The South Florida chapter of The Impulse Group, a non-profit that “focuses on the sexual and overall health of the gay community” by throwing swanky shindigs, stands accused of age discrimination after demanding the over 40 crowd pay a $50 age tax “donation” for entry into a pool party in Miami.
After enduring a backlash, the group issued a defense saying ageism “played absolutely no role” in its decision to charge guys over 40 a fee to attend the event, and then insisted it was “deeply saddened and stunned” by the amount of hatred and vitriol organizers received, calling attacks “unacceptable.”
Sadly, these ageist pool partiers are hardly alone in hating on their fellow older gays. You see it all the time: On Grinder profiles that attack “old trolls” and “grandpas.” In bars where older gents are completely ignored or greeted with hostility. At Pride parades where it seems anyone over 35 is relegated to the stands.
The whole thing got us thinking about ageism in our community, a problem that seems to be getting worse, not better. So, without any further ado, here is our open letter to all those ageist gays out there…
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
Dear Ageist Gays,
George Bernard Shaw famously wrote “Youth is wasted on the young.” If you don’t understand what this means then you likely fall into the category of either ignorant or “young,” which, for the sake of argument, is under the age of 25… OK, OK, 30, for those of you still clinging. But that’s the cutoff, even if you are 50 and describe yourself as a “boi” on your Adam4Adam profile. (More power to you, dude!)
A stubborn minority of gay men maintain ageist attitudes. Just scroll through the comments section of almost any recent Queerty article about Madonna and you’ll see what we mean. In the eyes of many gay men, including, evidently, the South Florida chapter of The Impulse Group, 40 is the new geriatric and 50 is the new dead.
Yes, we’re generalizing. There are plenty of guys out there who understand that age truly is just a number, and that we all just happen to be at different places along our journey. But for those of you who take offense any time a man a few years your senior or sporting a few more wrinkles (wisdom marks, we like to call them) dares to look your way at a bar or say “what’s up?” on SCRUFF, here are three reasons why you need to get over it:
1. It’s shallow and disrespectful
You don’t like it when people discriminate against you for being gay, right? Because, as Lady Gaga so eloquently put it, you were #bornthisway. Discriminating against someone based on characteristics that are completely arbitrary, such as age, is, in a word, bigotry. Not to mention, it’s rude.
2. It’s a waste of time
Gay people have enough crap to deal with already. Truly, there is no need to waste time tearing down others for sport. We’re in the middle of a heated battle for marriage equality, gay men still earn less then heterosexual men in the workplace, and there are still states where it’s legal to fire someone or deny them housing for being gay.
If you’re genuinely bothered by a 40 or 50 or 60-year-old gay man merely existing in the same world as you, you seriously need to check your priorities. Nearly an entire generation of gay men was wiped out during the ’80s and ’90s. Try to appreciate those who are still around. They put up with a lot of shit and created a lot of change so you don’t have to. You should be flirting with them out of gratitude alone.
3. It’s futile
Brace yourself because this one’s gonna hurt… One day that “old gay man” you loathe and fear is gonna be you. If you are even fortunate enough to grow old, that is.
That’s right, my friend. In the not so distant future, you’re going to find yourself on the receiving end of a younger person’s snarky sideways glances and dramatic eye rolls. Agism is unique in that you are hating yourself, not just others. Or rather, your future self.
And it doesn’t matter how often you work out, how big your tacky collection of Abercrombie shirts is, or how much Botox you inject into your face, the day will come when you can no longer rely on your youth to get by or excuse your behavior. You will actually have to be good, not simply young.
It’s amazing how time flies. Especially as you get older.
Sincerely,
Your friends at Queerty
jason smeds
Young gay men, along with women in general, are narcissistic, air-headed, and completely and utterly devoid of anything other than having a good time. Sure, there are exceptions but these are few and far between.
I partly blame the gay scene. It’s a scene that is based on selfish qualities. It’s about drinking, smoking and picking someone up. Can you think of anything more selfish?
When a scene is built on selfishness, it devalues humanity. It becomes “me, me, me…and my fetishes”.
Giancarlo85
If someone doesn’t want to date an older man, that is their right.
@jason smeds: Oh look… It’s the bitter hermit. And he had to make a swipe at women as usual. I think this guy has serious issues even being around the opposite sex. And his mother was probably abusive and a alcoholic.
Giancarlo85
@jason smeds: And kinda funny coming from a guy who can’t stop talking about looks and butts of Latinos. Kinda superficial don’t you say?
Daniel Bujes
Now we need an open letter to the older gay men that are ageist towards the young…Because that’s a thing too.
Bauhaus
Personally, I find men with mileage sexy as HELL!
Loundis Pot Pie
To say that the gay communitry has to stop focusing on sex dismisses the ONLY univeral thing we share. That’s what being gay is.
It’s not ageist for a 20 year old to not be into hooking up with a guy old enough to be his father or grandfather.
Deal with the fact that with age, things change, including your sex life.
Chris-Tyler Young
Or we just need to realize that the gay community, which I love dearly and proudly take my place within said community, are still flawed people with ingrained biases towards people for rather insiginificant traits. We’re possibly one of the most factioned and judgemental groups I’ve ever seen. No where is the disgust for certain races more prevalent than in the gay community. No where are gays attacked more for being themselves than in the gay community because they don’t fit the mass perception of what “modern gay” is. I’ve heard some of the most scathing remarks about lesbians, trans, asexual etc etc etc individuals from gay men! We scream love has no boundaries at pride parades and marriage equality rallies, but our actions show we only mean love has no boundaries is the people in love meet our arbitrary standards.
DannX68
@Giancarlo85: @Giancarlo85: Nowhere did it say that it wasn’t their RIGHT to not date older men. Comment on what IS there!
The problem is the way people treat other people. Even if you have preferences – as we all do, though for most of us it isn’t set in stone – there is no reason to be a dick about it.
Kieran
Every young gay should realize that he is standing on the shoulders of the older generation of gay men who came before him and was forced to do battle against a blatantly homophobic society. A lot of gay youth take the visibility, rights and freedoms that gay people enjoy today for granted and the way it has always been. Increasing acceptance of and tolerance toward gays is NOT the way it’s always been. They forget about the years of struggle and the obstacles that older gay men were forced to overcome in the 1970s, 80s and 90s. An understanding of and respect for what older gays have won for them is often lacking in all too many junior gays. I agree with Jason smeds observation of the narcissistic side of gay life: “When a scene is built on selfishness, it devalues humanity. It becomes “me, me, me”. That is never pretty.
Deon Letsoalo
Urgh! Not everyone enjoys the company of the elderly. Build a fucking bridge and get the hell over it. This “ageism” crap is as ancient as the gargoyles who spew it. Give it a rest already -_-
Dan Hutton
You can have a type. That’s not the point. Devaluing people because they’re older is. And we are all going to get there. So stop expecting others to change for your tastes.
aaronarnwine
wait, what? so no calls for legislation forcing these ageist gays to stop their discrimination??? no threats to burn their businesses to the ground, no musings about segregation and civil rights? no threats of boycott and public humiliation for these gay businesses?
i smell hypocrisy.
Bauhaus
@Loundis Pot Pie:
“It’s not ageist for a 20 year old to not be into hooking up with a guy old enough to be his father or grandfather.”
No. But it is when you snarl, roll your eyes at him, treat him with contempt, and charge him for admission to gatherings.
Taskebab
It’s funny, I rarely see any comments that are ageist against older guys, yet go to an article that is about being against age-discrimination and the first sentence of the first comment is “Young gay men are narcissistic, air-headed, and completely and utterly devoid of anything other than having a good time.” …yeah…if older gay men don’t wan’t to be “discriminated” they should maybe you know…begin with treating younger guys with respect…because MY dislike for older gay guys comes from the fact that the second you walk in a gay bar they seem to think you’re only there for their pleasure and then they mix it with comments about MY age, old gays always loooove to say how young ones are dumb, and have no emotions and apparently hate old people…
The discrimination goes both ways, so don’t try and make it as if the old gays are some poor victims here, you don’t hear me complain endlessly and start writing open letters when yet another old dude is complaining how dumb and shallow and narrow-minded people my age are. And let’s be honest…the only reason the old gays are so offended is because they think they have this entitlement that they should be allowed to fuck the young ones and when the young ones don’t want it they feel butthurt and yell discrimination…
VampDC
I just want to see more older gay men who don’t act like they’re in their 20s.
As a 22 year old gay man, I often hate how gay men are less likely to be in serious relationships and hook up to a point of no return. What worries me is I find there aren’t older gay couples for young gay men to look up to. A lot of older gay men are still in the sauna or club trying to mack on their next piece of meat.
Bauhaus
@Taskebab:
Yikes! You’re dumber than a rock and nasty to boot. Cynical, jaded, angry, entitled, bitter. Good grief, it’s a wonder you’ve ever gotten laid.
Taskebab
@Bauhaus: …wait where did that come from…
BRYANinSF
Here’s my little story. First of all, you should know that I am 67 years old, short with very average looks, and I’m very polite.
