Camp Boomerang, the new gay men-oriented camp near Orleans, Michigan, has come under fire for discrimination…and it hasn’t even opened yet. Owners of the camp declared on social media that transgender men will not be allowed on the campground.
“Camp Boomerang is a private, membership-only RV park/campground that allows only ‘guys,’” said Bryan Quinn, owner of Camp Boomerang in a Facebook post, according to PrideSource. “A ‘guy,’ in terms of this discussion, is defined as a person with a penis, [who] presents himself as male and has a state-issued ID that says ‘male.’”
“We understand this statement, unfortunately, may not make everyone happy, but feel it needs to be clarified,” Quinn continued. “It is our hope that everyone who visits Camp Boomerang enjoys a comfortable, safe, non-confrontational environment going forward. Being a ‘private membership only’ entity allows us the ability to build a like-minded atmosphere. We don’t mean for this to come off as a ‘like it or leave it’ attitude, but we feel it’s necessary for everyone to know exactly what our vision is for Camp Boomerang.”
Related: RuPaul Blasted For Transphobia By The Advocate; Not Everyone Agrees
Needless to say, the odd declaration invited immediate online backlash, prompting more comments from Quinn.
“Let’s be real here,” Quinn added in one comment. “If we let women that act like men in, and they go naked at the pool, that’s when it’s obvious that there’s no penis. Sorry to put it bluntly. But if you don’t like the rules, quietly leave.”
Quinn’s comments have not placated angry campers, who interpret the Camp Boomering policy as transphobic.
“Any type of policy that would require someone to prove their gender identity is counterproductive to advancing LGBTQ rights and divides our community,” Executive Director Brayden Misiolek of Transcend The Binary said of the ID policies. “As someone who lives with dysphoria, this news is very dehumanizing. Any kind of discriminatory policies like this erase us as a community. It invalidates our lived experiences and perpetuates narratives of illegitimacy, which can and does lead to harm for trans and non-binary people.”
At the time of this writing, it appears the Facebook pages for Camp Boomerang have been taken offline. The campground has also received negative reviews on Google, awarding it only 2.1 stars.
In 2018, a London bathhouse came under similar scrutiny for not allowing transgender men to use their facilities.
GentlemanCaller
I absolutely support trans inclusion. That said, I also support my right not to be exposed to vaginas when I’m at a clothing-optional resort targeted to gay men. I totally understand that that’s problematic and even hurtful to trans men, but I have not idea what a better solution would be. To demand that men with vaginas be included at this camp is a small, non-slippery slope away from requiring that women be admitted as well. And no, it’s not the same as saying “no Black men” or “no femme men” or any of the other analogies we’ll hear in the comments; we’re talking about a sex venue for men who are attracted to penises.
ggontarek
If religion can say who can be in it and who can’t be in that religion – don’t see a problem with this.
pride777
You mean like straight peoples right not to be exposed to homosexuals?
ShiningSex
your comment is still stupid. not all transmen have vaginas still for one.
There are gay men who are involved with transmen too. Your comment is still ignorant.
If vagina is that gross to you, then stick to grindr to be more specific and hook up at your local park.
bbg372
It is not transphobic for people with male bodies who are attracted to people with male bodies to not have sex with people with female bodies. It is actually homophobic to insist that they do.
Robothedestroyer
Not be exposed to vaginas… good lord dude are you 12?
Chipster
GentlemanCaller said:
I absolutely support trans inclusion. That said, I also support my right not to be exposed to vaginas when I’m at a clothing-optional resort targeted to gay men.
That’s a lame, NIMBY (Not in my back yard!) commend if I’ve ever seen one.
And for the rest of you who support this stupidity? I think you should seek counseling for your vagina-phobia!
ANYONE who has attended REAL clothing-optional resorts should know that this man (the RV park owner) is an ignorant novice. Clothing-optional “societies” are mature enough to separate nudity from sex, and so seeing a nude woman (or trans-man) is neither shocking nor “attention-grabbing”…
If your sole purpose to starting this park is to watch dicks swing, to the exclusion of all else, I hope you didn’t buy too much land…
I personally think he (the new RV park owner) will learn 2 hard lessons here:
1) When you’re starting a new business, it’s not a good idea to focus on who you DON’T want to serve, and
2) While you’re perfectly free to express your personal beliefs through your company, don’t mistake your RIGHT to do so with it being a good BUSINESS practice! (Case-in-point: Chick-Fil-A is still stinging from their COO’s anti-LGBTQ statements now SEVERAL years ago!)
Den
“I personally think he (the new RV park owner) will learn 2 hard lessons here:
1) When you’re starting a new business, it’s not a good idea to focus on who you DON’T want to serve, and
2) While you’re perfectly free to express your personal beliefs through your company, don’t mistake your RIGHT to do so with it being a good BUSINESS practice! (Case-in-point: Chick-Fil-A is still stinging from their COO’s anti-LGBTQ statements now SEVERAL years ago!)”
Yes, most nudist resorts have nothing to do with sex, and frown on pubic sexual display or display of arousal, this place is obviously different. Seems that just as Gay Male Nudist events are little more than sex parties with pot luck buffets, this place will be as much private sex club as RV park.
