Boys vs girls

Do gay men have a misogyny problem?

Most people would agree that homophobia sucks. So does misogyny. So why do so many guy guys who have experienced discrimination in their own lives still say and do demeaning things toward women?

Way back in 2014, Rose McGowan took a lot of heat for saying, “Gay men are as misogynistic as straight men, if not more so.” McGowan later apologized for the comment, saying she shouldn’t have made such a sweeping generalization. But her sentiment really wasn’t too far off.

In an op-ed titled Sorry, Gay Guys, I’m Not Here For Your Casual Misogyny published by NewNowNext last week, writer Nico Lang says misogyny among gay men is still alive and well.

“We all know someone who loudly proclaims how grossed out he is by vaginas,” Lang writes. “Then there are the guys who think its fine to drunkenly toggle a woman’s breasts in a bar because he’s not attracted to her.”

Now, in an op-ed published by Elite Dailywriter Sean Abrams says he’s totally done with being labeled as a “gay best friend,” and he’s directing his frustrations about it at women.

“If you’ve ever heard those three words, odds are, you’ll assume we’re someone who is overtly sassy, will talk sex tips with no judgment and can tell you when your ass looks fat without you getting offended,” Abrams writes with just the slightest trace of misogyny.

He continues, “‘GBFs’ are all the rage, it seems. It’s cool for girls to be unique and–outside their regular circle of gal pals–have that one guy whom they can hang around without the fear of that person always trying to get in their pants.”

By “girls” and “gals” we assume he means women, not female children.

Abrams says the media is at least partially to blame for the whole GBF phenomenon, thanks to movies like 1995’s “Clueless,” 2004’s “Mean Girls,” and 2010’s “Easy A.”

“Apparently, we like to get things riled up, bringing around excitement in the form of some quality catfights,” he writes. “But that’s too bad, considering I f*cking hate getting myself caught up in the middle of stupid drama. I have no time for that, and I’m around for way more than to be at your beck and call.”

Being labeled as a GBF may seem like fun at first, Abrams continues, “but when it continues to be a repetitive trope that misuses our sexuality to pigeonhole gays into a sole role as the sassy, advice-giving influencer in your friend group, then there’s nothing to be applauded.”

We would add that pigeonholing women into a role of needy, emotional basket cases in constant need of reassurance and affection shouldn’t be applauded either.

The whole thing, Abrams says, is “dehumanizing.” Especially because he is “as far from effeminate as you can get when it comes to my mannerisms.”

Going back to Nico Lang’s article, Lang says attitudes like this are not helpful.

“Misogyny hurts gay men, too,” he writes. “Because misogyny is at the root of homophobia.”

He explains:

Gay men are stereotyped as feminine because we have sex with men, and society has a negative association with femininity. It’s an insult to walk, throw, or talk like a girl. When a gay man is beaten up, or taunted as a “faggot,” it’s because he’s viewed as being like a woman. Which is the worst thing a man can be. (Just look at all the “no femme” profiles on Grindr.)

So where do we go from here?

Lang says gay men can start by being a little more open-minded.

“We can all benefit from a little education,” he writes, “and instead of brushing off accusations of sexism or, worse, gaslighting our female friends, we should just listen. But if gay men don’t evolve past their own misogyny, it’s not because our sexuality gives us a pass. It’s because we refuse to learn.”

Word.

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55 Comments

  • Black Pegasus

    Gay men have a misogyny problem just as they have a [email protected] problem. Is that breaking news?

    • Blackceo

      Exactly Pegasus….on both accounts. Insert Phoebe “this is brand new information” gif here.

    • ChrisK

      They also discriminate against fat people, old people, disabled people, unattractive people, etc.

    • Wilberforce

      Yeah. This is not news. Back in the day, I knew a SF queen who referred to women as gash. Real nice. But it’s no worse that the way they treat their own people. I think it because they were discriminated themselves. So now they can only value the superficialities, looks and bodies, instead of kindness and character.

    • IDoNotHaveToAgreeWithYou

      So tell me, what white neighborhoods are too dangerous to enter? Naw, that’s a black thing.

