better than you.
Obama did not go to a gay bashing church, first of all. His spiritual mentor has married same-sex couples.
But the Donnie McClurkin shit, do you know I have gone back and looked at some of those McClurkin videos on youtube and the church was saying Amen! time after time after time that bitch gay bashed. That was disgusting.
Mind you, I was raised in the black church.
Yes, Obama was opposed to Prop 8 but how many times did you hear that. Compare that to the number of times he said something to the effect, “In accordance with my personal and religious beliefs, I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.”
And then at Rick Warren’s church, “Gawd was in the Mix”
Obama conflated his religious beliefs with the civil institution of marriage.
And Yes On 8 used those statements. Granted, the No On 8 campaign was a piece of shit campaign, Obama gay baited to the most homophobic elements of the black church. While the vote of black Californians wasn’t decisive, it was a pretty important part of a coalition of votes that put Prop 8 over the top and, eliminated a RIGHT for marriage equality that the California Supreme Court found.
And Obama chose that same fat ass pastor who equated our relationships to pedophilia and incest and accorded him a place of honor at the inauguration. Oh, and that pastor cut a Yes On 8 ad too.
But the gay community is not supposed to be angry at Obama, right? And since then; silence and then these horrible piece of homophobia.
Oh, and 70% of the gay community voted for Obama?
But the gay community is not supposed to be angry, right?
And, yeah, I would say that much of it is anger at Clinton, go check out some of the Bill Clinton threads on gay blogs.
Hillary is a woman, of course, and we do love our long-suffering divas.
ben
@Chitown Kev: okay. this isn’t my playground and i don’t know the rules.
be angry. you probably do know this politician better than me. and everything else. seriously.
Inlookout
Come 2012, if we still have DOMA. If we still have DADT… We won’t vote Republican. We won’t be voting at all. We’ll be gone. Done.
Chitown Kev
@ben:
Please, don’t take it the way you seem to be taking it.
Look is there a racial element in it? Sure. But it’s pretty small compared to some of the other stuff I am hearing.
I mean, Obama has actually done things that have harmed black communities (cut funding for HBCU’s and needle exchange programs to name 2). But all black folks seem to be enamoured with is that he’s President. That’s true of me too, to a small extent, but i am a stickler for you have to accept ALL of me, not simply the parts that you want.
Mind you, I didn’t vote for Clinton in 1996 (the first black president) behind DOMA and I voted Green in 2000.
Obama just lost my vote with this shit. I can see beyond the color of skin. Can you?
vernonvanderbilt
When Obama invited Rick Warren to pray at the inauguration, I was miffed. When he maintained a long, long silence on DADT, I was vexed. When he continued to ignore our complaints, I was irked. When he made light of our situation by cracking jokes, I was peeved. When he had the gall to officially proclaim June as Gay Pride Month in spite of his utter indifference to our plight, I was pissed. But oh…when I read that DoJ brief…
I am fucking enraged.
I’m done. If I could take back my vote for that piece of shit, I would in a heartbeat. Seriously, fuck Barack Obama and fuck his piddly-ass “hope and change” bullshit. Barack Obama can lick my goddamned asshole. If he doesn’t make a serious turnaround and get some tangible shit done before 2012, not to mention offer the GLBT community a public apology for being a dick, I am so going third party. Hell will freeze over before I ever vote republican, but I’ll go with the Greens or the Socialists or the Free Carrots for Everyone parties.
Fuck him. Just fuck him, fuck his wife, fuck her sleeveless dresses, fuck their spawn, fuck the fucking dog, fuck ’em all. If he wants to spit on us and shove us into a hole while kissing Muslim ass all the live-long day, then he can get another four years without any help from me.
Fucker.
M
I’m pretty sure Jim Crow Laws were in the book as well, I wonder if he would have defended those as well.
Bob
The executive branch has a duty to enforce every law on the books. Even if it is DOMA. Stop your fucking bitching. There are more important issues in play right now and the president can’t fix everything at once.
Chitown Kev
@ben:
This is the best comment in that Advocate article.
“Where is our congressional leadership on LGBT issues? I know its fun to bash the president, but I have seen little to no anger directed at our other elected officials who have not done anything for us either. Where is the DOMA repeal? Or the DADT repeal? Or the trans inclusive ENDA? The Mathew Shepard Act had some momentum, but its disappeared into a black hole. Yes, its time for Obama to put up or shut up. But its also time for congress to grow a pair and pass legislation that the president had publicly stated he would sign. its not only the White House, but Congress bears equal responsibility for inaction. Shame on Pelosi, Reed, and the others who haven’t done anything either.”
And if you think this is vitriol, ben, some of the things said in the black community in my neck of the woods was even worse.
http://www.chicagoreader.com/obama/000317/
“a white man in blackface” is probably the most incendiary phrase in there but it’s not the most incendiary thing that I’ve heard said about him in the black community either.
The RED FLAGS were there all along...
@ben:
The Advocate article offers NOTHING of substance that in any way negates our justified outrage at being BETRAYED!
Socarides “sees” a glimmer of hope in the White House shill’s saying Lord Obama STILL wants to see DOMA repealed??? What’s he using—a Hello Kitty crystal ball? Tea leaves? The entrails of a freshly slaughtered chicken? On what grounds could Obama appeal to Congress now after he used virtually every argument in the brief that the homohaters who wrote DOMA in the first place used?
You also have to understand that the woman who wrote the article is MAJORLY responsible for helping brainwash the gay community about Obama. Yes, she’s zinged Gibbs a couple of times in WH press conferences but that’s her job which she was NOT doing when she interviewed Obama in October 2007 during the primaries and LET HIM LIE OUTRIGHT to her readers.
In that interview he claimed [as he did in the Logo forum and on “Meet the Press”] that he had been a “chief cosponsor of” and “passed” the LGBT rights bill in Illinois.
While he had signed onto earlier bills ORIGINATED by others, he was apparently too busy running for the US Senate to even bother signing his name to the one that finally passed.
AND he had already LEFT the Illinois senate when it was voted on.
When challenged on this, she responded that they didn’t print a caveat because it was just a “simplification” not a lie and his “essential premise is true.” Fuck me what???!!!
And nationwide, gay press simply repeated as fact his CLAIM that he was better than Hillary on DOMA when his position on “states rights” was no different than hers so his mumbo jumbo on DOMA Sect. 2 was a trick. It was right out there IF they had chosen to look.
And, after his first BLATANT FUCK THE GAYS stunt…McClurkingate….after initial anger they swallowed his excuses and pretended it was never that important in the first place because he LOVES US.
And time after time, as his attacks on marriage equality got more and more explicit and wrapped in Jesus they cooed “he HAS to do this…we ‘know’ he REALLY supports marriage equality.”
Our outrage is, if anything, UNDERSTATED, after he told Ellen in October 2007, the same month of his first Advocate interview:
“You know what I would do is IMMEDIATELY set up a civil union that is equal in federal rights so that all the states, all the rights that are conferred by the states are the same for gays and lesbians, same sex couples as for any other couple.”
Not enough? How about this from February of 2008:
“It’s wrong to have millions of Americans living as SECOND-CLASS CITIZENS in this nation. And I ASK FOR YOUR SUPPORT IN THIS ELECTION so that together we can bring about real change for all LGBT Americans. I WILL NEVER COMPROMISE ON MY COMMITMENT TO EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL LGBT AMERICANS. As your President, I WILL USE THE BULLY PULPIT to urge states to treat same-sex couples with full equality in their family and adoption laws. I support the complete repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA). Federal law should not discriminate in any way against gay and lesbian couples, which is precisely what DOMA does. Americans are YEARNING FOR LEADERSHIP that can empower us to reach for what we know is possible. I believe that we can achieve the goal of full equality for the millions of LGBT people in this country. To do that, WE NEED LEADERSHIP that can appeal to the best parts of the human spirit. JOIN WITH ME, AND I WILL PROVIDE THAT LEADERSHIP. Together, we will achieve real equality for all Americans, gay and straight alike.” – Barack Obama, February 2008
Not enough? Let’s go to the video:
http://www.dailykostv.com/w/001841/
Joanaroo
I want to thank Prof. Donald Gaudard for the information in his comments first. That helps to get a sense of what is going on. About this decision, I am sad and angry this happened. I voted for Obama after agreeing with his platform but as soon as he got in office in Jan.-well, even before-he started changing his tune. In 2012, please vote any other party tho, but not Republican!
geoff
@Bob: When would be a good time to stop Jim Crow laws? Will it be more convenient in 2012 when he needs our contributions again?
Joanaroo
Thanks too Chitown Kev and Red Flags for the recent comments! I remember the Feb. 2008 speech and thinking about how great it was to think that we have someone willing to get our LGBT friends equal stature that we straights have had. DOMA should never had been implemented. We have alot to answer for and our LGBT brothers and sisters have suffered enough!
Rudy
No matter what the DOJ wrote, there is no way in hell the Supremes are going to overturn DOMA. Nor will they find a constitutional right to marriage for us no matter what Ted Olsen says.
When the Court threw out miscegenation laws, a majority of states had already done so.
We are proceeding with these suits with a majority of states having voted AGAINST us.
This is a huge tactical error.
As tough as it is, we have to go at this state by state. If the court went against the will of the people at this point (and they are still pro-civil union and anti-marriage at this point), an anti-marriage ammendment to the Constitution would suddenly have momentum. That would be the worst obstacle to marriage equality imagineable!
Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell? ENDA? Those are different stories. Polls show the public is solidly with us.
You want to be pissed at Obama? Fine – but he’s playing to win.
That’s what we have to do.
Hysteria and jumping into the arms of Sarah Palin will get us nothing.
Andrew Triska
@Prof. Donald Gaudard: This is really what kills me — that they’re talking about “protecting government resources.” As if money is an argument for denying anyone a right. What a slap in the face.
Thom
@Rudy:
Very well said. To all the people who are saying that they will vote 3rd party or Republican in 2012, are gay civil rights the only thing that matter to you? Is the only reason you voted Democratic because you thought Obama was better for gay rights? Think about what you are saying, you are willing to support a party that wants to set back our rights just because the Democratic president did this, sounds nutty to me.
I understand that scorn should be poured on Obama and I am upset as well but why on Earth would you ever consider voting Republican or even for a 3rd party that will only help the GOP, or not voting at all. we’re better than that, if you don’t support Obama fight for another candidate in the primaries.
InExile
How can some of you defend this man?
This is a man who ran a despicable campaign laced with racism and sexism. This is a man who never mentioned gay rights except via quotes posted on his website restated by his minions, not from his own written words. This is a man who first was elected to office (his first political job) by sabotaging the competition on technicalities. This is a man who even in the primary refused to be interviewed by the Philadelphia Gay News, meanwhile Hillary gave them an interview. This is a man who had allies in the right places (Nancy Pelosi, Donna Brazil)to push delegates to declare their support months prior to the actual voting and to change the primary rules awarding him delegates he did not earn through the voters. This same man and his allies manipulated the traditional convention floor vote into a mockery to make sure delegates could not change their minds and support Hillary Clinton. This is a man who copied Hillary Clinton’s plan for gays making a few changes and additions so he could then call the plan his own. This is a man who made promises he had no intention of keeping just to get elected. This is a man who has OPENLY supported the religious right. You can not be “all things to all people” and still stand for anything, it is impossible. The religious right has more votes than we do so we will only matter in close elections.
Gay marriage is NOT supported by the majority of Americans. At this point our best bet is to start DEMANDING CIVIL UNIONS WITH FULL FEDERAL BENEFITS since even many republicans support civil unions. We must make our demands to ALL branches of government, forget Obama saving us, he is not our friend and never was.
FORGET MARRIAGE EQUALITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PUSH FOR CIVIL UNIONS.
kevin57
InExile, I agree with you. As the French say, “Don’t let the good be an enemy to the perfect.” To me, the fact that Obama and the Congress have not even commenced hearings on any bill to recognize gay humans in this country is the most telling thing. I can’t say I’m an expert on the political machine, but it seems like even once a bill comes to committee it takes months, if not years, to get to the President’s desk. So, folks, yes, it looks like gay Americans won’t have anything coming our way for at least the next two years. Sad.
DuttyBarb
Good Morning all.
Since Queerty does not sleep in its pursuit of all forms of “evil” perpetuated to the gay community. I just saw this feed come in and had to read what Obama has done this time.
So if i understand this correctly, Obama admin is being blamed for defending a law in its constitution. Ooook? A law that requires Congress to repeal and that has not yet been repealed? So in simple words, you are blaming his team for doing the job you asked them to do. Riight?
People are funny though. My question here what do you expect Obama to do? Obviously, since he is SuperObama and has the lone power to repeal laws at the drop of the hat, DOMA should have been a thing of the past by now right?
After all ,Gay people(who can already get married and have rights under domestic partnership and civil unions) are swimming in such deep and great suffering right now. They must be top priority! Obama should leave the messed up economy and other impt socio-economic issues that affect us all to put all his power to attend to the whining of a minority that is not even under any real pressure compared to blacks, Asians and the like.
You are pissed because DOJ revealed all the sympathy inspiring lies y’all have been spewing for years on the gay marriage equal rights issue.
DOJ has made you look foolish now so the best cause of action is to intentionally misinterpret what was said on the legalese posted on Americablog and claim you are being insulted and denigrated.
Gay marriage is a farce. A freakshow. Like i said before, psuh civil unions for the full federal rights enjoyed by normal marriage and maybe just maybe you people will b able to get some of the federal rights that belong to normal marriages.
DuttyBarb
Oh and BTW…how many major News Corporations are even running this? Is CNN running this, ABC hell even Perez Hilton didn’t mention it..no really what does that tell you about how America views you people
InExile
@kevin57: Funny you would quote the French? Even the French have no intention of passing Marriage Equality. President Sarkozy ran on the platform of having full civil unions but opted to strengthen the PAX after he was elected which is what French gay couples have now. The PAX basically allows you to file joint taxes, have inheritance rights, immigration rights for your partner as well as other rights enjoyed by French married couples. My partner and I signed the PAX three years ago when my partner’s US work visa expired.
I don’t care what the rights we receive are called in the US, I just want the rights. If forgetting about using the marriage word will bring us full Federal rights, then we should forget the word marriage.
Sceth
Eff Obama; we can agree that this brief is aggressive and we have to fight him.
Does anyone see reason for the court to dismiss Smelt v USA without prejudice and not-on-the-merits so that Olson and Boies can get more time to prepare for similar arguments? I don’t know how dismissing etc works.
I’m concerned about the kind of all-round legal and social precedent the DoJ’s Smelt brief is going to screw us with. Damn scary.
galefan2004
@DuttyBarb: I feel bad for you. Honestly, I do. I mean, I’m perfectly happy being me, but you obviously aren’t happy being you. I think you should be reincarnated in your next life as a homosexual man because its quite obvious you want to be one or you wouldn’t come here day after day thinking we give a damn what you think. Like most bigoted hypocrites, the only one that actually cares what you say is you.
Christian
I gave the Obama campaign $1000 of my (very hard earned) money last year – I attended every rally he held here in Houston,Texas and I am absolutely pissed at the shameful actions of our President and his team today regarding DOMA.
Zero action, nothing, zilch, not a damn thing yet in regards to GLBT civil rights which are IMPORTANT to me.
It is UNCONSCIONABLE that he has not pushed to stop the hate associated with the Matthew Shepard Act by not simply SPEAKING UP and being a leader, he has had NOTHING to say about marriage equality for us until today.
Tow the fucking statue of Liberty to a Country that gets it -it aint America.
Uhh
So are you guys Republicans now or what?
I hope the people on here saying they’ll vote for Palin do vote for her so come 2012 when that stupid cow is sitting in office ruining our country they won’t have anyone to blame but themselves. Or Obama…
You know what, they’d still blame Obama.
timncguy
@Thom: @Shawn: I plan to vote republican no matter who their nominee is. My opinion is that there is no reason why gays should be the only constituancy being shat upon. Might as well vote repug and make everyone else miserable right along with us. It would be the only way to teach them a lesson.
If enough gays stop supporting them, maybe the dems will realize they have to work for us to EARN our votes and donations in order to prevent their own losses.
I don’t understand why the gay community is always expected to take it on the chin to help the rest of the country avoid another repug admin.
If someone doesn’t want another repug in office, then get up off your ass and FORCE the dems to EARN the votes of gays with ACTION instead of rhetoric.
To date, the only positive thing Obama has done for gays is that pride proclamation. Even that wasn’t great. Go read it again. IT has a call to action in it that leaves Obama OUT OF THE ACTION. He calls for the community and congress to work to advance gay rights. He should have called for the community and congress to work WITH HIM to advance gay rights.
The only other actions we have gotten from Obama have been negative. Jokes about gay marriage at the correspondant’s dinner. Jokes about Prop 8 at a CA fund raiser. And now a brief that has gone to every vile extreme that a Mormon homophobe could think of to throw in it.
Of course we do have the promise from Joe Solmonese and his meeting with the white house that they have a “secret” plan. And Joe assures us it’s a good “secret” plan. But, part of that secret plan we were told would be revealed in June to coincide with pride and Stonewall. And, what has been revealed in June has been a weak proclamation where Obama is missing from the call to action and this homophobic brief.
Joe Solmonese needs to be tarred and feathered and put on public display for humiliation. Or maybe we just need to waterboard him until he spills his guts about the details of the “secret” plan.
Bob R
I think InExile hit the nail firmly on the head when he said (Obama) “cannot be all things to all people.” That is precisely the stunt he has been trying to pull off. I’ve come to believe that Obama has no principles. He’s just another used car hustler, a huckster, a golden tongued, fast talking snake oil salesman. I think he has an abundance of ambition, and to fulfill his ambition to be the first African-American U.S. President he will do whatever is necessary. This President is a very ambitious man, a good politician and an unabashed liar.
I came to Obama late in the campaign. He was not my first choice, nor my second choice, nor even my third choice, but he eventually won me over and I became enthusiastic. I got on the Obama “hope” bandwagon and gave money to his campaign, put stickers on my car and several large Obama/Biden signs in my yard. That in itself caused me some problems since I live in Appalachian Ohio and supporting Obama was not popular in my neighborhood! I still suffer from lost friendships and incur snide remarks from neighbors about my support of Obama. My neighbor stopped talking to me the moment the first Obama sign appeared in my yard and hasn’t spoken to me since. One former friend even laughed and told me “well looks like your guy has thrown you under the bus.”
I should note here that I’m not a one issue voter. I really don’t care that much about DOMA, or DADT but there are other gay and progressive policies that I care about more. So far, I have received nothing from Obama save backtracking, lies and disappointment. At the time I went to vote with my partner of 27 years, I felt that I was, for the first time, voting for a real Democrat and not the “lesser of two evils”. I went into that booth and voted for Obama without having to hold my nose. I now believe I made a mistake and I’m suffering from buyer’s remorse. Given what I know now, there would be no bumper stickers, no yard signs, no money, no defending his candidacy to friend and neighbors and my vote would have been given very reluctantly, knowing once again he was the “lesser of two evils”. I feel like I was thoroughly exploited by “slick” Barry. He’s lied to me on more than one occasion about more than one issue and I will never trust or believe Obama again.