I saw a pair of shoes in a store window in my neighborhood, which is predominantly gay. I walked in and asked the guy (late 20’s/early 30’s) who greeted me if he had them in a size 9. He and I walked back to the shoe department and he headed into the storeroom as I waited by the door, about five feet away. He came back out in less than a minute carrying a shirt (?) and walked right by me. I assumed he was still checking. So I waited…and waited…and waited. I then headed back up front and I saw the salesman trying on the shirt as two other salesmen commented on it. I didn’t want to interrupt whatever was going on, so I just stood there. It was if I had become invisible. In another minute or so, he turned around and saw me. He said, “We don’t have the shoes in your size,” and he turned away.
Now…was all of that because of my age…or my height…or my unassuming demeanor? Or did he have ADD? Or was he stoned?
Ageism IS a lamentable fact in the general population, NOT just among gay people. There are other cultures and countries in which old people like me are treated kindly…but in America, not so much.
Taskebab
@BRYANinSF: You got ageism from that? I just got bad salesmen from that, had you tried going up to them and say something along the lines of “excuse me, I’m in a hurry” because the amounts of times stuff like you’re explaining has happened to me…you just have to step it up and demand the attention you as a customer deserve. But age discrimination? It’s happened to me before as well…the last three options you gave are more likely what happened than your age.
Also if that is the worst kind of disrespect is you have to face in your life, you are an extremely lucky person…
Realitycheck
Enough! Get real people, a young guy goes to a bar to meet who ever he likes,
NOT to spend hours politely talking to a bunch of tired old queens.
Yes we can all be friends, that is great or terrific, but each age has its
do, a young person want to experience and grow and may be find love
or simply sex, and they have 100% the right to choose and associate
with whom ever they choose.
It is not rude, it is not snobby and it is not ageism for a 20s guy to ignore
older guys at a bar, sheesh, one works all week, and finally gets to go out
to have fun, and suddenly we have rules and regulation on how to spend
our time? F that and F the tired old queens with delusions of youth.
You had your time, let younger people have their time.
And for the record I am not young, and I was one of the younger guy harassed
but old puffs, the heck with that, do ask yourself a simple question.
Why are you so desperate to be around younger guys?
Guess what, younger guys want the same you want, young!
What is even more ridiculous are the older guys that do not take care of
themselves and expect the hottest young guy to give them the time of the day.
Really? Your stomach alone weights 150LB and mr 20 and skinny is supposed
to be ecstatic to engage with you? How much have you been drinking?
And to be fair the same applies to the young guy that is bitchy or doesn’t take care
of himself and gets upsets when guys of any age reject him.
There is a wonderful invention, for real, it is called a mirror………..use it people.
Politically correct applies to politics NOT in people private lives……
I suspect, the reason the party organizers did not apologize is because
there was no public uproar of disdain for the entry charge policy, but the usual 5 old tired
queens complaining, and thank to Queerty….well it is now a national security case.
GritsRgr8
@jason smeds: Eloquently said!
Taskebab
OH OH OH!!! Another thing; why is Queerty being condescending when I have NEVER seen an article on the website sexualizing old geezers?
Glücklich
Forgive my ignorance, but is there really all of this passive aggressive or even open hostility to men once they cross some age threshold? I’m not being a smartass, I’ve just never noticed it.
As I approach forty I guess it’s something I ought to look out for, not to catch anyone out but to see if I can pick up on a vibe. I am fairly oblivious to subtle hostility because I am just used to steamrolling over unpleasant interactions after years and years of dealing with difficult business associates. But hand to god and as far as I know, I’ve never come on to anyone younger than I am. I’ve always been attracted to men ten plus years my senior; my husband is thirteen years older than I am and at my end of our open marriage, my other partners are all older. Mr. Glücklich’s partners run the gamut.
I don’t think I have a daddy fetish but what I DO fetishize is knowledge and experience and in my twenties when I first started getting involved with older guys, none of the people my own age had the kind of knowledge or experience I [didn’t know I] wanted. That some of those men did not have the taught, lithe, body of a twenty-something Adonis didn’t bother me because that, too, is part of experience. That’s life, and that’s hot. Just like not all 20-somethings are built to be on a box of Calvins.
charlie_jackpot
And how many articles of hot young guys in their underwear do you need to keep this site operational?
The Kettle is never going to listen to what the pot has to say
Realitycheck
DannX68 wrote:
>>@Giancarlo85: Nowhere did it say that it wasn’t their RIGHT to not date older men.
>>Comment on what IS there!
>>The problem is the way people treat other people. Even if you have preferences – as we all do,
>>though for most of us it isn’t set in stone – there is no reason to be a dick about it.
More often then not the older guys are the one literally trying to take advantage of younger kids,
so yes it is as you say a problem in the way people are treated.
I applaud guys that walk away from obnoxious situations, and it is not snobbing it is self defense.
And very often I also see people not taking a NO for an answer, their ego kicks in and suddenly
an innocent and polite NO becomes a huge offense.
“”jason smeds wrote:
>>Young gay men, along with women in general, are narcissistic, air-headed, and completely and
>>utterly devoid of anything other than having a good time. Sure, there are exceptions but these
>>are few and far between.
I would call that, growing up and making experiences, and yes having fun.
And I much prefer some one that loves themselves to self haters.
Realitycheck
@Glücklich:
No there isn’t, what you have here, are few self entitled old queens,
wrongly believing they should be accepted and treated equally in spite of their own
shortcomings by younger guys.
In my own experience, friendship is often possible within common interests, but
when the older guy demands or hopes for more, unless the younger guy has a taste for
older guys, well then the big and fat NO springs out, and rightfully so.
No amount of charm and politeness can make up for some one appearance and no
amount of gym and trendy clothing will make that old guy fit in a younger group.
If kids walk away from old man is because they feel uncomfortable.
And if they stay and talk is because they are polite and kind, not because they
want to spread their legs upon request.
thomas prentice
@Realitycheck: you are a narcissistic, self-aggrandizing, self-centered, conceited, entitled, rude, sick and twisted sociopath. If you don’t know the meaning of those words, you might try to look them up in a new invention … called a DICTIONARY 😉
thomas prentice
MOST IMPORTANT: “Nearly an entire generation of gay men was wiped out during the ’80s and ’90s. Try to appreciate those who are still around. They put up with a lot of shit and created a lot of change so you don’t have to. You should be flirting with them out of gratitude alone.”
NEARLY AND ENTIRE GENERATION OF GAY MEN WAS WIPED OUT …
thomas prentice
@jason smeds: The “gay scene” is all about alcohol and drugs. A bar-centered culture. When I finally came out, I came out less to same-sex desire — being a “same-sexer” as Gore Vidal put it — than to alcohol, alcohol, alcohol and drugs.
I could have done without all the alcohol and drugs; same-sexers out and about NOW could similarly do without the alcohol culture.
It was and is one giant gay frat party, with profits accumulated to GAY INCORPORATED.
thomas prentice
@Daniel Bujes: Oh, puh-LEASE. Get a life willya. I think Wal-Mart has them … for sale cheap.
thomas prentice
@Daniel Bujes: That is like asking people to feel sorry for the poor, poor gestapo cops who broke Freddie Gray’s spine and killed him.
Wilberforce
Here’s another reason to get over it.
We older queens have a lot to share as friends. We have emotional calmness and stability, which would help you just by seeing it regularly. We have learning from having been around longer, and seeing more things, and reading more books. So we have at least some wisdom.
But I think that’s part of why young queens are so mean. Americans in general don’t like to feel stupid. And being around people who know more does that.
Still, young queers with self-confidence could learn a lot from the troll brigade.
thomas prentice
@Loundis Pot Pie: NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT HOOKING UP. Why do YOU think anyone WANTS to hook up with you? Narcissistic, perhaps you are?
thomas prentice
@Chris-Tyler Young: RE: “I’ve heard some of the most scathing remarks about lesbians, trans, asexual etc etc etc individuals from gay men! ” Moi aussi.
thomas prentice
@Kieran: THANK YOU!
thomas prentice
@Deon Letsoalo: Get a life, a conscience and introduction to western politeness rituals. They are all on sale at Wal-Mart. CHEAP!
thomas prentice
@aaronarnwine: WTF?
thomas prentice
@Bauhaus: THANK YOU!
thomas prentice
@Taskebab: The discrimination goers both ways? Again, THAT is like asking people to feel real real sorry for the poor poor copz who broke Freddie Gray’s spine and killed him. Poor poor young gay guys, feeling so abused if an old guy finds him attractive. Narcissistic young guys? Yep. If you don’t ewant to feel so abused, then either don’t doll up and work out to show off at the gay bars, or DON’T GO! GET. A. LIFE.
thomas prentice
@VampDC: WHAT? NO OLDER GAY COUPLES TO LOOK UP TO? IN AN ERA OF “PROMISCUOUS” GAY MARRIAGE LAWS AND AN EXPECTED PRO GAY MARRIAGE RULING FROM THE SUPREME COURT? GET YOU EYES OFF OF YOUR BATHROOM MIRROR AND LOOK AROUND.
thomas prentice
@BRYANinSF: Thank you for the story.
RE: “It was if I had become invisible.”
That is exactly right. I have often experienced the same feeling.
My former partner and I once went out to Oilcan Harry’s in Austin and after less than five minutes there, I was feeling invisible and then he turned to me and whispered “I HAVE NEVER FELT SO INVISIBLE IN MY LIFE.”