    • ppp111

      Agree. Misogyny is just the tip of the iceberg. Ageism, body issues, and race have also been factors. I agree with some posters that it isn’t fair to generalize the gay male population but let’s be real. Gay men are just as human as anybody with the same prejudices and bias as anybody else.

    • lostom1

      Wait let me ask my Fag Hag.

  • Mo Bro

    My experience with gay men is that most can indeed be quite judgmental while at the same time being extremely sensitive to the opinions of others.
    Total eggshell territory.

    • Giancarlo85

      Ahhhhh. Self reflecting now? So how is that new health care plan going? Ready to pay 200% more in premiums? I heard a 64+ year old man making $30,000 a year will have to pay $12,000 in premiums if he wants healthcare, up from $2,000.

      And I interacted with you before. You get butthurt when people question the Orange Emperor.

    • Heywood Jablowme

      Oh, I see… somehow you have avoided all that, despite being a gay man yourself. (So you say.)

      YOU are not sensitive at all to the opinions of others! You’re always stomping on those eggshells.

    • Mo Bro

      Giancarlo85:
      Heywood Jablowme:
      Play nice, girls.

    • Giancarlo85

      Don’t play with me cause you’re playing with fire. :) I love that old Stones song. If you’re going to betray the entire community because of a deluded sense of economics and your checkbook, you’ll be treated poorly.

  • Giancarlo85

    Brian has issues with his mom. I wonder where he posts now?

    Remember one thing.. If it wasn’t for women, we wouldn’t exist. Women deserve equal treatment, equal pay and stronger representation in society. End of story.

    Misogyny needs to be mitigated and the true left wing movement needs to begin since Trumpism is failing miserably.

    • Xzamilloh

      And in the western world, women have all of that. Find me state or city in any western country where women are not paid equal to that of men. Hell, we know the court systems overwhelmingly favor women, as they by far and wide receive lesser sentences for the same crimes that men commit (barring murder), and you can’t go anywhere without hearing this feminist crap being spewed about “mansplaining”, “rape culture”, “Wage Gap” (which is an absolute lie), and how women are conditioned to hate each other because “patriarchy. Do you want to know where major misogyny runs rampant? Take a gander at the majority of Islamic countries…. but of course most of these regressive lefties won’t because THAT kind of mistreatment of women doesn’t matter because it isn’t white Christian men doing it.

      Sick of liberals like you abandoning liberal principles when it suits you.

    • Scottsdale

      What do you know about the court system? I work with the court system and with offenders every day and have for over ten years. From my experience, after interacting with hundreds of offenders, males and females receive similar sanctions for the same crimes. I agree Family Courts are more slanted in favor of women, but men are to blame for that.

      Do I really need to list the ways women are not treated the same way as men in our culture. I do this every now and then. Would it change your mind? No….

      You are wrong. Look at how parents and families react differently when they find out they are having a boy and compare it to when they find out it is a girl.

      Look at how parents structure, discipline and provide different goals depending on if it is a boy or girl.

      When is the last time you heard an adult tell a boy, a girl only hit him because she likes him? I hear that still often when a boy hits a girl.

      So you mean to tell me female sport team are treated equally in our society? That is why men to flock to just as many WNBA games as they do NBA games?

      What sport are men just cheering for the girls?

      How often are men cat called and whistled when they walk by.

      Look at the numbers of DV and sexual assaults against women. Yes it happens to men, but at significant lower numbers.

      Why are women always demeanef as whores, but men are praised when they do the same behaviors?

      Yes, female CEOs still make less than male CEOs overall. How many women are Doctors and scientists compared to teachers and nurses?

      Why do men (mostly straight) publicly announce their love for male politicians, male singer and bands and male sport stars. They will talk about female actresses, but usually more about their looks?

      Why does society continue attribute a female’s worth based off her looks, but not so much fir males?

      How many comedies do you see with an unattractive, over weight, dense female coupled with a very attractive and smart male?

      Honestly men are to be blamed and need to be more proactive.

      I usually find gay men (of course not all) repulsed at the idea of hanging out with a Lesbian. Usually Lesbians are a bit more open, but have been hurt by gay men in the past, so they built up walls.