I think he will fail as a leader. Obama is more concerned with being popular than being President. He’s definitely no FDR, and that’s the kind of forceful leadership America needs right now. Instead we’ve got a better educated, literate, golden tongued Bush-lite. Yes, Obama wants to be “all things to all people”, but in the end he will be no one to any one because he has no principles, no courage and he is not a leader we can believe in or even trust. Will I support Obama in 2012? If things then are as they are now, no, I won’t. I cannot see that far into the future, but unless the GOP candidate is simply dreadful (like McCain/Palin), I’ll either vote a third party candidate or just stay home. I’m too old and too tired to keep supporting candidates that belong on the rubbish heap of history.
Tallskin
GRAMMAR ALERT
GRAMMAR ALERT
Can you guys at Queerty please start to use your english grammar correctly for fuck’s sake! It is not “Obama Has Spat and Shit In the Faces of Gay America” but rather:
“Obama Has Spat and SHAT In the Faces of Gay America”
to shit – present tense
Shat – past tense
I have shat – perfect tense
You managed to get the correct tense of To Spit correct! So, come on be consistent.
Actually I suppose you are being consistent, cos you’re constantly fucking up your grammar!
Pffff, whoever employed you guys it wasn’t for your writing or editing ability
Alexa
If the Republicans continue their shift to the right, each and every one of us would be completely fucked if they get into office. Voting Republican as a knee jerk reaction to this is insane. Calm down and think about it logically. Saying that, right now I can’t see voting for Obama either, so if things don’t change soon we should put our energies into thinking about an alternative to both Obama and the far right.
OldFAQ
Yes, I was shocked and angry too when I read the news about Obama’s DOJ over-the-top DOMA defense. But even more, it pushed all those shame and humiliation buttons that I thought I had gotten over. It was like having the Rick Warren snafu shoved in my face all over again – magnified a thousand fold. But I’m over than now. I’m back to being pissed. Enough so that I’ll be letting my congressional rep. know that the donation spigot is off until I see her actively involved in legislation to repeal DOMA and DADT. For me, all politics is now local. Sad to say, I’m writing Obama and his administration off as a lost cause. Whatever his motive, the silence and inaction towards us, as a people, has drained all my hope and respect for the man. I believe we’re on our own, folks. But we’ve survived worse. And we’ll do it again – loudly this time.
Robert, NYC
@geoff:
I’m as outraged at Obama as anybody else, but if you hate socialism so much, why not abolish the following socialized programs and in doing so, how are you republicans or would be republicans going to pay for replacing them and with what?
Here’s the list that republicans currently use and take for granted:
All three branches of the military, fire and police departments, public school system, public libraries, medicare, medicaid, FCC, FDA, FAA, CAA, HUD, Department of Homeland Security, FBI, CIA, Social Security, IRS, Federal and State Courts, Department of Justice, Coast Guard, The VA, to name a few. By the way, many republicans send their children to public schools,should they go to private schools and how are their parents going to pay for them if their income isn’t sufficient? I don’t hear any republicans calling for their abolition. Be careful what you wish for.
Robert, NYC
@timncguy:
Rather than vote for the obstructionist pary that has NEVER authored one piece of legislation favoring LGBT rights,nor will it ever…expend your energy by voting for the only party that DOES support our full equality…the GREENS. Giving them a few million more voters will decidedly give the Dems and Party of Hate reason to put up or shut up. If the Dems don’t at least deliver on repealing DADT first, then DOMA….we shouldn’t be supporting them in 2012.
andy_d
@D-Sun: even if it is for a third party candidate, PLEASE VOTEQ
Russ
Give the man a chance and lose the over the top angry rhetoric and namecalling. It only gives comfort to ours and Obama’s enemies who would love to drive a wedge between us.
Obama has never been in favor of a national law legalizing gay marriage and he would not have been elected if he was.
Anyone old enough to remember Clinton’s attempt to end gay discrimination in the military early in his presidency understands how poor timing on controversial issues can undermine not only that initiative but the rest of his agenda as well. Obama is right to put fixing the economy and healthcare first.
Once he builds up a record of real accomplishment he will be in a much stronger position to advance those of our issues that he does agree with. Be patient and realistic and don’t lose sight of the fact that the other issues he’s dealing with (the economy, the wars, etc) are ours too.
Chris Ovide
@ben:
I agree its not his skin color that makes him good or bad. The sad thing is that being black he should remember Plessy Vs Ferguson and the Separate but Equal doctrine and it should be the first issue on his list.
I know a ton of black gay men and its wrong to speak like a KKK member just because Obama did this. I do think however that people are hurt and this sort of talk sadly is easier then logic.
What we should do is really march on the white house and demand our human rights, practice civil disobedience and follow the teaching of MLK, Malcom X and Ghandi and use all methods to obtain our equality.
I don’t care how you put it but discrimination is wrong and separate but equal is just as wrong….
Theo N
The questions/comment keeps coming up about having to choose between the lesser of two evils in 2012 Obama vs Palin. Or Obama vs Gingrich or Huckabee. The reality is that the biggest threat or the greatest evil comes from the friend who lies and betrays us. With George W Bush, we knew he was our enemy, we knew who it was and he stabbed us in the eye at every turn. But Obama courted us, made promises, gave his word … then has stabbed us in the back after he got what he wanted.
I’ve been a life long democrat, for the entire 30 years I’ve been voting. But I, like many of our friends, have come to the conclusion that Obama and the Democrats are not our friends. They control the White House and both houses of congress, yet have done nothing on a the federal level to change the hatred and bigotry that has been written in our laws.
My response is that I will not give a single dime to support either party ever again. And, personally I will be voting republican in 2010 and 2012. I think the gay community should send a strong message to the Democrats and Obama by actively working for the Republicans during the next couple of elections. Maybe if they were actually punished at the polls by the gay community for their betrayal, they would either stop making deceitful promises they don’t intend to fulfill or will actually fulfill the campaign promises they make.
Either way, I’ll be supporting the Republican from now on. No more hours of canvassing or big donations for the democrats.
timncguy
@OldFAQ: If you think that Obama has been “silent” on our issues you are wrong. He has made public statements about our issuse since the election. But, oustide of the pride proclamation (which this brief makes looks silly) his public statements have all been NEGATIVE.
He has made us nothing but the butt of his jokes prior to this brief. And, now the brief takes it a step further by putting into legal writing every homophobic, bigottes slur he could think of.
This is not properly defined as your stated “silence and inaction”. This has been very verbal and very active in a negative way.
timncguy
@Robert, NYC: Sorry, but I’m afraid if I voted green, the repugs wouldn’t win. And, I want the repugs to win as a way to bring the anti-gay dems down under the bus with the rest of us. I want them to pay consequences for their lack of support. I don’t see any reason for the rest of the country to enjoy the fruits of a dem administration while the LGBT community continues to get nothing from them.
timncguy
@Russ: You are correct that Obama has never supported a national law legalizing gay marriage. But, this lawsuit has a second part to it asking that federal marriage benefits be provided to legally married same-sex couples. And, Obama is on record as supporting federal benefits for same-sex couples in legally recognized unions.
Continually relating 2009 to 1993, when the environment is toally different is a red herring. For instance, repeal of DADT has 69% support of the citizens. There is no reason to think that NOW would be poor timing for ending DADT.
Similarly, the argiments made that Obama has too much on his plate with the economy and two wars can’t be supported either. Obama had no problem spending time to sign an executing order removing the ban on federal funding for stem cell research. The congress had no problem spending time on the Lilly Ledbedder legislation and now the tobacco legislation this week. So, I don’t want to hear anymore about how the administration and the congress only have time for the economy and the wars either.
I’m not saying I expect all our issues right now. But, I’m tired of the only actions and the only talk being negative.
DADT would have been a very easy win for Obama to sign an executive stop loss order and publically call on congress to move on the legislation to repeal DADT.
GJR
@D-Sun:
He’ll send out a press release on how much he loves us, with a donations envelope enclosed of course.
GJR
I am totally and utterly disgusted with Obama but, to be fair, he does not specifically say he does not oppose DOMA on the new version of whitehouse.gov.
This is what was said in January:
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/04/30/11044
Oppose a Constitutional Ban on Same-Sex Marriage: President Obama voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment in 2006 which would have defined marriage as between a man and a woman and prevented judicial extension of marriage-like rights to same-sex or other unmarried couples.
This is what it says now:
[He] opposes a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage
So, the core of the sentence is still there, albeit it somewhat watered down. He never mentioned DOMA even in the original bullet points in January
babyd1983
the problem is that he lied. and there is no other way to say you fucked up other than you fucked up. sugar coated language is obviously not the answer. we must let him know without a doubt THAT HE FUCKED UP.
political correctness is dead. get over it.
Todd
@Russ:
If you had pulled your head far enough out of Obama’s ass you would understand that this lawsuit had NOTHING to do with “a national law legalizing gay marriage.”
It ONLY asks for the two things that OBAMA HIMSELF PROMISED TO FIGHT FOR:
(a) recognition by all states of gay unions from other states WHATEVER they were called. That’s what he was claiming to support in calling for the repeal of section two of DOMA.
(b) federal benefits which Obama crowed about fighting for over and over and over.
And exactly how, after “he builds up a record of real accomplishment” as you put it can he then go to Congress either about DOMA or DADT or both and say, “Ya know how we said they were both totally justified and constitutional a while back? Well, we didn’t mean it. Can you please forget what we insisted then and repeal them now.”
GROW UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[img]http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8160/bendover.png[/img]
timncguy
@GJR: nothing you cited here says anything about DOMA.
Now try comparing what it said about DOMA on day 1 and what it says about DOMA now please.
Robert, NYC
@timncguy:
Tim, you have to ask yourself this. If you vote for republicans, do you really believe they’re going to draft legislation to give you your equality either?
As I said in my last post, they have NO history sponsoring any bills to legislate for any semblance of equality for LGBT voters. Why do you think equality issues are NEVER on their platform during national conventions or political campaigns? At least the Dems intend to do something, later rather than sooner and I’m not defending them either though I too don’t like the back pedaling Obama is engaged in right now. I’m just as outraged as the next, but I’m damn well not going to waste my vote on the party of hate, a party that believes we should STFU and go away, a party for losers and self-loathers, many of whom you’ll find in the Log Cabin group. These people actually vote and support their party that consistently votes against any equality legislation and several gay closeted republicans, some of whom have been outed, actually vote and continue to vote against marriage equality, among other things. How fucked up is that? Its tantamount to Jews voting for Hitler.
If every gay voter got behind the Greens, it would be more than a wake up call to the two major parties and could effect the balance of power between the two, maybe that’s not such a bad idea with the current delay tactics employed by the Dems. Having control of both houses hasn’t got us anywhere and I doubt if it will accomplish much in our favor.
GJR
Please read every word of this excellent piece written by John Arvonasis
http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/word-about-barack-obama-and-lawyers-in.html#disqus_thread
GJR
@Robert, NYC:
Robert that is the key word INTEND. It never goes beyond the form of nice words and press statements. This same thing happened with Clinton. Lots of nice words and policies. Relations then cooled and became downright hostile, statements like “how dare you..” were used. Who was a figure behind this? Rahm Emmanuel.
And I’m so tired of the “Republicans are worse” argument. I didn’t vote for Obama to be “better than McCain” – I voted for someone to take bold steps to change the political course in America. I’m sure it wasn’t easy for President Truman to desegregate the military, which became the first brick in a difficult civil rights struggle for African Americans, but that is what he did.
Lyndon Johnson, for all of his faults in Vietnam, said that he could lose the South for a generation by passing the Civil Rights Act of 1964, because he did what was the right thing. It also caused a major realignment in the parties. Those DINO racist Democrats switched parties because of it.
President Kennedy made huge political risks by intervening in the South against Governor Wallace in Alabama on school desegregation but he did it because it was the right thing to do.
There was the landmark Loving v. Virginia civil rights case.
So, if a president won’t stand up for my civil rights, I have no use for him. Obama is not the bold, Roosevelt type we expected him to be. “New hope for America” was apparently a political slogan.
GJR
@timncguy:
Um, hello, I am citing the talking points he had on Whitehouse.gov and the beginning and now. I am not talking about promises he made during the campaign.
GJR
@GJR:
Meaning that the word DOMA was not mentioned in the original bullet points put up on Whitehouse.gov on around January 21st.
Robert, NYC
Voting republican to punish Dems is futile. You’re actually voting against yourselves and empowering the right wing religious wackos controlling the party of hate. If that’s not self-loathing, I don’t know what is.
Voting for the Greens is more relevant because it punishes both parties, affecting their power. It seems to me, a vote for republicans is a vote for no equality legislation and I suspect not important to those who choose the party of no and negativity. I suppose paying fewer taxes or none favoring corporate elitists….their solution to everything that is wrong in society, is better than being kept in a permanent state of oppression and second class citizenship.
elaine
I realized during the campaigning that neither McCain or Obama were going to be offering the LGBT community anything positive. I could not in good conscience vote for Obama just because the other option was worse. So I voted third party to show I won’t be pressured to vote for jerks whether they are Republican or Democrat.
timncguy
@GJR</aI believ you are wrong on the timing of that. As I understand it, the White House web site started out with the SAME language as Obama’s campaign website. If I’m wrong, I apologize. But, I don’t think I am. I believe the white house web site language was “watered down” sometime after he took office.
timncguy
@Robert, NYC: sorry, but I’m not interested in sending a message to both parties. I’m interested in having the dems lose if they won’t do anything for LGBT issues.
Voting for the green party and having the dems still win would only send a message that they don’t need gays and could continue to ignore us.
I’m puzzled but this notion that we apparently aren’t a strong enough force to scare the dems into believing they will lose without us. Posters act like the dems can’t be forced into acting on our issues for fear of losing an election. They act like the dems would rather lose without us than to do something to earn our votes and keep us.
Maybe that is the dems actual calculation. Maybe they fear they will lose more non-gay votes by addressing our issues than gay votes by losing us. And, if that is the case, there isn’t anything we can do.
And, in that case I am willing to put up with the repugs just to make sure that everyone else has to put up with them to. I’m no longer willing to be the vote that puts the dems over the top and get shit on in return for that vote. PERIOD
GJR
@Robert, NYC:
I will never vote Republican as I draw breath. I don’t know if voting Green is the answer either. Nader is the biggest conceited asshole out there, it is all about his ego. Instead of going out to support Green party candidates, create a platform acceptable to more Americans, he just pops up every 4 years to siphon votes away from the Democrats. I had a friend who ran for city council in California as a Green and lost. But THAT is the way to build a party. Get councilmen, a mayor, a governor, a congressman, a senator or two who are Green, then you have a credible movement.
But everybody has a line that is drawn. For some Republicans, it is “if X is pro-choice, I can’t support him/her..” for me it is, if a president can’t support my civil rights, I can’t support him/her. Look, in 1993 maybe DADT was the only thing that could be done. Today it is completely unthinkable. It is also unthinkable that the first African American president, who himself broke through barriers of discrimination, does nothing to break down other forms of discrimination.
GJR
@timncguy:
I also do not claim absolute authority on the issue. Fact is, it’s hard to track down the original bullet points from whitehouse.gov from early January. Of course, the current whitehouse.gov page has changed. But that link I cite does have the bullet points as I remember them. I also remember that the bullet points were copied pretty much verbatim from change.gov.
Don’t get me wrong. I am so majorly disgusted with Obama. But I do think it is not completely accurate reporting to state that the whitehouse.gov page has changed on DOMA when, according to every source I have googled, and I’ve checked like 20, DOMA was not mentioned in the original bullet points. It was always like “does not support federal bans on same-sex marriage”.
GJR
@timncguy:
There is some watering down that occurred. First, they tried to remove the word “repeal”. Then Rachel Maddow shamed them into putting it back.
As regards other things, this is what was left out from the original bullet points to now:
“Oppose a Constitutional Ban on Same-Sex Marriage: President Obama voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment in 2006 which would have defined marriage as between a man and a woman and prevented judicial extension of marriage-like rights to same-sex or other unmarried couples.”
So basically, they leave out the part were he has how great he is for his no vote against the Federal Marriage Amendment in 2006.
GJR
@timncguy:
We are as strong a voting block as the Jews. But we are not a cohesive force. That is because we are “represented” by people like HRC who try to shape major policy issues behind our backs. Our people go to celebrities like Melissa Etheridge who gushes about how nice Rick Warren is. We need a more powerful lobby, one that comes with actual figures, shows the gay-themed or gay-suggestive advertising that goes on and show we are a major force.
And yes, it may take a seat or two being lost, where a community is 1000% resolute in saying no to a certain candidate.
The problem is, we are dispersed throughout the country. It’s not like we are a strong voting block like Jews in Florida. However, in certain enclaves of the nation, I think things could be done. If gays sat home in major urban areas, parts of California and the West Coast, West Palm Beach etc. maybe people could make a difference. But politicians know what side their bread is buttered on. Usually the politicians in the areas with a substantial gay population already vote as they should.
Tom in Lazybrook
How bout this Obama? 10% of your voters defect to a third party or don’t vote in Indiana, Ohio, Virginia, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvannia, Florida, and New Hampshire. What does that do to you Mr. Fiece Advocate?
I don’t care if the GOP wins in 2012 as things stand right now. I can get no action on ENDA, DADT Repeal, DOMA Repeal, and the Uniting American Families Act from a Republican Administration.
Democrats…We’re not kidding. You don’t own our votes or my money. I’m no longer giving any money to any straight candidate that isn’t willing to sign a discharge petition on all of those things.
I gave over 1k to the Dems. They’ll be getting nothing unless they move on their promises. Real Change isn’t replacing an anti-Gay GOP government with an anti-Gay Democratic one. At least if we make the Dems WORK for our vote, they’ll think twice about ignoring us in the future.
And don’t think we are gonna forget about you, Mr and Ms. Committee Chairs. How would you like a Primary Challenge in a San Francisco Democratic Primary on the issue of inaction/incompetence on LGBT issue leadership, Ms. Pelosi?
Primary fights all over the map. Third party challenges. Lets get creative and show the Dems that if DADT Repeal has a 70% majority and ENDA is the same, we will not allow them to triangulate them. Any other creative ideas?
GJR
@Tom in Lazybrook:
For a start, do just what you are doing. When they call for the Nation Democratic Senatorial Committee and all of those places say you will not give a dime. And when All-Talk Barack starts campaigning, I won’t spend a moment of my time helping, campaigning etc. The sickening thing is I know of people in California who focused less on the Prop 8 fight to cross the border and canvas in Nevada for Obama. Somehow we were important then.
Dabq
Looks like Obama is toast in the next election and the GOP will be back in charge, the gays are vilifying him for not working on gay issues, the black activist are vilifying him for not working on black issues, and, yet, he keeps on being a moderate, when I assume that some voted for him thinking he was going to be a die hard liberal, oh well, I guess it shows, don’t take any politician for what he says while seeking office.
I for one am totally dismayed at the fact that treatment for AIDS and HIV patients has flew under the radar on so many gay sites, he’s letting people in some states die if they can’t afford their med’s, that is far more disgusting to me than anything else he has done.
timncguy
THis brief is what put it over the top for me. The Obama admin isn’t even satisfied with supporting separate by equal anymore. Now, in this brief they are making the claim that EQUAL isn’t EQUAL.
The 18,000 legally married same-sex couples in CA are legally in every way to all of the hetero married couples. I can see no legal argument to deny federal benefits to them.
I understand the argument can be made to not force other states to recognize the marriages. But, to claim the feds can deny marriage benefits to legally married couples because they don’t approve of the “kind” of marriage it is makes no legal sense at all.