I suspect they will do great business, as there is no shortage of gay male RV owners who will make it a stop on their travels. There are many more important social and political struggles for LGBT to devote their energy to than access to an RV sex club!
resl
And many straight people think they don’t want to be exposed to gay PDA or effeminate gays with a high-pitched uptalking gay voice.
How different are you from them? It’s okay if you say it about trans men with vaginas but not okay if straight people say it about YOU?
And you think you can get away with sounding misogynistic and transphobic because you’re gay?
solanum
Yikes…The way some gay men act about other gay men/non-binary peoples bodies is disgusting…it’s a nudist retreat for gay men so allow all gay men (regardless of genitals). Y’all act as if the presence of a vagina is going to emotionally scar and traumatize y’all…
ShiningSex
EXACTLY!!! Some gay men are idiots.
GreekKeys
There’s no such thing as non-binary. Otherwise you wouldn’t have to trans…, would you?
Liz_B_Anne
What don’t you understand about “gay” “male” retreat? If it was open to everyone it would just be a regular nudist colony, lol. If they were attracted to vaginas they wouldn’t be, you know, GAY MEN.
This rapey, entitled mindset needs to die. Like yesterday. If you don’t like the rules, don’t go. Make your own camp with different rules. Stop trying to push your way into LGB and women’s hard-won spaces and GET. YOUR. OWN.
resl
Technically straight men pretending to be masculine gays can sneak in and rape a transman with a vagina??
It’s pretty gruesome but there are perves around and you never know what sick ideas some of those may come up with.
ShiningSex
Transmen are MEN!!!! Anyone that says otherwise are just scumbags. Anyone who visit this pathetic excuse for a “Camp” is a moron too. So the camp is a place for only f*cking? That seems to be the complaint that gay men are just looking for sex and wouldn’t want to be around transmen. Pathetic! Hope they close down!!!
GreekKeys
Prove how “transmen” are men. Explain it to someone who can prove they’re not. Exp;lain it to someone who thinks it’s a religion that no one can be forced to believe. Not with name calling and victimhood rage. By not using the words “scumbags”, “pathetic” or “moron”. Explain it. Like an adult.
Grifxx
It’s like Trans men and Trans women can’t understand that:
HOMOSEXUALITY EXIST.
That means men who are biologically Male are orientated emotionally, psychologically, mentally, romantically, physically and sexually to other men who are biologically Male who share this INNATE SEXUAL ORIENTATION.
Queer Theory and innate Gender Identity can’t override innate Sexual Orientations.
The 1st Amendment is all about freedom of speech and free association.
And before you start up with “This just like Black Jim Crow segregation”
No it’s not. As a Black person, I can assert this.
This is a simple sexuality math equation: Biological Males who have innate Same Sex sexual orientations, have created a membership only space that excludes Uterus Havers who are opposite sex.
They are legally empowered to do this because of 1st Amendment Rights.
missvamp
the level of transphobia is deplorable. from people who have experienced discrimination their whole lives- just sad. all of you who commented negatively should be ashamed.
inbama
Clearly, our Alphabet Soup Movement is ready to have a giant identity crisis.
mlo88
Shining you need to check yourself! Spewing hateful insulting remarks and then trying to claim you are coming from a place of inclusion is laughable. You come across as narcissistic, hostile, and extremely self entitled. Just because someone doesn’t share your view point doesn’t give you the right to attack them.,
LumpyPillows
Trans men are trans men. Nothing wrong with being a trans man, but you are what you are and you aren’t what you aren’t. Personally, I would not mind trans men being at a place like this, but it isn’t my business.
T-7
You must have been drunk or high during Biology 101. You can IMAGINE you’re a different sex all you want, but you will not convince any sane, educated person of this. Why LGB people allowed the mentally ill under our umbrella is beyond me. No, your vagina is not a “lady dick.” It’s a vagina. You can butcher your body all you want but having a sausage roll made from your thigh and attached between your legs is NOT a penis. Trying to force yourself into gay men and lesbian spaces is how you lose support. We have this thing in America called “freedom of association.” Gay people have a right to associate without the invasion of females and vice versa. If you don’t like it, create your own campground.
Guapulo
“So the camp is a place for only f*cking? That seems to be the complaint that gay men are just looking for sex…”
And so what if it is? It’s curious how trans advocates are now resorting to puritanism to justify their intrusive agenda.
alex1435
Prejudice and bigotry, I wouldn’t want to be apart of this place.
ShiningSex
Same here. I don’t want to be around ignorant men of any kind.
GreekKeys
No one would want your tired woke ass around, either, so that works out for everyone, right?
T-7
I have a strong feeling your presence wouldn’t be wanted. You sound like a miserable creature.
ingyaom
You could also describe this camp as “heterophobic”, so why not allow them to be “transphobic” as well? Just call it what it is – a “d!¢k camp”.
twomen4u
As a 75 year old gay male I happen to agree with the camp rules. I do not want to go somewhere out in the open and see a non-penis person nor do I want to see tits. If you have had the surgery then I am sure you will have the proper documents to prove you are male. I, personally, do not accept men running around in makeup and dresses and saying they are transgendered. You have to cut it off guys and stop fooling yourselves. I know this will draw a lot of fire but I am old and ornery so I can say what I please and the rest be damned. When I divorced I gave all of that up gladly. I know my body at my age sags and stretches in the wrong places and that could be offensive to some but it is all I have and will have, body beautiful I am not.