      Are we both living in the USA? Where do you live where your senses are not working?

    • Xzamilloh

      Ho.Ly. Crap.

      Could you have listed more nonsense in so many paragraphs? Wow.

      Let me unpack this BS.

      You managed to list a number of first world subjective BS and (I didn’t miss this) ignored my point about actual misogyny running rampant in certain countries and communities

      “Do I really need to list the ways women are not treated the same way as men in our culture. I do this every now and then. Would it change your mind? No….”

      Actually, it would… it’s your small minded assumption that introducing facts will somehow be counterproductive or be ignored. I don’t have a fixed belief. Show me proof, I change my mind. And by the way, being treated differently is not inherently misogyny, so nice try with attempting to sneak that in.

      “You are wrong. Look at how parents and families react differently when they find out they are having a boy and compare it to when they find out it is a girl.”

      Where, in China? What are you talking about? Citation needed.

      “Look at how parents structure, discipline and provide different goals depending on if it is a boy or girl.”

      Examples, please?

      “When is the last time you heard an adult tell a boy, a girl only hit him because she likes him? I hear that still often when a boy hits a girl.”

      I don’t know… when is the last time you heard an adult tell a boy that he could not hit a girl back if she hit him? You’ll have to tell me because I don’t eavesdrop on random adults talking to kids.

      “So you mean to tell me female sport team are treated equally in our society? That is why men to flock to just as many WNBA games as they do NBA games?”

      Excuse me, but we are not financially obligated to patronize places or games or events that we do not find interesting. Hell, why aren’t women flocking to WNBA games the way they do NBA games? Or do you hold women to a lower standard than men and just excuse them? That’s sexist of you.

      “What sport are men just cheering for the girls?”

      Wet t-shirt contests? What sport would a man just cheer for a girl? Maybe his daughter’s softball game? Soccer game? That’s a stupid open-ended question.

      “Look at the numbers of DV and sexual assaults against women. Yes it happens to men, but at significant lower numbers.”

      It is widely known that the number of DV and sexual assaults against men run higher than reported because men are less likely to report being sexually assaulted or being victims of domestic violence. You can blame that on machismo and “being a man”, but what does that have to with misogyny. Women are also twice as likely to be believed if they report being raped or assaulted than a man. How about THAT??

      “Why are women always demeanef as whores, but men are praised when they do the same behaviors?”

      Where? So terms like “man-whore” and “gigolo” are what? Terms of endearment? Why can a woman cry and be consoled, but if a man cries, he’s looked down on? Why aren’t we able to be sensitive without being mocked, by men AND women? What can I say, man? People suck.

      I’m still looking for the misogyny. This is just first word complaining about nonthing… but let’s keep going.

      “Why do men (mostly straight) publicly announce their love for male politicians, male singer and bands and male sport stars. They will talk about female actresses, but usually more about their looks?:”

      Because men have penises, and when they find something hot, they talk through their penises I guess. How is that misogyny? You think the female audience at Magic Mike were looking for mental stimulation and witty conversations about the female condition and socialism? They wanted hot guys and swinging meat!!! What world do you live in? Women in western societies can talk about anything they want, whenever they want!! Nobody is stopping them. NO ONE!!

      “Why does society continue attribute a female’s worth based off her looks, but not so much fir males?”

      Hot people are coveted. Women judge other women on their looks. We judge each other. Maybe society wouldn’t put so much worth on the looks of females if FEMALES stopped putting so much worth into their looks. Maybe it’s Maybeliine, or maybe it’s your own self-worth that needs evaluating. Name one single thing Justin Trudeau has done since he’s been in office? What does he do in Canada? You wouldn’t know because the majority of the articles are just gushing about how hot he is, so eat me!!

      “How many comedies do you see with an unattractive, over weight, dense female coupled with a very attractive and smart male?”

      I watched an episode of The Mindy Project earlier in the night, so 2 hours ago. Also, whatever Amy Schumer plays in. Just because you can’t be bothered to look doesn’t mean I can’t.

      “Yes, female CEOs still make less than male CEOs overall. How many women are Doctors and scientists compared to teachers and nurses?”

