Hardly a day goes by lately without a member of the Stonewall team attempting damage control by posting a message that defends the upcoming historical drama against activists who are calling for a boycott, certain that this cinematic retelling of the 1969 riots in New York City — the pivotal moment in the queer rights movement — has been “whitewashed” of its important trans players, such as late icon Marsha P. Johnson. It should be noted — once again — that these angry LGBTs haven’t yet seen the full film and they’re taking this stance based solely on viewing the film’s music video trailer. We’ve heard from director Roland Emmerich, who says his movie “deeply honors the real-life activists who were there — including Marsha P. Johnson, Sylvia Rivera, and Ray Castro.” Screenwriter Jon Robin Baitz insists this version of the Stonewall riots is “is not the definitive story of a revolution” but it’s “about an awakening, one young manâs awakening to the reality of what it means to be âthe otherâ.” Now, Stonewall‘s star Jeremy Irvine, who plays that awakened young man, Danny, a fictional character, has joined the counter-protest with a message posted on his Instagram account in which he not only defends the depiction of the events (Jonathan Rhys Meyer’s character represents the influential Mattachine Society, but praises his director’s sensitivity to the story and the portrayals of his costars.
Related: Larry Kramer To âCraziesâ Boycotting Stonewall Film: âWhere The F**k Were You?!â
Read Irvine’s message in its entirety below then scroll down for a couple of stills for the film that have just begun to circulate and which feature characters of color.
David Jarrett
I want to see the film. To hell with the PC bullshit regarding the trailer and those who have NEVER seen the film. Nothing is perfect.
SeeingAll
“Oh yucky ! A cisgender white male defending a cisgender white director and a cisgender white character !! Big surprise! He needs to check his privilege big time, honey..”, is what we’ll probably see to this.
Ron Loftus
oh baby lower your volume.. cutie
Kamuriie
Trans people are always trying to piss in everyone’s cheerios and make increasingly silly demands, and wonder why we don’t make all our demands centered around *them* getting what they want.
SeeingAll
alien : you didn’t notice I put that in quotes
RiBrad
These boycott “activists” really need to get a grip and learn which battles to pick. The Stonewall film is not your enemy!
Clark35
@SeeingAll: Exactly who cares what that twinkie says.
aliengod
@SeeingAll: My apologies! I overlooked that. đ
Clark35
Asexuals are the most oppressed members of the LGBTQIAGFSM community.
They are not permitted to teach public school in 32 states and are unfairly accused of ârecruiting because they cannot reproduce.â
They are erased more often than bisexuals, hated by heterosexuals, and shunned by gay gymn rats as if they were old drag queens out in daylight with five oâclock shadow. The Aâs have the highest suicide rate in the LBJFK community (although still only once per person), and are incorrectly blamed for the rise in the rate of Lesbian Bed Death.
We need to lobby Congress so that Obamacare will pay to put Asexual children on puberty blockers as it is far easier for a person who detests sex to go through life with the undeveloped genitalia of a child.
The lack of support for Aâs by the BLT community is especially shameful for if asexuals hadnât started the Stonewall Riots, we would all still be slaves picking cotton in the Mississippi Delta.
SeeingAll
Actually, I would guess that Emmerich and the writers know that making the main character a gay Midwesterner who arrives in NYC works for adding more juice to the film. We get the contrast between where he comes from and his new setting, we get to see more than one location, etc.
gaym50ish
Here is what Stonewall historian David Carter said about Marsha and Sylvia in an interview published on GayToday.com:
Paul D. Cain: Where’s Sylvia Rivera? Duberman’s Stonewall placed her at the bar on the first night of the riots, yet your book makes absolutely no mention of her (although you do mention her buddy, Marsha P. Johnson). Do you think that, like so many others, she fabricated her remarks about being there?
David Carter: Yes, I am afraid that I could only conclude that Sylvia’s account of her being there on the first night was a fabrication. Randy Wicker told me that Marsha P. Johnson, his roommate, told him that Sylvia was not at the Stonewall Inn at the outbreak of the riots as she had fallen asleep in Bryant Park after taking heroin. (Marsha had gone up to Bryant Park, found her asleep, and woke her up to tell her about the riots.) Playwright and early gay activist Doric Wilson also independently told me that Marsha Johnson had told him that Sylvia was not at the Stonewall Riots.
Sylvia also showed a real inconsistency in her accounts of the Stonewall Riots. In one account she claimed that the night the riots broke out was the first time that she had ever been at the Stonewall Inn; in another account she said that she had been there many times. In one account she said that she was there in drag; in another account she says that she was not in drag. She told Martin Duberman that she went to the Stonewall Inn the night the riots began to celebrate Marsha Johnson’s birthday, but Marsha was born in August, not June. I also did not find one credible witness who saw her there on the first night.
aliengod
@Clark35: Wow! You’ve gone total batshit crazy! WTF is LGBTQIAGFSM? LBJFK? Lesbian Bed Death? The Bacon Lettuce Tomato community doesn’t support A’s? Asexuals started the Stonewall Riots?
Do you live in Narnia?
Jim Van Matre
Good for him. No one has even seen the movie yet so they should shut the fuck up.
SeeingAll
@aliengod: Dude !! He’s goofing. I agree with your views, but you gotta get more of a sense of humor !
Atrius
I’m just not interested.
aliengod
@SeeingAll: I agree with @Clark35 on many of the posts/comments on this site. I thought my reply was somewhat humorous as well. I guess I’m just off today. Win some, lose some.
SeeingAll
@aliengod: oh, okay (my…blunder..?) Whichever.
Cam
The Trans Activists, who seem to do nothing but attack gays, lesbians, and bi’s are trying apparently to erase the contribution of the person who really started the riot, a mixed race lesbian Drag King named StormĂŠ DeLarverie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm%C3%A9_DeLarverie
And of course the Trans activists hate her, she is two of their lest favorite, most hated things. A lesbian, and somebody who does drag. No wonder they’re trying to lie and erase her from history.
pjm1
@gaym50ish: thanks, good info and consistent
with what i have read. It also seems well documented that Marsaha Johnson WAS there the
first night and may have in fact started the first physical resistance of the police when she
threw a shot glass at the mirror — which does seem plausible. Consistent with what you know/
read?
Evji108
@Clark35: I’m afraid if you are A-Sexual your’re just going to have to lump it and be invisible. People don’t get to be known for doing nothing. Having no sex at all is a non-issue, a big fat Zero. If your sex life is a ZERO, you get left out of the sex party. Recognition is for people that show up, not for people who stay home, watch TV and go to bed early – it’s fine, but don’t expect to get credit for it.
Dieter Michaels
So… white star who plays fictional white hero says we shouldnt believe the movie was whitewashed?… how white of him.
FancyUsername
A small amount of logic would perhaps reduce the âoutrageâ over this trailer. Irvineâs character is known as an audience surrogate – a fictional character that allows for greater audience identification with the events being depicted. Using a real person can invite criticism from those who knew or were related to the person in question, although this is still the case in many biopics – itâs simply the filmmakers choice. However, Stonewall is the story of an event, not of any one person. An audience surrogate also allows the narrative to be streamlined, which is necessary when depicting certain actual events within a 120 minute time frame. It can result in a stronger and more coherent story, which makes the film far more palatable to a wider audience. And wouldnât you want as wide an audience as possible to see this film?
SeeingAll
@Cam: There’s some question as to what role DeLarverie actually played in the Stonewall event (like with so much else about Stonewall), but….definitely an interesting (and sort of elegant) personality. For a time she lived at the Chelsea Hotel (when NYC was still cool).
SeeingAll
@FancyUsername: An “audience surrogate”. Thank you. I knew there had to be a term for that kind of character.
Lance Mullholland
A trailer is a brief “tease”. Sometimes, trailers are (unfortunately) better than the entire movie because the rest can be really awful !
Can we wait to see this film in its entirety? OF COURSE we can !
