Certain website names notwithstanding, the word “queer” is polarizing. For some LGBTQ+ individuals, it’s a reclaimed badge of honor, a political statement, a declaration of attraction without binaries. For others, it’s still a homophobic slur, a weaponized word that can reopen years-old wounds.
When one Reddit user asked others what “queer” means to them, he clarified he wasn’t referring to the derogatory sense of the term. But some commenters can’t see the word any other way.
Here’s a selection of responses, edited for clarity:
“It meant I was about to get my butt beat by a homophobe. I despise that word…”
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
“I’m 33, and for me, it’s always meant bullying. Thankfully, I was never beaten up by someone saying it, but like the f-word, it always cut me like a knife whenever I heard it.”
“I guess it’s just all-encompassing. When I tried coming out to my brother when I was a teen, he asked, ‘You think you may be queer?’ It was the first time I heard the word used in a non-derogatory way.”
“Odd.”
Related: Gay or queer? Redditors sound off on the delineation
“Not straight and/or not cis”
“Queer to me means anyone who doesn’t identify as straight.”
“I don’t mind it. It’s better than being called a faggot or a fairy, but still, I don’t know.”
“Queer to me means, like, nonspecifically sexually and gender fluid, an all-encompassing term that doesn’t keep someone stuck in definite boundaries… When someone tries to use it as a slur, I genuinely don’t have a reaction to it ‘cause that’s how removed I am from its usage in that sense.”
“It means faggot to me. Not gay but faggot.”
“I feel no empowerment from it, I don’t like how it sounds, and I don’t identify with the word. Perhaps it sounds extreme, but I’m less fazed by a person referring to me by a slur about my mixed heritage than another LGBT person referring to us as queer in its modern understanding. Make of that what you will.”
Related: Watch: “This Is What Queer Looks Like”
“When I think of queer, my mind automatically connects to stereotypes of being overly feminine as a guy or masculine as a girl. Even though I know this isn’t entirely true, I find myself having to manually correct my brain settings every time the term is mentioned.”
“I am not queer; I’m gay. Queer is an offensive word. I dislike how academics and non-homosexuals use it all the time, when it seems that a lot of gay men aren’t down with reclaiming it. If someone describes themselves as queer, I assume they are heterosexual but want to seem interesting. Or trans.”
“Queer to me, denotes ‘peculiarity.’”
“I’ve always used ‘queer’ in the ‘take back the word’ sense. Also, I refer to myself as queer when I’m being very specific about how I label my identity. Although I identify as a gay man in a general sense, if I got very specific about what is going on inside myself. ‘Queer’ is a more accurate term, i.e. how I feel about my gender and who I’m attracted to.”
“Queer means sexual outlaw to me because in the ’70s that is what all of us were, considered by society. Except for the lesbians because they didn’t exist yet. [Sarcasm.]”
MISTERJETT
use it if you want to, but i don’t.
kevininbuffalo
That’s a sensible answer. I use it, I prefer it as it seems to suit me better.
jayceecook
I agree that is a fair way to look at the situation.
Hank31
The problem is that a certain group of people feel entitled to refer to LGB people, as a group, as “queer.” That means they aren’t only using that word to describe themselves. They are using it against all of us, without our consent. This is what needs to be challenged whenever it happens.
LeBlevsez
Have at it Hank31. Those challenges will lead to fewer invitations. Better for Queers everywhere.
Hank31
@LeBlevsez Oh, noes! I won’t be invited to the next “queer” event, where all the super-cool effeminate, clinically depressed pseudo-men with nose rings hang out! FOMO!
cliche guevara
Hank apparently has no sense of self awareness or irony.
How many comments have made in which you define trans people in was they didn’t consent to? You can’t seem to help yourself and now you are going full on hysterical because of some perceived slight. I can clear it up for you, being queer is about dignity and self respect. No one is using the word queer to refer to you, you don’t fit the definition.
Chrisk
cliche guevara
Rim shot. Ha.Ha What do you want to bet that Hank is a Republican? Hypocrisy is pretty much a requirement for joining.
Sqwoah
“Queer” to me indicates more about a person’s political identity than it does about their sexual identity
Bosch
“Queer is an offensive word.”
The problem with making a word derogatory, is that the concept also becomes derogatory.
And this problem has happened to a few words the past two decades.
PDX man
But queer men have made it ‘not’ derogatory
JClark
The term “queer” used to bother me because of old wounds, but not so much anymore. I suppose “reclaiming” a word can work. I still don’t use it myself, though. Maybe I’m getting there.
But I do agree that it would be nice to have an all-encompassing word for the entire non-straight community. I wouldn’t pick “queer” for that word, but I don’t get to make the rules. The current alphabet soup is confusing and sets us up for ridicule.