      Citation. Effing. Needed. Just saying female CEOS are paid less isn’t proving it. Paid less in the same field? The same company? Same amount of experience? And who is stopping women from entering STEM fields? Why don’t you stop asking me why women aren’t doing this or that and ask the WOMEN why they aren’t doing this or that. Because we are equal in the Western world and NOTHING is stopping women from doing anything a man does.

      “I usually find gay men (of course not all) repulsed at the idea of hanging out with a Lesbian. Usually Lesbians are a bit more open, but have been hurt by gay men in the past, so they built up walls.”

      ….. what? Well, if anyone could build a wall, it would be those butchies lol!!!

      That was a joke. Bye.

  • Heywood Jablowme

    “we should just listen.”

    Sorry, but that’s exactly what I dislike about women. They never want to DO anything about what’s actually oppressing them. They just want someone to “listen.” Just have some more yogurt and quit bothering me.

    “The whole thing, Abrams says, is ‘dehumanizing.’ Especially because he is ‘as far from effeminate as you can get when it comes to my mannerisms.’”

    Yeah right. Lets see the videotape on that. He’s probably one of those flamers who thinks he’s “masc.”

    Gay male “effeminacy” has very little to do with actual women.

    • Xzamilloh

      More of that “listen” crap… we should just listen to everyone. If this whole intersectionality feminism nonsense has taught me one thing, it’s that applying as many labels to yourself that you can, allows you to move to the front of the oppression line and “be heard.” Everyone is oppressed and no one is oppressed, because you exalt some kind of privilege in society. I’m not even white and it’s pretty darn clear that there is a huge anti-white movement growing on the radical left, namely the anti-white male movement. And all this garbage is gonna do is alienate even more bases and ensure that Trump remains in office another 4 years, unless the left cuts out this identity politics nonsense and realize that everyone, including the white males, needs to make sure we don’t have any more Teavangelical Y’all Qaeda congresses, because Trump’s cabinet represents everything wrong with politics and the unsavory elements of the Right.

  • natekerchel

    Well at least people are being honest about this issue. I expected there to be outraged denials so I am happy to be proved wrong. And as pointed out already – it is not just misogyny that needs to be dealt with. I am forever being shocked and saddened when I hear gay men make racist remarks or denigrating people because they look a certain way. I am a 100% gay man who has never been physically attracted to a female and I certainly would never have sex with a woman, but I respect women and the contribution they make to our world. It would never occur to me to make crass crude denigrating remarks about women. We all have mothers and/or sisters and would not say things to upset them. That should extend to all women. If we have problems with individuals that is normal – we deal with it. But we are the first to cry ‘discrimination’ or ‘stereotyping’ when it is done to us.
    We can’t force to all think the same way of course. But we can look at ourselves and ask how guilty are we of misogyny or racism or fattism or ageism or any of the other isms.

    • AaronT1985

      There shouldn’t be a denial of the problem. Of course it exists. I worry that we scapegoat gays within the community and overlook the fact that a lot of opposition and discrimination on trans issues actually come from lesiban and bisexual women. Yet it seems we’re very reluctant to acknowledge that. Whenever there are accusations of racism, sexism or transphobia we seem confident to confront the fact that gay men are responsible to much of it, but I don’t understand the reluctance to accept that lesbian and bisexual women (at least when it comes to racism and transphobia) also contribute towards the problem.

      I’ve no issue with gay men being called out for their nonsense. I’d happily do it myself. But I don’t think it does anyone any good pretending it’s just them/us. Women within the LGBT community do enjoy a privilege in that rarely is what they say ever scrutinised. There’s quite an aggressive, anti-trans (women) facet among cis women within the community that absolutely nobody wants to confront because they feel uncomfortable confronting women on their opinions.

    • Giancarlo85

      Aaron, that’s a cool story, but frankly one that’s totally false. Lesbian and bisexual women actually are more supportive of trans people than many gay men. Most of the transphobia originates with gay men who think the movement should be all about them and no one else. Those gay men don’t even like lesbians taking part in anything.

      Be real please.