Not only do we live in an instant gratification world, but we blindly speculate on what we don’t already think we know. It’s the sign of a regressive society, or if you choose to be vulgar: DUMMY DOWN childishness.
An-tih-sih-PAY-shun can be FUN !
Steve George
How to get free publicity 101.
Cam
@SeeingAll:
You are.Absolutely correct, I believe that account more because unlike some of the others, there seem to be multiple corroborating witnesses to what happened to her, AND the Trans activists seem to become angrier when they are trying to hide the truth.
erasure25
White people circling the wagons!!
Tobi
I’d think out of the 20,000,000+ people who attended the Stonewall-Not-Much-Of-A-Riot they could have thrown the dogs a bone and included at least a T or two in the film. *sigh*
J Wesley Mays
Hey, @Dieter Michaels, Mr. NoH8 (in the profile pic as of the typing of this remark), stop hating.
Perfect solution: pirate the movie so you ca view it safe in the knowledge you haven’t given money to a potentially skewed depiction of the events and then decide whether “white star” was just being “white”.
Avery Alvarez
Jeremy Irvine shouldn’t care about those people.
They are mentally ill.
They weren’t at Stonewall, but their narrative was that it was a black transgender event, with drag queens and lesbians doing all the fighting, but no gay men, or should I say “white cis gay men” were there, except for maybe on the sidelines.
No photographic evidence from that time depicts this narrative, tho. I don’t see that narrative in any of the photos from that time.
I thought the trailer depicted a diverse cast, and showed many of the people allegedly taken out.
But social justice warriors aren’t happy unless you pamper, and coddle them, and tell them they are special little snowflakes and wrap them in bubble wrap because the world is such a big, offensive place for them.
meghanada
Stonewall historian David Carter:
“My research for this history demonstrates that if we wish to name the group most responsible for the success of the riots, it is the young, homeless homosexuals, and, contrary to the usual characterizations of those on the rebellionâs front lines, most were Caucasian; few were Latino; almost none were transvestites or transsexuals; most were effeminate; and a fair number came from middle-class families.”
The outrage-mongers are wrong – as often, SJWs rant from the standpoint of slighted imaginary righteousness, not that of knowledge.
mike1982
@Kamuriie: @Kamuriie: What a stupid thing to say.
mujerado
@gaym50ish: Thanks for your contribution. It agrees with what I’ve heard/read. It’s just like the people who, after the fact, make themselves Obama supporters or attendees at Woodstock. For anyone who wants to know the truth of Stonewall, David Carter’s book is in a class by itself.
mujerado
@Avery Alvarez: You’re right. In fact there’s only one photograph known to be from the first night of the riots, and it shows the backs of two policemen facing a small group of the people who were on the street that night. Nothing about the demographics of the rioters can be deduced from it. There are other photographs of the subsequent nights and others outside the Stonewall afterward. Events like that didn’t get the instant media coverage we’re used to today. Even most gay people didn’t know there had been any riots in New York until several days later. It was only seen as the flashpoint of the gay rights movement in hindsight.
Clark35
@aliengod: It’s a joke.
Dan Prescott
I can’t wait to pay money and see it!
Clark35
@gaym50ish: True, everyone and their mom literally claims to have been at Stonewall not as a regular patron of the bar, but there during the nights of the riots, and have participated in the; but few people who claim to have actually been at them really were including both Sylvia Rivera, and the charlatan and sham guy Eliot Tiber who claims he started the Woodstock music festival.
Robert Rupp
Behind you Jeremy. It’s Shame in our community people try to divide instead of unite for the sake of a small personal agend. Really sad. Of kind of pathetic
Josh447
“Cis” is a derogatory and offensive sissy term. Drop it. Many feel it is an offensive gender derogatory gesture based in anger to dehuminize.
Will Moor
@Dieter Michaels: Did you purposely fulfill SeeingAll’s expectations almost word for word?
Cam
@erasure25: said…. “White people circling the wagons!!”
____________
Interesting that pointing out that a black, lesbian, who was performing there as a Drag King is somehow “White People Circling the Wagons.”
Keep on lying to yourself, your lies were exposed, and it is people like you who are trying to erase what that lesbian did, her name was StormĂŠ DeLarverie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm%C3%A9_DeLarverie
So let me ask you, why are YOU trying to erase the bravery of what she did and lie about what happened?
gskorich
another example of the trans community over reacting. it’s time to take the ‘T’ out of LGBT and get back to LGB.
Clark35
@gskorich: I know trans people who feel as though the T should be taken out or away from LGB as well.
Talking with trans people is like thermonuclear war. The only way to win is not to play. Whatever you say, no matter what it is and what your intentions are, it will offend them. Because they thrive on being offended. It gives them permission to externalize their rage. And they enjoy the power that comes with being a moral judge over others. So they will look for any opportunity to be offended. If you donât provide it, they will invent it. If you abide by all of their âtrans etiquetteâ rules, they will invent new rules or change the old rules.
If you find yourself caught in a trans attack, whatever you do, donât apologize. Listening to you grovel will only add to their pleasure and mark you as an attractive target for more abuse. LGBs are already their preferred victims, so donât add to it by satisfying their sadistic drive.
Clark35
@Cam: That woman is not “black” she’s bi-racial, mixed race, or a mulata.
Cam
@Clark35:
Trust me, in the 1960’s she wasn’t treated any better than any other African American. As for your choice of wording, you might want to rethink the last one.
Clark35
@Josh447: LMAO “cis” is not a slur or derogatory, nobody that is not Trans takes actual offense to it and we just laugh at it and people who use it.
Jay Joey
Sounds likes we’re upset and offended again without all the facts. How weird. Ă°???
Kathukid
PC in the gay world is the worst. We spend more time fighting amongst ourselves than against our enemies. It’s just a movie and they haven’t seen it yet. Maybe they should hold their criticism until after the film is released.
bobmister250
@Clark35: Very true Clark.
Clark35
@Cam: @Cam: There’s nothing wrong with the terms mulato or mulata even in the United States. Outside of the United States they refer to people who are mixed race as the person is not white, or black; but coloured.
Mark Angstman
Don’t worry sweetheart. Even bad publicity is good publicity.
Thomas Hammond
Everything in the gay community is whitewash this movie and look at the logo that the network you’re telling me that book buffy the vampire is a gay TV show or I’m pregnant and I’m 16 in the gay show let’s look at the facts other reason this movie is going to be in the theaters is because mainstream America does not want to see the real truth look HBO always been the only network that shows the real truth about the gay community example Queer as Folk the l word and normal heart
SeeingAll
Sure ain’t no fat guys in this movie (going by the trailer).
Bobb B Bbaay
This is why whenever I see a civil rights movie all I hear about is Bayard Rustin and the African American communities’ eternal praise for the LGBT supporters who marched along side them, riiiiiight? Exactly. That doesn’t happen, and not just because of the ever present animus in black communities against LGBT. Unless you go looking for it specifically you would barely find mention of it. But those movies are never called “black washed”, are they? It is a ridiculous double standard, made even more pathetic by the fact that LGBT spans all races and cultures. Don’t let these PC hustlers infect our community the way they have others. Race baiters can only co opt an issue if you pay attention to their caterwauling. Just go pay to see the movie and find out about the message it was intended to promote, not what the internet rage machine has hijacked it for.
jayj150
@Avery Alvarez: You are contradicting yourself. You say trans activists are trying to portray this as a “black transgender event with drag queens and lesbians doing all the fighting”. Newsflash: the only thing that transactivists hate more than “privileged white cis gay men” is drag queens and butch lesbians. They are the most usual object of their vitrol(butch lesbians in particular) because they are the real gender-benders and a constant reminder of the non-sense of transgenderism. I agree, they DO want to erase the contribution of white gay men, but not in benefit of drag queens and lesbians, but of “transwomen of color” whom they DON’T CONSIDER DRAG QUEENS. Specifically, they’re mad about the supposed exclusion of Rivera and Johnson, even though Rivera wasn’t even there and Johnson NEVER identified as a woman, and only posthumously has had her persona been appropriated by transactivism.
john.k
@Clark35: I only know two trans people, one male to female and one female to male. Neither of them are like that. Both seem to me to be well adjusted people who just get on with life.
