In a new episode of MTV Decoded, Dylan Marron tackles an ongoing problem in the gay community: racism. Particularly, the sexual racism found on dating apps.
“When gay men are confronted with their racist language, many try to explain it away as ‘a preference.'” Marron says. “I mean, they can’t help it, it’s just how they feel. As if they were captive to some mystical, romantic force that naturally discriminates against people of color.”
Sound familiar?
Related: Least Desirable? Gay Asian men talk sexual racism and the impact it has on everyone
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Before you get all defensive, why not hear what Marron has to say?
He continues:
This is where structural racism comes into play. Because preferences are actually shaped by learned values. When you’re judging a person based solely on their racial background, you’re acting on generalizations you’ve learned to associate with that person’s appearance or heritage. You can’t say it’s their personality because you shut them down before you even got to know them.
Word.
Related: Being cisgender, white, and gay is no longer enough to make a guy interesting
Marron breaks it down even further for people who still don’t quite get it:
We actually learn how to define what is attractive from those around us. And because we’re raised within a framework of Western beauty standards, society often characterizes non-white features as ‘different’ or ‘unattractive.’
Watch.
https://www.facebook.com/MTVDecoded/videos/147692619248302/
Kangol
Stir it up, Graham! I used to rag on you because of the non-stop posts about straight guys given that this is supposed to be a gay/LGBTQ site, but you’ve clearly found your calling wrecking the alt-righters’ nerves on here. LOL
aliciacastro75485
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dmanhart
How many people I am not attracted to do I have to have sex with before I am not called a bigot?
Do I also have to have sex with women to prove that I am not a misogynist?
Graham Gremore: start having sex with women; otherwise, you are a hypocrite and hate women.
g-sing
Dmanhart…. You’re trying to compare apples to oranges with that bullshit argument about women.
We gay guys can’t help but not be attracted to women but you can help being attracted to another race
S.anderson
And there it is… the Gay Card. So disappoint. 🙁
S.anderson
Just curious g-sing… I’m bisexual, so I guess I’m still being sexist when I post an M4M profile. If women need not reply, right? I have no excuse by your reckoning. Pray tell, how do I advertise my interests without running afoul of Political Correctness? Is there a Bi Card? :p
You won’t find a matchmaking site that promises “100% satisfaction guaranteed, no-one will be hurt or disappointed”. That would be insane. Ya know what? I think I’m just gonna tell PC to shove it and do what works for me. The bottom line is, my right to pursue my own happiness has a much higher priority than buffering the hurt fifis of someone skimming my profile and seeing that I don’t fancy them. My interests are MINE ALONE to decide upon and to pursue! I don’t need a card, and I don’t need someone else’s approval.
And what is an appropriate response to my free and sincere speech? Well, if you think I’m limiting myself and missing out on good experiences, then you can grieve for me. Silently, please. Or, if you think I might be a “racist”, then you can just quickly move on to someone else. Again, Leave Me Alone. No-one will benefit from suppressing your “trigger words”. For heaven’s sake, the whole profile is trigger words! The reader decides if the poster is within their comfort zone. If you see a profile you don’t like, you DON’T get to attack it’s poster!
Little story here: for a while, I tried avoiding “no’s” and instead wrote “I prefer x and y and z, but I’m happy to chat and make friends with anyone”. All that ever came of it was that I was bombarded by idiots who engaged me in chat for 15 mins or so, ever-escalating sexual innuendo, and then ending with an explosive “Well, i’m not x, y or z but guess what, you can’t have me any way!”
I was not persuaded to broaden my horizons.
S.anderson
Also, What. The. Living. Hell?
g-sing: “but you can help being attracted to another race”
No. You are flatly, unconditionally, unreservedly WRONG. People do not “choose” to be unattracted to someone for any reason. Idiot!
gymmuscleboy
@g-sing You can help being attracted to another race? You know there are many people who say you can help being attracted to the same gender, right? Who do you think you are???
Donston
Still not here for it. Once again, you can call out racism and prejudice among gay men without telling people that they have to be “open” to having sex and/or relationships with people they have no romantic or sexual interests in. How about we celebrate interracial couples (and ratio wise there are quite a few more interracial gay relationships than hetero) without trying to shame everyone else?
Saying preferences are “learned values” is just as bad as people saying homosexuality doesn’t exist. Yes, it can be about “learned values” and socialogy. But your attractions, arousals, desires, passions, sexual satisfaction, romantic instincts and romantic satisfaction is not something you have control of. And yes, that extends to race. Honestly, I wouldn’t want to date a man if I’m not his preferences. We can talk about racism, execlusivity without such condescending nonense. And finally, how about looking for mate beyond hook-up apps?
(This is a site that just accused gay men of being “militant” but they keep spewing this stuff).
Coreydnyc
I can’t believe that’s what u got from this vid..perplexed
Donston
The vid was cute and humorous if slightly misguided. I’m talking more about the general agenda.
Donston
Also, I am black (or “mixed”) and married to a white guy, and I’m still not here for this kind of approach when it comes to discussing race.
