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Is Dustin Lance Black’s Prop 8 Doc Going to Slay the Mormon Church?

You didn’t think a filmmaker would miss out on the chance to turn November 2008 into a feature documentary, did you? 8: The Mormon Proposition is, to our knowledge, the first major film dedicated to figuring out just what the hell happened in California when Proposition 8 passed. And the reason you won’t be able to ignore this film? Because of the heavy hitters behind it.


Dustin Lance Black narrates. Big bucks philanthropist Bruce Bastion exec produces. And Steven Greenstreet, whose doc This Divided State was about none other than Michael Moore, and his 2004 visit to a college campus that yielded death threats and lawsuits, produces.


And then there’s producer-writer-director Reed Cowan, who blogged over the weekend about how making this film has cost him his family: “My determination has been tested. At this writing, I have lost communication with my sisters and my mother and my father. They are wonderful people and they are Mormons. The fear they have over what this film will say has worn thin to the point that our relationships are stressed and I fear broken forever. I’ve agonized over hurting them and I’ve agonized over hurting my other devoutly Mormon friends and family by releasing this film. For the anticipated hurts, I sincerely apologize. I wish no one on this planet pain.”

But all is not lost. Reed has a message to deliver, and he’s promised to do it.

But I finish this film as a promise to those who came to share their stories. A promise that I heard them. A promise that I felt their words and their desires. A promise that I wont let their words stay on a quiet tape somewhere locked away.

One of the most articulate spokespeople for civil rights is holocaust survivor, Elie Weisel (NIGHT).

The words he once spoke drive me to continue my work to get this film out to the masses.

“I swore never to be silent whenever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.”

Indeed, on this issue, I have taken sides. I side with civil rights. And I give you “8: THE MORMON PROPOSITION” in pursuit of the day when we all know a world where civil rights are extended happily to all.

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  • Sickofitall

    Just another hit piece. Gays rights are not civil rights. You can package it all you like to look like civil rights because you will deceive anyone to continue your lustful iniquity.

    Going after the Mormon Church only makes you look like a religious bigot. Not a way to score points. You actually make Dallin Oaks statements come alive. You are trying to silence the religious voice through intimidation.

    Reed Cowan is a coward. Anyone who would intentionally harm their family for the plaudits of mankind is in danger of losing his ability to associate with them in the eternities.

  • Jeff M

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    Hmm… look again. Sure do look like rights to me.

  • Bert

    The whole point of shunning or exiling a person is to make them go away, and thus remove their influence, even though the Cherch would insist it’s to “protect” the faithful from corruption. The act tricks the heretic himself into expending his own resources, and makes him look damnable for going without a fight.

    I would suggest that Reed Cowan should keep touching base regularly with his family, lest they claim later that it was Reed who “broke communication” with them. They’re bound to “forget” that they were ordered to ignore his calls, and dwell more on him having given up at some point later. Voicemails, postcards and emails all count.

    I know from experience that this works with non-Mormon families, too.

  • Bert

    Ooooh! “Lustful Inquity”!

    I think I have a new name for my band!

    Thanks, SickAsADogma!

  • Tom

    Cowan wrote:
    “The fear they have over what this film will say has worn thin to the point that our relationships are stressed and I fear broken forever. I’ve agonized over hurting them and I’ve agonized over hurting my other devoutly Mormon friends and family by releasing this film. For the anticipated hurts, I sincerely apologize. I wish no one on this planet pain.”

    I’m not buying it. The gay movement just selected an easy target to vilify: the Mormon Church.

    It is not true that the “influence” of the Mormon Church made a difference in the California election.

    What IS true is that blacks turned out in droves to elect President Obama and in the process tipped the scales to demolish gay marriage in California. But alas, the gay movement knows that he’d better attack an easy target, like the Mormon Church, rather than attack blacks Californians.

    But, when has the gay movement EVER been truly courageous or accurate?

  • Sickofitall

    Lustful Iniquity? Just look at the pictures (ads) on this page. That looks nothing like marriage to me.