But I know there are some who are as you describe. There was recently a fuss over drag queens being banned from the Glasgow Pride parade – reportedly at the insistence of trans activists who somehow saw drag queens as demeaning them. I read some of the blogs that ensued and encountered a whole new (to me) language – “non-gender conforming”, “cis drag queens”, “cis-gender”, “non-binary” and others I can’t remember. I had thought myself reasonably well educated and to have a reasonable vocabulary but these were all new to me and I still have only the vaguest idea what they mean.
Tobi
@Clark35: You’d probably act a bit cross if someone lopped your dick off and you still looked like a docker in drag. đ
Billy Budd
Is there gay sex in the movie? I’ll only watch it if there is at least one gay sex scene.
Roger Honeycutt
I will see it
Amaurys Arias
Miss Major is a Black trans woman, activist and elder. Sheâ??s a former sex worker and community leader, she survived being incarcerated and participated in the Stonewall Riots. Sheâ??s a legend and has helped countless trans women of color over the last 40 years. In this article she talks about the whitewashing of STONEWALL and remembers this:
The best thing I can remember about that night is that when the girls decided, â??no, we ainâ??t doing this,â? some of the girls got out of the paddy wagon and came back, the police got so scared they backed into the club and locked the doors! I mean, if nothing else,that was the funniest thing to have in your mind watching it happen. And meanwhile across the street there are all these cute little white boys cheering us on, and saying â??donâ??t hurt the girls!â? and all this blah blah. They werenâ??t in the fight.
READ THE REST:
http://www.autostraddle.com/how-dare-they-do-this-again-miss-major-on-the-stonewall-movie-301957/
Roger Honeycutt
Sometimes Hollywood has to change things for plot or marketability its not insult just be glad the story is finally being told. There are several good documentaries about stone wall showing who was involved
Aranos
@Clark35: I totally agree!
Sad, but the result of all that hatred spewed by those self-defined “activists” will be that noone will ever want to make another movie about LGBT history.
Aranos
@Tobi: LOL, nails it!
jayj150
@Bobb B Bbaay: I’m with you, but it’s not black people pushing this, it’s transactivists(mostly the white, homophobic, Social Justice Warrior type) for their own benefit. They don’t care about people of color any more than they care about gay and lesbian people; they’re using ‘whitewashing’ as code for ‘not trans enough’.
Loyd Hawkins
To those who are calling for a boycott, go to the website of Stonewall Veterans Association, an organization made up of people who were actually at Stonewall, who still meet once a month. They are a diverse group racially and gender wise. They are NOT participating in any boycott of the film because they consulted on it to help with the historical accuracy, and they will reserve judgment until they actually see the movie. Go to their website and educate yourself about Stonewall from some of the people who were actuallly there.
Finrod
@Roger Honeycutt: “Sometimes Hollywood has to change things for plot or marketability its not insult just be glad the story is finally being told.”
A lie is worse than nothing.
But I see that white cisgender men are circling the wagons. It’s like we have our own Men’s Rights Activist chapter in the gay community. How heartwarming.
Robert Rupp
What’s sad is people that continue to divide the “gay ” community ..whats next is it the left handed drag queens with green eyes were not represented Or how bout those under 4 10.. Get out , see the similarities , stop looking for those that look just like you. Sad!
Robert Rupp
No. It’s close minded people…lIke those that pass judgement. Before they have facts. Thought most of those were republicans But guess we have some too
Billy Budd
I like to see white people almost as much as black people. Who cares.
aliengod
@Tobi: LOL! That was hilarious. I agree.
Hussain-TheCanadian
If we don’t support this movie, who else will?
Darcy John Hallihan
Im so sick of how offended everyone gets over everything.
SeeingAll
@Tobi: That WOULD make you fume, alright. (The emotional ups-and-downs further aggravated by all the hormones and flashes and the like..)
SeeingAll
@Amaurys Arias: Can we trust a bunch with an agenda on a site called Autostraddle ?
Colorful Kent
If he would come out period, I’m sure that would change the conversation.
Dieter Michaels
This movie is NOT whitewashed! and neither is my next movie which is called “The Rosa Parks story”, in which Tom Cruise will play the lead role of a guy who refused to change seats on a bus and forever changed history……
Will Moor
@Amaurys Arias: except that she lied and said no white gay men were present despite the photographic and recorded evidence to the contrary and she made it sound like a whole lot more trans women were present than really were. The presence of transwomen was important and significant and not to be denied, but it wasn’t this huge gang of all Transwomen of color and nobody else like she implies. There were never quite *that* many trans women OR drag queens present at Stonewall at any given time anyway. She and YOU are trying to steal the experience of the young gay homeless street youth that made up a huge bulk of the rioters on those days and its pretty awful of you. Why is it so important to you to believe that white people had no significant role whatsoever with Stonewall? I would love an answer. I’ve seen your posts about this at other news sites too.
@SeeingAll: it can’t be trusted because Miss Major’s claims don’t match up with the photographic evidence or what written down records from that time (newspaper articles) are available. She claims that she saw no white faces except some across the street screaming, and yet we have this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/42/Stonewall_riots.jpg and this: http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7514/stonewalle.jpg I see a lot of cis gay men, plenty of white face mixed in there. I see physical engagement with the police.
She claims that ALL she saw where the brown and black faces of her Trans friends and she makes it sound like it was this huge gang of Trans women when A) back then they would have called themselves drag queens and transvestites, as the term “transgender” wasn’t even coined yet and then we have this quote from Sylvia Rivera:
“Actually, it was the first time that I had been to the frigginâ Stonewall. The Stonewall wasnât a bar for drag queens. Everybody keeps saying it was. The drag queen spot was the Washington Square Bar, at Third Street and Broadway. This is where I get into arguments with people. They say, âOh, no, it was a drag queen bar, it was a black bar.â No, Washington Square Bar was the drag queen bar.
If you were a drag queen, you could get into the Stonewall if they knew you. And only a certain number of drag queens were allowed into the Stonewall at that time. I wasnât in full drag that night anyway. I was dressed very pleasantly. When I dressed up, I always tried to pretend that I was a white woman. I always like to say that, but really Iâm Puerto Rican and Venezuelan.” â Sylvia Rivera, Making Gay History: The Half-Century Fight for Lesbian and Gay Equal Rights, 2002
So yes, drag queens and trans women were there, but it wasn’t this massive horde like some people are trying to feed us and shock of shocks, SOME of them were white Trans women, like Jane County.
This whole concept that the movie is “white washing history” because its told from the point of view from a young white street kid is STUPID. A HUGE BULK of the participants who were MAJOR players were young white homeless gay street hustlers. This is just a bleeping fact. All the outrage and accusations of white washing are ridiculous because this is an authentic point of view to use. Its perfectly valid.
Cagnazzo82
@Avery Alvarez: It’s ironic seeing a gay person using that idiotic 4chan term ‘social justice warrior’.
I have never heard anyone use that term who isn’t a thorough bigot, so it’s ironic seeing it tossed around on this board of all places.
Earth to Avery: Stonewall literally *was* a social justice riot. It’s a movie, literally, about social justice warriors rioting for their rights.
Get a clue. And stop tossing around terms that have lost all meaning at this point.
SeeingAll
@Will Moor: Thanks for the info.
Lvng1Tor
SO…why doesn’t the trailer represent that after all the pre controversy the film has received? You’d think that the director would have said…”let’s put their concerns to rest and reassure them that the film pays homage not the entire stonewall movement, not just the white cis gay male character” but it doesn’t…plus we who are a bit older are getting told…’you don’t know stonewall, but a 24yr old who doesn’t have a box office name does!”
I’m all for a story within a story but don’t represent it as the story of the stonewall revolution and give us only a whitewashed vision of a more easy to sell product in the trailer…of course there is going to be outrage! If it doesn’t represent the film why present it to us?
