Arizona State Linebacker Chip Sarafin Comes Out, But That’s Hardly The Most Interesting Thing About Him

Screen Shot 2014-08-13 at 9.58.43 AMThe Arizona State Sun Devil’s have a powerhouse linebacker by the name of Edward “Chip” Sarafin, and not just because of his skills on the field.

He also holds a degree in biomedical engineering, is pursuing a masters in the same field and all the while is preparing for his MCATs.

And he just came out of the closet in a very public, very casual way.

In a feature for gay sports magazine Compete, Sarafin almost seems to brush off his coming out as a side note. And with everything he’s involved with from athletics to academics, it actually is.

He began telling his teammates last Spring, saying, “It was really personal to me. It really benefitted my peace of mind greatly.”

And by omission, it seems that nobody seemed to have much of a problem with it. Or if they did, Sarafin certainly doesn’t seem concerned.

Asked what makes a good role model, he said, “Someone who gives back to everyone and loves his family…that’s the type of man I want to be.”

Looks like you’re well on your way, Chip.

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Olympic Swimmer Comes Out As Gay At “Most Conservative University” in U.S.

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  • Cam

    If it’s not that interesting about him, then why is it the only reason there is a posting about it here. ;)

  • cformusic

    is it just me..or does he look more like a lineman than a linebacker?

  • Little-Kiwi

    nobody’s “gayness” is the most interesting thing about them. no gay person is more or less “defined by being gay” than any other. we’re all defined by it the same way, the same amount. how we FEEL ABOUT being gay, however, is defined by how we’ve met the challenges we’ve faced in life, and our surroundings.

    but, no. there are no gay men for whom “their being gay is the most interesting thing about them” – the reason a great many of us choose, however, to talk about it a lot is simply to pick up the slack – as so many in our communities refuse to come out, and talk about it, there are those of us who will continue, always, to talk about it. publicly. visibly.

  • Scribe38

    Mmmm… come here Mr. Bear and give me a hug.

  • SportGuy

    Awesome for him!! Between him and Michael Sam, were finally getting some real masculine men coming out and representing the gay professional athlete community. Congrats.

  • nowliveit

    Yea! Another bear comes out. And an intelligent bear.

  • Little-Kiwi


    you’re not masculine until you come out. so, will be you next? feel free to post a URL to show us all who you are, so we can see you represent these, uh, “real masculine men” that you want to represent you.

    i mean, you’ll do it, right? to not do it would just make you a non-masculine little wimp.

    blog page? youtube page? instagram account? post it here.

  • Desert Boy

    Congrats Chip!

  • Little-Kiwi

    @DarkZephyr: SportsGuy being closeted. Duh! LOL

    closet-cases are always pretending to be “masculine” while sitting back in the darkness waiting for someone else to do all the hard work for them.

  • Bauhaus

    Damn, SportGuy just got pummeled.

  • Stefano

    @Little-kiwi : exactly.

  • lykeitiz

    @Bauhaus: Right! And I’m still trying to figure out why.

    @SportGuy: I agree!

  • Little-Kiwi

    @lykeitiz: i can explain it to you.

    only insecure homosexuals say what “SportGuy” said. if you’re not Out, you’re not “masculine” – you’re a boy. the opposite of being a man is not a woman, but a boy. boys lie, boys evade, boys give excuses, boys hide. men stand up to be counted.

    it’s always the still-closetde and insecure members of our community who say things like “Finally! more real masculine gay men are coming out” – all openly gay men are masculine. all closeted gay men are not.

    that’s reality.

  • SportGuy


    Thanks for the support buddy. I just ignore it as some people like to try and start wars for no reason. You took my statement as it was intended!

  • Little-Kiwi

    to put in simpler terms for any other low-thinkers out there…

    “If you’re so masculine, why aren’t you Out? and if guys like you are ‘real men’ why do you come out wayyyy later than the guys you like to think are “not real men” or are Lesser men? If you’re such a “masculine real man” then why does it take you so much longer to be strong and brave like those guys you choose to denigrate?”

  • Little-Kiwi

    @SportGuy: i can dumb it down again for you, too.


    when you say “were finally getting some real masculine men coming out…” you’re stating that all the other people who are Out aren’t “masculine enough” or aren’t “real men” enough.

    and, like i said, your likely inability to do what i said (and show yourself) proves my point: insecure guys who don’t have the balls do to what others do, and wait for others to do the hard work for them.

    all you needed to say was “congrats on him coming out” – that’s it, that’s all. his coming out is no more brave than the coming out experiences of anyone else.

    maybe one day, when you finally come out for real, you’ll understand.

  • Stefano

    @Little-Kiwi : LOL you hit the nail on the head

  • DarkZephyr

    @SportGuy: If your statement was intended to be taken as something that denigrates so called “feminine” gay men who are out and proud and denies their status as “real men”, then that is certainly how I took it.

    @lykeitiz: So you agree that “feminine” gay men are not “real men”?

  • JaredNorthcutt30

    But really the most important thing by Queerty standards is what his nipples look like. They’re holding out on us.

  • lykeitiz

    @Little-Kiwi: No…..I can explain it to you.

    Whether you like it or not, there are millions of heteros worldwide whose opinions on gays (and gay rights) will be changed when they see masculine gay athletes, and once again, whether you like it or not, we need their support.

    Not to mention all the young gay athletes who will have someone relatable to look up to. Do you think only young drag queens deserve inspiration? Remember…this is new ground we’re breaking.

    Not even all gay people can accept that there’s no difference between our “straight acting” and our “effeminate” brothers & sisters, so what do you suppose the ratio is in the straight world?

    Although you make great points about the courage to come out, I don’t think that’s what was intended.

    @SportGuy: Am I close?

  • lykeitiz

    @DarkZephyr: Absolutely not, and I don’t think that’s what was intended.

  • SportGuy


    Yes, you are correct! I don’t get involved in internet wars and I appreciate you explaining it, but I don’t want you dragged into a pointless internet fight! So yes, that is what was meant and there is no need to explain it further. People will try to start a war over anything. Thanks for the support. Your a good guy.