  • Yuki

    Even for a politically-slanted documentary, it seems like this holds an insane amount of bias. I know the Mormon church donated a lot to Prop 8, but they weren’t the only ones in favor of it. This seems like it’s just trying to single them out.

    I may not be a huge fan of religion, but even I think this is unfair.

  • Republican


    What kind of twisted logic is that?

    I suggest you get a copy of some mainstream men’s magazine that you can find in the grocery store aisle (like Men’s Health) or go to where you’ll find plenty of discussion about sex, pictures of women, and jokes about things like premature ejaculation. None of that looks like marriage to me. Guess straight marriage should be banned.

  • mishi

    Tom: “I’m not buying it. The gay movement just selected an easy target to vilify: the Mormon Church.”

    Maybe the LDS selected an “easy target” when it fought long and hard to keep gay kids out of Boy Scouts? Or when it claimed God made blacks inferior, only doing away with its institutionalized racism under political pressure? While gay Mormons are welcome in LGBT parades, a BYU student merely espousing support for gay rights is subject to disciplinary action. Hell, in the spirit of ecumenical tolerance, Joseph Smith himself declared all other Christian creeds “abominations.” Not that that’s “religious bigotry” or nothin’.

    And as far as “accurate” goes…listen, all organized religion is full of a certain amount of hooey. But, because it’s based on historical “facts” open to verification, Mormonism is particularly rife with easily disproven bullpucky. Nobody can prove whether the burning bush existed, but we CAN prove that the Mormons’ tale of Native American origins is utterly fabricated, or that the so-called “Book of Abraham” was no such thing.

    Still, anybody – from Scientologists to saucer contactees – has a right to believe any damn thing they want to. It’s when they seek to base political jihads on theological hoohah like “heterosexual marrriage is of paramount importance because nuclear families will be reunited in the flesh after death, and in fact God the Father is married to God the Mother” that they lay themselves open to criticism. And yes, the Catholic Church also deserves blame for the passage of 8. But hey, the Mormons already believe Catholicism is an abomination, and that comes straight from the Angel Moroni…

  • Alexa

    I assume people like sickofitall, who don’t approve of the ads on this site, are firmly behind allowing lesbians to marry? After all, most of the arguments they use about men not being suitable for marriage don’t apply to us. If you’re against lesbians marrying, sickofitall, what is your reasoning?

  • Sickofitall

    Actually Alexa, I don’t believe a piece of paper saying “married” is going to change any of this maladaptive behavior. It will only allow the sexually confused to propogate this insanity into the lives of children.

    What I am concerned with the most are the children being exposed to this and eventually embracing this behavior, denying themselves what is their fullest potential through the sex they were assigned at birth by God himself.

    I am concerned that they are being denied a mother and a father male/female influence in their lives. Yes, that goes for heterosexuals too who abdicate their responsibilities to raise children in a committed home. This coming from a person who was denied both a mother and a father from early on.

    Nature discriminated against gays first. God is nature. Why are the voices of millions who have left homosexuality being silenced? There is more to this debate than a “civil rights” label. We don’t have the luxury of experimenting on children to find out if this is okay. We know better.

    As for lesbians raising children, there are many studies that show this is not optimal. It’s not the end of the world, but not optimal. Children need both sexes in their lives. Period.

    When we think we are better than God at creating families, we only set ourselves up for disaster.

  • rodney

    The Mormons couldn’t buy this kind of good press. Basically the homosexuals whom religious folks will NEVER view as anything but immoral and evil, are putting the insignificant Mormons at the top of the list of opposition. Who honestly is going to watch this movie? The only audience will be homosexuals. By dragging the Mormons into the battle all you’ve done is make them the poster boy for morality and family values.

    The message of Reed Cowan is that my sexual lusts and homosexual community clout are more important than my family relations. You may not see it that way, but anyone with a moral compass does.

  • rodney

    Alexa, the ads on this site say a lot about what homosexuality is all about. A lot of licking and sucking…..that’s about it.

