“Guys my age stopped going out to bars all the time,” said Jack LaFary, a former bartender at Indianapolis’s 501 Eagle, which closed this year.
He’s interviewed this week in a piece by the Chicago Tribune, which examines the fact that gay bars are slowly but steadily going extinct.
The story echoes a similar sentiment in The Economist’s recent article that explores the same subject, reporting that over 16 gay bars closed in London between 2014 and 2015. They suggest this “points to a larger, and overwhelmingly positive, trend.”
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One problem is rent. Gay bars tend to pop up in more downtrodden parts of a city, but as those cities become richer, watering holes and dives are eventually squeezed out altogether.
Of course, hookup apps have also hindered business, providing a cheaper (and far less slurry) way to meet potential partners.
“It all changed with smartphones,” LaFary says. “When I first came out, you went to a gay bar to meet gay people. But the smartphone changed that, and it was an all-of-a-sudden thing. Business just dropped, and it wasn’t a gradual thing. It was, like, boom.”
The Economist article maintains that the number one culprit of gay bars’ slow fade into obsolescence is the fact that homosexuality is now accepted more than ever before, making the need to seek out friends in darkened corners all but unnecessary.
“Now gays can go into a straight bar and it’s no big deal,” says Colby Palmer, a gay activist interviewed by The Chicago Tribune.
It’s “a good thing for the gays,” says 501 Eagle’s former owner Tom Vester, “because they should be accepted anywhere. But it wasn’t good for me.”
It’s also a rather bittersweet victory for people who gravitate towards dives and dance clubs as a matter of personal taste rather than a lack of alternatives.
“I was… visiting my [gay] uncle in New York,” says Stavros, a 24-year-old Londoner.
Related: Five Reasons The Death of Gayborhoods Is Highly Exaggerated
Talking to The Economist, he says, “It got to 1am one night and he said, ‘Let’s go out.’ It just blew my mind. It was the first time I saw guys kissing. It was more than I dreamed of.”
While it’s hard to imagine a cultural landscape in which the magic of gay nightlife is gone altogether, there’s no question that most cities in America are losing gay bars and they aren’t being replaced.
The Chicago Tribune reports:
San Francisco was down to just a few dozen gay bars compared with more than 100 in the 1970s, according to a 2011 report in Slate, and Manhattan had but 44, half as many as it did at its gay-bar peak in 1978. In London the Queen’s Head, a gay bar since the 1920s, closed in September, going the way of other prominent gay bars in that European capital.”
Michael Bohr, founder of the Chris Gonzales Library and Archives, tells The Chicago Tribune that bar closings are “a definite loss to gay culture.”
“A man’s first trip into a gay club was a rite of passage,” he says, “both to his own self-acceptance and the realization that he was not alone, that there were a lot of LGBT people out there and they weren’t miserable and alone — they were having a great time.”
What are your thoughts on the slow decline of gay bars around the world? Have you experienced the same phenomenon where you live? Sound off in the comments below.
Josh447
I wonder how str8 bars are fairing due to the chat room / hookup app / computer advent. We never seem to hear about that angle.
Aromaeus
@Josh447: Straight bars clientele is much larger just because straight people still outnumber us by a good margin so even if apps are affecting their business I don’t think it’s taking as much of a hit. Also if “straight” bars become just “everyone” bars then all they stand to do really is gain new customers not lose them.
Bromancer7
One thing that is rarely mentioned is how this impacts rural areas. If you’re in a big city chances are you have more than one gay bar, so if one closes you can always go to another. But in rural areas you’re lucky if you have 1, and when it closes it pretty much kills the gay community because there are no other gay-friendly or gay-oriented activities like one might find in a large city.
Sure you can use the Internet and apps to find hookups, but where do you go to replace the social aspect that’s lost? Sunday brunch, drag shows, gay bingo, gay square dancing… all just gone in an instant, with nothing to replace it. Sure, you can sometimes find a gay-friendly straight bar to hang out with your buddies, but you’re not going to find the same culture or atmosphere, and you’re always going to feel like an outsider who is being tolerated instead of feeling completely at home.
ChrisK
“A man’s first trip into a gay club was a rite of passage,” he says, “both to his own self-acceptance and the realization that he was not alone, that there were a lot of LGBT people out there and they weren’t miserable and alone — they were having a great time.”
Yep. That’s what it’s all been about but today not so much. Everyone remembers their first time at the bar/club and how magical it was. Those days are over.
