public stonings

Should Harold Ford Jr. Even Bothered Talking to New York’s Gays?

We knew Harold Ford Jr.’s sit down with the Stonewall Democrats in New York — perhaps his last public appearance before officially announcing, or canceling, his U.S. Senate seat run — would be “fun.” Little did we know it would be a blast.

Some two hundred people attended the event tonight. And while it’s hard to tell how many of them actually supported Ford, or were willing to keep an open mind, the shouting, booing, and sign waving definitely sent the message that he really is not wanted around here.

“You may choose to not vote for me,” Ford kept telling the crowd, but that was little to keep shouts from the audience at bay. “You lie!” and “New York doesn’t want you!” were among the favorites.

As for that whole marriage equality issue, for which Ford faces considerable controversy, he says, “I was wrong before and I think I’m right now. … The reason support for marriage equality continues to go up is because people like me change our minds.” (See below video; the audience disagreed.)


The loudest applause came when Lt. Dan Choi expressed support for incumbent Senator Kirsten Gillibrand. He told Ford he seemed to be asking our community to “fire her” to reward her for her fierce advocacy.

Ford didn’t do himself any favors by asking a questioner to clarify what “Lawrence v. Texas” was. Ladies will be glad to hear the room was equally activated when Ford tried to distance himself from his pro-life past.

Some stupid moves on Ford’s part, the largest among them, his campaign staff might find, was even attending the event, where he was clearly walking into unfriendly territory.

But for that, we actually respect the guy. Just a little. He’s willing to face the opposition (New York’s gay community) in his quest for political office, which some politicians avoid at any cost. The event wasn’t just unfriendly to Ford; it was rude.

So, allow us to take a moment to address that: Shouting over the invited guest? Demanding he “go home,” when you’re the ones who bothered showing up to an event you knew he’d appear at? If you want to protest him, fine, but at least let him speak. We’d expect the same for our own. This was uncalled for and makes New York’s gay community look intolerant and juvenile — the same things we accuse others of being.

Except there was absolutely no chance of Ford convincing the state’s gay power elite to abandon their support of sitting Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand to get behind a candidate who’s repeatedly proven to say whatever it takes to secure votes.

In a word: FAIL. Not just this evening’s appearance, but Ford’s entire as-yet-unannounced campaign.

[NCRM] [Daily Kos] [Gay City News]

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  • dontblamemeivotedforhillary

    We have every right to disrupt! He will run anyway and he will be part of why we could lose Senator Kirsten as well as a Governor Cuomo and the expected GOP sweep in 2010!

  • dontblamemeivotedforhillary

    BTW – Awful volume! Why bother at all?

  • So what's the message here?

    So what’s the message here? If you didn’t embrace gay marriage from day one, don’t bother to change your mind, because gays will reject you as though you still opposed it? That strikes me as deeply unwise and supremely childish.

  • dontblamemeivotedforhillary

    @ So what’s the message here?

    Ok, you are part of the Harold Ford Jr Senatorial exploratory committee. I notice all these new not-so-gay IDs appear much in the same way that the Establishment Democrats stack GLID and Stonewall Democrat meetings just prior to endorsements of tepid candidates. New Yorkers are more hard-boiled than your prat-like comments.

    Deeply unwise? Only YOU are presuming you are wise!
    Supremely Childish? Would you say that to an all-Black audience?

    We are grown-ass gay voting adults and take no orders from HRC, ESPA or the Democratic Party for that matter and New York is the PAC Bonanza!

    So, whatever hole you crawled out of, return for we see your shadow, Groundhog Harry’s Boy and I am being childish here! My rights are not negotiable, subject to change or bait-and-switched by sycophantic staff on a Consultancy fee for corrupt and proven anti-gay candidates.

  • wondermann

    @dontblamemeivotedforhillary: Well, I’m not a part of any Harold Ford group and I’ll say it was childish and silly. This foolishness may help him!

  • schlukitz

    No. 4 · dontblamemeivotedforhillary

    @ So what’s the message here?


  • schlukitz

    No. 5 · wondermann

    Another apologist!

  • dontblamemeivotedforhillary

    @Wondermann or is that

    Seems you are biased against lgbts when the candidate is black like you! Does that make you, hmmm, homophobic or a reverse racist?

  • schlukitz

    No. 8 · dontblamemeivotedforhillary

    Wondermann has been an Obama apologist since the day the prez took office.