As I live in FL I had a membership at a gay nude campground that did not allow women or fake women. When you were there it was a welcome change to not wear clothes. We live as a nudists at home and everyone knows that when they come, we will be naked. I put up an eight foot vinyl fence around my backyard for total privacy. If I want to go out naked and believe me I do, I will go out the same way I was born.
Re-read the rules, this is a private camp by membership only, so if you do not want to follow the rules, then don’t join but do not ruin this for everyone else. Stop thinking about yourself and how you are offended. I do not like the “Q” that is in LGBT as I was called “queer” growing up and I think some other letter should have been used. But that is my PERSONAL opinion and it is not going to change.
In our diverse community there is room for everyone but not at the cost of taking away someone elses freedom.
I wish we were close enough to go to this camp but alas it is a bit far and my husband has an allergy to skeeters. I keep telling him he is going to get bitten in the wrong place, it will swell but I will get the benefit – ha.
Monkey1
I agree. These days people get all bent out of shape over nothing. It’s a private club and they can make the rules. Instead of the complainers demanding the rules change, they can open a different campground with different rules.
Cam
You can say whatever you want, the camp can say whatever they want.
And guess what. People are free to respond to that however they want.
T-7
Ummm, just because a female chops off her breasts and has a piece of flesh made from her thigh doesn’t make her a male.
Res1
It’s a GAY camp, not transgender and all inclusive.
Mike Hunt
It is a private business and they can have whatever rules they want. I applaud this. I am a gay male with a dingdong and I want to be around other males with dingdongs, simple as that. It is not exclusionary to have a sacrosanct male business or campground or playspace. Men dressing as females and calling themselves women … fine, just not around me. No need for vagina (and tits) in my life. Don’t want to see it, smell it, taste it or feel it. Nothing like a swimming pool full of naked men and their dicks! Good luck to the guys who are trying to get this business in Michigan off the ground. I’ll visit soon!
Cam
You said “It is not exclusionary to have a sacrosanct male business or campground or playspace.”.
Did the definition of exclusionary recently change?
GreekKeys
Did the definition of “male” change? Going down the definition route is not your friend.
Cam
@GreekKeys
Actually we can go down that route. Whether you’re for it or against it, unless you allow everybody in, technically the camp is “Exclusionary”.
The weird thing is, you’re so wrapped up in your head that you’re trying to argue with the dictionary.
T-7
Exactly! Why don’t they open their own damn campground if they don’t like it? Oh that’s right….because even trans people are not attracted to trans people. That’s why they insist on invading everyone else’s spaces.
T-7
Your description makes me want to make a reservation ASAP! 🙂
Cam
I don’t get the issue. If you are a guy who is into guys d*cks then nobody is forcing you to hookup with whatever trans guys are at this place.
If you don’t like them, don’t sleep with them, but I’m not really sure how it causes any issues.
Liz_B_Anne
The entire vibe changes when someone of another sex enters the group, especially if you’re there expecting to only see others of your sex. As a lesbian who has been nude at a party around a transwoman with a penis, I can tell you this definitively. It catches you off guard and is not a great feeling. There may be trauma attached that others know nothing about so it’s not cool to make assumptions.
Even if you’re not there for sex you probably don’t want to see opposite-sex genitals when you’re at a gay-specific event. Regardless, gay people should still reserve the right to congregate away from opposite-sex people if they choose. Trans people can certainly do the same on private land if they like–nobody’s stopping them from banning cis gay males or whatever.
But it seems they don’t want to do the work of creating their own trans-specific events, sports leagues, rape crisis centers or other things that LGB people and women have fought so hard for–they want to push their way into ours at all costs. That’s the problem.
justyouandi
You are missing GentlemanCaller’s main point: To demand that men with vaginas be included at this camp is a small, non-slippery slope away from requiring that women be admitted as well.
He is absolutely right! Here in LA hetero women began showing up at gay men’s bars and got offended when they saw gay men doing what gay men do in their bars, complained to management, then to social media, then to the police. One bar was permanently shut down, another endured a very expensive lawsuit, and the others have had to comply and are not much fun any more. Factor in that where hetero women go hetero men will follow and the gay guys are left with no place to call their own.
If this story were reversed I’m pretty sure lesbian women wouldn’t want to see penises at their gatherings, and I wouldn’t blame them. You can count on a girl who calls herself “Henrietta” to actually be a man named Henry to show up and leer.
Cam
Except it isn’t a slippery slope. Transmen don’t identify as women, so it isn’t a logical step that letting them in would lead to women demanding to be there.
And frankly I think you may be overestimating the appear here.
As to the straight women going to gay bars. That was handled very easily by many bars. They just gave discounts to men. When the women threatened to complain to the city the bars said if you outlaw this, then that will cancel all ladies nights and ladies drink free events, in the straight bars in the city also. The complaints disappeared.
GreekKeys
It’s not about how they “identify’ which is just a big bag of bullshit. it’s about what they are. No one can be forced to play in the personal identity games of your psyche..
Cam
@GreekKeys
You’re more than welcome to point out how this is going to ruin your day. But you can’t seem to do that.
Oh, and if you’re going to change your screename again troll. Change up your writing style.