ChrisK
I remember the thrill getting my Iphone in 2007. I remember walking around with it and everyone was just staring. I really never saw it as anything that would destroy gay civilization though. It was just a neat toy.
Realitycheck
In big cities like NYC the scene has become mixed, and applications are taking over sex hook ups.
I bet the only people missing the gay bars are the ones now too old to go to a bar LOL
BigG
They were fun but you also grow out of that scene. That goes for straight people as well. There’s more to life than bars and clubs. I think it’s a good thing. you have that rite of passage moment at age 21. After 30 your just chasing that moment. Move on and enjoy life.
ChrisK
@Realitycheck: The bars have a nostalgic magic and it’s sad to see the end of an era. I think mostly because we connect them to our youth.
If your only way of connecting is through places catering to alcohol I’m wondering if that will curb the bad addiction rates of the LGBT’s. If so that can’t be a bad thing. Lets face it. We were shit faced drunk too much of the time. Who knew you could meet people and be sober.
ChrisK
@BigG: That reminds me of going to Weho from time to time. 80’s nostalgia is back. Snorting poppers and cocaine on the dance floor and who’s doing the after party after 2 am? Ya! Those kids think they’re so damned cool like they invented it. It’s also a good reminder of how much i’m not a part of it anymore. Been there and done it many times.
Josh447
@Aromaeus: Yes I see your point though I haven’t heard of gay guys jumping into straight bars bc gay bars have closed. But in WeHo, the straights are jamming into the gay bars. In Hillcrest in San Diego, the once hugely gay neighborhood, it’s almost unnoticeably gay today, as the streets are now filled 99.9 percent str8s. A huge shift over a 7 year period. Seems our focused neighborhoods and gay bars are both very much on the decline. Uhg.
Mack
I’m a retired senior and belong to a group of 20 or so gay guys of varying ages. We, as a group,go out every Saturday night for dinner. Our group varies from single to couples to married couple with children (they leave the kids with sitters). It’s a nice socializing time. Once a month the group does a “guerilla bar hop”. The drinkers of the group goes to a straight bar for a night of drinking and fun. So far everything has been very nice. We live in a very conservative area but we don’t hide.
Paco
Gay bars always felt like safe havens where gay men could let their hair down, enjoy some drinks and music, and have the ability to flirt with other men without the fear of being attacked for doing so. It’s a shame that so many are closing. Bars where the majority of customers are straight, and perhaps accepting of gays depending on the type of people in the bar on a particular night, will never be a satisfactory replacement.
Heywood Jablowme
@Brian: “There have never been straight bars until the gay Left invented them as a contrast to gay bars.”
Makes no sense, like so much of what you spout – the article here mentions a bar in London that was a de facto gay bar in the 1920s. No “gay Left” as far back as that (or are you now an expert on 1920s British politics?). There were gay bars in NYC earlier than that (1880s).
Before Prohibition in the US, women generally weren’t even allowed in bars. You’d have loved that, I guess!
Brian
@Heywood Jablowme: Bars that cater to men with same-sex desires have existed as long as bars have existed. However, these bars did not become “gay bars” until the Left developed gay identity politics in the latter half of the 20th century.
Kangol
@Aromaeus: Exactly. I won’t respond directly to the anti-gay troll, but I am sure many Queerty readers would be willing to Google “history of gay bars” to realize that no “gay Left” politicized straight bars; in fact, gay people often were arrested in bars of any kind for showing any kind of affection. Gay men, lesbians and trans people were arrested for dancing, letting their knees touch (yes, it was crazy), holding hands, etc. in bars. This led to one of the pre-Stonewall gay revolts, in SF. I met older gay men who recounted the dangers in the pre-Stonewall era, and you’re right, Aromaeus, there were gay bars, or covert bars where gay people met up, before any “gay Left.”
Brian
So-called straight bars are full of men with same-sex desires. You don’t need to go to a “gay bar” to find a man with same-sex desires.
However, the gay bar serves as a comfort zone for men with same-sex desires. You can be your male promiscuous self without worrying about a violent response from an oppressed individual.
James Hart
It’s sad. I live in Chelsea in NYC and have a lot of bars all over Manhattan from which to select, although I truly miss the Roxy and Splash, but growing up in Sayville, Long Island, I remember entering the Bunkhouse, one of the few gay bars on LI, when I was just 18, and how great it felt to know that I wasn’t alone in the world and there were lots of guys like myself. I know that lots of vacationers on Fire Island (the Pines, especially) also liked the Bunkhouse. A great place to get a drink before the guys headed back to NYC after a raucous weekend in the Pines. Sad that the gay bars are dying out. Truly the end of an era!
