Reddit has been hosting a semi-squabblefest which finds the community bickering ad infinitum about what films and television shows are markedly bad for the gays.
It begins, as such semi-squabblefests often do, with a seemingly benign question presented by a certain ShawnSparkles: “Any shows or movies that you feel give gay men a ‘bad name?'”
Unsurprisingly, the answer is yes.
Related: 10 More Must-See Gay Films Chosen By Queerty Readers
How about we take this to the next level?
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“Eric Stonestreet and Jesse Tyler Ferguson do a great job playing Cam and Mitchell on Modern Family,” says libitum, “but the gay stereotyping is always an underlying irritation for me. It’s not that there aren’t gay men like that (there are) but why does a TV gay couple have to be like this. It’s visibility v. cringe, I agree.”
“Boys In The Band is annoying for most of us who weren’t of that age when it was released,” writes YorjYefferson.
“I know the movie bugs the shit out of me and makes me hate all of them pretty much, just because they’re so whiny and self-loathing, but it is also one of the first mainstream Hollywood films to put gay guys front and center, warts and all. And none of the characters had to die by the end of the film, which counted as major progress.”
“I couldn’t watch Sense8 because I felt like it was pushing an agenda too much,” says BlatantOrgasm, though doesn’t bother to expound upon what agenda that might be. “Not sure it necessarily gives gays a bad name, but felt like it just fed into the stereotypes too much. That and every other scene felt like a sex scene, both straight and gay.”
Related: Cruising, The Most Controversial Gay Film Ever, Becomes Awesome Children’s Playset
“Behind the Candelabra was horrible,” chimes in original poster ShawnSprinkles.
It felt like it was a film from the 1970s with all the gay men portrayed as either users, perverts pr sexual predators. I’m surprised GLAAD didn’t blow a gasket over this. I find it extremely homophobic. All of the gay men are one-dimensional caricatures and not one character is rootable.
I did like Michael Douglas, who knew he could be so effective at playing a fierce bitch?
Other titles that keep coming up include How To Get Away With Murder, Queer Eye For The Straight Guy, Cruising, Sex and the City, and “almost all the gays in Filipino soaps.” (wuut?)
So what about you? What television shows and films do you think give gay men a bad name? Sound off in the comments below.
Josh447
I think the main problem with the gay reputation is too much stereo-typing which makes it difficult for the general populace to take gays seriously. That is not good. It puts gays in a media driven box not to their credit. A little is cool but it’s quite lopsided and doesn’t cover the entire spectrum of personalities gay men embody, which if more focused on, could potentially paint a fuller more accurate picture that truly exists. Seeing Christian Slater and James Franco portray gay men in cinema is a good example of the tide shifting to a more inclusive non-typecast perspective tho the backdrop sex driven content of their movie King Cobra may be for some, debatable. Nonetheless it is still breaking down stereo-types and Franco loves breaking ground through authenticity, especially if you choke a bit on it. That’s where he answers you with his boyish grin.
Gay actor casting is getting more balanced over time and will most likely continue to do so. That is a good thing and can widen the general populaces perspective to a more broader version of the all American gay male.
seaguy
Someone will always find something they do not like in something so really this question is going to be one that causes squabbles, so it’s best to just agree to disagree. It all boils down to what one feels is how we should be portrayed. Some want to keep anything that is less than angelic suburban family friendly behavior out of the picture. Others feel that we should not hide our diversity it is what makes the community.
Personally I liked Behind the Candelabra and it was about Liberace’s life based on Scott Thorson’s memoir I believe so if one dislikes that then don’t watch the movie. But if it had been altered then it would have been a fictional portrayal not based on fact. As a closeted gay man Liberace had his demons but that was who he is like it or not.
He BGB
I like the sissies and stereotypes. But I also like when there’s a story where the character just happens to be gay but there isn’t a big deal made about it. Liberace was a real person who denied being gay and having AIDS. The movie was a bio that told the truth. Still waiting for a true bio of Cole Porter that doesn’t make him straight. Even My Brilliant Career, she was really a lesbian but they made her straight.
paul dorian lord fredine
you can dislike a show or movie because it’s not good, but to base the dislike on a perceived stereotype is just nit-picking. a film/show reflects a time and place in society and to try to claim that none of us ever knew a flambouyant albert-like character or had never stepped into a ‘cruising’-style leather club is either in denial or trying to protect some self-imposed image. people and places like that existed and still do in most cities, so if you want to get all pissy, claiming some kind of offense because it’s in your mind some kind of stereotyping only makes me think that you’re ashamed of something and possibly have something to hide. it takes all kinds and if one embarrasses you i can only think the whole lifestyle is some sort of embarrassment because you’d feel shame in thinking someone could possibly think you’re ‘like that’. so get over yourself. there’s always going to be someone who thinks you’re ‘like that’ and they’re the people who don’t matter as long as you know and accept who you are as you are.