AGEISM is FORCED INVISIBILITY. It is as if these narcissists threw Harry Potter’s invisibility cloak over everyone over 35 but we are still human beings, there, wanting shows and courtesy, forget respect, just western politeness rituals would be an improvement.
thomas prentice
@Taskebab: You are the poster child for a terrible two temper tantrum, why not just go ahead and kick your feet and cry and scream like a baby? What narcissism! What infantility! What entitlement! What conceit! Get a life; I think they sell them cheap at Wal-Mart.
Taskebab
@thomas prentice: oh honey no no…you do not get to compare an aging gay guy whose feelings are hurt because some twink won’t suck his dick to actual discrimination and racism. The problem is not that the older guys are attracted to younger guys. The problem is not that younger guys are then not into the older guys. The problem is that the older guys seem to feel this entitlement of “oh, I’m older, ergo I’m wiser, ergo everybody should want to sleep with me”…this article LITERALLY states “They put up with a lot of shit and created a lot of change so you don’t have to. You should be flirting with them out of gratitude alone.” HOW DARE YOU?! Sucks for you that you went through shit…that doesn’t give you the entitlement of having young guys at your sexual disposal. There is this weird, undeserved entitlement among older gay guys these days that is based on “I’m older, I’ve seen shit, I deserve my dick sucked”…SEX IS NOT AN ENTITLEMENT! There are plenty of people out there who will be totally fine with sucking your dick, but don’t start crying discrimination if somebody DOESN’T. The world does not revolve around you. It’s bizarre and frightening that apparently not reciprocating sexual advances warrants claims of discrimination…
thomas prentice
@Realitycheck: Politically Correct applies to LIFE. But thanks for your SPEW which radically reinforced the point the article is making, lol
thomas prentice
@Taskebab: THIS IS NOT ABOUT SEXUALIZING GEEZERS. In case you can’t even read PICTURES, the article is about respectualizing the geezers, not SEXUALIZING the geezers. Again, you are the POSTER CHILD for the animus the article was written for in the first place.
thomas prentice
@Wilberforce: THANK YOU!
thomas prentice
@Taskebab: You are not my mommy or my daddy so who TF do you think you are telling me no anything? And why or why do you think any old queen wants to you to suck HIS dick? Go the the library. Read a book. Get a life.
thomas prentice
@Taskebab: I really don;t want any of you unsafe sexers sucking my dick, thank you very much 😉 Aren’t we CONCEITED?!
Taskebab
@thomas prentice: Dude what is your problem? All you’ve been doing is being hateful and angry…
thomas prentice
@Taskebab: dude, the terms are sarcastic, scornful and effervescent. You are beneath contempt lol
da90027
A lot of people I knew in the 80S are dead I feel glad to be here by saddened at how mean spirited everyone has become. Back in the 80S when people were dropping dead left and right gay men were a bit nicer to each other. Just read above at all the nasty comments there sure are alot of really angry hateful people around these days.
OrchidIslander
Nice open letter to ageist gay men, Queerty. Ironic coming from you, because, as far as I am concerned, your blog is quite complicit and a major contributor in the continual and blatant over-valuation and worship of most things young and male. As evidence, take a gander at the male models you have titillated us with throughout the years. How many of them are 40, 50 60 and beyond? You even give 30 short shrift.
Does it ever occur to you that having the platform that you do, you could do some good by projecting and validating the truly glorious variety of gay men that are out there? Our community is way lucky in the great diversity that we have. Unfortunately, our community is also rather mucked up in placing the import of some far above others.
And its not just models and photos either. There are great stories about gay people of all stripe. Other than Madonna, who is not gay, we rarely see consistency regarding positive articles about older gay folk. It’s like if the abs aren’t clearly defined and become covered with hair, you are no longer interested.
Queerty, you’re implicit. You glorify young and gay (who are also 99% white – another discussion for a later date) men. It is pretty hypocritical to enable worship at the altar of all things young and male – and then offer up a pious and holier-than-thou missive to those practicing age discrimination – which you also practice on a daily and grander style.
So man up. In spite of the demographics that your site attracts – at least attempt to do the right thing or do what you’ve always done without the lofty take down of your fellow ageists.
Realitycheck
@thomas prentice: Get help from a psychiatrist that enjoys a challenge.
And when you want to see rude look in a mirror…………..
Realitycheck
@Taskebab:
Thank you!!!
I am so tired of old tired queens complaining about discriminations and ageism when in reality they are the one
harassing “sexually’ younger guys”
Who cares how long you have been working the block and how what ever you are, This is A REALITY CHECK !!!!
Either some one likes you or they do not,get over it thomas prentice!
Homo Erectus
I’m an ageist. As a general rule, I avoid talking to anyone under 30. They may be cute, sometimes – if they’re not already FAT, what’s with all the fat kids nowadays?* – but they’re stupid and boring and have nothing to talk about anyway, except maybe “celebrities” I’ve never heard of. *I used to enjoy going to Pride events but lately it’s revolting to see all those FAT FAT FAT boys with their shirts off; it’s tough to figure out who’s a lesbian and who’s supposed to be a guy, or at least pretending to be a guy.
Guys under 30 usually have disgusting tattoos that make me want to vomit. And if they smoke tobacco, they’re totally contemptible. (I thought tobacco at least kept the fat off? Apparently not.) They’re usually gold-diggers (including my own own useless relatives: another reason to avoid Facebook!) so I find it best to just avoid anyone under 30.
They all seem to be allergic to peanuts – or their helicopter mommies have convinced them they are, anyway – so I have fantasies of going into a twink bar some night and throwing peanuts at all the Tylers and Ryans and Dakotas, and seeing them go into imaginary psychosomatic anaphylactic shock. BWA HA HA HA HA.
Realitycheck
Wilberforce wrote:
Here’s another reason to get over it.
We older queens have a lot to share as friends. We have emotional calmness and stability, which would help you just by seeing it regularly. We have learning from having been around longer, and seeing more things, and reading more books. So we have at least some wisdom.
But I think that’s part of why young queens are so mean. Americans in general don’t like to feel stupid. And being around people who know more does that.
Still, young queers with self-confidence could learn a lot from the troll brigade.
================================================================================================
I don’t think is even that deep, it is a much simpler impulse and a natural response, young kids are
learning to socialize and still lack social skills, and also by nature, they prefer to be around people
their own age and there is nothing wrong with that, again it is natural.
The problem with the article and some posters on these boards, they try to remove the sexual factor
from the entire picture, while we all know too well, gays are very sexual and more often then not,
there might be some other interest behind a simple friendship.
There is also the question of why a 40-60year old would want to spend his week end with kids in
their 20s, sadly and more often then not, the answer is one of missed emotional development.
And you can see that in thomas prentice posts, the way he react with violence to others ideas, so sad.
nowliveit
@Daniel Bujes: Your comment is as ridiculous as political majority comments to any idea that makes them change lol
Like (non-Christ) Christians saying ‘gay rights infringes on their religious rights (to discriminate).’ boohoo
And the white majority argument against helping minorities get into college by saying ‘white students rights are being hurt by giving special privileges to minorities.’
BTW, I’m an older white man 🙂
Realitycheck
@VampDC:
VampDC wrote:
I just want to see more older gay men who don’t act like they’re in their 20s.
As a 22 year old gay man, I often hate how gay men are less likely to be in serious relationships and hook up to a point of no return. What worries me is I find there aren’t older gay couples for young gay men to look up to. A lot of older gay men are still in the sauna or club trying to mack on their next piece of meat.
==============================================================================================
Thank you, 25 years in a monogamous relationship here and don’t go around complaining
about ageism, cause for some reason ( my personality, and education) I do not get any ageism,
the opposite my BF and I are usually treated very well and people remember us….because?
Respect is earn not due, and rudeness is a common factor to all gender and sexuality and ages,
and we all get it from time to time.
Don’t give up, you will get your bf, it takes time and perseverance but you will find him, there are
many guys out there looking for the same, not everyone is a butcher selling meat.
Realitycheck
@Deon Letsoalo:
Deon Letsoalo wrote:
Urgh! Not everyone enjoys the company of the elderly. Build a fucking bridge and get the hell over it. This “ageism” crap is as ancient as the gargoyles who spew it. Give it a rest already -_-
==============================================================================================
Well spoke, t is your right to associate yourself with anyone you like, to me ageism is as ridiculous ad calling
sexual preferences the R word, P P Please……….. People like what they like and of discussion………..
Realitycheck
Realitycheck Realitycheck
@Deon Letsoalo:
Deon Letsoalo wrote:
Urgh! Not everyone enjoys the company of the elderly. Build a fucking bridge and get the hell over it. This “ageism” crap is as ancient as the gargoyles who spew it. Give it a rest already -_-
==============================================================================================
Well spoken, it is your right to associate yourself with anyone you like, to me ageism is as ridiculous as calling
sexual preferences the R-ism word, P-P-Please……….. People like what they like, end of discussion………..
Glücklich
@Homo Erectus:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39jN_CRGcbI
Glücklich
@BRYANinSF:
Was it Clobba or Outfit by any chance? They seem really unprofessional all around and the merch is garbage anyway.