Coreydnyc
Just cuz your black doesn’t mean ur immune to racist behavior against even your own race. Have you ever try to ask yourself why your “not here” for this type of approach? u may have some digging to do because I thought the vid was at the very least educational and it sounds like your not even open to learning
Xzamilloh
You know, Corey, just because he — or me for that matter, another very black man — did not come to the same conclusion that you did does not mean he is not open for learning or that you have everything figured out because it’s your perspective. Donston laid out plainly why he is “not here for it”… were you not there for it? It’s still up there, so you can always go back there for what he is not here for.
Donston
I have some attraction to and affection towards women. But because my preferences (desires, passions, arousal, sexual satisfaction, romantic instincts, romantic satisfaction) veer greatly towards guys I stopped dating women and was no longer “open” to dating them. Does that make me a misogonist? People have to be more mindful with how they approach certain topics, especially when it comes to telling people who they should date.
linniejr
Donston,
I’m a 51 year old, black, gay man, and I still see and have experienced racism in the gay community. I don’t know what exactly you were reading in this article, but what I read and got out of it, there is still a need to discuss a real issue. I did not get from this article that it was bashing interracial couples, but lets be for real, just because you love each other doesn’t mean other love you loving each other. Yes we say that we don’t care what others think or how they feel about who we love, I agree, however in this world today, those same people feel free to act on what their “whatever.”
At my age I have no desire to be open to having sex or dating someone whom I have no romantic or sexual interests in. I don’t care if they are black or white or from another ethnic background be it Latino, Indian, Asian (no matter what country on that continent). And yes, preference just like racism is a learned behavior. We are not born knowing what we like. The best way to explain, we learn not from what we are taught, but by what we see.
In closing, Donston, whether or not here you are going to have to face the fact that the approach to racism is not going to be pretty, but it must be had and it will. It’s up to us as to how we receive it.
Jonathan5865
“Saying preferences are “learned values” is just as bad as people saying homosexuality doesn’t exist. ”
You’re kind of incorrectly equating homosexuality and racial requirements in dating. You’re also making the assumption that all forms of sexual attraction are formed the same way.
You say its not learned but then why are there guys who used to be “No Asians” but then travel to Asia or live in Asia and then suddenly are only attracted to Asians. In contrast to homosexuality, I can stare at boobs all day. Hell, I could be surrounded by nothing but women…still wont be attracted to boobs.
Donston
Half of the gay relationships I know of are interracial. So, clearly there are plenty of people who are into it. I don’t factor race into the equation when it comes to dating, but I’ve experienced racism in a group of gay men, and I have been turned down because of my race (a couple of times by black men). I know what this stuff is. Once again, I’m fine with discussing racism or exclusivity/a “separationist” mentality among gay men or tactless behavior on “dating” apps or why certain people feel like they can only date certain races. These are real things and should be discussed. But telling people they have to be open to dating certain races is not something we should looking to do do. Period. Trying to guilt people into thinking liking what you like or shaming them is almost always the wrong approach to anything. And frankly, when this stuff is coming from non white people it reads as desperation and caucaciasn-worshiping, because most people who are into their own race and are “getting theirs” don’t overly concern themselves with the race other people are dating.
Queerty is only into in triggering people, getting clicks, getting re-posts and offering unrelenting contradiction. Don’t let them trip you up.
Godabed
“I have some attraction to and affection towards women. But because my preferences (desires, passions, arousal, sexual satisfaction, romantic instincts, romantic satisfaction) veer greatly towards guys I stopped dating women and was no longer “open” to dating them. Does that make me a misogonist?”
Wow just wow, you conflate your sexuality with your male privilege as if the two are the same. This here just makes you seem like you really don’t understand what sexual orientation is or how it works.
I’ll break it down. Sexual orientation is based on who you are sexually attracted two, it’s not dictated on whom you have sex with. This is the same flawed logic in gay conversion therapy that doesn’t work. Making gay men conform to heteronormative male female relationships and marriage. It’s well documented and I am certain you can find on plenty of these apps gay men in marriages, with children by women they have had sex with. Surprise they are still gay.
You being a misogynist, well that could be that you have no idea what a misogynist is, or you don’t understand your male privilege, or how you assert your power over the opposite sex. I would recommend you stop while you are behind on this, because this argument alone seeks like you really are in the dark on this subject.
S.anderson
Well put, Donston.
Donston
Godabed, you sound ignorant as hell. And it seems like you didn’t legitmately comprehend any of my several posts. What does misogyny have to do with any of this? It seems like you’re just throwing random nonsense out there because you don’t like my perspective. Are you trying to say that if someone is very gay-leaning or straight-leaning but only has the desire to have sex and relationships with one gender that means that they’re either a misogynist or contend with internalized homophobia or is having sex with different genders undercover? If I were a very gay-leaning woman and only had relationships and sex with women that would mean that I hate men or I’m secretly having sex with men? So, if you’re not 100% straight or gay (and most people aren’t) you can’t be monogamist or you can’t have preferences or you have to continuously have sex and relationships with different genders? I’m trying to comprehend your purpose of bring misogyny into the mix and your general logic which seems to lack logic.
This nonsense is partially why the lgbtq etc “agenda” is often so misguided and why we can’t have honest, real conversation. As I’ve said quite a few times on this site before, if the focus was more on people understanding the dynamics and dimensions of their sense of gender, ther attractions, desires, passions, romantic instincts, romantic satisfaction, etc. and being real about those things closet cases, race, self-loathing, socialogoical strife, misogyny, misandy, internalized homophobia, etc wouldn’t be as big of a problem for us as they are.