NateOcean
How about “gay”.
JClark
I’m all for “gay,” but the consensus seems to be otherwise.
Phillip
Being an older gay man, “queer” was always used by straights to demean a gay person just like the “F-word” did. I don’t use it because it still has a negative meaning to me though younger generations seem to be comfortable with it. Hearing it come out of a homophobe’s mouth immediately turns it back into a derision.
Openminded
I’m with you Phillip. This would have been a good topic to ask commenters to include their age, although one can generally identify the age group thru their replies.
When I was younger, here in the South, “Queer” was typically drawn out into a 2- syllable word in a tone of total disgust and contempt. No matter how one speaks it today, that’s still how my mind hears it.
Mack
I agree one hundred percent. To me, as an older gay, I find the word offensive.
dadhc
I’m 66 and I use it. It means I am myself, with no one to answer to. I can like who I want, and love who I want. My children aren’t comfortable with me using it, but it doesn’t matter, I’ve earned to right to be John-centric, to love animals more than people, and to choose how I want to spend my pleasant life.
Cam
Not a huge fan but much easier to use than LGBTQIA2spirit etc… in conversation.
BigJohnSF
“Reclaiming” hate speech is a fantasy, pure and simple. Nobody told the homophobes that they aren’t supposed to use this word in a derogatory way any more. The only reason for gay people to attempt to adopt this label is in order to include transgender people. “Gay” = same-sex attractions; “transgender” does not mean that at all. There’s really no community that includes gay people and transgender people; they are separate communities. “Queer” is the pretense that there is such a community. Sorry kids; it’s still just hate speech.
Thad
Tell that to the rappers constantly using “the n word”. THAT bothers me more. Do they really wanna go back to the ole plantation? There are too many bigots still using these words in an unreclaimed sense.
Erik
And the rappers attempt to reclaim the n word has only perpetuated anti-black racism. Overt racism is actually worse than it was before rap.
Hate speech can’t be reclaimed.
Cam
@BigJohnSF
Except homophobes don’t use the word that much anymore.
Prax07
I just see “queer” as an overall negative term. I also don’t see myself as “queer”, so I don’t use the term at all
Thad
I hate “queer” as a noun.
Man About Town
I remember a scene in the updated “Tales of the City” where the supremely untalented Ellen Page (pre-Elliot) as the supremely irritating Shawna said (re the word queer) “We’ve taken it back.” I shouted at the screen “Speak for yourself, bitch!”
Mundo
He is speaking for himself and for me.
Chrisk
Must be why Hollywood keeps giving him roles.
jayceecook
I recognize that to some folks it is an offensive term and would never use it to describe anybody specific. I personally identify as Queer so for myself it’s perfectly fine. I do use it at times to refer to the LGBTQIA+++++ community because as others have said it is a little easier.
Growing up it was never a term I ever heard somebody use as a slur. It was always “sissy”, “fagg0t”, or “f@g”. Predominantly the last two. I wasn’t aware it was a slur until I got older and started to see it used as such in films, TV shows, books, etc.
What I don’t like or tolerate though are the people who tell me (and others) I shouldn’t or can’t use that term to define myself because they see it as offensive. Or they try to belittle those that do which I see some folks here are already doing. If the word makes you uncomfortable I’m sorry but we all have things that make us uncomfortable but we have to learn to live with it. For example, I hate the terms “cis” and “cisgender”. I don’t like people calling me that and in a one on one situation I will inform them of that fact. However I know in the larger, societal sense it is a widely accepted and used term. So when I see it being used in a general way I just accept it.
Hank31
Jayceecook: “I call gay people queer even when they don’t want to be called queer. But I don’t like it when other people try to impose their labels on me.”
Cam
I love how you got called out for being one of multiple troll screenames and so you switched to another one to dissaagree with yourself thinking it would give the names cover. LOL
jayceecook
@Cam Nice to know I’m living rent free in your mind. I have never been exposed as having multiple usernames nor do I even have them. That is some fantasy you keep harping on because you’re a sad, pathetic loser with nothing substantial or even remotely intelligent to offer in the comments. It’s funny how you think of yourself as a “troll hunter” yet, 1) you rarely call out some of the most obvious trolls here and 2) the comments you do leave are by definition trolling. You’re irrelevant.
Cam
@jayceecook
Awwww, sweetie, it doesn’t take long for one of your screenames to recycle something I’ve pointed out about you and accuse me. Maybe you should pretend that some of your names are better at trolling than others.
As far as “Living rent free”, LOL, yeah, you have multiple screenames, all geared to attacking LGBTQ people, you try to steal regular posters screenames, and post constantly, but yeah, you aren’t the one obsessed.