Regardless, that’s a shitty experience.
Taskebab
@thomas prentice: There’s a huge difference between sarcasm and hateful. And you were VERY hateful…way to show that older guys are actually nice guys who don’t do anything wrong…
MarionPaige
We all need to admit first and foremost that some young gay men are DEFINED by their youth and attractiveness. Aging (and ageism), puts a cap on just how long some guy can get away with thinking that everybody wants him.
THERE WAS THIS GUY I would run into often in NYC. I never spoke to the guy, never hit on the guy, all I ever did was to just so happen to pass by the guy entering or leaving a club. AND, every single time I saw this guy, he appeared to be running away from me, as if it was understood that he was hot and that I had to want him. Well, cut to decades later and I see this ahole and he’s not running so fast and he’s not so convinced that every gay man wants him.
I feel liberated by the fact that guys I’ve known who were convinced that they were out of my league are not virtually invisible to young hot gay men. Because, you know what,
The only gay men adversely affected by ageism in the gay community are the ones who haven’t adopted to aging. If you are in your 50’s / 60’s and still trying to club (or worst, trying to DJ in clubs) KILL YOURSELF!
MarionPaige
@MarionPaige: “I feel liberated by the fact that guys I’ve known who were convinced that they were out of my league are NOW virtually invisible to young hot gay men.”
Bauhaus
@Homo Erectus:
Oh, my!
yonlon
Passing through life is like passing through the digestion system. Towards the end we come tu resemble and remind others of death, of what is excreted from this world. It is very hard for young people who have not been raised with a special familial resistance to the dominant culture to be reminded of death Passing through life is like passing through the digestion system. Towards the end we come tu resemble and remind others of death, of what is excreted from this world. It is very hard for young people who have not been raised with a special familial resistance to the dominant culture to be reminded of death, and even the death that is a necessary part of their own lives, without immediately turning away. This problem is ivy compounded by the metaphysics of male homosexuality, which often involves imagining shitless being. A similar metaphysics affects the wider culture, who live almost exclusively in places where turds and old people are swept away out of sight by invisible forces.
yonlon
Passing through life is like passing through the digestion system. Towards the end we come to resemble and remind others of death, of what is excreted from this world. It is very hard for young people who have not been raised with a special familial resistance to the dominant culture to be reminded of death, and even the death that is a necessary part of their own lives, without immediately turning away. This problem is only compounded by the metaphysics of male homosexuality, which often involves imagining shitless being. A similar metaphysics affects the wider culture, who live almost exclusively in places where turds and old people are swept away out of sight by invisible forces.
DistingueTraces
Youngsters, please don’t “flirt with me out of gratitude alone” as this article recommends.
Instead, honor the legacy of earlier generations by growing up into the kind of man who, when his looks stop getting him into clubs for free, experiences it as some kind of devastating loss.
Because hopefully by the time you’re middle-aged, there will be more to you than going to clubs.
Or, if there still isn’t, god willing you’ll at the very least be able to pay a cover charge without feeling the pinch.
DistingueTraces
@DistingueTraces: Sorry, I meant please DON’T grow up into that kind of man. Please grow up into the other kind of man.
Atomicrob
As an aging gay man, I do agree that young gay men are ageist, but most older gay men are far worse. Go to Manhunt and open the profiles of 50+ gym rats with adonis complexes who prefer men “18-35 ONLY” claiming “Sorry, it’s my preference, what can I say?” Another qualification is often, “I’m masculine/straight appearing and acting”, acting being the operative word. For some reason, they think having sex with a man is at its hottest if they can fantasize enticing a straight man to the “other side.” These attitudes stem from a any number of possible psychological motivations. Of course this all maspring from the fact that most gay men in clubs treat anyone over 36 as an aging dinosaur, hence, the obsession with remaining youthful. There always comes a point where it doesn’t work anymore. There’s only so many tubes of “Just for Men”, Origins face cream with retinol and hours stalking and pumping up at Sports Club LA before it ultimately fails us all.
Jim Guinnessey
Older Americans male and female Gay and Straight, are invisible thanks to a jaded press and entertainment media. Unless the oldster has big bucks and doesn’t mind spending them on the younger crowd(hustlers, opportunists, gigolos, etc.) not too many younger persons under forty are interested in seeing or listening to them in today’s pampered, catered to and somewhat brainless youth society. I know of a gay Washington D.C., quasi bath house that openly hosts a one day a week venue for “men over forty and those who love them.”
But let’s face it, sex has always been about youthful beauty whether male or female. A 75 year old man or woman, regardless of how much botox or face lifts, will look okay on the cover of AARP Magazine but not on the covers of Details, GQ, Vanity Fair and even Sports Illustrated.
john.k
I’m a 66 year old gay man living in Dublin, Ireland. I have a much, much younger boyfriend who played football with Ireland’s only gay football (soccer) team. Through him I’ve met most of the players in the club who are mainly in their 20s and 30s. I’ve become quite friendly with a lot of them and even went on a holiday with a group of them 3 years ago. They have always made me very welcome at club events and they chat to me as though I was one of them. If I go to a gay bar with another friend and some of the footballers are there they always come over to say hello. I make no bones about the fact that I love the company of younger guys. They energise me. Thankfully the young footballers give no indication of ageism. I’m not the only older guy they welcome into their company.
csports286
Ageism in the gay community is a real shame. I’m 20 and some of the most intriguing and most romantic guys I’ve dated have been 50+. Guys my age just wanna shag once and never talk again.
Doughosier
Ageism is unavoidable in a community that judges people on looks. Internet dating has allowed what was already shallow to go to the extreme. Your looks are more important than your brain so young people are more important than older.
Rob Ridings
I totally abhor ageism. That said, this letter—-coming from a publication that kinda perpetuates body elitism with daily photos of “buff hawt dudes with abs”, I’m kinda torn. But I’ll “Like” it anyways.
maxxbot
@Loundis Pot Pie: “It’s not ageist for a 20 year old to not be into hooking up with a guy old enough to be his father or grandfather.”
I hang out with mostly straight men in their 20s and almost every one I have talked to has expressed interest in hooking up with a “cougar.” Among gay men the same age the interest just isn’t there, the age standards are different for some reason. Some people have said that it’s because gay men are fixated on looks but young straight men are no different.
barkomatic
I’m a 44 year old guy and I don’t expect a 20 something to sleep with me to prove he’s not ageist. I don’t expect anyone of any age to sleep with me if they don’t want to. I do expect to be treated with basic dignity and charging someone a cover based on their age is very nasty. Although many may not say it, I think a lot of gay men expect older guys to disappear at a certain point.
Well, most guys in their late thirties/early forties *didnt* die off because safe sex and improved HIV medication saved most of us. Gen X’ers aren’t the kind to respect the box that may try to put them in either so that means you’re gonna see more older guys still participating in gay life. We may not all be going to circuit parties, but we will be in restaurants, bars, parties and other social events so the gay community in general will just have to get used to it.
Giancarlo85
@DannX68: Um my problem is when older gay men constantly pursue younger gay men even after being rejected and continue. I’ve experienced this myself. First off, I have a boyfriend… second, I am not interested in older men. If they want me or other younger gay guys to be defensive, then maybe they should start to respect boundaries a bit more.
Rosalynn D'Angela
have party with age limit no one over certain age allowed. then have party fpr older with no age limit ..some young guys like older for what ever reason
Wilberforce
Actually, that’s a good point. A lot of older gay men do run after young men in the ads. One of my best friends does it. I’ve never understood why. I’d rather not be next to a gym bunny with my old bod. And younger men usually don’t have much conversation. Maybe that’s a generalization, and I’m sure there are some educated ones out there. But finding them is too much trouble.
It would be nice just to be treated with respect by the young set. But after thirty some years in the scene, and after reading half the responses here, I’m sure that’s not going to happen.
yaletownman
The sad thing is that so many older gay men are as ageist as their young counterparts. Instead of creating a part of the culture for ourselves to enjoy we still believe that we must be a part of and accepted by the young guns. We can be as bad about ignoring our own age group as they are. Until we embrace and accept ourselves no body else is.
Getting older can be a beautiful thing. We have so much experience, so many stories to tell so much history, Many of us have relationships that have stood the tests that life can hand out and can be sources of inspiration, hope and guidance. We have learned to overcome and can help those who are facing the same. We also can be sexy and we don’t always need a 20 something to validate that.
As a society, gay or straight, we glorify youth and demonize maturity. there are probably some good reasons for that. Many see the older generations as the part of the population that is holding the world back and they are just waiting for us to die. Just look at marriage equality and who is for us and who is against us. The same is true in so many areas. We can change that perception. At least in our own community.
Charging extra because someone is older is wrong and reinforces the disrespect that we live with but we need to fight ageism in a different way. We can begin by celebrating ourselves, respecting who we are and the lives we have lived. We should also be bringing our hearts to the younger generations, especially our youth. Often times they didn’t get the love and parenting they need and that’s left the entrance into adulthood difficult for them. Many of them don’t need sex from us but they do need us. Many need the affirmation, validation, guidance and love they never received.
Getting older has a purpose and when we embrace it we will start to s e ourselves differently And act accordingly. Then we might find ourselves celebrating our ages and the younger folks seeking to celebrate us as well.