Giancarlo85
The historical revisionism on here to erase trans people is not surprising. Some gay men really hate trans people… even more than straight people do. It doesn’t surprise me.
This film is just another piece of historical revisionism much like that movie “Pride”. Watered down for an American audience, and revised to fit into a certain transphobic agenda. “Pride” was watered down extensively erasing much of the real leftist tendencies in showing the entire movement is left wing (this is why gay conservatives are contradictory).
Thanks Hollywood for more bullshit. Have anymore you want to serve up?
@aliengod: And then you have this crazy dumb fuck who just makes fun of people he thinks shouldn’t be part of the community. If it was up to him, feminine gay men wouldn’t even exist and we would all have to conform.
Chris
@Dieter Michaels: Too late for that. Tom Cruise already saved the world in the Last Samurai.
SeeingAll
@Dieter Michaels: Well….like with “Stonewall”…if the news photos from the time showed a Tom Cruise type doing that on the bus, I’d say go ahead and film it that way.
philatonian
OMG if someone else says “cisgender,” “asexual” or “LGBTQQIA” I’m gonna lose it. If you want to see a really good – and somewhat accurate account of the incident – there’s a great movie called Stonewall. It’s not this one. This one is a movie piggybacking on the gay marriage movement and the emerging trans-rights one. And you know what, that’s a good thing. Because this movie is made for a mainstream audience. Call them “cisgender” all you want, movies like this are changing the way the mainstream views those of us who – like it or not – aren’t “normal.” If we keep over-intellectualizing everything that doesn’t fall into our manufactured acronyms, every single person on earth is going to be a unique sexual preference. And you know what, that’s exactly what we ****ing are. 6 billion individual sexual animals born into completely unnatural societies that pigeon hole us into roles and ideals. Some of us like legs, some like blondes. Some like dicks and some like vaginas. And some like embracing completely societal constructs like clothing and gender identities. At the end of the day, shouldn’t we all just be saying, “Who gives a ****?” Sexual orientations are gender identities are meaningless beyond the realm of science. If you really want to tout your knowledge of the gay rights movement, look at what trailblazers were saying in the 60s and 70s.
Avery Alvarez
@Cagnazzo82: Ahh, did I hurt you feelings, you little baby?
I don’t care who you heard throw it around or how you perceive it. Your previous comments already told me what to think of your opinions.
Earth to loser nobody on the internet: There is a HUGE, NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE between social justice and social REVENGE. There is no fine line. It is a huge, definite line.
Your little group of SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIORS are out for revenge. You don’t care about justice.
Get a clue before telling people what to say. I will continue to say it.
Clark35
@Amaurys Arias: Who cares?
Clark35
@Tobi: LMAO!!! Too funny!
ChickenLady
OH NO SHE BETTER DON’T!!!!!
greyhound1954
@Dieter Michaels: I loved you on SNL, especially the part where you go, “And now on Sprockets, this is the part where we dance.”
lwoody75
Telling the truth is NOT about being PC. When you erase people from history what you say is they don’t matter and they add no value to history. Being a black gay man it gets old being treated like you had no value when you fight along side people for universal rights. I know the trolls will have a feel day with my comments but if you need to hide behind a computer and say nasty things go for it. I would expect nothing less.
Will Moor
@SeeingAll: You’re welcome. All of this outrage before the movie is released over the very first teaser trailer is f****ing insane. I just can’t believe this outraged claim of revisionism and white washing. Some of the comments I have read are just furious that they chose a good looking white actor to play this role. Yet one of the people who was supposedly arrested the very first night of the riots, Williamson Henderson was pretty damned good looking at the time.
What is purported to be his stonewall mugshot:
http://www.stonewallvets.org/images/Williamson/NYPD-mugshot_1969_Stonewall.jpg
and one of his model head shots: http://www.stonewallvets.org/images/Williamson/Williamson_Henderson_Model-pic-2.jpg
He wasn’t a bad looking guy and he was white for God’s sake. And his claims of being there are every bit as valid as anyone else’s.
Anyway I am going to see the film. I am looking forward to it.
Will Moor
@lwoody75: I am against anyone claiming that no people of color or trans women were there. They certainly were there. That is not something that I dispute at all. What I DO dispute is the need of certain people to turn around and claim that A) this film is revisionist and white washing because it depicts a white main character and B) that white people played no role at all.
I am 100% with you that LGBT people of color have fought alongside white LGBT people. The history of Stonewall belongs to ALL LGBT people. I want us all to KEEP working together and not be divided over things like this. We weaken ourselves when we cannibalize ourselves over things like this. We shouldn’t be fighting among ourselves we should be fighting our real enemies. So I don’t see anything wrong with your words. But you can’t look at this Stonewall movie and claim that anybody has been erased from history because that isn’t the case. They have said that people like Marsha P. Johnson are depicted in the film. The actor has posted pictures proving it. This whole goofy uproar is counter productive. We have real enemies and gay movie makers creating a loving tribute to Stonewall are not among them.
Aromaeus
@Bobb B Bbaay:Did you pull a muscle making that reach?
Demetrius Greene
Ok guys. The straight white man has spoken so calm down and be quite…yeah right
Jacob23
“Hardly a day goes by lately without a member of the Stonewall team attempting damage control…”
There is no damage control because there is no damage. This is some butthurt whining by Tumblr SJWs. In a week, they’ll be on to their next outrage. And the entire premise of the whine-fest is false. Stonewall was NOT a predominantly non-white drag queen riot. If there’s must be a protest over “representation,” it should be that cross-dressers are over-represented in the movie.
Here’s the conclusion of David Carter, author of the exhaustively researched, 900-page book “Stonewall.” Carter spent years researching every aspect of the riot. He spoke with every living witness he could find, reviewed all media coverage of the event, reviewed public records and got access to private papers and archives. Here’s what he had to say:
“All available evidence leads us to conclude that . . . if we wish to name the group most responsible for the success of the riots, it is the young, homeless homosexuals, and, contrary to the usual characterizations of those on the rebellionâs front lines, most were Caucasian; few were Latino; almost none were transvestites or transsexuals; most were effeminate; and a fair number came from middle-class families.”
So this movie, which focuses on a white youth who either ran away from home or was thrown out of his home, is pretty much spot on. The boycotters demand a false story to satisfy their [email protected]@list, transgender ideology. Here’s what Carter had to say about cross-dressers:
“It is remarkableâand no doubt inevitable given human psychologyâthat in the popular imagination the number of transvestites at the riots is always exaggerated. Readers will note that in the McDarrah photos of the riots there is one transgendered person and none of the persons I interviewed, some of whom knew her, ever saw her actively involved in the riots. (Note that the McDarrah photographs, which do feature the street youths, were taken late on Saturday night during one of the lulls in rioting, when nothing in particular was happening. (Truscott-Carter interview.) The Ambrosini photo does not show a single transvestite. Craig Rodwell told researcher Michael Scherker that âone of the myths about Stonewall is it was all drag queens. I mean, drag queens are part of what went on. Certainly one of the most courageous, but there were maybe twelve drag queens⌠in thousands of people.â
The total number of drag queens was from between 5 and 12, out of a cumulative crowd of several thousand. They absolutely did their part and showed bravery, but they were a small part of the event. Marsha Johnson, a mentally ill homeless transvestite, was there. But Johnson did not “throw the first brick.” There was no “first brick” moment. And lots of different subgroups, from the homeless kids to adult middle class gays to a butch white lesbian to straight Black radicals to a white, straight male folk singer – all played a part. If anything, this movie probably will exaggerate the role of Johnson and falsely present him as a saint, when in fact he was schizophrenic, a generous person part of the time but violent and dangerous at other times.