Having a conversation about race, people’s attractions and “preferences”, being inclusive, being “open-minded” and being tactful- that’s all something else. But you can’t make people want to fvck or date the people you wish for them to. There’s nothing progressive about that. That’s totalitarianism. And it simply goes against human nature.
Donston
And most fellow non-white people as well as most women would agree with me on these things. So, let’s not contrive this conversation into being about race or gender privilege.
am_psi
So, do women have to be open to dating men they’re not attracted to? Cause that seems like it would be “problematic”.
S.anderson
No that’s completely different because *mumble mumble*
Jonathan5865
Actually, straight people discuss this quite often. I feel like the implication in your comment is “ohhhh but women get to have racial requirements when dating!!! why not me!!!” When in reality, women who don’t date black men because they think all black men are thugs are called out. Women who put white men on a pedestal get called out.
am_psi
I didn’t say anything about women and racial requirements. My question was about women and ATTRACTION. For some women (and men) attraction is going to be partially effected by race, either positively or negatively, but that wasn’t really my point. We are constantly told that men are not entitled to women’s time / attention / bodies, but going by the authors idea you would think that women must at least give everyone their time and attention equally, regardless of whether they’re attracted to them or not.
Godabed
clearly you didn’t watch the video, or understood what this article is about.
it was about understanding where these racial prejudice come from, and how to make those affected aware of the origin of these racist feelings.
It at no point dictates that people who date white men only or black or asian or whatever nationality or ethnic background you are into, states you have to change that. Or that people in those ethnic groups want you to. But expect if you say something ignorant and racist that people are going to call you out on it. And there are plenty of platforms to do that. All of this is literally in the video….
Donston
Unfortunately, this site has been telling people who they should date and have been gulting people into not having “preferences” for quite a while (despite mostly highlighting white, young and muscular men). It’s not just about this video or “dating” apps. I get where the video is coming from. It’s about the hypocrisy of this site and some misguided aspects of the movement as a whole. For me personally, it’s about people moving on from giving a sh*t about someone’s profile on an app.
CastleSF
Again this video is not going to change anyone’s mind. Like Donston said, our attractions to other human beings are not controlled by our brain or intellect. The other point they are making is, even if you are not attracted to people of a particular race, just don’t say “I am not into Asians”, etc. in your profile because it is rude and unnecessary. Well. it’s about being straightforward and upfront with people. If that hurts some weak-minded people’s feeling, that’s just too bad.
S.anderson
I’m not into leather, piss or BDSM. How RUDE of me to say so! 😀
CastleSF
People who are into fetishes should find their own tribes instead of seducing unsuspecting men to satisfy their fetish. Dark fantasies and questionable practices such as dangerous bondage are truly beneath one’s dignity.
Danny595
CastleSF – Did you notice that all of these articles and debates over “sexual racism” occur in the context of hookup apps. It’s always about Grindr and people’s profiles on Grindr. Yet no one wants to consider that there might be a link b/t “sexual racism” and promiscuity. Specifically, when you are on the hunt for bodies to use for your own pleasure and when you couldn’t care less about the person inside the body, it inevitably leads to very cold, callous ranking based on physical attributes – age, skin color, racial features, height, weight. It’s like buying meat at a butcher’s shop. You don’t get to demand dignity and respect when you have put yourself on the market as a slab of meat.
linniejr
CastleSf,
People say that they are not into older men, black men, etc, yes it’s rude, but it’s real.
I’m a person, that has put on my profiles, that I prefer, black or Latino men, reason being, I was raised around them, and yes I’m black. However that’s not to say I wouldn’t date a white man or a Asian man(Asian being someone from a country on that continent). Many people gay or straight would rather stay in their comfort zone. Sad but it’s so.
CastleSF
@Danny595. Until we become enlightened masters, we all have conditions and preferences for the mate we are seeking. It is not easy to live with this in-your-fact sexuality almost daily when you live in a predominantly gay city. I am sure a lot of gays thrive on it and have no shame for their promiscuity but I just roll my eyes and mind my own business.
CastleSF
@linniejr. I am sure most gays have tried to date people from a race that’s not their first choice. But let’s say if one is really into hairy guys or guys that are well endowed, then Asian guys are not going to fit the bill. If on the other hand, you are intimidated by a bigger than normal penis, you may subconsciously avoid black guys. One can even argue that everything is about race and that’s alright.
Danny595
@CastleSF – It’s true that we will always have preferences. But in a non-promiscuous environment, where you are seeking out human beings as potential long-term partners, the physical preferences are tempered and modified by considerations of personality, humor, interests, morality, etc. When you are hooking up, only the physical matters and you have no particualr need or interest to be kind in stating them. Thus, promiscuous environments are far more likely to result in a brutal ranking based on race. But these promiscuous clowns can’t see what is right in front of their face. So they demand that Grindr be kinder, which is like demanding a cleaner sewer.
Xzamilloh
I will never care about a white man not wanting to date me. I just don’t. Hoping a white guy pays attention to me just isn’t something that keeps me up at night, and these videos would have more merit if it didn’t ring like it always does: Love me, white daddy. Value me the way I value you.