T-7
So true. The gay bars where I live have been taken over by females. Even the Eagle and bars for men are 30% female now. Most gay bars have closed because no one wants to be around this. In fact, there are only 14 lesbian bars left in the entire country! It’s time LGB people stand up to these alphabet bullies.
barkomatic
Many transmen are extremely attractive so their loss.
GreekKeys
So, you’re deciding what people must find attractive? Like thought control?
sfhairy
I agree, till you get downstairs and see that it’s still a vagina.
barkomatic
I’m not deciding for others but apparently these camp owners are. I guess I’m so restricted. Cool.
T-7
If trans (men) are so attractive, why don’t you create your own spaces and date each other instead of forcing yourselves on people who don’t want you?
Josh447
Suggestion: open a trans camp for trans people and those who like them and be done with it.
For trans “men” to think gay or straight men with dicks are going to just up and dig their dickless bodies in a nude arena of any kind is pretty narrow minded.
Fahd
Can’t there be nudist, sex-friendly places exclusively for gay men? Sorry, but I wish there were more in my neighborhood. Maybe they can have clothing optional Sunday teas that are inclusive of the entire LGBTQ community plus their hetero relatives as a way of addressing the “outrage”. I also think those who are all about inclusion don’t need this place — book a hotel in Palm Springs or Puerto Vallarta or Key West and enjoy the weather. This place in Michigan will have mosquitos in the Summer and be cold at other times.
dhmonarch89
sadly- no…The T in LGBT owns the rest of us these days.
Monkey1
DMonarch… you said it, 100%. Sad but true.
Josh447
How did the T get in LGBT anyway? It’s not a sexual orientation like LGB. Anyone know?
iminheatlikeacat
@Josh In the same way they successfully managed to hijack BLM: Covertly. There are things on record (including a “guide”, for lack of better word) going back decades ago boasting how successful this approach is and how it was important to align with other marginalised groups and then takeover them.
Josh447
Iminheat…
Interesting. Seems with all the rukus they have caused that many want them removed from the moniker. And that most never wanted them on the moniker in the first place. Do you have any idea how one would get the T removed from LGBT?
tf3.0
Exactly. They shouldn’t be attached to the LGB at all
VaJohn
There is a difference to being a public accommodation that’s supposed to serve the general public, or a governmental agency, which, again, is supposed to treat all citizens equally. This is a private, members only club. If they want to restrict their clientele to redheads, Mormons, people over 7 ft. tall, or members of a certain family group, they’re perfectly within their rights. Do they discriminate? Yes, almost by definition (otherwise it would be a “public” club). Do you find it reprehensible? Start a club with different rules! You’re perfectly within your rights to think whatever you want about someone who would belong to this group, and they’re perfectly within their rights to do as they please, within the law. That’s why “privacy” exists, and why the general public can’t just invite themselves into your home and camp out in your living room!
I sympathize with trans people, and what they have to go through (for the record, I’m an elderly cis Gay male). I remember what laws were like for Gays in the ’60’s and ’70’s. I sympathize with not being able to use restrooms of your owned gender, or being identified by a dead name. But as you rebel against unfair rules, you can’t then insist on other unfair rules, simply because they favor you. The same “privacy” rules you rage against today can also protect you in other situations.
partyo0
well said!
sfhairy
So the ones yelling transphobia are actually homophobic? color me shocked!
Liquid Silver
It’s certainly sounding like it, isn’t it?
T-7
100%. Not only homophobic but they’re pushing conversion therapy on us as well. Everyone was outraged when the Right tried to do it to us but everyone thinks it’s cool if the woke are doing it. SMFH
Liquid Silver
Private land, private club, they’re allowed private rules as per the Supreme Court. And from the above, they look like they have enough support to work with that.
I tend to agree. If you want to hang around people with penises, while being unclothed, that’s certainly your right to do so. If you wish to hang around all sorts with all kinds of equipment, this would simply not be the club to go to. QED. Stop whining and get off the cross, other people need the wood.
WSnyder
I don’t agree with their stupid rules. I wouldn’t go since I don’t. I don’t do business with companies or businesses whose Rules, Policies or how they do or don’t support causes I believe in [i.e. I don’t buy from Chick-fil-a or shop at Hobby Lobby].
Support businesses that you like and don’t do business with those you don’t.
It’s pretty simple.
If changing the ‘Rules’ on how a business can operate is within Constitutional limits, support the people who can get those rules changed. Otherwise, you’ll just have to learn to cope. Trust in the fact that if your viewpoint is shared by the vast majority, then that business will likely not be successful or will have to adapt to survive.
calpoidog
I don’t want to see fat old guys. They need to add that to their rules.
Awen
Too bad it’s their camp 🙂 Make your own and stop being an entitled bitch
Prax07
Good for the camp. Biological females shouldn’t be allowed in a mens only camp. If you’re trans and want a camp that welcome’s Every real or fictional sex under the sun then open one.
Prax07
And No, transmen are not Men. They’re women that think they’re men, and no amount of shouting otherwise will ever change that fact.
