AB: You’re obviously not anti-nationalism. You understand that people are going to have different affinities to different groups, but do you think that nationalism could be an essential component to cosmopolitanism? If we foster nationalism and persuade people to be patriots and bind people to their countries – if we do that, if we group people in small groups, maybe it doesn’t have to be nations, that could be an easier way toward cosmopolitanism, spearing through individualism and creating that collective mindset?
AA: The important point that I want to make in this debate is that you can be a cosmopolitan nationalist. A cosmopolitan isn’t someone who says, “You can’t have any identities besides your human identity.” A cosmopolitan is someone who says, “You do have a human identity and it does makes demands on you. You have a national identity and that makes demands on you, too.” My view is about how you should balance them. You need to make sure that every human being has the chance to realize the things that every human being is entitled. As long as you’ve given humanity what it’s owed, then you can do other things for people you’re close to, people with whom you have special relationships with. It’s part of my view that our cosmopolitan obligations are to make sure everybody has this basic shot at a life of dignity – and not more than that. I’m not, for example, an egalitarian. I don’t think we should struggle to make everybody in the world equal in terms of access to resources. I think that we’re entitled to adequate resources for human life, not for the same resources, for example. My view is that cosmopolitan places reasonable demands on us – we’re not meeting them, we should be doing more for the poor people in the world, but we could meet them and still go on living lives in which America matters to us, being Jewish matters to us, being black matters to us or being gay matters to us and so on.
AB: What can a normal person do – just a normal Joe – to achieve this goal?
AA: Well, I think there are two levels on which you can act. First, I think all of us pick some cosmopolitan project within our grasp. It doesn’t have to be any particular one, but pick some charity, pick some organization, make a contribution to increasing the number of people in the world who have a decent chance at a life of dignity. The second thing, if you’re American, is try to make your country’s foreign policy cosmopolitan. If you run for office, you should run as a cosmopolitan, if you vote for people, you should vote for a cosmopolitan candidates. Right now, for example, in the Democratic campaign, we have at least one candidate who is deeply cosmopolitan and that should matter to cosmopolitans. It’s someone who thinks authentically not just “What does this mean for America,” but “What does this mean for the world?” You should cheer that person on and you should think that’s the reason to vote for him.
AB: “For him,” ah-ha!
AA: Whatever the merits of these candidates overall, I think it’s quite clear that Obama is more cosmopolitan than Clinton.
AB: I agree with you. I was discussing with someone the other day about how when the Clinton and Obama camps were arguing about race. We discussed the pros and cons: you bring up race all the time and you end up building on those tensions and making people bitter and contemptuous, but then also – America is not done with race, not in my opinion – so, is it good or bad that these things are coming up, that people are getting so emotional and having these visceral responses?
AA: Well, since I agree with you that we’re not done with race, I think it’s an appropriate topic for politics. Now, whether it’s helpful to get all emotional about it, that’s a different question, but I think it’s a perfectly legitimate topic. And, actually, one of the interesting things about this campaign is that it shows – it’s the first time in American history that you can run a black candidate and he can get a significant number of white votes. That’s a big statement for our country. We should be pleased about it. It doesn’t matter who wins – well, it does matter who wins, I think – but whoever wins, we’ve done something already. I feel that’s a very positive development. And if we have to have arguments – and, look, I think that some of the stuff that Bill Clinton said in the South Carolina campaign was irresponsible and someone who cares about the country, the Democratic party and race shouldn’t have said some of the things he said.
AB: Well, I don’t know if he cares about the Democratic party.
AA: It looks like he cares a bit more about it than we thought. On the other hand, that may just be because he cares about his wife and, in general, I think the people can exclusively about their spouses and lovers. It’s very hard. We know that Bill Clinton has difficulty making the distinction between the public and the private, so it’s not surprising that he’s having a hard time dealing with this, but I think he went in a bad direction there, he apologized and he realizes that he went in the wrong direction, so there was a feature of it that wasn’t good, but the fact that people want to talk about race, that’s fine.
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M Shane
I want to say right here that this guy could not be more accurate: Indeed I can only see the issue on an abstract level: I don’t think that you can say that you believe in equality without the gay agenda being neutralized and precluded by our refusal to make a society that is just for all people alone. hat just promotes a selfish agenda and makes the project meaningless. Many gay people fall in the shadow of selfishness without realizing that they are promoting an ethic which applies to them.
msim
I really don’t like to post but you have forced my hand, boys.
I can’t believe you got this wonderful interview with Mr Appiah. He is a great (post?) modern thinker. I wish he, like Dick Hebdige and Stuart Hall, were more present in the current American discourse.
This is why I love Queerty; some trash, some gossip, some politics, some great music and High-Academia (I remember the Valerie Steele interview).
Thank you.
M Shane
Yes , yes. I couldn’t be more pleased that you are bringing chalenging thought and absolutely important material to the forum. This seems a little thoughtfully hitting on popular thought than academia, and I hope that everyone rises to the chalenge.
One of the really horrible and mosty destructive things about a lot of queers is that they get so traumatized in school that they never learn to read and think. That of course condemns us to just fucking and drug addiction and materialism.
If we want to get anywhere as a community we need to think. as well as have fun.
Charley
I am for Obama also, but if there was a gay candidate running I would be voting for him. I presume this professor is coming from a black perspective, which is, whether he admits it or not, egocentric, and some would say racist.
M Shane
I’ not so sure, Charlie, about the prof .having a black perspectivce: he’s not black! he’s looks to be a caucasian: an Indian of some sort, I’m sure. he is admitedly gay though.
Andrew: re: “What do you make of the federalist argument here in the United States? [states rights] What does that do to American democracy, in your opinion?”
The fact here, which so many Americans are so frightfully confused about is the assumption that democracy has anything to do with justice (appart from the pssiabilirty that everyone votes). Alexis de Toqueville in 1850 made a point of saying that democracy was one of the great dangers to [freedom]. The people can (as they have) vote in a facsist totolitarian leadership. Look what happened with Bush %78 of the religious fringe element(the crazies voted him in. That’s what the GOP is betting on now.
We have a huge population of selfish, arrogant dummies who vote. People always think that there are no socialist democracies: wrong.
M Shane
Look what happened to Hitler, for that matter.
M Shane
What he brings up and I ‘m curious about is are people concerned about the institution (ie being like heteros) or about rights???????
charles
“I’ not so sure, Charlie, about the prof .having a black perspectivce: he’s not black! he’s looks to be a caucasian: an Indian of some sort, I’m sure. he is admitedly gay though.”
Um, his dad is black and his mom is white, and he teaches African and African-American studies.