Also, a lot of these prominent POCs on the internet always talking about race are themselves with white partners, like Franchesca Ramsey, Kat Blaque, and blah blah blah. I just find it weird how vitriolic they can start to sound about white people and then BAM, that’s what they’re attracted to, so it feels like an identity crisis thing to me. Kinda like Tomi Lahren… she’s constantly raging about BLM and black crime, but she likes the brown stuff.
Xzamilloh
And like I’ve said before, it’s that I wouldn’t date a white guy, I just haven’t. Despite the Uncle Tom moniker I’ve gained for speaking frankly, I do predominantly prefer other black men over other races. Black, then latino (Dominican or Puerto Rican), and then Korean. And if it’s a white guy, Irish or Scottish, something with an edge. Or Wayne Brady. He’s the perfect white.
Donston
It’s mostly black men who rag on guys who only date white dudes. Mostly black women who rag on guys who only date white/Latino women. When are sites like these gonna go after those types and their “preferences” as well? And heteros don’t feel this pressure and shame towards multi racial dating. Yes, some people are driven by things like prejudice/racism, self-loathing, socialogy, fetish, etc. But for the most part that’s not what people are driven by when it comes to the race or races they don’t or do don’t date.
Xzamilloh
That’s a question I’ve always had… why is it only a preference for white guys, when I’ve met my fair share of POCs who only date white and discount their own race, but it’s never a problem in general… just within their race. But it’s like who cares!!! Date who you want. To think you can shame someone into finding you attractive or wanting to date you? Plus, I’d rather someone tell me right off the bat what kind of person they are, and save me the time of finding out in having my face cracked.
mhoffman953
It’s Queerty’s way of shaming people into their dating preferences. I personally don’t care if someone says “no blacks”, “no whites”, “no asians”, “no fems”, “no fats”, etc.
Just days ago, Queerty said that if white men want to date someone from a different race, they’re “fetishizing” that race and are racist. Now if a white person doesn’t want to date or sleep with someone from another race, they are still racist.
Jaxton
People should be entitled to have whatever personal preferences they have so long as it’s personal. Sexual desire is based on personal.
You don’t force a man who is sexually attracted to men to have sex with a woman in the name of gender equality, do you?
S.anderson
I prefer other men like myself. Not women. Apparently, I’m sexist? 😀
NO. That isn’t how it works, ya chucklef**ks.
It might be “racist” if I were denying men of color the ability to speak and seek as they like, but I am only choosing for myself. Following my lifelong instincts. And I refuse to be shamed about my tastes, nor will I be silenced about expressing myself. My tastes do change and evolve, but they do so on MY timetable, not some hungry bastard’s.
It would be racist and wrong if a profile said “no ***(racial_slur)”. I am aware many men use strong language in their profiles, but in my personal experience this is because many idiots doggedly ignore profile interests. What’s the point, boys? You think if you take a shot at him anyway, you’ll win him over to your team? More likely, the idiots are doing it to annoy. And, I see this accusation of “racism” to be an escalation of the same petulant game.
I’m baffled about what lonely minorities (of any sort) are seeking here. Do they believe that a social taboo against putting one’s preferences out there will lead to more funfun for them? It won’t. They can either feel rejected up front and not waste time on men who aren’t interested, or they can be turned down and/or ghosted directly by their victim. No-one’s hearts or minds will be “opened up” to new and exciting things if cruisers are forced to say “UGH – no thanks” personally.
I mean, think about what it all means. Is there a group of men so hungry and lonely that they’ll settle for pursuit of other men who are flatly uninterested? Do they believe that people develop their preferences mostly upon observing other’s? And if there were a ban on saying “no fats, fems, asians or blacks” that people simply wouldn’t “learn” to be adverse to them?
I’ll tell you what one of my major preferences is: No dudes who tell me who I should and shouldn’t want to put my dick in. It’s obvious.
Nowuvedoneit
Don’t think every minority wants to sleep with you. Think most people get it in their head they are these sex gods when in fact your not. Odds are no one finds you that attractive. Minorities probably look right past you. Shoot most white men probably look right past you too.
S.anderson
@Nowuvedoneit: Obviously, you’re one of the pests that wants to hurt me because I made them feel unwanted. Nice try. I have no sympathy for you.
Nowuvedoneit
Uhm Anderson. I’m already taken and don’t want or need you. Like the said most people think they are sooo attractive but aren’t. So ya keep your pasty self in whatever place you live.
S.anderson
Uhm Nowuvedoneit. Once again, you’re clearly fixated on your desirability and whether you can hurt someone else for making you feel unwanted. Now you’re even more undesirable, frustrated and unwanted. Your move.
Xzamilloh
Ugh, with this stupid ass “Is it sexist that I don’t like women” retort!!
It’s so dumb. Dude, for the last time, you’re discounting ALL women because you’re gay. She could be the exact embodiment of what you like in a guy and you wouldn’t want her because. she. has. a. vagina. You don’t like vaginas of any race, size, shape or appeal. So enough with that shitty “gotcha” because it’s not a gotcha.
And the word is “averse.” God, if you’re going to walk around with an undeserved arrogance, at least know how to use words.
I’m not even against what you said about your preferences, because YOU are exactly why I would want people to be honest from the jump, because I would want to avoid someone like you. No offense tee hee.
ChrisK
@Nowuvedoneit. Wow. Tone the anger down.