    Traditional marriage and relationships are about fostering children with the influence of a mother and a father. Would you consider it appropriate for a young child to view the ads on this site? I sure as hell wouldn’t.

    Fortunately people with a moral compass also were blessed with the understanding that two penis’ or two vaginas can’t produce children. By nature alone homosexuals are destined for extinction. Why should society reward you for killing off our species? Heteros are rewarded because they perpetuate the human race. When homosexuals can figure out how to reproduce we’ll let you get married. (hint: penis goes in vagina)

  • Michael @

    I support anything that identifies Bigots, particularly religious ones because of their greater organizational and financial reach.

    BUT…when does something otherwise good become a part of the problem rather than the solution?

    It was allegedly “submitted to Sundance” …. as in the festival that brings in millions of dollars to Mormon-controlled Utah????

    Uh, why is anyone who GENUINELY cares about LGBT equality and gets what’s required to achieve it continuing to make an exception for Sundance? “Oh, Possum! We Artistes are above all that grimy political stuff, don’t you know?”

    Does anyone here genuinely believe that God suddenly told the Mormons that polygamy and banning blacks and electro-shocking gays was, ooops, now wrong and selling alcohol and pay-per-view porn in Mormon-owned Marriott hotels, ooops, now okay? They, just like the supporters of Jim Crow laws, changed because society generally and people with money to spend no longer tolerated their nonsense.

    And that’s what it’s going to take with churches [and not just Mormons] re LGBT rights, too. Public condemnation as bigots and financial boycotts of any businesses associated with them.

  • Republican


    Please do fuck off. Go back to grade school with your “penis goes in vagine” bullshit.

    Oh, and sorry, you don’t control your fellow humans, and you don’t get to “let us get married”. We are individuals, not your slaves. Gay people are not second-class citizens. And you don’t get to treat us like we are. Gay marriage WILL be legal nationwide very soon. Better run inside to avoid the big, bad world

  • PopSnap


    And, how is this “licking and sucking” affecting YOU? What is it to you if I fall in love, finally happy for once after being bullied and rejected? How am I hurting your family, your marriage, by living seperate from you, away from your self-righteous holier-than-thou self?

    I want nothing to do with you, so why do you want anything to do with *me*?

  • Commonqueer

    Rodney, does your “moral compass” still include polygamy and old men having wives that are prepubescent, or has your church grown out of that practice?

  • PopSnap

    Also, there are a LOT of verses I would never let my children see in the baby. “Dasheth their heads against the rocks”? Not to mention Noah the pervert, along with all of the women & children that God was always telling his people to rape. Plus, stone your children for being disobetient! Why would I scare my kids in that way?

    I’d love my kids enough to accept them however they are, even if I disagree with it morally. Same thing with humanity in general. You, however, cannot say the same thing- you depend on your book of bronze age desert nomad myths that include talking animals and unicorns and Jewish zombies and the Earth not being round, among other things.

  • PopSnap

    *I said baby, i meant bible, lol

  • Aaron

    Rodeny, gay people don’t make or create other gay people, straight people make gay people. We’re not driving ourselves to extinction. As long as penises are going into vaginae, a few of us are going to pop out now and again.

  • Alexa

    Concern for the children, how touching. I assume, then, that the people here against gays and lesbians marrying are also against ALL people who can’t have children marrying?

  • Bruno

    @Yuki: The LDS church’s involvement in the process and the funding of prop 8 was so imbalanced that they have to be singled out. I’d suggest watching the film first before jumping to that conclusion.

  • Commonqueer

    I’m concerned for children who live in homophobic homes and cultures, there’s the REAL danger. Risk factors like depression, suicide attempts, homelessness, drugs and alcohol as a coping method, and not to mention being physically harassed are all much higher for GLBTQ youth, because people like Sickofitall and Rodney encourage homophobic intolerance and make queer youth feel bad about themselves.