Your troll game is sad and weak.
jayceecook
@Cam My stars, what the phuck is wrong with you?! You are seriously mental. First I was a troll. Now I’m a troll who steals other people’s usernames to attack LGBTQ+ folks. Are you phucking serious dude?! Where is your independently verified proof? Let me reiterate, I. DO. NOT. HAVE. MORE. THAN. ONE. USERNAME. One is way more than I need for Q. I also have never stolen somebody’s username. You say that to other people here as well all the time. At this point you’d think there is just you and one other person commenting on this sh*t show of a site.
You’re not just two French fries short of a Happy Meal you’re just an empty bag. Seriously, you have lost the plot. The only thing here that is sad and weak is you. You need to take some time away to chill and center your life or something. Maybe draw yourself a warm, relaxing bath, fire up YouTube, and listen to some of Graham’s cringy poetry. Don’t forget to have a bunch of electronics plugged in around the tub when you do.
Ronbo
You’ll recognize Cam as the person with their head down. Not because they are depressed; but, because their brain is 25X bigger than everyone else’s.
It’s why they keep posting, and posting, and insulting and accusing and condemning. As Jesus said, ‘he who is without sin, call yourself Cam and have at it’.
Diplomat
I find defining oneselt as “queer” offensive. The word is coined as negative, it cannot be overhauled. Nor was it a word to be reclaimed as the gay community never owned it. Very irrational beings that are pushing this rhetoric. It’s as irrational as trying to flip they them into singular.
We don’t see the black community calling themselves nig+++gers, or asians chi+++nks etc etc. A cowpie will never be apple strudel and those that back such logic do the majority or the gay community a great disservice.
Bosch
It’s not as much about “reclaiming” the word as it is about stripping it of its power. Bigots only use certain words because they know they’re painful. Stop being offended by it, and bigots will stop using it.
Openminded
Everyone would be a lot better off if they could learn to not let certain words trigger them. Queer is one of those middle ground words right now, but was once a universally demeaning word. In a perfect world, it would be wonderful if those affected by the F word, the N word, or any other word for that matter, could simply refuse to be triggered and just laugh back at the offenders ignorance.
Personally, I’m old enough to prefer not being called Queer, but I’m also old enough to know that different generations have their own preferences. This topic would be a good one for commenters to post their age to show how different generations can prioritize the word. I wonder how many here can envision a time that “F*gg*t” could become acceptable. I don’t understand the term “Reclaimed”. To me reclaimed means you want to take something back that you cherished or was fond of. I can’t recall a time when Queer was ever embraced by the LGBT community prior to this day of cancelling, new pronouns, etc.. Long story short, if the word fits you, use it and go for it, if not, don’t let it trigger you, but neither do you have to allow it to identify you. Strangely for me, I’ll punch your lights out faster for calling me a Jerk than I will calling me queer or even F*gg*t.
jayceecook
Okay, why don’t you go first? I’m genuinely curious.
Heywood Jablowme
“Everyone would be a lot better off if they could learn to not let certain words trigger them.” “Strangely for me, I’ll punch your lights out faster for calling me a Jerk than I will calling me queer or even F*gg*t.”
That’s a contradiction, you jerk. Lol.
Cam
OMG, you tried it with these screenames too!
LOL!!!!!
ScottOnEarth
It’s just a word but those who say they are “reclaiming” it confound me. LGTBQ+ people never used or “owned” the word to describe themselves in the first place. It was meant to be derogatory and dehumanizing for many years, and never had a good connotation…..so, what is being reclaimed?
Heywood Jablowme
I remember wondering about that in the early ’90s. It rhymed in the Act Up chant “We’re here, we’re queer, get used to it!” but did it start there, or earlier? Academia maybe?
dhmonarch89
what it means to me- getting shoved into lockers, getting chased down and run over on a bike by Darren Bufton, having a group of guys block my path and dare me to pass them and a steady stream of shout outs using this word to put me down at least twice a week from 6th- 12th grade.
barryaksarben
the F word was so much worse to me and I am in my mid sixties as it was hurled at me so many times but suddenly one day someone yelled it at me and I felt nothing. I had reached a point where I knew what I was and what others thought just didnt interest me one bit. All this talk of taking words back makes me think of the ridiculousness of the deplorables demanding the rainbow back. I say they can have it – we used it the correct way and they wont be able to ever use it in any other way
Hank31
No one cares.
Donston
I do remember resenting the use of “queer” when I was in my teens and early 20s. Now, I use it occasionally. I don’t feel entirely comfortable using it. But it doesn’t bother me nearly as much. And I get its purpose.