Nowuvedoneit
Full disclosure I’m a gay Latino man married to a white man. I didn’t set out to land a white man I just happened to fall in love with him. Before my husband I tasted all the colors of the rainbow. But the one overriding factor was I found them attractive.
I don’t find all white men attractive nor black, Latino or Asian men. But I don’t say I won’t find someone attractive because of their race. That’s because that’s racism.
But if you is ugly and most people are ugly you’re not going to get many people to sleep with you.
S.anderson
FULL full disclosure: you’re a whining bitch with low self-esteem who loves having a platform to legitimize your sad, sad crusade against men who won’t overlook your flaws and give you a chance. Bye, Felicia.
dwes09
“But if you is ugly and most people are ugly you’re not going to get many people to sleep with you.”
Rather odd statement. Hopefully a typo of some sort. But someone who finds most people ugly is seriously messed up. Ugly is as rare as great beauty, and like it, can easily come from within. And beauty does not necessarily equate to sexual attractiveness, as that is usually modified by other things.
Nowuvedoneit
S.Anderson pot meet kettle. Idgaf two cents what you think. No one wants you and your racist white ass. Get it? This video wasn’t talking about you being the one white gay minority’s want. It was pointing out that it’s racism to write off an entire group of people. Silly white racist as always making it about themselves.
S.anderson
Nowuvedoneit: Since when am I white, and what difference would my ethnicity make? You. Racist. F**k.
MaxH
I like guys with pale skin, straight hair, narrow noses, and thinner lips. Black people don’t have these features, unless you use the American definition of black, which seems to include white people with minimal black ancestry. FYI, the “one drop rule”, is not a thing.
These are my preferences, they are not racist, and I am not obliged to have sex with a dark skinned person.
Nowuvedoneit
Anderson your attempts at trollling are as ridiculous as your belief people find you hot. You obviously are hurt by the truth otherwise you wouldn’t be cursing as much. Dismissed racist white man.
Nowuvedoneit
MaxH don’t be afraid to call if what it is and that’s racism. You like white features and it’s ok, you’re racist. I like knowing who the racists are. Be proud just like S.Anderson. Be racists together.
S.anderson
You were dismissed back when I said “Bye, Felicia.”
surreal33
The foundation of America is RACISM, therefore, no revelation that the gay community is teeming with RACISM!!!
Heywood Jablowme
You make quite a case, Mr. Surreal.. Sounds like there’s nothing we can do about it? Oh well. 🙂
Aires the Ram
The foundation of this country is FREEDOM. Freedom from religious oppression, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of association, freedom to overthrow the government if it became totalitarian and oppressive, freedom to be, whatever social/economic class you came from, freedom to become whatever the hell you wanted to be, based on your own abilities. This country was not founded on ‘racism’, as you so ignorantly state. Learn some history. Read about our Founding Fathers so you can understand why they fought so hard to make this country, and write our Constitution. Your contention that this country was founded on racism, shows your ignorance of American history, your ignorance of world history. Get an education.
Danny595
Referring to the USA as America is totally racist, you racist!
ChrisK
I guess all the many other countries the refer to the US as America are all racist too.
dwes09
I have watched a number of her videos, and although sometimes simplistic and knee jerk, she often gets it right. Here she stumbles from the get go. First of all, these are not (be real folks) “dating” apps. They are overwhelmingly for hook ups where personality comes into play only after the deed is done, if at all. So, no, a preference for hair color, height, body type, complexion, nose shape, dick size, age, body modifications and so on, even ethnicity, are not indications of internalized racism any more than a gay man not wanting to play with a woman, or a trans man with female genitals is internalized sexism!
Do we demonize those who have any physical preferences and those who have gender preferences (as lesbian and gay people clearly do) or age preferences (as almost everyone does). If you don’t want sexual contace with the obese, is that “body shaming” or “looksism”. Are we to claim that any limiting sexual taste is bad? And what about the opposite? Fetishizing is worse in my book because it undeniably dehumanizes, reducing people to one specific dimension for both sex and relationship. Physical preferences do not.
There is an enormous difference between wanting specific needs met on a “dating” app and being unwilling to explore where personal affinity might lead when meeting someone in a more normal venue (like a party or event) based on ethnicity. And in all venues there are ways to say “no thank you” without being a dick.
S.anderson
Saying “no thank you” without being a dick is to be encouraged. Also, if someone says “no (you)”, then leave them alone and don’t waste your energy campaigning to get everyone to stop saying “no (you)” because that hurts your fifis.
Josh447
“she”. That’s gender racist if I ever heard it.
Coreydnyc
Did anyone even watch the video? All it’s saying is that our “preference” was born of racism and maybe you should look into that. All these people making a stink about doing that, really do sound like that “str8” guy who FREAKS when someone calls him gay, and we all know what those people turn out to be.
Racism EXISTS, and it exists in all races even against their own race it’s ingrained. just admit your racist everyone is including myself. (of course to varying degrees)
S.anderson
I’d go halfway here and concede that someone’s preference in partners could be influenced by the racist beliefs they were brought up among. But to say that these preferences are always, or even mostly due to racism is tragically misguided.
Coreydnyc
I think here’s where we’ll have to agree to disagree …maybe racial prejudice is a better word, I’m not talking about the overt Alt Right types of prejudice but more of an underlying systematic type.
I think the same could be said for overweight people, White people, Asian people etc.