Arcamenel
How about older gay men stop being creepy perverts ready to pounce on the first PYT they can find. They seek out the freshly out incredibly sheltered and naive ones and completely take advantage of them. I have seen it more than I’d like to and I’m only 25.
Steven Shelton
It has alway been , even in the 70’s when there were certain bars just for the older gay me, we still have a way to go , i am from Los Angeles and lived in Hollywood for many many years , i know .
Saint Law
Smell the fear on this thread!
If I go online or out to a bar, club or sauna there is one thing I can be sure of: the sexual interest of men much younger than myself. But beautiful as the young can be, as a general rule they are not, to me, sexual – unless they show a promise of the men they will become.
Small evidence of that here.
So to all the little peaches stewed in piss prating about their harassment at the hands of nefarious olds – get over yourselves. Not everybody can bear to look at your nasty unformed faces or listen to your infantile self entitlement – it’s a wonder you can stick yourselves.
You’ll pass from unripeness to decrepitude without any intervening period of maturity.
So look forward to a loveless and increasingly sexless future. Because truly, it couldn’t happen to more deserving candidates.
loren_1955
Many of these comments remind me of my coming out 6+ years ago. With all best intentions and sincerity I had in my mind that gays were united, happy, joyful and protective of each other. What I found was the complete opposite. Irregardless of age, I had never seen and felt the wrath of a more immature, self absorbed, narcissistic, cruel and rude group of men. In my prior 50+ years I had not experienced that kind of lack of civility in the straight world. For a while I really questioned the sanity of coming out and seriously considered going back into the closet. Come forward in time and I have found an incredible circle of friends that are honest, mature, similar backgrounds, young and old, and watch my back instead of waiting for the moment to stab it. I have been with young (20’s) men that are incredibly mature and wise to men in their 80’s with similar traits. Anyone of them I would trust, I would greet and know that I would be greeted. Too many in the gay world, no way…and that’s a shame because a person would think we are in this together instead of every man for himself.
jwtraveler
This seems like the same conversation that we had about white men being “r@cist” if they aren’t romantically or sexually interested in black men.
This is such a simple concept that I don’t know why it’s so difficult for so many to understand. I’ll try to put it as clearly as I can. No one is obligated to date me or have sex with me. If someone is uninterested in me for any reason, that’s his business and his right. But if someone decides that, because he is uninterested in dating or sleeping with me, that it’s OK to treat me rudely or disrespectfully, to bar me from a public event or charge me a fee for being unattractive to a certain segment of the population, that is deeply offensive and absolutely unacceptable, whether it’s r@cist or ageist or transphobic or any other form of bigotry.
I am not entitled to anyone’s affection, attentiveness or sexual interest. I am absolutely entitled to everyone’s respect. The guys who ran this event don’t seem to understand the difference. Some of you don’t either.
pmarky33525
The problem that these young men face will be that they, too, will soon find the sting of what they are doing to men that are older than them. These young men also seem to forget that it is our generation and those slightly younger that fought hard to even get the disease recognized and that it was us and our elders that made it possible for what is happening right now. My partner would be 77 if he had not died. He was one of the original members of the Mattachine Society in DC branch. He knew the founder. That was the generation that did all of the work that makes today possible.
The lame attempt of this La Te Da South Florida group of ‘aging’ circuit party people to portray themselves as the victim in this is quite laughable. They should be totally ashamed of themselves. So should anyone that rejects the presence of men that are not 35 and under.
Giancarlo85
Yup . Some of the old men here are just as ageist as the young guys they complain about. They constantly whine about younger men not being able to hold a conversation and so forth. Just ridiculous. And you wonder why younger guys are so defensive? Who the fuck are you guys anyways to say we aren’t capable of holding a conversation. Such vapid hypocrites.
Sweetie Pie
I don’t understand all the whoop…gay people are not that different from straight folks…the only difference is that we gay men like to have a dick up our asses or in someone else’s ass. Young people for the most part are selfish, self-centered and dumb whether gay or straight, they believe they will be 23 forever, some will be, at east mentally, and become old queens…and there is nothing sadder than an old queen
Giancarlo85
@Realitycheck: I have seen older men on this blog lack social maturity and are highly insecure. Some people make some big leaps on here. Not all older men are wise or know more than younger men. Maybe if some spent less time crying and bitching about younger guys, they could focus on their own serious personality faults.
Trajan Saldana
take a long hard honest look at our gay “community” and you’ll quickly discover it’s far from a true community in any way, and that “ageism” is the least of our failings. we can’t accept one another simply as people so why would we be shocked that we aren’t accepted by so many not of our “community”.
Giancarlo85
@Sweetie Pie: And this is exactly the immaturiy I was talking about. Being gay isn’t even about anal sex. You sound like you are 13.
SonOfKings
@Giancarlo85: I think this obvious vendetta you seem to have against older men stems from the likelihood that they are the ONLY men pursuing you. I’ve read a few of your posts, and have found your personality to be so toxic I can’t imagine younger men having the patience to put up with you.
odawg
@jason smeds: Please seek therapy because you clearly need it.
TomOH
I’m pushing 40 (currently 38) and I was never attracted to younger guys when I was in my 20’s and I’m not now – I’ve always been attracted to guys in their mid 30’s to late 40’s, personally. I can’t stand emaciated, underage looking guys, nor have I ever been attracted to flippant, shallow, vacant Abercrombie zombies. It is rather obnoxious when they jump the gun and carry on with all this “don’t hate me because I’m beautiful” attitude, when I never had my eye on them in the first place.
But it’s also sad to see people my age and older never grow up themselves, and completely shun people our own age as dating material. Before you go bitching about how some 20-something is being “ageist”, do something about your own “ageism” – if you’re 40 something and snubbing guys your own age because they’re too “old” for you, and you only want to hang around people half your age, grow the fuck up yourself. You’re just as much part of the problem.
SonOfKings
The Black, gay community has its share of problems, but one nice thing about being a chocolate warrior is that we don’t crack and don’t get put out to pasture by our own brothers at 35. It’s really all about respect, and “boys” who don’t respect men can hardly be considered men themselves. I really don’t have a problem with letting twinks into a party for free (under 25) because most, at that age, are just getting established financially. But then it should be $25.00 for all 25 and over, so as not to unjustly single out the over 40 folks alone as undesirable.
TomOH
Another thing, it was probably older gay men who organized this party in the first place and came up with the idea of some sort of “elderly tax”. It’s not like some 20-somethings have the extra cash to throw around to front the costs for such an event, let alone absorb any potential losses. I would be willing to bet this whole shindig was thrown by some prissy older gay men who left their 20’s kicking and screaming several decades ago.
SonOfKings
@TomOH: What is particulary pathetic are the guys in their later 30’s who have the nerve to look down on people that just turned 40, like it will never happen to them. Tsk, tsk…
jcmiami
Society in general is youth oriented period – just ask any plastic surgeon out there. Let’s face it youth sells AND buys the most too. I’m 52 now and I remember being 21 like yesterday. So I’m going to comment from both sides of the fence here.
I remember being 21 and getting hit on by 40,50,60+ men and thinking how disgusting that was. Worse off, some of these guys would not take no for an answer and when you stopped them you were accused of being a bitch or worse. They think that when yourre young you are “easy” aka a slut and will sleep with anyone even if they offered you “gift”s – WRONG!
I’m that 52 year old now but with a difference. The difference being I’m aware there’s a time and place for everything and my 20 year old days are over. I still now see older men with bad plastic surgery, dyed hair, wearing Ambercombie & Fitch clothes hitting on 20 year Olds and looking simply pathetic AND CREEPY. The reverse can be said when a 20 year old hits on a 50 year its 99.99% the time a hustler looking for money. Now with the Internet (and photoshop) replacing bars – the same continues but in the cyber world. There’s ageism everywhere face it that’s reality.
SonOfKings
@Sweetie Pie: I think straights may be be a little less delusional about age matters than gays. By the time they are 23, many straights know they will be having children and raising a family in a couple of years. So they, generally, don’t consider turning 30 to be a contagious disease, like gay twinks often do.
Giancarlo85
@SonOfKings: You don’t know anything about me. Most guys who pursue me are around my age. Thanks for playing, repulsive asshole. You seem to have everything figured out. My personality is fine and my boyfriend is 27. Have a nice day! Stupid hit and run troll.
Dakotahgeo
Blessedly, I will be marrying a wonderful Brazilian young man this December. I will be 71, he will be 41. We have known each other for eight years and he has more artistic talent in his little finger than most young people have in their entire life. He is gorgeous, well-mannered, and has a sense of humor that won’t quit. Those who have met him (he visited in January of 2011) are warmed by his personality. I’ve never had to worry about his faithfulness or his dedication to our relationship. So I respectfully submit that it isn’t all about ageism by the young. When you get to be in your mid-, late 60s or 70s, miracles DO happen. And I am so happy for the both of us! (He chased ME for 2 months, and I wasn’t even aware… unnngh!).
jcmiami
@Chris-Tyler Young: 100% in agreement with you on that!
jiminqueens
In the immortal words of Agatha Christie, “The young think the old are fools–but the old KNOW the young are fools!”