Language is weird. Words evolve. And people use words as they see fit. “Queer” nowadays seems to be most widely used as simply meaning not entirely inherently heterosexual and/or not entirely “gender normal”. In that sense, at least 30% of the population is probably “queer”. So, it’s not something unique. While I’ve noticed this past year that a lot of folks are starting to use gay/lesbian as code for simply “not ‘straight” or code for having same-sex leanings or code for being in a same-sex relationship or a non-hetero relationship, rather than meaning homosexual. While folks of course use bi, pan, fluid and straight however they feel. Sense of self, sexuality, gender, sociology, psychology, ego, love, commitments, politics, money are all complicated and individual things, and they affect how language is used by an individual as well as how words generally evolve. That is what that is.
I understand that certain words can trigger people. But folks also need to not let their own insecurities and/or traumas lead to being a-holes. Whether you embrace a word or not, that’s an individualistic thing and should not equate to being rude to others.
Openminded
As I’ve stated in previous post here, I’m not a big fan of the word Queer. That said, I too find myself lately using the word in haste when I want to simply point out anyone who is in the “not straight” group. I pretty much interchange it with LGBTQ. I’m sure some would scold me for misusing the word but I don’t feel like it is using it in a negative or hurtful way.
skeldare
This is part of the problem with the word queer. It has a different definition for everyone.
jayceecook
It really doesn’t to most of the people who use it as an identifier. To those that don’t it does get muddled. Some of that is generational.
Honestly though, you can say that about all identity politics. I remember when I identified as bisexual. There was debate on what that actually meant. Some saw bisexual as excluding trans men and women while others saw it as being inclusive of them. It still is a debate within the community. Then there are gay for pay sex workers. They identify as straight, have romantic and sexual partners that are of the opposite sex, live a pretty heterosexual life other than having sex with members of the same sex for money. But A LOT of folks would say they aren’t really straight.
Identity politics is a double edged sword. On the one hand it can be empowering and bring a sense of community. On the other it can also be feel somewhat oppressive and isolating.
Labels to me are helpful but not something that is stagnant and universal. People who get hung up on them remind me of the story of Rumpelstiltskin. It’s like if they have them and know them they gain some sort of power. As I get older I realize I just don’t give a sh*t about them anymore.
Fahd
I think the word has changed over time. I don’t use it at all because I don’t have good associations with it personally, but if people want to use it as a form of empowerment, bully for them. .
deann
I understand that a lot of people has “reclaimed” the word queer but not everybody has and are still triggered by the word. If you want to identify as queer , you have the right to do so and it is perfectly valid but if somebody told you that they are not comfortable to be called queer you should respect there boundaries and not call them that. Some comments here say that if you are not comfortable with the word queer , then you are the problem. That is very rude. If someone say that they have no problem with other people using the word “queer” to identify themselves but don’t want be called/referred as queer and don’t want to identify as such, then, where is the problem? You can’t force people to be comfortable with a word that is triggering for them (whatever the reason may be). It is cruel to tell people that it is their fault if they are triggered by a word ( a slur in this case) and it is a cope out to tell that we should desensitizing ourself from homophobic slur in order to not be affected by them, we are human, words hurt, we cannot tell people ” Get over with your trauma and be comfortable with the word queer”.
Donston
The thing is, it’s not really about reclaiming anything. “Queer” was picked up as an all-encompassing word for “non hetero” or non “gender normal”. It was more about the convenience of the word than about politics and trying to “reclaim” something. Also, “queer” has been used widely as a non derogatory word for decades. It just became common on the states this past decade. But it’s been around forever as a self-descriptor. While outside of “older” generations, “queer” is no longer even used as a derogatory term. “Gay” and of course “fag” are more widely used as a put down in a today’s world. So, at this point, the “anti queer” brigade just come off like older generational stuff.
My thing is, if you don’t want to be referred to as “queer” that’s fine. But there’s also a lot of people who automatically get rude and bitchy and preachy over the word, and that’s not necessary. While there are a large percentage of dudes who resent “queer” because they don’t want to be grouped with people who have gender dimensions. It’s not about their traumas so much as their femme-phobia or trans-phobia. But yes, folks should be allowed to embrace or not embrace whatever word they see fit.
Ultimately, I’m kinda over identity politics in general. Everyone is gonna embrace whatever they want. Sexuality is a very individual thing. Ego, psychology, sociology, culture, personal motivations will always affect what people present and embrace. And the gender, sexual, romantic, comfort, emotion, commitment wide and varied. Unless someone is obviously actively manipulating or being problematic, let folks embrace whatever words and keep it pushing.
THAT Steve
It’s not my word of choice. I still remember it being a slur. However, I do see queer community as being the whole LGBTQ while I personally am of the gay community as my subgroup.