Jacob23
@Giancarlo85: You are such a moron. I can barely understand what you are trying to say. Your writing is borderline incoherent. In any event, Pride was released primarily for British audiences, and secondarily for global audiences. It was not altered for American audiences. I’ve watched interviews with the real people – gay activists and miners – who were depicted in Pride. They love the film and have attested to its accuracy. All of the characters, save one, were real people and these folks were the filmmakers primary sources for the story. You don’t give a sh*t about those miners, GLSM, or their fight any more than you give a sh*t about the real people who are at Stonewall. All you care about is that your ideological fantasies are validated by the outside world, even if that means warping and distorting these people’s histories. But the world outside your head, which is called reality, just refuses to go along.
Warren Vissers
so a movie wanting to make money appeals to mainstream audience … shocking
Ty Halen
Maybe I’m mistaken but he doesn’t look like a transgender, black drag queen. Dunno, maybe I just don’t see the resemblance.
Alex Banx
did people really expect him to be against the only movie he’ll ever star in? c’mon people. c’mon.
Sluggo2007
I am so sick and tired of blacks bitching about everything. You are 13% of the total population of this country. You don’t need to be and SHOULDN’T BE part of every single thing. Make your own movies with your own twisted point of view and STFU!!!!
Chris
Midwestern all-American corn-fed kid gets an education when he comes to the big Apple; now THAT’s a story I’ve never seen on film. ….. Oh yeah, and the stills look like they’re from a remake of the movie Hair. ….. I can hardly wait.
Giancarlo85
@Jacob23: You are the real idiot. You type a lot but you don’t have any real proof. The ideological leanings in Pride were glossed over. One of the main protagonists was actually a member of the communist party. But you won’t recognize that because you are a right uneducated moron who doesn’t know how to write a coherent sentence. And go fuck yourself! I care more about the people in Stonewall and Pride than a revisionist idiot like you. You don’t care about people. You only care about appeasing to straight white men. Your entire existence revolves around shame and conforming to antiquated societal standards.
If you knew anything about Stonewall, you would know what you say is a load of bullshit. I am sure if you were around at that time, you would have sided with the police. You are nothing more than a revisionist clown and you distort reality so you can feel better about yourself. You really don’t know a damn thing.
Giancarlo85
@Giancarlo85: *right wing uneducated moron – a dime in a dozen.
Let me add one thing, people like you Jacob are keyboard warriors. In real life you really don’t do shit to help anyone. And you are better off keeping your mouth shut. You would cause far more damage. People like you only live to serve others, as you strive to live by societal standards. The people in the actual Stonewall uprising weren’t conforming like you.
Chap Books
omg I can’t wait to see Roland Emmerich’s version of the march on Selma from the point of view of a character played by Taylor Lautner! I’ll finally be able to relate to the civil rights struggle.
Cam
Once again, the Trans activists saw an opportunity to attack gays, lesbians, and bisexuals and they took it. The funny thing is, as soon as it was pointed out that the person who threw the first punch was a black lesbian drag king, they suddenly go silent.
The Trans activists hate drag, and continually attack gays lesbians and bisexuals. It is an easy attack for them to scream “White Wash!”. But what they are really trying to do is steal away the reality that the brave lesbian drag king started throwing the first punches and incited the crowd to do the same.
They want to erase her from history and hide what she did. They spend most of their time on their sites if you go there attacking LGB’s and no time attacking right wing bigots. The true hero if Stonewall is everything they hate. A lesbian and somebody who did drag.
Tackle
@Jacob23:Once again you quote David Carter. You must seem to believe he’s 100pecent accurate, and all knowing. That things that comes from his mouth, or what he writes is infallible, like it’s coming from the mouth of god. What makes his account in his book, more believable and trustworthy than, Storme DeLarveri, or Miss Major, who were both there? I guess because he’s not trans, or lesbian. Since transphobia & [email protected] is so prevalent in the gay community, it wouldn’t surprise me as to why he chooses to elevate gay White men, and downplay others…
According to you, he says that ( let me shorten this) Caucasians were the most responsible group for the success of the riots. The Caucasians that you are so pround to speak of, most did not show up until the next day when word spread about the riots, and the crowd reached over 1000. Keep in mind, that Stonewall in 1969 was was evenly, Black, White & Hispanic. According to witnesses who were there, on THAT particular evening/night: it was mostly Black & Hispanic. Regardless of who was there that night, the true heroes who played the pivotal role, and got the ball rolling and who made life easier for us LGBTQ people today, are the ones (LTG)who were inside the Inn that night, and who decided to fight back.
Tackle
@Billy Budd: Yes but do you care about the damn truth??
Tobi
@Tackle: … and in other news from your la-la-land, a black, one-legged, transgender lesbian was the first person to hop on the moon. *sigh*
Tackle
@Sluggo2007: Why don’t you STFU you stupid ass! This is just as much a gender/name/self identifying issue, as it is about race. Many Trans people feel like they are being marginalized, once again, and their contributions to the LGBTQ community, not acknowledged. ( Well understood.) But your ignorance, not so much.
Tackle
@Tobi: FUCK YEAH! And kicked the one-legged,white transgendered lesbian off. *poof*
Giancarlo85
@Tackle: White gay men like Jacob won’t acknowledge that. He won’t even acknowledge LGBTQQI people of racial and ethnic minorities. It is funny how some white gay men are so transphobic and Ra.c.i.st.
meghanada
@Tackle: “he Caucasians that you are so pround to speak of, most did not show up until the next day when word spread about the riots… According to witnesses who were there, on THAT particular evening/night: it was mostly Black & Hispanic.”
You’re making that up. All material evidence we have of the protests, ie, the photographs of the nights, supports Carter’s contention – the people seen fleeing the police, throwing rocks, etc, were young and overwhelmingly white males, dressed in so-called gender-conformist ways. As far as I know, cameras are not political – they don’t have a bias, they don’t erase the dear transwomen of color, or put the white cis gay men you’re so anxious to dismiss in places they were not in. That they lend independent support for a version of things you didn’t know before should give you pause to think and reevaluate your previous stances – if you were approaching this debate from an objective, unemotional place.
And you’ve got to stop throwing the damn “racism/transphobia” all the time somebody makes an observation or reaches a conclusion on a particular situation that doesn’t flatter your PC vanity. For all the whining about racism/transphobia, there’s been more effort to erase white gay men from the riots than anybody else, and you’re proof of that. You’re also proof that “racism/transphobia” is nowhere as big a problem in the gay community as the will of some in our midst to find offense where there’s none – to denigrate anyone, including for scholarly work, whenever they pose an obstacle for PC attempts to use history as a therapeutic narrative of self-validation.
Carter didn’t write his account of Stonewall sitting his butt at home and letting his imagination fly free – he spoke with hundreds of people who were present at the riots, more than you ever will, and submitted his conclusions to the judgment of fellow historians, editors and the public. He’s an established reference on the subject of Stonewall, cited even by people with a take more similar to yours. Being frustrated by his findings gives nobody license to defame him as a bigot. You need to either accept the results of methodical scholarship, or formulate your disagreements in a more objective way – without defaming scholars for producing work that contradicts your favored politics, in typical Stalinist fashion. Anything else is the annoying tantrum of a self-indulgent, immature baby who, for all the whining about oppression and marginalization, is used to always have his way.
Tobi
@Will Moor: “I am 100% with you that LGBT people of color have fought alongside white LGBT people.” You are kidding, right?
Davey Benn
Jeremy and many others put their heart and soul into this movie. Give it a chance and shut to hell up!!
animaux
@Lvng1Tor: Emmerich is currently busy filming Independence Day 2. He has no time for this s…
Will Moor
@Tobi: Uh no I am not kidding… you really think ONLY white people have been a part of the LGBT rights movement? Or are you being sarcastic about my choice of words? They were in direct response to the person I was addressing based on his own choice of words. Either way, I am not kidding.
Will Moor
@Tackle: While I sympathize with your passion for sticking up for our Trans siblings, when it comes to the claims of Miss Major at least, I must consider her words…questionable. She has already demonstrated that she doesn’t have the best relationship with the facts concerning her stated recollections of Stonewall.
aubrey haltom
@meghanada: Carter’s book is a valuable resource in looking back at Stonewall.