    That should tell you everything you need to know about him.

  • dontblamemeivotedforhillary

    …and he’s fat, too. Not the superhero kind at all. He takes the position of umbrage to every comment aimed at Prince Harold Jr. and is vehemently anti- Adam Lambert so I am guessing that he is a REVERSE RACIST!

  • Michael W.

    I could easily forgive him if he simply opposed gay marriage and changed his mind.

    Unfortunately for Prince Harry, it’s not that simple, because he was an elected member of congress who voted TWICE to change the US Constitution to ban gay marriage nationwide, trouncing on the rights of states such as Vermont and Massachusetts. That’s not only despicable to me as a gay man but a person who can’t fathom why anyone would want to inject discrimination and religion into the document that guarantees freedom and liberty for all, including principled conservatives like Ron Paul who voted against it.

    That’s bigger than gay marriage, Harold. It’s not about left and right, it’s your convictions as a human being. Any person who’d dare cast such a vote, no matter the political climate at the time, is too dangerous to be a US Senator.

  • Lukas P.

    I’ve learned this the hard way: When dealing with a presumed adversary, ask questions instead of making statements. Resist the urge to jump in, make comments, or strangle them. Tempting as it may be. Let them use their own words, get them comfortable, and they will eventually prove or hang themselves, show their true feelings, or express their insight/cluelessness.

    I’m still learning that lesson every day.

    Mr Ford has scripted answers to most questions, but his true sentiments about the issues might be coaxed out if given time.

    I don’t/won’t “buy” his conversion to supporting rights of same-sex marriage at all, until he can articulate his understanding of why this issue matters to us, and how the current law discriminates against us,

    How aware is he of other issues affecting LBGs?

  • wondermann

    @schlukitz: If you two cretins want to be childish, fine. Show everyone how ignorant and dumb you are. This has nothing to with him being black. The action was ridic, that’s just the facts.

  • wondermann

    @dontblamemeivotedforhillary: so just because I don’t like Adam Lambert makes me a racist? Are you 12? Such a frakking idiot. It’s an insult to be insulted by you.

  • Elm

    Wonderman, you’ll always choose to defend someone who shares your skin color (even a bonafide piece of dirt bigot) over someone who is a targeted gay.
    Don’t request the rest of the gay community (BLACK and white and brown and yellow and…) to adopt the same skewed outlook on life.

  • killerwhalesKILL!!!

    What’s the next step? Will Harold Ford and Gay Rights Activists meet for discussion or are we to hear awkward shouts of “Lies” every which way and what? It does prove their is passion, but direction? We’ll see. It’s really up to us.

  • wondermann

    @Elm: Actually he’s not completely Black and I’m not completely Black so your point is?

  • wondermann

    Odd, I support 2 multiracial men and I’m racist and a bigot. Continue showing me how educated you are guys; I’m entertained by this.

  • Asher

    It’s interesting to watch these comments. Anyone looking at Harold Ford for the first time would not say the man is “black.” He looks white.

  • Steve

    @So what’s the message here?:

    Ford has a history of saying one thing during the campaign, and then voting the opposite way after being elected.

    And, he didn’t just vote against marriage equality. He voted for CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS to prohibit marriage equality, TWICE. Those votes indicate a clear, deeply held belief, not just a short term political judgment.

    The gay people at the meeting clearly believe he is lying, again.

  • Brian En Guarde

    There is no amnesty for a politician who understands the history of this country so badly that they actually had the nerve to vote with hate and write civil rights out of the Constitution. Voting yes to carve us out of the laws and out of the bill of rights means that he is disqualified to sit in Congress.

    For him, post-racial means they lack a basic comprehension of civil rights.

    And his cold fish, ignorant, unstudied, lazy presentation deserves disrespect too.

  • Brian En Guarde

    And Harold, don’t waste one precious second of our BELOVED Gilli’s time with your carpet-bagging asshole ambitions. If you run, not only will WE not vote for you, we will grab every person on every street corner not to vote for you either. You tried to write me out of my Constitution, fucktard, so that only qualifies you to talk on Morning Joe.

  • So what's the message here?