In one breath they say it’s an issue for the states. Well the state of CA said these couples are legally married and equal to all other married couples, so bring on the federal benefits.
GJR
@Dabq:
Such bullshit. Here’s a novel idea. Obama should keep the promises he made to be elected. If he didn’t believe in repealing DOMA, DADT etc. he should have said, “I don’t think this is the time to address these issues.” It would have not been good but at least honest. Instead, he promised the sun and moon to get GLBT votes, then immediately starts backing down.
Nobody is expecting results on this tomorrow. This will take several years. But we need concrete action now. Personally, I think DADT should go first. As this was the first step in the African American civil rights movement. Then secure civil unions for GLBT people on a federal level, meaning we get all of the basic rights of married people. Then we can go after DOMA and be able to use the word “marriage” which so scares everyone.
But Obama has done nothing. In fact, the brief yesterday set us back not forward. It was a beautifully crafted brief that sets up all the talking points for people to use against us: but, but, the federal government can say no to incest, underage marriage. And that has nothing fucking to do with two non-related adults who want to get married (any marriage law says incestual marriage is not permitted), yet that strawman was advanced anyway.
GJR
@Dabq:
I totally agree with you on the AIDS issue. And the stupid thing is, it is not a gay issue. There are many poor straight people afflicted with AIDS who also die because of a lack of care.
mikeincleveland
seriously- are you dramatic bitches on here that are now pouting (and not understanding political strategy, obviously) going to run off and vote Republican in 2012? the same party of Glenn Beck and Limbaugh? because it’ll save you taxes? wow- who’s the backstabbers to the community now, huh?
GJR
@timncguy:
Which is why, if the Obama admin wants to stay firm on DOMA for the moment, they need to really be pushing the civil unions issue. I personally am more concerned about concrete rights for me and my partner (although we live in Connecticut and could marry)than the ability to say “marriage”. Of course, I agree, there should be 100% equality. But I am more concerned about gay and lesbian folks in Kansas who can’t visit their loved one in a hospital bed.
But the Obama admin has done absolutely zilch in supporting federal civil unions. So I will be giving absolutely zilch support to him.
GJR
@mikeincleveland:
Um, no, stupid bitch, if you read what was said above, I will never vote for a Republican but I will not check off Obama’s name for president if he does not meet the promises he made.
Are my civil rights just as important as dealing with GM, the banks, giving speeches to reach out to Muslims in other countries? Fuck yes. I don’t expect results tomorrow, but I expect some concrete action to start. 2012 is too late. I think the Dems will see a few million votes less in their favor then if they haven’t worked to achieve the promises made.
BradK
@Todd: Thanks Todd for posting my graphic!
I did that up a couple of weeks ago, the day after the latest PropH8 ruling and the day that Dear Leader made the crack about, “now which promise was that?”
But yesterday was truly the final straw and I posted it up at PHB. I’m kinda surprised that she didn’t pull it down, being that she maintains a slightly less crass tone than we do here.
Agree with your posting as well. Any lingering doubt in the minds of even the most devout Obots should finally be wiped away. Let him wipe his own ass for a “Change”…
GJR
@Dabq:
I didn’t vote for him to be a die-hard liberal, I voted for him to make bold steps to make a change in America. I did not vote for him to say, “Haha, I broke through a racial barrier to become president, screw the rest of you that suffer from discrimination…” I voted for him because of the campaign promises he made. I did NOT vote for him so he could be “better than McCain….”
timncguy
@GJR: sorry, but you to check further into what Obama’s position is on federal recognition of civil unions. Many people are under the impression that Obama supports some sort of federal law giving civil unions to all gay across the nation. It isn’t true. I verified this with his campaign during the elction cycle.
What Obama supports is giving federal benefits to same-sex couples who are in a legally recognized union in their state. That can be civil union, marriage, domestic partner ship etc. But, he leaves it up to the individual states. A same-sex couple living in a state with no legal recognition gets no federal benefits.
The only thing Obama promised to do was to use the “Bully Pulpit” to advocate that all the states provide civil unions, at minimum, to same-sex couples.
Now, the way you go about providing federal benefits to same-sex couples in legally recognized unions is by getting rid of DOMA, not be defending it with every homophobic argument you can come up with.
The other promise Obama made was to FIERCELY support full repeal of DOMA.
You understand that with DOMA in place, you or no one else gets any concrete rights at the federal level.
Gayalltheway
After a much heated exchanged of comments from everyone since yesterday, I think I have begun to understand the reason behind the DOJ’s brief but first of all, I am not an Obama apologist or someone who will just defend his every action, or inaction in most cases, but I believe that he is still on our side. Like many have said, the candidate Obama is a totally different person than the President Obama and I think we can all agree on this. I don’t think he lied, he “backtracked” or whatever we hastily assumed that he did to us, the LGBT community. He is the POTUS now, and it is his responsibility to defend everything that is in the statutes whether he agrees with them. It doesn’t matter which former Presidents signed a piece of legislation into law, a successor or a new President and his/her administration is obligated to defend every single laws that are already in place and enacted by previous administration and Congress. I believe that his personal view on the constitutionality of DOMA hasn’t changed and he is still in support of repealing it, but it has to be done through Congress and legislative process. We should all just take a deep breath and let’s not start fighting among ourselves and so quickly dismiss him as someone who still strongly believes that LGBT should be treated equally and be given all the same rights by the federal government. I think I’m gonna get a lot of negative responses and criticisms but I stand strong on what my view on this issue and I urge for you to do the same. We cannot go into a frenzy mode every time something like this happen before fully understand the reason behind it. I will only believe that Obama has turned on us and lied to our faces IF the Congress passes a bill to repeal DADT or DOMA and he REFUSES to sign it. But until then, we should stop fighting among ourselves because whenever that happens, the homophobes and bigots win. I also understand that we do not want to wait any longer but perhaps we are focusing on the wrong guy, Obama in this case, to get things moving. It is the Congress that we should go after, we are letting them off to easily. I think we have already succeeded on Obama’s part because I believe that he has said it loud and clear that he supports the repeal of DADT and DOMA therefore if the Congress passes legislation to repeal the two laws, he will sign them into law. We assume that the President has some kind of magic power that he can just sign things to make them disappear. (George W. Bush certainly thinks so) But in reality, it simply isn’t so and everything has to be done through Congress and the legislative process. So once again, I urge that some of you to take a deeper look into this matter and try to understand his position. I’ve noticed some pretty nasty and distasteful choice of words and I think we can have a more civil conversation on this issue. And especially the title of this posting on Queerty “Obama has spat and shit in the faces of gay Ameerica” – well that’s just offensive. One more thing I strongly suggest we do as a community is to go after Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid on this two important issues, DOMA and DADT. I know there is a bill that has already been introduced in the House to repeal DADT and it’s called the “Military Readiness Enhancement Act” and it is our duty to call our Reps. and Senators and ask them to support and vote YES for the bill. Let’s shift our focus on the Congress!!
LowPassFilter
First off, if you want DOMA and DADT repealed, you should be lobbying the people who can really repeal it, your senators and congressmen. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the segregated military was military policy, not federal law; whereas DADT is federal law. That’s why Truman could just desegregate the military by executive order under his Commander in Chief powers whereas Obama can’t unilaterally repeal DADT like y’all want him to do.
As for DOJ’s brief, they did their job. From a moral standpoint, I don’t agree with the position they took on the merits, but it’s the position they have to take. That being said, I’d be disappointed if the DOJ argued against DOMA. The DOJ is not Obama’s official counsel, but counsel for the federal government itself, and the federal government’s position is that DOMA is the law. While Obama may support DOMA, it doesn’t matter what he thinks on this issue. If the federal government’s position was that DOMA is illegal, then it would be repealed. If the DOJ didn’t argue to maintain the status quo they would be breaching their duty to the federal government. Furthermore, if they only argued the jurisdictional issues and not the merits, they’d be opening themselves up to malpractice (I don’t know how malpractice interplays w/ the Tort Claim Act, but I think my point is clear). While any first semester law student could probably get this dismissed on the jurisdictional issues, that same student would tell you that you always hedge your bets and make all the arguments you can in defense of your opinion in case the judge doesn’t think your first grounds for dismissal are a slam dunk.
Vanhattan
@Ian: The short answer: YES! Palin 2012!
GJR
@timncguy:
Than this is worse than I even thought. I was under the impression that extending civil unions meant providing blanket federal protections to everyone. But you are saying according to Obama, if gays in Iowa get rights but don’t for Mississippi for another 30 years, that’s peachy with him? That is much, much worse than I even imagined.
Vanhattan
@Gayalltheway: FUCK YOU TOO
GJR
@Vanhattan:
No that’s the stupid answer. It means we will not be casting votes for someone who doesn’t meet campaign promises to us. It doesn’t mean supporting Palin or any other Republican asshole.
GJR
@LowPassFilter:
Um, the original bill was brought up by my parent’s rep, Ellen Tauscher. But she is getting promoted upward in the Obama admin. So a letter has been written to her. Written to my rep in Connecticut. Written to my senators. What else should I do. I am pressuring them to take action on this.
mikeincleveland
@GJR sorry, but when you write things like: “And I’m so tired of the “Republicans are worse” argument. I didn’t vote for Obama to be “better than McCain” – I voted for someone to take bold steps to change the political course in America…” – you kinda show your own true colors.
go find your presidential candidate from the past election that was entirely pro-gay marriage…oh wait- Kucinich!
yes, yes… and you would have loved hanging out dishing with his wife about pop culture for four years too
i believe what e.j. dionne said recently, this will be the last presidential election where the democratic candidate (and, depending if the moderates grab back control in the GOP or not) is against gay marriage and cops out for the civil unions line.
there are two areas of society that are ALWAYS last to the “modernization” table- government and religion.
i don’t support the intensity of the justice department lawyers’ arguments this past week about DOMA (no President approves every piece of paper work- so if anything blame Holder) but i do understand the overall strategy to force Congress to be the ones to get into the debate because it will only worsen the image of the GOP’s hard right side in the long run.
ps- bill clinton kinda/maybe/woulda that he’s for gay marriage now- actually, i believe his words were that he’s “coming around to it”…
go drink your clinton Kool Aid now..there’s a bitter after-taste that still lingers with you on that one, too
Gayalltheway
@Vanhattan: Well thank you, but I am seeing someone already but thanks nonetheless.
ps- Stop trolling homosexuals website to incite hatred among LGBTs. People know who you are and what you are trying to do. Childish.
LowPassFilter
@GJR:
I’m not a political strategist, so I have no idea what else you should do.
What I was trying to say, which in hindsight wasn’t that clear, is that everyone’s threatening to not re-elect Obama, but being silent with respect to their legislators. If you want to threaten politicians with voting for someone else, threaten the ones with the power to make the change and the one who are up for re-election before the President, i.e. your legislators. Like GAYALLTHEWAY said, if Obama doesn’t sign the legislation when it’s put on his desk or he’s somehow stonewalling it in the Congress, then it’s a different story. But as of now, I think we should be focusing on the legislature.
Gayalltheway
@LowPassFilter: Ditto. Exactly the things I was trying to say.
Republican
I realize that almost everyone posting here is liberal, but the reality is that 1 in 4 gays voted for McCain last time, so there are already many gays who side with the elephant. I know of a lot of gays who voted for Obama because of gay issues, but now that he has stabbed them in the back, many of them are considering voting for the GOP nominee for the first time in their lives. 1 in 4 could easily become 1 in 3 or even 1 in 2 if the President isn’t careful.
fifi
Republicans are happily looking for the gay dollar in 2012.I think Obama already knows he’s not getting the gay vote and he must be ok with that. I think he realizes that he will never please us no matter what he does. We have been bashing him like this daily since way back when he was pres elect and we will bash him like till the day our ideal president take office. I cant wait for the day when we will have a gay friendlier pres than obama in the white house who openly supports gay marriage. I hope it happens in my lifetime.
Tom in Lazybrook
@GJR:
I already sent a wonderful note to the DSCC, attached the FEC report of my donations, told them that no only would they not get any more money from me until they start moving on my issues, but I will also not be donating to any Texas Senate Candidates either.
BradK
@GJR: Thanks for posting that. Everyone should read this.
The byline lists a Joe Sudbay and not John Arvonasis though I’ve never heard of either.
http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/word-about-barack-obama-and-lawyers-in.html
Bruno
@fifi:
“I think he realizes that he will never please us no matter what he does. We have been bashing him like this daily since way back when he was pres elect and we will bash him like till the day our ideal president take office.”
What? That’s ridiculous. If Obama had done anything to assuage our community’s uncertainty with him, he’d have our vote. It was an easy get…saying something like “I’ll work towards repealing DADT next year” even would’ve helped a little. Any kind of timetable. You make it sound like it’s our fault and he’s pissed off at us. Blame the victim, much?
Tom in Lazybrook
One note to the GOPers in here. I’m not suggesting that we vote for the GOP. I’m suggesting undervoting or third partying Obama in 2012 if he misbehaves.
I’m not voting for anyone who lies to me. The Democrats apparently need to understand that if they tell us to pound sand, we will do just that instead of voting next time.
Both parties need to fight for our vote. If neither do, then neither get my vote. And if that means that Romney beats Obama in 2012, I’m ambivalent right now. Romney lied to the Gay community when he was running for Gov. of Mass., Obama appears to be doing the exact same.
The Gay GOPers need to hold their own leaders to the same criteria as we are holding the Dems. Otherwise, you have no credibility.
Michael W.
I’ll only vote for the Republican candidate if he’s a hot white daddy-type like Mitt Romney or Tim Pawlenty. Having Romney’s cute sons as the first family on TV all the time would be worth it alone. But if it’s that arab Bobby Jindal then I’d rather vote for Obama again.
Sarah Palin is too stupid to be president.
timncguy
@Gayalltheway: Please STOP giving Obama a pass on this.
Yes, congress needs to pass legislation to repeal DOMA and DADT.
But, on DADT Obama could issue an executive stop loss order to stop the dismissals while waiting for congress to pass the legislation.
And, on BOTH DOMA and DADT, Obama’s promise was to be a FIERCE advocate. That means by definition that Obama should be prodding congress to act along WITH us and not simply be waiting for US to convince congress to act.
His promise means that he is supposed to be working to get the legislation passed, not simply waiting for it to cross his desk.
PJ
So much for “Change.” I think when he was talking about “Change in America,” he may have been referring to pocket change. That is what we all have about now. Obama is turning out to be a big disappointment for all of us on all kinds of levels.
Makes me think of the old adage,
“The more things ‘change,’ the more they stay the same.”
hmmmmmm
timncguy
@GJR: That is EXACTLY what Obama’s position is. He is perfectly fine with any state deciding that they would like to continue to discriminate.
BradK
@BradK: OK, so Joe Sudbay and John Arvonasis are two lawyers that have been blogging on this over at AmericaBlog. They’re as pissed off as most of us and seem to have a good grasp on the legal issues at play. Here’s a quick piece that says basically that Team Obama did have a choice to not defend DOMA (let alone defend it with such despicable verve), yet chose to anyway.
“Our president had a choice. And he chose to throw us under the bus, and then knife us for good measure.”
http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/obama-doj-lies-to-politico-in-defending.html
Truly, the endless fountain of lies from this administration would make a Clinton blush.
DuttyBarb
@Gayalltheway…That is by far the smartest thing i have ever read on this website. I am very happy pple like u exist and pray that many more LGBT come to your way of thinking.
fifi
@Gayalltheway: THANK YOU
Rudy
@Mark in Colorado: So you’d vote for Hitler?
Really – you’d rather send your gay brothers to a concentration camp?
Start a world war and cause the death of millions of people?
Are we men intent on winning equal rights or just drama queens?
GJR
@mikeincleveland:
Um, guess what then. If Obama didn’t want to stand up for these things, how about being honest and not making these promises. But he did. He campaigned on change. I’m sorry, I’m not going to sit back at the back of the bus with a party that will not stand up for my civil rights because it is inconvenient to do so.
It took a hell of a lot of struggle to get civil rights for African Americans in this country too. Lyndon Johnson said the Civil Rights Act would mean losing the south for a generation. But a big, bold move had to be taken by the president to make it happen. Just as Truman made a big, bold move to desegregate the military.
I’m not going to stand up for a president who himself won a victory by breaking down social barriers but won’t help others whose civil rights are affected. I not standing up for a president who thinks GM, the banks, giving speeches in Cairo are more important than my civil rights. Will not do it.
It took Fanny-Mae Hamer (sp.?) to stand up to the Democrats at a convention to demand that they start to recognize civil rights.
Like African Americans, the gay community will not simply give its votes away, they must be earned. And the GLBT voting block is just as large as the Jewish voting block. We contributed millions of dollars to political campaigns and thousands of hours of time in activism. I won’t be doing it again until my civil rights have been addressed.
GJR
@Michael W.:
Stupid comments all the way if you are not being sarcastic. It’s not about being cute or whatever, it is about who will help advance your civil rights. By the way, Jindal is Indian, you may want to do some basic reading. I will never vote for a Republican but I will not vote for Obama again if there are not some major changes.
Gayalltheway
You are very welcome, FIFI and thanks, DuttyBarb. I just think it’s important that we look at the issue at hand from multiple perspectives and not shout at the first sight of trouble. I also want to note that we should give Obama some credits for being able to make a distinction between himself, as a US citizen with his own personal views on all these issues, and also as the POTUS who upholds his responsibility to defend all the existing laws and statutes of the US even though he disagrees with them. Make sure you find out who your Reps and Senators are and start contacting them en masse! Tell them if they don’t support the repeal of either DADT and DOMA then they will not get your vote next election! Clear and simple! We want DADT and DOMA repealed ASAP!
GJR
@Tom in Lazybrook:
I think that is what 99% of the people here are saying. I will never vote GOP unless it changes about 1000% in my lifetime and becomes better than Dems. But I will not check of a box for Barack Obama, I will not give money to his campaign, I will not phone bank or canvas. And I will only be giving to candidates who have taken a positive stance on these issues.
GJR
@fifi:
Such bullshit, he will never please us. Um, how about he keeps the campaign promises he made. How about, when you campaign on change, you do things we are just and right and not politically expedient? I’m sorry, but I think it is a basic right of two people to do what they want to do. I am personally willing to compromise on marriage as long as there are civil unions in each state that give the same protections as marriage.
And instead of taking the stance “he will never please us”, should he start to do ONE thing before he would say that. It’s not as if he had a list of 8 major things he wanted to do, did them all, and we are still all complaining. He hasn’t done one thing for the GLBT community since he got into office except issue nice press releases. But god knows its more important for him to reach out to Muslims in other countries (an action I support 1000%, but it should not come before me and my civil rights, as an American citizen.)
Vanhattan
@Gayalltheway: LOL, good one.
You know, you can support Obama and his gay bashing all the way but stop acting like such a victim when you and Obama get called on their contempt for Gay and Lesbian Americans.
What you don’t realize is that not only do self respecting GLBTQ people take this latest Obama move as a personal ‘fuck you’, many straight people who are for equal civil rights do too.
I was almost content and accepting that Obama would do nothing for The Gays, but I certainly did not expect for him to bash The Gays via official government policy just as much as the Bush administration did.
It is a rather sad day in hell when the extreme far right…e.g. Dick Cheney, is now far to the LEFT of Obama when it comes to Same Sex Marriage and civil equality under the law.