Why were overweight women more attractive and sought after in the 1800 and when/why did that shift?
I’m just saying we have to ask ourselves why we have these prejudices. No shame, no accusations, just why? there is something shaping your preferences
CastleSF
I don’t believe that any effort to understand what shapes our sexual and racial preferences is going to alter these preferences in any meaningful way. Is the effort worthwhile? Probably. At the end of the day, however, we are still attracted to what our heart reveals, not what our mind dictates.
Coreydnyc
is it woth while depends n the person of course…I would say someone with children may want put more worth into not continuing a prejudice cycle. But to sit there and deny what is happening does yourself a disservice more than it does anyone else and that’s OK you do you
Brody
If you don’t like [fill in the blank] you’re a racist, if you do like them you’re guilty of “fetishizing” them.
PC gay doctrine, in a nutshell.
Chevelter
“As if they were captive to some mystical romantic force that naturally discriminates…” Just like, um, I’m not sexually attracted to WOMEN. * SEXIST ME! *
Coreydnyc
my god man think! its not mystical, it’s right in front of you. are you suggesting that your preferences are not shaped by something, that they just appear out of the blue?
tnguy222
Standards of beauty are absolutely a product of racism and power. Those in power portray themselves as desirable, while denigrating the “other” in order to maintain the status quo. With that said, there are universally attractive features (i.e., a symmetrical face, high cheek bones, full hair and teeth).
In my experience, the people who are either upset about being rejected based on ‘race’ and those who are doing the rejecting are both generally physically unattractive groups of people.
It’s ironic; those who meet society’s expectations of beauty (physically attractive people) are not constrained by such standards, while those who fall short are obsessed with them. We all want that which we cannot have.
Aires the Ram
Standards of beauty are NOT the product of racism and power. Standards of beauty are different in every culture, every country, every race, and have been so over time immortal. As the world changes, as cultures change, as races mix and merge and assimilate into others, standards of beauty are fleeting, always changing. If you contend that if you’re not found attractive by someone of another race than yours, and all you can do is screech “racist”, then you swallowed, hook, line & sinker, the current SJW mentality of screaming ‘racism’ at anyone you don’t like, anyone you disagree with, anyone who disagrees with you, anyone who doesn’t like you. It’s shallow, it shows you have no concrete argument, and shows your lack of education.
tnguy222
Man, you quite literally agreed with me. You sound like a pretty dense person, so try to follow.
Since as you assert correctly, standards of beauty change based on culture and place, then there must be some group establishing such standards, right? Invariably, the racial group in power is dictating what is attractive.
For instance, in Byzantine Constantinople, the murals are of Caucasians, yet after the Turkish conquests, the illustrations of people are with the more circular faced, Asiatic features of the Turks. This is not an anomaly and repeats itself throughout time.
The race in charge portrays itself as beautiful, intelligent, and often divine (i.e., Aryan Jesus) in order to legitimize its authority over the ruled. Beauty becomes a source of power, as a means to perpetuate supremacy.
Did you follow that? Or are you just a intellectual lost cause?
Danny595
When someone makes empirical claims about the origins of sexual attraction in the entire gay and bi male population, you really want to see his credentials and his background in medicine and/or psychology.
“Dylan Marron is a . . . writer, performer, and video maker. He is the voice of Carlos on the hit podcast Welcome to Night Vale . . .”
MrKnowItAll
He is also the guy who wrote about Trumps Hair being thinning and looking hysterical in the wind. Other award winning pieces include “Cuckolding is having a serious moment right now”, so yeah, lets give him the credibility he deserves.
PinkoOfTheGange
Excellent School House Rock on sociology.
And.
Life’s a banquette and most poor sons-of-bitches are starving to death.
But.
Stop politicizing orgasms.
Ummmm Yeah
If you don’t understand pushing this constantly is sexual harassment against gays, then you are probably a rapist.
tham
Umm, this is an another false equivalency. Attraction is interactive. Yes you can find a guy “hot” from a picture. BUT…
If you don’t hear their voice and see them in person AND YES smell them (there’s these things call pheromones). You’ll never be attracted to them.
I never dated interracially until I met this one guy that I just could get out of my head. Charming, smile that would just put a smile on your own face.
So yeah, if you’re only going to met people through apps, then you’ll only be attracted to those types that you spend the most time with when you’re off this apps.
You want to end racism when dating? Then go out, grab a beer, and intermingle with a group of different people.
bbg372
Evolutionary biology suggests that because the first people groups were families, individuals sought partners who looked like themselves, because they associated people with a similar genetic profile as being “safe.”
The process is known as assortative mating, and the result is genetic sexual attraction. Humans later developed reverse sexual imprinting, known as the Westermarck Effect, to prevent inbreeding. It is why close blood relatives are often overwhelmingly attracted to one another if they meet for the first time as adults.
So while social factors may have a negligible influence on the characteristics one find desirable, his attractions are largely the result of thousands of years of human evolutionary biology, and complete outside of his control.
tnguy222
If that were the case, then why is there interracial attraction at all? The effect of society on attraction must be profound, and not merely “negligible,” if it is to override thousands of years of evolutionary conditioning, right ?