T-7
EXACTLY
Prax07
@Missvamp Uck Foff
Den
In all sincerity, I have never heard an intelligible definition of non-binary. Obviously, people present as either male or female at birth (the intersexed have developmental defects, no different in nature than a hare lip, or extra nipples or toes), and as adults can present as men or women either based on birth or surgical intervention. Just as obviously there is no one “correct” way to present as either man or woman…masculinity or femininity being a combination of innate and culturally enforced things on a huge spectrum. But secondary sexual characteristics always separate into men or women, even among trans people because of the hormones they take. So even the most “femme” of men will have differences in musculature, distribution of body hair, composition of volatile chemicals in perspiration and so on.
Where does “non-binary” come in beyond being some kind of favored personal style?
[And regarding the intersexed, hopefully these days any surgical interventions at birth are based entirely on genetic analysis and not on a surgeon’s whim as they were in the past. Or better yet, not even dealt with until it either becomes clear what the individual considers themselves to be, or they reach the age of personal agency. I have an intersexed cousin, and he was left as male after neonatal surgery which was what he is. When surgeons have gotten it wrong in the past, the lives of these people have been horrible.]
gregg2010
Am I the only gay man that finds trans men hot? I particularly like the comment, “. . . transmen are not men.” How many times has the statement been made, “Gay men are not real men.”
Openminded
gregg, you touched on what would be the nearest thing to a fetish for me. I don’t usually find tattoos attractive (no offense intended to the inked out there) but to see a muscular tatted transman body with a vagina is a huge turn on for me.
T-7
You have a weird f*cked up fetish and you are NOT a homosexual.
Prax07
Men are biological males, women are biological females, it’s not rocket science there. Transmen are, and will forever be, biological females. Just because someone “believes” they are a different sex doesn’t make it reality. Having surgery doesn’t make it reality. Taking hormones doesn’t make it reality. The reality is they are still biological females. And biological females shouldn’t be allowed in to any place that specifically caters exclusively to biological males. Just like biological males shouldn’t be allowed in to places specifically catered to biological females.
James26
You should see what has happened to the gay fraternity system. Gay frats started in the 1990s with 2 frats. You can find pics and videos of normal guys in these frats hanging out. The frats were doing what they were meant to do: facilitate the bonding of males during college years.
Fast forward to 2021. Gay people are now redefined as “LGBT” and “men” is redefined to include females. There’s only 1 gay frat, Delta Lambda Phi, which has chapters around the US. If you check out these various chapters on Instagram, what do you see? Maybe 25-30% of the fraternity “brothers” are gender dysphoric females. Maybe another 30% are male crossdressers. In this space where college men are supposed to bond with their brothers and build each other up as men, maybe 2/3 of the membership will consist of females and men who act and/or dress like females.
For this reason, most of the normal gay and bi guys have fled the gay frats. Fortunately, because of the decline of homophobia in America, these guys are warmly welcomed into regular frats. And in those regular frats, you won’t find a single “transman” or crossdresser. I know which frat I would prefer!
Liz_B_Anne
Why would you WANT to go somewhere you’re not wanted? That in itself is rapey.
Lesbians and radfems have been dealing with this for a long time now with a vocal segment* of the trans community and it’s coming to a very public head now with the JK Rowling debacle. MichFest–founded in the 1970s–no longer exists because of it. Our already limited dating pool and female-only events have been literally shut down and infiltrated by people whose bodies are physically larger/stronger than ours and can rape and impregnate us against our will if they choose. And don’t think it hasn’t happened (visit: womenarehuman.com for some very disturbing real-world examples). Even if they choose NOT to do those things, lesbians have a right to exist in spaces with other lesbians. Ditto gay men.
There is no reason for the T/Q to remain with the LGB any longer. We were accommodating and open until this element became overbearing and outright dangerous, displaying their homophobia at every turn. Do you honestly think a bunch of otherwise liberal-minded people like lesbian and gay folks, liberal women, feminists, etc would just suddenly decide to turn on trans people for no reason? It doesn’t even make sense.
You need to sit back and look at this rationally and ask what caused the backlash because things have gotten very out of hand in the last 10-12 years or so. Tumblr has brainwashed a whole generation into believing you can demand that other people see you as you WISH to be seen. You can’t. That’s not part of your human rights, which include things like the right to exist peacefully, not starve to death, access healthcare and be treated fairly in the workplace. The PUBLIC sphere. Private events are a different matter.
* Not all trans people believe gender identity overrides biology, and the above doesn’t apply to them. Buck Angel and Blair White are a couple examples.
Liquid Silver
Let’s face it, half the L’s these days would love to go it on their own, but can’t organize well enough without infighting to do so. And they’d have nobody to blame their problems on.
T-7
Liz, you make way too much sense! God, as a gay man, I really miss hanging out with my lesbian “sisters.” Whenever my ex and I would go camping, the lesbians were always so friendly, would bring beer over and we’d sit around a campfire laughing and cutting up with total strangers. It was a great experience because there was zero sexual pressure from either side. But it seems like lesbians have all but disappeared. Everyone wants to go through this woke conversion therapy and be something they’re not these days. It’s really so sad. Glad to know you guys still exist and haven’t fallen for the trans lie.
Openminded
Sorry Trans folx, private clubs are allowed to set their own rules. The very definition of “club” is a group of like minded people. This appears to be a very narrow minded group of people, but it is within their rights to exclude people who have or ever had a vagina.
I am a member of a “Clothes Optional Men’s Only Campground”. I believe our membership would be open to a Transman joining, but I’d have to see the vote count before I would guarantee anything.