Shame on you and shame on Obama for this latest OUTRAGEOUS ATTACK on the sensibilities of GLBTQ persons and their supporters.
Just because you are so far up Obama’s ass that you cannot see what grave harm Obama is doing to our community does not mean that everyone who calls him on his bs is a troll. On the contrary, your posts seem like they are being written by a ROVE wanna be troll.
Obama’s latest actions (DOJ DOMA brief) are quite indefensible and you show your true colors by not acknowledging the same. I dare you to insert “Jew, AA, Women, Special Needs, etc.” in the DOJ brief where “Gay & Lesbian” appear. If you take the time to do this, it is quite shocking and morally repungent. No one except for maybe a white supremacist or other such person would defend such statements or policy. It is quite appaling and quite contemptible that you and Obama do.
GJR
@vernonvanderbilt:
Well said. So many people here have this attitude that we are just no important enough for the pres to worry his little head about. He has important things to do, like having the Steelers come to the White House.
timncguy
@Gayalltheway: Clear and simple, we ALSO WANT Obama to be the FIERCE ADVOCATE for the repeal of these issues that he promised to be ASAP! Why are you so willing to give on that part of the issue?
And, to your other point, the Obama admin was not legally required to defend DOMA. Check some sites with some legal expertise. And, even if they chose to defend DOMA, they weren’t required to fill the brief with every homophobic talking point they could think of. But, that’s what you get for having an anti-gay Mormon bigot write the brief.
GJR
@LowPassFilter:
I have written to all of my reps. I have written to fathers’ reps in California. But it also comes down to Obama and the promises he made. The promise to close Gitmo was not popular, quite a political fire storm, but he did it. No one is expecting a miraculous change overnight. What we are expecting is something to START so there can be real progress in a year or two. Waiting until he wins in 2012 is not an option. We need to see some initial action now for there to be real results in even a year.
timncguy
@GJR: You are wrong that Obama hasn’t done one thing for us. He has done several. But, they have been negative.
He made marriage equality in Iowa the butt of a joke at the Annual Correspondant’s Dinner.
He made the protestors outside his CA fund raiser the butt of a joke to his audience there on the day the CA Supreme Court ruling came down.
Why was Obama forced to apologize for an inadvertant joke about the Special Loympics on the Leno show, but was not even ASKED for an apology when he made intentional jokes about gay equality issues?
The only somewhat positive action Obama has made was to issue the pride proclamation. And, if you read it closely it contains a call to action. But, it calls for action by the people and congress. It doesn’t include Obama in the action. It should have called for the people and congress to JOIN HIM in taking action. Bet, it conveniently left him out of it. Because, that would have menat being the fierce advocate he promised to be.
GJR
@LowPassFilter:
You also must understand that the president has to take decisive action himself. President Truman desegregated the military. That was the first step in a difficult battle for civil rights for African Americans.
Johnson was behind the Civil Rights Act, something that indeed lost southern votes for more than a generation.
Kennedy intervened against George Wallace in Alabama because they ignored the ruling of the Supreme Court.
There are things a president can do and must do at times. Obama may wait for congress on DADT but how about at least stopping the current firings and witchhunts going on against military personnel, including Arabic language specialists, in a time of war? It would take 10 minutes to issue a moratorium of this sort.
GJR
@timncguy:
Well, that and the fact that he did not prohibit Hillary from extending benefits to the same-sex partners of diplomats, which he could of done. But that is pretty damn meager and something I’d credit Hillary for more than him.
GJR
@timncguy:
That is the problem, Obama would love all of this stuff to happen, he just doesn’t want to have to do the work or spend any political capital doing it. If Obama only had a magic wand and not have to show any courage or guts on a politically difficult issue, it would all be great…
GJR
@timncguy:
Don’t forget the classic one. The Gene Robinson incident. “Oh, we just didn’t understand that if you put a speaker up 10 minutes before air time with no cameras rolling, he won’t appear on the broadcast..” Yeah right. This from the man who went from his taped informercial to a live feed at a campaign rally with split-second precision.
GJR
@mikeincleveland:
Clinton koolaid? What the fuck are you talking about? The Clinton record on GLBT issues sucked. One of his pointmen on this issue who got increasingly hostile to gays was Rahm Emmanuel. Name sound familiar?
And who gives a shit if Clinton is kinda/maybe supporting it now. Makes no difference. He didn’t want to stick his neck out when his wife was running but is leaving a door open should she choose to run in 2016, when we will get the same big promises again.
USinUK
WTF is that headline?? How disappointing Queerty.
It’s a good thing the queens posting here won’t reproduce or they’d surely eat their young. It’s politics and Obama is wise not to follow the Bill Clinton path immediately pandering to special interests, even if we would wish him to. We have seen the backlash and damage that approach brings. Obama’s ultimately a politician and far better for gays than any other viable presidential option we had/have, so now we need to lobby and deal with him, not vilify him.
(I hear Dick Cheney thinks ‘people oughtta be able to enter into any kind of relationship they’d like’. Would any of you vote for him? Don’t be myopic!)
Todd
Any gay person still defending Obama is suffering from a textbook case of Stockholm Syndrome wherein people, in the original case workers in a bank kidnapped by robbers for six days, come to emotional bond with and defend those who victimize them.
Summer’s here, gay pride celebrations all across the country already begun. If the administration started tracking down gay tourists, tested them for HIV and immediately deported anyone testing positive would you still defend them.
After all, they’d just be following the LAW.
Vanhattan
Obama & DOJ (Fuck You Very Much) Lyrics by Lilly Allen.
Today, I just can’t find any better words for Obama and his contempt for The Gays than these:
Look inside, look inside your tiny mind
and look a bit harder
cause we’re so uninspired
so sick and tired
of all the hatred you harbor
so you say it’s not okay to be gay
well I think you’re just evil
you’re just some racist who can’t tie my laces
you’re point of view is medieval
Fuck you, fuck you very very much
cause we hate what you do
and we hate your whole crew
so please don’t stay in touch
fuck you, fuck you very very much
cause your words don’t translate
and it’s getting quite late
so please don’t stay in touch
do you get, do you get a little kick out of being small-minded?
you want to be like your father
it’s approval you’re after
well that’s not how you’ll find it
do you, do you really enjoy living a life that’s so hateful
cause there’s a hole where your soul should be
you’re losing control of it
and it’s really distasteful
Fuck you, fuck you very very much
cause we hate what you do
and we hate your whole crew
so please don’t stay in touch
Fuck you, fuck you very very much
cause your words don’t translate
and it’s getting quite late
so please don’t stay in touch
Look inside, look inside your tiny mind
and look a bit harder
cause we’re so uninspired
so sick and tired
of all the hatred you harbor
Fuck you, fuck you very very much
cause we hate what you do
and we hate your whole crew
so please don’t stay in touch
Fuck you, fuck you very very much
cause your words don’t translate
and it’s getting quite late
so please don’t stay in touch
Centurian
Avoid black christians who associate with homophobic preachers. Lesson learned.
Fitz
I am not sure if I should go to Pride this year, because if I see one of my brothers or sisters wearing a Barak shirt, I am going to end up 5150’d.
GJR
@USinUK:
Bullshit. Obama made some specific promises. Now almost 6 months into his administration, he has done NADA. ZERO. ZILCH. No one is asking him to do anything drastic. Learn from the mistakes of the Clinton Whitehouse on DADT. My take is, they should do a series of town meetings around the country. Have Joe Biden go with his son Beau Biden. Have gay and straight soldiers speak and say that it makes no difference. Have them make rational arguments like, a) military personnel gay/straight are not permitted to engage in sexual activities while on duty b) with the current philosophy, women should not serve in the military either, because there could be sexual misconduct, rape etc. which would destroy the cohesion of the unit. How about telling Americans that 50 thousand dollars was spent training X specialist who was fired but had an exemplary record. How about pointing out that XYZ million dollars has been lost in training and other costs through the 13,000 dismissals.
How about point out that we are at a time of war and need people who are Arabic language specialists or that in a time of war, when the numbers joining the military are declining, we are kicking out people who WANT to serve. I think if these points were made clear for a year or 2, minds would be changed.
Oh, and by the way, even a majority of church-going religious Republicans supports repealing DADT. This is NOT the same environment as 1993.
But Obama has done exactly NOTHING to get the ball rolling.
Vanhattan
@Fitz: lol
GJR
@Fitz:
The problem is, too many brothers and sisters are in their own little worlds. Don’t wanna know about politics, I just wanna talk about what’s his face on American Idol. We need to be more cohesive and more aware as a community. Go down to your average bar on a Saturday night and see how many people would want to even be bothered with such an issue.
True, this is also the case among the general population re political issues but for us as a community to be effective, we really need people to really start thinking about the issues and get involved. A few well-attended protests just before certain politicians get elected would certainly raise a few eyebrows.
We also need to point out we are as big a voting block as the Jewish vote and have contributed millions of dollars to Barack Obama and devoted thousands of hours helping him to get elected.
GJR
@Todd:
Well, the Obama admin could do that, but they’d write a nice press release about how they love us.
Michael W.
@GJR: It’s about whatever the fuck I want it to be about. It’s my vote and I think Mitt Romney is sexy. One of the very few older men I find attractive.
But he’s a Mormon so they say it would be hard for him to get the Republican nomination. I hope he makes it though. He’ll get a lot more gay votes than McCain could.
GJR
@Michael W.:
This is some sort of parody, I guess. Unless you really are that vapid and uninformed.
Gayalltheway
@Vanhattan: So what do you propose that we, the LGBT community do? March? Protest? Name-calling? Grow up. Honestly, I know you are frustrated and disappointed and mad as hell to the latest DOJ’s brief defending DOMA. I feel just as angered and frustrated and disappointed (in fact, words can’t explain the hurt I felt when I first read it) but honestly, you think that name-calling and directing all kinds of derogatory words towards the POTUS will make everything better. You are pretty close-minded if that’s the case. And also no better than the white supremacist who shot Dr. George Tiller because they differ in opinions about abortion. And when did we become so fragile that we quickly side with the first person who shows a slight support for our community no matter who that person is? I mean, Dick Cheney. He has a lesbian daughter. DO you think he thought of you when he said he thinks that people should be allowed to get into any kind of contract or unions if they want to? He did not say “I support same-sex marriage and that we should legalize same-sex marriage immediately”. So if Rush Limbaugh says that he supports the repeal of DADT, are you going to say that he’s a hero and fierce advocate for the LGBT community?
I know that you want someone who fights for LGBT rights like from day one no matter what the consequences are. And I want that too, but face the reality, IT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!! We are not going to get someone like Harvey Milk elected as the POTUS and that’s an inevitable truth. This is politic and we are dealing with politicians. I think you are wrong in saying that I am defending the DOJ-DOMA thing. And I also know that the DOJ is not obligated to defend the DOMA challenge. But there’s one important point that you are missing, if the case challenging DOMA reaches the SCOTUS, the ruling can be in our favor or it can hurt us even more. A Supreme Court ruling on any issue can last for decades. Do you want the case to reach the Supreme Court now with Scalia, Roberts and co. to rule that DOMA is constitutional and kill the only chance of getting DOMA repealed which is thru the Congress. The Congress will not touch on DOMA again for many years if the Supreme Court has ruled on it. IMO, it is a huge gamble to let the case reaches the Supreme Court. Please consult any person with some legal expertise and he/she will say the same thing. I think the DOJ’s brief is appalling, insidious, hurtful, etc but what I am trying to do here is to channel all these negative energy into positive ones so that we can actually do something useful with it. There’s no point sitting here and talk and comment and counter-comment because in the end, it does not accomplish anything. There are actually many things that we can do to make repealing DADT and DOMA a reality and that’s through the Congress. Why is that so difficult to get across? Do you disagree that only the Congress has the power to make laws? If so, then I think our conversation is pretty much dead because clearly you don’t understand politics and how laws are made in your own country. You can keep threatening to vote for Republicans, or mud throwing, or call Obama names for all that matters if it makes you feel much better about yourself.
I am very amused by all of you who said that Obama is not doing anything about DADT or DOMA but you won’t say specifically what he should do. Like maybe he should declare that DOMA and DADT are no longer in effect? Or he personally removes them from the US statutes? How? Please tell us because I would like to know as well what do you propose that Obama should do regarding both issues.
OK – I’m waiting for responses…..
GJR
@Gayalltheway:
I think you comments are pretty unfair. Um, expressing anger at Obama’s actions is the same as someone who went out and MURDERED a doctor? I’ve seen no one here advocating violence against the president or anyone else. I do see anger. And yes, the words bigot and politician do come to mind with Obama. Starting way back with Donnie McClurkin, Obama has shown that, when push comes to shove, he will side against the GLBT community.
And Cheney? Puhlease. No one with a brain would believe that or even belief his sincerity. Cheney said what he did because he has a lesbian daughter. But the bigger issue is, they love to pull out the “state rights” stuff whenever convenient. That means, see, Mississippi never has to give its queers rights and that’s all fine. So if your partner gets sick in Massachusetts, you could maybe visit him. But not in Alabama. Funny how we don’t have these same states rights things about, say, blacks going to the same school as whites etc. These things are regulated by federal law because things as basic civil rights should not be left up to whether a Democrat or Republican governor is in office. Because if you do, you get a situation like in California, where the public can vote to take away civil rights from some group and then you get this latest ruling that says 18,000 gays and lesbians in California have special rights which other gays and lesbians do not enjoy.
schlukitz
@Tallskin:
Obama’s having spit and shat in the faces of gay America, reminded me of the old adage.
There are only two kinds of people on this earth; the shiters and the shat upon.
No member of the latter group, he.
InExile
Watch this video from Daily Kos for those of you who forgot Obama’s promises.
http://www.dailykostv.com/w/001841/
timncguy
@Gayalltheway: It’ srather disingenuous for you to claim that no one here has said what they want Obama to do.
1. Issue an executive stop loss order ending the DADT firings.
2. Use the bully pulpit as promised to fiercely advocate to the congress and tell them to get off their asses and start the process of repealing DADT since there is 69% approval in the country for repeal.
3. Use the bully pulpit to get the senate off their ass to pass Hate Crimes legislation since the House has already done so. Once passed and signed into law sexual orientation and gender identity will become legal suspect classes. This would kill off some of the arguments made in the DOMA brief.
4. Use the bully pulpit as promised to start gathering public and congressional support for the repeal of DOMA and for the other legislation he claimed to support such as fully inclusive ENDA.
Obama could do ALL of the above with one speech similar to the speech he gave in Philadelphia about race during the primaries.
Where you say you know we want someone who fights for LGBT rights on day one… You seem to have forgotten that is EXACTLY what Obama promised he would do. He said he would strt the repeal process for DADT on his first day in office.
The biggest issue I have with your posts is that you willingly refuse to admit that Obama promised to be a fierce advocate and use his powers of the bully pulpit. You willing let him put everything onto congress and blame them for the lack of progress. He is the head of the democratic party. and, he is supposed to be prodding congress WITH us.
schlukitz
@GJR:
I’m with you, GJR.
I knew that Gayalltheway was not on our side when he posted the following.
“and thanks, DuttyBarb.”
Anyone who is “honored” to be acknowledged by that twisted twat, has to be either desperate for support…or a very lonely guy.
Maybe both?
GJR
@InExile:
Everybody should watch this. What was it they said about smooth Willie? This is all-talk Barack. Yes, yes, I know, we should all wait and wait, he has more Muslim countries to reach out to, more banks to bail out, more sports teams to greet at the White House. How could our silly civil rights be as important as any of that?
schlukitz
@InExile:
@timncguy:
@GJR:
I really don’t believe that people like Gayalltheway, Nuttybarb, et all, are in the least interested in looking at or reading anyhing that does not support their limited viewpoints and anti-homosexual agenda.
I mean, what reasonable rebuttal could these people make in the face of such damning evidence of the promises that O made, without making themselves look any more idiotic than then have already made themselves look?
Y’all keep forgetting. These people do not deal in irrefutable facts. They deal in fabrication, disingenuous lies and the twisting of facts, as it suits them, to win their arguments.
I would just love to hear their reply to that video. In fact, I challenge them to even try to explain what O “really meant”.
Bring it on. It should be a beaut!
InExile
@GJR: What do you mean? He gave us a civil right, he invited us to the Easter Egg Roll, you must have forgot! Who needs equal rights when you get Easter Eggs?
Gaythetheway
@schlukitz: That’s called manners. When people compliment or agree to some of your points (yes it might be a surprised for you but even if the person who compliments you disagrees with you most of the time), you generally acknowledge it by expressing some harmless gratitude. Honestly, if you care to notice some of my posts, I am usually very critical of DuttyBarb and also people whom I disagree with. But then again, most of you choose to pick what I’ve said and commented on the things that you disagree with and not look at my comment as a whole. Typical. This is what most drama queens crave for. Controversy! Play sides even though someone whom you disagree raises some good points. And you complaint about not being acknowledged for being gay. Stop being so childish and petty and actually take your “opponents” seriously. Disagree with me. Convince me that you have a reasonable argument. Then comes the personal attacks. Again, predictable. Oh he’s desperate for support, oh he’s lonely – honestly, you want to be acknowledged for resorting into that kind of attacks when your arguments are being challenged?
We need to move on to a more stimulating, engaging and challenging discussion which I believe that we all are manage to handle.
Sapphocrat
To no one in particular — except the countless Obama fans who called me a racist, a Hillbot, a Republican troll, and worse… oh, yes, and especially the one who came to my blog and told me to jam a stick of dynamite up my vagina —
Maybe next time, you’ll fucking listen.
Sign me,
Proud as hell to have voted for McKinney, and sick to my stomach that I was right about DObaMA from Day One
GJR
@InExile:
Not just that, he had that nice press release a few days ago. We should be proud! Of course, we have less rights and are considered less important than Muslims living in other countries, but hey, we should be proud.
USinUK
@Gayalltheway: Well said, I agree with you completely. There’s not much sense on this post today. This will pass, people will calm the fuck down, and we’ll continue to lobby support and pressure the administration.
And as you correctly stated, when the time is right we will have our result on this issue because we will have brought it to the people and to our government, not because the President did it for us. The tide has turned on this issue, but we’ll blow it if we behave like lunatics.
SHAME ON QUEERTY for stoking the flames with your inflammatory headlines, in my view behaving no better than Farce News! If they didn’t publish such hot half-naked pictures I’d stop visiting altogether. 😉
schlukitz
@Gaythetheway:
Umm…still waiting for your comments on the video link that InExile posted and which you chose to ignore.
timncguy
@Gaythetheway: you asked for a list of what we want Obama to do. I gave you the list of what we want Obama to do. You ignored it.
schlukitz
And we hear from yet one more “Sit down you silly fairies; you’re rocking the fucking boat.” types.
“SHAME ON QUEERTY for stoking the flames with your inflammatory headlines”
And I’ll just bet that you also think that Harvey Milk was a “lunatic” who blew it and set the gay movement back at least 50 years. No waiter for “when the time is right”, Harvey.
“If they didn’t publish such hot half-naked pictures I’d stop visiting altogether. ;-)”
Well, at least you’re not disingenuous about your reasons for coming onto Queerty.com.
Gaythetheway
@timncguy: I agree that those are the things that Obama can and should do to help get things moving. And some of them are exactly what I want Obama to do.