    No, I don’t work for Ford. I don’t even much care for him. And I think that concluding that he’s lying about his change of heart, as some commenters above suggested, is, if evidenced, reasonable. BUT I think it’s absurd and counterproductive to send the message “don’t bother to change your mind, as gays will vilify you regardless,” explicitly because *we want and need lots of people to change their minds.*

    Also, automatically writing me (or anyone who disagrees with whatever position you might take) as a shill or a hack demonstrates the same backfire-laden childishness.

  • Brian En Guarde

    @So what’s the message here

    Stop your whining. He didn’t “change his mind,” he is blowing around with the prevailing winds. You are a miserable fool for defending a man who twice voted to carve your ass out of the Constitution. Douchebag didn’t even know what Lawrence v. Texas was! He just wants votes, he is a carpetbagging whore pig who gets every ounce of contempt that can possibly be served up.

  • Tim W

    @So what’s the message here?: The problem with Mr. Ford is not only did he vote for a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage he told members of the TN chapter of Stonewall Democrats he wouldn’t and did anyway. Then last night he called them liars and said he never told anyone that. Bottom line is he’s a liar plain and simple then to accuse others of lying is low.

  • Mike in Asheville, nee "in Brooklyn"

    @ So What’s The Message Here
    @ Wondermann

    You are absolutely correct: the only way that LGBT causes can succeed is when those who formerly opposed LGBT rights change their minds and embrace our cause. It has only been through years of efforts, from Gay, Inc. groups to the radicals (ActUp; Larry Kramer) that have gotten support for marriage equality, repeal of DADT, AIDS funding, anti-discrimination protections in employment and housing — has grown from ZERO support to 48% support for marriage; 70% support to repeal DADT; 85%+ support for AIDS/HIV funding; 75%+ support of employment/housing protections.

    The LGBT community needs to continue changing minds!


    Ford is a political hack who takes on issues and offers support/opposition based on how his actions will improve his personal political stature. It is very telling that he twice voted to amend our Constitution to ensure that rights be taken away from LGBT Americans.

    There are no rules about how one SINCERELY changes their mind; but we know it when we see it. Nothing Ford has done suggests that he has changed his mind; everything he has done suggests he is a political opportunist seeking avenues to get himself back into the political game.

    After showing himself as someone willing to enshrine governmental discrimination against a class of citizens, the only way Ford can demonstrate a conversion is by opposite actions more powerful to atone his prior votes to take away marriage-equality. Lets see him lobbying for marriage-equality, attend weddings of those he claims are his friends, donating to marriage-equality efforts from his PACs. Actions, Mr. Ford, not words.

  • Cam

    No. 3 · So what’s the message here? said…

    So what’s the message here? If you didn’t embrace gay marriage from day one, don’t bother to change your mind, because gays will reject you as though you still opposed it? That strikes me as deeply unwise and supremely childish.

    Senator Diaz in NYC is trying to scare people from supporting gays by saying that it will hurt them politically, and now Harold Ford wants us to vote AGAINST a senator who is pushing for our rights in favor of a guy who worked AGAINST us. We would be proving Senator Diaz’s point if we did that. Tell Harold ford to come back to us AFTER, Sen. Gillibrand is gone, and AFTER he has worked on gay issues for a while and not just when they were convienient for his election. Until that time, he is welcome to come to large gay groups, but, since the GOP has made it clear that the only way the tea partiers got their attention was to be vocal, don’t assume that the Dem’s didn’t get the same message.

  • Brian En Guarde

    We have to remember that Gilli has put her ass on the line, and has demonstrated that she is a genuine American, who understands civil rights. Her civil rights courage has made me, for one, outraged when I see a fake like Ford have the nerve to challenge his better.

  • $0.02

    “”don’t bother to change your mind, as gays will vilify you regardless,” explicitly because *we want and need lots of people to change their minds.*”

    I do agree with these two statements as being a minority group that pretty much has to jump through hoops to get any type of right, we need all the help we can get. But it has to be proven help. Of course people can change for the better or the worse. Ford is asking voters to just take his word for it whereas he has not shown any type of public support for LGBT causes and the community at all. As a community that is constantly lied to and let down that is just not enough. I don’t think he’ll be able to get the seat this time around. He’d do himself a world of good to show us in the comming years that he really will fight for us and be an ally. I’ll never ever do what these people did here and not even give someone a chance to explain themselves. I feel that is a bit on the immature side. But in that same token, you can’t take someone too serious that is only giving you words but has shown no action. It speaks volumes that he even met with the group. But he has a long way to go and if he’s trying to appeal to the LGBT community in NY he’s going to have to DO a lot more than this.