  • Ryan

    Where are the voices of those “cured” of homosexuality? First, one of the main things taught to those who go through such programs are told to not talk about it, thereby making their silence part of the program. Second, as far as it can be verified (if at all) the “evidence” that is often used is actually faked or created out of very unscientific procedures. One case in point

    As for children needing both sexes of parents, well, again the argument is not properly scientific. The studies often cited by those who say both sexes are required are actually only studies of comparing both biological parents raising the child verses only one biological parent. Homosexual parenting is in no way represented in those studies. Researchers have often had to call out certain organizations for misuse and misrepresentation of their work.

    The research that has been done on actual parenting by homosexual partners is showing there is “no risk to children as a result of growing up in a family with [one] or more gay parents.” The American Academy of Pediatrics did a very thorough analysis

    Not that I think posting all this will actually help to change any attitudes or beliefs by those whom I consider most in need of this information.

  • Rikard

    When citizens are denied equal rights it becomes a civil matter. Decisions defining those rights have continued since the writing of the U.S. constitution. Mormons are entitled to their beliefs and entitled to act on them. We are entitled to hold them up to ridicule for their backward, superstitious beliefs. They are in historical fact a persecuted people and they dearly love being martyrs (now that they don’t actually get lynched or tarred and feathered that is). Many honestly can’t imagine that the squishy thing they are standing on is the neck of a more down trodden minority. As for all the attempts here to distract the conversation to purrient topics let me assure Sick Oaf Al that we not only can we reproduce, but do so frequently. How many queer mormon guys do I know with more than four kids, six kids, seven? Too many. We don’t expect humanity to pin their hopes for the future on us, but gay families are a fact of life. Wether you legalize gay marriage, or adoption we will breed, partner and nuture our families, our multi gender families. The silly notion that there is some gay force field that keeps genders apart is hilarious. When a family fails the bigotry challenge and proves to be open minded, truthful and trusting of each other they involve themselves in each others lives. Think any son of mine would lack a hetero male role model? Not with all the big game hunters, sports fanatics and car nuts at Sunday dinner. Think a little girl would lack an estrogen fueled influence? Not a chance, women out number the men in my family. So thanks for all your concern about the future of the species. If you want to eradicate us your best bet is to figure out the biological triggers for homosexuality and set out on a eugenics program to eliminate us in the womb. With any luck you could eclipse Hitler as the greatest villian in history. As for how perverted we are, do just a tiny bit of reasearch. Hetero perverts have us outnumbered and do everything we do to both sexes. So save your broad brush.


    Don’t feed Mormon sympathizing trolls like sickofitall and rodney, bleed them!!! The Mormon is a money cult an the aforementioned stooges are their lackeys. Instead of our anger offer them our pity OR put a boot in their asses; both are appropriate solutions.


    Don’t feed Mormon sympathizing trolls like sickofitall and rodney, bleed them!!! The Mormon faith is a money cult and the aforementioned stooges are their lackeys. Instead of our anger offer them our pity OR put a boot in their asses; both are appropriate solutions.


    Sorry for the double post, wanted to be perfectly clear to the christers.

  • naghanenu

    Oh please…Dustin Black narrates. Who the hell is he??? Who cares? Gays are once again playing into the hands of religious groups. Why do you always do this??????

    Do you really think the Christians will be shaking over this piece of ego tripping crap….they will be shit happy!!! Becos this proves all they’ve been saying all along

  • John

    Boy, the Mormon Internet Monitoring Group certainly has it’s knickers in a twist over this one. All of these comments in this Queerty post demonstrates quite clearly just how concerned they are with this documentary. Mormon propagandists are in high gear trying to squelch this one!!

  • Elle

    God bless those silly Mormons because they will need it when the limelight shines on their imperfections.

    Seriously though, growing up Mormon, I could never figure out how another’s actions that don’t affect me actually affect me. If I don’t like something, I don’t do it. It’s that simple.