ChuckF
If you compare what we are going through with media coverage it’s far better and faster than what our Black brothers and sisters went through. Change is never easy because the middle doesn’t like change. I’d say we’ve made real progress when a gay or lesbian characters is now almost a requirement in most movies and TV shows.
Paco
If seeing a certain archetype of gay males being presented makes you feel discomfort, then the problem is within yourself and something you need to deal with internally.
Terrycloth
A gay film or TV show should be written by gay writers/producers for it to be truly believable otherwise it comes off as characters of gay people stereo types straight writers think we’re like.
AxelDC
Boys in the Band is a film of its time. It was made in an era when gay men and women were arrested and fired for being gay on a regular basis. If the boys sound whiny, it’s because they were abused. Most gay men of their time stayed in the closet. It may be hard to watch, but it’s important to understand how ar we have come.
Behind the Candelabra was nice to Liberace. Scott Thorson was 18 when he met the 58 year old Liberace. Matt Damon was 44 in 2014, making him looking a lot more age appropriate for Michael Douglas. Thorson was barely legal, living with foster parents, and had no skills and a menial job. Liberace was world famous and fantastically rich. The film actually underplayed the relational dynamics and how badly Liberace used Thorson and then left him high and dry when he found fresher meat.
jloontheroad
As a 40+ gay man who has lived with all the stereotypes as a kid where I was forced to be something I wasn”t to be accepted, I”m just extremely happy that gay characters are increasingly prevalent on network TV. I loved Jack in Will & Grace, because he was funny, I cannot stand Modern Family because to my mind it’s trying to create this image of cutesiness that rarely exists in the gay relationships I know. In fact here in HK I know one v rich gay couple that have adopted kids & that’s wonderful but it’s by no means the norm. Most of my gay friends, even at the age of 40, barely know what they want out of a relationship because we’ve never been given much of a choice. They”re succesful, brilliant even, but they all feel this pressure to conform to a heteronormative viiew of relationships. My own family history mKes me privilege exclusive relationships (divorce young age hatred of paternal figures etc), and for the longest time I was inable to understand a non-heteronormative relationship. It’s taken forever. And the characters I see on TV are a huge part of it. Do I wish they reflected my social circle’s values? Maybe. But as someone who grew up believing that I would die of HIV if I ever so much as looked at a gay man, I fucking thanks the gods every day that I live in a world (albeit flawed) where sexuality is simply a characteristic & not a flaw.
jcoberkrom
I’ve always avoided Modern Family for it’s bad stereotype of a gay male. What makes it worse is that he’s played by a straight man!
Can you say “Step & Fetch It”?
A butch gay man just wouldn’t be funny. Well, yeah it could be if they hired some talented writers.
Brian
The word “gay” represents a feminization of MHD (male homosexual desire). So, by nature, the word “gay” is a stereotype.
There are no TV shows in America that depict MHD in a mature, non-stereotypical way. Modern Family has the worst gay stereotype possible.
Jack Meoff
I agree with most of the comments above that Modern Family has the worst gay stereotypes on TV today. It’s a straight man’s version of what he thinks gay men are like as are many films and TV shows that portray gay (Birdcage, Will & Grace, Dallas Buyers Club, Priscilla). There are also many gay films made by gays that fall into horrible stereotypes as well like Torch Song Trilogy and just about any teen based coming out movie. Some of the more recent movies about gays are much less stereotypical. Loved the movie adaptation of Holding The Man and The Normal Heart.
RealBlast3
There are all kinds of gay men in this world. There are feminine and flamboyant gay men, there are super butch, masculine gay man, and then there is everything in between, just like there are kinds of straight men.
I have a real problem when people complain about gay “stereotypes” in film or TV. When I hear that, I want to complain about homophobia from those who are denigrating gay men who don’t fit into the heteronormative masculine types.
All of a sudden now, there’s such a thing as too gay, essentially. A poster above praises a movie that had the casting of non-gay actors in it because it wasn’t using “stereotypes”. To me, that’s just code for people not wanting to see feminine, flamboyant gay men on screen or tv.
I think all portrayals of gay men should be celebrated for their diversity. If you don’t want to see a character like Jack on Will and Grace or the men on Modern Family – don’t watch them. There actually are choices in movies and tv now of all kinds of gat characters if you bother to look. Ever so often this site and others will post helpful post of all the current shows or movies with gay characters in them – last post had over like 50 examples with all kinds of gay men and women in it. Something for everyone.
jjose712
Stereotype is not a problem, the problem is when the character is only the stereotype, when the writers or the actors are unable to give live to the character beyond the clichés.
And about the gay villains, i have the same problem with the black and latino villains. If the only gay character is a villiam that’s a big problem, when you have more gay characters, not so much
TinoTurner
I won’t watch gay movies written and directed by gay men because I vomit at all the cliches. “short bus” is one example which I think made us look bad to Heteros. Peeing in a tub? A bitchy drag queen? Etc etc. No thanks.
jjose712
@Terrycloth: Sorry, but that’s absurd. We have plenty examples of a gay headwriter doesn’t mean anything about gay representation.