S.anderson
I think it’s even simpler in these times. We’re attracted to things which caught our attention during hormonal peaks at puberty. And repelled by things which brought us trauma. It involves imprinting, and we have no way to ensure/arrange for our young to acquire our culture’s concept of normal behavior spontaneously. That could explain the emphasis of cultures on “correct behavior” after the fact.
bbg372
Interracial relationships represent approximately 9% of relationships overall.
In some cases, interracial attraction can be problematic. There is a sociological phenomenon in which characteristics that are considered “exotic” by the larger culture become eroticized. In other words, people fetishize racial differences, and are not interested in people of different races as romantic partners, but only as sexual ones.
Further, studies of partners who have been together for 50 years or more find there is a correlation between facial similarity and long-term relationships, which supports the notion of genetic sexual attraction. As does the anecdotal phenomenon of “boyfriend twins.” It is not narcissism that is driving their mate selection, it is thousands of years of human evolutionary biology telling them to pick someone who looks like them.
cleancut123
Still not convinced no matter how how hard you are trying to push this based on pseudo-scientific arguments. People should not be shamed for whom they choose not to sleep with. It is an utterly personal choice that does not deprive the other party of any freedoms or rights, and is thus no one else’s business.
S.anderson
I think you said it very well there.
The problem isn’t in stating one’s preferences respectfully.
It’s in how poorly some people respond to rejection.
And we seem to have a movement among rejects who think they’re empowering themselves by proposing that people can’t hurt their feelings.
gymmuscleboy
@S.anderson Well said. This victim mentality is very popular these days and it seems a whole lot of us are tired of it.
CastleSF
@anderson. It is true that rejection triggers some very powerful emotion, which in turn makes the person being rejected bitter and resentful. Many people, depending on their life experience, are ill equipped for handling the hurt feeling of being rejected. There are times we just have to make it clear abut what is true for us but often it’s kindness and respect that will serve us well in the end.
demetreus
As a gay black man, I whole-heartedly understand what this piece is trying to say. But to call someone racist because of their sexual preference, is not always fair and not always true.
I have a best friend who is Jewish and he has never hooked up with a black man. He just doesn’t have the sexual desire for it. And yes, it is a part of his up-bringing. But would anyone dare to call him a racist? Hell no! We would give our lives for eachother and our friendship goes beyond any black or white standard.
But if a black man approached him and tried to hit on him, he would be genuinely flattered. You know why? Because he isn’t a prick and he has manners and respect for human emotions.
Nonetheless, I feel like we are beating a dead horse. In life, you should always surround yourself around people who are kind-hearted and who have empathy and acceptance for things they may not necessarily understand.
Plain and simple. You don’t like me, then I don’t like you. Next!
Polaro
This entire concept is wrong and misunderstands what racism is. Racism: the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races. Not typically being attracted to people of a certain race is not racism.
Attraction is attraction. If a person does not float your boat, they don’t. That’s not the same as thinking a person is less capable because of their race. This is such nonsense to conflate the two things. I’m not attracted to fat people; doesn’t mean I hate them. I’m not attracted to people who don’t bath. WTF. This is all nonsense. Based on race, there are fewer black men that I am attracted to; but there are some. It just is what it is. If I was racist, in the context of this discussion, I would be attracted to none. But, once again, the entire concept is nonsense to stir crap up.
Why am I less attracted to black men? I don’t know, and your whining won’t change it; it will just piss me off.
projo
Would it be preferable if you had a fetish for a certain race (e.g. the white guy who told me I really wasn’t Latino b/c I sounded white rather than like a cholo and that was a turn off? ) rather than being genuinely open to all?
There are a lot of fetish players out there – they want stereotypical Asian rice queens or super hung black dudes or a gang banger Mexican. That’s even worse than just saying I’m attracted to this race for genuine reasons,
gaym50ish
This type of debate is just dumb. We all go for whatever characteristics attract us. Period.
Notright
You’re sexist because you prefer men over women!
Notright
Preferences are not f*%*ing racist! So then are all gay men sexist because they have a preference for men over women? I read a good article about this very subject in fact and he made some good points https://www.therainbowright.com/the-new-gay-agenda-preference-shaming/ . What this really boils down to is some people are mad because they’re not as desirable as they’d like to be . As a result they’re trying to shame everyone else for not giving them the attention that they want.
Brody
And you, sir, should win a prize for your astute observation that sexual preference is not racial . . . but try telling that to the SJWs who believe it’s their duty to browbeat the populace into thinking the way they do.
CastleSF
So it is not even OK to have sexual preferences for people of a certain race? It seems that the same people who are so against “fetishizing” a race group have no problem with their own people having unsafe and promiscuous group sex as long as they pop a PrEP pill. These people don’t care if they are spreading terrible syphilis, anti-bacteria resistant gonorrhea, and the worst HepC, causing taxpayer’s millions of dollars to treat them. They will accuse you of slut shaming them when you shine a light on their reckless and disease spreading behaviors while still refusing to practice safe sex or have committed relationships. Can these people be called alt-left?
demetreus
@CastleSF – Millions of tax payers dollars are being spent on treating STD’s for a group of “people” that you are speaking about?????? Who are the ” people” you are referring to?
markinwashington
I agree with you, preferences does not equal racism. Everyone is inclined to have their views on this as we can’t control what makes us “tick” down there. I would even go far as to believe it’s not racist to even STATE your preferences. As long as it doesn’t disparage a group stating -No Blacks, Asians, Fats, whatever. And no, it does not boil down to guilt or shame over desirability but it boils down to respect. Most gay men have experienced judgement at some point in their lives at least once so it’s fair to say that we should be the most sensitive when it comes to being an inclusive and accepting segment of society (Yeah right). This doesn’t mean sleeping with a someone that you’re clearly not attracted to, but embrace your preferences without being negative or hostile towards others.