And he didn’t just interview people. He included written accounts from the days and week of the riots to buttress his argument.
All of these written accounts support Carter’s contention. If there is a singular demographic that could be highlighted for partaking in the riots – it’s the ‘fems’. Carter, and numerous writers who were at Stonewall from Friday night through the following Wednesday (the time span for the riots) all spoke of the ‘nellies’, the ‘queens’ (not drag queens, but those that are more ‘feminine’ in manner.)
Eyewitness accounts describe a “butch dyke” as being one of the first who actually started the melee. Police were trying to get her into the paddy wagon. She resisted, called out to the gathered crowd already yelling at the police, and then things started to get rough.
Craig Rodwell (Harvey Milk’s former lover in 61, 62; and the founder of Oscar Wilde bookstore in nyc) was described in several accounts as shouting out “gay power” at one point during this interaction with the dyke and police – at which time people start throwing things at the police.
It’s also interesting to read Carter’s account because he places it within the context of the time. It was an election year. (Mayoral election). The police had been raiding the gay joints for the month of June – and people were getting angry.
There’s also some interesting info on who was arrested. 13 people were arrested initially at Stonewall – almost all of them were Stonewall staff. Police practice at the time was to arrest any male wearing female clothing (it was against ny law for a man to wear women’s clothing). Police took 5 people into custody that we would consider ‘drag queens’ now. None of them were booked.
It’s a fascinating read to realize how far we’ve come. And I don’t understand the meme that seems to have run rampant throughout the lgbt community. One trans activist I’ve followed even posted a comment on one site that “trans women were the only ones at Stonewall. It was a trans riot”. Sad how people allow their political allegiances to overrun the facts on the ground.
Because there is enough in Carter’s book to bolster every demographic in the lgbt community. We are everywhere. And a few thousand were there that first night in June ’69.
Cam
@Giancarlo85:
It’s funny how the actual person that witnesses say started the riot was a black lesbian who was at the Stonewall that night performing as a drag king.
Don’t try to make this a white washing issue, the Trans activists want to erase her existence so they can claim it was a Trans person who did it. They have attacked drag over the last few years, even going so far as to kick all drag performers out of the alternate Pride in Scotland, and here they are trying to erase StormĂŠ DeLarverie, the black lesbian Drag King, from history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm%C3%A9_DeLarverie
Far from being transphobic, I could easily state that the Trans Activists hate Lesbians, Gays, and Bisexuals so much, not to mention people who do drag they they are trying to rewrite history to erase StormĂŠ DeLarverie from it with their lies.
Peter McKinney
Good for him. It’s important to stand up to hate, ignorance and bigotry even when it’s coming from the trans community.
tonythompson
@David Jarrett:
::toodles in. Sees that someone is using the phrase “PC” disparagingly with no regard to what is being discussed. Remembers policy of reminding people what PC actually means. Rewrites insensitive comment to reflect this.
“I want to see the film. To hell with the
PCtreating marginalized people with respectbullshit regarding the trailer and those who have NEVER seen the film. Nothing is perfect.”There. Fixed that for you. Now we can see that you oppose efforts to treat marginalized people with decency. Thanks for sharing your bigoted opinions with the world.
tsginamarieva
@Clark35: Is this a joke?
richard s
@FancyUsername: very good analysis!! Most people on here wont understand what you said or wont want to understand. They just want something to complain about.
richard s
@Clark35: actually, “cis” is now being used as a derogatory word…especially when “white” is added. This is happening more and more. Much racism in our community as well
tsginamarieva
Instead of getting our literal and figurative panties in a bunch over a movie almost none of us have seen, why don’t we place our umbrage back in our fanny packs and wait to see what we’re actually talking about. Even if every act and/or actor in the real Stonewall uprising isn’t presented in the movie, I would hope it conveys three key messages. First, I hope it demonstrates what life was like for LGBT Americans before Stonewall (That, for example, it was illegal to be gay in every state but Illinois, at the time.) LGBT Americans were ostracized from the American dream. It was a terrifying, hellish existence.
Second, I hope the movie shows how courageous those first protesters were, how they put their lives and their futures on the line to stand up to a criminally inequitous status quo. Lastly, I hope the movie movingly shows how our community climbed off of its knees at Stonewall and continued to fight through the AIDS epidemic, “deathblow” court decisions like Bowers v. Hardwicke and countless other cultural obstacles to reach full, real marriage equity for all.
Gina Conners
Professor Fate
Looking forward to this film!
Once again, we have Political Correctness running amok with these protesters.
richard s
@Professor Fate: the PC protesters are a small but very very vocal angry group. I’m looking forward to seeing the movie.
richard s
@tsginamarieva: thank you Gina…very good comments!!
Cam
@tsginamarieva:
Gina, Such a nice common sense post. Thank you.
Cam
@tonythompson: said….
“@David Jarrett:…….
âI want to see the film. To hell with the PC treating marginalized people with respectbullshit regarding the trailer and those who have NEVER seen the film. Nothing is perfect.â
There. Fixed that for you. Now we can see that you oppose efforts to treat marginalized people with decency. Thanks for sharing your bigoted opinions with the world.
______________________
If you don’t like marginalized people being treated disrespectfully then why support the Trans Activists attempt to erase the Black Lesbian Drag King who started the riot from existence?
Bryguyf69
@Clark35 asked: “Exactly who cares what that twinkie says.”
====
YOU, for one, since this article clearly piqued your interest, despite the title stating that it’s about “what that twinkie says.” Me think the lady doth protest too much.
jjose712
@SeeingAll: cisgender is not going to become a word that people will use. People like things simpler, you are a male or a female, and that’s all, everybody is free to identify themselves like they want but cisgender is as ridiculous as saying natural born man.
On the other hand the outrage over the trailer of this film is ridiculous. If the film itself whitewash the story it will be different, but it’s impossible to know that from the trailer. The fact that most cast is white is not a surprise, because most people in the riots were white too
Bryguyf69
All I saw on my phone was the first line of the title, “Stonewall Star Jeremy Irvine Comes Out …” and my interest was piqued! The article didnt exactly meet my expectations.
spanprof
I smell a right wing plot–could be wrong. The Stonewall was about a group of guys who had one last refuge in the Village. They were like everyone else, but were outraged by the NYPD (modern day saints). What ensued was a pretty normal thing, the whole gay community realized that a few just regular people were in the process of being trapped. And the came by the thousands to help. The police didn’t dare enter lower Manhattan! And yes, they burned police cars and beat up police. It was the beginning. To be followed a few short years later by the assassination of Harvey Milk and Mayor Moscone in San Francisco!
Jacob23
@Tackle: I quote David Carter because his work is without question the most comprehensive and exhaustive work on this topic. There’s not even a close second. And his conclusions are based on an examination of all the historical evidence. The other accounts tend to be based on personal recollection or on conversations with a few people, and make no real effort to fact check any of the claims of the interviewees. Carter was rigorous and thorough and that’s important when people have an incentive to exaggerate or alter their own role or simply have faded memories after so many years.
Also, I cite Carter even though he comes to lots of conclusions that I don’t like. I would have loved for him to conclude that Marsha Johnson, a psychotic transvestite, wasn’t part of this event. But he provides the evidence that Johnson was there. So I go with the evidence over my personal wishes. Similarly, the homeless kids whom Carter mentions are hardly the people I would have picked to be heroes if I could have written history. Because those kids were so horribly treated by everyone, including other gays, they became angry and violent. Carter describes how they would fight each other on an almost daily basis, and they wouldn’t care about getting injured. Would I have preferred a fantasy Stonewall where all the homeless gay kids were unfailingly saintly, loving, kind and wise? Sure, but that’s not what this exhaustive research concluded, so I go with the evidence, not with my feelings or wishes. If the evidence had shown that all the rioters were genderqueer Soviet spies who trafficked drugs and killed kittens, then I would go with the evidence.