  • Chitown Kev


    The sad part about that is I don’t think that Harold Ford could amass that much BLACK support, and it would have nothing to do with his now supporting gay marriage.

    Ford is a straight up Blue Dog and blacks despise the Blue Dogs.

    And yes it seems as if that anything that is “black” wondermann supports unconditionally; it’s not simply a matter of defending a person against racism (which I would understand!).

    In 2010, no way would I vote for Ford. Two votes FOR FMA and lying to the Stonewall Dems in Tennessee…nah.

    But for 2012 (when Gillibrand’s seat is up again)

    Let’s see if Harold is really sincere. Let him go around New York state (and perhaps before the State Senate in Albany) and advocate for gay issues. Work with Al Sharpton in the black communities in NY on the marriage issue. Take on Senor Diaz.

    If he’s really changed his mind, then PROVE IT.

    Given all that and IF Gillibrand falls flat on her face as a Senator then maybe Ford would be a viable option, if for no other reason than to hold on the seat.

  • wondermann

    @Chitown Kev: I don’t support every black person. However, I support those who are making effort to our rights, regardless of race. I support Obama because he’s the only president who has made some movement for us.

    I don’t support Ford, but our actions should not result into foolishness. That event spoke more about us than it did about him

  • Dirty Ole Man

    Harold looks like an Aggressive Top.
    I bet he has a big fat cock to match his
    huge ego.

  • tjr101

    As a NY’er I couldn’t be more pleased with the outcome of that event. Harold Ford is nothing but a dishonest carpetbagger with wall street connections that can very well buy any election. I could careless if he’s black, I won’t vote for him…his votes to write discrimination into our constitution is simply disgusting. He’s too conservative for NY anyway!

  • Cam

    No. 33 · Dirty Ole Man
    Harold looks like an Aggressive Top.
    I bet he has a big fat cock to match his
    huge ego.

    Sometimes it’s the guys who are the most aggressive at work and out in public that are totally submissive in the bedroom. Just a thought. lol

  • Isebrand

    With all the sturm und drang over etiquette, a CONTRAST to the Tea Baggers’ tactics might be instructive. Baggers disrupted Congress Member’s public forums with lies and misinformation based on lies and misinformation. LGBT protestors disrupted the Stonewall NYC’s event with evidence of and based on Ford’s own record, for which I don’t think he’s ever had to pay a political price until last night. A politician supporting potential health care reform isn’t a situation of abject immorality; Ford campaigning and voting against justice and equality for LGBT Americans was highly immoral in the minds of many progressives regardless of their Party affiliation, if any, or their sexual orientation.

    Actually, it seems to me that the event was probably a win-win for Ford and the LGBT protesters. The objective truth is that they BOTH got their messages out (via the press’ subsequent coverage of the event), whether one agrees or disagrees with the messages or the modes of there delivery.

  • ousslander

    While NOT a a ford fan , it was a juvenile. Shout him down if he’s condeming gays or some rot but to shout down someone who now supports gays.Let him have his say.

    Don’t know who left the comment gays don’t take their marching orders from the dem party, well that’s new to me. Very glad if it changes, both parties should be held to the same standard and the gay vote should not be automatically counted on.

  • dontblamemeivotedforhillary

    @No. 31 · Chitown Kev

    @dontblamemeivotedforhillary: Whatever the hell crap you said….

    Obviously, you are not from New York where the conservatives are the outer borough Blacks, Spanish and Orthodox Jewish constituents who were the blocking votes to New York Gay Marriage. There are rare exceptions as in the case of Council Member Letitia James (Independent) and Anthony Weiner (Liberal Democrat) who are very progressive.

    In New York, Blacks account for 20% of the population, Hispanics around 20% and whites 60% according to the 2008 census though that may have changed due to a surging Dominican population (now the largest Spanish group) while blacks have remained steady despite an exodus of 1 million African-Americans who were replaced by non-American blacks in equal numbers. People do vote their skin color in New York, especially if in a minority regardless of the issues (like hardmann who is sorta flabby and feminine but that’s neither here nor there)

    The 2 most liberal voting blocks are women and gays. Manhattan is the most liberal borough with Brooklyn and Queens usually deciding the state-wide elections. New York Post candidate Harold Ford Junior’s purpose is to cause major collateral damage to Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, who is staunchly gay-supportive though had her own learning curve as she did represent a pro-gun district (which is a shocker to New Yorkers) but they do hunt Upstate. In many ways, she’s a better fit than even Senator Hillary and Moynihan were as she is well-prepared and extremely independent, even keeping Al Sharpton begrudgingly bipartisan.