    • jamih

      Sorry, but opposition to trans issues comes largely from feminism and mainly from straight feminists.

    • Giancarlo85

      No it doesn’t, jamih.

    • natekerchel

      I am not sure we scapegoat gay men on this issue. But there is a tendency to underplay the complicity of gay men in the denigration of other sections of the lgbt world. Like in any other section of society, there are gay men who denigrate women or lesbians or even other gay men. But there is often denial around this, even though it is absurd to not recognise that within the world of gay men you will find a whole range of prejudices similar to those in the straight man world.

  • AaronT1985

    Won’t deny there is a problem with misogyny but is finding vaginas unappealing really part of that?

    If a lesbian said she didn’t like to see a penis I should see that as proof that she hates men?

    • natekerchel

      Agree with that. Misogyny is not about liking or disliking a vagina. It has to do with how we value, or otherwise, the role and importance of women in society, and like many other things that are wrong in our society, we can find the origins in that great work beloved of the right wing – the bible. No doubt some will try to justify this by pointing at Islam. Islam came after Christianity and took many things from it – unfortunately. But we still have individual responsibility for what we do and how we act. Anyone from an oppressed minority should know better than to perpetuate that oppression on other minorities.

  • David

    Here’s what I’ve found. If you’re complaining about a gay man’s misogyny and you’re female, you’re probably expressing a bit of misandry. I recently finished working in an environment that was more than a little female dominated, and I’m entirely happy to be out. Not because vaginas are gross, (I really don’t like the look of them, but thankfully I didn’t have to interact with any in the job) but because women are socialized to do a whole lot of really dumb things.

    Now obviously #notallwomen, but enough. I was almost constantly being gaslighted by people saying that I’d said or done things that I hadn’t said or done. I was frequently told that I was supposed to do X, so when I dutifully did X after checking to make sure that X really was X as I understood it, I’d end up at a meeting a month later and be asked why we were doing X instead of Y like we had been doing.

    After the job ended I had a coworker say, “You know _____ probably would have been a lot nicer to you if you were female.” (the speaker was female) And I felt a huge amount of relief, since I’d kind of been thinking that for a while but didn’t want to shirk responsibility.

    In the end, both sexes typically tend to treat people in the other sex differently than they treat people in the same sex. The problem for homos is that we exist in a constant state that subverts the expectations of others. Women who want a male friend who will offer them affirmation without trying to get in their vagina adore us. At the same time there’s also women who just plain don’t like men (they also happen to often take women’s studies courses) and they will get angry at gay men for doing the exact things that other women adore us for.

    There are also some gay men who looooove being the gay bestie. I have a couple who have a daughter, I get mistaken for her husband when we go to church together, I laugh and say I’m the fairy god father. Which people aren’t expecting because it’s church and there’s two people roughly the same with a baby. I’ve only ever gotten laughs about it. At the same time, I’ve known a number of women who want to be my friend just because I’m gay and they expect me to faun over them, and that’s annoying as all get out. And being annoyed by that doesn’t make me a woman hater. It makes me annoyed.

    We are allowed to be annoyed with each other. I’ve heard lesbians complain about penises, I’ve heard straight women complain about penises, I’ve even heard straight men complain about vaginas. Even if you are turned on by naughty bits in general, if you’re not already aroused they’re pretty gross and smelly. Making jokes about them doesn’t mean we hate each other.

    • Giancarlo85

      I too work in a field that is about 70% women and I am glad to be part of that as it is the only branch of government opposing the orange emperor at this point.

      The problem with your statement is that men are more likely to dumb things than females. Men… yeah… we’ve done an awesome job leading government.. not. We really ought to get out of the way for once.

      There are people who don’t like others, but generally men are the ones that lean towards discrimination. I must only need to point at the 2016 election.

    • David

      I suppose if you need to look at everything through the lens of Trump sure. This was a Canadian Church context.

      Abuse comes from all sorts of people. And I think there’s a popular notion out there that straight men are the only ones capable of being abusive. When in fact I’ve found that people regardless of sex or gender, who are able to climb hierarchical authority structures all tend to skew more and more towards abusive behaviour, typically relative to the amount of power they have.