Dave in Northridge
I saw this in San Francisco. During the 1980s there were gay bars all over the city, notably in Pacific Heights and the downtown Financial District. There are still quite a few gay bars (it’s San Francisco, after all), but they’re all either south of Market or in the Castro, as if we don’t live anywhere else. I live in Los Angeles now, and my research into gay life here in the 60s showed me that between 20 and 25% of the bars in greater LA were in the San Fernando Valley. Now? Just two that I know of. Scholarship at this point blames the internet, and smartphones have only compounded things. Yes, acceptance, but ease in meeting other gay men seems to be the major factor, and it’s sad that this is happening.
dwes09
@Brian: GOD, you are an idiot!! The use of the word gay to refer to male homosexuality was widespread by the 1920’s and is believed to have been used since the late 19th century.
You really do seem to think that anything that pops into your head is true simply because it has popped into your head. Delusions are no laughing matter, you need help.
Transiteer
With acceptance and being just another “person”, the need for them has diminished a lot. It is the passing of an era. Although one can be nostalgic about it, it is a sign of progress, of acceptance, of being ‘like’ other people. Times are a changing . . . . . . and that can be a good thing.
Josh447
Guys,
Brian is a very messed up individual with a very messed up life. He, it, is anxious tortured and has zero self esteem. It is very angry and afraid and in its misery wants to dump it on others in hopes of it dissipating, though he finds it does not work which makes him even more self-intolerant. He is lonely and afraid and wants others to suffer. He is, a mental parasite and a troll that feeds on discord and conflict. That is his “identity politics”.
Not someone to feed your good energy to. He doesn’t care one bit what you think or say, unless he knows he has brought you down, then he smirks thinking that is happiness. Get a clue, he hates you, bc he can’t stand him/ itself.
1898
In the city where I live, there used to be three gay establishments: a gay bar, a lesbian bar, and an LGBT dance club. The lesbian bar closed 15 years ago (long before smartphones) and the club is closing next week. The one remaining gay bar is a cramped, smelly, beer-soaked hole that I wouldn’t visit unless I was on fire and it was the only place with a garden hose.
These places could survive if they knew how to evolve with changing times. People want and expect more than just half-naked bartenders, twinks offering jell-o shots, and the occasional drag karaoke night.
People DO want face-to-face connections and human interaction. Instead of being an outdated version of the hookup app, these establishments need to get away from the dark/sweaty/seedy atmosphere of old. They need to offer an experience that cannot be replicated or replaced by an app or a random restroom stall.
tdnte
I think its because they were boring! I have never had a particularly fun time in a gay bar – no more so than an everyday bar. I have been in gay bars all over the world. Usually they are badly managed, play tired tired music and are, well, boring.
tdnte
@1898: I totally agree.
tdnte
@ChrisK: Not everyone, never magic.
Giuseppe
It isn’t just Gay Apps that have contributed to this, gay bars are not just gay bars anymore. In NYC EVERY gay bar is 38-46% filled with women, you can’t tell if it’s some queen squealing with delight or a gaggle of girls. There’s nothing special about a gay bar anymore, the music is generally awful and there’s nothing to make them stand out from the “straight” bar next door. They’re sanitized and the covert aspect of going to a gay bar is gone, the acceptance is great but something has been lost.
Sluggo2007
I’m sure gay marriage has had an affect on all this. Married people stay home a lot.
Billysees
The article describes it this way —
“…bar closings are “a definite loss to gay culture.”
“A man’s first trip into a gay club was a rite of passage,” Michael Bohr said, “both to his own self-acceptance and the realization that he was not alone, that there were a lot of LGBT people out there and they weren’t miserable and alone — they were having a great time.”
@ChrisK:
” Yep. That’s what it’s all been about but today not so much. Everyone remembers their first time at the bar/club and how magical it was. Those days are over.