Josh447
“this appears to be a very narrow minded group of people” is inferring they are transphobic. They are not. They are gay men. They don’t like sex w women. Vaginas are a turn off completely. That’s it. That’s not narrow minded. It’s how the gay community functions just like the straight community functions heterosexually.
Please be more realistic when talking about public sex. Gay men can be very inclusive of trans folk, but if that means having vag in their face, that’s where they draw the line and rightly so.
Monkey1
You go nude, Openminded??? I’m too shy. I’ve been to a nudist-optional gay campground about 10 years ago and didn’t like it. Maybe i’m too self conscience.
mannkato
What about men with micro-penises? Or those unfortunate men who have lost their gentalia through accident or disease? Would they be excluded? If someone presents as male, with all the requisite features of maleness–I say that and yet have seen hairless men with boobs who have difficult to see penises–if he’s hairy without boobs but you can’t see a penis, I suppose in this space he’d be left out no matter the cause of his penislessness?
Monkey1
How many men, who were born men, do you know without penises? Your argument makes no sense because your scenario is a one in a million.
McKeirh
I’m a gay cis man married to a trans man. My husband is more of a man than the owner of this campground. I find it ironic that some gay men have been seeking inclusion for many, many years, yet are now exclusionist.
JDean
you’re married to a woman, and you aren’t gay
James26
“My husband is more of a man than the owner of this campground”
Define “man.”
Roy Moss
Sigh…
Is there any part of gay culture that the trans community isn’t actively trying to wreck?
T-7
Nah dude. You’re not gay. You just have some f*cked up fetish. Gay men don’t date women who IMAGINE themselves to be men. FFS
trolldiva
If that’s an accurate picture of the place, I wouldn’t want to go no matter what their policies were.
What A Dump!!!
Looks more like a cemetery than a campground.
James26
The rules are not only justified, they are necessary if they want the camp to have a reason to exist. We live in a time when some people are attempting to define “man” to mean “anyone who identifies as a man.” Trans activists prefer this definition because it includes everyone and anyone who wants to be a man. Their definition is circular, and renders “man” a word that refers only to its own usage. If we accept it, the word “man” would tell us absolutely nothing about a person other than that they use the word “man.” The word becomes empty and meaningless. There really would be no point to having a camp specifically for people who use a particular word to describe themselves.
These guys are trying to avoid this insanity and lay down a definition with some meaning and substance. In fact, I would have gone further and simply said that man means “biological male” as proven (if necessary) by an original, unamended birth certificate. Good luck to them and I hope they don’t experience the bullying and terror that trans activists visited on a lesbian music festival in that same state.
LeBlevsez
You realize your “unamended birth certificate” rule would allow trans women into your MAGA-oasis, don’t you? Christ, bigots are stupid.
Prax07
@mannjato Are you Really that stupid or just appearing so for your post to get replies?
Prax07
@mckeirh You’re married to a female, not a male, and you’re having it off with a woman, not a man. You’re either straight and in denial or bi and confused. Either way you’re bonking a chick and definitely Not gay.
IAMSONICE
The world will evolve above and beyond your mentality. Sooner or later, your fragile need to defend your masculinity will be eclipsed by the acceptance you receive from others, including trans people.
iminheatlikeacat
This is the result of replacing ‘s*x’ with ‘gender’ and how gay men can suddenly be called homophobic AND transphobic (often at the same time) for stating views as given in some of the comments above, because same-s*x attraction, by definition, doesn’t include the opposite s*x, no matter what gender that person insists they are.
I find it disgusting, ESPECIALLY on a so-called gay website, that male homosexuality is being portrayed as some sort of moral failure because it doesn’t include females. Lesbians have been hit way harder with this.
cuteguy
I may not agree with the somewhat aggressive delivery but I actually agree with the message. When I go to a clothing optional place for men, I want to see a penis. I was just at swinging Richards in Atlanta and there were no trans men performing bc mets be real, no one will tip them. They even had an over weight man performing and it was sad but no one tipped him. You go there to see hot naked MEN. Ones that are in shape and with a penis. I’m all about inclusion but fair is fair
mastik8
Would this mean that trans folk would never be allowed to form a trans only community?
Liquid Silver
Exactly the opposite. A privately-owned club would be allowed to set its own rules, so a private trans camp would be allowed to exclude anybody but trans people if they want and by the rules presented here, nobody can complain.
Openminded
Absolutely not. They can freely do that if they care to. Just like the black community has Black awards shows and black only frats, etc., any group can create their own club, show, or community to support others in their group. The “private group” issue only becomes a problem when one group never participates with or never recognizes there are other groups. The “private country club” group may think they are better than the rest of us, but it is actually their loss when they stay holed up within their gated communities and never learn what’s actually going on in the world. Sadly, too many outsiders thirst to be included in that closed minded environment.
James26
Trans people already form exclusionary communities. There are homeless shelters and community centers only for trans people. There are youth camps only for trans youth. There’s been an online fundraiser which recently topped $1 million and all of it is dispense solely to black trans people — exclusion by race and gender identity. There is even a suicide hotline which only helps trans people.