  • tdh1980

    @lykeitiz: A gay man’s gender expression will never compensate for a homophobe’s capacity to hate. Ever. So get that notion out of your head. All that “masc” performing does is allow them to tolerate you — not accept you, not like you, and not see you as an equal. At the end of the day, you’re still a faggot, and they still can’t stand faggots. Period. We don’t need more “masculine” gay men to come out; we need more gay men to accept and be proud of themselves and each other for who we are and stop seeking approval from haters as if we need their permission to simply be.

  • lykeitiz

    @SportGuy: I don’t normally engage either, but the BS level on this one was too high to walk away. And you’re right, it doesn’t need to be explained any further, so now I’m done.


    @tdh1980: You say: “we need more gay men to accept and be proud of themselves and each other for who we are and stop seeking approval from haters”

    Funny…that’s exactly what I thought these athletes were doing. Sorry that you don’t get to pick & choose. And don’t twist my words.

  • SportGuy


    LOL, let it go! It’s over with, lol. You did a good job of explaining. :-D

  • Little-Kiwi

    @lykeitiz: you’re dead wrong.

    what new ground? how many more athletes need to come out in order for the anti-gay bigots to change their minds and opinions? understand this – people choose to see what they want to see.

    i call your bluff, its’ typical bullshit from guys like you.

    “Gee, you know, I didn’t support gays until this here football feller came out”, said no anti-gay bigot, ever.

    TDH1980 said it PERFECTLY. well met, brother!

    I’ve been out for nearly 15 years now. And in those 15 years, know what’s happened? All the straight folks around me have become outspoken and visible advocates for our community. My family and I? We march in the pride parades together every year. My straight friends? not only do they join in as well, but back in 2009 12 of my straight buds got on a bus to DC to attend the National Equality March – all this, because of me. And I’m not an athlete. I am, however, an awesome dude with an actual spine.

    great. an athlete comes out. you think that’ll make anti-gay people have “A new idea about gays”? elaborate – because “now that i know some of you gays also play football, ill be a less bigoted asshole” isn’t usually the case.

    a gay man should be respected. regardless. not just one “that also plays football”

    i like how you jumped from football to drag queens. what, did you also grow up with shitty parents that denigrated and mocked drag performers?

    it’s so neat about ‘sporty gays’ – so many are looking for role models, so few Sporty Gays have the balls to step up to be their role models. ironic, eh?

    closeted athletes looking for heroes, and their would-be-heroes are too cowardly to do it.

    why not look at the countless Inspiration Models that already exist? no – they’re not all drag queens. although without Drag Queens we’d be nowhere – STONEWALL, dude.

    know whom i related to? people who stood up to be counted, and who met their challenges in life from a place of honesty. my role models didn’t need to look or sound or behave like me – my role models were always people that defied a hateful world and stood up for what is right. figures that i came out while still a teenager, then.

    so, if one’s “opinion is changed” by “masculine gay athletes”….changed to what? because if the change doesn’t include “and are also now supportive and championing of non-sports playing “non-masculine” gay men” then it’s fucking pointless useless bullshit.

    “i don’t hate gays as long as they’re indistinguishable from straight men”, said a worthless piece of shit whose opinion should be discounted.

  • Dxley

    so much butthurt in here!

  • michael mellor

    Tgank goodness we aren’t assuming that being gay automatically makes you an interesting personality.

  • YouGoGurl

    @Little-Kiwi: “i can explain it to you.” “to put in simpler terms for any other low-thinkers out there…” ” i can dumb it down again for you, too.” Really, Kiwi? Can you be any more of a pompous, sniffy stereotype? I get that you might feel passionate about this issue, but your condescending affect is not only antagonistic, I’m guessing it’s also a very thin mask for your fragile and low self-esteem. Maybe you might want to start treating people and their opinions (even though you may vehemently disagree) with a little respect, and consideration. Yes, even online, when you are posting anonymously.

  • Little-Kiwi

    @YouGoGurl: the only opinions worth respecting are ones that are not inherently disrespectful to others.

    I’m not respecting a stupid and disrespectful “opinion” – ever.

    click my name, “yougogurl”, and you’ll see me. in all my fagile glory. can we see you? or will you just be switching screen names around here for a while?

  • SteveDenver

    Reading how he perceives acceptance from his teammates and how great coming out has been for his personal life makes me so happy for him. His future looks bright and he isn’t dodging or concealing anything about himself.

  • Masc Pride

    @SportGuy: I agree. The gay community desperately needs more guys like Sarafin and Sam to crush some of the stereotypical damage done by other types.

    @YouGoGurl: You’re spot-on with the low self-esteem diagnosis. Kiwi suffers from a reverse effemiphobia (Mascuphobia?) because of insecurities with his effeminacy.

    @Dxley: I think if these guys got “butthurt” more often, they’d probably be a lot less bitchy.

  • kyler09


    Calm down men, everyone as an opinion, you dont need to be so hateful in your speech, that wont help. If you want others to listen and maybe change their minds you have to be more polite. i may agree with the some things you say, namely, everyone should leave their lives and like whatever they want, but… you must respect that too.
    For some people it may be more important to see others that are in similar circumstances in life/or are more like them, come out. Thats what some people have been saying here.

  • Little-Kiwi

    @Masc Pride: and yet, you’re the one who can only make his comments from a place of cowardly anonymity.

    the irony? you want “more masc role models” , whatever the heck that means, then show that you yourself aren’t Man Enough to be one.

    “crush some of the stereotypical damage done by other types.”
    Exactly what I’ve been saying, the “damage” – meaning “masc4Masc” was made to feel bad about being gay by his shitty bigoted family. right. don’t blame the “stereotypical gays” for the fact that your parents didn’t love you, “masc”

    @kyler09: “For some people it may be more important to see others that are in similar circumstances in life/or are more like them, come out. Thats what some people have been saying here.”

    The irony – they say it from a place of invisible anonymity. meaning, they want someone else to do what they themselves aren’t strong and “masculine” enough to do. irony, eh?

    there’s a world of “guys like them” who are waiting for “guys like them” to come out, but most “guys like them” simply don’t have the balls to do it. so much for being real manly men, eh?