As to previous discussion and postings, I am unsure what is stopping Obama from issuing an executive order to stop the discharging of military servicemen/women. I’ve come across legal opinions from both sides of the argument which is whether or not it is possible for the President to do so because DADT has actually become a law and not just a policy. Clearly issuing this kind of executive order has never happened before and I hope that the DOJ is still looking at the legality of it. As to your 2,3 & 4 points, I only have one question; how do we know if Obama hasn’t done that already?I believe that a lot of deals are being made between the WH and Capitol Hill that we, the citizens, aren’t aware of. Do you think that Obama will issue a statement every time he talks to Pelosi or Reid about these issues? Maybe Obama has already been talking to Speaker Pelosi and Majority leader Reid about the approach and discuss whether or not both House and Senate have the votes to pass these legislation. As we all know, the Democrats have the majority in the House and they can pass any of these bills unquestionably but there’s still the Senate, which I think is the case with the Hate Crime legislation. The Democrats don’t have the 60 votes yet to stop a filibuster by the Republicans. We are still waiting for the Minnesota SC to make a ruling and seat Al Franken in the Senate. Then, perhaps we will get enough votes in the Senate to get all these bills to pass.
Regarding DADT and how he said he would start the repealing process, actually he has already started but it might bot be how we want it to be but started nonetheless. He has asked for further reviewing of opinions by ranking generals in the military and the overall support for the repeal of DADT. I think whether or not he gets the support of the currently serving generals in the military, he will go ahead and sign it when Congress passes the bill. In a way, I admit the “starting process” is sort of a smoke screen to delay it until the Congress passes such legislation. Again, this is politics.
As to the speech that you mentioned, I have to say that maybe that is just wishful thinking. Or I can be wrong. It would be a great gesture of support if he is willing to do so but I don’t see that a speech like that would change people’s views on homosexuality. It can be a speech about tolerance and maybe equality but to spend time addressing about sexuality will just prove to be another ammunition for the Republicans to use. I still believe that things will change dramatically after Al Franken is seated in the Senate and only time will tell.
ps- I have to stress that I am not defending the DOJ’s brief on DOMA and Obama’s inaction for a lot of things. I am just trying to put a different perspective into the whole ordeal and why Obama is still on our side. And it’s only been 6 months since Obama is in the WH and you all seem to have lost all hopes – how did you guys survive the past eight years??
Addyboo
The lesson is not to be a knee-jerk voter. I do not get why blacks and gays automatically vote Democratic. Democratic politicians were against equal rights for blacks for decades, yet somehow blacks think Democrats are the black party. It’s rediculous.
I have voted Republican mostly, but only because I think the less gub’ment intrusion into our lives the better. It’s unfortunate that Obama was able to pull the wool over so many eyes. At the end of the day, he is a politician and could not care less about you or me, so long as he gets votes.
Having said that, and after having read most of the comments on this thread, I am overjoyed that you guys are FINALLY giving the President as much hell as you’ve given to the former Miss California.
Sara Bruno
I’ve been working my way through the motion, and it seems like all one would need to do to remedy the situation is bring forward complaints from couples who were married in states which recognize gay marriage and then moved to states which did not. The Smelt case does not provide this. Each couple which gets married needs to apply for any benefits they can which would traditionally be reserved for same-sex marriages, especially those couples now living in states which do not recognize their marriage. Then, they’ll have a actual basis for challenging DOMA.
Perhaps, if you find a case that actually warrants courts attention, ie cannot possibly be dismissed as easily as DOMA can, Obama will be able to get behind the legality of the issues. If he stands up for Smelt, he’ll face rebuke from Democrats and Republicans and the entire issue will become even more mired in partisanship. And if you give naysayers a case which they cannot legal dismiss and are left with religion or some such biased rhetoric as their only argument, it will further the legitimacy of the gay fight for equality. Whereas, pursing a flimsy case will only stand to injure it.
It may be the case that Obama is standing against Gay marriage as rooted in some long held religious belief, but the fact of the matter is, he is what we have to work with. So, we have to work. We have to keep on. The best way to do this is through lobbying and fighting through the entangled court system. That is the best way for us to take on the legality of DOMA and anything like it.
Gaythetheway
@Sara Bruno: Your comment is spot on especially about the Smelt case. It’s insightful and shows that you have taken the time to actually digest the information provided and why the DOJ’s brief is actually beneficial to us. BUT, the language and examples (i.e. incestry and pedophilia references) used in the argument are very insipid and almost vile.
Gaythetheway
When I said “beneficial”, it doesn’t mean that it’s OK to compare our relationship to incest, pedophilia, etc. Again, it is unacceptable and demented for them to make that comparison. Beneficial in a political way for the repeal of DOMA through Congress or at least for another case with a different situation, such as put forth by Sara where “couples who were married in states which recognize gay marriage and then moved to states which did not” which will provide a stronger basis to challenge DOMA in the Supreme Court.
timncguy
@Gaythetheway: as to numbers 2, 3 & 4.. we know has isn’t doing those because those are PUBLIC actions, not backroom secret dealings. You will note I said use the bully pulpit to bring along BOTH the public and the congress.
The use of the Bully Pulpit is intended to bring public pressure to bear on politicians from their constituents. That can’t be done in private.
timncguy
@Sara Bruno: that case is made up of TWO parts. It is not just asking for the marriage to be recognized in other states.
It is also asking for the federal benefits to be given to the legally married gay couple in the state where they were married, right?
I don’t see how anyone can say they don’t have “standing” for the federal benefits complaint.
Rain
@James Davis:
Thank you.
Rain
@timncguy:
The “Bully Pulpit”, a term first used by Theodore Roosevelt, is a political tool used by politicians who use the power of their offices to persuade public opinion.
Gaythetheway
@schlukitz: OK. I have seen the video and I have watch, listen and digest the content of the video. What would you like me to comment on? I think in general the video is about the promises that Obama has made on LGBT issues during the presidential campaign. The usual he supports “full civil unions” for gay couples that give them “full benefits on the federal level”. He wants to do it “because it is the right thing to do” and also when he reads the “scriptures, he wonders what would Jesus do if a person is not allowed to visit his partner when the partner is sick in the hospital” and he also mentions multiple times about the “1200 benefits for married staright couples that are not accessible to gay couples at the moment” which shows that he actually knows a little about DOMA and the impact on gay couples. I do have to admit there’s a part where he said that he “will make, presumably repealing DOMA as one of his top priorities among other things” is a little misleading and I think it’s a little vague by saying “top priorities” because we don’t know what is the time frame for his “top priorities” to be accomplished. Other than that, the one main thing that is stopping him from accomplishing or fulfilling his promises is DOMA and clearly, we all agree that DOMA has to go. So now it’s up to us, pressuring the Congress, and him, getting his pen ready to sign that piece of legislation that will eventually give us the recognition we all deserve. Back to the question, then why is he defending DOMA in the DOJ’s brief? Please look at Sara Bruno’s comment about the specifics of the Smelt case and also my comment #107, #158, @LowPassFilter comment #108, etc.
Rain
@DuttyBarb:
Troll.
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com
@Gaythetheway:
“the DOJ’s brief is actually beneficial to us.”???
You’re simply retarded!
It can’t be both vile AND good for us any more than an object can go up AND down at the same time. You cannot save the village by burning it down.
Jon Davidson, Legal Director at Lambda Legal, said this to journalist Karen Ocamb:
“Whether or not the administration felt a need to defend, there are many ways one can defend. The administration could have rested on the first two arguments raised in their papers (jurisdiction and standing) that these plaintiffs were not entitled to sue without arguing at this point that DOMA is constitutional. Doing that would not have waived those arguments. What they need to be asked is why they gratuitously went out of their way to make the outrageous arguments they UNNECESSARILY included such as that DOMA DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE based on sexual orientation or that the right at issue is not marriage but an unestablished right to “same-sex marriage” or that DOMA is somehow justified in order to protect taxpayers who don’t want their tax dollars used to support lesbian and gay couples (while it’s apparently fine to make lesbians and gay men pay the same taxes but be denied the benefits provided heterosexual couples). Their public statements about the filing try to sidestep these points. THEY ABSOLUTELY KNEW THEY DID NOT need to make these additional arguments, especially at this time and consciously decided to do so. I am seething mad.”
AND, in the press released cosigned by THE legal professionals who have been responsible, separately and in combination for EVERY LGBT legal advance in the past 35 years, Lambda Legal, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Center for Lesbian Rights, and Gay & Lesbian Advocates & Defenders:
“The administration is using many of the same flawed legal arguments that the Bush administration used. These arguments rightly have been REJECTED by several state supreme courts as LEGALLY UNSOUND AND OBVIOUSLY DISCRIMINATORY.
We disagree with many of the administration’s arguments, for example that DOMA is a valid exercise of Congress’s power, is consistent with Equal Protection or Due Process principles, and does not impinge upon rights that are recognized as fundamental.
We are also extremely disturbed by a NEW AND NONSENSICAL argument the administration has advanced suggesting that the federal government needs to be “neutral” with regard to its treatment of married same-sex couples in order to ensure that federal tax money collected from across the country not be used to assist same-sex couples duly married by their home states. There is nothing “neutral” about the federal government’s discriminatory denial of fair treatment to married same-sex couples: DOMA wrongly bars the federal government from providing any of the over one thousand federal protections to the many thousands of couples who marry in six states. This notion of “neutrality” ignores the fact that while married same-sex couples pay their full share of income and social security taxes, they are prevented by DOMA from receiving the corresponding same benefits that married heterosexual taxpayers receive. It is the married same-sex couples, not heterosexuals in other parts of the country, who are financially and personally damaged in significant ways by DOMA. For the Obama administration to suggest otherwise simply departs from BOTH MATHEMATICAL AND LEGAL REALITY.”
[img]http://blog.syracuse.com/metrovoices/2008/06/obama.jpeg[/img]
Rain
@ben:
Hold on, mama.
Your guy took us for a ride and we should overlook it cuz he’s black. That’s what I’m getting.
Hell fuckin nah nah. White, black, Latino, Asian, it doesn’t matter.
The Constitution gives us all the right to protest in redress of grievances. We have a grievance. How we chose to protest is up to us.
Whether you disagree with that protest is also your right. But don’t fan the flames of minority vs. minority cuz it ain’t gonna get you nowhere no how.
Rain
@ben:
By the way ben…
On his first day he signed a whole raft of executive orders doing away with Bush policies.
He could have done the very same thing with DADT, but he didn’t.
Explain that one?
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com
@Rain:
You’re on the right track, but, technically, he couldn’t have ENTIRELY “done away with” DADT because it’s a law.
HOWEVER, he had full legal power, mandatated by Congress, and going back in practice all the way to WWII when the ban was just a policy, to “stop-loss” or freeze discharges.
In 2005, the Pentagon admitted it was sending servicemembers it KNEW to be gay to Iraq IN VIOLATION of DADT.
Chris
For those who would like to take action against Obama’s recent disparaging remarks, the “Flip Flop” Campaign is still going on. At pride today, we had 77 people participate, and we’re expecting even more tomorrow. Quit bitching, start doing something.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Operation-DOMA-Flip-Flop-Campaign-to-make-sure-the-Prez-keeps-his-promise/77742317941?ref=ts
Gayalltheway
@Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com: A knee-jerk reaction again? I guess most people are still pretty upset and filled with raged thus not having the sensibility to actually process what others are trying to say. Didn’t you see the rest of the postings?
I am really trying very hard to talk to half-wits like you. Don’t jump on everything you read in the first few sentences before finish reading the whole comment or the follow-up comment in this case. Again ignoring other comments that might have raised some strong points just because they expressed different views than yours is exactly what I was talking about earlier.
I supposed when you read “DOJ’s might be beneficial to us!!! Wahh this is outrageous!! I need to call this person retarded because he said soemthing like this!!” thus ignoring the rest of the comment. Pity on your part because clearly you don’t have any kind of ability to engage in thoughtful and considerate discussion.
Fitz
I don’t fully understand the idea of how & why it could be beneficial to defend DOMA in this way (and with this language), but having zero legal training, I won’t rule out that it’s a possibility. However…. you have to look at the whole picture of a presidency which has over and over disappointed and enraged (and radicalized?) the GLBT population. We aren’t welcome at his table, and we need to get over the anger and pain of that reality and make a plan for how we will proceed. It’s much like a breakup, no? Eventually you have to stop hating your ex and just figure out what you want to do next.
chandler
OBAMA IS THE WORST PRESIDENT WE EVER HAD
ANYONE WHO THINKS HE WILL SAVE US IS LIVING IN A DREAM WORLD
HE DOESN’T CARE ABOUT THE GAYS, HE ONLY SAID THAT BECAUSE HE WANTED THE VOTES
dlpca
People, do not forget you have access and every right to voice your opinion directly to the administration and President Obama. Use this resource, use it often and depend upon it. If enough noise reaches the top change will happen. Do not give up on President Obama, although it may seem he has given up on you. Be heard!
President Obama is committed to creating the most open and accessible administration in American history. To send questions, comments, concerns, or well-wishes to the President or his staff, please use the link below to forward your comments, opinions and views directly to the White House:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
You can also call or write to the President:
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
Phone Numbers
Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: 202-456-2461
Dusty
Karl Rove for president!
Michael Mapes
@No we should vote for Hillary Clinton.
Fitz
@Michael Mapes: Maybe. But whoever we voted for, we should have not given them an automatic pass. No “I know he believes in equality, and will someday do something”. And as far as voting for Hillary: again, maybe. But she shouldn’t have lost the primary based believing that she was more political than Barak.
GJR
@Michael Mapes:
This Hillary as savior thing is a myth too. We had round 1 with her husband when he promised so much, then didn’t deliver. Bill and Hill weren’t for same sex marriage. Hell, Hill started saying shit like we’d obliterate Iran…because she thought that’s what people wanted to hear. Are you so certain she’d go out on a limb for us when everything she did was polled and weighed for best political effect? I somehow have my doubts.
Shannon
It’s time for the Republicans and Democrats to fade into history alongside the Whigs. I’ll be voting a straight Libertarian ticket in 2010 and 2012…
GJR
@Shannon:
Do as you please but Ron Paul was the biggest homophobe around. I THINK he was also anti-gay marriage. I know he is anti-choice. The Libertarians have never been particularly nice to the gays. They are all for the states rights thing, but that also means that 1 state can grant civil rights, 1 state can wait another 30 years. So, I guess we’d have integrated schools in Rhode Island and segregated schools in Alabama even today.
GJR
@Dusty:
Such stupidity. Because we are unhappy with Obama, we must ALL support the Republicans now. Yeah, right. That is why I am so fucking disappointed in Obama, I voted for real change, not “better than McCain..”, my garbage man would have been better than McCain..
GJR
@dlpca:
Yeah, maybe we’ll even get a nice hand-written note. I promise to keep my promises to the GLBT community – my promise being that they will always be invited to the Easter Egg Roll!
GJR
@Gayalltheway:
No one disputes that the DOJ had to defend existing law. The viciousness and the way they did it was what was hurtful. Or how about it coinciding with a statement from Obama that he’s working to repeal it, or a town hall meeting or a major policy speech
Also, another interesting point I read elsewhere: funny that when it comes down to prosecuting the Bush admin for war crimes and torture, stuff much more serious than this DOMA bullshit law, suddenly it wasn’t about the need to comply with the law. It was “well, it will cause divisions..”, “we need to move forward…” Funny how Obama feels the DOJ MUST comply with the law only when convenient.
TheJohnV
Libertarian for me too!!!
GJR
@Gaythetheway:
There is a difference between defending and defending with viciousness and zeal. Also, there are precedents when the DOJ did not defend..
Tony
Wow. One. Big. I TOLD YOU SO. Nothing to sparkle about, where are the Obamabots now. Dennis. LOL. Dumbass.
GJR
@Tony:
Hey, you have no guaranties Hillary would have been any better. Her husband certainly wasn’t. She cancelled an interview with America Blog because he planned to asked her about DOMA. She barely uttered the word gay. I really don’t see her as our great savior either. I also don’t see Edwards sticking his neck out for us. Funny how his great interest in the working poor coincided precisely with his election campaign.
Tony
@GJR
Umm. Where did I say I was shilling for Ms. Clinton??? I say only support candidates who support full equality. Nuff said.
Tony
Edwards was a douche too. But Barack is the most antigay douchebag ever. And Michelle can suck my ass crack.
Tony
I hate Obama, his saggy tits, Michelle’s man arms, their ugly spawn, their stupid dog, their poricine pal Rick Warren, their retarded gospel buddies Mary Mary and Donnie Mc Clurkin, their god is in da mix, their lies, fuck them. HATE OSAMA BIN BULLSHIT HUSSEIN OBAMA.
Tony
And Sparkle, LOL. Put on dat lip gloss and do some Michelle Obama drag.
Shannon
@GJR:
Say wha??? Ron Paul is a pro-life Republican. He hasn’t been affiliated with the Libertarian Party since the 1980’s. The Libertarians were the first political party to make gay equality an official part of their party platform way back in 1972.
Toby
I voted for Clinton twice and he let me down twice. I saw Obama doing the same thing as Bill Clinton so I didn’t vote for him. I removed the “gay” element from my vote and saw that I was more in sync with the republicans. I hated the Palin pick, but I didn’t like the Biden pick either. Next time you vote please stop and think about education, economy, international policy and all the other issues. You might might find when you drop the gay card that there are more important issues to consider.
Steve
@Ian:
No…next year 1/3 of all Senators and all of the House will be up for re-election. Let incumbents know you intend to support Democratic rivals that take gay rights seriously. Find people to run against incumbents.
Do this at the state level. Do this at the county level. Do this at the city and town level.
Synnerman
I sincerely hope you fuckers are so up in arms about other issues that affect gay men, namely the renewed AIDS epidemic (and pending disaster if California and other states cut state subsidized funds) and young people still get infected because of delusions about safety.
Gay America has spat and shit on itself and this article is formed of grossest hyperbole and political naivete that is more along the lines of Freeperville.
Thom
@Toby:
Exactly, which is why I won’t vote Republican until hell freezes over.
Synnerman
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/6/12/741817/-Obama-on-DOMA:-He-IS-Keeping-A-Promise
And a column by an actual attorney.
luciferosirisarnold
Down you bitches,lol Give the man a chance.
He can’t change years over night.
Gays never had it so good and the best is yet to come.
Tony
216 · luciferosirisarnold
Does you read da brief, is you edumacated. Give me a break. You loves you some Osama Bin Obama, I gets it. He hates the gays. Wake up.
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com
@Gayalltheway:
If you don’t want to be flamed for writing stupid comments don’t write stupid comments.
I’m not your fucking English teacher but, “the DOJ’s brief is actually beneficial to us” is part of a “declarative sentence” meaning you declare it to be true.
Again, that’s RETARDED.
SM
You all need to calm down with your extreme lashing out at Obama or you will hurt your own cause…IMO
When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative.
Martin Luther King Jr.
US black civil rights leader & clergyman (1929 – 1968)
Marcus
I agree with this post. I also agree with the bulk of the comments.
@Shawn, are you trying to spit out Barbara Erhenreich’s nonsense? Serena Joy is not a Queen Bee and either you didn’t read Atwood’s book or you don’t know what the term Queen Bee means. A Queen Bee is one of those women who takes pride in ‘thinking like a man’ and being the only woman with power in the room. In Atwood’s book, Serenea is as much a victim of the patriarchy as every other woman. I’ve seen a bunch of idiotic women rip apart Palin — that dumb professor at Sonoma for one — by abusing Atwood’s book and I don’t find it funny.