@Paco:
” Gay bars always felt like safe havens where gay men could let their hair down, enjoy some drinks and music, and have the ability to flirt with other men without the fear of being attacked for doing so. ”
@James Hart:
” It’s sad…I remember entering…one of the few gay bars…when I was just 18, and how great it felt to know that I wasn’t alone in the world and there were lots of guys like myself. Sad that the gay bars are dying out. Truly the end of an era! ”
@Dave in Northridge:
” …it’s sad that this is happening. ”
@Transiteer:
” It is the passing of an era. Although one can be nostalgic about it, it is a sign of progress, of acceptance, of being ‘like’ other people. Times are a changing… and that can be a good thing. ”
@1898:
” People DO want face-to-face connections and human interaction. ”
@Giuseppe:
” …the covert aspect of going to a gay bar is gone, the acceptance is great but something has been lost. ”
I copied the best comments but all were good. The bar scene was everything to me and I cannot ever forget it. It was a significant part of my life and I’m grateful that I experienced it.
gfmsoccer
I agree with the reasons listed here. But bar culture will always remain for the gay community, it’ll just evolve. You cant deny most gay adults like to socialize and drink, always up for a party atmosphere. So whether that’s in a gay bar, or just a cool, hipster type, gay friendly place with a bar, it will continue. There is a certain appeal though, to the exclusive club atmosphere of the gay only place, where you know everyone is gay and don’t have to guess.
Bob LaBlah
Here’s a reality that went overlooked. Consider the cost of living these days and then factor in the expenses of owning a bar targeted at one specific group. Your success depends on their discretionary spending because lets face it, going out to a bar does come under the category of entertainment. The cover charge plus the price of two drinks added in a person easily spends $30-40 in one bar alone by the time they leave.
I see it more about economics than gay apps being the root cause of bars closing.
Bob LaBlah
I won’t single any of you out but several of you made me laugh. Considering how I will hit the big 5-9 this year allow me to tell you whats actually happening: YOUR GETTING OLDER. Of course the same thing is being done in the bars that was done in the 1980’s. Its just a younger crowd that you AND I am no longer part of. Don’t condemn them to hell for doing what WE did. Just sit back and enjoy being around young people and be grateful you lived to be in that position.
Or look it at this way: in MY twenties I called many people “old queens” whose only mistake was being caught looking at me and liking what they saw. Now, it is I who am called an old queen for making the same mistake to a person who is my clone. Just as those “old queens” did to me it is now I who do the same thing, laugh at them (the younger ones) and think back to “my” days. Karma is a bitch, isn’t it?
1898
@Sluggo2007: That’s an interesting point. On the other hand, you will find tons of married guys and married couples on the hookup apps… so that brings us back to the app issue. If the apps didn’t exist but gay marriage still did, would there be a lot more married guys and married couples at the bars? I think that’s quite possible.
CivicMinded
I would totally go to a gay bar that had a community feel like an English Pub. The dance clubs are too loud and impersonal. So I attend events like gay folk dancing, outdoor activities, and boards game nights. Places where there’s no alcohol or tobacco.
Billysees
I also think that a new generation of bar owners is going to come long and redo for their generation a ‘bar scene’ that’ll be as good or better than what we experienced.
There ‘must’ be good places to meet and socialize for the LGBT community.
A also wonder whether the ‘no-smoking indoors’ laws and regulations have had an impact. I don’t want to have to go outside and freeze my butt off every time I want to have a smoke. Summertime weather and temps are a different matter.
Billysees
@CivicMinded:
” I would totally go to a gay bar that had a community feel like an English Pub. The dance clubs are too loud and impersonal. ”
But if you really like to dance like me, you wouldn’t mind the loud music. It’s not impersonal if you go to a quieter place in the bar with your dance-partner.
” So I attend events like…boards game nights. ”
That sounds like really neat. Count me in.
1898
@Billysees: “I don’t want to have to go outside and freeze my butt off every time I want to have a smoke.”
More reason to quit! Not wanting to freeze to death was one of the many reasons why I quit 10 years ago.
(Also, I can now spot smokers from a mile away — they always look much older than their age. Vanity isn’t cool, but if it gets you to quit, it’s worth it.)
Billysees
@1898:
” More reason to quit! ”
I ‘must’ agree as I have no choice. I was diagnosed with COPD (emphysema) in 1999 and I suppose like a fool of some kind, I continue to smoke over 2 packs a day. That habit has had a hold on me since around 14 years old that I can’t describe in words, and so, I keep on doing it. I’ve tried all the stop smoking things and they didn’t help at all, so, I continue on and hope that the damage will be minimal.
There was a ‘study’ some years ago that compared COPD patients who quit with those that didn’t. After 5 years, the participants were given a pulmonary function test and there was little or no difference in the results of the tests between the two groups. I’ve used that study to convince myself that no harm is being done.
If you quit some ten years ago, you must have some kind of inner self control or inner self determination that I simply don’t understand. Good for you.