  • Little-Kiwi

    “you’re effeminate! look how masculine i am!” – say the anonymous wimps who can’t prove it. and never will be able to.

  • kyler09

    wow, you are on fire Little-Kiwi, i say again Calm down.
    i dont understand, whats the harm of people getting encouraged by others, whats it matter to you if their are out or not? are you upset because this player came out? i rly dont get your point here, im sorry.

  • Masc Pride

    @kyler09: No, let him keep on going. He’s every negative fem stereotype in the book. He actually validates the points of the very guys he hates so much just through being himself.

  • Little-Kiwi

    @kyler09: i can explain :D i think it’s great when ANYONE comes out. that’s all that needs to be said. another brother standing up to be counted.

    take a good look, Kyler09, at the comments the ironically named “masc pride” is making. that’s my point. the learned “fem-hatred” “”masc pride”” has, which he picked up from his anti-gay family.

    this story should have no caveats – this guy being Out is a good thing. it’s a good thing whenever any of us come out, what needs to be shut the fuck down, however, is the bullshit “masc pride” is saying. read it all, Kyler09, to understand what i’m getting at

    thing is, though, “masc pride” is saying the shit that only insecure anonymous closet-cases ever say. and only ever from a place of anonymity.

    if i’m “every negative fem stereotype in the book”, as the coward says, the logic would dictate that being ME is the best thing the gay community could ask for – as there are no anti-gay straight people in my life. my friends, my family – all outspoken visible LGBT Advocates and Allies. and if you click on my name you’ll be taken to my blog, where you can see us all.

    what kind of gay men hate gay men like me? gay men that were raised to think that Gays Like Me are lesser – but it’s not my fault that “masc pride” was raised by anti-gay assholes who don’t love him. and he’ll never prove me wrong, and he’ll never show any of you who is he. why?

    Same reason those horrible twitter-trolls were sending pics of dead robin williams to his daughter: troll culture. troll culture – where the insecure scum of the world can have a voice, through the anonymity of the internet – the last refuge of cowards.

    but yeah – if i’m every negative fem stereotype in the book then it’s worked brilliantly for me in life. which i document. regularly.

  • DarkZephyr

    @YouGoGurl: “YouGoGurl” sounds like a name made up just to take part in arguments like this.

    @lykeitiz: If that is not what was intended, then why is that what was said? Why was the term “real men” used at all? If masculine gay men are “real men”, what does that make non-masculine gay men? If its the coming out of masculine gay men that we should celebrate, how should we feel about the coming out of non-masculine gay men? Please do the math. Also, please pay very close attention to what Masc said. “@SportGuy: I agree. The gay community desperately needs more guys like Sarafin and Sam to crush some of the stereotypical damage done by other types.” I for one will be VERY interested to see if SportsGuy comes on and says “Hey! Wait a minute Masc! That’s not what I was trying to say!” I know that my initial post to him was a polite, non-aggressive question for clarity that was in no way a call for “war” that he chose to ignore. That choice spoke volumes to me. But I dunno, based on your replies to Kiwi I am wondering if you also understood what SportsGuy said to be exactly what Masc thought it was. Because there is one thing that cannot be denied. Masc and Kiwi BOTH understood SportsGuy’s meaning in the *exact same way*. One celebrates that meaning and is clapping SportsGuy on the back for it and one rightly speaks out against it.

    @kyler09: Gay men *should never* say things that amount to “its great that a masculine REAL man came out instead of another flamer!” THAT is the point and I have a hard time believing that you don’t actually understand that. Masc4Masc aka MascPride understood perfectly well what SportsGuy was saying, ever bit as well as Kiwi did and I for one am actually very glad that Masc said what he said to make this so clear. I am even more grateful for strong gay brothers like Kiwi who have the courage to stand up AGAINST this internal homophobia that exists within the gay male community where “Feminine” gay men are looked down on and treated like crap. Is this attitude one that you support? If not, why are you scolding Kiwi but letting comments like Masc’s and Dxley’s go by unchallenged?

  • Masc Pride

    Funny. Every time Kiwi works himself into a psychotic tizzy, the SAME member magically appears to back him up…but always wants to accuse somebody else of having alternate accounts. Hmmmm….

  • DickieJohnson

    I’m a 65-y/o, lifelong, gay man, and I’m beginning to really dislike Queens. All this back and forth bullsh!t is so juvenile. Just congratulate MR. Sarafin, and move on. B*tches.

  • NoCagada

    There sure are a lot of dick-hungry bitches on here and SportGuy isn’t one that I would necessarily point a dick at to prove my point

    I get the feeling that Little Kiwi is a nickname for what’s between his legs.

  • DarkZephyr

    @Masc Pride: *yawn* I am not surprised that you have said this. It has nothing to do with any point that I have made. Its just a red herring designed to insult and distract. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  • Saint Law

    I don’t know why posters like Little-Kiwi or DarkZephyr bother corresponding with the papier-macho imposters on here.

    You’re only giving them their jollies. This is more attention than they get anywhere else in their thwarted little lives.

  • Lvng1tor

    @Little-Kiwi: I’m gonna marry you…..or someone like you who will have to put up with me calling him “litte kiwi” and never knowing why.

  • Masc Pride

    @DarkZephyr: No, I genuinely find it rather interesting how you ALWAYS show up to attack the exact same people he’s obsesses over. The EXACT SAME ones! Very interesting. That’s all. Didn’t mean to wake you.

  • LadyL

    Wow, you guys. Can we all get along..?
    I absolutely do not want to sh*t-stir here. But can I say that reading all your remarks, it feels like almost everyone is so angry that maybe you’re not understanding each other?
    For the record, I’m an African-American lesbian. Generally I like Queerty, and appreciate being allowed to toss in my two cents now and again.
    I want to say that I really feel for my gay brothers. For all of you. There were and are gay men in my life that mean the world to me–an uncle who passed away a couple of years ago after a long, losing battle with alcoholism; my cousin, who is HIV+ and had to move away from his entire family and find a life for himself in NY just to be able to breathe, to be able to live his life without constant judgment and disapproval; and my sweet, sweet best friend forever, whom I’ve I’ve known since 3rd grade and who still struggles with the closet, especially on his job.