Hank31
The false premise of this piece and others like it) is that the only objection to “queer” comes from those who are botherred by its use as a slur. These same dissenters are often portrayed as old and burdened by the usage of the word in the distant past. In fact, the vast majority of LGB people reject queer as an identity label and that includes the overwhelming majority of LGB youth. There isn’t a single survey of LGBs showing anything higher than 6% using “queer” to self-identify, and more surveys show the rate to be in the 1 to 1.5% range.
“Queer” is not an identity of the young. It was created by middle-aged and old people. People who were young in 1989 and 1990, when “queer” came into fashion. It’s an identity used by a tiny sliver of LGBs of various ages, but who have in common a desire to revel in their sense of alienation and marginalization. An identity grounded in hostility towards one’s society, community, neighbors and family and in conflict with societal norms is not a healthy identity. Further, the term, which has a postmodern origin, lacks a stable meaning. It continues to expand. It now encompasses norm-transgressing heterosexuals, cross-dressers, fetishism, etc.
Donston
No one gives a shit about the opinion of someone who’s used multiple handles to talk about how guys need to be act “normal” (aka “gay” guys should try to be “straight passing” and should present themselves as traditionally “masculine”). No one gives a shit about someone whose every other post promotes hate, femme-phobia and trans-phobia. So, whatever you have to say is automatically null and void. What’s scary is that I used to kinda have the same views as you (though not as much of a judgmental a-hole). Thank god I grew out of that. Also, not everyone who embraces “queer” are trying to be transgressive. Most of the people I know who embrace it just see it as an all encompassing term, especially if they have dimensions/fluidity in their sexuality, gender, where they are in the orientation spectrum. Your theory may have had some truth about a decade ago. That’s not the case anymore. Catch up and grow up.
iminheatlikeacat
In this regard, I find that LGBs are pushovers (or perhaps too welcoming to the point of meaningless) when it comes to the all-is-welcome queer umbrella. A female co-worker invited us fellow workers, in all serious, to her queer wedding. She describes herself non-binary and getting married to her asexual male fiancé. So, a marriage between a man and a woman. I have no idea how this counts as a queer wedding and have no desire to find out (i find her annoying and won’t be going).
Be who you like, support and “ally” who you want, but don’t try to co-opt, or worse, speak out on behalf on, or in forefront of the *actual* community you are claiming to be a part of (which this woman does, a lot, and loudly), because it deems it all tiredly performative and actually, rather downright offensive. Rachel Dolzeal was hauled over the coals for what she did but LGB’s seem pushover enough to let heterosexual people encroach en-masse into our community. We all know how and why it’s happened. But we’re not allowed to address it. If you want to be kind and welcome cuckoo’s, then fine, but do well to remember what newly hatched cuckoos do to the native birds in the nest.
Donston
iminheatlikeacat, what I’m saying or even what hateful, tired Hank is saying has almost nothing to do with what you’re talking about. So, I don’t even know why you chose these posts to respond to.
If you see “queer” as simply meaning that someone isn’t completely heterosexual or that they have gender dimensions, then a huge percentage of people fit in. As I’ve mentioned many times, at least 30% of people probably fit into that definition of “queer”. The problem with comparing race to “queerness” is that there’s no way to prove the latter. Anyone can embrace whatever identity they feel, and it’s hard to completely argue with them. Sexuality, fluidity, gender dimensions, love, the gender, sexual, romantic, emotional investment, comfort, commitment spectrum is so wide and varied.
However, there is a thin line between folks trying to be honest and express themselves authentically and people trying to be leeches and saying/doing whatever for validation. Many people do cross that line. And some of those people who cross that line are gay presenting people who only have homo relationships. Leeches and “cookoo’s come in all forms. While sociology, ego, money, opportunity, mental health will always be big determining factors in what a lot of people do and how they present themselves. I do completely agree that no matter your inherent dimensions sexually or gender wise, hetero marriage/commitment is still hetero marriage/commitment. You can still be real about your dimensions, struggles and journey while not being a leech and while accepting that your hetero commitment or hetero ambitions limits your perspective and limits just how much you should be hyping up your “queerness”.
The focus needs to always be on people keeping it real, confronting their struggles and being with/loving who they want to live and be with. A lot of people have completely missed that goal because they’re focused on their insecurities, identity politics, fitting into whatever sociological fracture, looking for validation, attention, ego boosts. If we focused on what we should be focused on a lot of issues and tensions would dissipate quite a bit.
jayceecook
@Donston I’m applauding that takedown of Hank31 so hard right now.
Toofie
Nice job Donston!
iminheatlikeacat
“If you see “queer” as simply meaning that someone isn’t completely heterosexual or that they have gender dimensions, then a huge percentage of people fit in.”