    I honestly can’t wrap my head around the hatred. I don’t get involved in other straight couple’s unions, so why the hell are they trying to have a threesome with my best friend and his boyfriend? How selfish of them to think they have a right to tell adults who they should love and how. I didn’t go up to them during their ceremony in the temple and say that God told me their love isn’t real. It’s not my place and it’s damn disrespectful, even though they’ll probably end up in a loveless marriage and eventually divorce like 50% of all straight couples.

    Every word they have against gay people, I have a study to disprove their ignorance. When will they end their bigotry and let it be?

  • alan brickman

    Dustin’s back to speed….being a hypocrite and full of himself again…

  • Ozymandias

    Well, I’ll definitely go and see it.

  • John

    It is important to note that the executive producer, narrator, & producer/director/writer all have personal problems with the LDS Church. These aren’t objective journalists making a documentary, but three individuals who although raised Mormon have gone their own way.

    Unfortunately, they have a vendetta against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and for Dustin Lance Black, Reed Cowan, and Bruce Bastian this “documentary” is an opportunity to take a swipe at the religious institution of their youth.

  • B

    Tom wrote (incorrectly), “It is not true that the ‘influence’ of the Mormon Church made a difference in the California election.”

    The reality is that the Mormon church had a major influence by getting its members to donate millions of dollars to help get Proposition Eight passed. That money was used to fund a campaign based on lies on top of lies.

    Tom then tries to blame Blacks. In fact, a careful statistical analysis showed that it was not Blacks, but some religious types who were the problem (with a higher fraction of Blacks being religious than the population as a whole) and the exit polls showing an abnormally large Black vote in favor of Proposition Eight were misleading (most of the increase most likely being due to sampling error).

  • Brian

    Religion made homosexuals “wrong.” Turnabout is fair play.

  • B

    rodney, in an attempt to white-wash the Mormons wrote, “The message of Reed Cowan is that my sexual lusts and homosexual community clout are more important than my family relations. You may not see it that way, but anyone with a moral compass does.”

    The people who lack a moral compass are Mormon families who would ostracize a member of that family merely for producing a documentary that merely showed the consequences of the Mormon church’s actions in a specific political campaign.

    If the Mormon church doesn’t want criticism, it should stay out of politics. As Harry Truman once said, “If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.”

  • Mike

    Wonderful, the barebacking, sex crazed homo amung us will narrate it, so they can add fuel to what horrible people we are. Way to go Dustin!

  • Wayne

    I think it will be a great film. The LDS church needs to be exposed for their homophobic bigotry. The church has a well known history of racism, we need to make sure that everyone knows that their bigotry doesn’t just stop with the hatred of people of color. Their bigotry knows no bounds (almost like thier hypocrisy. 14 Wives? And they want to throw stones at gays? HA!)

  • Wayne

    He he!.You can tell by how many Mormons have their magic underwear twisted into a knot, that this movie has them running scared already. The bigots are like roaches when you turn on the lights! Love It!!!! I hope the film takes Sundance by storm.

  • B

    Brian, staying “on message”, wrote, “Religion made homosexuals ‘wrong.’ Turnabout is fair play.” Dumping on the Mormon
    church for supporting Prop 8 by getting members to donate millions of dollars to get Prop 8 passed is “fair play” given the nature of politics. Lumping every single religion out there in with the Mormons is not. How much money did you say the Buddhists raised to support it, for example? Are they going around preaching against homosexuality? How about Shintoism? Do they even have sermons?

    What about the Wiccans? According to they have one rule called “the Wiccan Rede”, which “permits Wiccans to engage in any carefully considered action, as long as it harms nobody, including themselves.” It goes on to state that “The Rede is reinforced by the Threefold Law. This is the belief that any harm or good that a Wiccan does to someone else comes back to hurt or benefit them — magnified three times over.”

    It’s one thing to think all religions are wacky. It’s another to treat them like “the devil incarnate” and attribute to them some sort of supernatural power to cast some sort of spell on gays, which is what Brian is really saying whether he knows it or not.