    The editor of New York Daily News and conservative pundit, Morty Zuckerman is planning on running for the Republican and Conservative lines (and has enough cash to buy the Independent line as well as a whole bunch of made up parties like The Rent is Too Damn High!) His success depends on a bruising Democratic Primary and Harold Ford Junior has no qualms in punching a white woman in the gut. Luckily, blacks will not turn out in 2010 as they would with the Presidential election, unless the old race-baiting gets played out by the New York Post. Seniors will decide 2010 as youth are very disillusioned with “Change we can believe in” and are the largest recession-driven unemployed demographic which may be bad for Democrats in 2012, as well as a good-looking, light-skinned African-American Senator challenging an unpopular incumbent President as the Democrats worst enemies are their own!

  • Chitown Kev


    Hmph. Sound like my mama

    “Now be a good boy and don’t be out in the streets embarrassing me.”

  • Chitown Kev


    I don’t know whether the Senators from those black outer boroughs were blocking gay marriage (other than Shirley Huntley’s). Malcolm Smith and Ruth Hassell Thompson both voted yes (in spite of their constituents), but again, I am not familiar with the geography, so I will defer to you somewhat…

    Now I don’t doubt that some race-baiting would be needed for Ford to even have a chance but…again, in terms of economics, Ford is a Blue Dog and if he is opposed to Obama in some ways that will not go down well with black people (that is, if the NY media does their job and tease it out).

    Sure some will vote solely on the basis of race (provided Harold keeps his wife hidden, lol) but if that record of his gets out, Ford will not get that much support from the black community…at least not what he would need.

    Now the idea that he’s out to cause major collateral damage to Gillibrand, that’s an idea I could agree with (then I could see Harold swooping in in 2012 regardless).

  • dontblamemeivotedforhillary

    @No 40. ChiTown Kev (How’s Illinois doing lately?)

    says “Now the idea that he’s out to cause major collateral damage to Gillibrand, that’s an idea I could agree with (then I could see Harold swooping in in 2012 regardless).”

    You are obviously anti-gay and know nothing about New York!

  • Chitown Kev


    I mean, that could be what Harold’s plan is, not that I approve of it.

    I’ve thought for several weeks now that he isn’t going to run for this seat, which does beg the question why is he doing all of this.

    I think Harold is “casing the joint” for a future run.

    And any accusation of me being ant-gay is preposterous on its’ face.

  • Chitown Kev


    Oh, we are corrupt as ever! It wouldn’t be Illinois, otherwise.

    We are trying to stave off the wingnuts from taking over the Republican Party here though. Mark Kirk really hasn’t been the wingnut Republican type (he couldn’t get away with representin Wilmette and Winnetka). The national Party and the downstate wingnuts may want him to go that way but…hell, he would lose his district if he did that.

    Alexi Giannoulias ( who’s HAWT!) has a Tony Rezko problem (among other things) that may come back to bite him.

    Kirk should win, but he needs to stay right where he is politically.

  • Chitown Kev


    Oh, I should have made that statement clearer, now I see what you mean.

  • lj

    so the right to equality is only given to gay people when Harry Ford and people like him declare it a fact that the time for marriage equality is now? I think not. Laws are meant to protect people like us from people like him. Let us not wait for any more bigots like Harry Ford to achieve enlightenment before we are rightfully represented as the constitution commands. Too little too late Harry Ford. Go away. You are the type of corporate puppet that goes along with the flow of the inevitable only to enrich yourself. Altruism is not within your heart. GONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • lj

    And if Dan Choi’s presence is not enough to remind everyone how Clinton screwed us all over the very moment he moved into the White House then we as a community deserve Harry Ford trying to pull off the same tactic in NY.

  • dontblamemeivotedforhillary

    @ChiTown Kev

    It’s bigger to admit fault than cast stones and I applaud you for that. Illinois is the only state more corrupt than New York (I miss the old Louisiana days…a few years back!)