    • Heywood Jablowme

      “I was frequently told that I was supposed to do X, so when I dutifully did X after checking to make sure that X really was X as I understood it, I’d end up at a meeting a month later and be asked why we were doing X instead of Y like we had been doing.”

      That is elegantly put, David! Yes, I’ve experienced that too. I don’t know that I’d necessarily prefer a mostly male office environment (I’ve never seen that), maybe that would be an entirely different set of problems, but there are certain problems that recur in mostly female office environments.

      I’ve noticed similar effects in retail, where I’ve often worked part-time over the years – the difference being that in retail no one has TIME for pointless meetings and pointless endless jibber-jabber with female co-workers. Even in retail they like to tack on a pointless meeting BEFORE store opening time, 3 or 4 times a year. (As annoying as those meetings were, at least we got paid for them! They were usually on Sundays too – time & a half.) In any office workplace, unfortunately, there is somehow always time for yet another meeting.

      Let’s leave out any talk of vaginas. HR will be on your case! Don’t discuss vaginas in the workplace. LOL. I’ve never actually seen a vagina… not since I was born, anyway, but I may have had my eyes closed, I really don’t remember!

  • Chris

    And yet another article about all gay men based on the experiences of a few people with a few gay folk. ….. Pass me another martini, “le-sigh.”

  • redcarpet30

    Uhm can’t there be a misogyny problem AND a GBF problem? This article makes it seem like one overrides the other.

  • 1EqualityUSA

    Humans show how unenlightened they can be when they put too much credence on atoms and molecules. What fools these mortals be.

  • Pistolo

    I don’t think it’s misogynistic to take issue with the majority’s tendency to try and take frivolous possession of a minority- we’ve seen many different iterations of that dynamic. Just look at the “Uncle Tom” and “Mamie” tropes in media, these are black characters whose own inner-world and goings on are peripheral or nonexistent until a centric white character comes along. They are accessorized to the white protagonist and exist to pander to that character without ever individuating themselves. When they do operate out of their own agency, it is in a stylized, caricatured fashion- something digestible to prejudiced audiences because it’s so damn flippant. Is that wholly different from the role a GBF plays? Is that not a societal algorithm? C’mon. That being said, I still love Clueless…

    I think there’s this premature sense that gay men are already over the rainbow, that we’re now privileged and spoiled when CLEARLY there are still a lot of entrapping, painful, oppressive complexes that we’re still contending with. Being able to get a marriage license and having slightly better representation in media doesn’t perform this magical tabula rasa on all of us, it doesn’t wipe away years of conditioning. Maybe our minority status isn’t trending quite the way it was a couple years ago- that doesn’t mean we aren’t still minorities and it doesn’t mean we’re in the clear AT ALL.

    I agree that homophobia is rooted in misogyny and I agree that we should be conscious of that but I don’t necessarily think we should pollute the sentiment of arguments such as these ones as just being vitriolic- clearly, the original author comes from a place of hurt.

  • DCguy

    From hetro flexible, to bi-erasure, to multiple articles about gay republicans and now this. Did word go out that Queerty needs to basically put out a bunch of anti-lgbt articles?

    Rose McGowan didn’t just say gay men were misogynist, she said gay men basically never did anything but wanted to dance naked on floats high on Molly.

    Funny how you left that part of what she said out AND the fact that she crossed the boycott of the Beverley Hills Hotel. Remember one of the owners is the sultan of Brunei who has a death penalty for being lgbt and McGowan held an event there.

    But no, lets all talk about how Rose is the moral compass.

    • Donston

      This site is all about sensationalism and unproven “facts” and left out info. That’s just the reality of it.

      I agree that this place is starting to whiff of self-hate. All the articles about fluidity, bi-erasure, misogyny and how they’ve been constantly promoting hetero-worship and promoting people not self-accepting. Yet, they still refuse to touch on the things that really plague us like internalized homophobia (which helps lead to fem-phobia and some gay men having misogynistic attitudes), living a life of isolation and self-destructive behavior. This is a site that promotes using people for sex only, promiscuity, partying and self-hate, yet they turn around and want to wag the finger. There’s some definite hypocrisy going on. But par 4 the course with this place.