And that’s good for them, but when “queer” is synonymous with being gay, hence the LGB+TQ+IA++ various different tags that crop up it makes (IMO) a mockery. Being LGB (same s*x attracted, both s*x attracted) isn’t (rather, shouldn’t) be a group where “people that feel like they don’t fit in, can fit in”, same/both-sexuality isn’t an “othering” everybody’s-welcome group. It’s not Glee! That’s my personal problem with the usage of queer. People can use it how they want but I find it an affront, and a hijack, that it’s now normal to see a LGBTQ+ tag when the last two and whatever the + includes are largely heterosexual (don’t get me started on “A”). I just find it rather sad, and like I said, pushover behaviour. I suppose it also depends if one sees “gay” as meaning same s*x attracted, or sees “gay” as meaning not heterosexual. I feel, if the former, one is probably more opposed to the word queer whilst those in the latter have no problem with it. I’m in the former.
Hank31
@Donston “Let me spend several hundred words ranting about how I don’t give a poop about your comment!” lool!
@iminheatlikeacat You are spot on, my friend. LGBs were a soft target and that is why trans activists targeted us for a takeover via the invention of “LGBT people” in the 1990s. It worked. Once they got in, more letters, numerals and special characters followed. In several iterations of “LGBT,” LGBs combined are the minority (outnumered, for example, by “allies”). The whole point of naming ourselves in the first place was to be able to talk about ourselves and to identify our needs and interests, and we can’t even do that anymore. Note that there is no other minority which has allowed itself to be colonized in this way.
As for the expansion of “queer,” it now not only encompasses transgressive or norm-defying heterosexuals, but also people, places and things which are not directly related to sexuality or gender. For example, in academia, you may now read about queer bio-sciences, queer time, queer math, queer agriculture, and queer urban planning. i actually support this. The more the term expands and is used in many other contexts, the more it loses its association with LGBs, the better off LGB people will be.
Donston
I wrote those thorough, nuanced posts not for you but for people who think similar as you who might read this. “Hank”, sweetie, you’re not saying anything outside of “I don’t want to be grouped in with “freaks”, which is a thin veil for internalized phobias, queer-phobia, femme-phobia, trans-phobia. Never mind that many folks who are completely “gender normal” and “straight passing” are comfortable with being viewed as “queer”. So, your argument doesn’t hold much weight outside of continuing to promote your own resentments and insecurities.
iminheatlikeacat, I definitely do not care for how much we see people promoting their “queer pride” everywhere and using that to distinguish themselves from the “straight world” and sometimes using their “queerness” for money and attention, all while they mostly having hetero commitments. It makes me uncomfortable. And those people do need to check themselves. But about 60% of bi-identifying people are in hetero commitments. So, why are you attacking “queer” and “trans” in particular? Something’s not adding up in your argument. You also need to understand that being “out” isn’t strictly about wanting to be in a non hetero commitment. It’s often about wanting to be honest, wanting to be less paranoid and trying to find some peace. There are too many people who use identities and sexual/gender politics for attention or to soothe their insecurities and traumas or to fit in with who they want to fit in with. And that is an issue to a lot of folks, no matter their dimensions or what identities they embrace. Call out the leeching or problematic shit, but also accept that not everyone wants to same thing as you or is “out” for the same reasons.
Once again, it’s not about you guys’ resentments, traumas, insecurities. And it’s not about anyone trying to force a word on you. Embrace “queer” or don’t. But people are not gonna follow the rules you want them to. That’s just not how shit works. And it’s something I eventually had to get over.
This mess is why I really don’t give a shit about identity any longer. Find self-comfort and peace and inner validation and truly learn about sexuality, gender, sociology, psychology, the gender, sexual, romantic, comfort, emotional investment, commitment spectrum. Arguing about what identities you don’t like, it serves almost no purpose and doesn’t help any type of progress.
Cam
@iminheatlikeacat Is ANOTHER screename by the same person using @Hank31.
But nice try precious.
iminheatlikeacat
Hank,
“The whole point of naming ourselves in the first place was to be able to talk about ourselves and to identify our needs and interests, and we can’t even do that anymore”
“Note that there is no other minority which has allowed itself to be colonized in this way”
This is exactly how I feel.
Donston,
I don’t agree with your use of attack, but rather not in agreement of *any* letter following the B to be grouped together with the former. I also think you’re focusing too much on my original comment about the marriage between my coworker and her partner. I’m talking about heterosexuals, not hetero commitment lifestyles, so being “out” has nothing to do with it (and if a person wasn’t out, then presumably they wouldn’t be celebrating or aligning with “queerness” anyway). LGBs have sexualities, like heterosexuality. You can’t be bisexual and heterosexual (unless lying, or it’s a secret).
And I quite agree with your last paragraph. It’s one of the smaller reasons* why I don’t visit here much any more. But I don’t embrace the word queer. I’m not marching up and down streets demanding that people change it, or saying it’s wrong. I dislike the word, and explained why, on an article specifically asking its readers how it feel about said word.