    These men are a part of me, as all of you are. I’ve grown up watching them fight for acceptance–familial acceptance, societal acceptance, self-acceptance–and through all that they have nurtured and counseled and sometimes consoled me as I have done (and continue to do) the same.

    I think of my men as I read these comments and feel like I can see both sides of this argument, at least as far as I think I understand what’s being argued.
    My cousin was bullied and ostracized from a very young age–called a sissy and worse. He had to contend with everyone around him knowing he was gay before he was old enough to know what the word meant. It wasn’t quite that bad for my BFF, but it was close; he too had to deal with the snickers, the insinuating remarks, the side-eye looks, and being made to feel different in a way that often made him feel small.

    And my uncle? Tough guy. The kind of man that could have “passed.” Not that that helped him much. His generation carried such stereotypical (and usually nonsensical) notions of what homosexuality looked and sounded like, and what it meant, that for years he stayed closeted and many people of his acquaintance had no idea about him. But he still had to deal with the inner conflict, the shame, and the constant fear of discovery. He tried very hard for a long time to be the man his church, his family and his friends assumed he was or insisted he be. And of course all that accomplished for him was frustration and terrible unhappiness, for him and for the women he involved himself with.

    In a world in which traditionally men have been raised to be–how do I put this?–the Gender That Matters?–the concept of masculinity has carried an enormous amount of freight. So maybe the problem continues to be how we define it–or how we allow others to continue to define us (that is, you). My uncle’s generational masculinity made it impossible for him to come out, until finally he met and fell in love with a much younger guy who could not and would not live a closeted life. They had a precious few happy years together until his lover died of complications from AIDS. Not too much longer after that my poor uncle, worn down from decades of self-loathing and self-medications, passed away.

    Meanwhile my cousin and my best friend soldier on, black gay men trying to live lives of meaning and integrity in a world that does not always wish to acknowledge or respect them.

    These are the men of my family–my tortured “masculine” uncle, my fierce, “femme” cousin, and my gentle, “somewhere in-between/not so easily defined,” dearest friend. In all the back and forth I sense the point that’s trying to be made here is that in this world there are all kinds of men (Including all kinds of straight men, btw–just how “masculine” are the straight guys you know?) and the world needs to know that reality.

    It is important, I think, that traditionally “masculine” men come out. For them, as much as for the culture at large. And we should be able to say that without it meaning that men who don’t fit that image are lesser beings whose lives don’t count or whose maleness doesn’t measure up. It’s significant that of the three men I’ve talked about here, it’s my cousin who is the activist, the most outspoken. Like the heroes of Stonewall he’d taken the worst sustained abuse and had finally had enough. My rugged, athletic uncle was able in his youth to stay under the radar, but at what cost?

    I don’t mean to presume to know what all of you have gone through in your lives–I get it that your experiences have not been mine. Just my thoughts on the subject.

  • DarkZephyr

    @Masc Pride: *Yawn*

    @LadyL: I would LOVE it if we could all get along. There is NO reason for the “Fem” shaming and Transphobia not to mention the ridiculous conflation of the two topics that goes on. Just no reason for it. Without it, things would be a LOT better around here.

  • Masc Pride

    @DarkZephyr: There’s no reason for the masc-shaming either. You guys get your catty little jabs in and then immediately resort to playing victim when the criticism returned. Go back to sleep.

  • Blackceo

    How the hell did such a positive story turn into such a clusterfuck??!!!! Congrats Chip and best of luck going forward!!!

  • Josh F

    Great job, Chip. You are a brilliant and talented young man and from what I’ve read a very decent human being.

  • Josh F

    @SportGuy: I think what you’re talking about is the ‘non-masculine’ athlete’s as in those that are in the Olympics, i.e. figure skaters, swimmers, etc. However, who are you to say what is or is not masculine? Do you know Chip personally? Do you know he’s a masculine man? I’m not saying one way or the other because I don’t know him, but you’re making an assumption that because he plays what is considered ‘a masculine’ sport that he must be masculine. I played baseball in high school, but was not considered masculine. My cousin is a football player at a state college and he is not considered masculine by the standards that the U.S. puts on masculinity. His team knew he was gay, but guess what, he kicks ass on the field. So, you are judging others by what you think, instead of who they are.

  • Andrew Yang

    @Little-Kiwi: At the risk of being attacked by you or someone else, I have to say that masculinity is not defined by revealing one’s identity. We have no idea what another’s circumstance is, so I think we should respect each other. We may be at different stages in the game and our lives, but we still identify as gay men, whether we do it on tv, with family, close friends or just online in chat forums. We are all in the struggle together, so let us stop attacking each other and points of views. We can disagree, which makes for great and educational conversations, but we do not have to attack each others’ character and lower ourselves.

  • Josh F

    @Blackceo: Because people have to make nasty comments, pretending they are being positive and when people call them on their bs, they get defensive and attack back. It’s a vicious cycle.

  • capsule

    How can this guy represent the gay professional athlete community when most people in the world don’t even know who he is.

  • onelove1976

    Seriously,I am glad that people are coming out of the closet! Its time that we get out of the so called dark ages and let people live their lives!

  • DarkZephyr

    @Masc Pride: Let’s get something straight here. I do not identify as “feminine” and I do not identify as “masculine”. I am simply me. How somebody else views or perceives me is their business, not mine but I certainly don’t need to hear about it.

    Secondly, there is no true “masc shaming” going on here. There is DOUCHE shaming maybe, but not “masc shaming”. USUALLY the only time you ever hear negative feedback from me is when you post something that I find to be hateful and bigoted in some way, and you are not the only person I have challenged at Queerty. I have no idea whether a person considers themselves masculine OR feminine unless they go on and on at length about it or as in your case, make a screen name reflecting their self-perceptions. Whether I think they could possibly be “masc” or “fem” is irrelevant. I will challenge a douche regardless. That is just how I am. Perhaps its a flaw, I know that I myself have gotten a little flack here at Queerty for it, but again, that is just how I am. And I will challenge a douche whether I see Kiwi doing it or not. I haven’t even known of Kiwi that long, but what I have seen so far I admire. I admit that freely. I think he has been through a LOT at the hands of fellow gay men that have treated him shamefully and instead of being broken and damaged he has come out strong. That is something that I find incredibly admirable.