      How about we actually write articles about the internalized homophobia, lack of self-worth and feelings of having a meaningless life that help result into things like misogyny?

    • Donston

      But never mind. This site has never been about “digging deeper”.

    • Donston

      Also, yes, if she really believes that far too many gay men are shallow and put a priority on partying, sex and drugs then how about showing some concern and trying to figure out why that is and how that can be changed instead of merely lashing out.

  • IDoNotHaveToAgreeWithYou

    The biggest misogynist are transgenders who think they can tell a woman what a woman is and that they have more rights than women because they get to decide what women’s spaces they can invade.

    • mhoffman953

      Possibly. That is one opinion. I mean, in today’s culture men who still have a penis can now be considered women.

      Plus, if we want to really extend this argument, we could say the authors on this site are misogynist considering the way they mock various women on here with their articles.

      Although, some radical leftists take the misogyny topic to extremes, such as what’s going on in Australia where they want to use taxpayer dollars to change the stick man on the pedestrian crossing signs to a stick woman.

  • nautilusjv

    Duh! Does this question even need to asked? It does of course. Gay culture has a problem with misogyny because we all live in a misogynistic culture where the feminine is at best degraded & at worst brutallly attacked.

    • Xzamilloh

      Citation needed,

    • jamih

      not really

  • assiandude

    I disagree with the basic reasoning supporting gay male misogyny of this article. If it exists in any large extent in reality, this GBF phenomena is totally about gay male stereotypes but in my experience, when my friendships occur, it’s based on solid strong mutually respectful for each other. Gender or sexual orientation has little function. I have no idea if seeking of GBF is an actual new thing or if its’ a complete creation by the media. However, gay men and straight women often become close friends simply because the gay man has no sexual interest in the female and she may find that disarming. They also have an important common sexual interest, ie males, and both can learn something about their mutual experiences. The woman from male point of view and the gay man from a woman’s. Furthermore, except as a plot devise in fiction, they are not serious competitors for an individual male’s romantic interest. They can be friends who can share both a male and female point of view without any sexual tension and in most circumstances less competition as their sexual/relationship worlds are so different. If anything, issues that arise are from the woman having an underlying interest in the gay man, but in my experience, that has not been an factor. I guess, I’ve been a GBF to several women in my life, but frankly its more just BFF rather than having anything to do with being gay or them being a woman. We just have a connection and usually it occurred prior to me them knowing I was gay and we “friend zoned” each other quickly. I do question the ability for straight men to “friend zone” a woman however.

    The actual GBF relationship portrayed by the media, is much more demeaning to gay men than being misogynistic. Usually, it relegates gay men to a supporting role for women. The GBF is there to provide support an bring humor, but is there to help the woman with her issues. How many mainstream media films has a straight female as a supporting role of a gay man? The media GBF provides a more open sexual outlook on life without judgment about her sexual freedom. A stereo-typically a gay men know what makes an attractive woman so he can offer truthful and legitimate advice whether certain clothing looks better than others or if something “makes their ass look fat”. What woman doesn’t want an honest comment by a male about whether certain looks are better than others without any underlying motive just to please her? About this issue of touching a woman’s breast while in a drunken state, in my 40 years of being out, I have never seen this except in fiction. The only place I could imagine it being acceptable in public would be in a gay male bar and from my experience, any gay man who is has such of loss of inhibition, has his attention is on other men and not on any women’s breasts. I suppose a reason to do so, is to remind the woman that she has large breasts in a place where no one is paying sexual attention so that he can move on to find someone to have sexual relations.

    As to the point about vaginas, is it misandry if straight men say they are grossed out at the thought of sexual contact with a penis? To say that it’s misogynistic for a gay man to be grossed out with the thought of a vagina is a stretch. In general, the main reason to talk about vaginas or penises is sexually and most of the negative vagina comments are made to emphasize a lack of interest. I don’t know if many gay men actual have a physical disgust for vaginas but even if they did, I wouldn’t consider that a hatred towards women, but just some some phobia about having sex with them. If having disgust with having sex with a group can be considered hatred, then I guess most people other than pedophiles hate children.