Teen Wolf, gay headwriter, in the show the gay character was defined exclusively by his relationship with other characters, and the writer never had the intention to integrate him in the main storyline.
Quantico, gay headwriter, and this is probably the worst gay storyline in recent television, the fake gay character (please somebody explain to me why he really feel the need to lie about his real sexual orientation) is a hero, while the gay character is a traitor, a coward and not even an inteligent villain.
Spartacus, straight headwriter with a straight male predominant audience. He didn’t care about some viewers complains, he treated his gay characters exactly like he treated his straight ones (which means a lot of them end dying), he didn’t even shy on the gay sex scenes.
It’s exactly the same with straight actors. I have zero problems with straight actors portraying gay characters, what i don’t want to hear is them complaining about how hard is to kiss another man or being labeled as brave.
And it’s not about playing a non masculine gay, in comedy there’s always a lot of play with stereotypes (not only gay ones). My problem with Eric Stonestreet portrayal is that i never see a gay man, what i see is a straight man playing the way he thinks gay men behave. Jesse Tayler Ferguron or Noah Galvin’s characters are not masculine gays either, but their performances never gave the over the top fake flamboyance that Eric’s performance give
Billy Budd
CRUISING is certainly full of prejudice. I dislike it intensely. It is a nasty nasty movie. A low blow, no pun intended. But most other films such as b t candelabra and king cobra are just a natural product of the lives they portray , and even considering this fact, I don’t believe there is prejudice involved.
Josh447
I agree with the above comments about Modern Family. I watched it once and was totally turned off by the again, never ending flamboyant gay stereo-typing. That’s not to say I have anything against flamboyant men. I don’t. They seem(ed) to rule the airwaves as a punchline for people to laugh at, not with, at our expense. Everyone’s expense actually. It’s all a matter of balance. And then there is the other part about learning acceptance of all personalities. That’s really an honorable goal. Regardless of personality types, we did get and are getting lots of exposure.
Herman75
For me the worst shows are comedy shows that validate homophobia, especially from today’s young comics such as Tracy Morgan, Chris Rock and Kevin Hart. I love a truly clever stand up artist such as Aziz Ansari. That explains why Ansari can sell out Madison Square Garden while clowns like Kevin Hart are so beloved by Hollywood and their appeal to the lowest common denominator.
I also am fed up with Bill Maher and his perpetuating gay men as a bunch of prancing, nancy boys who’s main focus in life is getting their mouth around another guys dik. He is an old school liberal that needs to retire.
Heywood Jablowme
@Herman75: Really, you see that with Bill Maher? I watch his show every week and haven’t seen that. He has lots of gay male guests and they’re all over the map.
Agree with you about Aziz Ansari, he’s very good.
Captain Obvious
Honestly online I’m always seeing complaints about people supposedly pushing feminine gay men out and away. In real life I see masculine gay men pushed out and away.
The feminine gay gal pal stereotype is annoying and damaging. If that’s not who you are people both straight and gay try to push it on you and if you say anything to the contrary you’re “not being yourself” or are “homophobic”. It’s ridiculous.
I don’t think anything is wrong with the image in general. It’s when people stereotype and bully others to take on that image that’s the problem. It’s almost like being masculine is being outlawed no matter what your sexuality is now.
dwes09
@Brian: “The word “gay” represents a feminization of MHD (male homosexual desire). So, by nature, the word “gay” is a stereotype.”
Just because you imagine something does not make it true. how many times do you have to be told that before it sinks into your damaged and closed mind?
The word Gay, comes from references to the “gay life” dating back at least to the 1800’s. it referred to the world that included prostitutes, hustlers, gamblers, and so on. It is not a “feminization” of anything except in your mind.
And look up stereotype in a dictionary. Gay is, in its modern sense the equivalent of black: a chosen signifier for a specific group of people who resented the clinical and seemingly derogatory (as it only refers to sex, and not affection and bonding) ‘homosexual’. It is a word a word for the subculture of male homosexuals arising out of their ghettoization and oppression (gay bar, gay neighborhood, and so on). It is currently being edged out by “queer” among younger folks.
A word is not a stereotype. You need to look it up, and you need to get out of your mind and into the world. There are probably drugs that would help you get a grip on reality.
Herman75
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Gates
There are many tv shows and movies that portray gay men as regular guys and not screaming stereotypes. Movies like Shelter, Undertow, Dog Tags, Free Fall, & Broken Hearts Club, and tv shows like Empire, HTGAWM, Hit the Floor, & AHS. Even though we still have the screaming stereotype, ( and there are a lot of gay men like this ) we also have the regular guy. It wasn’t long ago that all gay portrayals were shrieking, gossipy, miserable people.