    Whenever I have found you reasonable, I have never had trouble replying to you with respect and even agreement. I don’t have a problem with guys who self-identify as masculine. HAVE “Masc” pride. Own it, LOVE it, Live it, BE it. That is perfectly cool with me. Masculinity is a beautiful thing! WHAT I have a problem with is when YOU or Dxley or Litper or someone else is CRUEL about it and says especially mean things about or TO feminine gay men and or transwomen or talk about how “damaging” feminine gay men are to the cause of gay rights. It just doesn’t HAVE to be done. As others have pointed out, we are ALL in this together. Femininity is no less beautiful than masculinity is. They are each beautiful in their way. A homophobe that would call LittleKiwi a “fruit” will just as readily call *you* one as well if he knew that you were gay. The problem that they have with femininity really isn’t in the mannerisms of feminine gay men, though they will certainly attack that. What they HATE is that one man is willingly putting his penis inside the body of another man, and that other man is willingly accepting it. I don’t know what YOU do in bed with another men and I don’t WANT to know as its NONE of my business, but you certainly take part in activities that homophobes consider “faggy”, “fruity” and “fairy-like”. You are NO better than any feminine gay man and no feminine gay man is any better than YOU.

    Do you know what is damaging to the cause of gay rights? HOMOPHOBES. NOT feminine gay men and not our Trans* brothers and sisters. Its HOMOPHOBES. I suggest you turn your anger and rage at THEM instead of your siblings who are IN THIS FIGHT WITH YOU. And in fact probably more often than not get treated worse than you do if you really are so “masc”. In MY view a REAL Man, one who is truly and authentically masculine and ready to step up to the plate would not TOLERATE his brothers being trashed the way that feminine gay men get trashed. He would *have* their backs rather than KICK their backs. And the feminine gay men would have HIS back as well. I think we should ALL have each others backs. There are too many people against us as it is. We shouldn’t self cannibalize.

  • john.k

    I think LadyL’s post was excellent. When I was trying to come out nearly 40 years ago I had the impression that all gay men were effeminate and limp-wristed or flaming queens. I did not identify with that image. I remember my relief on finding, when I first went into a gay night club, that most of the men there were not like that. Surprisingly, given the greater visibility of gay men today, I think there are still young gay men and teens, particularly the “sporty” type, who think that the old stereotypes are real. When prominent athletes come out it shows such guys that gays encompass all types – sporty, non-sporty, fat, thin, young, old, camp, non-camp etc.

  • Lou773

    I am a sports freak so I love when every lgbt comes out. It’s not important if Chip is super-macho or super-fem. It’s important the he comes out as gay in a sport that is stereotypically straight due to it’s inherent violence aka maleness.

    I think it will be funny when some super-burly, super-nelly queen comes out in NCAA football. I want him to be like, “I’m a hairy bear who watches Rupaul, has a Hello Kitty wallet, and knits on the weekend, that will knock your ass out when I tackle you. So don’t come for for me bitches!”

    It’s not femme or foe. We come in all shades of femme to macho to femme. We just need to be out!

  • lykeitiz

    @DarkZephyr: I never once used the term “real men”, and I have stated quite plainly the exact opposite of what you’re accusing me of.

    @LadyL: entered into the conversation with a thoughtful & touching story, and yet she gets 3 sentences from you, not the novel-length rant that I and others have received.

    You and @Little-Kiwi: both twisted my words, accused me of having an opinion that I KNOW I don’t have, and yet you’re both silent with someone like LadyL. Obviously, having an intelligent conversation wouldn’t serve your “Real Housewives” mentalities of drama for the sake of drama.

    Sit down, shut up, and let the big people talk.

  • tdh1980

    The problem with this “masc” over “fem” attitude that so many of you have is that it puts the responsibility for straight people’s homophobia on those who are the victims of it. When you say that greater acceptance will come our way when the “fems” stop being so faggoty and the “mascs” become more visible, what you’re actually saying is that it’s “effeminate” gay men’s fault that homophobic straight people hate us in the first place, which simply isn’t true. Homophobes hate us because they’re hateful douchetards. Period. Victim blaming doesn’t explain away the “-phobia” or “-ism.” There are women who keep every part of their bodies covered who are still raped and people of color who do every single thing the cops say when stopped who are still unjustly killed. How do you explain that? When Michael Sam, “masc” hero to several of you, kissed his boyfriend on the air after being drafted, my grandmother and uncle were still repulsed. You know why? Because he’s still gay, and that’s the only thing that matters to haters.

  • DarkZephyr

    @lykeitiz: 1) I responded directly to LadyL, I did NOT remain “silent” in the face of her words.

    2) Wow, aren’t you touchy? Why don’t you go back and actually read each of my posts that directly addressed you, which where what, a grand total of 2? I didn’t “accuse” you of one single f**king thing or “twist” your words and never once did I say that YOU used the term “real men”. SportsGuy DID and I asked YOU if you agreed with it, I was trying to find out FROM you what you actually felt about those words. Those were SportsGuy’s words (which Masc interpreted the exact same way that I and several others did), YOU rushed in to defend those words even though NOBODY had addressed you. NOBODY. I then broke down what he said to allow you to understand where I was coming from because you said “I don’t think that was was what was intended” when he damn well DID use the words “real masculine men” so clearly he INTENDED the, those were his *exact* words for God’s sake. It was YOU who inserted yourself into the conversation defending his words, so DON’T pretend like you were sweetly and innocently minding your own business and then I came at you viciously from out of left field waving my arms like a crazed beast. I was never ONCE impolite or rude to you, I did NOT call you names and I *certainly* didn’t try to silence you in any way including a la “Sit down, shut up, and let the big people talk.” I simply engaged you in a conversation and apparently you could in *no way* handle that. So maybe its YOU who should sit down and shut up and let the big people talk, because you are nowhere *close* to being mature enough to politely handle a civil dialogue with someone you don’t agree with who was NOT impolite or uncivil to you.