Now as for Carter’s giving top credit to the homeless gay kids, it is worth stressing that he does this only after making very clear that no one group gets credit for starting or conducting the uprising. Everyone played a part. There was no one triggering event, like the throwing of a brick. It was a gradual escalation. The quote about the homeless kids is his way of answering a longstanding question about who took the leading role and to clear up the misconception about the prevalence of transvestites. He does go out of his way to give the few transvestite participants their due credit. And he notes that the lesbian who resisted arrest, while not a crossdresser, was certainly masculine in appearance. So he is hardly phobic about gender nonconformity.
So that’s about it. I think it is sad that we have to spend so much time parsing the race and gender composition of a crowd in front of a bar 46 years ago. We should all be inspired by these people, whatever their race or gender. But dividing people and appropriating gay history and identity is what trans activists and SJWs are all about. So to prevent lies from displacing truth, we have to respond.
richard s
the silver lining here is that we’re all talking about it and hopefully learning more about the history of that powerful event. Instead of just saying that you’ll boycott something, discuss it…experience it and than talk about it.
richard s
posting comments here is soooooo frustrating because who even knows what words Queerty deems to be bad. The “moderating” of comments is a little severe here…no?
10andiep
As a black gay man, the part of this whole situation that is the most depressing isn’t a movie that further marginalizes people that are marganilzed, but the response from people in the “community”. It’s akin to going to at friend and telling them that you take issue with something they’ve done, and instead of taking it through, asking why you feel that way, they immediately go on the defensive, and accuse you of beating up on them and not being supportive. How can this kind of relationship work?
richard s
@10andiep: I think you misconstrued the reactions from the community. People are responding to the negative tone and approach that the boycotting “activists” began with. The initial attacks from the boycotters was very accusatory and angry. It also sounded very “attack the white gays” and that turned alot of people off. The pre-judgement of the movie based on a brief trailer seemed unfair. You also pre-judge in your comment when you talk about marginalizing people. You cant say if that is happening because you havent seen the movie either. You cant take the pity route.
James
I am tired of this stupid conversation.
richard s
@James: than you’re welcome to page over to the boys in underwear pictures.
dwes09
@Dieter Michaels:
The nature of art is that people can depict other than their own experience. Do you discount the value of the novelette “brokeback mountain” because it was written by a woman?
Can black people write about whites without the writing being “blackwashed?”
Your comment is foolish and pointless.
And next time a woman refers to your understanding of something as “mansplaining”, see how good that makes you feel. I get so tired of divisive and ignorant identity politics and how it destroys communication.
808Skinhead
Stop me if you think you’ve heard this one before…but watching this trailer reminded me ALLOT of the storyline from the 1995 Stonewall movie. Some scenes were almost identical to what I recal from the actual movie. Hmmmm. http://youtu.be/bop98c-Tfr4
Anyway, I see both sides of the coin. If in fact this new and current film is being whitewashed, then why see it? They maybe history fictionalized characters, but to allot kids out there, it might the first impression of gay history they get, the one impression that molds them the most in life. We as gay men owe our freedom to drag queens of color, for had it not been for their tenacity, who knows how far along we’d be today? Like it or not, it is the truth.
On the other hand. this is just a teaser trailer. TEASER being the operative word. So we don’t know how this movie will play out until someone actually sees it. To boycott it now would be prematurely pulling a the trigger.
dwes09
@10andiep:
“As a black gay man, the part of this whole situation that is the most depressing isnât a movie that further marginalizes people that are marganilzed”
Since it is a movie no one has seen yet, we can’t even say that it marginalizes anybody. This kind of criticism is best leveled after the film in question has been seen, otherwise it speaks poorly of those making the criticism.
And it is admittedly fiction, not a documentary.
Giancarlo85
@Cam: I am not for an instance discrediting her. I don’t agree with some trans activists on this subject. But what I see on this website is disgusting… particularly coming from someone like Jacob. A white gay male who has no consideration for people of racial and ethnic minorities within the community… and now he’s citing an author that has been pretty much discredited.
“Far from being transphobic, I could easily state that the Trans Activists hate Lesbians, Gays, and Bisexuals so much”
Most do not. Some are very vocal in doing so. And I see that certain gay men on here hate trans people, feminine gay men, and LGBTQQI racial/ethnic minorities. That’s what I notice.
mz.sam
Blah…blah…blah…Fudge all them elitist film haters! I and along with all those Love-Wins supporters are waiting with victorious baited breaths to see this epic film. #STONEWALLRULES!
gskorich
the oddest thing about these comments is the movie has not been released yet you are all assuming someone is being left out. the trailer is two minutes of the movie. i plan on seeing the movie now that it is getting so much attention.
Tackle
@Giancarlo85: I agree with that.
Tackle
@meghanada: No you’re making things up. You are taking one thing I wrote ( Blacks & Hispanics) being the majority there that night, and twisting it, to make a whole narrative. You may want to go back and reread what I wrote. I clearly was referring to INSIDE the Stonewall Inn that particular night. Even though the patronage during that time at Stonewall was evenly split “racially” between, Blacks, Whites & Hispanics, on that particular night it was a majority Black & Hispanic. Once they, the action moved out into the street, yes it was a majority White. NY at that time, and maybe still is a majority White. The crowed increased by 10 fold the following night to over 1000 people, which is what the cameras caught. Some points you made were valid. I admit…
Wayne_in_NYC
@Dieter Michaels: Your profile photo says NO H8 right on it, so how about practicing what you’re preaching?
Tebn
Honestly, if I am going to watch a movie (or series) I like to see attractive and masculine guys, like Jeremy Irvine. I don’t like to see ugly men or effeminate men in films o series. It’s only a preference.
Tackle
@Jacob23: Ok: I have not read his book. But since you have, does he mention the race/ethnicity of the patrons in the Stonewall Inn the particular night when it was raided?? Since according to you, he was quick to mention and point out that Caucasians were the group most responsible for the success of the riots.
And I wholeheartedly agree with the last part of what you wrote. It is sad and a shame that praise the race, gender & composition of the crowd, or even bicker about it. But David Carter adding something like that in his book doesn’t help matters. It would be great if we could be just one community. Regardless…
meghanada
@Tackle
âEven though the patronage during that time at Stonewall was evenly split âraciallyâ between, Blacks, Whites & Hispanics, on that particular night it was a majority Black & Hispanic.â
You have adduced no proof for any of that whatsoever â no links, no books, no names; for all I care, youâre making that up, from the âevenly splitâ to the âfirst dayâ thing. All you have is wishful thinking and will to self-validation. And when someone adduces actual sources on the matter, you call them transphobic and [email protected]!st.
David Carter has the most widely cited book on the subject of Stonewall, as far as I know, heâs made no mention of changing demographics of the rioters as the days passed. This is the most meaningful passage in his book about the question of the riotersâ composition:
âMy research for this history demonstrates that if we wish to name the group most responsible for the success of the riots, it is the young, homeless homosexuals, and, contrary to the usual characterizations of those on the rebellionâs front lines, most were Caucasian; few were Latino; almost none were transvestites or transsexuals; most were effeminate; and a fair number came from middle-class families.â
All you have against is call him [email protected]!st and transphobic. Again, no links, no books, no names. I mean, you do have some names â bad ones which youâve called him.
scotshot
@Tebn: This film isn’t a beauty contest. if seeing portrayals of people who aren’t glamour queens is offensive to you, stay home. You won’t be missed.
Robert Rupp
Really. You basically just just. Nothing. Just because I’m narrow minded Next you’ll be an admitted tea party Ă°???
Jacob23
@Tackle: Carpenter wasn’t “quick to mention that Caucasians were the group most responsible.” The quote I laid out in my comment above appears on page 684, in the Conclusions section. And his point was not to credit “Caucasians” but to give special honors to the group of gay homeless kids (who were not all white) who had been abandoned and rejected by everyone, gays and drag queens included. Carpenter calls them “the most despised and marginal elements” in the gay community.