Cam*
You are a (big) reason I stopped visiting here much. Anything that you don’t like warrants a cry of troll or screech. I do wonder how you’ve been allowed to post for so long when you constantly disrupt discussion in an immature way. Believe me, one account here for me is more than enough, I don’t have, nor wish to have, any more than this one.
Openminded
Imacat: You stated ” (and if a person wasn’t out, then presumably they wouldn’t be celebrating or aligning with “queerness” anyway)”
I’m willing to bet there are as many, if not more, closeted or curious LGBTQ folks than there are out LGBTQ folks. Your presumption indicates your narrow minded intelligence.
PQ
Man this comment thread is such an amazing insight into the minds of baby boomers. The world will be so much better without your opinions. Cisgender gay man here. I love being in a community with my trans brothers and sisters. I love being Queer. I look forward to the way our society will flourish when we are free from the burden of your generation.
jayceecook
I’m not a boomer nor am I a transph0bic person. I’m sure those that are can speak for themselves. However, I’d like to remind you that if it were not for the very people you’re waiting to die off your privileged, cisgender, gay @ss probably wouldn’t even exist let alone commenting on your love of generational genocide.
Heywood Jablowme
You may be jumping to conclusions about some commenters. For instance Hank31, the biggest trans-hater here – who also hates the word queer – claims to be “young” but as usual he is as grouchy as any Fox News grandpa in this comment thread. Some of us boomers were making fun of him awhile back and we guessed he must be WAY older than us. If guys in our 60s are cool with “queer” we figured Hank31 must be over 80. Or maybe 90. (I thought Hank31 probably referred to the year 1931.) He denies it though and declares that only old people ate fans of “queer.”
Hank31
@Heywood — lol! I am touched to know that you are obsessing over me! However, no matter how strong your desire, i won’t ever date you. BTW, the ageism that you casually engage in is disgusting and ultimately, you will be its victim too.
I am 32. I was 31 when I joined Queerty. But none of this has the slightest thing to do with my acceptance or rejection of “queer.” As I noted in my comment above, every survey on this issue shows that the overwhelming majority of LGB people – young and old, in the USA, the UK and Australia – reject “queer” as an identity label. Self-ID as “queer” has more to do with one’s perceived marginalization, professional field, poor mental health, and low self-esteem than it does with age.
Anyways, sorry we won’t work out. Good luck finding a date!
Heywood Jablowme
@Hank1931: I love my bf, thanks, but I wouldn’t date a 32-year-old because that would be ridiculous at my age. Ageism, I guess! More important, I wouldn’t date someone who has a seething, snarling hatred of trans people like you do. And worse, you’re a monomaniac who feels the need to proselytize your noxious beliefs to other “LGB” people in this forum. The word “divisive” is thrown around too casually nowadays, but every post of yours is intentionally, obnoxiously divisive. It’s unlikely though that you’re making converts to your POV here since your tone is way too Church Lady and is often unintentionally amusing.
PQ
Jaycee, I’d love it if you could tell me exactly where I advocate for genocide. Perhaps you should clutch your pearls a little less tightly. I’m also not sure why you would assume I’m privileged simply because I am cisgender and gay. You seem to harbor a lot of negative stereotypes in addition to your distaste for the word queer that I suspect stem from some deeply rooted self loathing/internalized homophobia.
jayceecook
@PQ It’s called a figure of speech you tw*t. Much like your pearl clutching cliché.
When you say, “The world will be so much better without your opinions…I look forward to the way our society will flourish when we are free from the burden of your generation.” what you mean by that is, “I can’t wait until your entire generation dies off.” Don’t pretend it means anything more.
You’re privileged because if it were not for the literal blood, sweat, tears of the LGBTQ+ folks who came before us you and I wouldn’t have it as easy as we do. This very site you’re commenting on properly wouldn’t even exist. Not to mention the myriad of other things they fought for and achieved so future generations wouldn’t have to suffer the way they did. The world isn’t a perfect place. Honestly, it never will be. There will always be work to be done to not only further our rights but to maintain the ones that were achieved. No generation is perfect and should be called out for the mistakes they made. However, that doesn’t mean all the good that they did do is nullified by them.
Also, next time you try and tear somebody down with all that “you hate the word queer”, internalized h0m0ph0bia and other armchair psychology, make sure that person didn’t specifically say in their own comment posted long before yours that they identify as queer.
SamB
“Queer”, to me, is very political and makes me think of someone angry and aggressive. I agree with some others on this thread, I’m gay, not queer and do not want to be associated with queers. No internalized homophobia, before anyone tries to say that.