DonovanS28
This has to be the dumbest post Ive ever seen? Not everyone wants to date you anymore big whoop! Grow up oh wait that should’ve happened already.
A message to older guys, stop letting younger men opinions and actions toward you define you in such a way that you actually rally behind a stereotypical websites poorly thought, childishly presented post about how you feel towards a generation of people who call car horns, farts, and piano music……. My mistake I think that trash is called poppers music…… no thats not it……. OH EDM thats what its called -_-
jwtraveler
Oops! Blocked for using the dreaded “r-word”. I’ll try again.
R@cist white people will never experience the injustice of being black or brown. Sexist men will never experience the injustice of being female. But I take some comfort and pleasure in knowing that you nasty, narcissistic twinks will (if you’re lucky) someday experience the injustice and indignity of being old in a youth-oriented society. Suffer!
Dakotahgeo
@jwtraveler: Those young twinks of today may never be blessed enough to see old age… much is their loss… the pity of it all!
Dakotahgeo
@jwtraveler: BTW, THANK YOU for the above comment. Right on!
DarkZephyr
@Loundis Pot Pie: who is saying that you have to actually fuck an older man? I think the only point that this article is making is that you don’t have to be a douche bag if an older man shows up at a bar you are at or happens to glance your way with appreciation. Is that really asking so much?
@Realitycheck:
“Enough! Get real people, a young guy goes to a bar to meet who ever he likes,
NOT to spend hours politely talking to a bunch of tired old queens.”
“No there isn’t, what you have here, are few self entitled old queens,
wrongly believing they should be accepted and treated equally in spite of their own shortcomings by younger guys.”
All the article is calling for is respect. Nowhere did I read that it says you have to actually date an older guy. Seriously, is it really that necessary
DarkZephyr
@Loundis Pot Pie: who is saying that you have to actually fuck an older man? I think the only point that this article is making is that you don’t have to be a douche bag if an older man shows up at a bar you are at or happens to glance your way with appreciation. Is that really asking so much?
@Realitycheck:
“Enough! Get real people, a young guy goes to a bar to meet who ever he likes,
NOT to spend hours politely talking to a bunch of tired old queens.”
“No there isn’t, what you have here, are few self entitled old queens,
wrongly believing they should be accepted and treated equally in spite of their own shortcomings by younger guys.”
All the article is calling for is respect. Nowhere did I read that it says you have to actually date an older guy. Seriously, is it really that necessary to roll your eyes like a snarky bitch at the mere presence of an older gay man at a bar? Older gay men have just as much fucking right to be there after a long work week as the younger guys. This article isn’t about older gay men who exclusively hit on younger gay men and won’t take no for an answer. Nowhere was that even mentioned in the article. Like DannX68 said to another poster, you should be commenting one what is actually there, not writing your own articles in the comment section and then commenting on those. How can you call your posts “reality checks” when in truth they are unrelated to the actual article above?
Paul Dettmann
Newsflash: most people don’t want to fall in love with someone who is likely to die decades before they do.
Paul Dettmann
Oh look! Old men whining about how they can’t get with 20 year olds anymore.
You’re just as ageist as the 20 year olds who don’t want to get with you.
Guysexual
* slow claps *
Doughosier
Part of the problem is, I don’t feel any different than I did at 21 (I’m 51) I liked guys in my 20’s then and still do. I had friends back then who went for older guys but I never did. I now have a 27 year old boyfriend like that. He doesn’t like young guys. We’ve been together for 3 years. I doubt you can change what you’re attracted to.
DarkZephyr
@Doughosier: “I doubt you can change what you’re attracted to.”
I couldn’t disagree more. As I have gotten older my tastes have expanded and evolved.
Let me ask you this. Once your boyfriend hits 30, are you going to be showing him the door? I think ageism is disgusting whether you are a young guy or an older guy yourself.
DarkZephyr
@Paul Dettmann:
“Oh look! Old men whining about how they can’t get with 20 year olds anymore.”
But Paul, this article isn’t about older men wishing they could get with younger guys at all. Its about guys calling older men trolls or treating them with disdain or disrespect merely for being at the same places they are. This article has nothing to do with inter-generational dating. What are your thoughts on the points *actually made* by the article? I would be interested to hear those.
“You’re just as ageist as the 20 year olds who don’t want to get with you.
I agree with you here. Older men who absolutely refuse to even look at their own age range irritate me to no end. This doesn’t mean that I think they should never be allowed to date younger guys however. If there is a mutual love connection between two adult men of different ages then they should by all means pursue that and not allow other people’s prejudices to get in the way of a chance at genuine love.
Mike_M
All the hate from one side and other seems to miss the point really. The men they wanted to charge for the “privilege” of attending a potential orgy are the very ones with the money and the ability to make sizable donations to the organization. So when the organization can meets its fundraising goals, these same young men will be begging for the company of the older gay men they sought to exclude. By then, the older men will have found other organizations grateful for their attendance at their functions and their donations to the cause. You see, ageism can be denied or called something else but, the end result is still, a division where one need not have existed.
Some of the young guys on here arguing for division have one thing in common with the homophobes, assuming every older gay man is out to eat some chicken tonight. That may be true of a very few, but most of the older guys know the art of flirting and go home with who they came with. Hot bodies are fun to look at, but you rarely take home the ornaments. You take home someone you have something in common with.
caffesilvia
It’s so dangerous to tie your identity to something as fleeting as youth. It means you’re obliged to have an identity crisis down the road. Why do that?
winemaker
THIS RESPONSE IS FOR BRYAN IN SAN FRANCISCO; I CAN RELATE TO YOUR SITUATION IN THE STORE WHEN YOU ENQUIRED OF THE SALESMAN IF THEY HAD SHOES IN YOUR SIZE, WHICH YOU TOLD THE SALESMAN. HE THEN WENT INTO THE STOREROOM TO CHECK HIS INVENTORY. AFTER A FEW MINUTES, HE CAME OUT OF THE STOREROOM AND KNEW YOU WERE STANDING NEAR THE STOREROOM ENTRANCE AND HE DELIBERATELY IGNORED YOU AND WENT OVER TO ATTEND TO SOMETHING ELSE WITHOUT ACKNOWLEDGING YOU. HOW RUDE1 PERHAPS HIS OTHER BUSINESS LOOKED ‘HOTTER’, WHO KNOWS THE REAL REASON HE DIDN’T ATTEND TO WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN A SALE. LIKE YOU, I LIVE IN SAN FRANCISCO AND CAME INTO THE SCENE A FEW YEARS AGO. A FEW THINGS I’VE NOTICED ABOUT THE GAY MEN IN SAN FRANCISCO; THEY’RE SOME OF THE RUDEST, ARROGANT, MOST SELF CENTERED BUNCH OF ‘ENTITLED’ GUYS I’VE EVER HAD TO DEAL WITH. SOMEHOW, MEN OVER LET’S SAY 40, SEEM TO BE INVISIBLE, AND ARE TO BE GIVEN ‘ATTITUDE’ OR JUST PLAIN IGNORED. I FRANKLY ‘AM SO TIRED OF THE ARROGANT GUYS IN THIS CITY THAT I’M READY TO LEAVE. IT SEEMS IF YOU’RE NOT THEIR ‘TYPE’ THEY EITHER IGNORE YOU OR GIVE YOU ‘ATTITUDE’, AND THIS IS BEFORE SPEAKING TO YOU OR KNOWING YOU. I’M IN MY EARLY 60’S, LOOK TO BE IN MY EARLY 40’S, THANKS TO TAKING CARE OF MYSELF, WATCHING WHAT I EAT AND WEEKLY VISITS TO THE GYM . I’VE BEEN DOING THIS SINCE COMING OUT IN MY MID 20’S AND CREDIT ‘COMING OUT’ FOR BASICALLY SAVING MY LIFE. AT THAT TIME, I WEIGHED IN AT 378 LBS, HAD A GOING NOWHERE LIFE. I REMEMBER GOING TO MY FIRST GAY BAR. THE MEN EITHER COMPLETELY IGNORED ME OR GAVE ME ‘ATTITUDE’. I DECIDED THEN AND THERE, I WAS GOING TO CHANGE MY LIFE. I JOINED A GYM, STARTED DIETING AND THROUGHOUT THIS LONG JOURNEY, THE WEIGHT CAME OFF IN SPURTS BUT THE MEN STILL TREATED ME INDIFFERENTLY. OVER THE YEARS I’V REALIZED THAT I DON’T NEED VALIDATION FROM A BUNCH OF SHALLOW, SELF-CENTERED ARROGANT MEN TO FEEL GOOD.
Giancarlo85
@Doughosier: You are 51 and your boyfriend is 27? I just shake my head when I see relationships like that. The younger one is dating a guy old enough to be his dad. I am pretty sure once he gets older, you will be running off with another young guy… If you can find any.
And yes tastes change all the time.
SonOfKings
@Giancarlo85: You are contradicting and exposing yourself. One minute you’re complaining about being pursued by older men, and what an inconvenience that is; next you are bragging about being pursued by younger men and holding your make believe 27 year old boyfriend up as a trophy. Which is it? Is everyone pursuing you? Have you got it like that? If so, why are you on the Internet 24-7 trolling for attention? Spoiled child: 12 going on 56.