    I’ve been following Illinois with interest since Governor Blah-blah-blah-blah! I think that Republican Kirk may take it if he survives challenges unless Democrat Giannoulias takes his shirt off on Oprah!

    BTW – Harold Ford is allegedly quite asexual which is why the Playboy Mansion attack ad in Tennesse was funny to insiders (He’s not the Bro’s before Ho’s Obama Alpha-male type) so Dirty Old Man may need to strap on a Dildo and put duct tape over that Grand Canyon of an Ass!

  • Chitown Kev


    Superficially, Kirk is in somewhat of a higher profile Scott Brown situation. Given the gay rumors, the teabaggers might stay away from him and if that happens, he has a good chance to win this.

    As he should, experience wise, Kirk is a lot more qualified for this seat than Giannoulias.

  • Brian NYC

    Harold Ford was dismissed by the LGBT Community.

    Of course he was – he is a weasel.

    When Harold was in Tennessee (78% anti-LGBT) he was against same-sex marriage. Now while in New York (48% anti-LGBT) he supports same-sex marriage. HE didn’t change his mind, the polls did. The wife, the Uncle, blah, blah blah.

    He is a LIAR. He should go back to Tennessee and change some minds THERE. Go share his magical transformation with those rednecks and see if it helps. If he did THAT, he can come and tell us all about it. Otherwise, shut-up Harold.

  • MikeUT

    This was the trap the Republicans were talking about!

  • Cam

    No. 47 · dontblamemeivotedforhillary said…

    BTW – Harold Ford is allegedly quite asexual which is why the Playboy Mansion attack ad in Tennesse was funny to insiders (He’s not the Bro’s before Ho’s Obama Alpha-male type) so Dirty Old Man may need to strap on a Dildo and put duct tape over that Grand Canyon of an Ass!

    Interesting, most of the people I’ve known in life who were “Asexual” often were that way because they were supressing their sexuality…..many ended up coming out a few years later. Now wouldn’t THAT interesting….you vote for an anti gay law and then come out. He’d be as popular as Roy Cohen at gay events.

  • Bill Perdue

    The time when the same medicine should be given to Obama, the Clintons, Biden, Republicans, Pelosi, Barney Frank and Reid is long past due.

  • Slider

    Harold Ford, Jr. ran anti Gay ads in his campaign for US Senate in TN and has a horrible GLBT record. No way in the world should he be the Senate candidate in NY. As ChiTown Kev said let Ford prove himself through his conduct over the next few years.

    Ford is an opportunist who has not shown one bit or one iota of support for GLBT issues UNTIL he decided he wants to run for US Senate in NY……and for that we are supposed to roll over and play dead and stupid, deaf, dumb and blind to accept just because he says he is now for GLBT rights…..I don’t think so!

  • tjr101


    You failed to mention Sen. Joseph Addabbo, Sen. George Onorato and Sen Carl Kruger…white democrats who represent pre-dominantly white voters in the outer boroughs that voted against same -sex marriage. It goes both ways my friend, it’s not just the minority communities.

  • dontblamemeivotedforhillary

    I just want to declare: “New York Queers are very Smart!” Now take a bow and play nice!

  • Lukas P.

    I’m still not believing that Ford has “seen the light” but I don’t vote in NY so who cares. His actions need to match his words, and if he’s sincere, I hope he can prove it.

    @Chitown Kev: I agree that Giannoulias is *hot*, I saw him in the Loop on his way to/from a fundraiser, and I literally stopped in my tracks. I won’t vote for him based on that, because I think he’s too green and his family baggage will weigh him down. A win for Kirk would change the political landscape in DC, and that may or may not be a good thing.
    Stay tuned.

    The level of corruption in Illinois is mind-boggling. The State may switch hands back and forth between the Dems and the Reps, but the game stays the same. The city of Chicago rivals Milan, Italy in its patronage system. Cook county politics could be turned into an opera or a sitcom and people would say it’s too much to believe!

  • reason

    Disagreeing with someone doesn’t bestow carte blanche to disrespect them; it reeks of the same pettiness, immaturity, and crudeness that is plaguing Washington. When I attended speeches by Newt Gingrich or Antonin Scalia, one who sowed the incivility that exist in Washington today while the other sullied the court with hyper-partisanship, I treated them with respect regardless of the animosity that I may hold. When Newt Gingrich does something well like his work on education reform I acknowledge and applaud him on the issue, I am not going to let myself be blinded because I dislike a lot of other things about him. Some might see this as hypocritical in regards to the stance I took on Cheney, it is not, when Cheney does something good that doesn’t arise from directly benefiting his own I will applaud him.