    @john.k: “When I was trying to come out nearly 40 years ago I had the impression that all gay men were effeminate and limp-wristed or flaming queens.”

    I *really* hope that

  • DarkZephyr

    @john.k: “When I was trying to come out nearly 40 years ago I had the impression that all gay men were effeminate and limp-wristed or flaming queens.”

    I *really* hope that in the ensuing years you ALSO learned that terms like “effeminate and limp-wristed or flaming queens” for your less masculine brothers is NOT cool.

    Can you tell me where you GOT those hurtful words from in the first place, if those were your fears all those years ago? Who put them in your head? Because by now I am sure that you see that the villains in this equation are NOT our “fem” brothers but the bastards who would have made us afraid to be associated with them, right? Its the homophobes that are the monstrous enemies, not our “fem” or “queeny” or as you also seem to like to say, “campy” brothers.

  • DarkZephyr

    @tdh1980: *Thunderous applause* YOU Sir, spoke the TRUTH.

  • Cam

    All the people worried because straight people might not think gays are masculine.

    Um, Grow a set why don’t you.

    1. Who gives a sh*t

    2. I suppose the photos of the Marines and other service folks kissing weren’t masculine enough for you?

  • john.k

    @DarkZephyr: Gosh, you really have to be careful what you say here, don’t you? It’s like walking on eggshells. The world I came out into, especially here in Ireland, was very different to the one we now inhabit. The only images one saw of gay men were some rather camp and, yes, limp-wristed characters on television. A colleague at work, who very bravely for the time, was an out gay man was often referred to as a “flamer” because of his exaggerated behaviour and way of dressing. He was in fact quite funny in the things he said and the way he said them. My first gay friend regularly called me a “queen”. I didn’t like it but I didn’t take offence because I knew none was intended.

    A few years ago there was a TV programme here in Ireland focusing on four young gay men and their families. I yield to no one in my admiration for those young men and their families in appearing on the programme. None the less I have to admit to grinding my teeth when the mother of one of them said that she had guessed her son was gay “because he showed no interest in sport”. I’m sure she didn’t intend it but that statement conformed to an unfortunate stereotype.

    I have a friend who plays soccer for our local gay team. He’s now 36 but only came out 2 years ago. He told me of his struggles with his sexual identity. One of the factors that caused him difficulty was that he saw himself as a sportsman but knew of no gay sportsmen. The coming out of a very prominent Irish sportsman helped him to come to terms with his own sexuality

    When the press and television cover the annual gay pride parade they invariably focus on the drag queens and the leathermen. The insecure young gay guy may see them and think that all gays are like that. He doesn’t see the thousands of ordinary gay men an women walking behind or the gay rugby team or soccer team.

    So I think prominent gay athletes coming out is a very positive thing. Of course it is great for the athletes themselves too as they can be themselves and don’t have to pretend to be something else.

  • Kidomega123

    In case we haven’t figured it out: Sport Guy, Masc Pride, Masc4Masc, Lipter, and probably a few other screen names I’m forgetting, are the same guy. He trolls Queerty’s comments section and leaves inflammatory comments on every positive article. It’s the same song and dance every day. Dont feed the troll.

  • ChiChi Man

    @Blackceo: Thank you. I came on here to read congratulatory comments and instead it’s a bunch of juvenile crap. Guys, get over yourselves.

    Chip, congratulations! The more men and women who come out, the better and safer the world will be.

  • Tackle

    @Kidomega123: Yes. And don’t forget @michael mellor: and @Dxley: I and other posters have pointed this out. And the main ones responding to them know about this because they have mentioned this.

    The ones who took what should have been a positive story down sh!t alley are the ones who kept responding to the known troll. He’s gonna be whose he’s gonna be. Just someone you cannot reason with, and who loves and is energized by the attention. So why give it to him?

    You would think that grown men, 30s 40s would know better and be more mature. But when someone takes time to write a 100 /200 page post to a known troll, it shows a deep pathology on their part, and they have just as many issues as the troll…

  • DarkZephyr

    Tackle is playing like he has never gotten into big back and forth arguments on before. MMMMKay.

  • Masc Pride

    @john.k: Don’t pay it too much attention. Anyone who refuses to walk on eggshells is a self-loathing “closet case” in their irrational book. There are really only a few of them. They’re just VERY persistent.

    I’m looking forward to more athletes coming out as well. It’s great to finally see more representation that doesn’t present us all as gender-confused. It’s also helpful for more masculine guys like yourself who won’t have to toil over coming out and being misunderstood the same way you explained.

    @DarkZephyr: 1. You’ve NEVER replied to me in a civil or friendly manner. Your original problem was with my masc4masc screen name. I actually noticed that several guys seemed very hurt by my s/n, which is why I switched to Masc Pride. My names are based on refusing to be masc-shamed (which there IS a lot of), not trying to hurt the hypersensitive. I’ve never gone on about how masculine I am. Please find and post any examples of me supposedly doing so (though given your track record of not being able to back up your accusations, I already know you won’t).

    2. I never really said anything negative about all fems. Whenever you don’t like my opinion on ONE particular story or person, you choose to process it as
    me disparaging a whole demographic (i.e. when you took what I said about Whoopi Goldberg and tried to present that as me saying “all black women are ugly”). You’re a very sensitive, dramatic and sometimes dishonest person who frequently makes mountains out of molehills.

    3. Stop trying to make Kiwi a victim. He introduces himself by personally attacking people, so he’s more than deserving of anything he gets called in return. Like I said before, you guys throw as many stones as you please, but if one gets thrown back, you guys go straight into victim mode. Respect begets respect.

    BTW LMAO @ Tacky trying to act like he’s above going back and forth on Queerty. That is beyond RICH! :P

  • Andrew Yang

    @john.k: Well said my friend!