Dominic Thorncroft
I have many older gay friends, and I have been out with a few older men, but I’m not interested in having sexual intercourse with someone older then my father, I’ve been called ageist before for politely declining an offer of sex from a 63 year old, I honestly don’t think of myself as ageist,
But then you could turn it around, where do there far older men get away with thinking it’s ok to prey on far younger lads to push them into doing sexual activities and then shaming them when they don’t want to.
jason smeds
Let’s face it – when you build your life on a sex act, you become very selfish as a person. Gay men are notoriously selfish as their social scene is built on sex and feeling good.
Face it – gay men live for the moment. They want their moment to be filled with lust and good times. After the lust is over, they go home to re-charge their batteries and then they’re at it again the following weekend. It is the height of “me culture”, as in “me, me, me, repeat, repeat, repeat”.
If you want interesting conversations about issues that don’t have anything to do with sex or what Lady Gaga wears on a stage, please don’t go to a gay bar.
Josiah Junior Cornell
I would never date anyone under 26, as for 20 yr olds I’m old enough to be their father, but then what these youngsters fail to think is one day they’ll be old
Realitycheck
@Giancarlo85:
Giancarlo85
@Realitycheck: I have seen older men on this blog lack social maturity and are highly insecure. Some people make some big leaps on here. Not all older men are wise or know more than younger men. Maybe if some spent less time crying and bitching about younger guys, they could focus on their own serious personality faults.
============================================================
True and thank you, that is actually the unspoken problem, lots of older guys
forgot to grow up.
Realitycheck
@DarkZephyr:
I am all for respect, my comments were about older guys complaining
about ageism, if some one is gratuitously rude, of course
you are 100% right, but the reality of it all, most, not all, but most younger
guys do not want to be around older guys, and that is fine.
That is actually the way it should be, and life experience has taught me that
more often then not people of any age have hidden reasons for friendship.
Lets face it the younger cuter girl or guy will get the job first as long as they
have half a brain that is the way our society works.
I think I have never heard straight people complaining of ageism, in fact
we have stereotype of the dirty old man going after younger girls,
so why are older gay guys complaining about being left out from the
younger crowd? Younger people don’t want us around and that is
exactly the way it should be.
Going back to the party, most of what we read here are just suppositions,
we really don’t know why they did that, except we can assume, to gather
a younger crowd, and there is nothing wrong with that.
It is their party and it is pointless for people to make all kind of comments
about sex and drugs and mismanagement, true or not, these are all irrelevant,
that party was conceive and organized to function in a specify way as sen by
the organizers and it is their party, end of discussion.
Giancarlo85
@SonOfKings: Where did I say guys my age don’t go after me? You are reading into things that aren’t there and you are showing how much of a nasty hypocrite you are.
I didn’t even say anyone was pursuing me. My observation is that many older men try to pursue younger men. You seem to read into things I never said. That’s the problem with yet another internet troll who just decided to show his face.
“If so, why are you on the Internet 24-7 trolling for attention? Spoiled child: 12 going on 56.”
Impossible as I work. Maybe focus on yourself. You seem to have serious chips on your shoulders.
@jason smeds: Building your life on a sex act huh? Is that why you’re constantly sexualizing latin men? You are fixated on butts.
martinbakman
Methinks that the lady doth protest too much, or something like that.
How will this Org make money, then, if they charge the young, dumb, eye candy 50 bucks to get in and these youngsters don’t show up.
How will the mature gays enjoy the pool party with no eye candy there?
Isn’t this how men get their jollies, straight or gay, making sure the young, pretty meat is around?
Kevin White
How much does the organizer of those parties keep for themselves in “admin costs”???
mashalti
Many of us old(er) men discriminated too when we were young(er). So, we are kinda seeing the treatment that we meted out to our seniors. Time to make amends and just not crib and cry foul. The young and the old need to work to make things change.
Stache99
@martinbakman: How do you know that the young meat is pretty? There’s a ton of young ugly dudes out there.
Btw they get their money from the AHF.
Stache99
@Doughosier: How ya going to handle it when he turns 30 and out of your interests since you say you’re not into anyone over 30. Are you going to confiscate the credit cards and show him the door or just have a sexless relationship?
sideout
I do have to agree that the forced donation was inappropriate. That being said, in terms of ageism in general, I think that it is fair to put things in perspective. For so long the gay community had been so small that dating gaps of 10+ years was all too common (for whatever reason, and I think there are many). I think nowadays it is rapidly catching up to the heterosexual world where it is more socially appropriate to date those closer to your age. If you saw a 50 year old male at the bar hitting on a 20-25 year old girl, in some bars teeth would be flying – why is this such a shock within the gay community? I know that on dating sites/apps that there is no reason for someone over 35-40 to be contacting me. It is a dating site. Friends are met through common interests and (for me at least) not online. While I would not discriminate these men based on age in other contexts, in my dating/sex life it is inappropriate for them to be contacting me with a sexual intention.
I realize that this perspective may seem disrespectful of the previous generations, but I can assure you I don’t intend it in that way. There are many guys out there and most of us are going to find someone of a similar age because you often have similar experiences and interests.
Stache99
@sideout: Yeah, I’m sure your a real sexual prize for anyone.
StuC777
Let me speak as an old guy (71). And please bear with me, I’m gonna go on for a while.
First, I don’t go to places where I’m not wanted, and slapping me with a $50 cover charge is a pretty clear sign. I’d rather go to a party where I’m welcome. New York party promoters Daniel Nardicio and “Shame Less” are the best in the business, always welcoming me by name and showing me a good time. Promoters who don’t want older men are hurting themselves; SOMEBODY has to buy the drinks and hand out the tips, and it isn’t generally the younger guys.
Second, I fully understand the aversion some young guys have with older men. There will always be the guy who grabs your package without so much as a “hi-how-are-you.” Indeed, even at my age there are people who grab ME. Nobody should be treated like a piece of meat. But most older men do NOT want to hop into bed with the closest boy. We don’t want to have sex with you, and we certainly don’t want to rape you. While we may be attracted by your beauty, it is entirely possible that we are genuinely interested in other things: your mind, for example, or your artistic talents, or your hopes and dreams. I am personally not remotely interested in a package unless I’m also interested in the person that package is attached to.
So third, dear party promoters: don’t exclude us. I have been to many parties where young and old get along famously well. If we misbehave, toss us out. But most of us won’t. You’ll have a better party, you’ll make more money for your cause, and we’ll all have a good time. Thank you.
Stephen Meeks
One of the worst problems within the Gay Community.
sideout
@StuC777: Well said.
@Stache99: and thank you for your comment.
Sweetie Pie
@Giancarlo85: So now you are the authority who decides what being gay is all about?…being gay means different things to different people, in principle means being attracted to people of the same sex, and yes, anal sex is for many guys part of being gay and part of their sexuality..butt fucking is part of being gay for a lot of men, tops, bottoms, and versatiles, whether you like it or not or whether you practice it or nor.
Giancarlo85: the eternal and ultimate fountain of gay wisdom who graces us with his pearls of infinite wisdom about what is gay and what is not….LMAO !!
Doughosier
@DarkZephyr: None of us have s guarantee for tomorrow. My lover and I have been together 3 years and are happy. Once you’ve been with someone awhile, the physical doesn’t mayter as much. You see the inner person. But initially, there has to be a physical attraction. At least for me.
Elcaganer
@Daniel Bujes:@Paul Dettmann: I hope you live long enough to eat your words. Do you think you’ll always be young? If you’re lucky you’ll get old too…and I say by the looks of you that you won’t be a very pretty old dude.
So why don’t you stop WHINING. IF it weren’t for us you’d still be running the risk of having the cops round you up from gay bars for illegal congregation and shaming you in the newspapers. Because your generation doesn’t have the wherewithal to do anything about injustice as attested to by your post.
Believe me we’re not going away because of “people” like you.
Maxipadawan
“They put up with a lot of shit and created a lot of change so you don’t have to. You should be flirting with them out of gratitude alone.”
Really, Queerty? That’s pretty fucking offensive. I’m 24 years old and have incredible respect for those who fought for our rights back in the day. I had a really great experience coming out at 19 and that wouldn’t have been possible without the previous generations making it known to the world that we are just like everyone else. That we deserve the freedoms that everyone else has.
Social justice classes and Queer Studies courses have taught me a solid amount about Queer history and I’m PRETTY sure no one took the streets in the Stonewall riots because they wanted to flirt with young men in the future.
This “open letter” had already made me roll my eyes several times until I got to that sentence and realized what utter bullshit you’ve published.
Yes, there is ageism. In every community. It sucks. The key is to realize that the only way to solve that problem is to get over it, and find better people. Don’t try to pursue what you can’t have just because you can’t have it.
People need to realize that there are exceptions to every rule and stereotype. There are so many men, at so many ages, whom I know personally couldn’t give a damn how old you are, as long you have your shit together and act like human being.
Shame on you, Queerty. Be better. I’m not flirting with anybody I don’t want to.
onthemark
@Sweetie Pie: Giancarlo is always here to edify us and correct us.
Giancarlo is like GOD… all-seeing, all-knowing, omnipotent, and most definitely omnipresent!