Every equivalent organization or service provider founded by LGB people is expected and forced to expend their limited resources serving trans people. But trans people are allowed to flagrantly exclude LGBs. If you’re LGB, they have no shelter for you, no camp for you, no money for you, and no help for you when you are suicidal. “LGBT” is a gigantic scam. It’s purpose has always been to redirect LGB resources to Ts, but never the other way around.
LeBlevsez
James26, I’m so glad that the LGBs were able to help you with all your shelter, camp and money needs. Those Ts are such meanies!
Thad
Is there any place like this that IS inclusive? I need a summer or fall vacation around nice people and I don’t really care about their genitals. Of course, I’m assuming gatherings will no longer be a health risk.
zimmy88
I used to belong to a gay men’s nudist group. It was a wonderful group, until a trans guy showed up gleefully sporting breasts, obviously female body structure, and sat wide-legged in front of people to showcase vagina. The club organizer was terrified to say anything because of articles like this or having to fight a costly court battle if he was sued. Half the club members stopped going. Between that and COVID, the group has basically fallen apart.
Once group get togethers are a thing again, I’m going to organize another group, emphasizing gay male bodies appreciating gay male bodies. I fully support anyone forming a group that caters to the trans community. Same for lesbian groups doing something similar. But no one should be scolded for forming a private group for biological men.
T-7
That’s their goal…to destroy and erase gay men.
mannkato
@prax07. Man you got some fire in your belly don’t you? Lol nevertheless, my question stands: if a man’s genitals are such that they are not readily observable will he still be allowed in this space? Or will inspections be in order? 🙂
BoredReader
This smells of rock throwing for the hell of it – by people who want to deprive others and would NEVER join this park
Please explain to me how a trans person identifying as male wants to run round naked and show the bit of himself he does not identify with to everyone ? ( I am taking trans to mean someone who feels they have the wrong body ) not some idiot who wants to be a unicorn next thursday
Am i missing something else , as a gay man i like dicks ( its in the definition ) I have dated bi men ( they like both ) this is a gay venue – I sure as hell would not expect being gay to get me into a lesbian venue, because i m not a member of that group
mannkato
@monkey01 my question does not require validation based on the number of occurrences in a population. Just like transmen, men who are penisless, those with micro penises, individuals with penises not easily observable, or those with injury/malformations of the genitals are undoubtedly rare in number. My only question was if males without easily observable genitalia would be allowed in the campsite. According to the article, no penis equals no entry. You gonna volunteer to be the penis inspector?!? Lmao
Monkey1
You’d have to ask the owner of this campsite if a real man with no penis would be allowed in, they are his rules.
mannkato
@monkey1. Great suggestion! BTW, My original post was a simple question not an argument advocating inclusion or exclusion of transmen from the camp. Ain’t no need to get them feathers all ruffled up! Lol
Monkey1
You’re right, I came at you with an attitude and that was wrong. Sorry about that Mannkato.
Grifxx
A biological male with a small penis doesn’t need to take contraception because he can’t get pregnant.
isxios
Look, I get that we need to be kind to our trans brothers, but I really dislike that the PC Police is trying to make us accept that a man with a penis and a man with a vagina are the same thing. Are we supposed to ignore reality for the sake of political correctness?
We all know that gay camp basically means big outdoor orgy, so in such an environment is it not appropriate to cater to the desires of the group in question? This is kinda like gay men going to a straight swinger’s club and then complaining that none of the men want to have sex with them.
They may have taken the wrong tac here. Maybe they should just have a policy of always making it clear one is trans, but if they did that they would get flack too. If they decided to have inclusion and non-inclusion nights, they would get flack.
Excuse me if most gay men just don’t want vagina, but that is kinda part of the definition of being a gay man.
dm3080
Seriously ? Let all “men” in. If you don’t like what’s between theirs legs you don’t have to look at it , touch it, or have sex with it. It’s really none of your business. Who is so sensitive that seeing female genitalia will ruin their whole time ? C’mon gays let’s get it together and stop being out biggest bullies !!
Guapulo
“Who is so sensitive that seeing female genitalia will ruin their whole time?”
Well, me and thousands of other gay men who want to enjoy a nude-male homoerotic outdoor environment, and for whom the presence of a naked vagina pretty much spoils it.
Honestly, you come off as SERIOUSLY creepy in your disregard for personal boundaries in the name of political correctness.
UlfRaynor
This question goes out to both David Reddish and Executive Director Brayden Misiolek of Transcend The Binary:
Why do homosexuals have to negate their sexual orientation to be transsupportive?