I can see why some would say they thought Barack was stronger on gay rights than Hillary because (a) he had no known record whereas she had Bill’s record attached to her and (b) he was so beloved by so many. Equally true, and let’s be really honest here, he had a cock. Let’s not pretend that it didn’t play into it and that some of us weren’t attracted to him. I know some of my lesbian friends supporting Hillary thought she was sexy as well.
But he screwed us. And he didn’t even buy us a drink. For a screwing, I demand a two drink minimum.
michael
Heed words of wisdom; Freedom is never, read it NEVER, voluntarily given by the oppressor, it must be demanded by the oppressed. Obama is part of the oppressor, he is not working for our good. Don’t be like a Jew in Germany and keep hoping that what is coming to pass isn’t going to happen. We have seen the enemy and that enemy is much broader and bigger than we banked on.
Make a plan, join a plan, the one that you relate to and fight This is not a game people, our lives, our dignity, our place in humanity is being determined here. Use your anger to energize yourself and the movement. Don’t allow it to just make you negative and hopeless, use it as motivation!
Ask your higher power to help you know what to do. Meditate to access your highest wisdom. Seek council from those who have fought this fight before us. Study Dr. King and those who fought with him. But do not lay down, do not give up. Obama is not our savior, we are our savior. Obama has just chosen one of the lowest paths of incarnation, that of a politician. He is a scumbag, they are all scumbags, men who seek power, prestige and the rewards of the ego. He is just another anti-christ.
But remember, there is a light within us, a light of truth, an energy of love and love is evolving here and love is going to win this, but we must BELIEVE in that love, that it exists, in its power. That power is what carried all great beings along, Gandhi, Dr. King, Jesus. It will carry all of us along if we ask it to. And don’t allow your anger to be shamed, just don’t allow it to turn to sour bitterness. Remember how we all felt when we watched the towers fall to the ground in New York? Before our government used our anger and twisted it to do evil itself? The anger that wanted justice, the anger that demanded that a stop be put to this outrageous behavior? That righteous anger is good and it is of love and do not allow even those that claim to be our own kind tell you any different.
Frandley
Is Obama afraid he would be giving the GOP an issue in 2010 to run on? The GOP has had great success in the past inciting the haters to go out and vote against Democrats.
He shouldn’t have anything to fear. If the economy recovers, which most think it will, the is not going to take back Congress. Even if it doesn’t recover, Obama should think more about what’s right, not what’s politically expedient.
Frandley
edit: I left out a word
“He shouldn’t have anything to fear. If the economy recovers, which most think it will, the GOP is not going to take back Congress.”
InExile
@michael: I agree with you! Only WE can bring Equality to ourselves, it will not be handed to us. Our country and our politicians are fine with us being treated like third class citizens, I am not. We need to fight and remember:
G……………….Good
A……………….As
Y……………….You
IT IS TIME TO DEMAND EQUALITY AND STOP ASKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
USinUK
@InExile:
Well said InExile. It’s up to us, not Obama. I’m living in the UK with my Dutch bf of 5-1/2 years who I’m desperate to bring back to the US with me, so I’ve got everything at stake in this issue. But I still don’t expect the President to hand it to me, I know we have to lobby and fight for it, and will continue to do so.
Until reading this string I didn’t realize that gays could be so hateful and turn on one another!! I feel sorry for some of your boyfriends if this is the mouth you kiss them with.
Everyone here needs to chill the fuck out. What good does it do frothing at the mouth attacking one another?? Even if you feel betrayed because you think Obama (or any other politician for that matter) owes you something…can’t you keep the dialogue mature and respectful at least? Fucks sake some of these posts sound no better than rants from Bill O’Reilly or Rush Limbaugh fans.
We’re better than them…so don’t allow yourselves to follow the path of hate and division, even if Queerty prompts you to.
DuttyBarb
Gaythetheway
This comment is for you as you appear to be the voice of reason and maturity here. Maybe you can advise your peeps.
I do not support gay marriage. It just does not make sense to do so as far as i am concerned. I fully support gays when it comes to DADT and ENDA(so far as this does not affect religious orgs that do not condone your lifestyle choices). Now here is the kicker, majority of Americans and pple all over the world agree me on this. Just because some irrelevant American celebrities( who are looking for fame than actually care for u people) are doing STOP H8 ads and public appearances for LGBT does not make this popular at all.
LGBT would like compare themselves to the civil rights movement of the 60s. Honey, don’t even!!. Here is what civil rights movement had that you do not:
1. Support of the majority(Yep, White folks and all other minorities came together to end this. And that put pressure on the Government to protect the innocent)
2. Religious groups backing(Muslim, Jews,Christian all came together to stop the hate. If you think u dont need their support then im not sure how u want to make wide spread change and support happen.)
3. Organization.(Strategically planned marches, rallies.)
Ive read all the hate laced, whiny crap people have posted here. Nothing says how they want to make the 3 points happen. Not one thing. Oh yeah, the march on Washington in October. My bad!!!
The Anti-Gays have so much on you its quite saddening and u know it. Do not let the fake polls deceive you. Ask 10 people in America(that vote by the way)that work down the street of diverse cities if they support Gay Marriage that will give u the true nature of what is going on. These are the Americans that have the power to vote on laws that will continue to rob you of rights. I mean duh Prop 8 in California.
Hate me all you want. I am just the voice of many. Thanks to the response of the DOJ on Thursday…anti-gays have adequate ammunition to cut you down any which way you turn using the law. This reactive nature of yours kills u people all the time. No proper planning just react and the reaction makes great news but zero impact on the minds of people.
Think about it
chapeau
When a bi-racial man – whose own parents would not have been allowed to marry in a dozen States prior to 1967 – does not acknowledge that it took the Federal Government acting to redefine marriage — then we cannot expect him to live up to his supposed support of LGBT Equality.
I gave him the benefit of the doubt – given his opponents in the last election – after all the alternative was anathema to our cause — but I fully expected once elected – and given his clout with the Democrats securely in control – that he would act to expand LGBT Equality …
Boy was I a fool for believing in the *yes we can* Change he proposed.
Shame on me. Shame on us all.
InExile
@USinUK: I know your desperation all too well. My bf of 14 years is French and we moved here (French Caribbean Island) 3 years ago from Los Angeles when his work visa expired. My name InExile is my reality.
I get so discouraged with the lack of outrage in our community because anger can and should be channeled into action. Our politicians do not care if we are third class citizens and neither do most Americans. Being passive will just bring us what we have now, nothing. I have been writing letters to our politicians for the last 3 years with only ONE response. Letters and lobbying is not working. We are completely on our own here. We need a new organization that is completely grassroots and peacefully militant like Act Up was during the AIDS crisis when our government was ignoring that.
Robert, NYC
@DuttyBarb:
First of all, religious cults, one of which you belong to obviously and you will probably deny it, does NOT own marriage, least of all civil marriage. The state secular government issues marriage licenses, not religious cults. If your primary reason to oppose same-sex marriage is based on the religious notion of one man and one woman for the purpose of procreation and I suspect it is though you will of course deny it as they all do to justify their reason to discriminate….then you and everyone else who opposes our right to a “civil” marriage would have to include heterosexuals who choose not to or can’t produce offspring. In addition, you would have to enact a law to compel widows and widowers with children to re-marry simply because children MUST be reared by two parents. In the catholic church for example, if two heterosexuals marry and choose not to have children…..one of the two parties can request an annulment. Maybe there should be a test prior to marriage to determine if couples can reproduce and if they can’t, ban them from marriage and those who choose not to procreate. This only illustrates the absurd notion of procreation as the primary reason to marry. It isn’t, its about love first and foremost. Procreation is a choice, its not mandated and contingent upon obtaining a civil marriage license either.
Robert, NYC
@Frandley:
Even if we weren’t in this economic mess, I for one don’t believe Obama would be addressing DADT and DOMA, let alone full equality. WE have and always will be the last priority. We are the last group that society can hate, discriminate against, ridicule and dehumanize, the latter being the m.o. of the religious right fanatics who vote for the party of hate including closeted self-loathing Log Cabiners who persistently vote for people who deny them equality.
Robert, NYC
@Toby:
If the issues you mentioned weren’t the issues of the day….do you really think we’d be any further along the road of equality? Don’t be naive….if you vote for the party of hate, you’re voting against yourself. You’re beginning to sound like the so called mythical “ex-gay”. As I’ve said in other posts, which legislation has the party of NO authored, sponsored and passed in favor of our rights, name one please? They’ve opposed ENDA since its inception and they call their party the party of inclusion? Please!
Robert, NYC
@Tony:
Hmmm, Tony……so you buy into that anti-muslim baiting crap and probably the other right wing smear that Obama isn’t a natural born American? Well…..last time I checked, John McCain was born in PANAMA to American parents, not even U.S. territory, an independent foreigh country. How come the right wingers didn’t go after that during his botched campaign? You didn’t hear any democrat using smear tactics about that either!
timncguy
@DuttyBarb: @Robert, NYC: The other glaring error in DuttyBarb’s comment is the contention that the civil rights movement of the 60s had popular support. Nothing could be further from the truth. When civil rights legislation was passed and enacted into law, the MAJORITY of americans OPPOSED it.
staciegirlie17
Are the authors and people who buy into this STUCK ON STUPID what?
Doe Obama have any choice to OBEY the law just like any other JOE BLOW citizen? What happens the 11-letter word that happens to Presidents who break the law and don’t follow the proper protocol? (Except for Bush–he got away with everything).
I will keep you guessing. Here’s a hint. 1st letter: I. Last letter: T, word that’s contained directly in the middle is the name of a fruit.
Fitz
@staciegirlie17: Obeying the law and vociferously defending it are not the same thing.
Robert, NYC
@timncguy:
Tim, you’re absolutely right and you know what, the right wing of the party of hate still can’t accept integration let alone an African American shaming them into the White House for all his faults, and he has plenty to go around.
Secondly…..it took the Supreme Court of the United States to repeal miscegenenation laws allowing African Americans the right to marry someone of another race, yet another law that bigots in the party of no and mostly all across the deep south still oppose. If it had been left to the states, there would be no civil rights for African Americans let alone other disenfranchised minorities, we being the last.
timncguy
@staciegirlie17
To your question, No the President is not legally required to defend DOMA
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Operation-DOMA-Flip-Flop-Campaign-to-make-sure-the-Prez-keeps-his-promise/77742317941?ref=ts
“A President has the authority to not defend a Congressional law that is unconstitutional on its face. Past Presidents have exercised this right ranging from Ronald Reagan in the case of INS v. Chadha (1983) to George Bush Sr. in Metro Broadcasting v. Federal Communications Commission (1990) and Bill Clinton in Dickerson v. United States (2000). There is no clearer example of a blatantly unconstitutional law than DOMA which President Obama himself has called an “abhorrent law” and that its repeal is “essential”.
Obama’s Law Professor says DOMA is unconstitutional
http://www.imnotamonster.com/2009/06/obamas-law-professor-says-doma-unconstitutional/
Professor Tribe told Paul Sousa, founder of Equal Rep:
“I certainly agree (a) that Section 3 of DOMA is unconstitutional, at least as applied to couples like those who are currently challenging it in federal court here in Massachusetts…. I’m not at all reluctant to have it known that I think the equality component of the Fifth Amendment’s Due Process Clause forbids the federal government to deny same-sex spouses benefits identical to those that it would grant to opposite-sex spouses when the spouses are “married” under the law of their state – that is, when the spouses were married and reside in states where the law forbids a distinction between same-sex and opposite-sex marriage and rejects the DOMA definition of ‘marriage.’”
timncguy
@Robert, NYC: @DuttyBarb: You know everything you need to know about DuttyBarb as soon as you see the term “Lifestyle choice” in the post.
Robert, NYC
@timncguy:
Tim, quite…its all part of their m.o. to dehumanize us, code words if you like;”gay” marriage is another one they like to use and incorrectly used by a lot of gay people too. Ever asked a straight when he or she realized they were straight? You’d be surprised at their responses, so would the bigots who use dehumanizing terminology to denigrate our lives. Maybe we should start turning these “choice” words around on them when we describe their orientation and their lives, give them a dose of their own medicine. One word we use with abandon pisses them off…”breeder”. I try to avoid using it because they turn it back on us when they say we’ll alienate moderate straights on marriage equality. Its all part of the mind games they play in the name of dehumanization.
fifi
well gay people dispice trans people just like other ethnic minorities dispice gay people. you guys don’t understand why ethnic minorities think you are scum. well trans people don’t understand why gay people think we have a mental issues. same deal. karma is sweet baby
staciegirlie17
I guess you really don’t realize the gravity of the situation Bush caused for us do you? It will take more than 9 seconds to fix the bo bo.
My computer is stuck on jerk mode today so my comments aren’t coming out right, and quite possbibly, I too, could be in jerk mode as well as many people on this blog.
Back to the subject, I think Obama’s doing the best he can w/ the economy thing plus the fact that there’s third world countries that would like to blow the smithereen’s out of us right now. I guess you just want to be jobless and earthless. But, hey, let’s still get married. We won’t have a job to go too though.
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com
@staciegirlie17:
I’m sorry to have to tell you this, but the test are conclusive”
You have Cancer of the Kool Aid and it’s terminal.
[img]http://mpinkeyes.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/saint-obama.jpg[/img]
Gwen
Did anyone read the last line of the brief?
“For the foregoing reasons, the United States’ motion to dismiss should be granted, and all of plaintiffs’ claims against the United States should be dismissed WITH PREJUDICE.”
I know it means something else, but I found that quite fitting.
My last line: This shit is bonkers.
InExile
@Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com: Hillary would NEVER wear that outfit!
InExile
@staciegirlie17: He has already proven he is very good at multitasking and he has an army of people to delegate to so your argument is weak at best! A few words from him could move mountains but he is not interested! Keep drinking your Kool Aide!
InExile
@staciegirlie17: Watch this video if you have forgotten Obama’s promises:
http://www.dailykostv.com/w/001841/
michael
@DuttyBarb: I don’t hate you, I feel sorry for you because you are merely using that what they “majority” wants justifies bigotry. You would have made a great SS officer. I am from the south and believe me the majority did not, and in many states, still do not, care about the rights of blacks. Your pathetic, suffer from spiritual bankruptcy and in an eventual incarnation will experience what you preach, of course I could hear how loudly you scream when you do.
egyptian11
It says on our currency “In God we trust” If we trust in God we need to understand that the bible is is word. If we believe that to be true than what action do we need to take. The Majority has too many variables within to make the majority happy. Poly in math terms is many. Tics are little bugs that can get under your skin. Politics will never make any one person completly happy. Our own values that we need to share with the world will not be accepted by the world. As a strait man with a criminal record, finding a job is easy as fighting a gorilla! Many companies will not hire a felon because they wont take the time to give a second chance. Some who are not given a chance, will take a chance. There is a reason it is hard to find a priest that will say the words,” I now pronounce you man and man or wife and wife”. I Tim. 4:1-3 The Spirit clearly states that inlater times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught of demons.2- Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whos consciences have been seared with a hot iron.3- They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which Gos has created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. You can say this means what ever makes you feel comfortable. America is the land of the free. The Word of God is not a free for all.
Mark
Yeah, that’ll really teach Obama.
Get rid of your Dem card, switch to the GOP, and vote for Palin in 2012. Right. Join right up with the Christian fascists because Obama’s not letting you get married RIGHT THIS FUCKING SECOND. All the while, none of you realize that it’s Christian zealots who are the cause of this. It’s Christian zealots who have caused this nightmare to go on for about 1000 years. But you’re so busy with what TMZ has to say, and so busy being stoned out of your mind that you have no sense of history, or how the US gov’t works, or how much work it takes to change a tide as large as Christianity and their tens of millions of minions.
You people make me sick. I’m done with Queerty. There is no reporting here. This is just a fuckfest of hatred and vitriol.
Steven
Obama don’t care about gay people. (Paraphrasing Kanye West).
timncguy
@egyptian11: Despite the fact that some idiot decided to add “In GOd we Trust” on the money during the last century, it was not there originally.
And, despite all your religious ramblings, religion has not place in CIVIL law according to our constitution.
But, thanks for playing….
DuttyBarb
@ Robert NYC
Genesis 2:18
18 Yahweh God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.”
Genesis 2:24
24 Therefore a man will leave his father and his mother, and will join with his wife, and they will be one flesh.
Ephesians 5:21-33
21 subjecting yourselves one to another in the fear of Christ.
22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, and Christ also is the head of the assembly, being himself the savior of the body.
24 But as the assembly is subject to Christ, so let the wives also be to their own husbands in everything.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the assembly, and gave himself up for it;
26 that he might sanctify it, having cleansed it by the washing of water with the word,
27 that he might present the assembly to himself gloriously, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 Even so husbands also ought to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself.
29 For no man ever hated his own flesh; but nourishes and cherishes it, even as the Lord also does the assembly;
30 because we are members of his body, of his flesh and bones.
31 “For this cause a man will leave his father and mother, and will be joined to his wife. The two will become one flesh.”
32 This mystery is great, but I speak concerning Christ and of the assembly.
33 Nevertheless each of you must also love his own wife even as himself; and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
I Peter 3:1-11
1 In the same way, wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; so that, even if any don’t obey the Word, they may be won by the behavior of their wives without a word;
2 seeing your pure behavior in fear.
3 Let your beauty be not just the outward adorning of braiding the hair, and of wearing jewels of gold, or of putting on fine clothing;
4 but in the hidden person of the heart, in the incorruptible adornment of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God very precious.
5 For this is how the holy women before, who hoped in God also adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands:
6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, whose children you now are, if you do well, and are not put in fear by any terror.
7 You husbands, in the same way, live with your wives according to knowledge, giving honor to the woman, as to the weaker vessel, as being also joint heirs of the grace of life; that your prayers may not be hindered.
8 Finally, be all like-minded, compassionate, loving as brothers, tenderhearted, courteous,
9 not rendering evil for evil, or insult for insult; but instead blessing; knowing that to this were you called, that you may inherit a blessing.
10 For, “He who would love life, and see good days, let him keep his tongue from evil, and his lips from speaking deceit.
11 Let him turn away from evil, and do good. Let him seek peace, and pursue it.
Shannon
Wow. Some of these comments embody a whole lotta fail. Barack Obama said throughout his entire campaign that he was opposed to gay marriage. Even on the gay debate broadcast on LOGO he wouldn’t support gay marriage. If you’re pro-gay marriage and you voted for Barack Obama anyway then you really can’t be pissed at anyone except yourself and your own political ignorance.
If you’re angry about his failure to repeal DADT that’s another story, because Obama has failed to live up to his campaing promises on that end, but OBAMA HAS ALWAYS SAID HE IS OPPOSED TO GAY MARRIAGE.
If you’re going to continue to cast your vote for a Democrat or Republican than be prepared for the continuation of inequality that we’ve suffered throughout our history.
timncguy
@Shannon: And, Obama said throughout he entire campaign that he wanted DOMA repealed. So, what’s your point?
Re gay marriage he said he was “personally” opposed to it. He said it should be left up to the states. He opposed Prop 8. And, he has NEVER opposed any state legalizing gay marriage.
timncguy
@DuttyBarb: How many times do you need to be told that religion is irrelevant to Civil law?
timncguy
@DuttyBarb:
Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities…
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness….