  • lykeitiz

    @Masc Pride: Regarding your #2 to @DarkZephyr – Thank God. I thought it was just me. And you’re spot-on w/#3 too!

  • enlightenone

    @Little-Kiwi: An intelligent MAN who has been “out” in the room! Their’s nothing “little” about you!TOUCHDOWN!!!!!

  • enlightenone

    @SportGuy: “Wars!” Really? Defensive already; the comments just got started! You’re safe beyond this social media platform. Allow yourself to be open to taking in other perspectives that potentially allow for personal growth. Insight is real power!!!!

  • enlightenone

    @Little-Kiwi: Sounds like something Jesus would have said!

  • enlightenone

    @nowliveit: Michael Sam is very much an intelligent “bear!” This gentleman would be considered an intellectual “bear.”

  • enlightenone

    @lykeitiz: I’m not SportGuy, but NO, you are not “close.” Not by a mile!

  • enlightenone

    @tdh1980: Amen, amen, amen. You better preach! “It’s getting hot in herre.” What the hell… “You better work!”

  • enlightenone

    @LadyL: Your wisdom is most welcomed and appreciated. Thank you!

  • enlightenone

    @DarkZephyr: Touche!

  • DarkZephyr

    @Masc Pride: I didn’t say that *YOU* go on about how masculine you are. What I actually said was the following: “I have no idea whether a person considers themselves masculine OR feminine unless they go on and on at length about it or as in your case, make a screen name reflecting their self-perceptions.” This was in response to the whole “masc shaming” thing.

    “1. You’ve NEVER replied to me in a civil or friendly manner.”


    While others thought you might be r*cist for having certain preferences I gave you the benefit of the doubt (this was before the whole “ogress” thing) and was VERY polite and supportive of your words. I didn’t think that they were being very reasonable to you and you and I actually had a very cordial, agreeable if not massively chummy conversation. I guess you have selective memory. And about the Whoopi Goldberg ogress comment. You weren’t JUST referencing Whoopi Goldberg, it was under an article about a black Latina for goodness sake, you were calling HER an “Ogress” *like* Whoopi Goldberg and scoffed at her claims of being Latina. Your ogress comment was preceded by a list of famous stereotypically beautiful, light skinned Latinas (one of whom is even a white Latina) that you thought most people associated with the term “Latina”. Do you not remember this?

    Your claims of my “dishonesty” stem from my mistaken claim that you had called people the “F” word on here, and you persist in that claim despite my admission that I was probably wrong. This was not dishonest, but an error on my part, though I am feeling less and less apologetic about it as time goes on.

    “2. I never really said anything negative about all fems.”

    Perhaps, but that has nothing to do with any of this. You say negative things about quite enough of them and a few comments up have basically admitted that you think that they have caused “damage” to the Gay Rights movement and elsewhere you have made it abundantly clear that you “steer clear” of “fems” in general. I really think that you have powerful selective memory.

    “Respect begets respect.”

    Who are you respectful to at exactly other than anyone who is agreeing with you at any given time? I think anyone who reads your conduct under the Transgender related articles will see quite clearly that you are generally NOT a very respectful man.

    One of your problems is that you are MORE than willing to point out the flaws and mistakes of others but you never want to take ANY responsibility for your own. Why should anyone respect that?

  • DarkZephyr

    @lykeitiz: For all your denials that you have a negative concept about so called feminine gay men, you sure are going OUT of your way to back those that are very anti-“fem” and to be a fat douche to those who stick up for our feminine gay brothers. You refuse to answer the points I made to you about your sensitivity and the ACTUAL nature of our initial exchange. Now you chat about me with others without addressing me, something I have not done to you and is EXTREMELY rude. This coupled with the *extremely* unpopular camp that you have chosen to align yourself with speaks volumes about you and your true character. I made an honest attempt to converse with you, but you have chosen to react in a very hostile, immature way and have CLEARLY chosen to single me out as an enemy when this was not necessary for you to do. Understand that I am *not* the only one who is forming a negative opinion of you (this was just cemented by your ridiculously absurd words to Masc about me btw). I am *not* going to be playing your cheap and pathetic games. You may join your new best friend Litper the Woman Hater and consider yourself dismissed. You are clearly very unworthy of the benefit of the doubt that I was giving you (and pretty much just an unworthy human being in general) and you have just become irrelevant. Do not bother ever trying to address me or respond to me again. It will be a waste of your time. You no longer exist.

  • AtticusBennett

    a fun game for every comments section, on any site, ever:

    the “i’m so masculine, i just don’t like those fems” commenters: prove you are what you want us to think you are. show yourself. URL. blogspot. youtube page. instagram account.

    i’ll give you the answer in advance: they will never do it. there are some things that are the exclusive domain of Wimpy Internet Trolls, and making false boastful claims from a place of complete anonymity is right up there.

    there is no such thing as “masc-shaming” – that’s what butthurt delusional boys say when they’re really just upset that nobody believes the lies they type on the internet.

    So. there you have it. next time some anonyous dolt goes off on his learned disdain for perceived “effeminacy” – ask him to show himself. he won’t be able to. ever. there are some stances only ever held by cowards.

  • Masc Pride

    Since there’s no masc-shaming going on, there’s no fem-shaming going on either.

    @DarkZephyr: While I really don’t care who may think I’m a [email protected], I do mind being quoted out of context. I’ve never even alluded to even half the stuff you accuse me of saying. I can’t control how you process what you read, but please stop manipulating my words to prove your points. You consistently attack me for the words YOU put in my mouth.

    I’ve been respectful to those that have been respectful to me. You’re obviously STILL very salty over the conversations I had with Corva (soooooooo looooooong ago). Corva did not disagree with me in a respectful manner, so I did not disagree with him in a respectful manner. He also refused to just agree to disagree. You guys have to learn that you can’t control what others think. I don’t personally attack anyone unless they’ve done so to me first. You’ve said some pretty negative things to me too, so this melodramatic ‘we all need to have each others backs’ is bullshit, and you know it.