Now, prior to the quote where he gives special honors to the homeless kids for fighting the hardest, here’s what he has to say:
“The question of who gets credit for starting the riots is one that deserves consideration. The question, however, contains a premise: that an individual or group of individuals can be singled out as the prime mover in a complex process that many persons collectively created. . . [T]here was a continuum of resistance ranging from silent persons who ignored the police orders to move to those who threw objects at the police. . . . [T]here was throughout the evening both a gradual buildup of anger and, correspondingly, a gradual escalation in the release of that anger. In the course of that buildup there were numerous turning points, some more critical than others.”
So he’s not bestowing all the credit on any one group. Not the homeless kids. Not “Caucasians.” Not the lesbian who resisted arrest. Not drag queens. He gives credit to each, and to other groups as well. What you come away with is the conclusion that Stonewall could not have happened without the participation of all of these people together, each making their own contribution in this complex, fast-moving confrontation with the police.
Frankly, the historically accurate version of Stonewall makes for a much better story and a much better movie than “drag queens rioted” or “middle class white gays rioted.” This was not about one group. It was a rare instance where a lot of very different people came together, from those reviled homeless kids to middle class gays with jobs to that angry lesbian who kept slipping out of the paddy wagon to Marsha Johnson to straight allies like folk singer David Van Ronk. If the movie can bring all this to the screen, then it will be both historically accurate and pretty damned good.
boyjoy
Perhaps if the film is âabout an awakening, one young manâs awakening to the reality of what it means to be âthe otherâ.â it SHOULD NOT have been called Stonewall…
richard s
Well…when you name your movie that you paid for then you can name it anything you want. đ
Giancarlo85
@Jacob23: You don’t really give two shits about anyone that took part in the Stonewall uprising, like you don’t care about LGBTQQI people today. You especially don’t care if someone is an ethnic minority and LGBTQQI. Take your self serving, hateful ass to some other site. Maybe Newsmax… they would love the hate you espouse there.
” This was not about one group. It was a rare instance where a lot of very different people came together, from those reviled homeless kids to middle class gays with jobs to that angry lesbian who kept slipping out of the paddy wagon to Marsha Johnson to straight allies like folk singer David Van Ronk. ”
You can believe this revisionist bullshit all you want, but that simply is not true. A majority of the crowd was not white. White gay men simply stood in the shadows because they were too scared and ended up piggy backing on the movement (like you have done).
blackberry finn
@erasure25: WHen “white people” make movies, they can do whatever they want with their wagons. Make your own movie and get your own wagons. WORD
richard s
@Giancarlo85: let’s stick with LGBT. I’m sorry but tacking on anymore initials is just too much. I mean…really?
Jacob23
@Giancarlo85:
“you donât care about LGBTQQI people today”
I care passionately only about the first Q. I’m very offended that you left out the J. Stop being a bigot to J people!
“A majority of the crowd was not white. White gay men simply stood in the shadows because they were too scared”
OK. Then please share your evidence. If people, including me, are saying inaccurate things about Stonewall, then correct us and provide evidence or cite sources that set out that evidence.
moldisdelicious
@Bobb B Bbaay:
you got the nerve to talk about race baiters when the biggest race baiters are usually the same white guys that seem obsessed with themselves and making white men to be the face of the entire lgbt community.
i really want to know where this idea that lgbt is only about white men fucking each other idea came from and why the gay community itself seems so obsessed with this idea.
think that this whole uproar is more of a passive aggressive response to the nauseating humdrum bs of gay white guys constantly making the gay community revolve and circle around them to the point where all of us others in the lgbt are excluded or treated like we don’t matter.
if you’re going to make it all about gay white men, then don’t call it the lgbt community or claim you’re representing it. it’s simple. just call it gay white men then.
Sluggo2007
@Tackle: Oh, boo hoo! Did I strike a nerve? Tough shit!
Cam
@moldisdelicious:
Nice try, it was pointed out accurately that the Trans activists were trying to erase the actual person who started the riot, a black lesbian drag king, from history.
Suddenly they can only scream that everyone is rac,is to try to prevent people from talking.
Sorry but multiple witness back up the fact that Stormee threw the first punch. What YOU are doing is trying to erase her from history to support a feel good lie.
If we are into name calling then you easily qualify as anti-lesbian, anti-black, etc…
Giancarlo85
S@Jacob23: See you are at it again. Belittling others and insulting the accurate acronym I used. Are you really this much of an airheaded idiot in real life?
Where is your evidence? Oh that’s right. You haven’t provided any asides from a widely discredited revisionist.
Tobi
@Giancarlo85: U, that’s because it’s time to split LG and BT, decided on the left, undecided on the right. đ
moldisdelicious
@Cam:
If you read my comment which you obviously didn’t, you would know that I was not talking about the film. I was talking about the issue with the film that people are having pertaining to whitewashing being a symptom of a bigger problem that has been going on for years in the lgbt community that people are getting of the whole gay community revolving around white men and white supremacy basically. That’s what the problem is.
This blog is a perfect example of that problem. Quite sure that people are tired of it.
Cam
@moldisdelicious:
No, what you are NOW doing is bactracking because I pointed out that the Trans Activists is trying to negate the existence of the black lesbian who threw the first punch. That isn’t white washing, that is rewriting history for their own agenda.
But nice try.
Keith Brooks-Bekkestrøm
I think I’m done with this page. I’ve been patient with articles and op-eds that I have had to dismiss or hide, but the “angry activists” jibe was enough for me to finally realize that you are catering to a white, capitalist, heteronormative agenda. I understand the need to be objective, but not at the cost of exaggerating the legitimate concerns of a community within the LGBT sphere that continues to be marginalized.
Avery Alvarez
@moldisdelicious: There is no white washing. You haven’t seen the film yet.
You’ve got a chip on your shoulder, and you’re trying to blackwash this film, in addition to transgenders who are trying to transwash it.
White gay men have played a part in obtaining rights for AAAALLLLLLL LGBT, not just the white ones.
Everybody has played a part. And that’s what most people hope this movie shows. A group effort by everyone in the community.
But you and yours cant’ stand that. You and others want this to be your own personal vehicle for your own personal validation, and you’re aiming to rewrite history to do it. It’s not even that a white, young gay men is featured in the advertising. You don’t want him there at all!
” really want to know where this idea that lgbt is only about white men fucking each other idea came fromĂ
it came from you, and your obsession with white gay men. No one else has suggested it but you, because it fits your victimhood narrative.
You’re the one who wants to exclude people, because you’ve got a [email protected] chip on your shoulder.
“if youâre going to make it all about gay white men, then donât call it the lgbt community”
you have to be a blind ideologue to say its all about white gay men. The trailer didnèt show that,and you havenèt seen the movie. You making assumption because it fits into your victimhood narrative.
Stop acting like a little victim and seeking pity. Nobody has time for that when there are real people in the real world suffering with real problems besides “waahhhh, why am I not the grand star of a hollywood movie”
richard s
@Avery Alvarez: good points. I find that its easier for the gay black community to blame others before trying to change the attitudes in their own community. The black community is horrible to its gay children. Playing the victim is easy and a vicious cycle.
Greg Torre
I can’t wait to see this film.
moldisdelicious
@Cam:
You clearly didn’t read what I said.
I am not talking about the film. I’m talking about the big problem that people are tired of and they’re obviously sick of the gay community revolving around white men as if they’re the only ones in the gay community.
The film itself is shown through the eyes of a young white male as the lead role. Let be honest. Almost 90% of the time whether it is porn, the news, entertainment and etc concerning homosexuality, white guys are almost put to the very front. It’s gotten so bad that people tend to think whenever the image of a gay person or gay couple, that see white men. As someone within the lgbt community, I think that the organizations and members have done a horrible representing us as a whole. It cuts deep. After awhile, anything that comes out that is gay related is tend to be scrutized by its own population due to wide scale lack of representation from gay rights organizations to media outlets like queerty.
The issue is not going to go away after the movie drops unless folks address it openly and start seeing the real problem.
dtpm
BOYCOTT THAT CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!