    With all of this being said, I do think that gay men as a group have a tendency towards misogyny more so than straight men but not for the reasons listed above. The key phrase that points to this, is the gay term for women who like to hang out with gay men. The reasons for gay male misogyny is that there is a marked difference between female and male cultures in how they interact with each other and expectations of behavior. I would say that the differences are huge and deeply ingrained. However, straight people do have to mesh together for sex and family, while Gay men and for that matter Lesbians don’t have reasons to deal with it except that they as minorities they have to deal with straight people. However, I also see increasingly self segregation which I believe leads towards more ill will towards groups. Neither gay men nor lesbians have sexual need for the other gender. Without that drive, the differences in cultures can lead towards misogyny or misandry.

  • bur9undy

    “Do gay men have a misogyny problem?”

    Graham, how interesting that you post this mere hours after attempting to belittle a female neighbor of yours into silence on the Nextdoor app. Please leave your hypocritical jackassery on your side of the Industrial Canal. K, thanks.

  • natekerchel

    Mhoffman – trying to appear reasonable does not suit you. You cite ‘mockery’ to label people as misogynists. In fact misogyny is the deliberate act of denigrating women’s abilities, role, and worth in society. Mockery is not confined to women and is an acceptable and widely used political and social tool. I assume you have Ivanka Trump in mind when you made the claim. That lady chose to put herself in the political firing line and is a legitimate target for ridicule and mockery. Her gender is not relevant. If it was a trump son behaving like her the reaction would be the same. Mockery is NOT the same thing as misogyny even if some misogynists use it.

  • broadshoulder

    I’d actually like to add my voice to misandrist argument. Its a real problem at work. And some people go against you because you are male

    Feminists of course – don’t even believe misandry exists? The days of equal male/female representation are over

  • Donston

    Gay men or men whose sexual attraction leans greatly towards men but still want to have consistent sex and/or relationships with women are far more likely to have mommy issues. Very few of these types of men had healthy, supportive relationships with women growing up and they constantly long to please women and receive affection from them. Though those types of men have a very peculiar and often misogynistic view of what women are supposed to be.

    Overall, I’ve noticed it’s about split. Gay men are no more misogynistic than straight men. Their misogyny just comes out differently. I’ve noticed that many gay men are fem-phobic. And that many women, even ones with GBF, are homophobic in their own ways and think gay men exist to be their pets.

    The world has a general respecting other people problem. Nothing new here.

    • natekerchel

      Excellent points. Gay men are no more or less likely to be misogynist than straight men. The issue is with men in general.

    • Donston

      There is no incentive for self-accepting, non-female worshipping homo men to “play nice”. They don’t want to have sex with you. But yes, I’ve noticed no real difference in straight, gay, bi, etc identifying when it comes to misogyny. It all just comes out in different ways.

    • dwes09

      “Gay men or men whose sexual attraction leans greatly towards men but still want to have consistent sex and/or relationships with women are far more likely to have mommy issues. Very few of these types of men had healthy, supportive relationships with women growing up and they constantly long to please women and receive affection from them.”

      Sounds like a little refried Freudian voo-doo to me, and none of his crap has ever been empirically supported. Gay men are no more likely to be misogynistic than straight men, but having no particular need for women sexually re less likely to keep it bottled up. Mommy issues and Daddy issues are not found to be a source of homosexuality, that was simply Freud’s incorrect assumption based on his biases. It is time to stop clinging to that bullshit.

  • garthjosen

    Having grown up and come out in Puerto Rico, I was shocked how clubs and clicks in New York were so split among gender lines. Even though there were always more men in the clubs in San Juan, there was always a sizable group of Lesbians and Hetero women having fun together. In the Latin clubs in New York City the crowd was mixed as well. I soon discovered it was a different world in the bard and clubs with a mostly Caucasian crowd. I often heard some of my friends cringe at the idea of a mixed crowd. In places like Provincetown I always preferred places like the Paramount because of the mixed crowd. My friends only like places like the A House because it was all male. So I have to say there are ethnic and racial differences when it comes to attitudes in the big LGBT tent.

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