acoolerclimate
This club is in a real dilemma. They wanted it to be for gay men to be around other gay men. So for that I understand. I’m a gay man, I love penises, and it’s great fun to be around other nude, gay men who are also into penises. Also, I grew up being ashamed of having a penis. I had all sisters, female cousins, and lots of aunts. All I heard growing up was how bad men were, how terrible penis was because it is used to rape women. By the time I was in my teens, I learned to really hide the fact I had a penis, just so that all my many female relatives would love me. (I have also learned this is an extremely rare thing, to be ashamed of ones penis. Most men are proud of theirs). So fast forward to adulthood. I was on a quest to stop being ashamed. So I wanted to go to places where there were just penises around. So I could figure out how to be proud of mine. So for a long time, I only wanted to be around other men with penises, especially since I’m only attracted to people with penises. But then over time, as I gradually learned to accept my body, I started to pay attention to trans men. And I learned. And I realized they were men just like me. And they wanted to only be around people with penises too. Maybe for a different reason than me. I wanted to learn to be proud of mine, they wanted to learn what it is like to have one. But is that so different, really? I would say what the club should do is just say this is a club for men who are attracted to men. So if you are a gay trans man, interested in men, and wanting to learn what it’s like to have a penis, great. If you are a straight trans man, only interested in women, then this is probably not the place for you. If you are a bi trans man, then if you want to go, go. I know most trans men are not happy having a vagina. They would love it if their clitoris was bigger, and it does get bigger with hormones. And you know what? It pretty much does look like a penis. I would be personally very happy to buddy up with a gay trans man. I’m not sure I would have sex, but you know what? Maybe I would. But I’ll tell you, the rest of a trans man’s body is certainly male. And listen guys, trans men want to be and are men. And we should take them under our wing, and welcome them to the fold, so to speak. No, I’m not saying have sex, that is up to each individual. But don’t block trans men. I think they can teach us all a thing or two, and we can certainly teach them some things. I wish I knew a trans man. I don’t, and it’s very sad.
Monkey1
What you explained above describes why people should be able to choose how they want to enjoy themselves. If a trans man would come by trying to “learn” how to be a man or “learn” what it would be like to have a penis then it’s not a relaxing time anymore, it becomes all about them trying to figure things out. Not every place has to be open to everyone, trans people can open their own nude, trans camp site if they want why force themselves into a gay one?
Openminded
@cooler, You make a good point but as you stated, your situation is not widespread. I would venture a guess that transmen who want to find out what it’s like to have a penis is also not very widespread. For that reason, I still standby my feelings that the club has the right to include or exclude anyone they want.
I identify as a Bi Male, (to many not very widespread either, as they believe Bisexuality is not real) and assuming this club would accept me as a member, (which most will) would it be o.k. if I and a pre surgery Transman hooked up for penile/vaginal sex at the campground? I’d imagine that would be the last thing a group of gay men would want to see at their private club. I think what most are missing here is that this is a campground. It’s not your workplace or place of living where you can feel severe consequences from being excluded.
Tombear
So I am transphobic because sometimes I just want to be around natural men? This is a crap issue manufactured by ignorant people. You are forcing me to be around people I really don’t want to mix with!
Openminded
Tombear, I’m guessing that’s why you returned the tickets to the RNC convention I sent last year? LOL
It’s really a pretty simple thing to settle.
inbama
While I’m not in favor of discriminating, I can understand the owners being wary as they’re the ones who’ll have to deal with toilets clogged with tampons – or even diapers.
And then there’s the issue of chest-feeding their babies.
T-7
It’s BREAST FEEDING. By using their forced language, you are part of the insanity. Just stop.
mastik8
Who would have thought that the requirement of a penis would be so complicating.
T-7
Non-trans people are a HUGE part of the problem here. We have been spineless jellyfish who just rolled over to these bullies and agreed to use their language. The minute we started calling them “trans WOMEN” and “trans MEN”, we basically lost our own rights to our own bodies and spaces. If you notice, they now repeat the same mantra “TRANS MEN ARE MEN.” Once they have us believing this nonsense, they will insist we drop the “trans” part and simply see them as men. I will never use their anti-science, anti-common sense language. The first step in taking back our rights is to stop using this ridiculous language and drop the “T” from “LGB.” We have ZERO in common with them and they only want to destroy us. Gay people never wanted anything but equal rights. The queer/trans ideology wants to erase us! Look for “LGB Alliance” on Facebook and Instagram. Let’s take our communities back!
Josh447
I couldn’t agree more however there is a very strong support by the LGB community to keep Ts on board. We will probably lose the upcoming Equality Act simply bc the Ts have absolutely zero regard for proper bathroom/locker room etiquette. We almost had employment rights in the bag until the bathroom issue came on board in 2007. Barney Frank even tried to remove Ts pissing rights from the equation to get the bill passed but a huge uproar from yup, gay activists, blew it up. They felt they’re didn’t want those rights unless Ts got their pissing rights. We’ve been stuck ever since.
Cross your fingers the Equality Act, which could come to a vote within weeks, passes tho I wouldn’t hold your breath. Men using women’s bathrooms and locker rooms, which is part of the Equality Act, and visa versa is never going to fly, nor should it.
Dack52
Thank you, T-7, for standing up here to the trans tsunami which is determined to erase gay men and impose its beliefs on the rest of us. I have never accepted “identifying as” LGBT; I am gay and have been since childhood. No identification. Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect and pursue a life of happiness. Beyond that, I have nothing in common with trans people and wish they would leave us alone. The transmen who go off the hormones and have babies are still men? Please.
Gar
How about a guy with a micropenis? How about a guy who lost his junk at war? How about one with a congenital deformation – genitals with both male and female characteristics? Is there a rule about how a proper penis should look like to get you in? I understand it´ s not sexy to have a physical disability but please have some respect for the people.
Josh447
The idea here is about excluding women, those with woman parts, not men.
Josh447
What I don’t understand is, if a woman has a generically male brain so much so she wants to transform her body and get a penis, why would she want to be with a man? If she’s a man mentally then would it not stand to reason the brain would want to be with a woman, unless gay?