See, I can qoute lines from books too.
But, both your quotes and mine are irrelevant to this issue.
MackMike
@Shannon: 1 Timothy 2:11-15
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
MackMike
Sorry, that quote was meant for DuttyBarb….my apologies, Shannon
GJR
@timncguy:
Duttybarb needs to be reminded that the Bible advocates for all kinds of shit, including slavery, men having multiple concubines, marrying girls off at 12-13. Unless we all want to return to the wonderful days when they thought the earth was flat, it should be treated as a book of literature and legends only.
But even in biblical times, the other marriage issue was a CIVIL LAW concept. The reason death was advocated for women committing adultery is that there could be property disputes if the paternity of a child was not clear. The woman had no rights and was a freely traded commodity between the parental house and the husband.
Shannon
@MackMike:
LOL…no problem. I live in the Bible Belt so I’m used to have Scripture thrown at me 🙂
Shannon
@timncguy: So, if someone is “personally” opposed to gay marriage then you can’t really be surprised when they take a lackluster approach to marriage equality.
The only candidates that supported full equality were Democrats like Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel as well as Libertarian Bob Barr. They were vastly ignored by gay voters who instead decided to get behind HRC darlings like Clinton and Obama.
timncguy
@Shannon: This post is about DOMA. And Obama campaigned on enthusiastic support for the FULL REPEAL of DOMA.
Are you willfully ignoring that fact? Or, are you just ignorant?
MackMike
Like most here, I am personnally dismayed and angered by the language used in the DOJ brief, and I find it inexcusable. However, I do remember hearing Obama clearly state that as a movement, we had much work to do, that changes would not be put into effect by a wave of a pen, that we needed to lobby our legislators. As a movement, we are still rather young; it may not feel that way, and it certainly does not for me, but in the overall scope of things, ours is a young movement–and there is good news in that. I do not believe that Obama has it out for our community, I believe he is just like every other straight politician out there and he genuinely doesn’t care; he will use us when he needs us, throw us under a bus if it suited his political aspirations, but if the public tide moves in our favor he will support us. His prior stance in favor of gay marriage and then subsequent shift away from that stance bolsters this fact. I do believe that getting the legislature on board would do immeasurable good, and once we do, I bet Obama will keep his promises to us. Please do not misuderstand, I’m not a huge Obama fan, but politically speaking what we are facing are unexpected challenges from his administration, which is a far cry from what we would have faced in an administration that included Sarah Palin, who would have set us back a decade or more.
I’ve been so angry all weekend long–I’ve actually felt deeply hurt and injured by the arguments included in the DOJ brief, and I believe that what I felt, what everyone here has felt is absolutely valid. The great thing about being in the internet age is that it affords us the opportunity to vent and let out some steam in what we write to one another.
Here is something that I would like you all to think about. We are a very small minority. Let us say that we make up about 10% of the poplulation, well do you see the implications here? A small minority, a minority of people who are minorities in their own families, have done the work to reach out to society and have been able to transform the way that people think about our rights. Here in California, despite the fact that we lost Prop 8, the truth is that there has been a huge demographic shift as housing has been constructed in far reaching places where there is no infrustructure to address the social needs of those who move to those outter laying suburbs. What has happened is that mega churches have popped up in such areas, as Riverside, and a sizable anti-gay faction has formed along the way. STILL, our community was able to make huge inroads since Proposition 22 passed, leaving a scant 2% of hearts and minds left to change in order for us to remove a horrid and dehumanizing amendment to our state constitution.
10% of the population has overcome severe oppression; criminalization; the AIDs crisis and the greater society’s indifference to our death and suffering, as well as the backlash that accompanied that epidemic. That crisis alone set us back years, and yet we have swayed a rather large number of Californians, and won victories among all the top intellectuals here. We have won battles in Iowa, and throughout the Northeast…just 10% of the population has overcome all their wounds and the oppressive and abusive voices of folks like NuttyBarb, and they have done all that.
And we are just now getting started, we are just now coming together as a community. This hateful brief may have done more good for our community nationally than we could have imagined, for like it or not, we are now arm in arm, ready to work tirelessly to have our voices heard, organize, win our rights, and protect one another…and that is progress!
timncguy
@MackMike: two points
1. Obama may have sadi that we as a movement had much work to do. But, he also said he would be a fierce advocate for us and use the bully pulpit of the presidency in our behalf. So, clearly he did not tell us he expected us to do the work by ouesleves. He clearly represented that he would be working hard WITH us, not AGAINST us.
2. The movement has been going on for 40 years. I don’t consider that a “young” movement. The fact that previous movements may have taken longer is, to me, irrelevant. I expect that the population should have matured by now and should better understand having gone through both the civil rights movement and the women’s rights movement that equality is deserved by everyone. Each new movement for equality that comes up shouldn’t take 100 years to accomplish. People should have learned from history.
Shannon
@timncguy: OH RLY? So, Obama’s against DOMA? How’s that working out for you?
I guess I’d be a pissy bitch too if I’d voted for a hack that never claimed to be pro-marriage equality. But I didn’t, so…
Chuck
I find the title of this article and many of the comments left here offensive and the understanding of how things REALLY get done behind the scenes grossly mis- understood.
If you understand the errors made by the Clinton administration and understand that you are in a much better position when you have a coalition of different parties, you will take a more level headed, thoughtful and most importantly productive result.
Geez, it hasn’t happened in the first 125 days of a 4 year term, maybe we should lynch the President! Are you idiots? You think Sarah Palin will get it done?
Take a deep breathe and let polotics work out as they must. It’s crap like this that put Clinton into a position of never trying again.
We will get what we want. patience is needed now. Not name calling the President
Sceth
@Gwen:
DOJ is asking the court to dismiss with prejudice, and what would be good for the LGBT is a dismissal WITHOUT prejudice. The latter is a dismissal on procedural grounds; the former is as such but would also agree with the content of the DOJ brief, which would spell that apocalyptic precedent we’ve been fearing in a Federal Court.
…
If they dismiss the case without prejudice on the grounds of bad procedure, then nothing happens.
Then we can merrily go along with Perry v Schwarzenegger, which has lawyers of much better repute.
MackMike
@timncguy: I am not excusing this brief, nor am I in any way advocating Obama’s cowardly stance regarding our rights, please do not misunderstand what I am trying to convey. I am only pointing out to what he said, and the overall message that I want to leave is that we have done some great work; we have moved mountains. We will continue to do so, with or without Obama. His legacy is at stake, and I wonder how he cannot be committed to that legacy.
I also understand how you feel about the time it is taking for us to win our rights, Timncguy. Still, there was so much to fight through for us. In the 1970’s, we fought to just be able to assemble at a bar, to come out of the closet, to hold down our jobs. The horrible scourge of the 1980’s really threw us back. We were fighting for our very lives, the lives of those we loved. Do you remember the backlash we suffered then? We had to make up for all that ground we lost, and marriage wasn’t even part of the dialogue then. When you measure our progress from that point on, when you evaluate all that we as a community have been through, we have done a good job. If we can survive and overcome Reagan and W., we will certainly overcome Obama’s indifference and broken promises.
Believe me, I want my rights too. I am one of the 18,000 couples who are gay married in California, but my husband and I married mostly for the next generation to have the same opportunities and choices that every other law abiding, tax paying citizen and felon has in this country. We want federal recognition, but we also wanted to lend our names to those who were married here in an effort to strenghten the cause. The issue is exceedingly important to us, and not just in an abstract way.
I am as every bit as ticked off as you are, I assure you, but this is the hand we’ve been dealt, and we must play it the best way that we can. I don’t want to think into 2012 just now, I want my community to concentrate on what we can do right now, today, and today we can see some enormous progress. We have the vile Republican stalwart, Chenny, advocating for our right to free association. GOP voices belonging to Steve Schmidt and Megan McCain speak opennly about supporting our rights. Boise and Olson have joined forces to fight for our civil rights, Chris Matthews is now even supporting our efforts.
Be angry, be very angry, but let Obama be the catalyst for that anger, not the sole target of it. Direct and channel your anger to our legislators, to lying organizations like NOM, and (yes) to Obama, but use your anger well.
Look, Tim, I gladly put my marriage into your hands and the hands of all my gay brothers and sisters. Again, we have found a way to move a huge number of people in a rather short period of time. I am doing what I can, and I have faith that you and most others on this site will do what you all can too. I don’t believe in Obama, I don’t believe in our politicians, I believe in you, I believe in me, I believe in us.
MackMike
@timncguy:
Each new movement for equality that comes up shouldn’t take 100 years to accomplish. People should have learned from history.
But they don’t, Tim, people don’t learn much from history. We are where we are, the brief was filed, so where do we go from here? I say, lets move forward.
timncguy
@MackMike: and I say in addition to moving forward we ALSO hold Obama’s feet to the fire every day for his broken promises. It is not an either / or proposition. We can, should and MUST do both. POint out his hypocrisy at every opportunity. IT was the congress that made promises to us. It was Obama. Yes, we should be hounding congress. But, we don’t do that instead of hounding Obama. We do BOTH.
Been Around
Add me to the list of people who objects to the overheated tone and wording that this site used.
MackMike
@timncguy: I would not dispute that, nor was I suggesting that we not hold Obama in a place of accountability, but what better way to put the pressure on him than to have a piece of legislation placed on his desk to sign for all the world to see?! Perhaps he feels nothing will ever be delivered to his desk, which would make it all the more satisfying to make happen.
In any event, I just hope we all use this to further our solidarity in creating a fully organized civil rights movement–and we can all being by writing our representatives. That’s not the only thing one should do, but it is among the many things that can be done.
jon
Why fight for your right to get married when you can open a rights bill or something that gives another name for marriage(like Glen) in the gay community and those rights will be treated just like marriage rights but it’s in a different name?
MackMike
@jon: Because marriage is a contract fully transferrable with all rights associated with that contract, whereas a domestic partnership, a civil union, and other such contracts mean different things (or nothing) from state to state, from country to country. Besides, we really shouldn’t have to. Why, should my own religious belief system that compels me to be married to the person I love be trumped by another’s religious belief system in a country that gauruntees equality and free association?
timncguy
@jon: there are already two names for marriage. There is the religious marriage called “holy matrimony” and then there is “Civil Marriage” which should be open to all equally since religion has no place in civil law.
The separate but equal institution of “civil union” has already been tried and found to be treated as “less than” marriage. You can read the report that came out of the NJ study of their civil unions. They were found to be treated unequally basically because the word marriage wasn’t used, the civil unions were treated by many as not as good as marriage.
timncguy
@jon: besides, this thread isn’t about marriage. It is about DOMA and how same-sex couples who are already LEGALLY MARRIED are being denied federal benefits and recognition.
schlukitz
@Been Around:
If YOU are not overheated, then YOU haven’t been reading…or listening!
Reuven
It’s time for the Gay Community to stop apologizing for African American atrocities.
WE NEED TO BE FOCUSED ON GAY ISSUES, and not every liberal issue that comes along.
michael
@staciegirlie17: Give me a fucking break. America lived for almost 40 years with the threat of a super power wanting to blow us up. Korea does not have the missile range to get past Japan. And you think that Obama does every little task there is to do? No, he delegates, he has a staff to do the work. He just sets the policy and says go. You are so grandiose to think that working for our rights is an all consuming job that leaves no room for anything else. I think Obama is capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time. Stop insulting everyones intelligence with remarks that are just downright ignorant.
Peter Mendel
A foreign agent is president of the USA, a man who spends hundreds of thousands of dollars to hide his birth certificate is president of the USA, a man who does as he is told is president of the USA!
[img]c:\obama-gay.jpg[/img]
Robert, NYC
@Peter Mendel:
So Peter…..are you aware that John McCain was not born in the U.S.A? He was born in Panama, NOT a U.S. territory, but a foreign, independent country. How come NO republican brought that up during the campaign? Why?
timncguy
@Robert, NYC: They did bring it up. And, it wasn’t completely clear what the situation was since he was born into a military family.
So, congress quickly passed a law stating McCain was a natural born citizen just to clear up any problems that might arise from the lack of complete clarity.
Robert, NYC
@DuttyBarb:
Quit the religious bull shit. You quote this and that with impunity but you never address every verse that none of you live by….wwww.fallwell.com.
If you believe in the bible, then you must also believe everything in it. You can’t cherry pick this or that and omit everything else to advance your belief system and use it to discriminate. You either believe ALL or you believe nothing.
Robert, NYC
@egyptian11:
You’re an idiot. You don’t need a priest or minister, pastor, whatever, to marry a same-sex couple, in fact some religious denominations do and aren’t a part of the main three branches. So you’re wrong on that. Besides, nobody is asking let alone wanting to compel religious cults to marry us. Civil marriage is a different vehicle than religious marriage and the license authorizing a couple to marry has NO mandate or requirement to procreate. Keep your religious beliefs out of our bedrooms and our lives. Nobody seeks to overturn your right to a religious marriage, but then maybe we should, just to give you and your kind a dose of your own hate medicine. You can quote religion all you want…..Jesus Christ didn’t JUDGE or discriminate against people so I assume you must be reading a different book, the Quran perhaps, another book of fables and contradictions.
Robert, NYC
@The RED FLAGS were there all along…:
The red flag should have gone up with the following duplicitous quote….
“As your President, I WILL USE THE BULLY PULPIT to urge states to treat same-sex couples with full equality in their family and adoption laws. I support the complete repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).”
Hello…..civil unions are FULL EQUALITY? He needs to re-read the Warren court decision granting African-Americans their full civil rights. The court declared that “separate is not equal”. Obama is either dyslexic or totally ignorant. He needs a reminder and we should be the ones to do it.
Robert, NYC
@timncguy:
Tim, how convenient for them. Why didn’t they do the same with Obama after an original birth certificate was produced? The Department of Vital Records knows a forgery from a real one, but that of course isn’t enough to convince the bigots. They also forget his mother was a natural born American citizen, but that doesn’t count I suppose if one is a democrat.
josephG
I am so disappointed in the president…he hides behind the “law” and talks of “hope” but does NOTHING to keep his promises. You have to give it to George Bush….he KEPT his promises to his base…in his 1st term…they didn’t have to wait until his second term for results…and he DIDN’T CARE WHO HE OFFENDED!
I gave Obama money….I gave him support…I gave him my vote….I got NOTHING!
I got LIED TO!
I got MANIPULATED!
I got told to WAIT…WAIT….WAIT!
When Sen. Obama was running…he OFTEN said…”they tell me to WAIT….America will SOMEDAY allow a black president….” He spoke of the audacity of hope…and the URGENCY of NOW…..but as for our URGENCY….well…its just WAIT WAIT WAIT…we can’t take on the REPUBLICAN MINORITY!
My answer…and apparently others here….
I will give NO MORE MONEY
I will give NO MORE SUPPORT
I will give him NO MORE VOTES and I will encourage my friends and family to do the same….I’ll be staying home on election day!
I have taken my name off of his mailing list….and I will HANG UP on anyone who calls supporting him.
SHAME ON HIM FOR HIS SAFE ANSWERS AND HIS FLIP FLOPPING POLICIES….If he gets elected next time…it won’t be because of me!
timncguy
@Robert, NYC: I don’t know why the congress didn;t do the same for Obama. Maybe they didn’t take the claims about Obama as seriously. The birth certificate has been produced after all.
I think the situation with McCain may have been more precarious. He was born in Panama I think. And, it may not have actually been on “US soil” as in on a military base. I don’t remember all the details. His case may have actually been a “technical” violation of the legal requirements for becoming president. The congressional action may have really been required for McCain to just be sure.
sampson
@Ian: there are other alternatives you know. I’m not ready to say I won’t vote dem cause I probably will, but SOMETHING needs to happen by2012 for me to do so. (which I think is likely, at least on DADT)
Robert, NYC
@timncguy:
Tim, from what I know of the law, any American born in a foreign country where at least one of the parents is a U.S. citizen is technically entitled to citizenship, provided that the parent(s) nationality can be documented with either a birth certificate or passport. If his birth were in a U.S. military facility abroad, that would automatically entitle him to citizenship even though he was born out of the country. Obama of course was born on U.S. soil. The naysayers disagree and contend that the birth certificate was a forgery, it clearly is not.
TikiHead
There’s a very good discussion of the legal issues in this, and what might be in Obama’s mind:
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/06/obama_and_doma.php#more
I really respect Ed Brayton — super smart and level headed blogger.
James
Be forewarned, I tend to rattle on a bit on the rare occasion I step on my soap box, so don’t even bother reading if your not in a mood for a long lecture.
Let’s just be honest, regardless of whichever political party you support we are only fooling ourselves into believing that our hard efforts on the behalf of any political candidate (even if they also happen to be gay… I’m looking at you Barry Franks) will ever bear much fruit. What we have to accept is that while most of those who associate themselves with the Democratic party generally not as hostile towards their gay brothers and sisters as those who see themselves as Republicans, the history of the Democratic Party has shown time and time again that they might promise you the moon, but once elected they do their best to pretend you don’t even exist.
The party itself can barely agree on anything. You have your blue dog democrats, your far left liberals or as they prefer to be called, progressives, the third way, poll obsessed, Clinton moderates not to mention all the different caucus, be it on issues, race, gender as so forth, each fighting within the big tent of their own party to get their issues heard.
We must not forget that ever since FDR, the Democrats have always taken for granted the votes of minorities, daring to even be smug in knowing that we have no other party to turn to.
While we all know that when it comes to the issue of civil rights we can expect little help from the Republicans, at least they’re not hypocritical in the sense that they do not stoop to pandering for our votes when they have no intention of supporting our causes in the first place.
Democrats on the other hand have always insisted that the tent of they’re party is large enough that anyone can find a home there. Once they have won the elections however they so easily forget their past promises in favor of their own personal agendas. SF mayor Gavin Newsome, who wishes to become the next governor of California, is now having to back pedal himself on his support of gay rights in order to increase his own electability.
We in the gay community have long had a love/hate relationship with the Democratic Party. It was under Bill Clinton that the policy of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell was put in place. For the former president to have the nerve at the time to claim that his policy would actually help protect the brave men and women who not only put their lives at risk for the sake of our country, but also take on the additional burden of having to hide such an important part of who they are from the same soldiers who depend on them to watch their backs is an unnecessary tragedy in of itself.
Look at all the damage it cause for the gay movement, instead of protecting our gay service men and women, the number of those kicked out of the military actually sky rocketed under DADT. If anything, Clinton’s so called compromise ended up setting up a court of inquisition within the the army, giving the military the legals justification to pursue their witch hunt against gays in the service.
If that wasn’t enough of a kick in the face to our community Clinton also signed DOMA into law. Which not only prevents us from enjoying the same federal rights of other committed couples, DOMA was the fuel that ignited the the explosion of anti-gay bills in so many states.
Of course Clinton does not bear sole blame for all the setbacks we faced during his years in office. Congress was after all dominated by the anti-gay Republican party and at the time most polls showed that a majority of the general population supported such policies. (If there was one thing Clinton always kept an eye on it was his poll numbers)
As for President Obama, I return to the beginning. Like many other minorities, while politicians might be willing to pander for our votes and donations, we have to accept that as things stand now we simply are not that powerful or important of a political force that the Democrats and most certainly the Republicans would be willing to risk losing the support of any of the much larger voting blocks and activists by keeping their promises to us.