  • Ron

    I think the movie will be very interesting. It’s not going to be terribly neutral, this is true, but it will likely contain lots of golden nuggets about LDS that aren’t common knowledge. Organizations like LDS and Scientology really aren’t worried about being portrayed negatively, they’re worried about appearing bizarre, which they will, when their beliefs are exposed to a public that hasn’t been properly indoctrinated first.

  • Brian

    The “taboo” of not touching “religion” is over. Fair-minded people understand that “religion made homosexuality wrong” and they continue to lead all political actions against LGBT people.

    Until we confront the continued teaching of most Christians that we are ‘wrong, sinful and deviant” we will never be equal. It isn’t about the granting of “civil rights,” it is about re-branding homosexuality. Religion branded us and that must stop.

    The good news is that Christians are divided and many denominations are splitting over the treatment of LGBT persons. It isn’t enough to be “accepted” or “tolerated,” there is NOTHING wrong with us.

    The Conservative Christians (literal interpretation)need to be identified and marginalized. They have a bigoted belief system and they do not believe in equality. They are the enemy.

    While this Documentary suggests that “religion needs to stay out of politics,” it isn’t that simple. ALL LGBT persons need to reject the idea that we are wrong. It is a religious lie. The majority of our fellow Americans will join us in our fight for equality, but we must not treat religion as a taboo or something we are unable or unwilling to talk about. The conversation about religion and LGBT must take place and we must enroll the Christians that believe in human dignity, fairness and equality.

  • FlopsyMopsyCT

    To Sickofitall:

    Regarding your comment, #11, Richard Posner, a very well-respected judge on the 7th Circuit, has written on the issue of whether homosexual influence creates homosexuality. He stated that there is absolutely no evidence remotely suggesting homosexuality is a learned behavior; the mere presence of homosexual influence in a child’s upbringing or in an adult’s life has no outcome on whether that person will adopt a homosexual identity. Thus, I think your concerns of children being exposed to homosexual are unnecessary and unsupported.

    As for your comment specifically to Alexa, actually, the vast majority of current studies conducted have shown that, of all three couple-types, two women do the best job in creating happy, healthy children with a proper upbringing, not the traditional male/female parent regime. The most recent unbiased study that I’ve seen (three years ago) showed that far more children brought up by two women (not necessarily lesbian couples) fared much better than children brought up in households headed by a male and female. The percentages of children in female same-sex units was significantly higher than those reared by opposite sex units, by somewhere between 20 and 30 percent. I would probably guess that the studies you are referring to are heavily biased because they were most likely commissioned by organizations set on “finding” statistics that supported their cause.

    Unfortunately, according to this study, two men were found to be the least successful in rearing children. However, the study stated that the sample of two men raising was difficult to obtain, simply because there are not nearly as many male same-sex households (not necessarily homosexual) as female sex-same households and male-female households.

    Unfortunately, the study did not look into single parent households and how those children measure up against same-sex households, which would have been very interesting.

    Also, to Sickofitall, while I appreciate your input on the board, I think you must understand that you are pushing a religiously based argument into a realm where religious teaching is not reputable, binding authority. It really does not do any good to assert religiously based arguments to groups of people who do not accept them as authoritative. It would be like the US imposing its domestic laws on a foreign country.

  • SoylentDiva

    Boy are the Morg in a tizzy over this. I can safely say my wife and I will see it. Expose the SOBs!

  • That is all.

    LOL. Yeaaaaah right. The Gay Agenda marches on. So do the Teapartiers dolls.

    California is not Eden it’s a conservative state, and way overpriced.

  • B

    Brian, after repeating his mantra, wrote, “The conversation about religion and LGBT must take place and we must enroll the Christians that believe in human dignity, fairness and equality.”
    You won’t “enroll” the ones who are reasonable by blaming religion in general when it is a fraction of religious people who are causing the problem. The reasonable ones think the fundamentalists are pretty wacky to begin with. Don’t insult them by trying to lob them in with the fire and brimstone crowd. It’s bad salesmanship.

  • Rob Moore

    I still think we need a good riot. Burn a few of their churches and temples so they know what it is like to be hated.