The main difference between God and Giancarlo is… on the seventh day, God rested.
notevenwrong
Giancarlo and his friends complaining about those pesky older guys polluting their immaculate West Hollywood view. Basically older guys offend Giancarlo by daring to be visible.
Well, maybe you can write an app for the new Microsoft virtual reality glasses to edit them out of your view. With a bit of luck, they will malfunction and also edit out the drunk driver speeding through your next pedestrian crossing.
notevenwrong
@Realitycheck: “Younger people don’t want us around and that is
exactly the way it should be.”
No, it is not the way it should be. It is one thing to not want to date older, but “not want us around”? Really? Just to see us is offensive to them? Sounds like Barbara Bush not wanting to pollute her “beautiful mind” with what was happening in Iraq. What next? No Blacks or Hispanics? It is their party after all.
nature boy
hahhahaha. what a tempest in a teapot. I well remember the common bathhouse policy that gave young men free or reduced rate admission. And I often took advantage of that discount. Same as a “ladies night” at a bar where women could get free admission or free drinks. The older dudes in the bathhouse didn’t have a problem with a promotion that brought more young guys into the place, more often. It’s just business. You don’t want to pay, then don’t pay.
I also remember a time when I thought 28 was really way too old !!! And I definitely didn’t want to date or hook up with anyone as old as my father (age 40) or grandfather (age 60). So i don’t mind kids that have that same opinion. Now 40 seems young to me though and 30 is like a baby !!!
I also realize now that while I just turned 49 …that in my own mind I’m still in my late 20’s. That’s how I feel and what I see when I look in the mirror. It’s only the photos that tell the cold hard truth. Taking some selfies over the last few years has been a reality check that my outer self doesn’t match my inner self any more ! There must be something wrong with the camera ! So the young guys need to understand that the older guys actually feel young on the inside. I’ve never yet met an older person who says they actually feel their chronological age on the inside.
Part of the gay rights movement is the freedom to say “if I’m not hurting someone else I get to look for love or sex with whomever I want, as long as we’re both consenting adults”. So go for what you want. I’ve had several older friends with devoted younger boyfriends. There’s someone for everyone. Life’s a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death! For all you young’uns out there that’s a quote from an iconic gay movie that you absolutely must sit down and watch sometime, Auntie Mame from 1958 with Rosalind Russell (not the Lucille Ball one). You’ll be surprised how much you’ll enjoy it. It’s great for a party as well.
I’ve realized I’m also guilty of the same ageism myself when it comes to women…. silver haired women are virtually invisible to me. I meet them but really pay no attention and basically just automatically dismiss them. Trying to change that behavior now that I’ve recognized it. It’s no fun for them either.
@yonlon: your comment is actually my favorite here, you’re absolutely right about our cultural taboos. Getting to know and celebrate your butt and aging/ death as an intrinsic part of life would make our society a lot healthier overall.
john.k
@Giancarlo85: Here’s another head shaker for you. I’m 66 and my boyfriend is 28. We’ve been together for 9 years. And I’m not going to dump him when he hits 30. I wonder will he dump me when I get to 70? Oh , and his father is 2 years older than me. The thing is – he is attracted to men over 50 with grey hair. I thought that might change as he got older but it hasn’t so far.
Giancarlo85
@Sweetie Pie: Again, I am not saying anything. I don’t care what someone does. This is only from my personal perspective. I cannot and will not stop someone from being who they want to be.
” anal sex is for many guys part of being gay and part of their sexuality..butt fucking is part of being gay for a lot of men, tops, bottoms, and versatiles”
So you’re basically being a condescending asshole and telling me I shouldn’t tell others what being gay is, yet you do it here? You’re a massive hypocrite. I am versatile, but anal sex is far from what defines me.
@john.k: That’s gross. In my opinion.
Giancarlo85
@notevenwrong: Be visible all you want and go to bars all you want. But don’t try to hit on younger men who clearly reject your advances and then persist on doing it. Slightly annoying.
Thanks for trying to parrot the other condescending prick.
Doughosier
Age is a number. Lumping all older guys into one category is as bad as judging all black people into one category or all Jewish people. We’re all human beings and individuals. After you are with someone a while, you cease to notice their looks. You see what’s underneath. That’s why so many gay relationships don’t last. They get together for looks and when that wears off, they break up.
john.k
@Giancarlo85: And of course you are entitled to your opinion. There is a little word with a big meaning that describes what has kept us together – LOVE!
notevenwrong
@Giancarlo85: “Be visible all you want and go to bars all you want. But don’t try to hit on younger men who clearly reject your advances and then persist on doing it.”
I certainly don’t. It is the younger guys who hit on me.
But it is not even about sex. You are the one who said you wouldn’t even be friends with someone ten years older, which pretty much says everything we need to know about you.
calpoidog
I remember when I was in my 20’s. I was never interested in someone my age now (50’s). As much as I would like younger guys to be attracted to me, it doesn’t happen unless their into older guys. I noticed it when my hair started turning gray…I became invisible (unless, for some reason, my shirt was off).
The same thing goes the other way. I see guys my age obsessed with younger men. It embarrasses me to see them chase after guys who have no interest. Or the guys that “only date younger men” What happens when they age? You just break up with them?
It is what it is and no amount of preaching or shaming is going to change a thing.
SonOfKings
@Giancarlo85: You’re a hater and you’ve been 29 for 15 years. If you had a life and a man, you wouldn’t be posting here so compulsively.
serviceman
I think it’s rather disgusting for a 50 yo to get pissed because a 20 year old won’t give them the time of day. You are 2 generations removed from a 20 year old. Why would you want to sleep with one for any other reason then you are a child molester. I’m sorry, it’s gross for an 50 old straight guy to be all over a 20 year old girl why should it be any different just because your gay. Give me a break. Someone who is old enough to be someones grandfather should not be pissed because they are not crawling all over you. I didn’t want someone in their 50’s when I was 20 and I don’t want someone in their 50’s now that I”m in my 30’s. I want someone from my own generation where I actually have something in common with them. This isn’t ageism. This is a fact of life. I don’t care how old you are you don’t have a god given right to have young guys fawning over you. Stop being pigs and start chasing after someone your own age. You all bitch your sick of being single yet not a dam one of you would fuck each other. If you won’t fuck each other where do you get the nerve to pissed when someone less then half your age won’t fuck you.
Rakmusen
I can see both sides now that I’m 54. When I was in my 20’s and 30’s, I admit was ageist, because life experience has given me those “new eyes” with which to see it. Even now, I think it might’ve been even worse- I was superficial in being appearance-oriented instead of judging men on their age. I had few qualms back then hooking up with men who were (at the time)significantly older than myself, but they met certain criteria; they weren’t overweight (the difference between “bear” and “Jabba-sized” is quite real), had all their teeth, didn’t have BO, etc.
But now that I’m on the other side of this particular fence, and though, truth-be-told-if, you saw me you’d never guess that someone like George Clooney and I are the same age, I may *still* a bit “appearance-oriented”. 😉
I honestly can’t tell, because there are also still 20 & 30-somethings who make advances toward me and want to hook up. Sometimes I say “NO”, sometimes I say “Sure!” I have to wonder what criteria THEY are using when looking at ME.
I think when all the visual bullshit is trimmed away, age and appearance are rather small in comparison to personality and intelligence; those define what we’re attracted to (or not).
To paraphrase George Carlin, “Ever notice the guys who are ageist are the ones you wouldn’t want to fuck anyway?”
Rakmusen
@Wilberforce: “I think that’s part of why young queens are so mean. Americans in general don’t like to feel stupid. And being around people who know more does that.”- BINGO.
Rakmusen
@Paul Dettmann: “Newsflash: most people don’t want to fall in love with someone who is likely to die decades before they do”- Wow, that’s not harsh at all.
Rakmusen
And as a side-note, the functionality of this site is utter shit.
I’ve been trying to update my profile and all I’ve been getting is a blank page when I click on “Edit Profile”. I’ve tried using/clicking on both my profile name AND “Edit Profile”, refreshed both this page and the blank one that comes up, logged out & back in, restarted the ‘puter, but the blank page STILL comes up.
I think I now remember why I never really use this site…
Rakmusen
@Homo Erectus: “I have fantasies of going into a twink bar some night and throwing peanuts at all the Tylers and Ryans and Dakotas, and seeing them go into imaginary psychosomatic anaphylactic shock.”– Ok, I DID laugh at that one!
garthjosen
I am 53 years old and must play devil’s advocate on this issue. To say young Gays are selfish, self centered, and only interested in having fun is not completely fair. I’ve spent plenty of time in bars and restaurants with young Hetero colleagues to know that’s how all young people act. We were like that as well. I must also say older Gay men are not the only ones whose eyes wander toward the younger set. Hetero men do plenty of that. It’s not a Gay thing, it’s a men thing. I’m married to a man two years younger than myself. When I was younger I preferred older guys. I had my first serious boyfriend at 18 and he was 25. Taste and preferences change with time. I have a piece of advice for both groups. Young men should engage older men in friendships as their wisdom and experience could be a great resource. For us older men, we should engage our younger tribe members as mentors and friends. With that said, I do not put down getting involved with someone younger or older than you if that is what makes you happy.