So yes, while we all feel disappointed if not a bit betrayed that so far the present administration has done nothing to keep their promises they made to our community I am not at all surprised by it. The most we can hope for is that if Obama wins reelection, he could, as a lame duck, decide he can risk spending the political capital needed to push for equal civil rights for the gay community, regardless if it means angering many of his own supporters.
Still I will not let myself be fooled into believing that the President would do anything to risk the future of the Democratic Party by giving their opposing Republican supporters a uniting issue that will make then even more determined to see they regain the Oval Office. After all, wasn’t that exactly what Bill Clinton did when he was president.
None of this is meant in any way to say we should start supporting the Republican Party in order to have our civil rights finally recognized. While I see myself as a middle of the road independent who found the Bush years deeply troubling, I do not see how it helps us at all in gay community treating those gay men and women who happen to support the Republicans as traitors or social outcasts. While gay civil rights is important to all of us we must never make the mistake in believing that our sexual identity is the only part of our humanity that matters, though I will admit general society is all too willing to help us pigeonhole ourselves to such a narrow part of our lives.
My point in even bringing up the Log Cabin Republicans is that while many of us disagree with their support of anti-gay candidates, in a sense they do serve a purpose for the gay community as a whole, whether we want to admit it or not. While the left and right are all too willing to throw mud at each other, the fact that there are those who openly support the Republicans in a strange way also helps humanize gay society if only by showing that we’re all not shaped by the same cookie cutter that the religious right love to take a bite out of.
Though I am sure many of you would disagree with that statement it is my belief that people like Neil Patrick Harris (though I am sure he’s not a Republican), who is able to be openly gay without the issue of his sexuality becoming the public’s sole focus on his life, is exactly what our community so desperately needs right now. We are as diverse in culture, views, race, and opinions as are found within society at large, and we need to make sure people know that, if only to disprove all the inane stereo-types that the anti-gay movement are all too willing to use against us. Even so, lets be honest, there are times that the actions and behavior by a a very vocal minority within the gay community make us seem like our own worse enemies.
So what should we do? Do we abandon our support for all political parties knowing they’re all talk and no action. Personally I would have to say no. While it is clear that we will not get the support we so desperately need from the present generation of baby boomers who now dominate Capital Hill, we must remain politically active so when the already more accepting younger generations come into their own we will still have a political voice, though I doubt the apologists that dominate the HRC and the Log Cabin should be that voice.
Until then our focus should be on the grassroots level, and by that I don’t mean continuing to throw away money at the same ghettoized gay organizations who so far have failed to deliver on their promises. While more men and women than ever are stepping out of the closest we often find that we have only stepped into the slightly larger, but still confining closet of our inner gay community. This is not a suggestion that we turn ourselves into a single batch of homogenized vanilla ice cream in order to gain greater acceptance.
It is the very image that we are all white, affluent, youth and sex obsessed hedonists that has done nothing to help gain the support of other minorities, especially in the gay black and Latino communities. Its time to leave the sheltered confines that were once so essential to us in the early years of the gay movement. We must try to overcome our fear of being hated or rejected because of something as basic, and human as our god given desire to give and receive the love
Yes, there are some who will never accept us no matter what given their religious beliefs, but that’s their problem, not ours. Just like our own sexuality, matters of faith can make up the central pillar of how a person views themselves, even if it results in misguided beliefs. To demand they change their tightly held beliefs is as pointless and self destructive as their vain attempts to ‘cure’ us of our love for one another.
Even so there are those members in our community who are just as unwilling to accept the rest of society. As is the case with the religious conservatives who would rather damn us to hell than shake our hand, there are those among us who deeply hold onto the idea that the only way we will ever enjoy the freedom and respect they feel we deserve can only be achieved through isolating ourselves within our own closed cultural bubble, if people have a problem with that they can go to hell themselves. It is an unfortunate tragedy for all society that the media focuses so much attention on the extremist on both sides of the gay issue for it only serves to enlarge the gap between us.
Finally, we should all be proud of who we are and all the progress we have made since the 70’s. There is still a lot that needs to be done and there are problems within our own community that we must address so our opponents cannot use such issues against us but I strongly believe that within the next 10-15 years America will undergo a great transformation by finally achieving the dreams the civil rights movement began so many years ago.
schlukitz
@egyptian11:
I have never seen such a discombobulated collection of words and sentences in my life. English much, do you?
“It says on our currency “In God we trust”
So what? Had you taken the time to do a simple Google, you would have found any of a number of articles that dispute and debunk that idiotic “irrefutable proof” you just proffered to get us to buy into your “strait” bigotry and discrimination. Here is but one of many.
http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/cs/blcsm_gov_motto.htm
Then, based on that misstatement, you go on to say, “If we trust in God we need to understand that the bible is is word.”
I love how you Christers lay the foundation for your idiotic arguments on a lie, and then go on to build on that lie with further assumptions and lies. Your bible is no more the word, than the Talmud, the Koran or Ali Baba and the Forth Thieves is.
“As a strait man with a criminal record, finding a job is easy as fighting a gorilla!”
Well, had you paid a tad more attention in English 101, perhaps you might have have had more success in finding a job. Since you did not elaborate on your felon status, one can only assume what that might have been all about, so I won’t go there.
Rather than lecturing the gehys and quoting verse from the bible…perhaps you might want to consider brushing up on your spelling and composition and bone up on your facts (from reliable sources other than the bible), before posting on a gahy site.
Anything less than that, will simply be perceived as an insult to our intelligence.
Thank you for sharing your ignorance with us.
schlukitz
@Robert, NYC:
“You can’t cherry pick this or that and omit everything else to advance your belief system and use it to discriminate. You either believe ALL or you believe nothing.”
Ah. But there’s the rub, Robert.
They do, indeed, cherry pick this or that.
But, the real killer is, they do it with impunity either from the laws of their God…or those of mankind.
That’s why religion is so effective and difficult to do battle with. How does one go about slaying a mythical, fire-spouting dragon?
david
yes what an ass obama is for not taking this issue first, not like their is any other important legislative work which the gop is having some trouble but not much in an attempt to derail im sure if obama gave them something to rile up the conservative nuts with that would help us move the country to a better healthcare state, but i guess that’s just me and well i would rather see healthcare first so i can go on literally living to fight the rest of the battles
schlukitz
@Robert, NYC:
“Hello…..civil unions are FULL EQUALITY?”
Robert, that assumption on behalf of Mr. O and our present administration, is as egregious and insulting to LGBT people as telling a black man that drinking from a separate water fountain is “as good” or “equal” as drinking from a fountain reserved exclusively for white people.
Now I’ll hear it, for sure, from all those who hold to the notion that we cannot compare the suffering of the LGBT community to that of the black community. *Rolls eyes*
schlukitz
@josephG:
I feel your deep disappointment…and your pain, JosephG.
I can only wonder, now that this man who is the first ever to have achieved the office of President of these United States, would feel about the idea of a gay man or lesbian woman becoming President?
Would “Gawd be in the mix” about that, as well?
schlukitz
@James:
“I’m looking at you Barry Franks)”
You did mean Barney Frank, did you not?
James
@schlukitz:
Yeah, my bad
Obama
You perverts are no better than people engaged in incest. Heck, blacks deserve more freedoms than you. No, I said I was for freedoms and rights, just not the gay ones. I have the Hispanic vote now and I need to keep it. Have a parade or something just don’t whisper in my ear…..
DOJ brief filed for Obama…
Nick
time to move to canada i guess?
schlukitz
@Obama:
Are you being tongue-in-cheek….or serious?
Bill Perdue
When will those who advocated voting for Obama come clean and admit that their advice backfired and did a huge disservice to the GLBT movement? When will they start drawing lessons from their political blunders?
We don’t need idiot Maoist self-criticism on this question, but we do need honesty instead of Obots pretending they knew all along that he was a bigot. The chuckleheads who advocated voting for Obama helped create this mess because it was obvious from the beginning that campaigns characterized by pandering to bigots, like those of the Clintons, McCain and Obama could not produce LGBT friendly policies. The Obots put partisan politics ahead of the needs of the movement.
Both major parties are infested with bigots, support the racist war for oil, and act as lapdogs for the looter rich, rewarding them with trillions of dollars stolen from taxpayer’s while insisting that working people accept increasingly harsh austerity measures.
They can no more be reformed than banks can be relied on to stop predatory practices or lawyers like Alec can tell the truth.
Both parties are owned by the rich and run by desperate hustlers who pander to them and the religious right. They will never be instruments for change, except, as we’ve seen, to make matter worse.
Working in either the Republican or Democratic (sic) parties, trying to influence them or bartering support for a few crumbs is a vast waste of energy and an exercise in futility and misleadership.
Forget the Democrats. They own the war. They own the recession maybe depression. They own homobigotry, racism and misogyny. They’re as extinct as T-Rex, and like old Rex, way to dumb to have figured it out.
Robert, NYC
@Obama:
Being the idiot that you are….you might want to check government crime statistics on incest. The overwhelming majority of them are commited by straights, many of whom marry first and second blood cousins, even legal in some states, and in the case of first cousins, …they’re advised not to have children because of birth defects and other abnormalities like “YOU”. A high percentage of incest crimes occur between siblings…usually straight ones.
Robert, NYC
@schlukitz:
Exactly so!
Bill Perdue
Don’t argue with Robert, NYC. He does his homework.
Robert, NYC
@schlukitz:
Absolutely right they do and deliberately! Not so long ago, I took one bigot to task on the Leviticus mantra. His response..”oh that’s the jewish part of the bible, that doesn’t apply to christians”. Yet….the right wingers like him use a lot of the old testament to throw at us. What a moron!
Robert, NYC
@Bill Perdue:
Bill, I so agree with that statement. I didn’t advocate for Obama getting elected….in fact I was quite unconvinced. The only reason I did vote for him was to get rid of Bush, the worst of the two evils, nothing more. I didn’t want another four years of fascism. I’ve now returned back to my Green base.
schlukitz
@Robert, NYC:
Robert, I was completely baffled by “Obama’s” commentary.
Was he mimicking the President and the DOJ to underscore their apparent disdain for the LGBT community, or was “Obama” really mouthing his own condescending remarks about us being perverts are no better than people engaged in incest?
Sign me confused. LOL
Robert, NYC
@schlukitz:
Hi, even it was said in jest, its no joking matter. Using words such as “pervert”, “incest”, that’s the kind of thing you get from the religious wackos and others on the far right, mostly all who vote republican.
To digress, these are the same people who support the murder of doctors at women’s reproductive centers and who claim they belief in pro-life but many of them support the death penalty because they think its distinguishable from abortion which it isn’t. Capital punishment is nothing more than state sanctioned murder. Oddly, the roman cult is against the death penalty. It gets back to the cherry picking this and that from the bible, same m.o.
schlukitz
@Robert, NYC:
I could not agree with you more, Robert. They are emotionally charged, denegrating words that hurt, no matter in what context that they are employed. And had “Obama” had his thinking cap on, he would never have chosen to use those words.
The religious wackos and the far right use pejorative terms like this (and worse)all the time and without even giving it a second thought.
Yet, they get all bent out of shape should anyone dare to call them breeders.
No hypocrisy there. LOL
Brian Miller
@Prof. Donald Gaudard: The case is so poorly pleaded that any first year law student would dismiss it in a New York minute.
You can’t!
You won’t!
You shouldn’t!
Stop fighting!
Submit to my authoritay!
Robert, NYC
@schlukitz:
Yes! I resort to the term “breeder” when its really necessary. The ex-gays and others who come here to agitate often try to manipulate us but NEVER succeed when they say….”calling straights ‘breeders’ is not going to help your cause”. They want it both ways, just like the religious psychos, always playing the victim card when we bash them back. You know, the reason they come here is simple…they know they’re losing the cultural war. Don’t be dissuaded when they say things such as…”the majority of straight people in the world don’t support same-sex marriage, so it must be wrong”. Its another form of manipulation, part of the dehumanization m.o. that they use with impunity, but its firing back on them. They dismiss seven countries and six states as insignificant, the places where we can marry, and it will continue to grow, its unstoppable.
schlukitz
@Robert, NYC:
There’s no doubt it, Robert. You’re absolutely tight. They are loosing the battle and they’re scared shitless.
Why else would they be throwing so much time, energy and money at this issue?
Their thinking is as antiquated at the flat-world theory.
And, if they were absolutely certain in their belief that God does not approve of SSM (equality) for all human beings and that their notion of “right” will prevail in the end, they would be content to read their bibles and sing hymns of praise to their Lord…and pay us no mind whatsoever.
Oh, I almost forgot. If God and his followers are really that pissed off about gays getting married, he’s gonna put it all right again with the rapture.
So, what are the fundies and magical undies crowd so up in arms about? Where they are going, they won’t have to look down and watch us holding hands or kissing. LOL
Brian Miller
@Chuck: Geez, it hasn’t happened in the first 125 days of a 4 year term, maybe we should lynch the President! Are you idiots? You think Sarah Palin will get it done?
That sounds like the sort of argument that a pedophile, or incestuous pervert, would say.
edgyguy1426
@Todd: now Todd if only you could get that on a big enough file we could make signs out of
edgyguy1426
@GJR: Can we revert to biblical law for just a day and trade in DuttyBarb for a goat and some chickens?
edgyguy1426
From DuttyBarb:8 Finally, be all like-minded, compassionate, loving as brothers, tenderhearted, courteous,
9 not rendering evil for evil, or insult for insult; but instead blessing; knowing that to this were you called, that you may inherit a blessing.
10 For, “He who would love life, and see good days, let him keep his tongue from evil, and his lips from speaking deceit.
11 Let him turn away from evil, and do good. Let him seek peace, and pursue it.
Hypocrite much?
James
@Robert, NYC:
WARING… Given how strongly many in our community feel that religion, not just Christianity, has only brought them the hatred and the unjust persecution by their followers and feel any attempt at a religious discussion would only serve to anger them, save yourself such anguish and don’t bother reading what’s written below.
As I see it what so many people on both sides of the religious issue fail to do is take into account when dealing with the Old Testament is their refusal to place it within the historical context, that being the long standing struggles the Jews faced in their long cultural history. As most scholars of the bible will agree, the Jewish portion of the Old Test, the Talmud, was not written as the events they described happened, nor when they were finally written were they written all at once or in chronological order. That does not mean the text is of no historical value, for it is only be viewing its verses through the lens of the religious struggles the Jews were facing at that time that once can gain any clear and honest understanding of why certain things were written down in the first place.
More than any other issue, much of the perspective of those who wrote the first Talmud were guided by hands who feared their culture and faith would be lost by becoming assimilated among the other cultures they came into contact with, specifically the Philistines and the Babylonians.
While there are several other major themes with the Old Test. the main one concerning their views on homosexuality were not based on the concept that such behavior was sinful or wrong. The reason such verses were written at all was because the Jews feared that accepting such practices, as they were among many of the other cultures they would come in contact with in their long history would cause them to lose their own identity. For that reason when one reads the Old Test. one needs to take into account that it is not a neutral text but contains many purposely written biases that were included in the Talmud in order to support the strength of Jewish beliefs in its people.
To give you the most obvious example of where such bias was used… The story of Cain and Abel. Cain was a farmer, much like the people who lived in Canaan when the Hebrews arrived from Egypt. Unlike them the Hebrew were primarily herdsmen. That is why in Genesis Abel’s animal sacrifices was considered more favored by god while Cain’s offering of his crops were rejected. Those who wrote that part of Genesis, wrote it the way they did to explicitly strengthen the idea that their people’s customs, like herding, were more favored by god, compared to the farming tradition practiced by the Philistines and that in order to keep god’s favor they should not take on the customs of other cultures.
As for the verses dealing with homosexuality the situation is a little more complex . Why such verses is in the bible in bible at all can first be in Genesis in the verses dealing with the story of Noah and his sons. In one of the verses it describes how one of his sons had offended Noah for having seen him naked while also naming the people whom they credited that son of being the founder of and who were later defeated by the Israelites and enslaved. Now no real scholar of the Old Test. believes that the story of Noah and that of the offending son was written any time before the Jews conquest of Canaan.
It was not back written just to justify the Jews enslavement of that particular people. Historians believe that the particular tribe was one of many in the region who practiced the worshiping of a mother goddess deity. Also very common within those groups who followed such beliefs was the practice of sexual rituals which also included homosexual acts.
It was not the sexual acts themselves that were meant to be seen as a sin against god, but it was a tool used as a means of preventing the Jewish people from adopting what they saw as a culture and religion that threatened their people’s identity.
Some might claim I’m splitting hairs with such a premise but when there are such examples as King David’s relationship with King Saul’s son there is a real basis to the distinction between love people of the same sex can share with one another compared to the Jews fears that their own faith would replace by the beliefs of others. The worship of the idol Baal is just another such example in the Old Test. where the Jewish people felt their culture was under threat.
As for the New Test. one must remember that for the most part, the first followers of Christianity were also Jewish. During much of the early years where principles of the Christian faith had yet been determined there was a heated debate between Saint Paul and Saint James over how one could become a Christian in the first place. James, who controlled the church from Jerusalem believed that before one could become a Christian one first had to convert to Judaism believing that one needed to be under the convenient god made to Abraham in order to be enjoy the one made by Jesus. Paul, on the other hand, insisted that the second convenient was completely independent of the first therefore there was no need to convert to Judaism even though Paul himself was born Jewish. I think most of you know who won that argument but for those who don’t, it was Paul.
I only bring up that point so that even those who refuse to agree with my previous arguments over the true reason why homosexuality was ever seen as forbidden under Jewish law by continuing to insist that the same laws listed in the Talmud was also meant to apply to Christians is a false premise. Those who continue to insist such I’ve come to the habit of referring to as double dippers.
Konstantin
Perverts, calm down.
for those interested in Christian response to homo-sex, look up Robert Gagnon.
schlukitz
@Konstantin:
Go peddle your Christian snake-oil in Konstantinople. The only real perve here, is you!
And while you’re there, perhaps you might like to read this about that.
http://www.questioningchristian.com/2005/01/robert_gagnon_h.html
Gagnon is just another homophobe, who like Reverend Haggard, is simply trying to wrap himself up in pseudo-knowledge to hide his real ignorance and bigotry.
You have reached the end of the Internet. There is no place left to go. Now, get the fuck off this queer site, shut your computer off and go do something useful and constructive with your time.
Eugene
This is another reason why I’m glad I didn’t vote for him. Many of gay friends were outraged, and yet every step he takes in his presidency reaffirms my rationale behind my refusal to vote for him. His administration may actually hinder gay rights across this nation.
Lofn
So I was right. We were given nothing but assholes to choose from last election, like everywhere, so we all voted for the one who at least tried to lie to us. I don’t blame any of you for your actions during the election. There was no good option. Not voting for any of them, and not voting at all, I don’t think voting mattered hardly at all in this issue.
I think the best we can do now is boycott, protest, or leave. There are other countries more willing to treat us as equals, and we really should be boycotting and protesting more here. That stuff changes the world more than one person getting a job ever can. Keep your eyes open guys, that way you can avoid at least some of the battering.
Sobryan
When rights are bestowed to a minority group, it is perceived as being a good day for equality. However when these groups of rights are given, but are called a separate term than from which the majority has, that is when a visible line is created between the majority and the minority, effectively segregating them and creating a second class citizen. Gay Rights = Human Rights
schlukitz
@Sobryan:
Well said, Sir.