  • AtticusBennett

    @Masc Pride: ” The gay community desperately needs more guys like Sarafin and Sam to crush some of the stereotypical damage done by other types.:

    proved you wrong. you poor pitiful creature. quick, switch to another anonymous screen name and make another comment – we all know the truth: you’re an insecure boy who never got over being a disappointment to daddy. and you’ll never be man enough to show yourself, or even attempt to prove me wrong, because you know i’m right. and that’s sad. thing is, many other gay men ( a GREAT man) were also raised by crap antigay parents; you should learn from them how to forge your own identity so you can do something with your life other that daily anonymous trolling. sure, it’s a distraction from your own current sad reality, but it’s not a real solution.
    in short – for once in your life, grow some balls.

  • DarkZephyr

    @Masc Pride: And once again there you go pointing fingers, while accepting NO personal responsibility whatsoever. You weren’t quoted out of context.

    And how shocking. You continue to call a transwoman “he” when you KNOW that is not what she wants. I find it VERY interesting that you refuse to call a Transgender woman “she”, but seem to find it very easy to call a gender-non-conforming gay man “she” when that is NOT how he identifies.

    Nobody buys your “innocent me” act Masc.

  • Masc Pride

    @DarkZephyr: You did quote me out of context. That woman happens to look like Goldberg, who happens to look like Shrek. The article was about congressmen who were challenging her ethnicity, to which I was simply stating most people don’t think of women that look like Whoopi Goldberg when they think of Latinas. Like I said, I really don’t mind being called [email protected], but please stop exaggerating what was actually said.

    Corva called me a few things I didn’t appreciate either, so he’s another one that got just what he was dishing out. People in glass houses….

  • lykeitiz

    @DarkZephyr: Oh, I’ll address you directly, and then you’ll most likely twist my words like you have before.

    This is copied and pasted from my post on this very thread: Not even all gay people can accept that there’s no difference between our “straight acting” and our “effeminate” brothers & sisters

    But go ahead…..twist my words again. Just don’t expect me to have a civil conversation with you when you lie to push your own agenda…….seeking attention.

  • AtticusBennett

    @lykeitiz: your decision to harp on Zephyr and ignore the ongoing self-hating homophobic fem-phobic comments of “masc pride” (and his various aliases) is rather telling…..

    “masc pride” (he’s neither masc, nor proud, btw – he’s a closeted wimp with no balls) said (and this is a direct quote) “” The gay community desperately needs more guys like Sarafin and Sam to crush some of the stereotypical damage done by other types””

    now – address that or prove yourself the very same kind of worthless coward. or the same person :D

  • lykeitiz

    @AtticusBennett: Um, Troll…..who was talking to you? Need attention much?

    Sad that you lack reading comprehension skills, so let me dumb it down for you. As I plainly stated….I do NOT feel that fem gays are in any way inferior to masc gays. If anything, quite the opposite. They’ve had the harder road to travel in many cases.

    I have NEVER picked my friends OR my lovers/romances/flings/dirty tricks based on fem vs masc traits.

    And furthermore, the only thing I find more vile than a hetero making fun of a fem gay is a gay person doing it.

    Now please run along & go twist someone else’s thoughts to satisfy your internet bullying needs.

  • enlightenone

    @lykeitiz: Early on in this “discussion,” I said, “you weren’t even close.” I went back to your comment as to why I said that and would like to have you and the rest of us who are willing to define “masculine?” In all due respect, at least on this thread, I don’t see where you suggested “fem” gays are in any way inferior to “masc” gays!

    I am particularly curious since I can’t think of any male athlete today who is not masculine no matter the sport other than figure skater Johnny Weir, and to a lesser degree Tom Daly (familiar given Queerty’s obsession). I do agree that yours and a few others argument that young male athletes need more “out” athletes they can relate. Although for me, I see as somewhat concerning, since, from my perspective, it shouldn’t be about “masculinity” so much (again given who it is perceived or defined), but rather the STRENGTH, “HEART,” DETERMINATION, SKILL, ADVERSITY, AND ACHIEVEMENT of an athlete that should be what they RELATE.

  • AtticusBennett

    @enlightenone: BINGO.

    “Although for me, I see as somewhat concerning, since, from my perspective, it shouldn’t be about “masculinity” so much (again given who it is perceived or defined), but rather the STRENGTH, “HEART,” DETERMINATION, SKILL, ADVERSITY, AND ACHIEVEMENT of an athlete that should be what they RELATE”

    E X A C T L Y.

    if you’re so “masculine” then BE THAT VISIBLE ROLE MODEL.

    the irony that these self-professsed “masc gays” are all anonymous closeted internet liars is hilarious.

  • john.k

    Hmmm….. as someone who reads gay forums here in Ireland – you get the odd occasion when posters get bitchy towards one another but nothing on the scale of what I see here.

    What hope for civil discourse in the USA??

  • lykeitiz

    @enlightenone: Thank you for taking the time to re-read my posts and discern what I said and what I DIDN’T say. Unfortunately, I have a couple internet trolls who continue to attack me based on what OTHERS I have been in conversations with have said.

    I normally don’t engage in this nonsense, and even though most identities here are anonymous, I still won’t stand by and have my opinions/feelings lied about and ranted on & on about.

    In fact, one of my trolls chose to respond to you rather than me, because he knows the proof is in his posts.

    Regarding what you said, of course the traits you mentioned ABSOLUTELY should be the traits that are admired & emulated, and I never tried to imply otherwise. The point I was trying to make was a completely different one.

    So, like I said, thank you for re-reading my words.

  • ChgoReason

    Honestly [email protected] are embarrassing to be around. Who really wants to deal with the excessive drama, the flamboyancy, the disapproval? If drag queens could project who they choose to identify with, why can’t masc. guys?

  • AtticusBennett

    @ChgoReason: why? because your shitty parents made fun of them and you never grew the balls to stand up to your shitty parents?

    what disapproval? the disapproval you get from your shitty parents because the only way they tolerate you is if you put on some faux-macho posturing? in short: stop being mad at drag queens and “flamboyant gays” – it’s not their fault that your shitty parents are ashamed to have you for a son.

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