    I don’t allow their minions on my property, I hate the fact that my tax dollars subsidise their existence, by paying for the roads their zombies use to get access to their buildings, the water they use to flush the toilets in their dens of iniquity, even paying the salaries of police officers they use to stop traffic so they can get out of their parking lots. I resent that after two centuries of distance, we are suddenly stuck with subsidising them with faith-based initiatives. They promise they won’t proselytize even though their publicly funded programs generally take place on church properties.

    Churches, synagogues, temples, kingdom halls, and mosques are all centers of evil power.

  • naghanenu

    This doc is not going to do squat to mormons. You people seem to underestimate the power of faith…

  • Julia

    Let me start by saying I am a Mormon. I have read your posts and most of it is just hate, on both sides, but when I start to read between the lines there is a very common thread, equality. I believe and was raised that equality for all, no matter race, religion, or sexuality. I have family members and dear friends who are Gay, and I don’t care. We have had several discussions about prop 8, and have come to understand where n=both sides lay. People who have a long time commitment to each other should have every legal backing to help protect that union, but not at the cost of someone else. I believe we can and should fight for equal rights for everyone. Gays, straights, men, women, religious nuts, white, black, green and purple. I think we need to start by respecting and understanding where each other is coming from, and having open communications. Every union deserves equal rights, and every religion is free to practice and believe as they choose. We need to find a common ground where no one is being vilified, or asked to compromise their beliefs.

  • romeo

    @ Julia #51: you wrote:

    “People who have a long time commitment to each other should have every legal backing to help protect that union, but not at the cost of someone else.”

    Julia, you do realize that what you’re saying leaves no common ground? If our unions would compromise your beliefs, then that is that, and there’s no common ground. Compromise is the only way possible.

  • Julia

    I agree in compromising, in finding a middle ground, and am open to hearing suggestions. The issue with me is this, you a have a devout Christian who is also a judge of the land. He/she is fighting to up hold the laws, now a law comes that compromises their beliefs to the core. What do they do? Damn their soul(in their minds) or leave a profession they love and worked so hard for? I just want everyone to see and feel the full spectrum and wish we could find a way for everyone to be at peace with themselves. I guess I am just wishing and hoping for something that may never happen, but I am a dreamer.

  • Wen

    #53, Julia, the compromise you will have to make (well, the devout Christian man in your example) is to have your beliefs, but not impose them on others. That’s it. Thats the whole point of how a democracy works. Compromise, time and again. I think it was Obama that said in a speech in a church (?) that many religious need to learn to compromise and not think their beliefs are absolute etc. I fully agree with him that that is what many religious need to learn, atheists (to name a group, but for the sake of clarity) are in general much better at understanding this and implementing it and knowing you cant impose on other’s freedoms. You will have to find a way to have peace with yourself through compromising. There is no other way in a democracy.

  • Julia

    #54 Wen
    So I compromise by not imposing my beliefs on you, right, which I try really hard not to do. What are you compromising? That is how I feel a true democracy works, give and take both ways.

  • Wen

    @55, it depends on the subject. You want homosexuals to compromise on marriage? At who’s costs is gay marriage and what is the cost exactly to yourself?

  • Wafuu

    Have you seen the film? No? Then you can’t judge honestly, only dishonestly. But then, you’re accustomed to that, aren’t you?

  • Wafuu

    Chris Matthews said it best: “Young people change, old people die.”

  • Gordon Hinckley

    Don’t you people know that in the Journal of
    Discourses, Brigham Young stated that several types of sins required the shedding of blood. Some sins required the shedding of blood until death became the final result.
    Bruce R. McKonkie also said that if the law would allow it then the Mormoms would practice it now. That is why murderers are shot so that their blood can be shed to atone for there sins here in Utah
    According to Brigham Young breaking temple covenants or leaving the Mormon church after taking temple vows requires the shedding of blood unto death.
    So I wonder what Brigham would have to say about all this stuff with Gay Marriages?
    And what do you people think of that?

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