    Getting on to Harold, there is many different philosophies in discerning why he took the positions that he did in Tennessee, I don’t need to list them. I could only hypothesis why his views are changing, and in an attempt to avoid being dogmatic like some off you I will not. I will say, channeling So What’s The Message Here, that it is “deeply unwise and supremely childish” to attack Harold when he has changed his mind. The message that is being sent is your either with us from the beginning or you are against us, there is no redemption or second chances. Your telling the majority of Americans that if you have opposed us we don’t like you and we have no interest in winning you over, if you change your mind about us we still hate you. Hardening ones heart will not only make them blind to the truth, but will also work to ones demise.

    We should be grateful that Harold has changed his mind about issues affecting the community, and optimistic that there is others out there that can also undergo changes of their minds. If the goal of our community is to reach full equality, it requires changing the minds of the majority of Americans. Does this mean that you should go and vote for Harold? Most certainly not. If ones views align with Kirsten, vote for Kirsten. Kirsten has a record of supporting the gay community, and if ones vote comes down to gay issues I don’t see why anyone would punish Kirsten for doing the right thing on those matters.

  • Bill Perdue

    @reason: Extending any degree of respect for that collection of hustlers and thugs who occupy the White House and Congress is a fools errand, “a task that can’t be accomplished it’s a joke. And the same goes for candidates for Congress’

    Mark Hanna, Republican National Committee Chairman (1896)
    “An honest politician is one who, when he is bought, will stay bought.”

    We don’t have any allies in the Democrat or Republican Parties. If politicians wanted to be our real allies they’d quit and run independently, but that would mean an end to corporate funding in the form of ‘campaign contributions’, ‘speakers fees’ and other corporate bribes.

    Democrats, like their Republican cousins are mired in obligations to corporations. Obama got his from big Pharma and financial giants like Goldman-Sachs. He repaid his debts by scuttling socialized medicine – single payer – and handing out trillions to the looter rich. Reid is a tool of the gambling industry and Pelosi is rich in her own right. Perhaps the worst of them is Clinton, got her money from war contractors, the nice folks who make white phosphorus napalm for use on children from Palestine to Pakistan.

    “It should be no surprise that the majority of the elected denizens on Capitol Hill are millionaires and multimillionaires, so they are not going to support regular Americans but other millionaires like themselves.

    While typical, hardworking Americans are struggling to make ends meet and experiencing lower wages and benefits, these millionaires in Congress got 13% richer in 2007. The Senate especially is truly the millionaires club with a median net worth of $1.7 million. ”–perps.aspx

    MicClatchy reports: “Times are tough, but don’t worry about most members of Congress making ends meet.

    “Their collective wealth grew by 13 percent last year, leaving them in better shape than most Americans to make it through an economic downturn, according to a new analysis of personal financial reports.

    “Overall, nearly two of every three senators are millionaires. That includes presidential candidates Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill. In the House, 39 percent of all members belong to the exclusive club.

    “In the House of Representatives, Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif., ranks No. 1, with $397 million, followed by Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., with $343 million. Rep Robin Hayes, R-N.C., ranks third, with $173.4 million. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., ranks sixth, with $62 million.”

    Common Dreams reports that “The US Congress, the domed bastion of democracy in the capital of capitalism, abounds with deep-pocketed politicians whose fortunes have made the legislative branch of government a millionaire’s club.
    The American greenback is bipartisan, filling the pockets of liberal Democrats and conservative Republicans without discrimination.”

    Democrats and Republicans line their pockets with bribes, pander to christer bigots and don’t give a rat’s ass about us. If they did they wouldn’t be Democrats or Republicans.

    Republicans are rightists with a rabid theocrat attached at the hip. Democrats are Republicans in drag.

    Gore Vidal
    There is only one party in the United States, the Property Party . . . and it has two right wings: Republican and Democrat. Republicans are a bit stupider, more rigid, more doctrinaire in their laissez-faire capitalism than the Democrats, who are cuter, prettier, a bit more corrupt – until recently . . . and more willing than the Republicans to make small adjustments when the poor, the black, the anti-imperialists get out of hand. But, essentially, there is no difference between the two parties.”

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