A queer person seems to make being gay their entire life, where I have a life I’m enjoying and being gay is a part of it.
Seth
I use it as an umbrella term to cover the whole of the “too many letters from the alphabet” designations. It does seem to draw a line in the sand generationally, though. I’m Gen X and it seems like those older than I detest it and those younger than embrace it. I prefer it.
Donston
A lot of folks 40+ either embrace “queer” or at least understand its usage and don’t get angry at people about it even if they don’t embrace it. It’s just that that this site attracts a lot of bitter folks who stay angry at the “younger generation”, as well as attracting many flat-out trolls.
Chrisk
Donston
“A lot of folks 40+ are bitter folks who stay angry at the “younger generation”
Dumbest thing I’ve ever heard but then again it’s coming from you and I usually just ignore your babbling. Carry on Don.
Heywood Jablowme
@ChrisK: That’s not what Donston said. Why are you misquoting him? Hangover today?
Donston
ChrisK, you still mad that I called out your low-key racist perspectives several times? Maybe it’s time to move on. At the very least, if you’re gonna bother reading my babbling then actually read it and quote it properly.
Donston
iminheatlikeacat, no, you primarily whined about queer-identifying people in hetero relationships. Sexuality is an incredibly diverse and individual thing. There’s the types and degrees of attractions, arousals, desires, enjoyment, passion, paraphiliacs. There’s the general extent of someone’s sex drive. There’s potentially experienced degrees of fluidity or contradictions. There’s the entirety of the gender, sexual, affection, comfort, romantic, emotional investment, commitment spectrum. And guess what? There are dudes who are probably more inherently heterosexual or may be flat-out heterosexual but still lean homo when it comes to the overall spectrum, and they commit to/marry someone of their sex. Not everyone is more into their sex primarily because of intercourse. While ratio-wise, there are probably more “queer” identifying people in non hetero relationships than bi identifying people in non hetero relationships. And of course, there are many people who embrace both a “queer” and “gay” identity. So, you specially targeting “queer” because of hetero marriage/relationships doesn’t make much sense.
People and their psychology, dimensions and motivations are incredibly diverse. And it’s not that easy to summarize and categorize folks. That’s something many people need to get over. Once again, focus less on not-picking about identities and more on people being themselves, gaining self-comfort and health and living their lives as they truly wish. If they’re being problematic or leech-like it’s fine to call them out. Otherwise, just let people live their lives and get over it.
Heywood Jablowme
Well I must say I’m a little disappointed with these comments. I was hoping that He Who Must Not Be Named would whine to Professor Problematic (Donston) about some imaginary “personal attack” and then Donston would smack him down again! As one of Donston’s other screen names, I expect no less, dammit!
My little horse must think it queer
To stop without a farmhouse near
Between the woods and frozen lake
The darkest evening of the year.
He gives his harness bells a shake
To ask if there is some mistake.
The only other sound’s the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake.
The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
Donston
Cute. But I’m trying to figure out exactly how have I been “problematic”? Saying that I don’t care much about identities is a personal thing. Unlike many others, I let people embrace whatever identity they wish and make sure I’m never hypocritical. If it’s because of my use of “queen” as condescending then, yeah, I’ll own up to that. I do tend to use that word as code for a basic, shallow, idiotic queer.
But yes, I’m surprised that particular individual didn’t latch on to something I said.
Heywood Jablowme
I don’t mean YOU are problematic, I just mean you use the word a lot. Maybe you saw this a few weeks ago: /www. theatlantic.com/ ideas/archive/2021/10/problem-with-word-problematic/620289/
Donston
I tend to use the word ironically or as a general summation of someone who a lot of people have issues with for a number of reasons. I do think it’s overused in internet language. So much so that it doesn’t have much weight any longer. Someone you don’t like or don’t entirely agree with does not equate to “problematic”. It’s had the same journey as something like “woke”.
Ronbo
If ‘queer’ means you don’t give a shit about what haters think or say, call me queer.
There are far too many posers here pushing accusations, insults and uneducated opinion. Appearances indicate that Cam and Donston are writing the same looooong book with the same accusations, insults and opinion. Mimicking the Republican MO isn’t providing any kind of solution.
Has anyone ever asked, “what does Cam Donston think”?
Donston
Dude, what are talking about? This is actually one of those rare topics Queerty pushes forward that’s worthy of widespread, nuanced perspective and back-and-forth’s. Yet, folks can’t help getting bitchy, disrespectful and insecure and succumbing to name-calling. That is truly reflective of the “Republican way”. And yeah, plenty of people have posted here saying that they appreciate my insights. So, try again.
Could you contribute something that isn’t inherently bitchy and isn’t focused on how much you don’t like whatever poster? Because what you’re doing certainly isn’t much of a “solution” either.