Herman75
Expecting gays to never be racist and always vote Democrat shows a bit of ignorance, doesn’t it? Perhaps we are just like everyone else, for better or worse.
Polaro
A+ for missing the point.
jasentylar
No one is shaming anyone. That’s an emotion you’re feeling all on your own. I had a preference against dating men that were Asian as I just didn’t feel as if I would be attracted to them. Then, I met quite a few that changed that. I realized that I had shut down the possibility of connecting with a group of people for no other reason than their race. That is racism. Feel about it however you want. Date whomever you like.
Polaro
Insulting is more like it.
S.anderson
Shaming isn’t about actually feeling ashamed, only that someone is pushing that lever to manipulate you.
Yeah, actually shaming is the go-to tool for the LGBTQ movement today. Shame works. It’s what kept us quiet about our sexuality before we came out, and it’s what keeps us in line so we don’t get cast out and left alone again. Bunch of trembling sheep led by nameless self-appointed LGBTQ leaders from on high.
demetreus
We as gay people, really need to start growing up and developing ourselves better. We are a group of people who are supposed to see outside of a narrow perception. Because of the struggles that many of us have to go through, we need to show more empathy to eachother. Stop defining yourself by the color of penis that goes in your mouth! Embrace diversity in the Community. Regardless of race, we all have shit we have to put up: Coming out, dealing with shame, facing discrimination.
A group of people discriminating eachother when the rest of fhe world is discriminating them? Its a race to the finish with no prize awarded and no destination.
Think about it. Look in the mirror. What will be the impact you leave in this world?
gymmuscleboy
@demetreus I want my impact on the world to be dating people that I’m not actually attracted to. That way I will be doing what I think society wants me to do, and so I will like myself more.
I hope others can find it in their heart to do the same.
Tobi
Bollocks.
I’ve had a long-term relationship with a Black guy, and slept with a few Asians and Latinos in my time.
However, having lived in India, am friends with dozens of Indians, met thousands and seen millions, none of them do anything for my dick, despite my ability to find many of them incredibly beautiful.
It’s the same with redheads, I go to Ireland and Scotland regularly, again see some stunning gingers, but again, down below, not a twitch.
It isn’t racism, I’m not disparaging nor disadvantaging Indians or Redheads as a group, I’m just not having sex with individuals from these groups.
OK, that said, I think it would be gauche to put No Indians, No Redheads on a hookup profile, but in truth, I get that it would save time, for both sides.
DuMaurier
Quite a reaction! I’ll be brief and just restate what others here have already said: nobody’s being told to have sex with people they’re not attracted to, they’re just being asked to examine race-based attractions with a little more depth than, “It’s just the way I feel! I can’t help it!” Yes, but….why?
And no, race-based attraction is NOT the same as preferring tall or short, slim or bulky, etc etc.
S.anderson
I’ll be even briefer: A black activist woman and a fey homosexual tell us that we’re racist if we put “no fats, fems blacks” in our grindr profiles.
gymmuscleboy
Race-based attraction is NOT the same as preferring tall or short, slim or bulky? Says who?
moonie
I am an gay Asian male and i am sick to death about your racism rubbish.I do not need you to speak up on behalf of us and do not presume you have the right to speak up on behalf of the other races. I am perfectly okay with people having their preferences. If they do not like Asians, it is their loss, not mine. I am fine with men of all colors, open to dating any but i still have my preferences and i do not find anything wrong with that.
S.anderson
Now here come the politically correct scolds to tell you that you suffer from internalized racism. Poor thing!
sydboy007
So we need to become like those living in the brave new world. After all, ‘everyone belongs to everyone else’. People are encouraged to seek out as many partners as they want, and it is considered antisocial to deny the advances of another.
CastleSF
“People are encouraged to seek out as many partners as they want”. That’s a brave new world? It sounds more like a world of promiscuity and debauchery.
S.anderson
CastleSF: I tend to think sydboy is being sardonic. He’s referencing the setup in Aldous Huxley’s “A Brave New World” (the book or 1998 movie, not the wretched 2014 remake).
I certainly don’t think the State should be setting our sexuality standards, let alone punishing us for failing to meet them. But, I think the world would be better off without all the slut-shaming and conservative bluster about sexual practices. Stop doing the dirty work of the State and Church for them.
Sex is healthy and positive as long as no-one is being damaged or manipulated. Promiscuity and debauchery aren’t any of my business.
gymmuscleboy
“When you hear someone say they’re not attracted to Race X, they’re relying on racial generalisations perpetuated by systemic racism”. Says who? That’s like saying the only reason I’m not attracted to the elderly is because of systemic discrimination; if it weren’t for societal discrimination, I would automatically want to date 70+ year olds. Yep, discrimination is the only thing keeping me from being attracted to the elderly… WTF???
Folks, the west is the only part of the world so effed up that it is discrimination not to find someone attractive. All trans/genders, all races, all demographics – we must pretend to desire them equally or we will be demonised!